Will the United States of America fall?

[Cicero]

So I was thinking of how all great nations have fallen, The Roman Empire, Greece, etc. Back then, try never thougt they would fall, when eventually they did. Do you think the USA will ever fall? If so, when and how and by who?

[huginnmuninn]

I would give it 50 years before it stops being regarded as a super power. 100- 200 years and it will probably break up for some reason. no evidence just personal opinion.

[Neptune]

Yes, I do think that the United States will eventually fall. All nations do, for people who disagree with me, tell me ONE nation that hasn’t. The when/how/by who is the hard part of the question. If I had to guess, the United States will last at-least another 200 years (not in military strength but same type of government, etc.) I could always be wrong. If you would have asked a Russian in 1900, how long do you think tell the Czar Government collapses, do you think they would have told you 20 years? If you had asked a soviet in 1960, how long do you think the Soviet Union will last, do you think they would tell you that it would last for another 30 years?

For all we know, the United States could collapse into a state of Civil War tomorrow. We simply do not know the future.

[TheBigUnit]

You soviet analogy is right but ur czar is wrong, that nation was starting to crumble by then, the usa will tie with china as a SP then be a powerful nation like europe. India may or may not be the best nation after let's say 100 yrs until it can't sustain the populous, if usa marooned today the whole worlds economy goes out too

[Gigablue]

I think the US will fall eventually, but not very soon. All countries break up eventually. Other countries will gain more power and the US will lose much of its influence eventually. I don't really know when this will happen, but I would predict in the next century or two. Within a few centuries, I think the US will have separated into several countries or destroyed itself. I don't really have any evidence or experience with predictions, so all my predictions are nothing more than speculation.

[FreeFall]

It will and it's already come dangerously close, the Great Depression and Civil War. People feared the economy would never come back and we'd cave in, people feared a divided nation and ruin of America with the civil war.

We're not an indestructible nation. But we won't go the way of the Empires and lose our civilization as we know it. We'll just fall, crash, and hopefully get back up.

[dontfiguremeout]

I don't think our nation will fall, after all the laws and government we have! Now I do believe that some part of our nation will fall, like an individual state, but not our country!

[Levy]

As a country no, in power maybe. It just won't up and disappear, unless the rest of the world vanishes as well.

[MisterSix]

Its already started to collapse.

All your debt
Occupying countries because you can
Micro managing the population

Give it 5 years max and you will see a big change

[Abigballofdust]

Its already started to collapse.

All your debt
Occupying countries because you can
Micro managing the population

Give it 5 years max and you will see a big change

Not 5 years, but something more.
Anyways, I heard even Texas wants to detach. That's the beginning of the end.
It won't happen in a fortnight, but will happen through time, because that's how history goes. USA as such will probably live much much more, but will shrink through time. The differencies between countries will slowly lead to further detachment and hopefully it'll be peaceful. It only depends on how soon the first country will call itself American, instead of United American.
Now, this is only my view to it, from a historic point. I have no claim to back my story up besides taking what happened in many countries throughout the 20th century, and still happens now (Kosovo and Serbia, North and South Italy, etc...).

[TheBigUnit]

Texas won't seperate we already saw what would happen if they did. This is not the uk and scotland, us 'mericans carry guns. China is the most successful nation ever its dynasties were the head of science wealth and power, they just had a "off century" that bc the rich were getting richer and the poor, poorer....sounds familiar?

[MisterSix]

The differencies between countries will slowly lead to further detachment and hopefully it'll be peaceful.

They have the largest military in the world and love to use it... I highly doubt it will be peaceful

[Abigballofdust]

Texas won't seperate we already saw what would happen if they did. This is not the uk and scotland, us 'mericans carry guns. China is the most successful nation ever its dynasties were the head of science wealth and power, they just had a "off century" that bc the rich were getting richer and the poor, poorer....sounds familiar?
What would happen if Texas separated? You'd go to weapons and try and bring it back? Isn't each country entitled to a detachment in case it wanted to?
And I don't understand the China reference.

They have the largest military in the world and love to use it... I highly doubt it will be peaceful
There's so many examples of secession wars and if I'm not wrong, even the Americans fought one. Would they really be such hypocrites to commit the same mistake England did not more than 3 centuries ago?

[FreeFall]

What would happen if Texas separated? You'd go to weapons and try and bring it back? Isn't each country entitled to a detachment in case it wanted to?
And I don't understand the China reference.
No. As far as the country knows, none of our states want to leave.
Texas did though secede from Mexico, and Congress took it in as a state. Then the Mexican American War happened. A small group caused commotion in the 90's about leaving the union, but that wasn't a legal group or anything to worry about.
Russia's stated once before, if Alaska secedes from my country then they will invade the ex-state within 12 hours and take it back for Russia.
I'm not sure states are allowed to secede, it's more of a once you're in the Union, you stay here. But yes, we'd go in to get our state back and so would other countries if ever that occurred. The state has no defense, really no power to successfully maintain itself and own system and is basically a sitting duck. Now if the South decided to secede again things may be different, but we'd go to war again and have to deal with other countries once more.

There's so many examples of secession wars and if I'm not wrong, even the Americans fought one. Would they really be such hypocrites to commit the same mistake England did not more than 3 centuries ago?
You call it hypocrisy if we fought to get our state back, I fail to see how. My ancestors fought to be free of Britain's rule because they were being treated unfairly. Taxed too high, no right of property, everything and the air was parliament's and the king's. They were British subjects without the rights of British subjects. There's a difference between a state leaving because it can and fighting for a cause of freedom. The states have rights the same as others, the state creates their own taxes even though yes there is a federal tax, the states make their own laws and yes there are federal taxes, but there's no reason for them to go unless Washington wants to really mess up and be left alone. If a state were to leave, it'd be far from peaceful. Even if the U.S. didn't move a finger at it.

[TheBigUnit]

@abigballofdust

Not necessarily, if texas wants to seperate we won't let it just go and there might be a civil war along with it too bc if texas goes others might too like hawaii.........china was always great as in power except the time period of like 1870-1970 when there was really corrupt rule.......

As for ur other comment, simpily yes they would they'll suppress what they want except they don't like to show it, thts y they supported lybia and denounced egypt other than for oil, colonist were happy to be british it was only until they didn't have a representative did they rebel

[AXZ34e81b949e]

If we don't see some fall-of-the-Roman-Empire-type shit, we will definitely see the death of the welfare state and therefore also our moderately comfortable lives as we know them.

[Thunderstorm]

They have the largest military in the world and love to use it... I highly doubt it will be peaceful

What country is ever peaceful? NONE. I love how foreigners think they know everything about our country. I try not to sound like a know-it-all about every other country. I try to worry about my country before I worry about theirs....

Yeah eventually it will. Probably not significantly in most of our lifetimes, but maybe a couple of us will live to see the demise of the current type of Governement. If China passes us, then the everythign will matter more about China than us. If we were to go down now, every country would, even the strongest such as China, The UK, Norway, Canada etc.

[Zarakly]

I think we will fall eventually, but I think by the time we fall it won't be only 50 sates. I think that we might get control(not that we are fighting) of Canada if they decided to change their Government ways. Mexico I don't think we are going to take until we get rid of the drug cartel then I think we will take Mexico. Maybe separate it into smaller states after to make it easier to control.

[Sleepy Raisin]

All countries break up eventually.
Not China. Theyve been one country since they became one empire.

and in my opinion, no, USA wont fall, at least it wont be for hundereds and hundereds of years, but when it happens it'll be something that no one can control. Besides even if a country decides to invade USA, we have allies. We've spent years making allies, and it'll pay off. Plus, remember how unified when 9/11 happened? Well we'll go back to that, and we will be as one country, again.

[Syntax]

Theyve been one country since they became one empire.

It depends on what dynasty of China you're referring to.

Each nation will always reach its apex, like Ancient Greece, Imperial Rome, Ming China, etc. And then eventually, there will be a decline. You can't out rule such a possibility. The examples of the history before showed it. Who knows, maybe there will be secession? Or maybe reformation? The US will fall but not now.

[Zarakly]

It depends on what dynasty of China you're referring to.

Each nation will always reach its apex, like Ancient Greece, Imperial Rome, Ming China, etc. And then eventually, there will be a decline. You can't out rule such a possibility. The examples of the history before showed it. Who knows, maybe there will be secession? Or maybe reformation? The US will fall but not now.


Just because it has happened in the past does not mean it will happen. America potentially could fall, or it could potentially last as long as the Earth or we get a new planet. You don't always need to repeat the past, isn't that the whole point of learning history and stuff? SO you don't repeat the past. I still think though, if we were to fall, it will be in a long time and by then we are more than just the 50 states.

[Danny_boi 16]

So I was thinking of how all great nations have fallen, The Roman Empire, Greece, etc. Back then, try never thougt they would fall, when eventually they did. Do you think the USA will ever fall? If so, when and how and by who?


No, I don't think so. because those were empires with a joke of a government. They used force to conquer the outlaying lands. But we are a Republic that succeed for centuries. We cannot fall, and we will not fall. this is no bottom if we continue to exceed others.

[Guillermo]

The US will definitely decrease in power very soon. Think about it. If the world has an oil shortage (and we used all of our reserves), we'd have to depend on other nations like countries in the Middle East for oil. Hmmm let's see, what are those two other countries with over a billion people in each of them? Oh yeah! China and India. China with 1,343,239,923 and India with 1,205,073,612 and then the USA with only 313,847,465 (July 2012 est.). And India is projected to surpass China in population by 2025. So who'd have the power to buy the oil then? China and India first before us. We send jobs over there too that make our goods cheaper here. Cheaper = we buy more from them. Who's making the money? They are.

Furthermore, it's only a matter of time before the USA falls. It's only a matter of time before ALL nations fall. So, who knows. I can't predict the future and when it will happen.

[Syntax]

The US will definitely decrease in power very soon. Think about it. If the world has an oil shortage (and we used all of our reserves), we'd have to depend on other nations like countries in the Middle East for oil. Hmmm let's see, what are those two other countries with over a billion people in each of them? Oh yeah! China and India. China with 1,343,239,923 and India with 1,205,073,612 and then the USA with only 313,847,465 (July 2012 est.). And India is projected to surpass China in population by 2025. So who'd have the power to buy the oil then? China and India first before us. We send jobs over there too that make our goods cheaper here. Cheaper = we buy more from them. Who's making the money? They are.

Furthermore, it's only a matter of time before the USA falls. It's only a matter of time before ALL nations fall. So, who knows. I can't predict the future and when it will happen.

If you don't mind, what's the relation of a country's population with the buying of oil?

[Cicero]

The US will definitely decrease in power very soon. Think about it. If the world has an oil shortage (and we used all of our reserves), we'd have to depend on other nations like countries in the Middle East for oil. Hmmm let's see, what are those two other countries with over a billion people in each of them? Oh yeah! China and India. China with 1,343,239,923 and India with 1,205,073,612 and then the USA with only 313,847,465 (July 2012 est.). And India is projected to surpass China in population by 2025. So who'd have the power to buy the oil then? China and India first before us. We send jobs over there too that make our goods cheaper here. Cheaper = we buy more from them. Who's making the money? They are.

Furthermore, it's only a matter of time before the USA falls. It's only a matter of time before ALL nations fall. So, who knows. I can't predict the future and when it will happen.

Population means nothing. The US has more oil than the middle east. We're just waiting till the middle east runs out so they come running to us (from what I've heard from my economics teacher and history teacher)

As of right now, we're the strongest super power in the world with the best and strongest military in the world...

