Pro choice or Pro life.

[Heavyrain4life]

Oh god, what have I done? OK. Because this is a touchy subject, here are some ground rules. This is a debate, not a flame warzone. Please don't bring religion into this, it only makes things worse. I am not asking for personal stories. What you did is in the past, and this is not a thread for talking about your story (sorry, but I find sticking a boot up the ass works better than being polite). Any posts that involve "baby killer" or "Nazi" MUST BE REMOVED! I believe I covered everything. (Also I'm sorry if there's something about this or against this, please remove if there is.)

[PerpetualImperfexion]

ffs, I clicked the wrong button damn it. Well, I'm Pro-Choice. I definitely don't think that abortion is a good thing, but I think that it should still be a choice. Obviously I don't have to worry about getting an abortion, but in the case that I got a girl pregnant I most likely would not SUGGEST abortion, but I would support her in whatever decision she makes. I would rather have women getting abortions in clean facilities, then in the back of a dirty van parked in a dark alley. Point is, if abortions are not legal, women are still going to find way to dispose of the baby, most of them being very unsafe for herself. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one but DO NOT force your beliefs on others.

[Heavyrain4life]

Huh. 50/50 already? Not bad. I'm personally Pro choice because, until the baby is born, it is not a living being, but simply a part of a whole that has the potential to turn into a human. Also, to the person that left a neutral rep on my page, is my new sig better?

[FreeFall]

Pro-choice. Because no one has the right to tell a person to carry and birth a child against their will, just because they feel to do otherwise is wrong. The blood is mine, the uterus is mine, the months are mine, if you want a say in what happens in a uterus go get one of your very own. Someone's going to tip that can of worms over btw.

[duuli]

Why should anyone choose what you do with your fetus? While I think that you should give the baby to adoption, you should have the choice

[conniption]

I'm definitely Pro-choice, there are circumstances in which abortion is necessary such as in cases of incest, rape, or the woman's life might be in danger.

[Nathaniel]

I feel that abortion is wrong, but the government has no place telling you what you to do with your body. You have the right to terminate your pregnancy (because it is your pregnancy) regardless of the moral or religious stigma surrounding the idea of it.

[Heavyrain4life]

Why should anyone choose what you do with your fetus? While I think that you should give the baby to adoption, you should have the choice

Pro-choice. Because no one has the right to tell a person to carry and birth a child against their will, just because they feel to do otherwise is wrong. The blood is mine, the uterus is mine, the months are mine, if you want a say in what happens in a uterus go get one of your very own. Someone's going to tip that can of worms over btw.

Alright, that's six-three for choice, and no rage wars yet. Went better than my law class at least.

[Mortal Coil]

Abortion is a necessary evil. I'm pro-choice, but it's far from being pro-abortion. It's the woman's blood, body, time and effort. The fetus is not an independent organism until it is born.

[Gigablue]

I'm pro choice. Women should be able to have control over their bodies. The last thing they need is a bunch of men telling them they have to carry a fetus they don't want. Obviously I don't think abortion is good, and the fewer abortions preformed the better, but there are cases where a woman couldn't care for a child or would be in danger by having one. Making it illegal would also just increase the number of illegal abortions. I don't mind if people don't like abortion, but they shouldn't force their opinions on others.

[Guillermo]

The last thing they need is a bunch of men telling them they have to carry a fetus they don't want.

You do realize that there's a good amount of women in the U.S. who are pro-life and not just men...

[Gigablue]

You do realize that there's a good amount of women in the U.S. who are pro-life and not just men...

Yes. It just seems like the majority of pro-life activists and many of the most vocal ones are men. I also don't think men's opinions are as important since they will never get pregnant.

[Heavyrain4life]

Abortion is a necessary evil. I'm pro-choice, but it's far from being pro-abortion. It's the woman's blood, body, time and effort. The fetus is not an independent organism until it is born.

You took my words, and made them simple, and for that, I thank you.

[Guillermo]

Yes. It just seems like the majority of pro-life activists and many of the most vocal ones are men. I also don't think men's opinions are as important since they will never get pregnant.

Maybe so. But it should also be noted that between 2008 and 2010, pro-life supporters sharply rose (both women and men supporters rose, not just men). So really, both genders were being 'vocal', whether it was by being out-spoken in speeches or by vote.

[Abnormal]

Pro-choice. A woman has the rights to her own body, no one can tell her what can or cannot happen to it. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant as a result or if a pregnancy is brought on by incest, a woman has the right to not want to carry that baby and get it aborted. Especially if she's still really, really young and wouldn't be able to do anything to support that child/the childbirth would kill her.

See, if we begin letting people say what women can and cannot do, then we're not going to stop at abortion. We're going to go on and on and on, pretty soon women might not be able to vote again or leave the house without a male escort or join the military anymore. We're going to go right back to the way things used to be for women in this world and I'd rather die than see the day when I cease to be considered a human being and viewed as property.

[Cognizant]

Yes. It just seems like the majority of pro-life activists and many of the most vocal ones are men. I also don't think men's opinions are as important since they will never get pregnant.

Pretty much.

[Sephtyan]

I firmly believe that each person's value can be measured in their experiences, their memories, and the love that they feel for others as well as how much they themselves are loved. Up until the baby is born, the child has no experiences, no memories, and can't love anything. If the mother doesn't love the baby, be it the product of rape or an accident, then she should not feel obligated in any way to carry through with the child's upbringing.

[The Mockingjay]

Definitely, 100%, pro choice. A woman's body is her own and whatever she decides to do with it is not something for politicians to decide. If she has been raped, or can't afford to keep the baby, or if she just isn't mature enough to handle it at a young age, she should definitely have the right to decide for herself.

If a child is born into a family that resents it's very existence it isn't going to have a good childhood. That fact can't be disputed. Why bring a child into the world only to be unhappy?

[Human]

neither really, but i guess pro choice but only if both parents agree.

[james wolf]

Pro choice. Of something is living inside you, feeding off you, and you don't want it, you should have the right to kill it.

[CourtingErmine]

I'm going outside the realm of pro-choice, why? A women has no right to take the life of an unborn, defenseless baby. Also, I do believe if a woman is in danger of losing both her life and the child's life, abort. If you were raped, maybe, but just because you were raped, you get pregnant, why do you have to take it out on another being. Incest, no abortion. You were the stupid one to not use birth control when you did it with your sibling. Also, when pro choice women have kids they actually want, they're being hypocritical by circumcising their sons, hence " my body, my right". I personally believe it is murder, but that's my thoughts. Please no snippy comments on my post.

[Heavyrain4life]

I'm going outside the realm of pro-choice, why? A women has no right to take the life of an unborn, defenseless baby. Also, I do believe if a woman is in danger of losing both her life and the child's life, abort. If you were raped, maybe, but just because you were raped, you get pregnant, why do you have to take it out on another being. Incest, no abortion. You were the stupid one to not use birth control when you did it with your sibling. Also, when pro choice women have kids they actually want, they're being hypocritical by circumcising their sons, hence " my body, my right". I personally believe it is murder, but that's my thoughts. Please no snippy comments on my post.

Of course we wont leave snippy comments. That was the point of laying down the ground rules. I absolutely respect your opinion.

Also, I'm surprised by the amount of people who are Pro choice here.

[CourtingErmine]

Of course we wont leave snippy comments. That was the point of laying down the ground rules. I absolutely respect your opinion.

Also, I'm surprised by the amount of people who are Pro choice here.

Well, it's a help site designed probably by liberals, and most kids on here are liberal, and believe in liberal stuff. Idea, maybe not.

[FreeFall]

Pro-choice female here, I loathe circumcision. It's not my penis, not my place to decide what to do with it. I'll fight my child's father as hard as I can to leave my son uncut.
I completely agree it's a terribly hypocritical thing to say my body my right, and do a 180 and circumcise baby boys.

[Heavyrain4life]

... How did circumcision end up here? And whats the difference between cut and uncut?

[CourtingErmine]

... How did circumcision end up here? And whats the difference between cut and uncut?

Look it up on google. It's actually a very controversial topic. I believe there's actually a thread on that right now that .

[NotYourSombrero]

Except in cases of rape and incest and anything else related why would it be so hard to put the baby up for adoption. I think there are to many options for abortion to be necessary.

[CourtingErmine]

Except in cases of rape and incest and anything else related why would it be so hard to put the baby up for adoption. I think there are to many options for abortion to be necessary.

Rape, maybe, but not incest, you were the dumb shit to have sex with a relative, you keep the baby and own up.

[Heavyrain4life]

See, if we begin letting people say what women can and cannot do, then we're not going to stop at abortion. We're going to go on and on and on, pretty soon women might not be able to vote again or leave the house without a male escort or join the military anymore. We're going to go right back to the way things used to be for women in this world and I'd rather die than see the day when I cease to be considered a human being and viewed as property.

Oooh. Excellent point! Didn't think of it like that.

Thanks for the perspectives guys!

[Human]

but after thinking over it, I think unless the woman has been raped then she should keep the baby. by allowing a penis to enter your vagina you sign an imaginary contract saying that you take responsibility for whatever goes wrong.
if you're not responsible enough to not have a baby, then maybe you aren't responsible enough to keep it though?:o

[Heavyrain4life]

but after thinking over it, I think unless the woman has been raped then she should keep the baby. by allowing a penis to enter your vagina you sign an imaginary contract saying that you take responsibility for whatever goes wrong.
if you're not responsible enough to not have a baby, then maybe you aren't responsible enough to keep it though?:o

As if the victims were fully capable of resisting. If you think it through, you would realize that most rapes involve a struggle.

[FreeFall]

I think he meant those that willingly have sex, not the rape victims.

[Gigablue]

Rape, maybe, but not incest, you were the dumb shit to have sex with a relative, you keep the baby and own up.

I agree that incest is a bad decision, but I don't think a baby should be a form of punishment. It's not fair. The baby has to be raised by parents who don't really want it. It's also not reasonable to punish someone for years for a minor error in judgment.

[Heavyrain4life]

I think he meant those that willingly have sex, not the rape victims.

Oh Derp. I totally read that wrong. I'm just gonna go cry in a corner now.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-10/news/30384749_1_mexican-girl-abortions-young-mother

This is an example of why you can't simply say "If its incest or rape then its fine, but otherwise, no way." Ultimately you will have to PROVE that you were raped before the baby can be aborted. In America (or most countries with better healthcare than Mexico), it might not be AS difficult to prove such a thing, but I would imagine it would still be a lot of grief for the woman. The line is not black and white, it is in fact very gray.

Well, it's a help site designed probably by liberals, and most kids on here are liberal, and believe in liberal stuff. Idea, maybe not.

Not a liberal, still pro-choice. Probrem?

[Jose]

Im pro choice i just think women should decide what to do with their bodies men rhould stay out of it

[FreeFall]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-10/news/30384749_1_mexican-girl-abortions-young-mother

This is an example of why you can't simply say "If its incest or rape then its fine, but otherwise, no way." Ultimately you will have to PROVE that you were raped before the baby can be aborted. In America (or most countries with better healthcare than Mexico), it might not be AS difficult to prove such a thing, but I would imagine it would still be a lot of grief for the woman. The line is not black and white, it is in fact very gray.



Not a liberal, still pro-choice. Probrem?
Completely irrelevant to the subject: Ugh my heart breaks for her. She's such a strong little girl. Rape's pretty hard to prove in some places, I agree, it's made even harder when some women cry rape when there wasn't any.

[Jean Poutine]

Well, it's a help site designed probably by liberals, and most kids on here are liberal, and believe in liberal stuff. Idea, maybe not.

Being pro-choice is liberal? Get out of here. Being pro-choice is a matter of course for any decent person.

I'm going outside the realm of pro-choice, why? A women has no right to take the life of an unborn, defenseless baby. Also, I do believe if a woman is in danger of losing both her life and the child's life, abort. If you were raped, maybe, but just because you were raped, you get pregnant, why do you have to take it out on another being. Incest, no abortion. You were the stupid one to not use birth control when you did it with your sibling. Also, when pro choice women have kids they actually want, they're being hypocritical by circumcising their sons, hence " my body, my right". I personally believe it is murder, but that's my thoughts. Please no snippy comments on my post.

And I personally believe I have a very shallow vagina with a humongous clitoris, not a penis and scrotum. Does that make me right? No.

People need to stop thinking abortion involves "opinion". It doesn't. Legally, an unborn child is not a person. It is stripped of all legal rights because every right we have bestowed to citizens and humans is given to...persons only. A foetus does not have legal personhood until it is born. It can't start a company, it can't go on strike, and it doesn't have freedom of expression or even the right to live. One caveat : an unborn fetus has no rights unless it is in its benefit to, where it is considered as if it were born (the infans conceptus rule). Guess what? Even with this rule...those rights stop short of the right to life, because the kid has to be alive in the first place to take advantage of this retroactivity.

Scientifically, a foetus is a parasite. It can't live on its own. It relies on stealing nutrition from the mother to survive. It is fully part of the mother until she gives birth, kinda like your finger until you cut it off slicing vegetables. A fetus isn't any more alive than my finger is until it draws in its first breath.

Last I heard, we gave women the right to vote and work at equal salaries for equal work with men. My province's prime minister is a woman. A woman can do what the hell she wants with her body. Proposing to restrain that right to the profit of an unborn, sometimes unwanted "thing" is disgusting. You know what removing a woman's right to do what she pleases with her womb and vagina is? It's rape. It's legislative rape by a few old men signing bills, who will never have to feel like they are being forced into having something they don't want inside them.

Will we go back to the cavemen era and make it legal to have sex with a woman after clubbing her on the head too? You know, they can't control their own bodies.

Pro-lifers are repulsive, they ignore all logic in favor of dumb, unfounded "feelings" and I sincerely wish they steer clear of any position of real power where they could enact their hateful, debased, backwards and completely, patently ridiculous little ideas.

[Heavyrain4life]

Being pro-choice is liberal? Get out of here. Being pro-choice is a matter of course for any decent person.



And I personally believe I have a very shallow vagina with a humongous clitoris, not a penis and scrotum. Does that make me right? No.

People need to stop thinking abortion involves "opinion". It doesn't. Legally, an unborn child is not a person. It is stripped of all legal rights because every right we have bestowed to citizens and humans is given to...persons only. A foetus does not have legal personhood until it is born. It can't start a company, it can't go on strike, and it doesn't have freedom of expression or even the right to live. One caveat : an unborn fetus has no rights unless it is in its benefit to, where it is considered as if it were born (the infans conceptus rule). Guess what? Even with this rule...those rights stop short of the right to life, because the kid has to be alive in the first place to take advantage of this retroactivity.

Scientifically, a foetus is a parasite. It can't live on its own. It relies on stealing nutrition from the mother to survive. It is fully part of the mother until she gives birth, kinda like your finger until you cut it off slicing vegetables. A fetus isn't any more alive than my finger is until it draws in its first breath.

Last I heard, we gave women the right to vote and work at equal salaries for equal work with men. My province's prime minister is a woman. A woman can do what the hell she wants with her body. Proposing to restrain that right to the profit of an unborn, sometimes unwanted "thing" is disgusting. You know what removing a woman's right to do what she pleases with her womb and vagina is? It's rape. It's legislative rape by a few old men signing who will never have to feel like they are being forced into having something they don't want.

Will we go back to the cavemen era and make it legal to have sex with a woman after clubbing her on the head too? You know, they can't control their own bodies.

Pro-lifers are repulsive, they ignore all logic in favor of dumb, unfounded "feelings" and I sincerely wish they steer clear of any position of real power where they could enact their hateful, debased, backwards and completely, patently ridiculous little ideas.

Decent points, but you might want to take it down a bit before you start a war.

[Iris]

Wtf is this argument that women can get abortions if raped. If the whole premise of pro lifers is that a fetus is a person, why would it be ok to kill it simply because of the way it's conceived? I'm pro-choice-a fetus is no more alive than your fingers and toes, but c'mon pro lifers, at least use some logic.

Decent points, but you might want to take it down a bit before you start a war.

Lol. That blew my mind. What bullshit.

[Heavyrain4life]

Lol. That blew my mind. What bullshit.

What bullshit?

[Iris]

What bullshit?

Decent points, but you might want to take it down a bit before you start a war.

start a fucking war. if someone has good, logical points, they should absolutely express them. Whether they offend or not.

[Heavyrain4life]

start a fucking war. if someone has good, logical points, they should absolutely express them. Whether they offend or not.

I made it clear that it wouldn't be tolerated. It can start a war because it is such a controversial subject. The same thing happened in my law class, and it was an absolute disaster. If you disagree with my requests, then don't post on this thread. Simple. The point of debating a topic such as this is to find a solution that we all agree on, not to start fights about abortion.

Sincerely, someone who doesn't care anymore.

[FreeFall]

Frankly you can't stop a woman from terminating a pregnancy she really doesn't want. She'll find a way, making abortions illegal will just make those ways very unsafe.

[Gigablue]

I made it clear that it wouldn't be tolerated. It can start a war because it is such a controversial subject. The same thing happened in my law class, and it was an absolute disaster. If you disagree with my requests, then don't post on this thread. Simple. The point of debating a topic such as this is to find a solution that we all agree on, not to start fights about abortion.

Sincerely, someone who doesn't care anymore.

This is a debate forum. The chances that everyone will agree, especially on such a controversial topic, are small. While people should be civilized and on topic, there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

[Jess]

I'm pro-choice. No one has the right to tell a woman You shouldn't have an abortion because I think it's wrong. Just because YOU think it's wrong doesn't mean you have the right to stop a woman from making her own decisions. It's her body. A fetus is not a person, the woman's rights shouldn't be overtaken by something that's not even born yet.

Would you rather have women go back to a dark alley to get an abortion? Better to have a safe one.

[Heavyrain4life]

This is a debate forum. The chances that everyone will agree, especially on such a controversial topic, are small. While people should be civilized and on topic, there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

I understand there will be disagreement, but it doesn't require her to be rude about it.

[CourtingErmine]

Alright, a fetus is a living being. It has a heartbeat. Sure, it is a "parasite", but that parasite will give you so much love and kindness. Alright, let me put it this way, if you aren't ready for a baby, you're not ready for sex. I've heard multiple accounts of people who regret having an abortion. It's a life, it shouldn't be taken away, it's murder. Bottom line. I personally believe that so much potential has been lost by abortion. Think about it this way, pancreatic cancer. No one knows how to treat it yet in a safe way. A fetus that was aborted could've had the solution to that. Think of it that way.

[FreeFall]

Alright, let me put it this way, if you aren't ready for a baby, you're not ready for sex.
That's such terribly an unfair thing to say.

So really the only people that should have sex are the sterile? Because they'll never have to worry about an oopsie since they'll never conceive or carry to term?

Some people never want a baby, never want to reproduce in their life. The sensible thing to say would be cut off your testicles or ovaries, but that's not always sensible. Complications, hormones, if they ever happen to change their mind, etc. prevents that. But there's always that chance they'll conceive, so they should never ever have sex in their life?

There's a difference between being ready for sex and being ready to care for another human life. A huge, vast difference. And with the options available to us to cut the chances of reproducing, how's it fair to pretty much restrict sexual activity to stepping up for a parental role?

[Gigablue]

Alright, a fetus is a living being. It has a heartbeat. Sure, it is a "parasite", but that parasite will give you so much love and kindness. Alright, let me put it this way, if you aren't ready for a baby, you're not ready for sex. I've heard multiple accounts of people who regret having an abortion. It's a life, it shouldn't be taken away, it's murder. Bottom line. I personally believe that so much potential has been lost by abortion. Think about it this way, pancreatic cancer. No one knows how to treat it yet in a safe way. A fetus that was aborted could've had the solution to that. Think of it that way.

A fetus is living, but is not a human being. It has human DNA and the potential to become a human being, but is not until it is born. Biologically, it is a parasite feeding off the mother's body. The mother should have the choice as to whether she wants to carry it or not. The mother is indisputably a human being with rights. The fetus doesn't have the same rights as the mother.

People should be able to have sex even if they don't want a baby. It's irresponsible if they don't use protection, but they shouldn't forfeit their rights just because they made a bad decision. Nothing takes away a person's basic rights, such as the right to their own body.

The fetus does have potential, but if its a child that the mother doesn't want, chances are it won't grow up with supporting parents and will potentially end up with problems later in life as a result.

Birth control also takes away the potential of a new person. There is a chance that a fetus that wasn't conceived might have cured cancer. Does that mean we should ban birth control? No. Should we ban abortion? No.

[CourtingErmine]

Alright, fair enough.

[Heavyrain4life]

Wow. I come from a place where everyone is pro life and screams baby killer as soon as you bring the subject up. It's refreshing to see some new opinions.

[Sogeking]

See, if we begin letting people say what women can and cannot do, then we're not going to stop at abortion. We're going to go on and on and on, pretty soon women might not be able to vote again or leave the house without a male escort or join the military anymore. We're going to go right back to the way things used to be for women in this world and I'd rather die than see the day when I cease to be considered a human being and viewed as property.

What? Most Pro lifers don't care about how an adult women chooses to live out her life. What rustles their jimmies is she is making a decision that will affect another beings life or potential for life. Leave the fetus out of it and they wouldn't care what other decisions a woman makes. I fail to see how preventing a "life" from being lost will ultimately lead to the subjugation of women.

[Heavyrain4life]

What? Most Pro lifers don't care about how an adult women chooses to live out her life. What rustles their jimmies is she is making a decision that will affect another beings life or potential for life. Leave the fetus out of it and they wouldn't care what other decisions a woman makes. I fail to see how preventing a "life" from being lost will ultimately lead to the subjugation of women.

While you do make a good point, the fact is, it would happen. Its a 80% probability (give or take) that the government would limit women's rights beyond the outlaw of abortion. Now, it might not happen to the extent she mentioned, but it will happen. It's a gateway to a bad path.

[Kobra]

Okay, so put this in your head:

A male and a female are ready to have sex. They have taken all of the proper precautions of birth control (besides abstinence). The female has been on a regular schedule of birth control pills for over a month, and the male is using a proper condom. They have sexual intercourse. Unbeknownst to the male, the condom had an extremely small hole, and a drop of semen leaks through this hole undetected. The females birth control pills had failed. 2 weeks later, the female misses her period, and learns she is pregnant. Neither of these young adults are financially, or mentally, ready for a child, nor do they want one. They took all of the proper precautions, but now what? Their parents gave them the choices of abortion, or keep the baby. What happens now?

This is what happened to my friends. They ended up having the baby aborted, because they weren't ready, but they took the right steps to avoid pregnancy, but still have sex. My point is that a woman should have complete control over an abortion. Sometimes you just can't prevent pregnancy without abstinence.

Sorry for the "story", by the way.

[randomnessqueen]

people should choose based on their beliefs
but i would never have an abortion

[Mob Boss]

I'm pro-choice. I, personally, would never have one, but those that do want an abortion should have the option to have one.

[Sugaree]

This is a debate forum. The chances that everyone will agree, especially on such a controversial topic, are small. While people should be civilized and on topic, there is nothing wrong with disagreement.

Except if it's gay marriage. Everyone here agrees on gay marriage.

[Human]

Just because the woman is giving birth, it doesn't mean she should have 100% choice on the matter.
It's 50% the man too, 50% of the mans genetic material and it isn't fair to get rid of it just because you're the woman.

[Gigablue]

Just because the woman is giving birth, it doesn't mean she should have 100% choice on the matter.
It's 50% the man too, 50% of the mans genetic material and it isn't fair to get rid of it just because you're the woman.

While the both contribute equal amounts of genetic material, the woman is the one who has to carry the fires for nine months, and also has to give birth. She has thus a bigger contribution and should have more of a say in the matter. Obviously it's better if they both agree, but the woman's should overrule the man's if they don't agree.

[Human]

While the both contribute equal amounts of genetic material, the woman is the one who has to carry the fires for nine months, and also has to give birth. She has thus a bigger contribution and should have more of a say in the matter. Obviously it's better if they both agree, but the woman's should overrule the man's if they don't agree.

By allowing the male to insert his penis into her vagina the woman should fully understand that she is the one bound to carry the baby not the man, just because the man literally cannot carry the baby it doesn't make it fair. I'm sure some fathers would love to take the pain off their wives and carry it around instead but they physically can't. The woman should of realised it would be painful before she tried for a baby

[FreeFall]

But yet it's perfectly fine to force a woman to carry a child she does not want, force her to go to pre-natal exams for a child she does not want, make her take maternity leave for a child she does not want, force her to go through labor for a child she does not want, put her on bed rest for her own health because of a child she does not want, make her go through hormonal changes for a child she does not want, risk post-partum depression for a child she does not want, make her body change for a child she does not want, risk tearing for a child she does not want, risk a collapsed sphincter, deal with the afterbirth for a child she does not want, maybe go through a c-section for a child she not want, sometimes even death for a child she does not want, all because the man who's sperm was used wants to be a daddy?
Sure. Seems fair to force her to be an incubator for his spawn at a time she does not want to.

[Magical]

See, if we begin letting people say what women can and cannot do, then we're not going to stop at abortion. We're going to go on and on and on, pretty soon women might not be able to vote again or leave the house without a male escort or join the military anymore. We're going to go right back to the way things used to be for women in this world and I'd rather die than see the day when I cease to be considered a human being and viewed as property.

No.

No fallacies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Please don't.

I'm pro choice, but fallacies are not allowed.

Of course, women shouldn't be able to force men to pay for a child they don't want. (If the woman doesn't want abortion, and the man does.)

[xXoblivionXx]

Pro Life, except for if the baby was from rape, the mother's health is at risk or something like that. If you accidentally get pregnant and you don't want to be pregnant I think you don't have the right to kill it

[Thepolice5291]

Pro Life, of course there are Exceptions
#Rape- Get it aborted within 1 month
#Incest
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[May_Star]

Pro-choice but it doesn't mean I'm a fan of abortion. I don't consider a zygote a life, so IMHO, it's not really wrong to take pills or whatnot to take the zygote out from the body. Besides, it would be sad for a child to grow up and learn that his parents never wanted him.

[Human]

But yet it's perfectly fine to force a woman to carry a child she does not want, force her to go to pre-natal exams for a child she does not want, make her take maternity leave for a child she does not want, force her to go through labor for a child she does not want, put her on bed rest for her own health because of a child she does not want, make her go through hormonal changes for a child she does not want, risk post-partum depression for a child she does not want, make her body change for a child she does not want, risk tearing for a child she does not want, risk a collapsed sphincter, deal with the afterbirth for a child she does not want, maybe go through a c-section for a child she not want, sometimes even death for a child she does not want, all because the man who's sperm was used wants to be a daddy?
Sure. Seems fair to force her to be an incubator for his spawn at a time she does not want to. Well the woman should of known that she would go through that, if she didn't know she clearly wasn't ready and shouldn't of done it in the first place. Why should the man be denied a son? If she didn't want a child she shouldn't of risked it, or had sex.

[FreeFall]

Because in today's day and age sex is purely for child making? That's the mindset of the old ages. Birth control fails.

We have means to prevent pregnancy, they're not fool proof, but going by your logic should one never engage in sex until they're simply ready to take on parental responsibilities then? Again, the only people that should ever engage in sex are the sterile and same sex couples because they'll never risk conceiving?

The act of sex is no longer strictly limited to the use of making children. The first contraceptive threw in more uses and pushed the original purpose onto a list to share. Recreational purposes, a way to show love, a way of being vulnerable to your partner, releif, connection and understanding. Babies are ultimately what comes out of sex if birth control and ovulation charting fails, but it's no longer the high priority like it was so long ago.

There's a vast and huge difference between being ready for sex, and being ready to pop out human life. Just because you're bending over or spreading your legs does not means you're saying "I am 100% ready for a child!" There's a clear distinction of maturity and emotion and financial reasons. To throw that in, only the wealthy and well off should have sex then too?

So I'll ask you again, why should you force a woman to be your incubator?
Also, what right has a man to be a father just because he knows how to ejaculate?

[Gigablue]

Well the woman should of known that she would go through that, if she didn't know she clearly wasn't ready and shouldn't of done it in the first place. Why should the man be denied a son? If she didn't want a child she shouldn't of risked it, or had sex.

Sex isn't just for having children. People should be able to have sex without worrying about having children they don't want.

Even if someone makes a stupid decision and doesn't use protection, they shouldn't be forced to have a child. A baby shouldn't be the punishment for a single bad decision. Also, by forcing a couple to have a child they don't want, you not only punish them, but also the child.

[Human]

Sex isn't just for having children. People should be able to have sex without worrying about having children they don't want.

Even if someone makes a stupid decision and doesn't use protection, they shouldn't be forced to have a child. A baby shouldn't be the punishment for a single bad decision. Also, by forcing a couple to have a child they don't want, you not only punish them, but also the child.

Well if they were just having casual sex, then that means the man would probably not want the baby too, making it fair as they both get their choice. So if they both didn't want a baby, then they would both say they didn't want it and it would be okay.

[Thepolice5291]

Because in today's day and age sex is purely for child making? That's the mindset of the old ages. Birth control fails.

We have means to prevent pregnancy, they're not fool proof, but going by your logic should one never engage in sex until they're simply ready to take on parental responsibilities then? Again, the only people that should ever engage in sex are the sterile and same sex couples because they'll never risk conceiving?

The act of sex is no longer strictly limited to the use of making children. The first contraceptive threw in more uses and pushed the original purpose onto a list to share. Recreational purposes, a way to show love, a way of being vulnerable to your partner, releif, connection and understanding. Babies are ultimately what comes out of sex if birth control and ovulation charting fails, but it's no longer the high priority like it was so long ago.

There's a vast and huge difference between being ready for sex, and being ready to pop out human life. Just because you're bending over or spreading your legs does not means you're saying "I am 100% ready for a child!" There's a clear distinction of maturity and emotion and financial reasons. To throw that in, only the wealthy and well off should have sex then too?

So I'll ask you again, why should you force a woman to be your incubator?
Also, what right has a man to be a father just because he knows how to ejaculate?

And that's why society looks down on youth these days, half of teenage girls are slutty and spread their legs for anyone, a quarter will have sex with their lover, and the last quarter are keeping their virginity as something special.
Also don't want a child use a condom, pills and take steroids.

[hero98]

ffs, I clicked the wrong button damn it. Well, I'm Pro-Choice. I definitely don't think that abortion is a good thing, but I think that it should still be a choice. Obviously I don't have to worry about getting an abortion, but in the case that I got a girl pregnant I most likely would not SUGGEST abortion, but I would support her in whatever decision she makes. I would rather have women getting abortions in clean facilities, then in the back of a dirty van parked in a dark alley. Point is, if abortions are not legal, women are still going to find way to dispose of the baby, most of them being very unsafe for herself. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one but DO NOT force your beliefs on others.

I 100% agree with this.

[FreeFall]

And that's why society looks down on youth these days, half of teenage girls are slutty and spread their legs for anyone, a quarter will have sex with their lover, and the last quarter are keeping their virginity as something special.
Also don't want a child use a condom, pills and take steroids.
Birth control fails. My post also wasn't advocating being a person that sleeps around uncontrollably.
So, agreed with your last part. I'm a strong advocate for birth control and think sex without any, unless due to medical reasons, is the stupidest way to screw your life over.
But the first part of your post, so?

So what if someone likes to have a lot of sex with different partners? So what if someone's having sex every night with their boyfriend? You don't want to be like that? Then don't, but it's not your place to stick your views on a person's sex life and condemn them for it. You've got your own to focus on.
I hate lose girls, I don't like overly horny people, but their sex life is their personal business and people are too judgmental to begin with.
It doesn't matter if they're a teen or not anyways. There are some middle aged adults far more sexually lose than a 16 year old.

And it's not just teenage girls. Guys can be just as bad, sometimes worse.

[Gigablue]

Well if they were just having casual sex, then that means the man would probably not want the baby too, making it fair as they both get their choice. So if they both didn't want a baby, then they would both say they didn't want it and it would be okay.

If the man wants to keep the child, but the woman doesn't want to, she shouldn't have to. The woman has to carry the child for nine months, and then has to give birth. It's not necessarily fair that man can't choose to carry the child for her, but since he can't, her opinion is the more important one.