God Exists. Proven by Logic and Reason

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Here are some quotes I found that pretty much prove that God exists. If you can dispute what they say.....well I highly doubt that you can.

"If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… … Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before. If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else." - Douglas Wilson

"My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." - C.S. Lewis

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset." - C.S. Lewis

"A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process."

"Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe." - Peter Kreeft

"A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is... A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people, in one sense, know very little about badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in." - C. S. Lewis

"If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped." - Evelyn Underhill

"An utterly fascinating illustration of this duping of ourselves is the latest arts building opened at Ohio State University, the Wexner Center for the Performing Arts, another one of our chimerical exploits in the name of intellectual advance. Newsweek branded this building "America's first deconstructionist building." It's white scaffolding, red brick turrets, and Colorado grass pods evoke a double take. But puzzlement only intensifies when you enter the building, for inside you encounter stairways that go nowhere, pillars that hang from the ceiling without purpose, and angled surfaces configured to create a sense of vertigo. The architect, we are duly informed, designed this building to reflect life itself-senseless and incoherent-and the "capriciousness of the rules that organize the built world." When the rationale was explained to me, I had just one question: Did he do the same with the foundation?

The laughter in response to my question unmasked the double standard our deconstructionists espouse. And that is precisely the double standard of atheism! It is possible to dress up and romanticize our bizarre experiments in social restructuring while disavowing truth or absolutes. But one dares not play such deadly games with the foundations of good thinking." - Ravi Zacharias

"God exist whether or not men may choose to believe in Him. The reason why many people do not believe in God is not so much that it is intellectually impossible to believe in God, but because belief in God forces that thoughtful person to face the fact that he is accountable to such a God." - Robert A. Laidlaw

"Occam's razor states that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything, however, the simple theory must be able to account for or explain what needs explaining. It's not enough to have a simpler theory if you can't account for anything. Though we shouldn't add entities beyond what's needed, we also should not subtract entities beyond what's needed." - Paul Manata

"Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God." - Tom Stoppard

"Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior." - Vox Day

"Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - G.K. Chesterton

"The most valued attributes of mankind do not come naturally to the human animal; character borrows from the divine." - A.S.A. Jones

If anyone of you can dispute what these simple statements of logic and reason say, well then I would love to hear it.

[root]

tl;dr

God does not exist. Dunno how you can use 'logic and reason' to prove a god.

tbh, it looks like you just massed copy and pasted shit from the net.

I use to believe but then reality hit me and god just does not exist.

atheism is for people who see truth and don't need the emotional reassurance that " a god" is watching over them

[SaxyHaloBeast]

If you would read and actually think about any of these quotes you wouldn't still be atheist or anti theist. Trust me. You can't dispute what these say.

[Professional Russian]

hahahahahahahahahah your still not changeing my mind though. sorry try again next year

[root]

If you would read and actually think about any of these quotes you wouldn't still be atheist or anti theist. Trust me. You can't dispute what these say.

i dont like reading and russian probably didnt read the entire thing either (but i could be wrong)

i can dispute over anything.

I'm not an anti-theist i just think you guys waste time believing in this fairytale

[StoppingTime]

Why are you preaching quotations about religion here? A better question, why argue religion at all?
Atheists, anti-theists, or just about anyone who has a different religion than you will never agree. Just like you would never agree if someone started to show "proof" that God does not exist. So why argue? All it does, really, is make people look down on those who are religious even more. People don't want to be preached to about topics which they will most likely never agree to.
There is no way, in the eyes of most people, that God can be proven or disproven. If you believe in a God, and you believe it's able to be proven, great. If you don't, great. But why argue over something which can never have a definite outcome?

[huginnmuninn]

Your "logic" is based on a few principles repeated. One of them is that life has meaning which can't be proven and everything may be accidental. Another is that morality is derived from religion. If that were true then slavery would be legal and women would be ruled by their husbands. If we don't get morality from religion then the twin towers are still standing and people wouldn't have been tortured and killed during the inquisition. Some of your points aren't really points at all just simple statements that rely upon God being real to give any credit.

Religion relies on faith, if you try to prove it then you are missing the point

[root]

Why are you preaching quotations about religion here? A better question, why argue religion at all?
Atheists, anti-theists, or just about anyone who has a different religion than you will never agree. Just like you would never agree if someone started to show "proof" that God does not exist. So why argue? All it does, really, is make people look down on those who are religious even more. People don't want to be preached to about topics which they will most likely never agree to.
There is no way, in the eyes of most people, that God can be proven or disproven. If you believe in a God, and you believe it's able to be proven, great. If you don't, great. But why argue over something which can never have a definite outcome?

cause he's a missionary...lmao

[Professional Russian]

i dont like reading and russian probably didnt read the entire thing either (but i could be wrong)

No your right because after logic and reason i nearly died laughing.

You not going to change an atheist let alone by quotes.

[FreeFall]

Shockingly I read it all, and now I'm just sitting here thinking "Well at least they didn't pull these from the bible."

I saw no logic or reason in there, not that any of that's going to convert me. What I saw was pondering and people coming to their own conclusions that make sense to them. Frankly what I read were quotes praising God and looking down on those that refuse him, because they don't understand how one can refuse what's so obvious to them. Just like some are puzzled as to how one can believe in what we refuse. That one comparing us to soda, I couldn't even really take it that seriously.

"Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God." - Tom Stoppard
That's not even proof of your god, it's the most lacking in logic and reason and personally seems more like a stab at us nonbelievers. Almost like a 'well you don't believe so you're stupid nyeh nyeh nyeh'.

[root]

if god exists, he's a major bitch...

[Jess]

how in the world are these proof for a god?

sorry, I'll stay atheist. there's no way I'm believing in a god who wouldn't even help the poor and suffering (he has to have us mortal humans do it)

[root]

damn it, some guy gave me some giant plus rep from this thread. i lost 2 of those red blocks.... :(

[Jess]

That's not even proof of your god, it's the most lacking in logic and reason and personally seems more like a stab at us nonbelievers. Almost like a 'well you don't believe so you're stupid nyeh nyeh nyeh'.

yeah that quote is definitely not proof

damn it, some guy gave me some giant plus rep from this thread. i lost 2 of those red blocks.... :(

you want to have those red blocks?

[Jupiter]

i like the quotes, but i don't think it honestly proves anything. sorry. :/

[root]

yeah that quote is definitely not proof



you want to have those red blocks?

it was you? thanks but yeah, red is a nicer color. green is the color of my dad's eyes...dont like green. also red is the color of uv light. same uv light that gave him skin cancer.

[Professional Russian]

it was you? thanks but yeah, red is a nicer color. green is the color of my dad's eyes...dont like green. also red is the color of uv light. same uv light that gave him skin cancer.

Uv light is purple. Damn it i have to stop gettin off topic

[Clawhammer]

Here's an idea, how about we keep this thread clean and orderly? There are some very interesting quotes in there. I haven't seen a single person actually respond to any of the points made.

Why have a civilization any more if we are no longer interested in being civilized?

I, for one, think that this raises some very interesting points at the base of matters. Thanks for sharing them.

[root]

Uv light is purple. Damn it i have to stop gettin off topic

uv light is blue and red on the visible light spectrum...stop being a идиот and just go along with it.

[Professional Russian]

Here's an idea, how about we keep this thread clean and orderly? There are some very interesting quotes in there. I haven't seen a single person actually respond to any of the points made.

Why have a civilization any more if we are no longer interested in being civilized?

I, for one, think that this raises some very interesting points at the base of matters. Thanks for sharing them.

Quote aint changing any atheists minds. quote arent worth shit unless theres proof with them and there is no proof to go them because theres no proof of a god because god doesn't exist.

uv light is blue and red on the visible light spectrum...stop being a идиот and just go along with it.

i may be an idiot but there is one thing i am not and that sir is an idiot :P

[SaxyHaloBeast]

When I posted these quotes, I didn't mean to convert anybody. I just wanted to get people thinking. I wanted the people who doubt God's existence to atleast see why the majority of people do and why so many religious people defend their beliefs so passionately. The idea of God makes perfect sense to a lot of people (including me) and these quotes support those beliefs. I just wanted to get everyone thinking.

[Professional Russian]

When I posted these quotes, I didn't mean to convert anybody. I just wanted to get people thinking. I wanted the people who doubt God's existence to atleast see why the majority of people do and why so many religious people defend their beliefs so passionately. The idea of God makes perfect sense to a lot of people (including me) and these quotes support those beliefs. I just wanted to get everyone thinking.

IT doesnt make sense the bible(According to other members) contradicts it self. There is no scientific proof. im not going to believe something that was rewritten like 10 times.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

It was never rewritten. The Bible is a collection of records from different prophets and kings. It has been translated countless times and inteprated by several different religions, but it has never been rewritten. Something that has been translated that many times is bound to have mistakes, but the original meaning is still true and is still up to intepratation.

[root]

i may be an idiot but there is one thing i am not and that sir is an idiot :P

took u that long to find a translator? Arschloch

It was never rewritten. The Bible is a collection of records from different prophets and kings. It has been translated countless times and inteprated by several different religions, but it has never been rewritten. Something that has been translated that many times is bound to have mistakes, but the original meaning is still true and is still up to intepratation.

oh that's fucking bullshit. it was first written in greek at some place in spain or something where everyyone held a conference about what should be in the bible. it was written after jesus' death. lol, dan brown readers ftw

[Professional Russian]

It has been translated countless times and inteprated by several different religions, but it has never been rewritten.

if someone translates it they can put what ever the hell they want in it and anyone would believe. if i were to "Translate" it i could little minute differences in there that no one would notice the difference because they're so small but they'll follow what it says.


took u that long to find a translator? Arschloch

No ive just been to lazy to go to google translate and copy and paste it.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

So the original Bible is still correct, but certain people corrupted it and developed their own version that isn't true. The most correct is the King James version. It is the closest to the original. And the Bible wasn't written in Spain or Greece at a conference after Jesus's death. The first five books or so were written by revelation by Moses and then written by succeeding prophets and kings. Get your facts straight.

[root]

So the original Bible is still correct, but certain people corrupted it and developed their own version that isn't true. The most correct is the King James version. It is the closest to the original. And the Bible wasn't written in Spain or Greece at a conference after Jesus's death. The first five books or so were written by revelation by Moses and then written by succeeding prophets and kings. Get your facts straight.

some wannabe catholic priest told me it so my facts are pretty straight.

the first bible was written in greece after the fall of rome. while all of western europe was in anarchy and playing knight of the round table, the greek orthodox made a bible. then when western europe came out of the middle ages, the yohan gutenburg guy made a printing thing and printed the bible in latin for everyone in western europe. got it?

[Professional Russian]

So the original Bible is still correct, but certain people corrupted it and developed their own version that isn't true. The most correct is the King James version. It is the closest to the original. And the Bible wasn't written in Spain or Greece at a conference after Jesus's death. The first five books or so were written by revelation by Moses and then written by succeeding prophets and kings. Get your facts straight.

you cant trust people that rewrote it. There is no correct bible then if a bunch of people sat down and wrote it they put what they thought together and put it in there knowing people would think its the "word of god" which its not and they'd be dumb enough to do what it said.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I will believe what I believe because to me it is the truth. You want to know what I know to be the truth? Read the King James Bible. Read the Book of Mormon. Think about the quotes I posted. Moroni 10:5 "And by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things". If you don't care, don't bother. That's my spill.

[Professional Russian]

From what ive heard the book of mormon is really fucked up.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Then what you have heard is wrong. Don't listen to other people to decide your own opinion. Form it for yourself. But I bet you don't even care enough.

[Professional Russian]

Then what you have heard is wrong. Don't listen to other people to decide your own opinion. Form it for yourself. But I bet you don't even care enough.


No i dont care about it because god doesnt exist the bible is a book of lies. God is a delusion for people that want hope to think that all good things will become. its a lie i dont see how people believe in it.

[deadpie]

I just wanted to get people thinking.

Yes because in a world where you exist like many people when they want to 'debate' or show 'logic' they think they're the only ones thinking. Do you know how ridiculous that idea is? Like someone who's an atheist hasn't given a thought about religion at all? I've seen studies that have shown atheists now more about religion then most religious people.

I wanted the people who doubt God's existence to atleast see why the majority of people do and why so many religious people defend their beliefs so passionately

Yes because you definitely are the one who can quote quotes for the majority of people who believe in a higher power. You definitely represent all of those people doing so. Wouldn't it make you somewhat anti-theist to act like all religious people are exactly the same like sheep? There's one thing I've learned over the past few months and that's that not all religious people are the same and are complete assholes. People believe for different reasons, not just one solid reason.

these quotes support those beliefs. I just wanted to get everyone thinking.

"proven by logic and reason"

All because you find quotes you agree with that does not make them solid evidence and 'proof' (in "logic and reason"ing) that God actually exists. It means absolutely nothing.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

IT doesnt make sense the bible(According to other members) contradicts it self. There is no scientific proof. im not going to believe something that was rewritten like 10 times.

These make no sense. This is trash.

[root]

These make no sense. This is trash.

yeah it does can u read? it's call american english...im jk

he's saying that the bible was translated and re-written many times and shit contradicts itself. like the pope telling us to call him father but jesus sayin that only father is your parent father and god the father.

[Gandalf]

Sorry yes I don't understand any of this but there is an amusing QI clip on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kndxsByVscA

[SaxyHaloBeast]

People are so quick to judge, to put themselves above others, to automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with them is an idiot who is to stupid to understand the 'supreme' knowledge that they have. There are two sides to every argument, just like there is always two sides to a coin, just like for light to exist so must darkness and for there to be good there must be bad. There is always opposition in everything, which means that there is always a choice. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Newton summed it up perfectly. The world works the same way. For everything, there is an opposite. These quotes I posted were supposed to get you thinking about what you think is right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral. One of the last quotes talked about having an open mind. It is good to have an open mind, but if it is always open, then nothing will stay. Keep an open mind, but make sure to close when you find what you believe in.

If you didn't understand this, I don't care. You'll probably think I'm stupid. You'll probably think that I'm some kind of bigoted, religious monster. But looking down upon those that you think you are smarter or better than makes you just as bigoted and stupid. I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's your choice to decide which one is right and which one is wrong.

[Professional Russian]

If you are going to use the word ignorant learn how to spell it. Please never add a 'z' to the end of a word to make it plural or make it into a contraction. The letter you are looking for is 's'. Using a 'z' makes you look ignorant.

edit: plus you sound like a hater

no useing a z makes you look like an idiot

[Jean Poutine]

Then what you have heard is wrong. Don't listen to other people to decide your own opinion. Form it for yourself. But I bet you don't even care enough.

"Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians." 1 Nephi 1:1

There is absolutely no genetic link between any language family native to North America and Semitic languages. Not a shade. If the language of these so-called Israelite Native Americans was from Semitic stock you would either have :

1) descended languages that can reliably be linked to the Semitic family
2) signs showing some form of impact on neighboring languages
3) artifact showing a writing system easily traced back to a Semitic origin

You have none of that. [email protected]

"And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of bore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper." 1 Nephi 18:25

There were no cows, oxen, asses or horses in America before European colonization.

http://www.irr.org/mit/smithsonian.html

And don't give me that bullshit about calling a deer a horse. They would have needed another word for "horse", if they knew the concept, because you can't keep the ambiguity in language forever. Either a horse is a horse and they invented a closely related word for a deer, or a deer becomes a horse but the horse is renamed.

And so on and so forth and so on and so forth.

ps : your quotes are hardly proof of anything at all.

pps :

But looking down upon those that you think you are smarter or better than makes you just as bigoted and stupid. I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's your choice to decide which one is right and which one is wrong.

Here are some quotes I found that pretty much prove that God exists. If you can dispute what they say.....well I highly doubt that you can.

If you would read and actually think about any of these quotes you wouldn't still be atheist or anti theist. Trust me. You can't dispute what these say.

Fuck off.

ppps :

"Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior."

The very definition of religion is borrowed ethics. Religion shapes one's character entirely according to the values it professes. Very religious people know no right or wrong outside of what is written (and yes, I've known people like this).

Atheism is thinking for yourself, setting up your own moral guide to follow. Most atheists will not think of utilitarianism or altruistic self-interest at all. It's simply the pursuit of the greatest result of free will : thinking for oneself.

There, debunked. Kindly go back under your bridge now.

[Mob Boss]

Here are some quotes I found that pretty much prove that God exists. If you can dispute what they say.....well I highly doubt that you can.

"If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… … Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before. If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else." - Douglas Wilson

"My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." - C.S. Lewis

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset." - C.S. Lewis

"A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process."

"Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe." - Peter Kreeft

"A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is... A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people, in one sense, know very little about badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in." - C. S. Lewis

"If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped." - Evelyn Underhill

"An utterly fascinating illustration of this duping of ourselves is the latest arts building opened at Ohio State University, the Wexner Center for the Performing Arts, another one of our chimerical exploits in the name of intellectual advance. Newsweek branded this building "America's first deconstructionist building." It's white scaffolding, red brick turrets, and Colorado grass pods evoke a double take. But puzzlement only intensifies when you enter the building, for inside you encounter stairways that go nowhere, pillars that hang from the ceiling without purpose, and angled surfaces configured to create a sense of vertigo. The architect, we are duly informed, designed this building to reflect life itself-senseless and incoherent-and the "capriciousness of the rules that organize the built world." When the rationale was explained to me, I had just one question: Did he do the same with the foundation?

The laughter in response to my question unmasked the double standard our deconstructionists espouse. And that is precisely the double standard of atheism! It is possible to dress up and romanticize our bizarre experiments in social restructuring while disavowing truth or absolutes. But one dares not play such deadly games with the foundations of good thinking." - Ravi Zacharias

"God exist whether or not men may choose to believe in Him. The reason why many people do not believe in God is not so much that it is intellectually impossible to believe in God, but because belief in God forces that thoughtful person to face the fact that he is accountable to such a God." - Robert A. Laidlaw

"Occam's razor states that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything, however, the simple theory must be able to account for or explain what needs explaining. It's not enough to have a simpler theory if you can't account for anything. Though we shouldn't add entities beyond what's needed, we also should not subtract entities beyond what's needed." - Paul Manata

"Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God." - Tom Stoppard

"Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior." - Vox Day

"Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - G.K. Chesterton

"The most valued attributes of mankind do not come naturally to the human animal; character borrows from the divine." - A.S.A. Jones

If anyone of you can dispute what these simple statements of logic and reason say, well then I would love to hear it.

Firstly, the bible is riddled from front to back with repetition and contradictions. Moral judgement isn't the result of some deity, or a book written by man. Moral judgment comes from measuing actions against some standard of good, so that gives no logical proof of God. And assuming atheists are intimidated by the idea of some God, which is basically what that quote from Tom Stoppard is implying, is ridiculous. I'm not atheist because I would have to answer to some God, I'm atheist because not once have I felt convinced that faith is all I need. Sorry, but faith is too shaky for me to trust, I'll stick with science, and proof. Thanks for taking the time, and I'm not trying to sound condescending, I'm just stating my opinion.

Are you saying you dont like us because were atheists? Ignaront asshole

Yeah, you really need to learn manners. He has the right to express his opinons just as much as the next guy. He never once said he didn't like anyone based on their beliefs, or lack thereof, rather quoted others who have spoken about atheism. If you're going to debate, at least say something worthwhile.

[Professional Russian]

ur a meen betch! Fuk u

If your going to be here debate about the subject.

[Abigballofdust]

Fuck u haterz godz fake an we all die lawl
Are you saying you dont like us because were atheists? Ignaront asshole
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/sirkillsalotlol/TROLLS-TROLLS-EVERYWHERE-1.jpg

uv light is blue and red on the visible light spectrum...stop being a идиот and just go along with it.
I gotta teach you optics now? It isn't blue nor red nor anything, it is invisible. It's called UV cos it's UltraViolet and you know why? Because its radiation is above the spectrum of visible light with its frequencies ranging higher than what our eyes identify as violet. You mention red, that's InfraRed (IR) and it's called like that cos its frequency ranges under what we see as the color red. But it's not red, it's invisible as well...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/EM_spectrum.svg

I will believe what I believe because to me it is the truth. You want to know what I know to be the truth? Read the King James Bible. Read the Book of Mormon. Think about the quotes I posted. Moroni 10:5 "And by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things". If you don't care, don't bother. That's my spill.
Why are you retreating? Posting in a discussion thread and then going back in your shell once you see you're not accepted by the most. Don't open one if the first place if you can't debate.

Don't listen to other people to decide your own opinion. Form it for yourself. But I bet you don't even care enough.
Said the one that posted a shitload of other people's opinions.

Then what you have heard is wrong.
Book of Mormon? (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/bom/abs/long.html)

[Professional Russian]

image (http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/sirkillsalotlol/TROLLS-TROLLS-EVERYWHERE-1.jpg)

That picture. THe Best

[Jean Poutine]

It was never rewritten. The Bible is a collection of records from different prophets and kings. It has been translated countless times and inteprated by several different religions, but it has never been rewritten. Something that has been translated that many times is bound to have mistakes, but the original meaning is still true and is still up to intepratation.

So the original Bible is still correct, but certain people corrupted it and developed their own version that isn't true. The most correct is the King James version. It is the closest to the original. And the Bible wasn't written in Spain or Greece at a conference after Jesus's death. The first five books or so were written by revelation by Moses and then written by succeeding prophets and kings. Get your facts straight.

You're an idiot. Know which book is closest to the Bible's original? The Torah. If you knew anything about anything you'd know that Hebrew is the language of the Old Testament and that the Torah is still written in the original, biblical Hebrew by Jews who have sticks so deep up their asses (they call themselves Soferim) that each Sefer Torah is handwritten, character by character, to perfection by said rectally impaled people - a single typo and the whole scroll's trashed. It has been so for as long as Judaism has existed.

The KJB has modified a lot of the original Hebrew in the OT to allow for a Christian interpretation by drawing from Latin sources instead of the Hebrew (read : they took what they liked and threw out what they didn't). If you want a real Old Testament, then you learn biblical Hebrew and you read it, or second best, you buy an English translation of the Torah for use in learning Judaism. Ask any Jew about the Christian Old Testament and they'll laugh at you. It's a terrible mess.

As for the New Testament, it was first written in Greek by authors we can't even retrace then translated and revised and retranslated and re-revised. The KJB didn't even have the source materials and basically translated from translations from translations and mixed source materials. Ask any translator : that's a fucking terrible idea.

Learn your own religion before lecturing others about it.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I'm done. It's exhausting to read these. I thought these quotes would spark some deep intellectual debates, but all I got were some offended atheists who can't even try to......you know what, nevermind. It's pointless. I'm done.

[Professional Russian]

I'm done. It's exhausting to read these. I thought these quotes would spark some deep intellectual debates, but all I got were some offended atheists who can't even try to......you know what, nevermind. It's pointless. I'm done.

dont forget the troll

[Korashk]

Here are some quotes I found that pretty much prove that God exists. If you can dispute what they say.....well I highly doubt that you can.
HAHAHA

Douglas Wilson
All that exists kind-of is just time and chance acting on matter. I say kind-of because not even physicists know how free-will works. Don't see how that somehow proves God. Not liking an alternative doesn't mean God exists.

C.S. Lewis [First]
Arguing that god doesn't exist because the universe is unjust is retarded because the reasoning is fallacious. Reversing that "logic" isn't any less fallacious.

C.S. Lewis [Second]
This is just the first quote with an anti-science tilt. You shouldn't believe "the resulting accident" it because they're telling you that's how it is. You should believe it because they're showing you that what they're saying is correct.

"A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process."
Nothing to do with god.

Peter Kreeft
We explain it that way because there's evidence that it happened like we say it did. Not because it's more likely. Probabilities mean nothing after events have already happened, because once they happen the chance that they've happened is 100%. This is what people like this guy and you just don't get. It doesn't matter how improbable the universe forming was because it literally had all the "time" in the world to happen. The universe might have failed to form ten quintillion times.

C. S. Lewis [Third]
Again, nothing to do with god.

Evelyn Underhill
Rhetoric, nothing more. People who believe in god will say this because that removes the burden they have to explain god.
"hurp too complicated lol, god is great"

Ravi Zacharias
This is called affirming the consequent.

1. If P, then Q
2. Q
3. Therefore P

Q is "truth and absolutes"
P is "god"

It's fallacious because the existence of truth and absolutes doesn't prove god.

Robert A. Laidlaw
No, the reason is it intellectually impossible to believe in god is because there is no defined version of god that isn't logically impossible and/or disproven, and aside from the defined versions there's no positive evidence for the existence of a divine being.

"...It's not enough to have a simpler theory if you can't account for anything..." - Paul Manata
This quote isn't explicitly dealing with the existence of gods, but its very clearly against it because of the part I left in. It's also a very good explanation of Occam's Razor.

"Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God." - Tom Stoppard
"Belief is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of a secular universe." - Korashk
"Forgotten were the elementary rules of logic, that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." - Richard Dawkins

Vox Day
The morality or lack thereof of atheists has nothing to do with whether or not god exists. Plus, I'm going to assume you're a Christian. If the Bible is to be believed your god is responsible for the most vile atrocities in the history of the planet. Hardly in a position to talk about morality and ethics.

"Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - G.K. Chesterton
I agree, which is why I'm an atheist.

"The most valued attributes of mankind do not come naturally to the human animal; character borrows from the divine." - A.S.A. Jones
"...that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." - Richard Dawkins

If anyone of you can dispute what these simple statements of logic and reason say, well then I would love to hear it.
If you think these are logical statements I can definitively say that you don't know what logic is

So the original Bible is still correct, but certain people corrupted it and developed their own version that isn't true. The most correct is the King James version. It is the closest to the original. And the Bible wasn't written in Spain or Greece at a conference after Jesus's death. The first five books or so were written by revelation by Moses and then written by succeeding prophets and kings. Get your facts straight.
The KJV isn't closest to the original, it's probably one of the furthest away because when they were writing it King James changed a bunch of stuff because he wanted to better control the religious population. The most "correct" version is the Hebrew version, followed by the literal version directly translated from the Hebrew one that explains translation decisions and includes alternative interpretations.

~~~

Uv light is purple. Damn it i have to stop gettin off topic
You're both wrong. UV light is outside of the visual spectrum of light and therefore doesn't have a color.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Korashk. Thank you for actually reading them and thinking your response 100% through. That's what I wanted.

[deadpie]

These quotes I posted were supposed to get you thinking about what you think is right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral.

Yes because an atheist can't decide what is right/wrong/good/band/moral/immoral because we're just a bunch of psychotic rapist apes eating guts all day. You really opened the light to me.

Keep an open mind, but make sure to close when you find what you believe in.

How can you possibly expect to win an argument when you say people should keep their personal beliefs square and closed up, then say 'by the way look at these quotes that say god exists by proven logic and reason because i agree with them'.

But looking down upon those that you think you are smarter or better than makes you just as bigoted and stupid. I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's your choice to decide which one is right and which one is wrong.

So pretty much your last defense is to say 'yeah you think you're so smart defending your views well you guys are actually really dumb lol letters x and d'. Nobody is calling you bigoted and stupid. All because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they dislike you. Do I think I'm smarter then you? How the fuck could I possibly know that if I know nothing about you? I'm pretty sure there's many things you're smarter than me about and things I might be smarter than you on.

Debate isn't supposed to be an ego-dick drive show off thing so don't think of everyone who goes against what you say as that.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Sorry its just with the experience I've had here, it feels like I'm being talked down to sometimes. It gets me worked up and I apologize.

[Bluesman]

These quotes do not prove a damn thing... and that is coming from a fairly strong christian. If you want to argue for religion, do it intelligently and don't make the rest of us look bad. EXAMPLE: Massive copy and pasting with no real purpose.

[FreeFall]

People are so quick to judge, to put themselves above others, to automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with them is an idiot who is to stupid to understand the 'supreme' knowledge that they have. There are two sides to every argument, just like there is always two sides to a coin, just like for light to exist so must darkness and for there to be good there must be bad. There is always opposition in everything, which means that there is always a choice. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Newton summed it up perfectly. The world works the same way. For everything, there is an opposite.
So to have believers, one must have a naysayer then yes? Aren't atheists the other side of the "believer coin"?

These quotes I posted were supposed to get you thinking about what you think is right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral.
I don't need quotes to define my moralities and judgement.

One of the last quotes talked about having an open mind. It is good to have an open mind, but if it is always open, then nothing will stay. Keep an open mind, but make sure to close when you find what you believe in.
Sorry I'm lost. You say have an open mind, and close it when you believe? I respect what you believe, I respect your faith is strong, but why close your mind around your faith? That blocks out everything else and all you know and understand is your faith. Why should we close it?

I have my beliefs and you have yours. It's your choice to decide which one is right and which one is wrong.
Yes.
But we don't get to decide who is right and who is wrong.
We just have to respect each other. I don't believe, you obviously do. Neither of us is right, neither of us is wrong. We're doing what works for us in our lives, that's all there is to it. Respect.

[Human]

I'm not going to read your post, seeing as it isn't logical or reasonable to post some other peoples works and leech of it expecting people to go "I'VE SEEN THE LIGHT"
Unless you can give me scientific evidence of god, or make some kind of 'miracle' happen, I'll never believe in god.

[havingfun]

God exists. I have my firsthand proof and that is all I need.

[Amnesiac]

Here are some quotes I found that pretty much prove that God exists. If you can dispute what they say.....well I highly doubt that you can.

"If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… …

Except it's not like that, at all. Humans aren't hardwired to "fizz" a certain way. We don't end up atheists by chance, or religious by chance. And, indeed, life is not as simple as a "series of chemical reactions". We're sentient beings, not androids farted out by the Universe.

Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before.

Intelligence isn't simply a by-product of existing. It's easy to twist the atheist position into making a claim that everything is "by chance," but that is simply not true. Calling the operations of the brain simple chemical reactions is a gross simplification. Life is more complex than that. When you look at humanity from a universal perspective, it is meaningless and irrelevant. However, that doesn't nullify concepts like morality and emotion. Those are concepts created by human beings interacting with other human beings, and they hold meaning in a societal context. God isn't required.

If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else." - Douglas Wilson

Except we do have a reason to push forward with defining morality and reason – because we function in a society of seven billion individuals, and each of us affect each others' lives. Mankind itself holds no meaning in this universe. We are a speck on a speck in a speck floating around a speck. However, again, that doesn't invalidate the interactions we have with each other. Those "bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water" can still feel, can still inflict pain and create love. Those are sensations that exist with or without a God to create them. God isn't a requirement to apply meaning to the human race, because we can apply that meaning ourselves. So what, we're the result of chemical reactions? That doesn't mean we're not sentient beings.

"My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." - C.S. Lewis

Meaning isn't like light. Lewis is right that in a universe without light, there would be no concept of dark. However, in a universe without meaning, it is still possible to comprehend meaning. Why? Because, unlike light, meaning is an abstract and subjective concept. Human beings define what meaning is. Light is a physical manifestation, while meaning is something that exists only in our minds. It is entirely possible to comprehend both meaningfulness and meaninglessness, because we created meaning. Indeed, some people do see "meaning" in the universe, while others do not. It's subjective and every person will have a different opinion on what it means to mean.

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too.

How can you call it an "accident"? There are no accidents in the Universe. All interactions follow a specific set of mathematical laws. You can only label it an "accident" if there was a right way to do it.

If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true?

Because they're not mere accidental by-products. They did not happen by chance, either. It's common knowledge that the Universe functions on a series of laws that human beings have advanced far enough to have a rough concept of. In order for Lewis's argument to be valid, then everything has to be an "accident" and completely random. But it's not. The Universe runs on patterns and mathematical laws, not accidental collisions and chance.

I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset." - C.S. Lewis

Well, they're not accidents. So there you go.

"A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process."

This has nothing to do with atheism and more to do with the failure of people to achieve any sort of objectivity, which is definitely a huge problem in today's society. I agree, too many people believe their beliefs are immune from criticism. Like some of the posters in this thread.

"Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe." - Peter Kreeft

I can't speak on how the Universe was created. Technically, that doesn't even fall under the definition of atheism. Personally, I believe it is a futile goal. Humans will never discover what happened before time, before the Big Bang. Indeed, science does not deal with what occurs outside of time, and with good reason. At that point, all scientific laws break down. But, as was mentioned above, it is true that the universe's existence is hardly improbable when there was an infinite amount of "time" (if you can call it that) for it to form. Improbability is an often misunderstood concept, because it's difficult for people to understand how probable things become on an infinite timeline.

"A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is... A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people, in one sense, know very little about badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in." - C. S. Lewis

Okay, well, that's great. Don't see what it has to do with God, though.

"If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped." - Evelyn Underhill

Oh, what powerful LOGIC and REASON you have there. This quote contains neither, really. It simply twists the definition of "God" further to make it harder to debunk. Like I haven't seen that done a million times.

"God exist whether or not men may choose to believe in Him. The reason why many people do not believe in God is not so much that it is intellectually impossible to believe in God, but because belief in God forces that thoughtful person to face the fact that he is accountable to such a God." - Robert A. Laidlaw

Well, Laidlaw is just calling atheists pussies. I'm an atheist because I can't bear the thought of being judged by God? How is that logic and reason? It's just stereotyping atheists by labeling them as individuals who have authority complexes.

"Occam's razor states that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything, however, the simple theory must be able to account for or explain what needs explaining. It's not enough to have a simpler theory if you can't account for anything. Though we shouldn't add entities beyond what's needed, we also should not subtract entities beyond what's needed." - Paul Manata

This sounds like a rewording of the typical "God of the gaps" argument. The problem with this argument is that it assumes that God is a good explanation for anything at all. Is God sufficient for accounting for all of the unknowns in this Universe? No. Occam's razor discourages assumptions. God itself is an assumption. Scientific theory is not.

"Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God." - Tom Stoppard

Oh, this guy is cool.

No reason or logic there, just egotistical babbling.

"Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior." - Vox Day

Borrowed ethics? Why is it necessary for a superior being to come down and "validate" ethics and morality? Vox Day is just stereotyping atheists, much like many of the other people that you've quoted, and he does it poorly. Morals are something that should be formed on the basis of helping fellow humans, not pleasing a religious deity. And being skeptical of one's own beliefs is preferable to zealously believing in them.

"Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - G.K. Chesterton

And this proves God's existence how?

"The most valued attributes of mankind do not come naturally to the human animal; character borrows from the divine." - A.S.A. Jones

No logic or reason there. Pure assumption.

[Sleepy Raisin]

I'm not going to read your post, seeing as it isn't logical or reasonable to post some other peoples works and leech of it expecting people to go "I'VE SEEN THE LIGHT"
Unless you can give me scientific evidence of god, or make some kind of 'miracle' happen, I'll never believe in god.

I dont think thats what he was intentionally trying to do here. For people to "SEE THE LIGHT" isnt somepthing thats gunna happen over a few quotes of some famous guys, especially because its opinion, not fact. But as he posted far back, he's not trying to convert you. He's just well.. Sparking a huge momma jamma debate! And dont you think you should read the OP before making a post judging and condescending the thread and his opinion?

Also, you want scientific evidence? Thats kinda ridiculous, i mean how exactally do think humans got here? How did the world get here? Theres ALWAYS a beginning. Plus do you really think that some people would make up the bible? Make up the stories and truths in the bible?

Also, the bible was written in Ancient Greek and Hebrew, on scrolls, later recollected into the bible then translated a million times. The Kings James Version is the closest ENGLISH version to it even though half the words were translated incorrectly. There is actually a ministry devoted to learning the bible and studying it in depth to figure out what words where missused or should say somepthing else.
Not that anyone asked...

[root]

No way guys, we're all still bitching about this? Let's just get things straight:

OP, no one gives a shit about it. Stop trying to convert people or whatever.

The bible is just a book. It's like any other book but this time people take things literally.

Logic can be correct but it's not sound if the premises are not

[TheMatrix]

I'm done. It's exhausting to read these. I thought these quotes would spark some deep intellectual debates, but all I got were some offended atheists who can't even try to......you know what, nevermind. It's pointless. I'm done.

"Deep Intellectual debates" and "religion" are two mutually exclusive scenarios, just so you know.
But, I do believe in the following:
http://assets.amuniversal.com/8453d5c0bffc012fdd30001dd8b71c47

You've been a bad person! Polka music for you!
nbh1ep36vjY&autoplay=1

[Twilly F. Sniper]

God exists. I have my firsthand proof and that is all I need.

You sound like the guy that thought he saw Jesus when he died. That right there is the stupidest thing I've heard of. JS, to me what proof COULD it be?

What I believe is that the Bible was a fictional book written so good, people actually believed it true. *video game reference* like that nuclear bomb in Megaton and the (i think the stupid) sons of atom.

Please don't double post, use the edit button. ~TheMatrix

[Professional Russian]

God exists. I have my firsthand proof and that is all I need.

How the fuck do you have first hand proof? What did you die and see them and then get revived because if you say that im going to call bullshit

[Twilly F. Sniper]

How the fuck do you have first hand proof? What did you die and see them and then get revived because if you say that im going to call bullshit

Bullshit it is. Obviously you can't use your eyes when you're dead.

[Professional Russian]

Bullshit it is. Obviously you can't use your eyes when you're dead.

Exactly

[havingfun]

.............

[Bath]

^^^^ The true definition of HATE in the 3 previous posts


You can keep giving me the red reps, it doesn't bother me at all.

Please just report the posts if you have a problem and don't complain in the thread, it's useless and spam.

[Sleepy Raisin]

Bullshit it is. Obviously you can't use your eyes when you're dead.

Cant you guys respect his opinion? You have yours and he's-for the most part- respected your opinion! Can you not give him the same and leave it at that? Or do you have to be so vulgar?

Obviously you cant use eyes when your dead, youre no longer living, but dying is like being in a deep long sleep until the coming of Christ when we are broght before God. At least that is what i believe.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

This isn't opinion. He's pointing out that is logic. Its not.

[FreeFall]

This isn't opinion. He's pointing out that is logic. Its not.
Agreed.
Once you try and debate the logic of something there is no more personal opinion. There is logical and illogical. You can have your personal way of thinking, but when you can't explain it to others to have them understand and be able to see it from your logical stand point, it sort of fails in that regard.

[Eloise]

you cannot prove whether if god exist or not.. /theend

[Sugaree]

I respect the OP's opinion and his right to hold it. However, I fundamentally disagree with him as to the existence of a "God" (or however he wishes to call it) because I do not see the Bible as a fit reference point to prove the existence of such a being. In lieu of this, I will continue to respect his opinion, wrong as it may be, because it's none of my business to intrude upon his religion and it is his sovereign right to hold these beliefs. Go on with your life, OP, because you have effectively trolled many users here without even lifting a finger.

[Gandalf]

I respect the OP's opinion and his right to hold it. However, I fundamentally disagree with him as to the existence of a "God" (or however he wishes to call it) because I do not see the Bible as a fit reference point to prove the existence of such a being. In lieu of this, I will continue to respect his opinion, wrong as it may be, because it's none of my business to intrude upon his religion and it is his sovereign right to hold these beliefs. Go on with your life, OP, because you have effectively trolled many users here without even lifting a finger.


Maybe he is a bit of a troll, but most of the posts on this thread were a spammer.

[sammy1996]

Just because a few other people agree doesnt make it FACT, thats just... stupid. A quote does NOT equal evidence.
I find it ridiculous in such a modern and future thinking, knowledgeable time people still limit themselves and believe in religion, anyone with a open enough mind can see just how far fetched and simple brain washing it is. Its also funny that someone wrote a bible and everyone looked at it like, "yeah this is all possible, lets worship this guy" I might just do this with harry potter.

[Jaysonn]

I think some people need to grow up a bit more before just splurting out uneducated insults on either atheists or religious people or anyone!


Debating isn't about calling religious people 'brainwashed' or other groups 'stupid'

Let everyone just have their own views and get on with it if people can't talk about it without being insulted!


Fair play to the people that were actually being respectful to one another...

[WickedWeekend]

I am a devout Christian but I strongly disagree with fact that the OP is giving us true, sound logic as proof. There is no proof God exists. Only by faith can we see God. Those are my thoughts.

[root]

I think some people need to grow up a bit more before just splurting out uneducated insults on either atheists or religious people or anyone!


Debating isn't about calling religious people 'brainwashed' or other groups 'stupid'

Let everyone just have their own views and get on with it if people can't talk about it without being insulted!


Fair play to the people that were actually being respectful to one another...

Bro, you watch the presidential debates lately? Debate is all about insulting.

I dunno who you're calling uneducated but I doubt your that much better than anyone who posted here.

Let's face it, none of them are legitimately debating anyway.

[WickedWeekend]

Debate is all about insulting.

No, it's not. Pull me up a definition of "debate" that includes the word "insult". Source and all. I dare you.

[root]

No, it's not. Pull me up a definition of "debate" that includes the word "insult". Source and all. I dare you.

Definitions are for kids. Watch the presidential debate. All Obama does is try to diss Romney and all Romney did for the Republican debate was attack people and answer stuff indirectly. Politics suck.

http://bit.ly/NI2egH

It could have been easily googled

[Magus]

Definitions are for kids. Watch the presidential debate. All Obama does is try to diss Romney and all Romney did for the Republican debate was attack people and answer stuff indirectly. Politics suck.

http://bit.ly/NI2egH

It could have been easily googled

So presidential debates are somehow now prime models for a sound debate?

Boy, you were out of your mind.

[root]

So presidential debates are somehow now prime models for a sound debate?

Boy, you were out of your mind.

no, but there isn't exactly a perfect model for debating.

[Magus]

no, but there isn't exactly a perfect model for debating.who cares. We make our own perfect, boring models.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Just because a few other people agree doesnt make it FACT, thats just... stupid. A quote does NOT equal evidence.
I find it ridiculous in such a modern and future thinking, knowledgeable time people still limit themselves and believe in religion, anyone with a open enough mind can see just how far fetched and simple brain washing it is. Its also funny that someone wrote a bible and everyone looked at it like, "yeah this is all possible, lets worship this guy" I might just do this with harry potter.

This as well.

[RedViper]

IT doesnt make sense the bible(According to other members) contradicts it self. There is no scientific proof. im not going to believe something that was rewritten like 10 times.
It's like the worlds longest game of Chinese Whispers.

Keep an open mind, but make sure to close when you find what you believe in.
You say that then try to convince us to believe in "God"? We've already found what we believe in. You're contradicting yourself. Also I think you need to get a better dictionary so you know the definitions of 'logic' and 'reason'. You can't just post a heap of other peoples opinions and call it fact.

I am a devout Christian but I strongly disagree with fact that the OP is giving us true, sound logic as proof. There is no proof God exists. Only by faith can we see God. Those are my thoughts.

Wow.. It's a logical religious person. Those are rare!

[Jaysonn]

Bro, you watch the presidential debates lately? Debate is all about insulting.

I dunno who you're calling uneducated but I doubt your that much better than anyone who posted here.

Let's face it, none of them are legitimately debating anyway.


I didn't mean to say I was any more educated- and of course there will always be a level of insulting but when people are mocking and insulting other people's beliefs to levels where it becomes extremely offensive- well that's wrong- it shows a lack of maturity in my opinion- and while in the uk I'm not avidly following the presidential elections- from what I hear they are not exactly 'role models' :)

[root]

No, but they lead the country, they are expected to set a certain standard.

[Magus]

No, but they lead the country, they are expected to set a certain standard.

They lead no country. They are sock puppets to decieve the unware masses. The true overlords are the corporate. Idiots are those who think that either a republican or a democrate will change the country. It's all the corporate.

Why do you think America is pressuring Iran, and some other Socialists nation? I won't say "think of it", it's common sense.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

They lead no country. They are sock puppets to decieve the unware masses. The true overlords are the corporate. Idiots are those who think that either a republican or a democrate will change the country. It's all the corporate.

Why do you think America is pressuring Iran, and some other Socialists nation? I won't say "think of it", it's common sense.

True.

[Human]

Oh and if we're throwing around quotes as 'evidence' here then I'll add a little bit.
"The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.
There were, and still aren't, original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There were over 8000 of these manuscripts with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these anyway, instead they edited previous translations to create a version their King and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st century Christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of letters written in the 1st century."

[Lyra Heartstrings]

Oh and if we're throwing around quotes as 'evidence' here then I'll add a little bit.
"The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.
There were, and still aren't, original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There were over 8000 of these manuscripts with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these anyway, instead they edited previous translations to create a version their King and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st century Christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of letters written in the 1st century."

This guy wins the thread.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Oh and if we're throwing around quotes as 'evidence' here then I'll add a little bit.
"The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.
There were, and still aren't, original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There were over 8000 of these manuscripts with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these anyway, instead they edited previous translations to create a version their King and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st century Christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of letters written in the 1st century."

This is logic proving otherwise.

[Human]

Dear diary, it's been two days now and no word of the christians on this thread.
I don't think I can last here much longer, tell my wife I love her