[Zarakly]

The US will definitely decrease in power very soon. Think about it. If the world has an oil shortage (and we used all of our reserves), we'd have to depend on other nations like countries in the Middle East for oil. Hmmm let's see, what are those two other countries with over a billion people in each of them? Oh yeah! China and India. China with 1,343,239,923 and India with 1,205,073,612 and then the USA with only 313,847,465 (July 2012 est.). And India is projected to surpass China in population by 2025. So who'd have the power to buy the oil then? China and India first before us. We send jobs over there too that make our goods cheaper here. Cheaper = we buy more from them. Who's making the money? They are.

Furthermore, it's only a matter of time before the USA falls. It's only a matter of time before ALL nations fall. So, who knows. I can't predict the future and when it will happen.

By the time that we run out of oil(that includes our own reserves) I believe we will have other means of transportation besides just oil. THere are already HFC cars and trucks being made, they are a good replacement. They give off no pollution, in fact they give off water that is pure enough to drink. The only problem that we have about making them is the catalyst used to make the process, it is made of gold or platinum. Research is being used to make a catalyst with other stuff.

[TheBigUnit]

Not China. Theyve been one country since they became one empire.

and in my opinion, no, USA wont fall, at least it wont be for hundereds and hundereds of years, but when it happens it'll be something that no one can control. Besides even if a country decides to invade USA, we have allies. We've spent years making allies, and it'll pay off. Plus, remember how unified when 9/11 happened? Well we'll go back to that, and we will be as one country, again.

Not quite more like diffrent kingdoms but they popped at diff times like the empire of florida then 500 years later the kingdom of maine but still america sortof

Canada would never join with us unless something really crazy happens, besides what would we gain really? Timber?!?!? They have decent oil and usa does get most of its oil from canada, tht y if sh't happens in middle east we still have oil just more expensive

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I was thinking of a couple outcomes. A country launches a nuke, which causes a chain reaction and almost every major country in the world ends up destroyed. That or there is a serious change in the type of government we have (one way or another) and we either destroy ourselves through civil war or we collapse under extremist policies (again when either side goes too far, it gets ugly). I suppose China could get fed up with the amount of money we owe them and decide to invade us.

In either case there's no real way to determine when or even if these things will happen. One part of Drake's equation in terms of meeting intelligent life is the chance that the race could have destroyed themselves before we could make contact.

[TheBigUnit]

I was thinking of a couple outcomes. A country launches a nuke, which causes a chain reaction and almost every major country in the world ends up destroyed. That or there is a serious change in the type of government we have (one way or another) and we either destroy ourselves through civil war or we collapse under extremist policies (again when either side goes too far, it gets ugly). I suppose China could get fed up with the amount of money we owe them and decide to invade us.

In either case there's no real way to determine when or even if these things will happen. One part of Drake's equation in terms of meeting intelligent life is the chance that the race could have destroyed themselves before we could make contact.

China like having us in their debt, evry year we pay off the interest not the actuial debt

[FreeFall]

Not quite more like diffrent kingdoms but they popped at diff times like the empire of florida then 500 years later the kingdom of maine but still america sortof

Canada would never join with us unless something really crazy happens, besides what would we gain really? Timber?!?!? They have decent oil and usa does get most of its oil from canada, tht y if sh't happens in middle east we still have oil just more expensive
Just to jump in, Canada would more likely turn to France or England before us. We'd probably be last resort unless there were certain circumstances. And agreed about the oil.

[TheBigUnit]

They prance around when the royals visit

[xXJust Jump ItXx]

No one takes in consideration those empires... Ruled for hundreds of years... the US is only a bit over 200 years old. And I dont know if it matters but they were "empires" too and had different governments, plans, communications. Its very different now and then, you need to look at why they feel not that they just fell.

[Guillermo]

If you don't mind, what's the relation of a country's population with the buying of oil?

It's simple. China and India have millions upon millions of more people than we do. More people means more money. And plus they'd be served first if we had a world oil crisis just because they have more people. They're demand for oil is expected to rise by 50% by 2030 (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/if-the-oil-runs-out/) because of their rising populations and flourishing economies.

Population means nothing.

Population does mean something in China and India's case. More people = more money.

The US has more oil than the middle east. We're just waiting till the middle east runs out so they come running to us (from what I've heard from my economics teacher and history teacher)

No we don't have more oil reserves than the Middle East. That's funny that you think we do. And your teachers are full of shit, really. If anything, it's the other way around. They're probably waiting for us to run out of oil reserves so they could have the power. More oil = more power.

As of right now, we're the strongest super power in the world with the best and strongest military in the world...

Yes, as of right now. But this won't last. We'll eventually piss other nations off to the point where they'll take action (aka nuclear weapons) and destroy us. I wouldn't be surprised. We're already uneasy with various Middle Eastern nations and North Korea.

By the time that we run out of oil(that includes our own reserves) I believe we will have other means of transportation besides just oil. THere are already HFC cars and trucks being made, they are a good replacement. They give off no pollution, in fact they give off water that is pure enough to drink. The only problem that we have about making them is the catalyst used to make the process, it is made of gold or platinum. Research is being used to make a catalyst with other stuff.

This is true. But it's not only the worry about giving off pollution, it's having to use another resource. It's really just a repeat of finding fossil fuels and using them for oil. We'd have to make catalyst which means we'd have to find gold or platinum. And when that runs out we'd have to find other stuff... See how it's just a repeat?

[Zarakly]

BUT they have been doing research on an ammonia borane and can possibly be using that for a catalyst instead.
http://www.sciencecodex.com/breakthrough_in_hydrogen_fuel_cells Source

[Cicero]

It's simple. China and India have millions upon millions of more people than we do. More people means more money. And plus they'd be served first if we had a world oil crisis just because they have more people. They're demand for oil is expected to rise by 50% by 2030 (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/if-the-oil-runs-out/) because of their rising populations and flourishing economies.



Population does mean something in China and India's case. More people = more money.



No we don't have more oil reserves than the Middle East. That's funny that you think we do. And your teachers are full of shit, really. If anything, it's the other way around. They're probably waiting for us to run out of oil reserves so they could have the power. More oil = more power.



Yes, as of right now. But this won't last. We'll eventually piss other nations off to the point where they'll take action (aka nuclear weapons) and destroy us. I wouldn't be surprised. We're already uneasy with various Middle Eastern nations and North Korea.



This is true. But it's not only the worry about giving off pollution, it's having to use another resource. It's really just a repeat of finding fossil fuels and using them for oil. We'd have to make catalyst which means we'd have to find gold or platinum. And when that runs out we'd have to find other stuff... See how it's just a repeat?
Ever seen china and India? The majority is living in poverty. Honestly, whatever country that can afford the oil will get served first. The government in china owns every single business there is there. The US would be one of few countries that would get served before others.

As I said before, the US has more oil than the middle east. So we don't have to worry as much as other country's.

[Guillermo]

Ever seen china and India? The majority is living in poverty.

The majority would mean that over 50% of people in China and India are living in poverty. This is obviously not true. (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/print_2046.html)

Honestly, whatever country that can afford the oil will get served first.

Yeah, but China and India are fully capable of purchasing oil. Especially China.
Both of their economies are growing and very rapidly, also.

The government in china owns every single business there is there.

Ok... What does this have to do with their ability to purchase oil? Nothing... Just because they're communist and they have a different way of running their government than the United States does, that doesn't mean that their ability to purchase oil is impaired.

The US would be one of few countries that would get served before others.

Yeah, after China and India do so first.

As I said before, the US has more oil than the middle east. So we don't have to worry as much as other country's.

Dude, no we don't. Again, you're just spitting out random shit that's not true. Please get your facts straight and you'll know that we're ranked 13th in the world in terms of how much oil we have. (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html) Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, UAE, and Qatar are ALL apart of the Middle Eastern region and they ALL have more proven oil reserves than the US.

[Syntax]

It's simple. China and India have millions upon millions of more people than we do. More people means more money. And plus they'd be served first if we had a world oil crisis just because they have more people. They're demand for oil is expected to rise by 50% by 2030 because of their rising populations and flourishing economies.


Unless properly explained, I still don't see the connection between more people and more money. Sure, you have the government taxing local business, companies, professionals etc. but what are the other things that connect more people equals more money?

The way I see it in China's case is that if the population increases, then the consumption of energy (whether oil, electrical etc.) increases. If the consumption of energy increases, then the demand for energy resources also increases. A large population demands a lot of energy, the government is then forced to spend more on that energy the population is demanding. Combine that increased expenditure in energy with those of maintaining the military, the building of infrastructure, investing in local companies and GOCs, healthcare, food supply and the like, it'll be more like this:

More people + maintaining the military + infrastructure building + investments + healthcare + food sustenance + more energy demands = less money.

I don't mean that China is going to be bankrupt by these financial burdens nor will their economy go back to zero. Yes, it's true that China is one of the rising economies of Asia but all I'm saying is that China will have less instead of more if we apply "More people = more money".

According to this, China really earns less than more in terms of government spending. (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/government-budget which goes to) Try reading this (http://www.energybulletin.net/node/48677) and this too. (http://www.iea.org/Speech%5C2012%5CBirol_2nd_set_oil_slides.pdf)

[Guillermo]

The way I see it in China's case is that if the population increases, then the consumption of energy (whether oil, electrical etc.) increases. If the consumption of energy increases, then the demand for energy resources also increases. A large population demands a lot of energy, the government is then forced to spend more on that energy the population is demanding.

You pretty much hit it right here. This is what I was trying to say. The more people = the more money to spend on oil that China uses to provide to its country. You went a little farther out there which is not what I was trying to say. But yeah, when you get more complex with it, there's more stuff like military, healthcare, food, etc. And also, a point I'm trying to make is that China's economy is rising. Obviously, yeah, the United States is the current superpower in the world as of now. But this will change and could change very soon. Especially with all the jobs that the US is sending over there and all the debt we have due to trade in China.

[InfinantSilence]

The question is not "if", it's not even "when" anymore. Look around people. The dollar has been downgraded, we're trillions in debt to china, our economy is slowly degrading, our inferstructure is all but gone. The way i ssee it is, China is like one of those spiders that lives underground. And America is the helpless little beetle on top of its hole. One day the spider will strike. And the beetle will go down. I'm not saying it'll be in my lifetime. Infact I doubt it will be in my lifetime, but it will happen within 150 years.

[TheBigUnit]

EVERYBODY... U do know chinas economy is starting to toneutralize rite? Sure not no where as bad as us but their housing market is sh.t and like here every chinese parent wants their kids not to be factory workers but to have a proffesional job, companies are leaving china and either coming backor moving to places like india and kenya

[darkwoon]

The US has more oil than the middle east. We're just waiting till the middle east runs out so they come running to us (from what I've heard from my economics teacher and history teacher)
Oil is definitely not going to be the strategical resource on the long run. Partly because alternative exists in petrochemy (coal and natural gas being the most common, but not the only ones). Partly because owning more oil doesn't mean it is economically interesting to extract it. This is what happened to Northern France with coal: it still holds huge coal reserves, but they are difficult to access, so it is cheaper to import it or to switch to other energy and petrochemical sources.

As of right now, we're the strongest super power in the world with the best and strongest military in the world...
And the absolute military strength of a country doesn't matter. It is the capacity to wage a war, hold it for years, and reach its objectives that matters. Recent wars lead by the US are a clear demonstration of its military and social shortcomings.

[Syntax]

EVERYBODY... U do know chinas economy is starting to toneutralize rite? Sure not no where as bad as us but their housing market is sh.t and like here every chinese parent wants their kids not to be factory workers but to have a proffesional job, companies are leaving china and either coming backor moving to places like india and kenya

Any evidence to sustain this argument of yours?

[TheBigUnit]

Any evidence to sustain this argument of yours?

Actually yes, uncle work for company tht make stuff in china, they're planning to move out soon bc the wages r getting higher, he was there last week

[ImCoolBeans]

OP request. :locked: