Presuming I'm an American voter, can you make me vote for Romney?

[azorne]

I've looked at both sides, and I don't get how Mitt Romney has any support. Because I haven't lived in America for long, I'd like you to explain to me how having Romney at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue will impact your life, and the life of others around you for the better.

[Professional Russian]

obama not being an american and fucking up real bad. If you ask id say fuckem both we need someone who wont be persuaded by money. who wont let corruption to him. who wont fuck up. both of the guys running for presidents are jokes, idiots, i dont know how they even got into the race. id rather Donald fucking trump for president. THey are both fuck ups and dont deserve the title of president of The United States Of America. Romney will fuck the economy more and make more unemployment and obama will fuck the economy some more and make more unemployment and he'll let illegal immigrants in.

[azorne]

Obama is American, he was born in the States. I don't understand why everybody calls him a Muslim.

[Professional Russian]

Obama is American, he was born in the States. I don't understand why everybody calls him a Muslim.

the kenyan embassador or some country like that is claiming obama was born there

[Manjusri]

the kenyan embassador or some country like that is claiming obama was born there

Not to mention we've never been supplied with a real birth certificate of Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama.

Obama is too caught up in the spotlight, he handles his presidency with fame, not responsibility. He's spent more money on vacation than any president before him. Same goes for his budget, way more money has flown out the window with him in office than all of the 43 presidents before him added together.

[FreeFall]

Oh my god Obama and his vacations. Every time I looked I swear he and the family were off somewhere enjoying down time. Bothers me so much.
Frankly, I'm an American and don't understand the support for Romney. Maybe it's because I'm strongly against what he's majorly known for. I do like he wants to up our military defense, but I remember hearing something about him wishing to intervene in Russia to help with their democracy? He's too flip-floppy too. in 1994 he was pro-choice, then he was aggressively pro-life, now he's like what ever let the people chose it's not the law's place.
I'm also interest in seeing the other side of the fence though, those who support him.

[Jupiter]

in this thread... why NOT to vote for obama, instead of reasons to vote for romney

[Professional Russian]

Not to mention we've never been supplied with a real birth certificate of Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama.

I thought his name was barry? yeah ive said that before. they burned that ground because they believe that the birth certificate shown was real

[Twilly F. Sniper]

He wont really. Voting for both sides is freaking unreasonable.

[huginnmuninn]

This is America you can't make somebody vote for someone. So I'm going with no on this one.
Vote for whichever candidate has beliefs that mostly adhere to your personal beliefs and unless someone gives you a damn good argument about why your beliefs are inherently wrong don't change how you feel just because of what other people say. That's how it's supposed to work.

[Cicero]

Not to mention we've never been supplied with a real birth certificate of Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama.

Obama is too caught up in the spotlight, he handes his presidency with fame, not responsibility. He's spent more money on vacation than any president before him. Same goes for his budget, way more money has flown out the window with him in office than all of the 43 presidents before him added together.

yep, hes more of a celebrity. his wife and kids enjoying shopping sprees in france. damn, theyre living a vacation. every other political candidate has provided a birthcertificate except him. AND Obama is asking Romney to supply a source of what he has given in taxes for the past ten years. while when obama was running for president, he provided no tax source or anything of what hes done in taxes or made per year. (i forgot the word for the source of where you show what you have given in taxes, i guess a tax reciet? or however its spelled)

Sorry Michelle Obama, it looks like your "Hard earned American Tax money" credit card is going to expire this year (hopefully). Looks like no shopping sprees in France, wasting millions of dollars for Airforce 1 and thousands of dollars a night in protection and staying in the best hotels in the city. Its one thing if obama had to go to france for business or whatever, its another to send his wife and kids there just to go shopping. I respect the fact that the first lady and president have to have designer clothing, the queen of england of bentleys and such. so why cant the worlds most powerful couple have a few nice things? but i hate the fact that they go to paris or france in general, just to go shopping.

[Amnesiac]

obama not being an american

Dude.

and fucking up real bad.

Any examples you'd like to give, or are you going to keep speaking in generalizations?

If you ask id say fuckem both we need someone who wont be persuaded by money. who wont let corruption to him. who wont fuck up.

I agree, I guess.

both of the guys running for presidents are jokes, idiots, i dont know how they even got into the race. id rather Donald fucking trump for president.

You want someone who won't be "persuaded by money," and you name Donald Trump?

THey are both fuck ups and dont deserve the title of president of The United States Of America. Romney will fuck the economy more and make more unemployment and obama will fuck the economy some more and make more unemployment and he'll let illegal immigrants in.

Okay, that's a little over the top. I don't trust politicians either, and I'm fairly certain that both candidates are mediocre, but neither the election of Romney or the re-election of Obama will lead to economic collapse. As for unemployment, I'd argue that's not entirely under the government's control.

the kenyan embassador or some country like that is claiming obama was born there

Source? No? Moving on.

Not to mention we've never been supplied with a real birth certificate of Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama.

Sigh. It never ends.

Obama is too caught up in the spotlight, he handles his presidency with fame, not responsibility. He's spent more money on vacation than any president before him.

It's easy to point to things like vacation budgets, but in the end it's nothing more than hyperbole and has nothing to do with the President's actual performance. Why does Obama's vacation time matter? Obviously, it's not impeding on his job performance. He still spends the vast majority of his time working in politics, just like every President before him. I don't care about vacations, because it's a tiny amount of money compared to the government's operating budget as a whole, and it's too easy to pick at. Complaining about vacations is just an easy way to avoid talking about the issues.

Same goes for his budget, way more money has flown out the window with him in office than all of the 43 presidents before him added together.

Source?

Oh my god Obama and his vacations. Every time I looked I swear he and the family were off somewhere enjoying down time. Bothers me so much.

Okay, we can stop talking (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-13/politics/31335246_1_obama-family-vacation-time-president-obama) about vacations (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-20093801.html) now.

yep, hes more of a celebrity. his wife and kids enjoying shopping sprees in france. damn, theyre living a vacation.

Oh, please. I couldn't give two shits if his family is happy. They're already millionaires anyway. The President has spent just as much time on vacation as his predecessors (http://open.salon.com/blog/mpbulletin/2012/04/13/jetting_around_obamas_vacation_record). Stop with the "elitist!" accusations. It's just an easy way to get people to ignore the actual issues.

every other political candidate has provided a birthcertificate except him.

Jesus Christ VT, what's up with the sudden Birtherism? This issue was settled years ago. He's provided the necessary information. You can take your tin-foil hat off now.

AND Obama is asking Romney to supply a source of what he has given in taxes for the past ten years. while when obama was running for president, he provided no tax source or anything of what hes done in taxes or made per year. (i forgot the word for the source of where you show what you have given in taxes, i guess a tax reciet? or however its spelled)

Cool story. (http://www.barackobama.com/tax-returns/)

Sorry Michelle Obama, it looks like your "Hard earned American Tax money" credit card is going to expire this year (hopefully).

Oh, how witty. Any source for that information? No? Moving on.

Looks like no shopping sprees in France, wasting millions of dollars for Airforce 1 and thousands of dollars a night in protection and staying in the best hotels in the city.

Source? Also, since when is "wating millions of dollars for airforce 1" suddenly shocking? As if every president for the past 40 years hasn't done the same. Staying in the best hotels? Gee, that must be unheard of for a family that makes millions of dollars a year.

Its one thing if obama had to go to france for business or whatever, its another to send his wife and kids there just to go shopping.

I FIND YOUR LACK OF SOURCES DISTURBING.

I respect the fact that the first lady and president have to have designer clothing, the queen of england of bentleys and such. so why cant the worlds most powerful couple have a few nice things? but i hate the fact that they go to paris or france in general, just to go shopping.

All in all, you have provided no evidence that taxpayer money was spent on the trip to Paris, which was for a campaign fundraiser (meaning that it's doubtful even a cent of your taxpayer dollars funded his trip), and you have yet to explain why this even matters in the first place. How is any of this relevant? Why can't we talk about issues that actually matter?

[Skyhawk]

I was going to reply like LithiumAneurysm, but he beat me to it. :P

Romney's a puppet, hasn't anyone seen how many times he's contradicted himself?

[Truth]

Both Obama and Romney will ruin your country. I'm quite glad I'm a Canadian right now.

Must suck, you had a chance at actually saving your country with Ron Paul....

[azorne]

Alright, enough bickering, lets look at some hard figures.

In 2008, after the DJIA tanked, Obama pumped a trillion and a half into the economy. Because of extensive layoffs across industries, unemployment ballooned. However, due to Obama, its reduced considerably. (http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e4u00gba7e) Keep in mind that barring drastic measures, the government has very weak tools to check unemployment, short of pumping more money...something America just doesn't want to do.

Next, Obamacare, the scapegoat of the Republicans. Medicare in the United States covers almost half the expense of major surgeries. And the CBO predicts that the number of uninsured Americans will drop to less than a tenth of the population by 2020 if PPACA is implemented in full.

Also, Obama knows what freedom means. Ever heard of legalizing homosexual marriage and abortion? Sure, Romney wants to spend more on the military. But for a country up to its eyes in debt, (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) I don't think an aggressive military is such a good idea. Not when you're already nuclear.

Finally, you can't judge him by his vacations. You have no idea how hard the man works and unless you understand that regulating the world's biggest economy is no piece of cake, you just won't get why he deserves those vacations. Besides, the man hardly has any time for his daughters, save for a trip or two to Vail or Paris.

Now tell me why Romney is better.

[Cicero]

Dude.



Any examples you'd like to give, or are you going to keep speaking in generalizations?



I agree, I guess.



You want someone who won't be "persuaded by money," and you name Donald Trump?



Okay, that's a little over the top. I don't trust politicians either, and I'm fairly certain that both candidates are mediocre, but neither the election of Romney or the re-election of Obama will lead to economic collapse. As for unemployment, I'd argue that's not entirely under the government's control.



Source? No? Moving on.



Sigh. It never ends.



It's easy to point to things like vacation budgets, but in the end it's nothing more than hyperbole and has nothing to do with the President's actual performance. Why does Obama's vacation time matter? Obviously, it's not impeding on his job performance. He still spends the vast majority of his time working in politics, just like every President before him. I don't care about vacations, because it's a tiny amount of money compared to the government's operating budget as a whole, and it's too easy to pick at. Complaining about vacations is just an easy way to avoid talking about the issues.



Source?



Okay, we can stop talking (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-13/politics/31335246_1_obama-family-vacation-time-president-obama) about vacations (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-20093801.html) now.



Oh, please. I couldn't give two shits if his family is happy. They're already millionaires anyway. The President has spent just as much time on vacation as his predecessors (http://open.salon.com/blog/mpbulletin/2012/04/13/jetting_around_obamas_vacation_record). Stop with the "elitist!" accusations. It's just an easy way to get people to ignore the actual issues.



Jesus Christ VT, what's up with the sudden Birtherism? This issue was settled years ago. He's provided the necessary information. You can take your tin-foil hat off now.



Cool story. (http://www.barackobama.com/tax-returns/)



Oh, how witty. Any source for that information? No? Moving on.



Source? Also, since when is "wating millions of dollars for airforce 1" suddenly shocking? As if every president for the past 40 years hasn't done the same. Staying in the best hotels? Gee, that must be unheard of for a family that makes millions of dollars a year.



I FIND YOUR LACK OF SOURCES DISTURBING.



All in all, you have provided no evidence that taxpayer money was spent on the trip to Paris, which was for a campaign fundraiser (meaning that it's doubtful even a cent of your taxpayer dollars funded his trip), and you have yet to explain why this even matters in the first place. How is any of this relevant? Why can't we talk about issues that actually matter?

Spending Spree at The olympics. obamas spend 50,000 dollars at marthas vineyard for 9 days. the olympic spending spree was used with tax payer money (http://www.examiner.com/article/michelle-obama-spending-sprees-with-taxpayer-money-continue)

nice try, but obama doesnt make 'millions' of dollars a year, he makes $560,000 a year, you might like to think thats millions of dollars a year, but thats not even close. stop making stuff up with no sources of what he makes, nice try though :) (http://www.forbes.com/profile/barack-obama/)

[azorne]

So what? That's still a comfortable income. Obama can afford to put his family into comfortable hotels.

[Cicero]

So what? That's still a comfortable income. Obama can afford to put his family into comfortable hotels.

I dont want them in comfortable hotels on tax money. If you get payed $100,000 a year, thats a comfortable income. Even at $75,000 a year.

[azorne]

How exactly do I put this? The pricier the hotel, the better the guests, and the better the guests, the safer it is. As opposed to blowing hundreds of thousands each day for security on a trip. Now do you understand?

[Cicero]

How exactly do I put this? The pricier the hotel, the better the guests, and the better the guests, the safer it is. As opposed to blowing hundreds of thousands each day for security on a trip. Now do you understand?

uhh, we still have to pay for him to stay at the hotel WITH SECURITY, which is called the secret service, wherever theyre family goes. They have to have secret service, now do you understand? Oh, the more expensive the hotel doesnt mean the more security it has. I've been in very, very expensive hotels, and theres not much security as opposed to a average hotel. Now do you get it? Hotel Del Coronado didnt have any more or any less security than the Hyatt hotels.

[Blhhh8980]

I really dont care for politics but it looks like romney is digging himself a hole and its not obama's fault that bush left the economy bad.

[huginnmuninn]

I was going to reply like LithiumAneurysm, but he beat me to it. :P

Romney's a puppet, hasn't anyone seen how many times he's contradicted himself?

Obama used to be against gay marriage but then he changed his mind during the last election...I wonder why that could happen ;)

[Professional Russian]

I really dont care for politics but it looks like romney is digging himself a hole and its not obama's fault that bush left the economy bad.

Yes just like obama blame bush. it wasnt bush it was clinton he fucked up the economy stop useing george bush for the economy. it wasnt him

[Cicero]

I really dont care for politics but it looks like romney is digging himself a hole and its not obama's fault that bush left the economy bad.

I find it funny, while obama has been in office, the economy has been considered as a recession. while bush was in office, it wasnt considered a recession. how weird. which btw he was in for 2 terms. if he did so bad, then why did he get 2 terms in office? how is romney digging himself a hole? you have provided no proof of how he is doing it.

[Manjusri]

Source?

* End of fiscal year 2008, when the accrued debt under the 43 presidents was $5.851 trillion, to the end of fiscal 2012, when the debt is projected to reach $11.881 trillion. Yes, more than the previous 43 presidents.

* Obama inauguration, when the accrued debt was $6.307 trillion, to the end of fiscal year 2013, when the debt is projected to reach $12.784 trillion. Yes, more than the previous 43 presidents.

* End of fiscal year 2009, when the accrued debt was $7.506 trillion, to end of fiscal year 2013, when the debt is projected to reach $12.784 trillion. No, not as much as the previous 43 presidents.

Original article: Here (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/10/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obama-will-add-more-debt-4/)

Which i found via this article: Here (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obama-has-racked-much-debt-almost/)

That website ruled the claim that obama has spent more money than the past 43 presidents combined mostly true.

[WaffleSingSong]

Yes just like obama blame bush. it wasnt bush it was clinton he fucked up the economy stop useing george bush for the economy. it wasnt him

You sure? Clinton provided great job growth and was not a bad economist. The only real stain in his presidency was the affair, but everyone looks over that now and days.

Anywhom, I hate Obama, and I used to hate Romney too. However, When Paul Ryan came in, My opinion now of Romney is...

... Appalling.

Romney was not an evil evil person when he ran alone, but now as he got that despotic, ultra-conservative butthole as his running mate I would put 1000 votes in the Obama box anyday of the week.

[Amnesiac]

Spending Spree at The olympics. obamas spend 50,000 dollars at marthas vineyard for 9 days. the olympic spending spree was used with tax payer money (http://www.examiner.com/article/michelle-obama-spending-sprees-with-taxpayer-money-continue)

Okay, that checks out.

nice try, but obama doesnt make 'millions' of dollars a year, he makes $560,000 a year, you might like to think thats millions of dollars a year, but thats not even close. stop making stuff up with no sources of what he makes, nice try though :) (http://www.forbes.com/profile/barack-obama/)

I misspoke. I meant to refer to Obama's net worth, which is around $12 million (https://www.google.com/webhp?rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS371US377&sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=1&tok=-X72N52XwX4RysIurAHyXQ&cp=10&gs_id=d&xhr=t&q=obama+net+worth&pf=p&safe=off&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS371US377&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=obama+net+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=279f0a5cecb4a65a&biw=1920&bih=1019&ion=1). He has had an income in the millions in years past – for example, in 2010 the Obama family netted around $1.7 million (http://www.scribd.com/doc/89109862/President-Obama-s-2010-Tax-Return).

However, what you have completely failed to address in your reply is why any of this matters. I hardly find it surprising that some taxpayer money is used so the Obama family can stay in comfortable hotels and things like that. The White House is budgeted with extra money (from taxpayers, by the way) to fund things like this, and it's obviously a trend that's been going on for decades. Let's not forget that Bush spent an estimated $20 million visiting his Crawford Ranch. But why should any of us care? Whining about things like vacations and trips that are a drop in the bucket when it comes to government spending is a waste of time.

I dont want them in comfortable hotels on tax money. If you get payed $100,000 a year, thats a comfortable income. Even at $75,000 a year.

Why does it matter? Hasn't it always been tradition that the President and his family travel in style? Aren't they representative of the American people?

I find it funny, while obama has been in office, the economy has been considered as a recession. while bush was in office, it wasnt considered a recession. how weird.

Okay, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're implying that the recession was caused completely by Obama. This logic is flawed. The events that caused the recession were a result of a combination of factors, partially influenced by flawed government regulations under both parties and other factors that the President isn't responsible for. Is this seriously how you rationalize Obama's presidency?

which btw he was in for 2 terms. if he did so bad, then why did he get 2 terms in office?

Bush didn't win the 2000 election. If the recount in Florida hadn't been stopped by an arguably biased Supreme Court, Gore would have won.

* End of fiscal year 2008, when the accrued debt under the 43 presidents was $5.851 trillion, to the end of fiscal 2012, when the debt is projected to reach $11.881 trillion. Yes, more than the previous 43 presidents.

I'm not surprised. Good source.

* Obama inauguration, when the accrued debt was $6.307 trillion, to the end of fiscal year 2013, when the debt is projected to reach $12.784 trillion. Yes, more than the previous 43 presidents.

* End of fiscal year 2009, when the accrued debt was $7.506 trillion, to end of fiscal year 2013, when the debt is projected to reach $12.784 trillion. No, not as much as the previous 43 presidents.

Original article: Here (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/10/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obama-will-add-more-debt-4/)

Which i found via this article: Here (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obama-has-racked-much-debt-almost/)

That website ruled the claim that obama has spent more money than the past 43 presidents combined mostly true.

That all checks out. Interesting. It definitely can't be deined that Obama's presidency is an expensive one, and I blame both parties and their inability to compromise for this mess. Really, it's Congress that's digging the hole.

[abdheuuuchjc]

I'm a heavy Republican and i don't like Romney much, but there's no way he can do worse than Obama.

[TheBigUnit]

Well romneys mormon

[Silicate Wielder]

Yes I agree before obama was elected we were just floating down then obama came along as presedent and started using up the parachute for un-neccesary things. he really is more of a celeberity than a president. I would vot for romney if I were of legal age to do that.

[azorne]

Well, a few months down the line its interesting to see who won this debate ;)

[StoppingTime]

Well, a few months down the line its interesting to see who won this debate ;)

If you'd like to have a discussion about this topic, make a new thread instead of posting in an old one. :locked: