The best training books on the market

[Zenos]

Ok in my opinion the best training books on the market are:

The Iron Man Barbell Course No.1 by Peary Rader

The Rader Master Bodybuilding and Weight Gaining System by Peary Rader

Super Squats by Randell J.Strossen

These three stess the use of 20 rep squat routines


the next book is also one I suggest

Thye Complete Keys to Progress by John McCallum

[Zenos]

Your welcome ..

[Nellerin]

Honestly most books and magazines are bad or useless or a waste of money. Watch videos on YouTube from TMW, Flexforall2 and CampbellFitness and you will know how to train without any issues.

[Zenos]

Honestly most books and magazines are bad or useless or a waste of money. Watch videos on YouTube from TMW, Flexforall2 and CampbellFitness and you will know how to train without any issues.

:yawn: i'd not have mentioned those books if the info in them didn't work! Most books printed after 1959 are junk,you just have to know where to look to find the good ones!

[TigerBoy]

Honestly most books and magazines are bad or useless or a waste of money. Watch videos on YouTube from TMW, Flexforall2 and CampbellFitness and you will know how to train without any issues.

Yep, don't see the point in giving these guys money when there's plenty of knowledge and well established programs out there for free. My gym gives out a variety of programs via downloads and leaflets, and that doesn't include personalised programs the trainers can work out for you.

Most books printed after 1959 are junk
It doesn't make your suggestions seem credible if you can casually dismiss the past 50 years of sports science and biological research out of hand.

[Zenos]

Yep, don't see the point in giving these guys money when there's plenty of knowledge and well established programs out there for free. My gym gives out a variety of programs via downloads and leaflets, and that doesn't include personalised programs the trainers can work out for you.


It doesn't make your suggestions seem credible if you can casually dismiss the past 50 years of sports science and biological research out of hand.

With most of the books out now a days the routines look more like routines for a roid user.Plus alot of the info out there now is actually better suited for a person using steriods.

Example the book published by Ironman I believe the name of it is called Natural Bodybuilding. It starts a beginner off with a program the pros would be proud of a split routine based on bodypart training methods of pros.


I'm not saying there are not good books out there that give it too you straight,because there are but most of the ones I have read that do give it too you straight do not fill their pages up with lots of lots of scientific claims if any.

I'm not saying that there is no effective science at all when it comes to bodubuilding it's just that a lot of the findings are just theories and that next months research is just gonna disprove it because someone has a vested interest in promoting their latest theory.Not everything that goes on with research when it's related to anything dealing with bodybuilding is on the up and up.People stand to make or lose a lot of cash based on this are that study.

And because of that fact I am super leery of "so-called" research coming out of labs and universtities that say such and such about this training theory,or that training theory or this sup or that sup.


The universities/colleges and labs where these studies and research go on at stand to get a bit of funding from the people they are carrying out these studies for,so how much of what is said in these studies is fact and how much is fiction?


the reason i say this is also backed by this:

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/study-fraud-growing-scientific-research-papers

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57357720-10391704/red-wine-researcher-dr-dipak-k-das-published-fake-data-uconn/

[Apollo.]

I think the main thing people are trying to get across here is why pay? Plenty of pros give their knowledge for free online. In my eyes if they have time to write a book they aren't training hard enough!

I personally am training as a bodybuilder and to get slightly fitter so the only people I listen to are the likes of Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman and Phil Heath I don't buy some guys book I look at the videos and information online. IMHO I think listening to the pro's is a good idea because everyone's ideas of training is different you can walk into a gym and be told 10 different ways to do the same exercise, so if you take the information from the best then adapt it to suit you you can't go wrong. Again I'm just one guy with an oppinion and I mean no offence I just dont see the point in these books

[TigerBoy]

most of the ones I have read that do give it too you straight do not fill their pages up with lots of lots of scientific claims if any
Hmm well there's your problem. If the their claims are unscientific, they are lies and fiction. If on the other hand they have real results which can be proven then they should provide such proof, and proving/disproving things in a rigorous manner is exactly what science is for.

it's just that a lot of the findings are just theories and that next months research is just gonna disprove it...
You are working on the assumption that all theories are automatically accepted as equally valid: the scientific community does not work like that. As I've tried to explain to you in another thread, new research has to go through peer review in a public forum (typically a scientific journal) in order to be taken seriously. The end result of a discussion between all interested parties is consensus and quite possibly more research to refine and answer questions raised.


Fraud in life sciences research is still minuscule
Your own article says this is an insignificant problem, so it is illogical to use this as a reason to ignore the findings of mainstream science, or the entire concept of scientific method as you seem to.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=TigerBoy;1971085]Hmm well there's your problem. If the their claims are unscientific, they are lies and fiction. If on the other hand they have real results which can be proven then they should provide such proof, and proving/disproving things in a rigorous manner is exactly what science is for.

( In that case by you're reasoning we should throw out such books and courses that has information and training methods in them that has made people stronger and more muscular such as :The Rader Master Bodybuilding and Weight Gaining System by Peary Rader, The Iron Man Barbell Couse No.1 by Peary rader,Super Squats by Randall J.Strossen, The York Barbell and Dumbell System by Bob Hoffman,The Complete Keys to Progress by John McCallum ,and Dinosaur Training by Brooks D.Kubik for example ,all because they are not packed full of charts and graphs and the latest findings and such but are instead chock full of straight from the hip no frills effective training info?


The quickest way to prove or disprove a theory when it comes to exrecise with weights is in the gym )

[TigerBoy]

( In that case by you're reasoning we should throw out such books and courses that has information and training methods in them that has made people stronger and more muscular ...
You were the one who said their books don't make claims based in science, not me.

The quickest way to prove or disprove a theory when it comes to exrecise with weights is in the gym )

That really depends on whether you apply scientific method to do so. Just because an individual follows a program and gets results, doesn't prove that he got the best results possible when compared to other programs or that other individuals would get similar results. It doesn't prove that the same individual could have had fewer injuries or made faster progress with different techniques.

What you seem to have here are individuals selling a product making them money. Without scientific research behind them, the only difference between these guys and Grandpa Simpson selling his Revitalizin' Tonic is that they put in some honest work to get buff in the first place.

Any one of these programs has potential: no one is saying they don't work, it is simply that so do loads of other programs, which you can get for free, and which may benefit from the past 50 years of scientifc progress.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=TigerBoy;1971136]You were the one who said their books don't make claims based in science, not me.



That really depends on whether you apply scientific method to do so. Just because an individual follows a program and gets results, doesn't prove that he got the best results possible when compared to other programs or that other individuals would get similar results. It doesn't prove that the same individual could have had fewer injuries or made faster progress with different techniques.

What you seem to have here are individuals selling a product making them money.


(wrong dude Peary Rader,Bob Hoffman where two of the founders of the iron Game in America(both long since passed on),

John McCallum was another pinoneer simply by keeping it truthful back in the 60's and 70's with his articles when roids where invading the sport,

Randall J.Strossen the writer of Super Squats by writing that book and releasing it relased a ground breaking book that put it straight forward with no BS the benefits of doing 20 rep squat programs.

And Brooks Kubiks book Dinosaur Training is in fact acknowledged as the most groundbreaking book of strength training in the last half of the 20th century,because it's methods are efective.

So again try to explain how these men where all just selling a product ?

My oldest brother is 40 and I see that he's right,you can't right an honest book of strength training,or how to get more muscle unless you toss in stuff of a scientific nature or people will not believe the plain truth)





Without scientific research behind them, the only difference between these guys and Grandpa Simpson selling his Revitalizin' Tonic is that they put in some honest work to get buff in the first place.



( most of these guys pioneered the methods you used,or if they ddin't they researched and used them,then wrote about them themseleves)

Any one of these programs has potential: no one is saying they don't work, it is simply that so do loads of other programs, which you can get for free, and which may benefit from the past 50 years of scientifc progress

[Zenos]

I think the main thing people are trying to get across here is why pay? Plenty of pros give their knowledge for free online. In my eyes if they have time to write a book they aren't training hard enough!

I personally am training as a bodybuilder and to get slightly fitter so the only people I listen to are the likes of Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman and Phil Heath I don't buy some guys book I look at the videos and information online. IMHO I think listening to the pro's is a good idea because everyone's ideas of training is different you can walk into a gym and be told 10 different ways to do the same exercise, so if you take the information from the best then adapt it to suit you you can't go wrong. Again I'm just one guy with an oppinion and I mean no offence I just dont see the point in these books



Dude you are not really going to go there and drag out the pro bodybuidlers are you?A probodybuidler is the last person you should get info from.

I mean come on this is guys that use enough drugs to stop the wasting disease caused by a pocket nuke going off by you.


Wait what? You won't buy a book,but you'll watch or read it online?

You can get just as much and probably much more bad info online.

[TigerBoy]

So again try to explain how these men where all just selling a product ?

The very books you keep citing, and no doubt a good deal of merchandising.

As for the laurels you give them ... "ground breaking" and "pioneer" - according to who? Sure these guy may have fans ... but so does Nickleback.

What I will say again as you seem to be missing it is I am not saying all these guys are wrong, and I'm not even saying they haven't made a contribution What I am saying is they don't have all the answers by a long way (50 years of science in some cases), answers which are available for free elsewhere these days.


"unless you toss in stuff of a scientific nature or people will not believe the plain truth)"
Truth as in provable facts, as in scientifically proven? How utterly reasonable of people not to believe unsubstantiated claims.

[Apollo.]

Dude you are not really going to go there and drag out the pro bodybuidlers are you?A probodybuidler is the last person you should get info from.

I mean come on this is guys that use enough drugs to stop the wasting disease caused by a pocket nuke going off by you.


Wait what? You won't buy a book,but you'll watch or read it online?

You can get just as much and probably much more bad info online.

Hahaha, I'm sorry but your saying Phil Heath isn't good at what he does? Look at him! I don't care what drugs he takes it still takes crazy hard work to get that physique, I don't want to take it to a level anywhere near that yet so no drugs needed but it's not all drugs that guy clearly trains hard and eats right (better than anyone else in the world at the moment, thats why he's mr Olympia and some guy writing a book is not! If I can watch any of the greats perform an exercise and tell me how it works in a video of course I'm going to take that on board more than a guy with a book. You saying a pro bodybuilder is the last person I should get info from is a bad idea is ridiculous! What if I wanted to be a pro bodybuilder? Who should I go to for advice the f*cking pope?

[Zenos]

Hahaha, I'm sorry but your saying Phil Heath isn't good at what he does? Look at him! I don't care what drugs he takes it still takes crazy hard work to get that physique, I don't want to take it to a level anywhere near that yet so no drugs needed but it's not all drugs that guy clearly trains hard and eats right (better than anyone else in the world at the moment, thats why he's mr Olympia and some guy writing a book is not! If I can watch any of the greats perform an exercise and tell me how it works in a video of course I'm going to take that on board more than a guy with a book. You saying a pro bodybuilder is the last person I should get info from is a bad idea is ridiculous! What if I wanted to be a pro bodybuilder? Who should I go to for advice the f*cking pope?

Oh sure but you forget a roid user can workout longer and harder then a none roid user because of the roids.Plus without the roids he'd be a non body because he'd not have been able to gain the mass need to be on the Mr.O stage.


So again why go to a pro? You'd be better off finding a drug free training and asking them what they do!

Plus why ruin you're helath? Als they have no symetry or proportion at all.

[Apollo.]

Again he Mr Olympia to get to that level you need drugs, the drugs aren't for me but if they are the best in the world they know what they are doing. Also Arnold was on steroids and he had one of the best physiques of all time. Symmetry? Phil has got that, There's a reason guy are getting bigger obviously the drugs are becoming more advanced but so are the methods of training. I'm sorry if I offended you but my point is books are basically pointless

[TigerBoy]

I'm sorry if I offended you but my point is books are basically pointless

Unless you stick em in a bag and lift them eh? :-D j/k

I think books have their place, even the ones I've been bitching about here keep some people interested and focussed, which can't be bad. I'd rather someone used one of Joe's books properly than sat around all fat and unhealthy.

Also steriods - I don't get why people use them the same way I don't get why they turn on God Mode in computer games, but I guess everyones in it for different things.

[Zenos]

Again he Mr Olympia to get to that level you need drugs, the drugs aren't for me but if they are the best in the world they know what they are doing. Also Arnold was on steroids and he had one of the best physiques of all time. Symmetry? Phil has got that, There's a reason guy are getting bigger obviously the drugs are becoming more advanced but so are the methods of training. I'm sorry if I offended you but my point is books are basically pointless

I disagree books are not pointless.

Taking the 20 rep squat program for example the few books I have on it has more then enough info in them as well as acurate info so have a point.

Most info you find on line on the 20 rep squat consists of when dealing with the 20 rep sqaut routine usually enough to make one small page about it. Also the info on the 20 rep squat program is spread throughout the interlink.

call me lazy but I don't want to spend several hours going through the interlink just to compile this info when I can go grab Super Squats ,or if I want to ramp it up grab The Rader Master Bodybuilding and Weight gain System and learn such techniques to include in training as the Hise shrug,or the Rebound Principle of developing Muscle and Strength,or the 1 1/2 system or even the split pause program which are covered in The Rader Master Bodybuilding and Weight gain System .

Only time i use the interlink to look up training info is if i read of something mentioned in one of my books in passing like the Henry Atkins Multi-Poundage System for example which I read about in a book written by Harry B.paschall the name of which slips my mind at the moment.

[Zenos]

Unless you stick em in a bag and lift them eh? :-D j/k

I think books have their place, even the ones I've been bitching about here keep some people interested and focussed, which can't be bad. I'd rather someone used one of Joe's books properly than sat around all fat and unhealthy.

Also steriods - I don't get why people use them the same way I don't get why they turn on God Mode in computer games, but I guess everyones in it for different things.

I have "HAD" to take steriods before and that was with antibiotics for pneumonia.I was so sick when they said steriods i was like "what ever either cure me or kill me",but in this case they where for medical purposes.

[Apollo.]

Unless you stick em in a bag and lift them eh? :-D j/k.

Hahahaha, yeah I'll give you that one! No maybe I was a bit harsh they do help people out sometimes, but to me they aren't useful. Again I'm one guy, my word isn't gospel it's an oppinion if books help you use them!

[Zenos]

Hahahaha, yeah I'll give you that one! No maybe I was a bit harsh they do help people out sometimes, but to me they aren't useful. Again I'm one guy, my word isn't gospel it's an oppinion if books help you use them!

Well atleast you're not advocating book burning:D

[TigerBoy]

I have "HAD" to take steriods before and that was with antibiotics for pneumonia.I was so sick when they said steriods i was like "what ever either cure me or kill me",but in this case they where for medical purposes.

Yeah but there are different types and doses I wouldn't stress over it, its not like you got a free ride from it. You probably got a corticosteroid (immune system) not an anabolic (bones and muscles). Your honour is intact :P

[Apollo.]

Well atleast you're not advocating book burning:D

Haha, don't worry I'm not quite that bad yet!

[Zenos]

Yeah but there are different types and doses I wouldn't stress over it, its not like you got a free ride from it. You probably got a corticosteroid (immune system) not an anabolic (bones and muscles). Your honour is intact :P

LOL true but at that point i wasn't caring long as it helped.
It's not fun having an oxygen mask on just so you can breathe.
So anyone ever making fun of a person with Asthma should be beat.

That was back in August and a sI still have a cough from it(it's getting better) some times I can'r sleep even with nyquil in me.Good thing on thsoe nights I get to watch SeaHunt and Highway Patrol some old black and white tv shows.

[Zenos]

Haha, don't worry I'm not quite that bad yet!

Thats good.:D

[Nellerin]

I have "HAD" to take steriods before and that was with antibiotics for pneumonia.I was so sick when they said steriods i was like "what ever either cure me or kill me",but in this case they where for medical purposes.

You do realize steroids in medical use are different from anabolic steroids right??

[Apollo.]

You do realize steroids in medical use are different from anabolic steroids right??

Yeah I reckon he does, Olly pointed that out above. It's very rare that anyone is prescribed anabolic steroids by their doctor

[Zenos]

You do realize steroids in medical use are different from anabolic steroids right??


the diffrence has already been mentioned:yawn: