Chick-Fil-A [Archive] - Virtual Teen Forums

Cicero

August 2nd, 2012, 09:48 PM

Free speech shouldn't allow you to make hateful comments or infringe on the rights of others. It doesn't mean that you can say whatever you want. There are limits to free speech and spreading hatred is one of them.

Whether he was right or wrong is important. There's nothing wrong with seeking the truth, but there is a problem with discriminating against one group without a valid reason. Also, where is the double standard? People were mad because someone tried to infringe on their rights. What's wrong with that?

Actually, I looked up what was going on a little more. And they donate money to a group called Focus on the Family. Which supports marriage between man and woman. No hate comments were made about gays. This is a HUGE double standard. Company's like Ben and Jerry can donate to LGBT groups, yet Tyson Chicken, Hobby Lobby, and Chick Fil A cant support marriage groups that believe it's for man and women? That's wrong. So your right, it's wrong that they set a double standard. The president of Chick fil a, said NOTHING hateful, he just supported a group that they believe in. Just like Ben and Jerrys do. Oh, and it doesn't infringe on they're rights.

Suddenly, when a company speaks out for what they believe in ,it's wrong? They didn't even say anything hateful. They just support marriage between man and woman. That's not hateful. They made not 1 hateful comment. And actually, I went on they're Facebook page (and liked them, they're new peach milkshake looks awesome btw :D) and tons of supporters have said stuff like "Good job!", for every 5 good job comments I read, I saw one negative comment. So from looking at that, they're not doing to bad. And no, people won't sell they're stocks just because they support non LGBT groups. Theyre stocks are worth a nice amount, and no one cares what they support, as long as they get money. I've also learned they have the best chicken in the world, Now I want some! Haha

So overal, Chik fil a said nothing hateful. They didn't even donate to a hateful group. They just donated to a group that had different views than other liberal media groups. That's not wrong. I believe it's a huge double standard. I don't remember hearing about a Ben and Jerry's protest. People really need to grow up and not care who someone donates to. Chik fil a is a business, anything that they receive extra (which usually happens in a business, it's called profit) they should be able to freely give to whatever group they want.

Stryker125

August 2nd, 2012, 10:43 PM

Actually, I looked up what was going on a little more. And they donate money to a group called Focus on the Family. Which supports marriage between man and woman. No hate comments were made about gays. This is a HUGE double standard. Company's like Ben and Jerry can donate to LGBT groups, yet Tyson Chicken, Hobby Lobby, and Chick Fil A cant support marriage groups that believe it's for man and women? That's wrong. So your right, it's wrong that they set a double standard. The president of Chick fil a, said NOTHING hateful, he just supported a group that they believe in. Just like Ben and Jerrys do. Oh, and it doesn't infringe on they're rights.

Suddenly, when a company speaks out for what they believe in ,it's wrong? They didn't even say anything hateful. They just support marriage between man and woman. That's not hateful. They made not 1 hateful comment. And actually, I went on they're Facebook page (and liked them, they're new peach milkshake looks awesome btw :D) and tons of supporters have said stuff like "Good job!", for every 5 good job comments I read, I saw one negative comment. So from looking at that, they're not doing to bad. And no, people won't sell they're stocks just because they support non LGBT groups. Theyre stocks are worth a nice amount, and no one cares what they support, as long as they get money. I've also learned they have the best chicken in the world, Now I want some! Haha

So overal, Chik fil a said nothing hateful. They didn't even donate to a hateful group. They just donated to a group that had different views than other liberal media groups. That's not wrong. I believe it's a huge double standard. I don't remember hearing about a Ben and Jerry's protest. People really need to grow up and not care who someone donates to. Chik fil a is a business, anything that they receive extra (which usually happens in a business, it's called profit) they should be able to freely give to whatever group they want.

I completely agree. You aren't "tolerant" and "respectful" to others if you're only tolerant and respectful to those who believe the same things as you. It doesn't work that way.

So what do you think about all this controversy?

I think Chick-Fil-a sandwiches are delicious. And so are oreos. I really wish people would stop putting politics and religion into my food. And trying to make me feel guilty for eating a sandwich. It's just a fucking sandwich. A delicious sandwich.

huginnmuninn

August 2nd, 2012, 11:19 PM

I just ate some chick-fil-a today and it was awesome!
The dude didn't say anything bad or anything he just donated some money i don't get why people are upset. Hell the worst thing about chick-fil-a is that they're closed on sunday. the business is pretty much run by fundamentalist christians so i dont see why everyone is so surprised.

Sugaree

August 3rd, 2012, 12:25 AM

Go focus on the family! I love that organization.

So you're in support for a group that is highly anti-marriage equality and also supports homosexuality "cure" programs?

I support Chick-Fil-A's freedom of speech on the issue, and I'm fine with them donating to the programs. However, just because this is freedom of speech doesn't make it harmful. Unfortunately, Chick-Fil-A was founded by a highly conservative Christian who takes religion to the extreme in his political views. The fact that he gave money to these organizations, such as Focus On The Family and other groups that support his views, only shows that this money is going towards hatred and bigotry. Chick-Fil-A has every right to use their profits for how they see fit, but when it begins giving money to organizations that exist to undermine any social progression is when shit gets serious.

The Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day on Wednesday was a good show on what Americans are concerned about. Instead of raising our voices about crumbling infrastructure, the cost of healthcare, and issues that deal with the economy, the media has taken all its power into making us focus on fried chicken sandwiches.

Cognizant

August 3rd, 2012, 12:40 AM

Honestly, i'm part of the LGBT community, and i'd have no problem eating there. It's the president's life, not mine, it's not like he's refusing service to me because I like both men and women, so what's the problem? Why do we have to go protest and stop eating there just because they support straight marriage?

We don't have any in our area so it's not really a problem for me, but if I see one i'll eat there. Again, it's not like they're refusing to serve LGBT people, and nobody's saying that the owners/managers/employees of the Chick-fil-a chain fast food restaurants agree with him. They're just saying that the power board is supporting organizations who think marriage should be between opposite sexes, not the employees.

Sugaree

August 3rd, 2012, 12:43 AM

Honestly, i'm part of the LGBT community, and i'd have no problem eating there. It's the president's life, not mine, it's not like he's refusing service to me because I like both men and women, so what's the problem? Why do we have to go protest and stop eating there just because they support straight marriage?

See, this is a double standard. Why are you supporting a company that doesn't support your rights as an individual to marry who you want? I made a comment earlier this week about going to Chick-Fil-A on the protest day and eating there, but I realized my own double standard. I can't call for equality to marry my boyfriend and give money to an organization that gives THAT money to anti-equality groups. You don't have to go and protest, but if you don't want to be a victim of hypocrisy and the double standard, you shouldn't eat there.

FreeFall

August 3rd, 2012, 12:53 AM

Sorry they support a group they believe in. Just like you support groups you believe in.

It's his money, he's every right to do as he please with it. Frankly he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Just think how huge a crises we'd have had he given that money to the LGBT? Now think how'd angry people would be if he didn't donate money at all aka stingy, selfish rich guy. It's a lose - lose situation for him. So I say to those upset, get over yourselves and let the man have his right to support what he feels is right to him. He's not spewing hateful comments, he's not rejecting LGBT employees, he's not refusing LGBT members service, nor is he making Chick-Fil-A a heterosexual company. He's just supporting a group with his beliefs.

Korashk

August 3rd, 2012, 12:54 AM

See, this is a double standard. Why are you supporting a company that doesn't support your rights as an individual to marry who you want? I made a comment earlier this week about going to Chick-Fil-A on the protest day and eating there, but I realized my own double standard. I can't call for equality to marry my boyfriend and give money to an organization that gives THAT money to anti-equality groups. You don't have to go and protest, but if you don't want to be a victim of hypocrisy and the double standard, you shouldn't eat there.
If you don't want to be a hypocrite with your purchasing power you may as well lock yourself in a room and starve to death, because that's basically what you'd have to do. In the grand scheme of things, you specifically buying things from a company isn't going to affect how they use their money.

Neptune

August 3rd, 2012, 01:42 AM

As the company is privately owned, I believe that the CEO/President/whatever he is, has the right to express his view- do I agree with his view? Absolutely not. But he has the right to say it. If you don't like it, don't go there anymore and it seems that a lot of people are doing that.

It's pretty much that simple for me.

Professional Russian

August 3rd, 2012, 08:47 AM

Gaybaby94

August 3rd, 2012, 08:51 AM

I'm sorry for those who support same sex marriage and still gOSS. I don't care if so,eons is against my right to marry, but using millions of dollars to prevent that right, it is just ignorant, hateful, and sick. I refuse to profit my money on a place that will hurt me. And I'm a vegan anyways. So fast food joints don't do it for me.

And to clear things up, it is my opinion that being against my right to marry is NOT an opinion. It is ignorance.

Bath

August 3rd, 2012, 09:51 AM

I think America is the only country that causes a national debate over a chicken restaurant.

Gay marriage here has been up for debate for a long time now here, it's nothing new. I think people just look for something to fight against to state their beliefs on the issue. I like Chick Fil A and would probably still eat there if I knew their profits didn't go toward anti-gay groups. Will me not paying make a difference? Probably not. But it's something I can go without and I'd prefer my money didn't go toward that. If I'm with friends or something and they're paying, I'll have Chick Fil A though. Because they's nommy.

I think there is way too much controversy over it. People need lay themselves down in a candlelit bubble bath and think about their stand on it and what they're gonna do about it rather than JDJDJNNNNN CHICK FIL A U STUPID I HATE U GO TO DIE

Maverick

August 3rd, 2012, 11:59 AM

4584

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 12:19 PM

4584

They're not all Christian, and ya you would, I've seen that many at a homeless shelter.

So you're in support for a group

I listened to them every night, and not one thing did they say hateful. Your misinformed. I support a group with different morals and values than you do, yes.

Gigablue

August 3rd, 2012, 02:14 PM

Actually, I looked up what was going on a little more. And they donate money to a group called Focus on the Family. Which supports marriage between man and woman. No hate comments were made about gays.

The tactic of focusing on families has been used for decades by anti gay marriage activists. It's quite clear that they are opposed to ga marriage since they emphasize marriage between a man and woman.

This is a HUGE double standard. Company's like Ben and Jerry can donate to LGBT groups, yet Tyson Chicken, Hobby Lobby, and Chick Fil A cant support marriage groups that believe it's for man and women? That's wrong. So your right, it's wrong that they set a double standard. The president of Chick fil a, said NOTHING hateful, he just supported a group that they believe in. Just like Ben and Jerrys do. Oh, and it doesn't infringe on they're rights.

Ben and Jerry aren't saying that man and women can't get married, only that they think that all people should be able to marry, regardless of gender. They aren't saying that marriage can only be between people of the same gender.

Be saying marriage should only be between a man and a woman, they are infringing on the rights of SAMs sex couples who want to get married.

Suddenly, when a company speaks out for what they believe in ,it's wrong? They didn't even say anything hateful. They just support marriage between man and woman. That's not hateful. They made not 1 hateful comment.

It's not that they're speaking out for what they believe in that's wrong, it's that they're infringing on people's rights. There's nothing wrong with supporting marriage between a man and a woman. There is something wrong, however, with only supporting marriage between a man and a woman.

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 02:25 PM

The tactic of focusing on families has been used for decades by anti gay marriage activists. It's quite clear that they are opposed to ga marriage since they emphasize marriage between a man and woman.

Ben and Jerry aren't saying that man and women can't get married, only that they think that all people should be able to marry, regardless of gender. They aren't saying that marriage can only be between people of the same gender.

Be saying marriage should only be between a man and a woman, they are infringing on the rights of SAMs sex couples who want to get married.

It's not that they're speaking out for what they believe in that's wrong, it's that they're infringing on people's rights. There's nothing wrong with supporting marriage between a man and a woman. There is something wrong, however, with only supporting marriage between a man and a woman.

It's not wrong. They didn't even say anything hateful. It was between a Baptist Magazine and company, and then the liberal media made it a huge deal. It wasn't even directed to LGBT it was directed to a Christian company.

Gigablue

August 3rd, 2012, 03:16 PM

It's not wrong. They didn't even say anything hateful. It was between a Baptist Magazine and company, and then the liberal media made it a huge deal. It wasn't even directed to LGBT it was directed to a Christian company.

They gave their support to a hateful organization. Their money will be used to infringe on people's rights. The media just pointed it out. They informed the public. That's their job.

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 03:24 PM

They gave their support to a hateful organization. Their money will be used to infringe on people's rights. The media just pointed it out. They informed the public. That's their job.

lol it's not even close to a hateful organization. They like gays, but disagree with how they live. Big difference. They like the person, just not the sin.

Sugaree

August 3rd, 2012, 04:03 PM

ok this is the dumbest thing ive seen to day. I dont see why gay marriage matters so much sure you should be able to get married if your gay but if someone says they're anti gay why does it matter so much? its someones opinion i dont see why people get all pissed off over something that stupid. what has the world come to.

Of course you don't understand why this matters. I'm assuming you're heterosexual, correct? How would you feel if the right for heterosexual marriage were to be taken away and only homosexual marriage allowed? Having basic human rights denied to one group and granted to another is not a fair practice.

I listened to them every night, and not one thing did they say hateful. Your misinformed. I support a group with different morals and values than you do, yes.

Firstly, thanks for not quoting my entire post. You do a great job of picking and choosing. Also, here's some evidence that Focus on the Family IS anti-gay among other things:

Focus On The Family Asks Students To Agree With Anti-Gay 'Core Statement', Then Warns Of Indoctrination - Think Progress 11/28/2011 (http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/11/28/376997/focus-on-the-family-asks-students-to-agree-with-anti-gay-core-statement-then-warns-of-indoctrination/?mobile=nc)

Focus on the Family to push ballot initiative to ban state government interference (where it would be allowed to discriminate against gays on religious beliefs) - The Denver Post 3/13/2012 (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20163272/focus-family-push-ballot-initiative-ban-state-government)

Focus on the Family to sponsor anti-gay school program - Examiner.com 11/11/2010 (http://www.examiner.com/article/focus-on-the-family-to-sponsor-anti-gay-school-program)

This is who you are supporting, Tacitus. You are supporting a group with highly bigoted intentions. Focus on the Family is also anti-choice and is all for forcing prayers in school. Kinda funny how they want prayer in school and anti-gay programs, huh? Organizations like FotF socially undermine progress that is essential for equality. The fact that it actually condones bullying of gays is sickening. They have the right to believe in their values just like I do, but such 'values' are what hinders necessary progress for the equal treatment of all citizens in the United States.

lol it's not even close to a hateful organization. They like gays, but disagree with how they live. Big difference. They like the person, just not the sin.

That's bullshit. Look at the links I've provided. They clearly hate both gays and their "sin". If they truly liked the LGBT community, they wouldn't be sponsoring programs against LGBT and pushing initiatives in state governments to make religious bigotry legal. You are incredibly deluded to think Focus on the Family is anything BUT what you've stated. It is not the words that make a person who they are, but their actions. Remember that.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 3rd, 2012, 04:17 PM

Gigablue. Listen to yourself. Let me point out some things that are wrong with your arguments.

1. You say that the founder has freedom of speech, but because he doesn't support gay marriage, he doesn't have that right. I thought you said not to infringe on people's rights. He can say what he wants because he has that right just as you do. Just because he says something that offends you doesn't mean he should have that right taken away. Some people, like me, are offended when you support gay marriage. Should you have your right taken away because of that? No.

2. You said he has the right to donate his money into what he wants to, but not into For the Family. I thought you said not to infringe on people's rights. He can donate money wherever he wants to because that is his right just like it is yours. For the Family supports the idea of a traditional family. This man agrees with that and puts money into it. It doesn't matter if the organization doesn't support gay marriage. He still has the right to do that, just like you have the right to donate to whatever you want.

3. How is not supporting gay marriage considered hatred and bigotry? I don't support it, but I don't hate it or think I'm better than it. I just don't support it. I have an opposite belief than it. Nothing hateful or bigoted about that. You say that people who don't support it are ignorant and arrogant. But by calling them that, aren't you being hateful and bigoted?

You have to realize, everyone has rights. You believe that gays have the right to marry. You know what, you are right. They do. I don't support the idea of gay marriage but I won't stop anyone from doing it. I support the idea of the family. That is my right to believe that just like it is your right to believe what you want. I won't step on you for not believing my way so don't stop on me or anyone else for not believing your way. The founder of Chik-fil-a has the right to say what he wants and to do with his money however he wants. Obey your own words and don't infringe on his right of freedom of speech even if you don't agree with what he says. You just keep on fighting for the right of marriage and allow others the right to do as they will.

Professional Russian

August 3rd, 2012, 04:25 PM

rockNroll

August 3rd, 2012, 04:27 PM

I've never been to a Chick-Fil-A, and I don't plan on it. I don't think a fast-food company should get to make decisions for people, they seem to think that they can control everyone who eats there. It wasn't just that the owner or whatever has his own views, but hehas now associated those views with everyone who works there. They have given out millions of dollars (according to ABC) to anit-gay rights movements in the past. For the people saying that he's entitled to his own opinion, you're right, but the fact that he used this opinion to make tons of money and try to force his opinion and religion down others' throats is just wrong. Here's exactly what he said: "I think we are inviting God's judgement on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say 'we know better than you what constitutes a marriage." I see the words 'we' and 'us' in there. Excuse me, but I'm not shaking my fist at something that I don't think exists, so stop saying God "judges" America (even though I thought one of the fundamental ideals in Christianity was not judging) just because I disagree what he thinks. He's using the Bible, which a steady percent of this world and country don't abide by, to say what's not right. Okay, shall we flip through the Bible while I point out other stuff that the Bible says we shouldn't do, but I'm sure he does anyway? How about greed, for starters? And for the people saying they just went out to support him and people who disagree can disagree, well why are you trying to keep same-sex marriage illegal? Doesn't seem like you're thinking of anyone's views but your own. That's my 2 cents.

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 04:31 PM

Of course you don't understand why this matters. I'm assuming you're heterosexual, correct? How would you feel if the right for heterosexual marriage were to be taken away and only homosexual marriage allowed? Having basic human rights denied to one group and granted to another is not a fair practice.

Firstly, thanks for not quoting my entire post. You do a great job of picking and choosing. Also, here's some evidence that Focus on the Family IS anti-gay among other things:

Focus On The Family Asks Students To Agree With Anti-Gay 'Core Statement', Then Warns Of Indoctrination - Think Progress 11/28/2011 (http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/11/28/376997/focus-on-the-family-asks-students-to-agree-with-anti-gay-core-statement-then-warns-of-indoctrination/?mobile=nc)

Focus on the Family to push ballot initiative to ban state government interference (where it would be allowed to discriminate against gays on religious beliefs) - The Denver Post 3/13/2012 (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20163272/focus-family-push-ballot-initiative-ban-state-government)

Focus on the Family to sponsor anti-gay school program - Examiner.com 11/11/2010 (http://www.examiner.com/article/focus-on-the-family-to-sponsor-anti-gay-school-program)

This is who you are supporting, Tacitus. You are supporting a group with highly bigoted intentions. Focus on the Family is also anti-choice and is all for forcing prayers in school. Kinda funny how they want prayer in school and anti-gay programs, huh? Organizations like FotF socially undermine progress that is essential for equality. The fact that it actually condones bullying of gays is sickening. They have the right to believe in their values just like I do, but such 'values' are what hinders necessary progress for the equal treatment of all citizens in the United States.

That's bullshit. Look at the links I've provided. They clearly hate both gays and their "sin". If they truly liked the LGBT community, they wouldn't be sponsoring programs against LGBT and pushing initiatives in state governments to make religious bigotry legal. You are incredibly deluded to think Focus on the Family is anything BUT what you've stated. It is not the words that make a person who they are, but their actions. Remember that.

I already know that they don't agree with LGBT. There's nothing wrong with that. This isn't communist china (it won't be if Romney wins at least). So for the time that we can believe what we wanna believe without government involvement. Their is nothing wrong with disagreeing with LGBT. When is "Day of Truth"? Your right about the words and actions thing, that's why my family has donated thousands of dollars to Focus on the Family, it's not FotF it's, FOF for short. FOF also sponsors many homeless shelters and help raise money for the homeless.

StoppingTime

August 3rd, 2012, 04:43 PM

I already know that they don't agree with LGBT. There's nothing wrong with that. This isn't communist china (it won't be if Romney wins at least). So for the time that we can believe what we wanna believe without government involvement. Their is nothing wrong with disagreeing with LGBT. When is "Day of Truth"? Your right about the words and actions thing, that's why my family has donated thousands of dollars to Focus on the Family, it's not FotF it's, FOF for short. FOF also sponsors many homeless shelters and help raise money for the homeless.

Not only do they not agree, they are against it, and are trying to make it wrong for people to be LGBT.
And no, we wouldn't become communists if Romney wins.

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 04:45 PM

Not only do they not agree, they are against it, and are trying to make it wrong for people to be LGBT.
And no, we wouldn't become communists if Romney wins.

I phrased that wrong, if he Romney wins we won't be communist. I the other guy wins then we will.

I don't see what the big deal is. Chick Fil A has given hundreds of thousands to FOF every year. It's nothing new.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 3rd, 2012, 04:47 PM

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with or being against homosexuality and gay marriage just like there is nothing wrong with agreeing with it and supporting it. It is all opinion.

Belton21

August 3rd, 2012, 05:50 PM

If you ask me he gave his own opinion, he's a devout Christian and stands for what he believes in. No I don't agree with him donating money to anti gay organizations,but it's his money he can do what he wants with it.So what he doesn't support gay marriage, Who asked him to?? Its amazing how what one man says or does gets blown out of proportion..I'm not going to stop eating at Chic-Fil-A just because of his actions or opinions.. That's my thought on the matter.

Gigablue

August 3rd, 2012, 06:04 PM

1. You say that the founder has freedom of speech, but because he doesn't support gay marriage, he doesn't have that right. I thought you said not to infringe on people's rights. He can say what he wants because he has that right just as you do. Just because he says something that offends you doesn't mean he should have that right taken away. Some people, like me, are offended when you support gay marriage. Should you have your right taken away because of that? No.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. He is using his freedom of speech to spread hatred. That is abusing his right to freedom of speech. It's not that I'm offended by it, and I don't think laws should be made based on what offends people. I simply think he is discriminating and abusing his rights to infringe on those of others.

2. You said he has the right to donate his money into what he wants to, but not into For the Family. I thought you said not to infringe on people's rights. He can donate money wherever he wants to because that is his right just like it is yours. For the Family supports the idea of a traditional family. This man agrees with that and puts money into it. It doesn't matter if the organization doesn't support gay marriage. He still has the right to do that, just like you have the right to donate to whatever you want.

He does have the right to donate to them. I don't think I ever said he didn't. I simply said that for the family is an anti gay organization that I think is spreading hatred.

3. How is not supporting gay marriage considered hatred and bigotry? I don't support it, but I don't hate it or think I'm better than it. I just don't support it. I have an opposite belief than it. Nothing hateful or bigoted about that. You say that people who don't support it are ignorant and arrogant. But by calling them that, aren't you being hateful and bigoted?

By not supporting equality in marriage for everyone, regardless of gender, you see discriminating against them. I say that people who are against it are ignorant because there is no valid reason to oppose it. I'm not being hateful by disagreeing with their choice and trying to end discrimination.

havingfun

August 3rd, 2012, 06:07 PM

4584

Funny thing is that I have yet to see the HRC or GLAAD voltunteer at a homeless shelter either....why is that?

ImCoolBeans

August 3rd, 2012, 07:09 PM

It's been so blown up and blown way out of proportion. Never will you walk into a chick-fil-a and be denied service for being homosexual. Just because you don't agree with somebody's politics doesn't mean that we need to have an insane uproar like this. They treat customers with respect and equally, isn't that really all that matters? They aren't forcing their stances or beliefs down our throats when you go into one of their restaurants. Their owner simply opposes gay marriage publicly; but wait... don't other people oppose gay marriage publicly? What makes this so much different than that? Is it the fact that he's a person of power? If so, that's pretty dumb. He has no importance in any of our lives, I think we should just let it go. Get over it.

OregonStateDude

August 3rd, 2012, 07:40 PM

There's no Chick-Fil-A near me; oh well, I guess I can't protest. And I honestly don't even know where I stand on gay marriage, and check it, I'm gay!

But whatever, I'm not offended by what he said; he has the right to his own opinion.

Sugaree

August 3rd, 2012, 08:58 PM

No i dont understand why why people care so much. there will always be people against gay marriage you wont change them why waste your time getting pissed off about it and protesting when they're still going to do it.

You still don't get it. If someone took away your rights as a heterosexual to marry, deny you visitation rights, deny you recognition as a married couple, etc., you WOULD understand it. As a bisexual, if I were to marry my boyfriend, the government wouldn't recognize us as married. I would also have no visitation rights if he's in the hospital and we both would be denied the many tax benefits of marriage. You see, you don't get it. You won't get it until it directly affects you.

I already know that they don't agree with LGBT. There's nothing wrong with that. This isn't communist china (it won't be if Romney wins at least). So for the time that we can believe what we wanna believe without government involvement. Their is nothing wrong with disagreeing with LGBT. When is "Day of Truth"? Your right about the words and actions thing, that's why my family has donated thousands of dollars to Focus on the Family, it's not FotF it's, FOF for short. FOF also sponsors many homeless shelters and help raise money for the homeless.

You're not getting it either. Don't you see how much FOF actually DOES promote anti-LGBT propaganda? It's the denial of human rights to people just like you. Sure, they can sponsor all the homeless shelters and raise money for that all they want, but when do you ever see anything relating to that when FOF is brought up? The fact that they try to FORCE college students into agreeing with their stance on gays and then warning them about indoctrination is completely hypocritical. It's fine to disagree with the LGBT, I respect that as a common right here in America; but it's another thing to promote anti-gay school programs, indoctrinating future generations of kids, and basically trying to pour gasoline onto the LGBT bullying fire.

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 09:12 PM

You still don't get it. If someone took away your rights as a heterosexual to marry, deny you visitation rights, deny you recognition as a married couple, etc., you WOULD understand it. As a bisexual, if I were to marry my boyfriend, the government wouldn't recognize us as married. I would also have no visitation rights if he's in the hospital and we both would be denied the many tax benefits of marriage. You see, you don't get it. You won't get it until it directly affects you.

You're not getting it either. Don't you see how much FOF actually DOES promote anti-LGBT propaganda? It's the denial of human rights to people just like you. Sure, they can sponsor all the homeless shelters and raise money for that all they want, but when do you ever see anything relating to that when FOF is brought up? The fact that they try to FORCE college students into agreeing with their stance on gays and then warning them about indoctrination is completely hypocritical. It's fine to disagree with the LGBT, I respect that as a common right here in America; but it's another thing to promote anti-gay school programs, indoctrinating future generations of kids, and basically trying to pour gasoline onto the LGBT bullying fire.

They don't force anybody. They try to teach. That's it. They also discourage bullying. They teach to love the gay person, but hate they're sin. Your not getting it either and your sadly misinformed.

Sudds3

August 3rd, 2012, 09:18 PM

Well actually, he never said he was anti gay marriage! He just said he was very religious so that's why he doesn't have any of the stores open on Sunday, the day of rest for Christians. So people interpreted his devout faithful life and statement as being anti gay marriage! People are twisting his words around and it's wrong because they have awesome chicken....but even though a ton of people aren't eating there, it won't effect anything too badly.

Cicero

August 3rd, 2012, 09:22 PM

Vonn

August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 PM

Cicero

August 4th, 2012, 12:03 AM

Sunday: Go to church, be with family, love the Lord
Rest of the week: Donate $$$ to baaad people to keep the gays at bay

Isn't tolerance a part of Christianity? Or something? Loving your neighbor? What? This is what I was taught when I went to church. Was the Bible revised? Did I not get the memo?

The bible also says that homosexuality is an abomination.

And they're not bad people, we're talking about Christianity, the church you mightve gone to would probably be a mosque or a Buddhist temple. But God makes it clear what he thinks of homosexuals. These "baaad people" are doing nothing bad, they are just using the first amendment (which I'm sure many have forgotten). Hes not bad for donating money to a good organization that does much more than donate to anti LGBT. Tolerance isn't Apart of Christianity and it never has been. Someone should tolerate sin, they should remove themselves from it. Like the scripture says (not in the Koran or Buddhist bibles) if your hand causes you to win, cut it off. Your not supposed to tolerate it. So that's (somewhat) a analogy. So if someone is causing you to sin, or they're full of sin. You shouldn't take any part with them :) So according to the bible, LGBT is a sin.

Sugaree

August 4th, 2012, 12:03 AM

They don't force anybody. They try to teach. That's it. They also discourage bullying. They teach to love the gay person, but hate they're sin. Your not getting it either and your sadly misinformed.

No, you're misinformed. You have yet to provide any proof that they "teach" or "discourage" anything. I provided you with what? Three stories from three different sources? What more proof do you need to know that FOF is a bunch of bullshit extremists who are pushing for bigotry in the United States?

Cicero

August 4th, 2012, 12:13 AM

No, you're misinformed. You have yet to provide any proof that they "teach" or "discourage" anything. I provided you with what? Three stories from three different sources? What more proof do you need to know that FOF is a bunch of bullshit extremists who are pushing for bigotry in the United States?

"The school introduced anti-bullying lessons, but really they're teaching elementary school kids about gay marriage," Candi Cushman, education analyst for Focus on the Family, told ABC. "We think parents should have the right to teach kids about it in their own way."

(huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/anti-bullying-laws-christian-religious-freedom_n_1406757.html)
I really doubt that sounds bad. (about quote within link)

"It's a political agenda being shoved into my school," Schulz said, "to normalize homosexuality. …I have the right to pass on my faith and my values to my children. …It's as if the school is trying to 'correct' a value that our family holds. What business is it of theirs to try and change my family values?"

(http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/defending-your-values/homosexual-curriculum/one-illinois-moms-story.aspx)

Sugaree

August 4th, 2012, 01:15 AM

"The school introduced anti-bullying lessons, but really they're teaching elementary school kids about gay marriage," Candi Cushman, education analyst for Focus on the Family, told ABC. "We think parents should have the right to teach kids about it in their own way."

(http://huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/anti-bullying-laws-christian-religious-freedom_n_1406757.html)
I really doubt that sounds bad. (about quote within link)

"It's a political agenda being shoved into my school," Schulz said, "to normalize homosexuality. …I have the right to pass on my faith and my values to my children. …It's as if the school is trying to 'correct' a value that our family holds. What business is it of theirs to try and change my family values?"

(http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/defending-your-values/homosexual-curriculum/one-illinois-moms-story.aspx)

So without editing anything you've said, you're all for FOF practicing religious extremism by being a known anti-LGBT propaganda machine?

Cicero

August 4th, 2012, 01:20 AM

you're all for FOF practicing religious by being a known anti-LGBT?

they do give to other good causes, like homeless shelters, prayer in school, and many more worthy, good causes :) my parents does donate $100 a month of their paycheck and I know they agree with Focus on the Family.

Sugaree

August 4th, 2012, 02:46 AM

they do give to other good causes, like homeless shelters, prayer in school, and many more worthy, good causes :) my parents does donate $100 a month of their paycheck and I know they agree with Focus on the Family.

Prayer in school is not a good cause. That is religion infiltrating a government establishment.

Cicero

August 4th, 2012, 03:26 AM

Prayer in school is not a good cause

U have ur beliefs I have mine

Gigablue

August 4th, 2012, 06:34 AM

The bible also says that homosexuality is an abomination.

The bible also says that eating shellfish is an abomination. It's not a very good source for anything. The bible is contradictory and historically inaccurate. Many stories are simply absurd. Why should it be used to judge what is right or wrong?

U have ur beliefs I have mine

How is prayer in school a good thing? You're indoctrinating children and violating their religious freedom. You can pray in outside of school if you want. But it has no place in school. On top of that, it's a complete waste of time. Prayer achieves nothing. Students could be learning instead of praying.

FunGuy-

August 4th, 2012, 10:37 AM

If u like the damn chicken, eat the chicken. If you don't like the chicken, don't eat the stuff!!!

Sugaree

August 4th, 2012, 01:01 PM

U have ur beliefs I have mine

Nice job being a coward. Either step forward for your beliefs or stop believing in them.

If u like the damn chicken, eat the chicken. If you don't like the chicken, don't eat the stuff!!!

It's not the fucking chicken. If you think it's about that, get out of this thread.

huginnmuninn

August 4th, 2012, 01:18 PM

SaxyHaloBeast

August 4th, 2012, 02:29 PM

"Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. He is using his freedom of speech to spread hatred. That is abusing his right to freedom of speech. It's not that I'm offended by it, and I don't think laws should be made based on what offends people. I simply think he is discriminating and abusing his rights to infringe on those of others.

He does have the right to donate to them. I don't think I ever said he didn't. I simply said that for the family is an anti gay organization that I think is spreading hatred.

By not supporting equality in marriage for everyone, regardless of gender, you see discriminating against them. I say that people who are against it are ignorant because there is no valid reason to oppose it. I'm not being hateful by disagreeing with their choice and trying to end discrimination."

The first amendment to the constitution states that we have the freedom of speech. Whether you are spreading love, hatred, acceptance, or tolerance, you have the right to express yourself freely. I am part of the LDS church and TONS of people dis and bag on our church all the time. They spread lies and hate about us. I don't like it, but they have the right to say it.

Being anti-gay doesn't mean you hate gays. I am anti-gay and I don't hate gays. I don't like the idea of homosexuality and if it was my choice, it wouldn't exist but that's just me. I don't hate you or any of you. I've been taught to love everyone. "Love your enemies. Nothing annoys them more."

There are valid reasons to not believe or support gay marriage. I was raised in an environment where man+woman=marriage. That just makes sense to me. The Bible says it's not good. Entire cities were destroyed for being wicked (their sins included homosexuality). Modern day prophets teach that the family is ordained of God. Those are my reasons for not supporting it. But you see, even though I don't support the idea of gay marriage or homosexuality, I still think that marriage is something that everyone can have. Gay marriage will never be 'real' marriage in my eyes, but I know it is to others and if they want it, let them have it. The government shouldn't even be able to decide marriage in the first place. It should be decided by your religion and belief systems. You have the freedom of religion, which includes marriage.

And just one more thing. Please don't use the word ignorant to describe a religious person. Just because one believes in God and the Bible and other gospels does not make them stupid or ignorant. They just believe in something other than you based on the values they learned and picked up on. Don't label. Be fair in judgement. I just don't like seeing words like that being thrown around.

"Prayer in school is not a good cause. That is religion infiltrating a government establishment."

Praying in school and saying the pledge of allegiance are just about the same thing. When you say the pledge, you unite with others around you to say thanks for the country you live in. Prayer is saying thanks to a higher being. If you don't believe in God, don't pray with them. But if some of them do and wish to pray together, don't deny them their freedoms just like you hope that they don't deny you yours. EVERYONE deserves freedom. Not just specific people.

Please do not post twice in a row. This is considered double posting, and is against the rules. Instead, edit your first post. ~Mirage

Gordo

August 4th, 2012, 02:41 PM

Wow! I'm straight, a fairly knowledgeable Christian, I like Chic-fil-a and I don't see anything wrong with gay marriage or freedom of speech. If that guy wants to donate his money to something, who cares. He's not anti-anyone.

People are all spun up because they want to be. The division here and elsewhere is laughable.

1. Nothing is wrong with what the founder said.
2. The bible is composed of 66 books, not just a book. Hint: The old testament is pretty much a chronological collection of pre-Christian books, If ya wanna call it Jewish or something else, fine. The new testament, is a collection of Christian books.

3. So, people who call themselves Christians should focus on what Jesus Christ said and did. Whether it's about the subject homosexuality and gay marriage or not. I'll back what he said and did about it forever. If you're a Christain, that should be your focus.

Go ahead and look up what Jesus said about homosexuality. You won't find anything. It wasn't an issue.

Fact: Jesus did his ministry the last 3 years of his life. He was around 30 years old at the start of it, so he had time to see a lot of people and be around them prior to his ministry and death.

Fact: So picture this. End of 3 years of teaching. Short time before he was going to die. Could have talked about all kinds of things, even many things.

Did he talk about the 10 commandments? Nope.
What rules to follow? Nope.

He told people that were his followers to: Love one another. Period. Huddle up guys, time is short, I'm going away and you can't some with me, so let me put this in a nut shell for ya - love one and other.
The way non believers should be able to recognize a person who is following Jesus is they should be able to observe this. His goal was that his followers would behave differently than the rest. Particularly, Rome at that time.

At that time Rome was literally feeding Christians to the lions for entertainment. Jesus' message to his followers to thwart that: be meek, be humble, love one each other including the Romans.

Rome wasn't too kind to his followers at that time. Look at it now. (just sayin) Since then, Rome put permanent crosses on everything. Think about that for moment.

So it's one thing to say you're a Christian or a follower of Jesus. It's quite another to act like one.

One of my fav quotes from IDK: "the biggest cause of atheism in the world today is christians because they go out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle." Meaning they go to church and then don't bother to act, say and do as Jesus did.

Sooo... If you are a Christian, you can, maybe even should, shut your cake hole on the subject of homosexuality and gay marriage and love the people you have contact with. Not just the ones you like, but all of them. If you are unwilling to do that ya might wanna go find some other faith because condemning others isn't what Jesus told you to do and He is the basis of your faith.

-Sorry if I made ya think or was too preachy on a Saturday.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 4th, 2012, 02:45 PM

Gordo. You make a lot of good points. Freedom of speech and sexuality and what not. Very well said

FreeFall

August 4th, 2012, 02:47 PM

what about the homosexuals who are vandalizing chick-fil-a stores? Is that O.K.? All the president of chick-fil-a said was that he believed in the bible and what it said. He has the freedom to say that and donate the money any way he wants too. He hasn't tried to stop people from being gay he hasn't spread any hate all he did was say what he believed and donated money.
If the guy were forcing his opinion and openly expressing hatred, then maybe we could condone the angry LGBT members.

But we can't, they're vandalizing a store because a man has the right to his opinion and the right to spend his money how he pleases.

He has done nothing hurtful, he has spoken no slander, all he did was toss some money into donation for an organization that he believes in. He's not rejecting LGBT employees or refusing service to LGBT members.

Just because people don't agree with his beliefs or opinion does not make him evil, full of malice or ignorant.
It makes the person attacking him for what he feels, ignorant and intolerant.

Gigablue

August 5th, 2012, 12:18 PM

The first amendment to the constitution states that we have the freedom of speech. Whether you are spreading love, hatred, acceptance, or tolerance, you have the right to express yourself freely. I am part of the LDS church and TONS of people dis and bag on our church all the time. They spread lies and hate about us. I don't like it, but they have the right to say it.

I don't know about the laws in the US, but in Canada, where I live, hate speech is separate from free speech and is punishable by jail time. I think that it should by like that everywhere.

Being anti-gay doesn't mean you hate gays. I am anti-gay and I don't hate gays. I don't like the idea of homosexuality and if it was my choice, it wouldn't exist but that's just me. I don't hate you or any of you. I've been taught to love everyone. "Love your enemies. Nothing annoys them more."

Why do you dislike homosexuality? There's nothing wrong with it. Also, laws should be based on valid reasons. We can't ban things just because some people don't like them.

There are valid reasons to not believe or support gay marriage. I was raised in an environment where man+woman=marriage. That just makes sense to me. The Bible says it's not good. Entire cities were destroyed for being wicked (their sins included homosexuality). Modern day prophets teach that the family is ordained of God. Those are my reasons for not supporting it.

There are no valid reasons not to support gay marriage. The bible isn't a good source for morality. Even if you were raised to believe only men marry women and vice versa, you can change your opinion on the issue.

By the cities that were destroyed, I assume you are referring to Sodom and Gomorrah, which have never been proven to exist.

The argument of saying that the family, with a man and a woman, is ordained by god is unprovable, and therefore is not grounds for not supporting gay marriage.

And just one more thing. Please don't use the word ignorant to describe a religious person. Just because one believes in God and the Bible and other gospels does not make them stupid or ignorant. They just believe in something other than you based on the values they learned and picked up on. Don't label. Be fair in judgement. I just don't like seeing words like that being thrown around.

I don't think I ever used the word ignorant, but I apologize if I did. I simply think that the bible is filled with factual errors, historical inaccuracies, contradictions and atrocities. The idea of a god doesn't make sense with our current understanding of science, and doesn't explain anything any better than science, yet it makes an unnecessary assumption, therefore, using Occam's razor, it is unreasonable to believe there is a god.

Just because someone believes something is true doesn't make it true. I believe everyone has the right to their own opinions, not their own facts. There is either a god, or there isn't a god. Logic should therefore be used, since it isn't a value judgement. The best information to date doesn't support the hypothesis that there is a god. Therefore, while ignorant isn't the right word, I don't think that people who believe in a god are properly applying logic.

If someone has a valid, logical argument for why there is a god, I would like to see it. If someone just declares that they have faith, or that they know a god exists, I don't think they are being rational.

Magus

August 5th, 2012, 12:51 PM

The owner said he is not pro-marriage, not anti-gay.

And who cares? That's just one chain of restaurants. It's not like it's afftecting anything.

ImCoolBeans

August 5th, 2012, 02:23 PM

The owner said he is not pro-marriage, not anti-gay.

And who cares? That's just one chain of restaurants. It's not like it's afftecting anything.

Exactly.

Why are you all getting so fired up over this? It's a restaurant chain... I really don't understand why it's such a hot debate topic since it really effects nobodies life in any way. I'm gay and I really couldn't care any less than I do. Shrug and move on with your life, it's not going to make homosexuality illegal, it's not going to prevent me from spending my life with somebody I love.

Donkey

August 5th, 2012, 02:31 PM

Exactly.

Why are you all getting so fired up over this? It's a restaurant chain... I really don't understand why it's such a hot debate topic since it really effects nobodies life in any way. I'm gay and I really couldn't care any less than I do. Shrug and move on with your life, it's not going to make homosexuality illegal, it's not going to prevent me from spending my life with somebody I love.
What's the issue?

Let me take you through what the issue is, let's not be stupid. Nothing is ever that simple and some people in this thread are taking the issue for what it seems to be on the surface

Chick-fil-A uses profits based on customer transactions, some of said customers may be LGBT, to donate to anti-gay groups that can be described as hate organisations.
Chick-fil-A being anti-gay gives the impression to others that it's an OK and reasonable belief, which is what the protests are attempting to curb by showing it up. It's a huge corporate chain, it has a lot of influence socially.
It is one man with beliefs, sure, but he is using a multi million dollar organisation to fund hate speech and as a facade to give a more reputable impression for his beliefs, influencing more people.

Saying they're free to their own beliefs is true, but are they free to fund hate crime and give an influence of intolerable beliefs to an entire country. There's definitely something to protest about or at least rebel against

ImCoolBeans

August 5th, 2012, 02:38 PM

What's the issue?

Let me take you through what the issue is, let's not be stupid. Nothing is ever that simple and some people in this thread are taking the issue for what it seems to be on the surface

Chick-fil-A uses profits based on customer transactions, some of said customers may be LGBT, to donate to anti-gay groups that can be described as hate organisations.
Chick-fil-A being anti-gay gives the impression to others that it's an OK and reasonable belief, which is what the protests are attempting to curb by showing it up. It's a huge corporate chain, it has a lot of influence socially.
It is one man with beliefs, sure, but he is using a multi million dollar organisation to fund hate speech and as a facade to give a more reputable impression for his beliefs, influencing more people.

Saying they're free to their own beliefs is true, but are they free to fund hate crime and give an influence of intolerable beliefs to an entire country. There's definitely something to protest about or at least rebel against

Your first point is good, but I don't see your other two as valid. In their opinion it is a reasonable belief. For whatever reason, whether they were raised to be anti-gay, anti- gay marriage or any other belief he may hold, or he came to have those beliefs over time, they are his beliefs just as you have your belief that being gay is OK. Who are we to say that it's unreasonable for him to think that?

I'm not agreeing with him; but it's his opinion, not fact. It's not an objective topic that you can prove or disprove.

Abigballofdust

August 5th, 2012, 03:32 PM

The gay lobby strikes again. Seriously, fags have become worse than hysteric fighters for women's rights. However, I still can't find a connection between chicken and lgbt rights. I can't even understand why did Oreo give support to the gay community on the other hand. If you need my sexual orientation to make money, at least give me some of it...

Magus

August 5th, 2012, 04:49 PM

Chick-fil-A uses profits based on customer transactions, some of said customers may be LGBT, to donate to anti-gay groups that can be described as hate organisations.

Ssst. Now, that's bad, no? They fund I think what they call as ex-gay therapy camps. That's something I overlooked.

I guess this uproar is justify afterall.

Donkey

August 5th, 2012, 05:00 PM

Who are we to say that it's unreasonable for him to think that?

The majority of the Western/American population. Hence, how democracy works.

Gigablue

August 5th, 2012, 05:18 PM

Your first point is good, but I don't see your other two as valid. In their opinion it is a reasonable belief. For whatever reason, whether they were raised to be anti-gay, anti- gay marriage or any other belief he may hold, or he came to have those beliefs over time, they are his beliefs just as you have your belief that being gay is OK. Who are we to say that it's unreasonable for him to think that?

I'm not agreeing with him; but it's his opinion, not fact. It's not an objective topic that you can prove or disprove.

I say that it's an unreasonable belief because it infringes on the right of others. People should be protected from discrimination.

While his opinion may not be an objective fact, there is no valid reason to come to that belief. There is no evidence that shows that gay marriage is bad. Since he holds a discriminatory belief, in the absence of any evidence to show that his target group is bad, I feel his belief is unreasonable.

Dyl.l.

August 5th, 2012, 05:19 PM

The owner does not like gays

Vonn

August 5th, 2012, 05:31 PM

God, how I missed this.

The bible also says that homosexuality is an abomination.

The Bible says a lot of things that are completely ignored, so I'm going to ignore this.

And they're not bad people, we're talking about Christianity, the church you mightve gone to would probably be a mosque or a Buddhist temple.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was a Mormon church. Jesus' name was in the title, so.

But God makes it clear what he thinks of homosexuals. These "baaad people" are doing nothing bad, they are just using the first amendment (which I'm sure many have forgotten).

Actually, it's not very clear at all. People love to mention how the Bible is up to personal interpretation.

You can use the first amendment in a bad way. See the WBC. Freedoms can be used and abused just like everything else in this world.

Hes not bad for donating money to a good organization

I lost interest there. Show me exactly how good they are, if you please.

Tolerance isn't Apart of Christianity and it never has been.

Christianity > Christ > Jesus Christ > a loving man who tolerated others; therefore > Christianity > teachings of Christ > Jesus Christ > the guy who loved and tolerated others

Am I wrong?

Someone should tolerate sin, they should remove themselves from it. Like the scripture says (not in the Koran or Buddhist bibles) if your hand causes you to win, cut it off.

You can't remove yourself from sin. Humans are sin. We sin whether we want to or not because someone else decided it would be so.

Your not supposed to tolerate it.

Was Jesus a tolerant man or wasn't he?

So that's (somewhat) a analogy.

Congratulations.

So if someone is causing you to sin, or they're full of sin. You shouldn't take any part with them :)

You might as well refrain from interacting with the world, then.

So according to the bible, LGBT is a sin.

According to the Bible XYZ blah blah I don't care. I swear it's going to get to a point where just mentioning the Bible will send me into cardiac arrest. You either take the Bible in its entirety or not at all.

Professional Russian

August 5th, 2012, 06:24 PM

SaxyHaloBeast

August 6th, 2012, 10:30 AM

-"I don't know about the laws in the US, but in Canada, where I live, hate speech is separate from free speech and is punishable by jail time. I think that it should by like that everywhere."-

In the U.S. constitution it states we have the freedom of speech. That's it. If it's hateful, well that's their problem, but they have the right to express their minds in the way they choose.

-"Why do you dislike homosexuality? There's nothing wrong with it. Also, laws should be based on valid reasons. We can't ban things just because some people don't like them."-

Do you want my honest opinion? I don't like it because it doesn't make sense in my head. To me, (MAN + WOMAN = CHILDREN) makes a family. That's how I grew up. I never knew about homosexuality until I was about 10 or so. When I heard about it, it didn't sit right in my head. It didn't make sense to me. When I finally saw gay couples, I was grossed out. It seemed weird and strange to me and I didn't like it, but that's only because of the way my mind worked. I've never actually been a fan of being touched either so I do have homophobia. That's just the way I feel towards homosexuality.

-"There are no valid reasons not to support gay marriage. The bible isn't a good source for morality. Even if you were raised to believe only men marry women and vice versa, you can change your opinion on the issue.

By the cities that were destroyed, I assume you are referring to Sodom and Gomorrah, which have never been proven to exist.

The argument of saying that the family, with a man and a woman, is ordained by god is unprovable, and therefore is not grounds for not supporting gay marriage."-

They may not seem valid to you, but they are valid for me. The Bible isn't the only religious book I use. I use the quad (Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Docrine and Covenants + Pearl of Great Price). I believe I have a pretty good understanding of right and wrong. Homosexuality and gay marriage doesn't seem right to me, but limiting people's rights doesn't seem right either. I don't like it and I will never do it myself, but others who want to should feel free to do so.

Yes Sodom and Gomorrah were the big two. They were real places (as far as I know) and I'm sure the owner of Chik-fil-a believes that if we are like them, we could be destroyed. That is his belief and he has the right to it. I don't think we will be destroyed for it. There is a lot more wickedness and sin that has to happen before the Earth is destroyed.

When I hear the word family, I think of a mom, a dad, and a number of children. That is what a family is to me. I will never consider gay marriage to be a real marriage or family, but I wouldn't want to take away your right of having a marriage and family either. You should be able to marry, no matter what my belief on it is.

-"I don't think I ever used the word ignorant, but I apologize if I did. I simply think that the bible is filled with factual errors, historical inaccuracies, contradictions and atrocities. The idea of a god doesn't make sense with our current understanding of science, and doesn't explain anything any better than science, yet it makes an unnecessary assumption, therefore, using Occam's razor, it is unreasonable to believe there is a god.

Just because someone believes something is true doesn't make it true. I believe everyone has the right to their own opinions, not their own facts. There is either a god, or there isn't a god. Logic should therefore be used, since it isn't a value judgement. The best information to date doesn't support the hypothesis that there is a god. Therefore, while ignorant isn't the right word, I don't think that people who believe in a god are properly applying logic.

If someone has a valid, logical argument for why there is a god, I would like to see it. If someone just declares that they have faith, or that they know a god exists, I don't think they are being rational."-

I will always believe in God and I also have a good understanding of science. When you study science with a belief in God, things do go together and they make sense (at least to me). Nothing will ever stop me from believing in God. I have witnessed many miracles and felt things that could only come from God. You don't have to, but I believe He exists.

When talking about God, you can't use logic. You can't prove that He exists and you can't prove that He doesn't exist so logic doesn't work there. What you have to use is your own feelings and thoughts to decide what you believe. God is a matter of belief and faith, not logic and fact.

You want to hear a logical, factual reason to believe in God? I do because when I read the scriptures, I feel something special, something spiritual. Because with God, I feel hope that there is something good waiting for us beyond this life. With God, I feel assured that I will see those that have died again. With God, I know that life and love and family and friendship can be eternal, that nothing has to end. With God, I feel that even when things are hard and it feels like I can't make it, I know I can because there are people out there who care. Maybe it isn't completely logical or based on fact, but it means something to me. And THAT is why I believe in Him.

PleasureMe7777

August 6th, 2012, 10:50 AM

Can anyone say stupid. What a great thing to argue about.

Professional Russian

August 6th, 2012, 11:07 AM

Can anyone say stupid. What a great thing to argue about.

thats what i said

Gigablue

August 6th, 2012, 11:16 AM

In the U.S. constitution it states we have the freedom of speech. That's it. If it's hateful, well that's their problem, but they have the right to express their minds in the way they choose.

Why should you be able to spread hatred? Also, there are numerous exceptions to freedom of speech e.g. Libel, false advertising, obscenity, threats, incitement, etc. Why shouldn't hate speech be included?

Do you want my honest opinion? I don't like it because it doesn't make sense in my head. To me, (MAN + WOMAN = CHILDREN) makes a family. That's how I grew up. I never knew about homosexuality until I was about 10 or so. When I heard about it, it didn't sit right in my head. It didn't make sense to me. When I finally saw gay couples, I was grossed out. It seemed weird and strange to me and I didn't like it, but that's only because of the way my mind worked. I've never actually been a fan of being touched either so I do have homophobia. That's just the way I feel towards homosexuality.

While the feeling of attraction toward a member of my gender is foreign to me, I can understand that other people feel it. I don't know what it would feel like, but I can speculate.

There are other things that I don't like, but I don't think that I should be able to infringe on the rights of others because of that. Laws should be made based on a problem with something, not a simple dislike.

They may not seem valid to you, but they are valid for me. The Bible isn't the only religious book I use. I use the quad (Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Docrine and Covenants + Pearl of Great Price). I believe I have a pretty good understanding of right and wrong. Homosexuality and gay marriage doesn't seem right to me, but limiting people's rights doesn't seem right either. I don't like it and I will never do it myself, but others who want to should feel free to do so.

While I don't know the book of Mormon, doctrine of covenant, I do know that the bible is a terrible source for morality. It is filled with atrocities and violations of people's rights. I fail to see how it could enrich someone's morals.

Yes Sodom and Gomorrah were the big two. They were real places (as far as I know) and I'm sure the owner of Chik-fil-a believes that if we are like them, we could be destroyed. That is his belief and he has the right to it. I don't think we will be destroyed for it. There is a lot more wickedness and sin that has to happen before the Earth is destroyed.

Sodom and Gomorrah have never been proven to exist. His belief that they exist is irrational. The only source for it is a book written thousands of years ago. It defies our modern understanding of science and makes a huge assumption that a god exists, which is in and of itself an irrational belief.

When I hear the word family, I think of a mom, a dad, and a number of children. That is what a family is to me. I will never consider gay marriage to be a real marriage or family, but I wouldn't want to take away your right of having a marriage and family either. You should be able to marry, no matter what my belief on it is.

How is it not a real family? There are two parents who love each other and a number of children. Why is the gender of the parents important?

I will always believe in God and I also have a good understanding of science. When you study science with a belief in God, things do go together and they make sense (at least to me). Nothing will ever stop me from believing in God. I have witnessed many miracles and felt things that could only come from God. You don't have to, but I believe He exists.

I'm not saying that you can't merge science with a belief in god. I'm saying that science doesn't need god to explain anything. The existence of a god is an unnecessary assumption that should be discarded based on Occam's razor.

Do you have any good evidence that miracles occur? Personal experience depends on human perception, which is bad, and human memory, which is even worse. Only well controlled scientific studies could show whether they do or don't happen. Anecdotes are useless.

When talking about God, you can't use logic. You can't prove that He exists and you can't prove that He doesn't exist so logic doesn't work there. What you have to use is your own feelings and thoughts to decide what you believe. God is a matter of belief and faith, not logic and fact.

Why can't you use logic. Logic can be applied to everything that is a matter of fact. There is either a god, or there isn't a god. Therefore the existence of a god is a notated of fact. You can prove that he does exist. All he has to do is show himself to the world, or preform some unbelievable miracle. You can't really prove a negative, but an absence of evidence for the existence of something is consistent with the null hypothesis i.e. nonexistence.

You want to hear a logical, factual reason to believe in God? I do because when I read the scriptures, I feel something special, something spiritual. Because with God, I feel hope that there is something good waiting for us beyond this life. With God, I feel assured that I will see those that have died again. With God, I know that life and love and family and friendship can be eternal, that nothing has to end. With God, I feel that even when things are hard and it feels like I can't make it, I know I can because there are people out there who care. Maybe it isn't completely logical or based on fact, but it means something to me. And THAT is why I believe in Him.

You just said that a belief in god makes you happy. That doesn't make it true. I think it would be nice if there were an afterlife and eternal justice for people, but the science simply doesn't support that. I base my life as much as possible,on facts and logic, and based on the current evidence, there is no good reason to believe in god.

P.S. When you quote, don't just put it is quotation marks. The text will appear in a separate box if you click the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to quote. This makes it easier to read and differentiate between your statement and the quoted text.

Sugaree

August 6th, 2012, 03:59 PM

I love how gay rights are more important than the economy or anything else in this country... I cant believe people care so much about gay rights. Jesus christ obama do something good before you get voted and legalize gay marriage so everyone will stop bitching about it.

Personal liberty and freedom is just as important as the economic structure of the country. If you don't like it, then leave the fucking thread.

Professional Russian

August 6th, 2012, 04:01 PM

Personal liberty and freedom is just as important as the economic structure of the country. If you don't like it, then leave the fucking thread.

Gay rights dont really matter. The way i see it if you want to get married go get married i could care less i dont have any problems with gays so i dont see anything wrong with it. i dont see why people make such a big deal out of it. Just go to a state where gay marriage is legal and get married.

Sugaree

August 6th, 2012, 07:25 PM

Gay rights dont really matter. The way i see it if you want to get married go get married i could care less i dont have any problems with gays so i dont see anything wrong with it. i dont see why people make such a big deal out of it. Just go to a state where gay marriage is legal and get married.

So why should I have to move to a different state JUST to get married to my boyfriend? If it can be legal in a few states, it can be legal in all states. As I said, if you apparently don't care, just leave the damn thread.

RoseyCadaver

August 6th, 2012, 07:43 PM

I found this somewhat relevant sO-msplukrw.
May Satan have mercy on them queers.

Professional Russian

August 6th, 2012, 07:46 PM

So why should I have to move to a different state JUST to get married to my boyfriend? If it can be legal in a few states, it can be legal in all states. As I said, if you apparently don't care, just leave the damn thread.

I agree it should be legal in all states. Just to shut people up and make everyone happy so we can get back to the important things. Like the economy that sucks

RoseyCadaver

August 6th, 2012, 07:50 PM

I agree it should be legal in all states. Just to shut people up and make everyone happy so we can get back to the important things. Like the economy that sucks

Even if the marriage was legal there still would be discrimination, and hate from it. There is nothing wrong with keeping a social movement going, just like the people of color one.

If there wasn't, it wouldn't be getting any better. It'd be like if the LGB community just stopped to were everything was legal. We just need a good balance of everything. Work on the rights movement and the same time economy.

Professional Russian

August 6th, 2012, 07:55 PM

Even if the marriage was legal there still would be discrimination, and hate from it. There is nothing wrong with keeping a social movement going, just like the people of color one.

If there wasn't, it wouldn't be getting any better. It'd be like if the LGB community just stopped to were everything was legal. We just need a good balance of everything. Work on the rights movement and the same time economy.

well i dont think gays will ever be accepted there will always be the people who hate them.

Gigablue

August 6th, 2012, 08:07 PM

well i dont think gays will ever be accepted there will always be the people who hate them.

There will always be people who hate any minority group. You don't need to have everyone like each other, but you need to make sure everyone has the same rights. Just because perfection is impossible doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Professional Russian

August 6th, 2012, 08:13 PM

There will always be people who hate any minority group. You don't need to have everyone like each other, but you need to make sure everyone has the same rights. Just because perfection is impossible doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

true but i can think of some people that dont deserve rights but i aint going there because this sint the thread.

RoseyCadaver

August 6th, 2012, 10:48 PM

true but i can think of some people that dont deserve rights but i aint going there because this sint the thread.

Tell me someone who doesn't need to be treated equal, this sounds interesting.

mac42

August 6th, 2012, 10:58 PM

RoseyCadaver

August 7th, 2012, 12:31 AM

Based on what I have read about Chick-Fil-A, I am a little confused how this stance is surprising or breaking news. They have been around for a while, no? Closed on Sunday, founded on Christian values...

I really have to agree with you on that, I've known this for six monthes and now the media decides to as well and make a big spectacle about it.

When I lived in America, I was sad to find that many supporters of gay rights were the most closed minded people I met when it came to accepting that other opinions exist.
Er I would like to disagree with the part many. Many of the people in my LGBT community, and others around are very open to new idea's, as long as they respect other people and themselves. Many also recognized there are many cool Christian groups who are down with us gays(lol), I mean I go to a weekly drop in center that queer focused and takes place in a church, so I know many churches can be very supportive. Like wise, many people in my LGBT community also know that there are churches out there that don't think we deserve the right to marry and think we are corrupting the solid morals of America by wanting to be ourselves lol.

America was founded on Christian values, so it won't be an easy road, but things will change. No need to bash every differing opinion on the way.

No, it was founded upon Native values and then killed and marked off history with Christian values.

Peace God

August 7th, 2012, 01:42 AM

ya'kno im like totes against homofobia cause that's like not right 'n stuff. but like, why are people actually trying to get rid of it :confused:... gosh, so closed minded. i mean like whats with all these boycotts and things, that's like taking chik-fil-a's freedom of speech duh! just wait til stuff gets better cause us open minded people are totes against homofobia, dont be just as bad as the homofobes! :(:(

Professional Russian

August 7th, 2012, 07:33 AM

Tell me someone who doesn't need to be treated equal, this sounds interesting.

Go look in my death sentence thread. I dont think murders should get equal rights i think they should whipped and hung but appearently thats allowed.

Gigablue

August 7th, 2012, 08:04 AM

true but i can think of some people that dont deserve rights but i aint going there because this sint the thread.

Are you saying that gays and lesbians shouldn't have the same rights as others people? If yes, why? If no, how is this statement relevant to the thread?

Professional Russian

August 7th, 2012, 08:06 AM

Are you saying that gays and lesbians shouldn't have the same rights as others people? If yes, why? If no, how is this statement relevant to the thread?

check above answer. someone said everyone should have the same rights. I dont agree with that

Magus

August 7th, 2012, 08:12 AM

check above answer. someone said everyone should have the same rights. I dont agree with that

People, as in your average citizens, not murderers.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 7th, 2012, 11:30 AM

Based on what I have read about Chick-Fil-A, I am a little confused how this stance is surprising or breaking news. They have been around for a while, no? Closed on Sunday, founded on Christian values...

When I lived in America, I was sad to find that many supporters of gay rights were the most closed minded people I met when it came to accepting that other opinions exist. Nothing will be accomplished if the LGBT community cannot function without protesting and shoving their views down the throats of people who don't share their views. I come from a country where anyone can be married. This was not accomplished but constantly calling Christians bigots for having a different opinion. The gay community did not rush the process. They were given partnership rights in the 90's (which America should do to calm the issues) and eventually given full marriage rights a few year ago.

America was founded on Christian values, so it won't be an easy road, but things will change. No need to bash every differing opinion on the way.

Exactly. Change doesn't happen overnight and name-calling isn't going to help the process. You know what will get people on your side? You have to show them that you can be patient, slow-tempered, reasonable, and willing to take the time. It took blacks YEARS to earn the same rights. There are still racists out there, but hey, they have the same rights now. With homosexuals and all that, it will take time, especially with the majority of people in America being Christian, but give it time and it might happen. People will always be the way they are, you can't change them. The one person you can change is yourself and then people might follow your example until, guess what, everyone is equal. Give it time. Don't rush it. The more you push, the more people will push back.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 7th, 2012, 11:33 AM

ya'kno im like totes against homofobia cause that's like not right 'n stuff. but like, why are people actually trying to get rid of it ... gosh, so closed minded. i mean like whats with all these boycotts and things, that's like taking chik-fil-a's freedom of speech duh! just wait til stuff gets better cause us open minded people are totes against homofobia, dont be just as bad as the homofobes!

A lot of this......didn't make sense. But I can still tell that you are against homophobia. You do realize that homophobia is as real a thing as homosexuality is right? I should know. I am homophobic. How can you expect people to show homosexuals respect when you and others are insensitive to homophobia? You not respecting people who DON'T like homosexuality is just as bad as others not respecting homosexality.

Sugaree

August 7th, 2012, 11:37 AM

check above answer. someone said everyone should have the same rights. I dont agree with that

You take the word "everyone" and include murderers (like in the death sentence thread). We are talking about average citizens who go about every day trying to live their lives without being persecuted or victimized because of their sexuality.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 7th, 2012, 11:38 AM

Professional Russian

August 7th, 2012, 12:03 PM

You take the word "everyone" and include murderers (like in the death sentence thread). We are talking about average citizens who go about every day trying to live their lives without being persecuted or victimized because of their sexuality.

Everyone Refers to Everyone. Murders or not. its everyone.You cant expect me to just come and see everyone and oh they only mean people that arent murderers

Peace God

August 7th, 2012, 01:17 PM

You not respecting people who DON'T like homosexuality is just as bad as others not respecting homosexality.
amazing how many times something like this has been said, its the most insulting complacent load of shit ideology ever. it says that we deserve and ask for bigotry, get this... because of our bad attitude towards it. and this is how people react to PEACEFUL and CIVIL protests of all things. "a boycott and a kiss-in? those fucking faggots have some nerve, its no wonder people hate them"

everything warrants respect and tolerance? bullshit. the whole point is to not respect it, make a place where people are too uncomfortable to practice it and a society where it no longer matters how anti-gays choose to react to our voices and protests. the worst way of going about it is to just hope that people gradually stop dehumanizing, beating and killing us. it won't go away on it's own and that's made abundantly clear by the huge number so called lgbt supporters who suddenly shat on us for insulting their favorite chicken restaurant.

homophobia = always worse than anti-homophobia. it's not fucking rocket science, it's not complex political theory, it's common sense and basic human decency. use your brains man.

Gigablue

August 7th, 2012, 02:11 PM

And Gigablue. Can you at least respect the fact that I truely believe and know that there is a God? You can go on believing whatever you want. Can you accept that no matter how strange it may seem to you, it makes perfect sense to me? If you can't, then you are the ignorant one. If you can, then you are being sensible and reasonable. I can accept the way you believe. I disagree with it, but I understand where you are coming from. Can you do the same for me?

How can you know there is a god without any evidence? If your belief makes perfect sense to you, you should be able to explain it. I would accept that you hold a belief which seems bizarre in the absence of evidence if you didn't use it to argue a point. Since you are using it to argue a point about same sex marriage, I can't simply respect it. Unless you can prove that your belief is correct, it is not a valid argument against same sex marriage.

Abigballofdust

August 7th, 2012, 03:00 PM

A lot of this......didn't make sense. But I can still tell that you are against homophobia. You do realize that homophobia is as real a thing as homosexuality is right? I should know. I am homophobic. How can you expect people to show homosexuals respect when you and others are insensitive to homophobia? You not respecting people who DON'T like homosexuality is just as bad as others not respecting homosexality.
Hang on.
So, you're homophobic and you say it is as real as homosexuality. I understand that by saying such a thing you mean that being homophobic wasn't your choice as being gay wasn't mine? Can you explain what makes you homophobic if it was a choice? What is your view on homosexuals and why I can't earn your respect when sexual orientation comes in play?
Also, once you tell me why you are repulsed by me, tell me why should I respect your opinion since it openly hurts me?
Should a woman accept a misogynist because he is entitled to an opinion even if he openly hates women?

Gigablue

August 7th, 2012, 03:39 PM

A lot of this......didn't make sense. But I can still tell that you are against homophobia. You do realize that homophobia is as real a thing as homosexuality is right? I should know. I am homophobic. How can you expect people to show homosexuals respect when you and others are insensitive to homophobia? You not respecting people who DON'T like homosexuality is just as bad as others not respecting homosexality.

Did anyone ever say homophobia wasn't real? I think the existence of homophobia is one of the only things everyone in this thread can agree on. However, existence doesn't mean something is worthy of respect. Racism is real, but shouldn't be respected. How is homophobia any different? You are discriminating against someone based on something they can't change and that is in no way bad. Maybe if homosexuality was bad you would have some reason to hate it, but since there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, your belief is unfounded. Why is homophobia, a discriminatory belief, worthy of respect?

huginnmuninn

August 7th, 2012, 04:04 PM

Jess

August 7th, 2012, 08:00 PM

if a phobia is a fear so shouldn't homophobia be a fear of homosexuals...miso means hate so shouldn't a hatred of homosexual be misohomo? just throwing that out there...
what is this thread turning into?

I'm thinking that sometimes fear could become hate. Like if you have arachnophobia, you fear spiders, but then you can hate them.

ya'kno im like totes against homofobia cause that's like not right 'n stuff. but like, why are people actually trying to get rid of it ... gosh, so closed minded. i mean like whats with all these boycotts and things, that's like taking chik-fil-a's freedom of speech duh! just wait til stuff gets better cause us open minded people are totes against homofobia, dont be just as bad as the homofobes!

A lot of this......didn't make sense. But I can still tell that you are against homophobia. You do realize that homophobia is as real a thing as homosexuality is right? I should know. I am homophobic. How can you expect people to show homosexuals respect when you and others are insensitive to homophobia? You not respecting people who DON'T like homosexuality is just as bad as others not respecting homosexality.

why should homophobia get any respect?

huginnmuninn

August 7th, 2012, 10:58 PM

I'm thinking that sometimes fear could become hate. Like if you have arachnophobia, you fear spiders, but then you can hate them.

i know but i like the way that misohomo sounds... it makes me laugh.

SaxyHaloBeast

August 7th, 2012, 11:00 PM

Homophobia as in: fear or uneasy feelings towards homosexuality.

I have that. I don't feel comfortable around gays. The idea of is strange and foreign to me and I don't like it. I can't change my opinion on gays any easier than you guys can change your opinions on gay marriage. The way I feel about homosexuality and how it bothers me is as much a part of me as is the passion you guys feel for gay rights.

Fine. You know what? I don't like homosexuality. I wish it didn't exist. But because it does and because I know that you guys are people too, I know that you have the same rights as me. You want to be gay? Then be gay. You want to be marry? Go ahead and get married. I never will like it or support it, but I won't stop you.

Gigablue. The thing is, I don't need evidence to know there is a God. When you feel His spirit, you know exactly what it is you are feeling. I've felt it and I can't/won't deny that I have. But you know, the evidence is all around you. Do you think this universe just....happened? Do you really think that out of ALL the planets that Earth was magically the only one that could sustain life? Did our entire existence just come about by pure chance? I believe there is a God with a reason for everything. If you can prove to me and provide solid evidence that everything's creation was caused by luck, chance, or something other than God, then I will stop believing in Him. But until then, I stick true to my beliefs because as far as I'm concerned, what I know is the truth.

WaffleSingSong

August 7th, 2012, 11:06 PM

I know I said my point earlier, but I want to post a more evolved answer.

But, Personally, Both sides of the argument make my blood boil. The gays, because they are attacking there free speech to do so. And the Christians, because there getting a sandwich just to raspberry gays, which is not Christian at all. If I wanted to do something Christian buy buying a sandwich, I would give it to a homeless person.

Both sides need to realize that there are different sides to the story, and they have developed that side for a reason. It's up to them to respect those reasons much like they want there reasons to be respected.

Abigballofdust

August 8th, 2012, 02:33 AM

Homophobia as in: fear or uneasy feelings towards homosexuality.

I have that. I don't feel comfortable around gays. The idea of is strange and foreign to me and I don't like it. I can't change my opinion on gays any easier than you guys can change your opinions on gay marriage. The way I feel about homosexuality and how it bothers me is as much a part of me as is the passion you guys feel for gay rights.

Fine. You know what? I don't like homosexuality. I wish it didn't exist. But because it does and because I know that you guys are people too, I know that you have the same rights as me. You want to be gay? Then be gay. You want to be marry? Go ahead and get married. I never will like it or support it, but I won't stop you.

As opposed to homosexuality, which cannot be cured (given there's something to cure) phobias can be looked into and you can discover the root of your unpleasant feelings towards gays.
Now, tell me please, how do you distinguish a gay person from 'normal' people? How do you know whether or not to feel uncomfortable when approached by somebody?
Let's say you're racist: you see a black person and you are repulsed by it, but you see me walking down the road, I'm not flamboyant, I wear nothing pink, my voice sounds normal and I'm probably surrounded by a mixed group of friends as opposed to girls only cliques. How do you know to be repulsed by me? Let's say we become close friends, go out, have fun, crash at each other's place, make a bond. One day I'm comfortable enough to tell you I'm gay, do you break our friendship only because you're repulsed by them? Was it then not a friendship?

Gigablue

August 8th, 2012, 07:08 AM

Gigablue. The thing is, I don't need evidence to know there is a God. When you feel His spirit, you know exactly what it is you are feeling. I've felt it and I can't/won't deny that I have.

You do need evidence to k ow something. You can't just assert something is true without being able to support it. You saying you have felt his spirit is just anecdotal evidence, which is highly unreliable.

But you know, the evidence is all around you. Do you think this universe just....happened? Do you really think that out of ALL the planets that Earth was magically the only one that could sustain life? Did our entire existence just come about by pure chance?

We don't know exactly what caused the big bang, which caused the universe, but just because we don't know something is no reason to declare god did it. There have been lots of things that we used to not know and found out using science. There is no reason to think that we will never be able to explain the origin of the universe.

Who said the earth is the only planet that could sustain life? There could be many planets which could. Also, science can explain how humans got here. There are good hypotheses about the formation of the first cells. These explain the origin of life without needing to resort to a creator. Once life arose, evolution took over and created all the diversity of life today. This isn't pure chance either. Yes, the mutations selected for or against by evolution are random, but natural selection isn't a random process.

I believe there is a God with a reason for everything. If you can prove to me and provide solid evidence that everything's creation was caused by luck, chance, or something other than God, then I will stop believing in Him.

I can't prove that there is no god, but I can show that there is a perfectly valid explanation for the origin of the universe. Your belief makes an extra assumption, that there is a god, while the scientific explanation makes no such assumption. They can both explain the origin of everything, therefore, using Occam's razor, we should reject the hypothesis which makes unnecessary assumptions.

But until then, I stick true to my beliefs because as far as I'm concerned, what I know is the truth.

You are basically saying I will believe what I do because I know it's right. You can use this to justify any belief, whether correct or otherwise. If you know you are correct, you must have good evidence to support your belief. If you have such evidence, you should be able to show it to others and convince any rational person. If you don't have such evidence, you don't know you are right, you only think it.

Cicero

August 11th, 2012, 04:07 AM

So why should I have to move to a different state JUST to get married to my boyfriend? If it can be legal in a few states, it can be legal in all states. As I said, if you apparently don't care, just leave the damn thread.

its legal in a lot of states. if a gay wants to get married in a church, its that churches choice to marry them. for sure no catholic church would marry them, and probably no christian church either. if a church doesnt wanna marry gays, its their choice and theirs nothing wrong with it either.

Gigablue

August 11th, 2012, 10:42 AM

its legal in a lot of states. if a gay wants to get married in a church, its that churches choice to marry them. for sure no catholic church would marry them, and probably no christian church either. if a church doesnt wanna marry gays, its their choice and theirs nothing wrong with it either.

It should be a churches choice to marry them, but they should still be able to be married in all states by a judge. This doesn't really address the issue of why it should be legal in all states. No one was really saying churches shouldn't be able to object.

level_up

August 11th, 2012, 06:08 PM

I obviously disagree with the Chicken guy, but it's also his right to say whatever he thinks and so I don't have much of an opinion about it. I don't eat at that place and I doubt any self-respecting gay guy ever would lol, but that's because it's horrible for you! If I had been a fan of the place before this whole thing went down, I doubt I would stop eating there now because of what he said.

Anyways, no one should really care what one bigoted person says or let it ruin their day or anything.

havingfun

August 11th, 2012, 06:46 PM

Gigablue

August 11th, 2012, 07:30 PM

There are 2 different concepts: Tolerance and acceptance. Tolerance is respecting and acknowledging their lifestyle even if you don't agree with it. Acceptance is agreeing with the lifstyle. You can tolerate without accepting, which is where the true Christian stance is.

You always refer to homosexuality as a lifestyle, which it isn't. It's not a choice, which the word lifestyle implies, but a part of who someone is.

Why wouldn't you accept homosexuality. There is no valid reason not to. Simply because you don't like something is no reason to tell someone not to do it.

Aves

August 11th, 2012, 07:38 PM

You always refer to homosexuality as a lifestyle, which it isn't. It's not a choice, which the word lifestyle implies, but a part of who someone is.

Why wouldn't you accept homosexuality. There is no valid reason not to. Simply because you don't like something is no reason to tell someone not to do it.

There are several reasons why not to accept something. If you ask me, the owner is simply doing what he pleases with his money and should be allowed to do so. There's always going to be someone that opposes your viewpoint, even if it's one that only seems logical, and they have just as much right to support and be proud of it as you. He just happens to have more money because he worked hard for it.

Levy

August 12th, 2012, 01:57 AM

People have blown it out of proportion, it is ridiculous; Chick-Fil-A has the right to state what they want to. Now, I don't care if they don't support gays, same with Oreo supporting gays. Now I'm off to go grab a Chick-Fil-A sandwich and stuff oreos in it and eat like a little happy fat kid.

Twilly F. Sniper

August 12th, 2012, 01:02 PM

Just don't eat at a chick fil a

huginnmuninn

August 12th, 2012, 01:31 PM

Just don't eat at a chick fil a

why not? they have better chicken than KFC and Popeyes put together

Twilly F. Sniper

August 12th, 2012, 01:35 PM

why not? they have better chicken than KFC and Popeyes put together

The problem in discussion.

havingfun

August 12th, 2012, 07:23 PM

You always refer to homosexuality as a lifestyle, which it isn't. It's not a choice, which the word lifestyle implies, but a part of who someone is.

Why wouldn't you accept homosexuality. There is no valid reason not to. Simply because you don't like something is no reason to tell someone not to do it.

Why, you ask? Because I have seen the ugly side of homosexuality. I had 2 members of my family MOLESTED by gays. One was a great uncle back in the 1960's and another was in my immediate family. Both have been scarred for life, and have told me things that happened that I cannot repeat here. They were two totally seperate and unrelated incidents. So when your 2 main encounters with homosexuality are like that, then I have every right to see something wrong with it.

Now tell me that I do not have a valid reason.

StoppingTime

August 12th, 2012, 07:28 PM

Why, you ask? Because I have seen the ugly side of homosexuality. I had 2 members of my family MOLESTED by gays. One was a great uncle back in the 1960's and another was in my immediate family. Both have been scarred for life, and have told me things that happened that I cannot repeat here. They were two totally seperate and unrelated incidents. So when your 2 main encounters with homosexuality are like that, then I have every right to see something wrong with it.

Now tell me that I do not have a valid reason.

You do not have a valid reason.
--

You are making an assumption that gay people are molesters, and that there is no good side. Let me tell you something: there's an ugly side to every type of person.
You are making stereotypical judgements because of two isolated cases in your own life, not what happens in the rest of the world.
It's like saying that since Hitler was German, all Germans are therefore ruthless murderers. You can't base a judgement on people from individual cases.

havingfun

August 12th, 2012, 07:38 PM

You do not have a valid reason.
--

You are making an assumption that gay people are molesters, and that there is no good side. Let me tell you something: there's an ugly side to every type of person.
You are making stereotypical judgements because of two isolated cases in your own life, not what happens in the rest of the world.
It's like saying that since Hitler was German, all Germans are therefore ruthless murderers. You can't base a judgement on people from individual cases.

You win the prize for invoking Godown's Law.

So using your analogy, the people who are atheists because they think that all religious people are throat shoving hypocritical zealots are just as stereotypically judgemental.

I have stated my reasons, they are legitimate, and if you do not agree with those reasons, TOO BAD! You will not change what my family has experienced and gone through, and I have the right to my opinions.

Professional Russian

August 12th, 2012, 07:46 PM

And they could have also been "MOLESTED" by straights. Both gay and straight people molest kids everyday in the world, and it doesn't have to do with gender.

that is 100% true. i agree

StoppingTime

August 12th, 2012, 07:47 PM

You win the prize for invoking Godown's Law.

So using your analogy, the people who are atheists because they think that all religious people are throat shoving hypocritical zealots are just as stereotypically judgemental.

That made less than no sense.

I have stated my reasons, they are legitimate,

>I said they are legitimate.
>They are legitimate.

You saying your reasons are right gives me all the more reasons to think the opposite.
...

and if you do not agree with those reasons, TOO BAD! You will not change what my family has experienced and gone through, and I have the right to my opinions.

I never denied you "your rights to your opinions" no matter how illogical they may be. If you enter a debate forum, prepare to actually debate. Not just "These are my opinions, if you don't like them, go away."

havingfun

August 12th, 2012, 08:02 PM

That made less than no sense.

>I said they are legitimate.
>They are legitimate.

You saying your reasons are right gives me all the more reasons to think the opposite.
...

I never denied you "your rights to your opinions" no matter how illogical they may be. If you enter a debate forum, prepare to actually debate. Not just "These are my opinions, if you don't like them, go away."

I see your opinions as just as illogical. I did not say go away, I just said too bad. And show me where you have backed up what you said in debate, because I cannot see it. So don't say I cannot debate, because I can blow you out of the water in debate if you want me to.

And they could have also been "MOLESTED" by straights. Both gay and straight people molest kids everyday in the world, and it doesn't have to do with gender.

The Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1992 edition-a clearly unbiased source-stated that a child is 8 times more likely to be molested by a homosexual than a straight, with 15 times more individual incidents. So you cannot tell me that there is no correlation between the two. Why didn't you hear of the Catholic priests molesting little girls? Jerry Sandusky? Sure the 2 incidents in my family could be coincidental, but I don't see that being the case.

deadpie

August 12th, 2012, 08:05 PM

Can anyone explain to me why a food business has to explain their moral views on homosexuality to the public?

havingfun

August 12th, 2012, 08:08 PM

Can anyone explain to me why a food business has to explain their moral views on homosexuality to the public?

They shouldn't have to, the guy was backed into a corner and had to answer.

deadpie

August 12th, 2012, 08:16 PM

They shouldn't have to, the guy was backed into a corner and had to answer.

Lol you never had to answer. You could just say, "We're in the business of food, not politics, we don't have a view on homosexuality." Simple and business-like. Then you have to remember who runs Chick Fil A I guess and it's no surprise.

Professional Russian

August 12th, 2012, 08:22 PM

I see your opinions as just as illogical. I did not say go away, I just said too bad. And show me where you have backed up what you said in debate, because I cannot see it. So don't say I cannot debate, because I can blow you out of the water in debate if you want me to.

Not to be insensitive or anything but you cant back your story up either there is no proof from what i see. you could easily say that just to try to get people on your side. IM not trying to be mean but its not believable until there's proof.

Greg1994

August 12th, 2012, 08:25 PM

I'm just gonna chime in here, I don't like Chick-Fil-A anyways, so I don't eat it and don't plan on it...

Cicero

August 12th, 2012, 08:39 PM

Lol you never had to answer. You could just say, "We're in the business of food, not politics, we don't have a view on homosexuality." Simple and business-like. Then you have to remember who runs Chick Fil A I guess and it's no surprise.

Originally, he said hes viewpoints to a CHRISTIAN magazine. Then the secular media got it out of proportion. And actually, he was just saying what Chick Fil A and he believed in and theres nothing wrong with it. Its just how Tyson Chicken is a Christian company, Forever 21 is a Christian company, Hobby Lobby is a Christian company, and In and Out is a Christian company. Many other companies are proud for their support of LGBT, so why cant another company be proud of something that differs?

havingfun

August 12th, 2012, 08:49 PM

Not to be insensitive or anything but you cant back your story up either there is no proof from what i see. you could easily say that just to try to get people on your side. IM not trying to be mean but its not believable until there's proof.

I have seen the proof firsthand, and the effects of it. Of course I cannot show you the proof of molestation since that is kinda impossible (especially since my great uncle died a couple of years ago), but why would I make something like that up? It would be kinda sick if I did. After awhile, you start putting 2 and 2 together and you open your eyes to the things that have been hidden from a PC media- the things that they are afraid to expose. Because of these incidents, I have done a lot of study on homosexuality- term papers and stuff and it has created a lot of waves at school. But as long as I am telling the truth, there is nothing they can do.

World Eater

August 12th, 2012, 11:05 PM

So the COO doesn't like same-sex marriage...oh well. I'm still eating at Chick-fil-A and I'm still going to support gays.

Cicero

August 12th, 2012, 11:43 PM

So the COO doesn't like same-sex marriage...oh well. I'm still eating at Chick-fil-A and I'm still going to support gays.

Hes the president. Not Chief Operating Officer

World Eater

August 13th, 2012, 12:15 AM

Hes the president. Not Chief Operating Officer

He's actually both.

vitorioso

August 13th, 2012, 03:11 AM

I never ate there. Is it located only in the southern United States?

Cicero

August 13th, 2012, 03:35 AM

I never ate there. Is it located only in the southern United States?

nope

Listed MIA

August 13th, 2012, 06:26 AM

The Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1992 edition-a clearly unbiased source-stated that a child is 8 times more likely to be molested by a homosexual than a straight, with 15 times more individual incidents. So you cannot tell me that there is no correlation between the two. Why didn't you hear of the Catholic priests molesting little girls? Jerry Sandusky? Sure the 2 incidents in my family could be coincidental, but I don't see that being the case.

Dude, you are completely confused. Paedophilia and sexuality are two COMPLETELY different things.

A paedophile is a person who is attracted to children, maybe boys, maybe girls or maybe both. A homosexual is just the same as a hetrosexual in that they're not attracted to children, just that they prefer people (as in adults or people their own age) of their own gender.

Sure, girls were/are molested by catholic priests. And i believe that Jerry Sandusky dude was straight. He was married wasn't he? Man who molests boys =/= homosexual.

If you have a link to the study you mentioned can you send it to me? i'd be interested to read it.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with fast food chicken. i don't have an opinion on the original post. Its not something i can really imagine happening here in the UK. But i do boycott companies if i dont like their ethics. Nestle being the main one.

Twilly F. Sniper

August 13th, 2012, 06:58 AM

He's actually both the president and the COO.

In the words of Homer Simpson: D'oh

Cicero

August 13th, 2012, 07:50 AM

What Chick-Fil-A has done, is made a big financial gain. Heres why: :thumbsup:

Pay Dirt: Do you think Dan Cathy knew what he was doing when he made that statement the first time?

Martin Lindstrom: It seemed like an off-the-cuff comment.

Rob Frankel: I’ll bet next week’s paycheck that it was not deliberate. There are few if any brands that possess the strategic intellectual or creative capacity for plotting something like this. This is like a contained nuclear explosion. You’ve really got to know what you’re doing.

How will this impact the company?

Lindstrom: There are a lot of people who had never even heard of Chick-fil-A before. With the help of social media, millions more people in the U.S. and around the world know about the brand. All those people showing up in favor of the fast-food chain last week is a sign of that.

Frankel: The brand of Chick-fil-A will benefit tremendously from this. In most cases, the actions of the CEO have very little to do with the overall performance of the brand. I predict it will actually increase its revenue and growth in one to two years.

Why do you think this controversy is a good thing?

Lindstrom: It creates a sense of belonging for consumers. Supporting a brand defines who you are and who you are not. That’s why people turned up in the thousands to buy [sandwiches] at Chick-fil-A. What has that got to do with sexual relationships and marriage? Not a lot. But it’s a way for people to show their opinion and be part of a community.

Frankel: More people have now heard about Chick-fil-A. They won’t necessarily go hunting for a Chick-fil-A sandwich, but when there are four fast-food chains to choose from, they will be curious about their sandwiches. Are they as crunchy as the chicken you get at KFC? Some people will want to find out.

:groupwave:

SaxyHaloBeast

August 13th, 2012, 11:04 AM

Some people don't like homosexuality. That's it. It seems weird and strange and gross to some people and they have every right to feel that way just like you have the right to like homosexuality if you want to. Some people are super loyal to their religion. If their religion says no homosexuality, well then odds are that they won't support homosexuality. Everyone has their own beliefs and are entitled to their own opinions. Whether you like it or not, people are going to disagree. Gay marriage may never be full legal. Only time will tell what happens. Whatever happens, this conflict is going to go on for a long time.

Ambrosia

August 13th, 2012, 11:10 AM

Dude, you are completely confused. Paedophilia and sexuality are two COMPLETELY different things.

A paedophile is a person who is attracted to children, maybe boys, maybe girls or maybe both. A homosexual is just the same as a hetrosexual in that they're not attracted to children, just that they prefer people (as in adults or people their own age) of their own gender.

Sure, girls were/are molested by catholic priests. And i believe that Jerry Sandusky dude was straight. He was married wasn't he? Man who molests boys =/= homosexual.

If you have a link to the study you mentioned can you send it to me? i'd be interested to read it.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with fast food chicken. i don't have an opinion on the original post. Its not something i can really imagine happening here in the UK. But i do boycott companies if i dont like their ethics. Nestle being the main one.
Your right! It has NOTHING to do with fast food chicken, so it should have been kept on topic or not posted at all. Sooo :) Stay on topic!!

Alliegator

August 13th, 2012, 12:25 PM

That's dumb. Why stop eating at a restaurant just cause the owner doesn't agree with something?

People dont want to eat there because you give them you money and they take your money and they donate it to anti-gay marriage foundations and stuff.

Cicero

August 13th, 2012, 06:43 PM

People dont want to eat there because you give them you money and they take your money and they donate it to anti-gay marriage foundations and stuff.

they dont just give it away. a chain restaurant doesnt work like that, a chain restaurant works by buying all the trademark stuff such as name, cups, plates, bags etc. Then they probably pay a monthly fee to keep the trademark name. Then that money goes to the HQ of the trademark company. Then they pay all their employees then a percentage goes to the higher up people such as CEO, COO, CFO, President, etc. Then the President and COO chooses what he does with HIS money. Honestly, if he wanted he can take the money from his OWN company because its HIS company that HE OWNS. Just how a restaurant owner can eat at his OWN restaurant for FREE, if the owner wanted, he could take money from the cash register cause its HIS OWN MONEY. As long as the employees get paid and the bills get paid there is nothing bad about taking money from a company. They dont even discriminate against gays. They hire gay workers to work at their companies. But as i said in my other post, chick fil a has prbably made a huge gain from it.

Lovesbeingnaked

August 13th, 2012, 11:54 PM

Cicero

August 14th, 2012, 12:02 AM

1. The real problem people have with Chik-Fil-a is that its donated roughly 2 million dollars a year toward anti-gay groups including groups that set out to "cure homosexuals"

2. You really can't compare groups that support equality to a group that wants to oppress equality they're two completely different things. If I said that I hated a specific minority group (Jews, Blacks, whatever, etc) would that be okay? No it wouldn't.

People should really read this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/5-simple-facts-about-chick-fil-a_b_1751404.html
he donates, the amount doesnt matter. he probably makes $50 million a year, so $2 million dollars for him, is like someone donating $2000 a year if they make $50,000 a year. so people dislike it cause he makes more money and he donates more than others. its the principle, not the amount. But still, its a free country

Chelsea Handler who advocates LGBT very much said something that seems pretty true. Though there are a lot of pro lgbt businesses, they arent that passive in being pro. wheras the pro traditional marriage/christian businesses are very agressive in what they believe in, like chick fil a. They do a lot for the christian community, whereas other lgbt pro businesses, do very little. Remember, this is a variation of what Chelsea handler said, she is very pro lgbt and lives with a lesbian, as she says.

Twilly F. Sniper

August 14th, 2012, 07:03 AM

People dont want to eat there because you give them you money and they take your money and they donate it to anti-gay marriage foundations and stuff.

Yeah that was my point. IF IT'S A PROBLEM DON'T EAT THERE. When will these people understand that boycotts like this are most successful with these types of protests?

Cicero

August 14th, 2012, 07:14 AM

Yeah that was my point. IF IT'S A PROBLEM DON'T EAT THERE. When will these people understand that boycotts like this are most successful with these types of protests?

As ive already said, chick fil a has probably benefited from this more than ever. they basically got free advertising and such, its all in my other post

Abigballofdust

August 14th, 2012, 05:03 PM

As opposed to homosexuality, which cannot be cured (given there's something to cure) phobias can be looked into and you can discover the root of your unpleasant feelings towards gays.
Now, tell me please, how do you distinguish a gay person from 'normal' people? How do you know whether or not to feel uncomfortable when approached by somebody?
Let's say you're racist: you see a black person and you are repulsed by it, but you see me walking down the road, I'm not flamboyant, I wear nothing pink, my voice sounds normal and I'm probably surrounded by a mixed group of friends as opposed to girls only cliques. How do you know to be repulsed by me? Let's say we become close friends, go out, have fun, crash at each other's place, make a bond. One day I'm comfortable enough to tell you I'm gay, do you break our friendship only because you're repulsed by them? Was it then not a friendship?
Need to quote myself here as I have no way to respond to the person that gave me the -Rep, hopefully he/she is still reading.

its not that easy curing a phobia as you say it is, your a very closed minded human being, who thinks being gay cannot be fixed, when it can
I never said a phobia was easy to cure, I just said it was curable, you only need a good psychologist to help you see into yourself, or you can even do it yourself.
Show me scientific proof that being gay can be cured. Also, show me scientific proof that being gay is something to be fixed in the first place.

Sugaree

August 14th, 2012, 06:44 PM

As ive already said, chick fil a has probably benefited from this more than ever. they basically got free advertising and such, its all in my other post

And there you are applauding Chick-Fil-A's success.

Cicero

August 14th, 2012, 07:30 PM

And there you are applauding Chick-Fil-A's success.

i wouldnt say exactly tht, but it was pretty smart of them. as my previous quote said it was a "contained nuclear bomb/explosion". But chick fil a is also helping the economy by doing so well, hundreds of thousands of employees they have probably even millions. But if a chick fil a was near me on chick fil a day, i would probably go to chick fil a the next day to show my support :D (i would never wait in line for a long time to many things, except indiana jones at disney land, classic ride)

Sudds3

August 19th, 2012, 12:57 AM

I love CFA because they have good food, I am for gay marriage too and I completely supposrt the gay community, but you cannot get me to stop going somewhere I enjoy eating because of a belief they have. It's discrimination of religion or state of mind or beliefs all over again!

I know plenty of my Cahtolic friends who don't eat at CFA because they don't support gays, and it's just turning Catholics against other Catholics and people against CFA because they feel a certain way about something! It's completely absurd! It's freedom of speech, people shouldn't be persecuted for what they say or believe. But then people also shouldn't be persecuted for what they do to protest that as long as they do it peacefully.

So that's my view on the whole CFA thingymajig.

Truth

August 19th, 2012, 06:09 PM

Twilly F. Sniper

August 19th, 2012, 09:00 PM

TheWaterPrince

August 20th, 2012, 03:01 PM

Im not good with long winded explanations so I'll keep this simple. The owner of the company is anti-gay marriage and he announced it so people who were for decided to protest by not eating there and it did no damage because I was at one not long after and it was packed.

Cicero

August 22nd, 2012, 12:46 AM

OP, you're ridiculous. You're supposedly for gay rights, yet you are congratulating on the company for being closed minded, spreading the closed mindedness, and attempting to make it impossible for gays to live a normal life?

Are you for real? Nothing you can say can justify their corporations morals.

i've never said im for or against gay rights. Theyre not closed minded, but i believe your closed minded. if you were open minded, you would see why they believe what they believe insteado of bashing them for being closed minded.

Truth

August 22nd, 2012, 03:53 AM

i've never said im for or against gay rights. Theyre not closed minded, but i believe your closed minded. if you were open minded, you would see why they believe what they believe insteado of bashing them for being closed minded. It doesn't work like that, my friend.

Just because I think you and Chick-Fil-A CEO's are ignorant due to the fact that you ignore the biological and scientific reasons as to why being gay is determined before you're even born, and then criticize those people who are born that way in the same way a person would make fun of a mentally handicapped child - does not mean that I am ignorant.

It means that I realize that homosexuality is part of nature, always has been, and always will be, and that I am open minded to the biology of a human.

While you guys... are still ignorant.

Cicero

August 22nd, 2012, 04:04 AM

It doesn't work like that, my friend.

Just because I think you and Chick-Fil-A CEO's are ignorant due to the fact that you ignore the biological and scientific reasons as to why being gay is determined before you're even born, and then criticize those people who are born that way in the same way a person would make fun of a mentally handicapped child - does not mean that I am ignorant.

It means that I realize that homosexuality is part of nature, always has been, and always will be, and that I am open minded to the biology of a human.

While you guys... are still ignorant.

we arent ignorant, we believe something different, but your proving how closed minded you are for not accepting our beliefs.

Truth

August 22nd, 2012, 05:31 AM

Your not willing to accept our viewpoints then. Which makes you ignorant too. This is just a question, if something is natural, why would anyone look down on it or make fun of it? Supposedly, Straight marriage is natural, yet no one looks down on it or thinks its weird. Kissing a woman when your a man, is supposedly natural. No one looks and thinks eww, or thats weird, whereas if two guys are kissing, people look at it as weird and eww. If its natural, no one should have a problem with it, so why do people have a problem with it if it claims to be natural? People have a problem with teenagers having sex, but it's natural?

People have a problem with marijuana, but it's natural?

People have a problem with magic mushrooms, but it's natural?

... are you serious? You think that whether or not an ignorant group of people who bases their opinions on a fake book written by ignorant people likes something determines whether it's natural or not?

Being gay is just as natural as being straight. Just as you can't hate all green eyed people just because it's "natural" to have blue eyes.

I mean you are kidding, right? Your logic wouldn't make sense to a 2 year old.

Cicero

August 22nd, 2012, 07:54 AM

People have a problem with teenagers having sex, but it's natural?

People have a problem with marijuana, but it's natural?

People have a problem with magic mushrooms, but it's natural?

... are you serious? You think that whether or not an ignorant group of people who bases their opinions on a fake book written by ignorant people likes something determines whether it's natural or not?

Being gay is just as natural as being straight. Just as you can't hate all green eyed people just because it's "natural" to have blue eyes.

I mean you are kidding, right? Your logic wouldn't make sense to a 2 year old.

its closed minded you call it 'fake book'. you believe christians are closed minded, but look at yourself, you cannot accept Christians beliefs and you offend many by calling it a 'fake book'. that sounds very closed minded... and when you say "you guys are ignorant" i didnt say what i believe. i have stayed balanced the whole time. i have just said, that its chick fil a's right to donate to whatever group they believe in (and if you have looked into that group, they have also gave attention to school issues such as sex education, which Focus on the Family, believes the parents should talk about it if they want, and that the school shouldnt decide on that issue of sex. they have also given to countless homeless shelters). and if anything, chick fil a has benefited from the whole 'issue' (which it isnt an issue, cause they dont discriminate against ANYONE, they hire lgbt people). i have also said, that it was a smart business move. im not attacking them like you are (which is also closed minded of you.)

Thunderstorm

August 22nd, 2012, 10:59 AM

I support Gay marriage. We don't have Chick Fil A here (Long Island, Ny)anyways. They have them in NYC, and there was a whole thing where a representitive in the city wanted to ban all the Chick Fil A's. I recently came back from down South, and the Chick Fil a's down there seemed as crowded as ever. But it's not very popular up here to begin with, and especially in a Pro-Gay city, like NYC, so I think that the CEO sayign thsi publicly will reduce revenue for certain areas of the country, but other areas will not be affected, such as Southern states.

Truth

August 22nd, 2012, 06:59 PM

its closed minded you call it 'fake book'. you believe christians are closed minded, but look at yourself, you cannot accept Christians beliefs and you offend many by calling it a 'fake book'. that sounds very closed minded... and when you say "you guys are ignorant" i didnt say what i believe. i have stayed balanced the whole time. i have just said, that its chick fil a's right to donate to whatever group they believe in (and if you have looked into that group, they have also gave attention to school issues such as sex education, which Focus on the Family, believes the parents should talk about it if they want, and that the school shouldnt decide on that issue of sex. they have also given to countless homeless shelters). and if anything, chick fil a has benefited from the whole 'issue' (which it isnt an issue, cause they dont discriminate against ANYONE, they hire lgbt people). i have also said, that it was a smart business move. im not attacking them like you are (which is also closed minded of you.) It is not closed-minded, it's a simple well known scientific fact. Please refer to http://evilbible.com for any further information as to how I know the bible is fake.

Secondly, you have clearly said you support their decision to discriminate against homosexual people. That means you are closed-minded to the fact that homosexuality is natural, and that by allowing them to make those decisions they are infringing on the rights of other human beings.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I'm ignorant to their beliefs, it means that I do not approve of humans legally being allowed to force people to change their beliefs and infringe upon their basic rights.

They do nothing for anyone by infringing upon their rights, and it was a horrible move for Chick-Fil-A. No one I have ever met outside of this forums ever even gone there.

Cicero

August 22nd, 2012, 10:45 PM

It is not closed-minded, it's a simple well known scientific fact. Please refer to http://evilbible.com for any further information as to how I know the bible is fake.

Secondly, you have clearly said you support their decision to discriminate against homosexual people. That means you are closed-minded to the fact that homosexuality is natural, and that by allowing them to make those decisions they are infringing on the rights of other human beings.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I'm ignorant to their beliefs, it means that I do not approve of humans legally being allowed to force people to change their beliefs and infringe upon their basic rights.

They do nothing for anyone by infringing upon their rights, and it was a horrible move for Chick-Fil-A. No one I have ever met outside of this forums ever even gone there.

Well on this thread, ive seen a llot of people syaing that theyve been there and their gonna continue going there. That website you showed me, has tons of faults. When it says that males have to circumcize themselves. its referring to the jews of that time. they dont mean if you dont do it you dont go to heaven. Secondly, the bible told things how they were. They didn't make the people of the bible sound perfect, like many other religions do. King David killed someone to hide the fact that he cheated on another mans wife. the bible isnt saying thats ok. its just saying that he did that, so people know, that they werent perfect. that website was nothing but crap and faulty. in fact, there were countless other scriptures that this websites twisted, on other pages. when it says it contradicts itself, when he says God, he is referring to himself. When he says gods. he is referring to the pagans gods. not himself, and he is saying that their gods do not exist and that he is the only one. Once again, your proving how closed minded you are. if you were truly open minded, you would study the bible for yourself to prove it. instead of reading stuff on the internet. there is a little thing that i know about the internet that you seem not to know, not everything on the internet is real! wow. mind=blown. unlike you, if i had a question about a religion, i actually did my own studies of it. i had a question about the mormon faith. so i bought some mormon bible dvds about there religion. from that i learned a lot. im referring to one of the 'contradictions' in the bible. it says do not fear death. then it says, Jesus avoided the jews because he knew he was to die. Jesus didnt wanna die. but he did. he wasn't really avoiding the jews. because they easily caught him while he was praying on the mountain. no one wants to die. no christian wants to die. but if hf he is must come, god says do not fear death if he is a follower of christ. because he will be going to heaven. this website was written by someone who doesnt know anything. and just picked random verses and tore them out of context. hopefully you actually take the time to look at this article. (http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/faith_in_life/defending_the_faith.aspx)

if you did not, here is some selective parts for proof.

Archeological Evidence
Though the Bible is not just a history book, the events and people recorded in its pages are historical. Over the past couple of centuries, the science of archaeology has advanced our knowledge of the people, places and culture of Bible times. In the process, archaeology has proven, over and over, that the Bible is accurate in its historical facts.

For example, proof of King Jehu (see 2 Kings 9-10) was discovered on an obelisk (a column of stone) found in 1846. The obelisk contains words and pictures recording Israel's conquest by an Assyrian king. The obelisk's information perfectly confirms what was recorded in the Old Testament.

There is Unity in the Bible
The entire Bible was written by about 40 individuals over 1,500 years. These writers included a farmer (Amos), a doctor (Luke), ministers (such as Ezra and James), political leaders (David, Solomon), political prisoners (Daniel, John), a musician (Asaph), a fisherman (Peter) and a tax collector (Matthew).

Moses, who wrote the first five books of the Old Testament, grew up wealthy in Egypt, became a fugitive, herded livestock, then eventually led a nation. Paul, who wrote 13 books of the New Testament, was professionally trained in religion, theology and philosophy, and before he became a Christian led a movement to hunt down the followers of Jesus Christ. The Bible writers were rich and educated, poor and not-so-educated; they came from a wide variety of social backgrounds.

Yet the Bible contains a unified, consistent message. It could be summarized as "God's Savior, and how you may know Him" or "The kingdom of heaven, and how to get in."

The agreement woven throughout all 66 books written by different people at different times strongly points to the Bible's heavenly origin. Though humans did the writing, the Bible is the product of one author: God.

Churches and Christians didn't choose the books they wanted to put in the Bible. They eventually recognized the books that God had chosen. Bible expert J. I. Packer puts it this way:

The church no more "gave us" the canon than Sir Isaac Newton "gave us" the force of gravity. God gave us gravity by the work of His creation, and similarly, He gave us the New Testament canon by inspiring the original books that make it up.

Fulfilled Prophecy
Fulfilled prophecy distinguishes the Bible from any other religious book. The Bible accurately predicted events hundreds of years in advance because God was the author.

Some time between A.D. 30-32., Jesus predicted that the Jewish temple would be reduced to rubble (Matthew 24:1-2, Luke 21:5-6), an unthinkable occurrence for the Jews of that day. Religious leaders would have ridiculed the idea that their massive temple could be razed. Yet in A.D. 70, the temple was indeed destroyed.

Additionally Isaiah 11:11-12, which was written more than 700 years before Christ, predicted that the Jews would one day return to Israel, after having been dispersed to points all around the world. At one time, skeptics pointed to this prediction (and a similar one in Ezekiel 37:21) as a prophecy that had never come to pass. Yet since the rebirth of the Jewish nation in 1948, Jewish individuals have indeed returned to Israel "from the four quarters of the earth."

Cannot Prove God
While Christians can't give skeptics empirical proof of God's existence, we also can't prove the existence of some of our heavenly Father's more famous human creations—people like C.S. Lewis, George Washington or King Tut. Photographs, dollar bills and ancient artwork provide evidence that these humans existed—but not proof. Evidence points to fact. Proof asserts a fact irrefutably.
Credits: Focus on the Family

If you choose to overlook what i have written, I will know considering your next post in response.

Truth

August 23rd, 2012, 03:00 AM

Well on this thread, ive seen a llot of people syaing that theyve been there and their gonna continue going there. That website you showed me, has tons of faults. When it says that males have to circumcize themselves. its referring to the jews of that time. they dont mean if you dont do it you dont go to heaven. Secondly, the bible told things how they were. They didn't make the people of the bible sound perfect, like many other religions do. King David killed someone to hide the fact that he cheated on another mans wife. the bible isnt saying thats ok. its just saying that he did that, so people know, that they werent perfect. that website was nothing but crap and faulty. in fact, there were countless other scriptures that this websites twisted, on other pages. when it says it contradicts itself, when he says God, he is referring to himself. When he says gods. he is referring to the pagans gods. not himself, and he is saying that their gods do not exist and that he is the only one. Once again, your proving how closed minded you are. if you were truly open minded, you would study the bible for yourself to prove it. instead of reading stuff on the internet. there is a little thing that i know about the internet that you seem not to know, not everything on the internet is real! wow. mind=blown. unlike you, if i had a question about a religion, i actually did my own studies of it. i had a question about the mormon faith. so i bought some mormon bible dvds about there religion. from that i learned a lot. im referring to one of the 'contradictions' in the bible. it says do not fear death. then it says, Jesus avoided the jews because he knew he was to die. Jesus didnt wanna die. but he did. he wasn't really avoiding the jews. because they easily caught him while he was praying on the mountain. no one wants to die. no christian wants to die. but if hf he is must come, god says do not fear death if he is a follower of christ. because he will be going to heaven. this website was written by someone who doesnt know anything. and just picked random verses and tore them out of context. hopefully you actually take the time to look at this article. (http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/faith_in_life/defending_the_faith.aspx)

if you did not, here is some selective parts for proof.

Archeological Evidence

There is Unity in the Bible

Fulfilled Prophecy

Cannot Prove God

Credits: Focus on the Family

If you choose to overlook what i have written, I will know considering your next post in response. Just because the bible was written about real people does not mean it's all true.

Ever heard of the telephone game? Ever notice how meanings, words, and values change from person to person?

The bible is no more legitimate than Superman, and infringing on other peoples basic human rights because of what a god tells you to do is completely insane. It is not justifiable in any manner and no matter what you say you are doing harm while the homosexuals just want to enjoy the life they were born into.

Every single quote on the evilbible website is straight from the bible, and it even uses the bibles quote to prove how god is illogical. When you follow something that can't be proven to the general public, you can't just go around doing whatever you want because the book allows it. We live in a modern world where hate should be forgotten and acceptance should replace it, we no longer need to judge others based on our own beliefs.

What Chick-Fil-A does is no more criminal than me refusing to associate with black people due to the simple fact we aren't the same colour. All hate is similar, it just comes in different forms. Stop promoting the restaurant because they are ignorants, who rather than help legitimate charities give to ones that use some of the funds to help, and the rest to oppress.

Cicero

August 23rd, 2012, 03:31 AM

Just because the bible was written about real people does not mean it's all true.

Ever heard of the telephone game? Ever notice how meanings, words, and values change from person to person?

The bible is no more legitimate than Superman, and infringing on other peoples basic human rights because of what a god tells you to do is completely insane. It is not justifiable in any manner and no matter what you say you are doing harm while the homosexuals just want to enjoy the life they were born into.

Every single quote on the evilbible website is straight from the bible, and it even uses the bibles quote to prove how god is illogical. When you follow something that can't be proven to the general public, you can't just go around doing whatever you want because the book allows it. We live in a modern world where hate should be forgotten and acceptance should replace it, we no longer need to judge others based on our own beliefs.

What Chick-Fil-A does is no more criminal than me refusing to associate with black people due to the simple fact we aren't the same colour. All hate is similar, it just comes in different forms. Stop promoting the restaurant because they are ignorants, who rather than help legitimate charities give to ones that use some of the funds to help, and the rest to oppress.

hahaha it may be insane but its a free country, remember over 1.2 billion people believe in this fake book, and probably 1.2+ billion people will abide by that fake book. They are doing nothing criminal except giving there hard earned money to a great organization that does nothing but help people. I doubt you even know what the foundation gives to, let alone what the name of that organization/foundation is lol
The foundation simply, believes that schools shouldnt make homosexuality ok. Because schools are beginning to teach about homosexuality and it being alright. No matter what you say, Chick Fil A will keep giving money, and will continue to be sucessful like they have been for the 20+ years :D So stop trying to infringe on a companys rights to donate money. This isnt communist China as you may like it to be/think it might be.

They arent denying service to gays. so there is nothing criminal going on (shocking, i know!). The website you showed me, twisted bible verses. They didnt write it word for word, and they took the bible out of context. I provided many sources, whereas you provided a source, that took words out of context, and twisted the words of the Bible. Once again, over 1.2+ billion people believe gays werent 'born' gay. Thats another argument. So, I think were done here. All you are doing, is whining about some chicken donating money, and frankly, your just going around in circles by bringing up an illegitimate source. Have a good day :)

Sonic Boom

August 23rd, 2012, 04:34 AM

Once again, over 1.2+ billion people believe gays werent 'born' gay. Thats another argument. So, I think were done here. All you are doing, is whining about some chicken donating money, and frankly, your just going around in circles by bringing up an illegitimate source. Have a good day :)

Just because over 1.2 billion people think that "gays were gay by choice", does not necessarily make it correct.

Cicero

August 23rd, 2012, 04:38 AM

Just because over 1.2 billion people think that "gays were gay by choice", does not necessarily make it correct.

it sure makes it harder for people to say that they were born gay. this isnt the argument tho.

Truth

August 23rd, 2012, 04:40 AM

hahaha it may be insane but its a free country, remember over 1.2 billion people believe in this fake book, and probably 1.2+ billion people will abide by that fake book. They are doing nothing criminal except giving there hard earned money to a great organization that does nothing but help people. I doubt you even know what the foundation gives to, let alone what the name of that organization/foundation is lol
The foundation simply, believes that schools shouldnt make homosexuality ok. Because schools are beginning to teach about homosexuality and it being alright. No matter what you say, Chick Fil A will keep giving money, and will continue to be sucessful like they have been for the 20+ years :D So stop trying to infringe on a companys rights to donate money. This isnt communist China as you may like it to be/think it might be.

They arent denying service to gays. so there is nothing criminal going on (shocking, i know!). The website you showed me, twisted bible verses. They didnt write it word for word, and they took the bible out of context. I provided many sources, whereas you provided a source, that took words out of context, and twisted the words of the Bible. Once again, over 1.2+ billion people believe gays werent 'born' gay. Thats another argument. So, I think were done here. All you are doing, is whining about some chicken donating money, and frankly, your just going around in circles by bringing up an illegitimate source. Have a good day :)

So Chick-Fil-A believes homosexuality is wrong, and they believe it is wrong due to god that you can't even know is real, telling them to.

Even though homosexuality happens in every species and has happened for millions of years, all of a sudden it shouldn't be taught that it's naturally occurring and acceptable so that students aren't bullied to death.

Also, a company has absolutely zero rights. No where in our constitution does it mention a company having the right to fund a hateful group to infringe upon a groups rights.

Also, an illegitimate source? I'm sorry that you're too lazy to read the words of your own God. Oh, and one more thing -

"Oh and if we're throwing around quotes as 'evidence' here then I'll add a little bit.
"The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.
There were, and still aren't, original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There were over 8000 of these manuscripts with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these anyway, instead they edited previous translations to create a version their King and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st century Christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of letters written in the 1st century."

I do not see how you can justify hating a group of people and act as if they aren't natural because of a book. Oh, humanity...

Cicero

August 23rd, 2012, 04:44 AM

:)So Chick-Fil-A believes homosexuality is wrong, and they believe it is wrong due to god that you can't even know is real, telling them to.

Even though homosexuality happens in every species and has happened for millions of years, all of a sudden it shouldn't be taught that it's naturally occurring and acceptable so that students aren't bullied to death.

Also, a company has absolutely zero rights. No where in our constitution does it mention a company having the right to fund a hateful group to infringe upon a groups rights.

Also, an illegitimate source? I'm sorry that you're too lazy to read the words of your own God. Oh, and one more thing -

"Oh and if we're throwing around quotes as 'evidence' here then I'll add a little bit.
"The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.
There were, and still aren't, original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There were over 8000 of these manuscripts with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these anyway, instead they edited previous translations to create a version their King and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st century Christians believe the "word of god" is a book edited in the 17th century from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of letters written in the 1st century."

I do not see how you can justify hating a group of people and act as if they aren't natural because of a book. Oh, humanity...

they own the computer, its privately owned. they can do whatever the hell they want. Just like a restaurant owner. if an owner of the restaurant wanted to take money out of the cash register thats no ones problem but the owners. the sme thing applies to this situation, except he owns over 1600 restaurants/fastfoods. it doesnt infringe on a groups beliefs. maybe your infringing on there beliefs. your wrong. nice try though :)
Also, your contradicting yourself. starbucks and oreos and ben and jerrys support lgbt. chick fil a support TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE. nothing wrong with that. well, with your logic. Its wrong for starbucks and oreos and ben and jerrys to donate to lgbt groups. they have no right to do that (especially when they arent FAMILY OWNED BUT OWNED THROUGH STOCKS). chick fil a is not owned by stocks. :negrep: