Death sentence

[Professional Russian]

Do You guys think all the US should use the death sentence? Heres my theory if you kill someone you should be killed(excluding Military and police or in self defense)

[Cicero]

I agree to a point, I believe the reasoning is a part of it. Say someone killed a loved one really close to me, I would definitely want revenge and I would hunt his killer down and do the same thing he did to my loved one. If its something like that, I believe it should be like 28 years to life in prison.

[Azunite]

Do You guys think all the US should use the death sentence? Heres my theory if you kill someone you should be killed(excluding Military and police or in self defense)

Oh blessed fuck here we go again...

An eye for an eye makes the world blind --

Or in this case, "A body for a body makes the world extinct"

[huginnmuninn]

people who force others to have sex with them, child molesters, and torturers are people i believe should get the death sentence.

[Professional Russian]

people who force others to have sex with them, child molesters, and torturers are people i believe should get the death sentence.

True i never thought of that

[Jess]

I'm against it. the death penalty is too easy of a way out for a killer. they deserve to suffer life in jail, and we need to make sure they don't have any comforts of jail (like TV, good food etc).

so... what, do we teach others killing is wrong by killing killers? that's just wrong.

[crazydude71]

I agree

I'm against it. the death penalty is too easy of a way out for a killer. they deserve to suffer life in jail, and we need to make sure they don't have any comforts of jail (like TV, good food etc).

so... what, do we teach others killing is wrong by killing killers? that's just wrong.

See, but if the killer gets life in jail, than the victims family/families are payin for a roof over there head, a bed to sleep in, and 3 meals a day in taxes but yet there are honest hard workin ppl starving to death every day or living in a shopping cart or cardboard box

[Professional Russian]

I'm against it. the death penalty is too easy of a way out for a killer. they deserve to suffer life in jail, and we need to make sure they don't have any comforts of jail (like TV, good food etc).

so... what, do we teach others killing is wrong by killing killers? that's just wrong.

But they usaully let killers out in like 20 years so they can just go do it again

[Jess]

See, but if the killer gets life in jail, than the victims family/families are payin for a roof over there head, a bed to sleep in, and 3 meals a day in taxes but yet there are honest hard workin ppl starving to death every day or living in a shopping cart or cardboard box

and what about the killer's family? they might still think he/she is innocent, and will be greatly affected if the killer is executed...

But they usaully let killers out in like 20 years so they can just go do it again

really? I didn't know that. but some might not do it again, they might want to redeem themselves and regret deeply what they've done and want to start a better life...

[Professional Russian]

and what about the killer's family? they might still think he/she is innocent, and will be greatly affected if the killer is executed...



really? I didn't know that. but some might not do it again, they might want to redeem themselves and regret deeply what they've done and want to start a better life...

Yeah.....when was the last time a killer changed? im pretty sure most killers get out and go kill again ill google it up in a few minutes

54% of killers kill again. Source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_murderers_kill_again)

[WaffleSingSong]

Yeah.....when was the last time a killer changed? im pretty sure most killers get out and go kill again ill google it up in a few minutes

54% of killers kill again. Source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_murderers_kill_again)

Well, Here is my answer to things.

I very lightly believe in the death penalty. It should only be used for someone who has been locked up too long to remain sane. Really, I do not care who you are or what they done, There human. No human should ever go though insanity.

First, 20-40 yearers have rehabilitated and get out for good behavior. And cops know when they are or not rehabilitated. Anyone else who still has a bloodthirsty rage for murder stay locked up.

Also, Homicide rates for someone who goes to jail and the murders again are to 1.0% to 1.7%.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_released_from_prison_go_back_to_prison

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_who_are_in_jail_commit_crimes_again_after_they_get_out

Also, PR, Not being picky, but both the question and the answer have the same grammar as you. Just putting that out there.

[OrKing]

I'm against the death penalty personally; there's far too much circumstance and variety in why different killers kill, although admittedly; if they do get the death penalty it's usually for something that seems extremely clear cut. I'm just not cool with the whole message it sends either; imagine someones family gets killed by someone or a bunch of people, he goes out and kills them and than the government goes on to kill him. It's just killing for killing; it's way too close to the average tit for tat murder on the streets for me to be comfortable with. The killer is basically killed for taking somebody's life in his hands and killing them; but than the people who are supposed to be judging him do near enough the same thing, but it's supposed to be seen as better because it's justified and official. It's way too messy a system to be worth it IMO, especially since offing someone with a lethal injection is incredibly merciful to those who are seen as bad enough to be executed; it's nothing compared to even five years in a bad prison.

And you have to define killer really; some poor fucker who kills an abusive parent or someone who kills somebody in a drunken rage one night is far more likely to never kill again than someone who actually goes out looking to off random people; IE, serial killers after a stretch in prison. I think the large majority of killers wouldn't kill again after 8-100 years contemplating their actions in prison; I find it very, very hard to believe that over 50% do... You're source doesn't even state a source bro.

Basically, no, in my opinion it contradicts a large part of what the law tells us, but it's okay because it's official. I'm not cool with that mentality. Morality shouldn't differ based on politics... Obviously it does, but it shouldn't.

[Sugaree]

Heres my theory if you kill someone you should be killed(excluding Military and police)

asdjkfhwiurvba FUCKING WHY.

[WaffleSingSong]

asdjkfhwiurvba FUCKING WHY.

I think he means it on a legal basis (I hope...)

[Professional Russian]

I think he means it on a legal basis (I hope...)

If we're talking about murders yes...

[Sugaree]

If we're talking about murders yes...

A criminal is a criminal, you idiot. If it was pre-meditated by a military officer, they deserve the same treatment as a non-military member when it comes to committing a crime.

[Professional Russian]

A criminal is a criminal, you idiot. If it was pre-meditated by a military officer, they deserve the same treatment as a non-military member when it comes to committing a crime.

When i said excludeing military and police i meant in the line of duty you should have been able to figure that out on your own....idiot

[Sugaree]

When i said excludeing military and police i meant in the line of duty you should have been able to figure that out on your own.

So if a cop shoots an innocent bystander, he/she should be excluded from the death sentence if applicable?

[Professional Russian]

So if a cop shoots an innocent bystander, he/she should be excluded from the death sentence if applicable?

IF someone kills someone thats not in self defense unless your in war yes they should get the death sentence. if someone planned the whole thing out and killed soomeone yes they should get the death sentence

[Sugaree]

IF someone kills someone thats not in self defense unless your in war yes they should get the death sentence. if someone planned the whole thing out and killed soomeone yes they should get the death sentence

So punish someone who murders by killing them. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

[Professional Russian]

So punish someone who murders by killing them. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

It makes a ton of sense. if someone kills someone its only rihg thtat they suffer the same way the person they killed suffered

[Jess]

and that's how we teach others killing is wrong? by killing? :/

[Professional Russian]

and that's how we teach others killing is wrong? by killing? :/

Yeah because think about it. if we kill a killer people wont want to kill other people because they know if they did they would also die.

[Gigablue]

It makes a ton of sense. if someone kills someone its only rihg thtat they suffer the same way the person they killed suffered

How is killing them making them suffer? They die quickly and with little pain. If you want them to suffer, throw them in jail and let the rot for the rest of their lives.

[Professional Russian]

How is killing them making them suffer? They die quickly and with little pain. If you want them to suffer, throw them in jail and let the rot for the rest of their lives.

Because if you shoot them they do feel some pain before they die unless its too the head then thats an automatic death most of the time

[OrKing]

Yeah, but they don't shoot them, and even in the one rare case that they have in recent history it was one round to the heart. It's lethal injection; thus painless and a hell of a lot more merciful than life in prison. It's more of a gift than a punishment.

[Sugaree]

It makes a ton of sense. if someone kills someone its only rihg thtat they suffer the same way the person they killed suffered

Our laws regarding murder are based on an ages old definition of morals and ethics. People used to be put to death for stealing apples and it was seen as acceptable punishment. People aren't put to death for stealing now, but there's some people that are serving 20 years for it.

Morality and ethics must change as times change. We can't keep killing murderers because it's "only right that they suffer the same way the person they killed suffered". The death penalty does not deter people from committing crimes. They are still human beings and deserve that much respect. Their actions do not ultimately define them as humans, but how they deal with the consequences of those actions. It makes no sense to teach the future generations that killing is wrong and try to defend the process of legal killing (which is all the death penalty is). How do you justify something which is, legally, unjustified in 95% of those cases?

I don't understand the emotions someone would feel if a member of their family or a friend was killed. I don't understand why they look at the killer as sub-human or not even human at all. I most of all don't understand the need for vengeance for the victim, because if you're a decent enough human being, you would forgive those that do you harm. The discussion on the death penalty goes deep into the realms of not only what is moral, but also justifiable. What you are suggesting is the same argument which has never changed for the last thirty or forty years. Something is going to change, whether you like it or not, and it'll happen soon.

[Gigablue]

Because if you shoot them they do feel some pain before they die unless its too the head then thats an automatic death most of the time

Is some pain for a few minutes before death worse than life in prison?

[Professional Russian]

Our laws regarding murder are based on an ages old definition of morals and ethics. People used to be put to death for stealing apples and it was seen as acceptable punishment. People aren't put to death for stealing now, but there's some people that are serving 20 years for it.

Morality and ethics must change as times change. We can't keep killing murderers because it's "only right that they suffer the same way the person they killed suffered". The death penalty does not deter people from committing crimes. They are still human beings and deserve that much respect. Their actions do not ultimately define them as humans, but how they deal with the consequences of those actions. It makes no sense to teach the future generations that killing is wrong and try to defend the process of legal killing (which is all the death penalty is). How do you justify something which is, legally, unjustified in 95% of those cases?

I don't understand the emotions someone would feel if a member of their family or a friend was killed. I don't understand why they look at the killer as sub-human or not even human at all. I most of all don't understand the need for vengeance for the victim, because if you're a decent enough human being, you would forgive those that do you harm. The discussion on the death penalty goes deep into the realms of not only what is moral, but also justifiable. What you are suggesting is the same argument which has never changed for the last thirty or forty years. Something is going to change, whether you like it or not, and it'll happen soon.

Then what the hell are we gonna do? Just let them walk out of jail in 20 years and kill again?

[Sugaree]

Then what the hell are we gonna do? Just let them walk out of jail in 20 years and kill again?

Nice jumping to conclusions, Bert. Life in prison with the possibility/no possibility of parole (decision based on the judge as to parole).

[Professional Russian]

Nice jumping to conclusions, Bert. Life in prison with the possibility/no possibility of parole (decision based on the judge as to parole).

You can read phonetics too....shit. But there are some killers that get out of jail on parol. what if they do go kill again? what if their better and dont get caught before killing multiple people? what now just put them back in jail?

[OregonStateDude]

I think it depends on the circumstances. Like with Oklahoma City, that douchebag knew his truck bomb would wipe out that whole building. So I have no problem with our government flipping the switch on him.

With Colorado it's pretty much the same thing. There's no doubt in my mind that this clown would have taken out everyone in that theater if his gun hadn't jammed on him. If anyone deserves the death penalty, he's a leading candidate.

[huginnmuninn]

So punish someone who murders by killing them. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

there is a difference between murdering someone and killing someone

[Cognizant]

But they usaully let killers out in like 20 years so they can just go do it again
That depends on the offense. Usually it's a life sentence, but you never know. The way that the legal system works in the US is a joke if you ask me.

I also think that police who shoot people shouldn't be excused/treated lightly.
Remember the Oscar Grant case? A BART police officer shot Grant at a station platform, in front of a bunch of other witnesses view, for no reason. He was fully cooperating, and honestly the people on the train were being more roudy. Then bang. He died hours later.
He committed first degree murdurer, and was even charged with that. And how many years did he serve? 1. 1 year for killing another human being. Well, and loosing his position at BART.
Is that really fair?

[Professional Russian]

That depends on the offense. Usually it's a life sentence, but you never know. The way that the legal system works in the US is a joke if you ask me.

I could not agree more. the legal system is a joke and its corrupt too.

[Neptune]

That depends on the offense. Usually it's a life sentence, but you never know. The way that the legal system works in the US is a joke if you ask me.

I also think that police who shoot people shouldn't be excused/treated lightly.
Remember the Oscar Grant case? A BART police officer shot Grant at a station platform, in front of a bunch of other witnesses view, for no reason. He was fully cooperating, and honestly the people on the train were being more roudy. Then bang. He died hours later.
He committed first degree murdurer, and was even charged with that. And how many years did he serve? 1. 1 year for killing another human being. Well, and loosing his position at BART.
Is that really fair?

Johannes Mehserle was never charged with first degree murder, he was charged with second degree murder. He was found not guilty on second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter and was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to two years in jail minus time already served, that is why he only spent one year in jail.

[Sugaree]

You can read phonetics too....shit. But there are some killers that get out of jail on parol. what if they do go kill again? what if their better and dont get caught before killing multiple people? what now just put them back in jail?

You're assuming that once a criminal, always a criminal. It's a very low percentage of people who get out of jail and go back out committing felonies. Most murderers die in prison anyway, and the fact that hardly any of them actually survive outside of prison with no way of getting a job or even own a house speaks for itself. Prison is a punishment reformation system, which unfortunately doesn't work in some cases.


With Colorado it's pretty much the same thing. There's no doubt in my mind that this clown would have taken out everyone in that theater if his gun hadn't jammed on him. If anyone deserves the death penalty, he's a leading candidate.

No. No no no. How does someone "deserve" anything like the death penalty? To say that one person deserves to be injected is no better than having a motive to kill someone by yourself.

there is a difference between murdering someone and killing someone

Who the fuck told you that? Murder and killing is the same god damned thing under TWO different names.

[Professional Russian]

You're assuming that once a criminal, always a criminal. It's a very low percentage of people who get out of jail and go back out committing felonies. Most murderers die in prison anyway, and the fact that hardly any of them actually survive outside of prison with no way of getting a job or even own a house speaks for itself. Prison is a punishment reformation system, which unfortunately doesn't work in some cases.


See prison doesnt work. Its split up about 50/50 when it workd and when it doesnt. Correct?

[Sugaree]

See prison doesnt work. Its split up about 50/50 when it workd and when it doesnt. Correct?

You didn't even read what I said properly. It's very rare, maybe about 5 to 10 percent of inmates, who recommit a felony and go back to jail. It's not 50/50. Prison still works for the majority of inmates and those who are freed upon the end of their sentence usually live their lives as best they can. So no, prison isn't a 50/50 split on who it works for and who it doesn't work for.

[Professional Russian]

You didn't even read what I said properly. It's very rare, maybe about 5 to 10 percent of inmates, who recommit a felony and go back to jail. It's not 50/50. Prison still works for the majority of inmates and those who are freed upon the end of their sentence usually live their lives as best they can. So no, prison isn't a 50/50 split on who it works for and who it doesn't work for.

What about the guys that get out early? What about the guys that escape? they probaly do it again

[Sugaree]

What about the guys that get out early? What about the guys that escape? they probaly do it again

Jesus Christ, do you EVER stop to listen to yourself? Most people don't get out early or, if they do, it's on parole and they're kept on a tight leash.

[Professional Russian]

Jesus Christ, do you EVER stop to listen to yourself? Most people don't get out early or, if they do, it's on parole and they're kept on a tight leash.

SO your telling me no one ever breaks that leash and dont do what ever the hell they want?

[Sugaree]

SO your telling me no one ever breaks that leash and dont do what ever the hell they want?

I'm not saying that at all. But you act as if every inmate on parole breaks that leash and goes off committing crimes.

[Puma_concolor]

The problem with eliminating certain amenities to criminals is that they are guaranteed those in the Constitution. They forfeit their right to some things, but they are humans and have to be treated as such. What needs to be done is give sentences to fit the crime.

Another thing that pisses me off is when somebody complains about having to pay taxes to house criminals. Look, you don't have to live in this country. We have a Constitution, and you would be furious if they changed part of it that affected you. You can't complain about paying to jail a danger to society and then go bitch when they get released because "you don't want to pay".

[gothicsanctum]

So you want the laws here in America to be like that laws In Season 1 Episode 8 of Star Trek : The next Generation?

Here is a Quote from the Episode's Article on the Wiki:
"Yar, who is just fascinated by the Edo, is talking with two of them about their laws. They explain to her that there is no crime in their world and that no one breaks the laws. A long time ago, there was much disorder, but no longer. They explain that they have no police or law enforcement but instead have so-called mediators who select only one area each day for a certain period of time: the punishment zone. It is a completely random selection, no person ever knows when or where a zone will be and so no one risks death. The Edo explain to Worf and Yar, who are both very disturbed by this news, that there is only one punishment for any crime: death. While it sounds drastic, the Edo consider it very wise and a basis for their lasting peace. After all, since no one would want to risk execution, no one breaks the rules. Hearing this, the away team is immediately alarmed and heads off to find Wesley quickly, who they know is running around with the other kids, not knowing anything about these rules. "

Link to Article for Reference
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Justice_%28episode%29

[Professional Russian]

So you want the laws here in America to be like that laws In Season 1 Episode 8 of Star Trek : The next Generation?

Here is a Quote from the Episode's Article on the Wiki:
"Yar, who is just fascinated by the Edo, is talking with two of them about their laws. They explain to her that there is no crime in their world and that no one breaks the laws. A long time ago, there was much disorder, but no longer. They explain that they have no police or law enforcement but instead have so-called mediators who select only one area each day for a certain period of time: the punishment zone. It is a completely random selection, no person ever knows when or where a zone will be and so no one risks death. The Edo explain to Worf and Yar, who are both very disturbed by this news, that there is only one punishment for any crime: death. While it sounds drastic, the Edo consider it very wise and a basis for their lasting peace. After all, since no one would want to risk execution, no one breaks the rules. Hearing this, the away team is immediately alarmed and heads off to find Wesley quickly, who they know is running around with the other kids, not knowing anything about these rules. "

Link to Article for Reference
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Justice_%28episode%29

Except this is real life not star trek. That has to be the dumbest argument ive ever seen its worse than some of mine

[ets99]

If someone kills a person, they are sent to jail where the united states citizens pay for the inmate's needs. What's the point in sentencing them to life in prison? In some places the homeless don't even get care like that. That's my point.

[Professional Russian]

If someone kills a person, they are sent to jail where the united states citizens pay for the inmate's needs. What's the point in sentencing them to life in prison? In some places the homeless don't even get care like that. That's my point.

If a person kills someone they should get killed. if you kill someone (Police and military exempt) you should have to feel the pain they felt.

[RoseyCadaver]

The death penalty is double standard,and a very archaic, simple way to "fix" the problem.

We could be doing much more useful things with the person, like studying them, labor, or making soylant green. Besides, killing people to show people that killing is a wrong thing just doesn't make sense.

I lol'd when someone said the police and military shouldn't get in trouble for killing.

[Professional Russian]

The death penalty is double standard,and a very archaic, simple way to "fix" the problem.

We could be doing much more useful things with the person, like studying them, labor, or making soylant green. Besides, killing people to show people that killing is a wrong thing just doesn't make sense.

I lol'd when someone said the police and military shouldn't get in trouble for killing.

If the military got punished for killing we wouldnt have the military the police shouldnt either. people take that as if they plan out a murder no im talking about in the line of duty. But im sorry to the US justice system is corrupt to try to study the person we put them in jail for a few years and we let them out and kill again i knew there are very that do but some do it again

[ets99]

If a person kills someone they should get killed. if you kill someone (Police and military exempt) you should have to feel the pain they felt.

I believe that the death sentence should be there, but we just can't go killing people left and right. People that murder for money, or because the victim mistreated them should get the death sentence. However some people actually have mental issues that need to be sorted out. Why would you kill people that are practically innocent?

[Professional Russian]

I believe that the death sentence should be there, but we just can't go killing people left and right. People that murder for money, or because the victim mistreated them should get the death sentence. However some people actually have mental issues that need to be sorted out. Why would you kill people that are practically innocent?

If they killed someone it was proven they're not innocent the insane people i believe should try to get help but i dont think that would work with the justice system

[ets99]

If they killed someone it was proven they're not innocent the insane people i believe should try to get help but i dont think that would work with the justice system

Well, they really should, because most of the people who are serial killers have severe mental issues. Those should be put in mental care facilities.

Edit: I received negative rep for this reply, saying so very wrong. If I offended you in any way I am deeply sorry, but I was merely speaking my mind. After a murder, if a attacker is considered mentally unstable, I would assume that it would be in everyone's best interest to help. Once again I give out my most sincere apology.
-Ethan

[StoppingTime]

If a person kills someone they should get killed. if you kill someone (Police and military exempt) you should have to feel the pain they felt.



lolwut.

[Professional Russian]

lolwut.

yeah police and military exempt the military kils everyday and cops have to shoot to protect them selves and others. unless they are found guilty of murder that isnt in defense they are exempt

[StoppingTime]

yeah police and military exempt the military kils everyday and cops have to shoot to protect them selves and others. unless they are found guilty of murder that isnt in defense they are exempt


Ignoring the military, seeing as they are overseas attacking other countires for no reason, why do police get any special treatments different from other citizerns?

[RoseyCadaver]

yeah police and military exempt the military kils everyday and cops have to shoot to protect them selves and others. unless they are found guilty of murder that isnt in defense they are exempt

Because...you know...the military is always doing what's best for everyone and the better good.

[Puma_concolor]

Ignoring the military, seeing as they are overseas attacking other countires for no reason, why do police get any special treatment different from other citizerns?

Why should illegal immigrants get access to healthcare and free citizenship for their babies when all they're doing is taking the jobs teenagers used to do?

[Desuetude]

It makes a ton of sense. if someone kills someone its only right that they suffer the same way the person they killed suffered
But that could be used for anything. If someone rapes/hurts/bullies someone then they should be treated the same way? Because that's always the way to go, isn't it? An eye for an eye obviously makes everything okay and teaches people what's right.
What about those people that need help, that didn't want to do it yet they did. Those considered criminally insane, or had done no wrong before and it happened spontaneously with the murderer unable to control their actions. Should they get the same treatment as those who chose to kill?
If a person kills someone they should get killed. if you kill someone (Police and military exempt) you should have to feel the pain they felt.
Apart from that pain will be very short lived and basically free them from all that they've done. They wouldn't have to live to face the consequences of their actions, it would be over and done with, to be forgotten. They'd probably think of it as a blessing.
Now, who it would really end up hurting is the criminals family. They've done nothing wrong yet they are still left to grieve for the life lost. It's hurting a lot more people on a much bigger scale, it really isn't worth it.

[Cicero]

I do see where people are coming from about the "you kill someone you should be killed" thing. That is the easy way out vs rotting in prison. If someone I loved was murdered and I could choose between life in prison with no parole or bail vs death sentence, I'd pick the rot in prison one.

Why should illegal immigrants get access to healthcare and free citizenship for their babies when all they're doing is taking the jobs teenagers used to do?

That's a different thread. One which has already been created.

[Gigablue]

If someone kills a person, they are sent to jail where the united states citizens pay for the inmate's needs. What's the point in sentencing them to life in prison? In some places the homeless don't even get care like that. That's my point.

It costs much more to execute someone that to keep them in jail for life. The trials are very expensive if there is a potential for the death penalty.

[huginnmuninn]

It costs much more to execute someone that to keep them in jail for life. The trials are very expensive if there is a potential for the death penalty.

why are the trials more expensive?

[SamW]

I like the death penalty as it is, but wish it was in all states. I think that it should be premeditated to warrant the death penalty

[randomnessqueen]

one death doesnt justify another. if someone has killed another, doesnt change your act of killing them in any way. if you truly want to punish them give them life in prison.

[ets99]

one death doesnt justify another. if someone has killed another, doesnt change your act of killing them in any way. if you truly want to punish them give them life in prison.

What? So they can sit there and rot? If we keep holding people in jail, we'll be overrun with prisons.

[Puma_concolor]

If they killed someone it was proven they're not innocent the insane people i believe should try to get help but i dont think that would work with the justice system

There's a different between "not innocent" and "guilty". You are constantly talking about our Constitutional rights, why are the Eighth and Fourth Amendments any less important than the First or Second?

[Clawhammer]

Honestly, though I believe in the principle of the killer taking responsibility for actions, and thus paying the ultimate price... I'm hesitant to trust a fallible justice system with the judgement of who lives and who dies. There is no perfect system, but then, I suppose injustice is sometimes unavoidable as well. There is no perfect solution, but I believe that yes, if the evidence is solid and flawless, the ultimate price must be payed.

I watched 12 Angry Men recently. Those of you who have seen it may better understand what I am talking about. A situation may seem clear and obvious, and it is so easy to condemn a man to death when he isn't you. I do not underestimate the value of all human life, but I do believe in the power of choices and responsibility. I am for the death penalty, but certainly not as a frivolous matter.

[Sporadica]

I believe in it and to thwart the accidental execution I saw only use it for people with 2 or more 1st degree murders, such as you were proven to kill someone here, then a month later there, and a month later somewhere else, because you can make a mistake on one murder but 10? c'mon, also reserve it for human traffickers, peadophiles, and traitors.

[Gigablue]

I don't see how the death penalty is really punishment. You have some pain for a few seconds to a few minutes, then you're dead. If you want people to pay for their crimes, give them life in prison. The living conditions aren't very good, they have to deal with other prisoners, and they have no hope of ever getting out. Much worse than the death penalty.

[Clawhammer]

I don't see how the death penalty is really punishment. You have some pain for a few seconds to a few minutes, then you're dead. If you want people to pay for their crimes, give them life in prison. The living conditions aren't very good, they have to deal with other prisoners, and they have no hope of ever getting out. Much worse than the death penalty.

You think the point is to make them suffer? I strongly disagree, I believe it is what is necessary to remove a threat from society. You make it sound like revenge? If you want revenge, start a movement to legalize dueling.

[Gigablue]

why are the trials more expensive?

You have to pay for all the lawyers and the trial takes longer than most since the death penalty is on the line. There are also more appeals to deal with.

You think the point is to make them suffer? I strongly disagree, I believe it is what is necessary to remove a threat from society. You make it sound like revenge? If you want revenge, start a movement to legalize dueling.

Putting them in jail for life removes the threat from society just as well as the death penalty. It's also cheaper and reversible. I don't think that punishment should be the goal, but many people were talking about making people pay for their crimes. I was just responding to them by saying life in prison is better punishment.

[LouBerry]

I don't believe in taking life at all. I understand wanting justice and all, but I know I would rather die than hurt another human being.

[Professional Russian]

There's a different between "not innocent" and "guilty". You are constantly talking about our Constitutional rights, why are the Eighth and Fourth Amendments any less important than the First or Second?

THe eighth amendment states that it cant be cruel last time i checked lethal injection aint cruel I say just shoot the bastards or hang em.

[Magus]

I am against death sentence and opt for amnesty.

[riguy99]

i think instead of the death sentence they should send criminals overseas to fight in wars. then we will save cash because all the prisons would be closed.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

I disagree, I think only people who are hard to contain should get it (i.e. escape artists who have done some really bad things or serial killers).

But it all comes down to whether you believe in heaven and hell. If you do, then you see them burning in hell forever, but if you don't then it's just an easy way out for a killer.

[Magus]

i think instead of the death sentence they should send criminals overseas to fight in wars. then we will save cash because all the prisons would be closed.

Haha. Yeah, that's like sending them to their freedom.

[Puma_concolor]

THe eighth amendment states that it cant be cruel last time i checked lethal injection aint cruel I say just shoot the bastards or hang em.

You just looked that up, and it shows. It protects people from cruel and excessive punishment.

[StoppingTime]

No, I don't agree with the death penalty for a simple reason. What if you have the wrong person? Say someone is tried, sentenced to death, but really, never committed the crime? This happens with just regular prison sentences, but then, they at least have a slim chance of being proven innocent. But to put someone to death without knowing it was them who committed the crime is cruel.

[Heavyrain4life]

I'm against it. the death penalty is too easy of a way out for a killer. they deserve to suffer life in jail, and we need to make sure they don't have any comforts of jail (like TV, good food etc).

so... what, do we teach others killing is wrong by killing killers? that's just wrong.

And what about the money that it costs to keep people on death row? It costs an average of $90,000 a year... for one person. The US has 3400 (give or take) people on death row. multiply that by 90k. All that money is coming out of our taxes. Just something to think about.

[Professional Russian]

You just looked that up, and it shows. It protects people from cruel and excessive punishment.
Well its not excessive if you killed someone adn lethal injection isnt sruel...atleast i dont think it is.
And what about the money that it costs to keep people on death row? It costs an average of $90,000 a year... for one person. The US has 3400 (give or take) people on death row. multiply that by 90k. All that money is coming out of our taxes. Just something to think about.
Why do we have so many people on death row why dont we just kill them now?

[Gigablue]

Well its not excessive if you killed someone adn lethal injection isnt sruel...atleast i dont think it is.

I agree. It isn't excessive. But it isn't nearly enough. With the lethal injection, you have a few minutes of pain and fear, then you're dead. How is that enough punishment for murder. Life in prison is a much better way to make them pay for their crimes. The death penalty is too merciful.

Why do we have so many people on death row why dont we just kill them now?

It takes a while, since there are many chances to appeal the decision. Some of the people on death row are innocent, and by having a appeal, they might be found not guilty. It takes a while, but it can prevent the execution of innocent people.

[Professional Russian]

I agree. It isn't excessive. But it isn't nearly enough. With the lethal injection, you have a few minutes of pain and fear, then you're dead. How is that enough punishment for murder. Life in prison is a much better way to make them pay for their crimes. The death penalty is too merciful.

Time to break out the bull whips and rope

It takes a while, since there are many chances to appeal the decision. Some of the people on death row are innocent, and by having a appeal, they might be found not guilty. It takes a while, but it can prevent the execution of innocent people.

DAmn. Ok so we kill the ones we know are guilty and let the innocent ones appeal their their case.

[StoppingTime]

DAmn. Ok so we kill the ones we know are guilty and let the innocent ones appeal their their case.

That's not how a legal system works. :rolleyes:

[Professional Russian]

That's not how a legal system works. :rolleyes:

god damn legal system i knew those bastards were corrupt they're taking bribes from the guys on death row

[StoppingTime]

god damn legal system i knew those bastards were corrupt they're taking bribes from the guys on death row

Let me rephrase: If they were innocent, they wouldn't be there at all, so you cannot just "pick them out."

[Professional Russian]

Let me rephrase: If they were innocent, they wouldn't be there at all, so you cannot just "pick them out."

well im pretty sure there are some you can pick out. If a murder leads exactly too them or they were cought doing it they should be taken to the front of the line and killed


Im gonna make my opinion clear.
If someone kills some one they should be put through the same tourcher they gave the person they killed. If it was up to me id take them to the woods Whip them with bull whips and hang em. Then they wouldnt do it again and it would send the message if you dont want this too happen to you dont murder. I dont give a fuck about what the 8th amendment says. Its cruel sure but it teach them a lesson and send a message. THats just my view. Any Objectors?

[StoppingTime]

well im pretty sure there are some you can pick out. If a murder leads exactly too them or they were cought doing it they should be taken to the front of the line and killed

Then the justice system wouldn't be a justice system, would it.

"Let's just pick these people out because they probably didn't do it." :yes:


Im gonna make my opinion clear.
If someone kills some one they should be put through the same tourcher [don't tourch me!] they gave the person they killed. If it was up to me id take them to the woods Whip them with bull whips and hang em.

Well, of course you would.


Then they wouldnt do it again and it would send the message if you dont want this too happen to you dont murder. I dont give a fuck about what the 8th amendment says. Its cruel sure but it teach them a lesson and send a message. THats just my view. Any Objectors?

How come you treat the 1st and 2nd amendment like they are the best thing that has ever happened to humanity, and yet, any of the other ones aren't as "good?"

[Professional Russian]

How come you treat the 1st and 2nd amendment like they are the best thing that has ever happened to humanity, and yet, any of the other ones aren't as "good?"

Because the 1st and 2nd amendment dont protect murderers

[StoppingTime]

How is it protecting murderers? By not torturing them? Because damn, that's what they deserve.

[Sugaree]

Because the 1st and 2nd amendment dont protect murderers

To paraphrase what Professional Russian has been saying in this thread: "I'm going to infringe upon your basic human rights because you don't deserve them. Also, guns."

[Professional Russian]

How is it protecting murderers? By not torturing them? Because damn, that's what they deserve.

If someone murders someone they deserve to be whipped and hung nothing less.

To paraphrase what Professional Russian has been saying in this thread: "I'm going to infringe upon your basic human rights because you don't deserve them. Also, guns."

No im not infringing human rights.Well i probably am but its what murders deserve.

[StoppingTime]

If someone murders someone they deserve to be whipped and hung nothing less.



No im not infringing human rights.Well i probably am but its what murders deserve.

Anyway, :rolleyes:

How is a torturous appropriate for a murderer? They are still human.

[Professional Russian]

Anyway, :rolleyes:

How is a torturous appropriate for a murderer? They are still human.

THey fucking killed someone they need to get the worst pain and then killed. NOt painlessly inject them thats an easy way out. If you put in a world of pain it will send a meesage not to kill people or this will happen to you. its not hard to understand.

[Sugaree]

No im not infringing human rights.Well i probably am

Quit back-peddling, you look like a spineless little imp.

THey fucking killed someone they need to get the worst pain and then killed. NOt painlessly inject them thats an easy way out. If you put in a world of pain it will send a meesage not to kill people or this will happen to you. its not hard to understand.

It's not hard to understand that these are human lives you're talking about. Just as a murderer has taken the life of another, what gives you or someone else the right to brutally torture them? Both acts are at the same level of unjustified violence, so why do you condone one and not the other? You are nothing more than a war-mongering, gun-clinging, backwoods fringe right wing nutcase whose opinions will become irrelevant by the end of the next two decades.

[Professional Russian]

Quit back-peddling, you look like a spineless little imp.



It's not hard to understand that these are human lives you're talking about. Just as a murderer has taken the life of another, what gives you or someone else the right to brutally torture them? Both acts are at the same level of unjustified violence, so why do you condone one and not the other? You are nothing more than a war-mongering, gun-clinging, backwoods fringe right wing nutcase whose opinions will become irrelevant by the end of the next two decades.

The killed an innocent person as soon they are proven guilty they are innocent and they do not deserve to be alive. They need to be taught a lesson that will also send a message.

[Sugaree]

The killed an innocent person as soon they are proven guilty they are innocent and they do not deserve to be alive. They need to be taught a lesson that will also send a message.

This is why our justice system is no longer based on beliefs like this. What you are suggesting goes against the 8th amendment and goes beyond the limits for cruel/unusual punishment.

[Professional Russian]

This is why our justice system is no longer based on beliefs like this. What you are suggesting goes against the 8th amendment and goes beyond the limits for cruel/unusual punishment.

Are justice system is full of corrupt judges that murders and know they will commit the crime again. The justice system is basically a dream for any who commits a crime. if starts brutally torturing people it will send a message and murder rates will go down. Murder Rates will go down because people will knwo they will be brutally tortured and hung. You guys think our justice system is fine. Your wrong our justice system is fucked up and needs to be changed.

[Sugaree]

Are justice system is full of corrupt judges that murders and know they will commit the crime again. The justice system is basically a dream for any who commits a crime. if starts brutally torturing people it will send a message and murder rates will go down. Murder Rates will go down because people will knwo they will be brutally tortured and hung. You guys think our justice system is fine. Your wrong our justice system is fucked up and needs to be changed.

You have no evidence that torture brings murder rates down. In what modern civilized country is torture a common practice of law for murderers? Jesus, if you're gonna make claims, fucking back them up.

[Professional Russian]

You have no evidence that torture brings murder rates down. In what modern civilized country is torture a common practice of law for murderers? Jesus, if you're gonna make claims, fucking back them up.

You cant have proof of that but still think about it. if you saw a murderer getting tortured would you want to kill someone and end up like that?

[Sugaree]

You cant have proof of that but still think about it. if you saw a murderer getting tortured would you want to kill someone and end up like that?

Just leave the debate forum until you learn how to back up your claims. You honestly believe that people should make judgments based on assumptions of other individuals. Stop posting here and learn how to properly debate. I'm getting tired of opening a thread and having to see posts like yours that do nothing but play on assumption.

[Professional Russian]

Just leave the debate forum until you learn how to back up your claims. You honestly believe that people should make judgments based on assumptions of other individuals. Stop posting here and learn how to properly debate. I'm getting tired of opening a thread and having to see posts like yours that do nothing but play on assumption.

Look its not hard to understand. IF someone sees something bad happen to another person while doing something they are going to least likely do what ever it was the person that something bad happend too. It applies to the death sentence as well. Its a physiological thing. if someone sees some get punished horrible for something bad they a less likely to that. so there wouldnt be as many murders because they would know what would happen. Its that simple.

[Abigballofdust]

Look its not hard to understand. IF someone sees something bad happen to another person while doing something they are going to least likely do what ever it was the person that something bad happend too. It applies to the death sentence as well. Its a physiological thing. if someone sees some get punished horrible for something bad they a less likely to that. so there wouldnt be as many murders because they would know what would happen. Its that simple.

Yes, that's completely correct since everybody kills each other in countries where death punishment does not exist.
Take England for example...they have 2 inhabitans left cos they all killed each other since nobody killed murderers and they all thought it was the fucking Hunger Games.
Where do you find such plain and underelaborated arguments? Why do you think it's all black and white when there are trillions of shades of grey?

[Professional Russian]

Yes, that's completely correct since everybody kills each other in countries where death punishment does not exist.
Take England for example...they have 2 inhabitans left cos they all killed each other since nobody killed murderers and they all thought it was the fucking Hunger Games.
Where do you find such plain and underelaborated arguments? Why do you think it's all black and white when there are trillions of shades of grey?

In my mind what i have said here makes complete sense. In my mind what i said here is the correct way to handle things. In my mind the Justice system are abunch of corrupt judges that take bribes and let people walk. If judges werent corrupt and we used the death sentence mor in the way i described i nearly guarenty you that the murder rate would go down. There is no proof of this but the fear factor of knowing youd get whipped and hung if you murdered someone wold probably make them not want to that. Its a physcological thing that does that. If there is a bad enogh concequence its going to make people think twice about doing something with a bad concequence. This might only make sense in my mind though.

[Heavyrain4life]

........ And some people wonder why i dont like to debate.

[Sugaree]

In my mind what i have said here makes complete sense. In my mind what i said here is the correct way to handle things. In my mind the Justice system are abunch of corrupt judges that take bribes and let people walk. If judges werent corrupt and we used the death sentence mor in the way i described i nearly guarenty you that the murder rate would go down. There is no proof of this but the fear factor of knowing youd get whipped and hung if you murdered someone wold probably make them not want to that. Its a physcological thing that does that. If there is a bad enogh concequence its going to make people think twice about doing something with a bad concequence. This might only make sense in my mind though.

Damn right it only makes sense in your mind. You want to toy with human lives by making people suffer. I don't know how you can call that fair treatment of another person, but I'm most perplexed as to how you can even consider YOURSELF human.

[Professional Russian]

Damn right it only makes sense in your mind. You want to toy with human lives by making people suffer. I don't know how you can call that fair treatment of another person, but I'm most perplexed as to how you can even consider YOURSELF human.

I say that because it will send a message to everyone. it will scare them shitless enough not to do that crime. Murderers get it too good these days you have to put them in a world of pain to make them and everyone learn a lesson.

[Sugaree]

I say that because it will send a message to everyone. it will scare them shitless enough not to do that crime. Murderers get it too good these days you have to put them in a world of pain to make them and everyone learn a lesson.

In essence, you want a police state that scares its citizens through means of torture. You want them to be afraid because, in your mind, it's logical. You want this country under a rule of tyranny just because you think some people have it "too easy". That's absolutely disgusting, incredibly demeaning to the human race, and just flat out wrong.

[Professional Russian]

In essence, you want a police state that scares its citizens through means of torture. You want them to be afraid because, in your mind, it's logical. You want this country under a rule of tyranny just because you think some people have it "too easy". That's absolutely disgusting, incredibly demeaning to the human race, and just flat out wrong.

If people live in fear of what would happen to them if they commit a major crime the crime rate would most likely go down

[Sugaree]

If people live in fear of what would happen to them if they commit a major crime the crime rate would most likely go down

So you want people to cower in their homes, say they love their government for being so diligent in keeping the crime rate down, and live their lives in total fear of just breathing the wrong way? That's exactly what you want. That's un-American, and I hardly ever use that term to describe something.

[Professional Russian]

So you want people to cower in their homes, say they love their government for being so diligent in keeping the crime rate down, and live their lives in total fear of just breathing the wrong way? That's exactly what you want. That's un-American, and I hardly ever use that term to describe something.

no i said major crimes. Murder, RObbery, assassinations the people that committed those crimes deserve to be put into a world of pain.

[Sugaree]

no i said major crimes. Murder, RObbery, assassinations the people that committed those crimes deserve to be put into a world of pain.

Just leave this thread. You're trying to scaremonger and it's disgustingly failed. You have yet to convince anyone here that major criminals "deserve to be put into a world of pain" JUST because of their actions. You assume that none of these people actually regret what they had done and have tried to atone for those actions; all you want to see is their bodies hung high from a tree. Just go away.

[Professional Russian]

Just leave this thread. You're trying to scaremonger and it's disgustingly failed. You have yet to convince anyone here that major criminals "deserve to be put into a world of pain" JUST because of their actions. You assume that none of these people actually regret what they had done and have tried to atone for those actions; all you want to see is their bodies hung high from a tree. Just go away.

well 1. its my thread and 2.Oh yeah lets them get out of jail and maybe commit a crime again. todays death is a dream for a criminal. we need a death sentence that would scare anybody out of killing. i dont get joy out of killing people. im trying to make a better country.

[StoppingTime]

well 1. its my thread and 2.Oh yeah lets them get out of jail and maybe commit a crime again. todays death is a dream for a criminal. we need a death sentence that would scare anybody out of killing. i dont get joy out of killing people. im trying to make a better country.

Good thing you aren't in charge of "making a better country."
You seem to have disregarded what was just posted, completely. (Well damn, I'm surprised). Not every murderer is this vicious soulless "thing" that you think. They are people. Some of them do in fact regret what they did, and therefore, they, or anyone, doesn't deserve a "world of pain."
People are people, regardless of what they may or may not have done. And, as people, they have basic rights. (That document you love so much mentions those, too).
--
And please, don't try and lecture anyone here. "Today's death is a dream for criminals..." You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Professional Russian]

Good thing you aren't in charge of "making a better country."
You seem to have disregarded what was just posted, completely. (Well damn, I'm surprised). Not every murderer is this vicious soulless "thing" that you think. They are people. Some of them do in fact regret what they did, and therefore, they, or anyone, doesn't deserve a "world of pain."
People are people, regardless of what they may or may not have done. And, as people, they have basic rights. (That document you love so much mentions those, too).
--
And please, don't try and lecture anyone here. "Today's death is a dream for criminals..." You have no idea what you are talking about.

If they arent souless why did they kill in the first place. the mentally ill shit aint cutting it for me in very few cases id that true. If someone kills they deserve to be killed. Like that guy in colorado. hes one of the people that deserve to be whipped and hung.

[Sugaree]

If they arent souless why did they kill in the first place. the mentally ill shit aint cutting it for me in very few cases id that true. If someone kills they deserve to be killed. Like that guy in colorado. hes one of the people that deserve to be whipped and hung.

You doubt the complexity of human action and emotion. Just stop while you're far behind, because you're losing harder than the Cubs in a World Series. You've got quite the nerve to be calling mental illness "shit" on a forum where most of us are actually going through mental trouble. If you're going to accuse someone of having no soul because they killed another human, but turn back and kill the murderer, you also have no soul. You are not a fair judge, you are a teenager who thinks violence solves all problems. We don't need that here.

[huginnmuninn]

people shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people. That being said I would like to say that not all people deserve to live (my opinion, obviously) and the death penalty is a good way to get rid of them. Well it would be if it didn't cost so damn much. Maybe they should make it so that any one sentenced to death only had a year to come up with a case that would change the ruling and a smaller number of appeals to rely on.

[Professional Russian]

You doubt the complexity of human action and emotion. Just stop while you're far behind, because you're losing harder than the Cubs in a World Series. You've got quite the nerve to be calling mental illness "shit" on a forum where most of us are actually going through mental trouble. If you're going to accuse someone of having no soul because they killed another human, but turn back and kill the murderer, you also have no soul. You are not a fair judge, you are a teenager who thinks violence solves all problems. We don't need that here.

No violence wont fix everything but the Death sentence has to be harsh hell if i killed someone id rather get painlessly lethally injected than be jail all my life. and if you can scare the living shit out of people they are less likely to commit the crime. And the mental illness case is a bunch of shit they use it as an excuse all the time very few times is it actually true.

[Magus]

If people live in fear of what would happen to them if they commit a major crime the crime rate would most likely go down

What it looks, the time crime rate hasn't dropped much.

And the states which have death sentence has even more crime rate than the states which haven't.

Increased death penalties implies one thing and one thing only: more homicide (http://www.umass.edu/legal/Lorenz/DeathPenalty/Galliher%20and%20Galliher.pdf)

People who commit high level crime aren't in the correct state to look for consequences, you see.

Even if they do, they would prepare themselves.

[Professional Russian]

What it looks, the time crime rate hasn't dropped much.

And the states which have death sentence has even more crime rate than the states which haven't.

Increased death penalties implies one thing and one thing only: more homicide (http://www.umass.edu/legal/Lorenz/DeathPenalty/Galliher%20and%20Galliher.pdf)

People who commit high level crime aren't in the correct state to look for consequences, you see.

Even if they do, they would prepare themselves.

THats because the death sentence today is painless if its as painful as can possible be people will live in fear of that and not commit major crimes such as murder and all that fun stuff.

[Levy]

Personally, I don't care either way. Throw them in jail, or sentence them to death. The U.S. is the only "civilized" country to still have the death penalty, but what ever stopped us from being different anyway? And it's not about the pain to me, it's that long walk knowing that you are about to die that is truly frightening.

[Human]

I think they should abolish the death penalty

[Professional Russian]

I think they should abolish the death penalty

Why?

[Magus]

THats because the death sentence today is painless if its as painful as can possible be people will live in fear of that and not commit major crimes such as murder and all that fun stuff.

If you bother reading that link, it was when asphyxiation by hanging and electrocution was still inacted.

[Professional Russian]

If you bother reading that link, it was when asphyxiation by hanging and electrocution was still inacted.

well then i may be rong but we'll never know unless it happens.

[bigfoot]

I think we should have a big island in the middle of the ocean where we put all of the people that would normally get the death sentence.We won't have to deal with them anymore.

[Stephan]

I'd use it as a last resort for only the most churlish and heinous crimes.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

As long as its humane or self defense.

[SosbanFach]

As long as its humane or self defense.

You'll have to forgive me for saying this, but I fail to see how capital punishment could possibly be considered an act of self defence. Capital punishment is a sentence, pronounced in court, in the same way as is, for example, a sentence of life imprisonment, not the killing of a criminal by a victim while the crime is taking place.

[Jean Poutine]

I think we should have a big island in the middle of the ocean where we put all of the people that would normally get the death sentence.We won't have to deal with them anymore.

We had that once, it's called Australia.

[Heavyrain4life]

Damn. Are you two still going at it? Give it a rest man.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

You'll have to forgive me for saying this, but I fail to see how capital punishment could possibly be considered an act of self defence. Capital punishment is a sentence, pronounced in court, in the same way as is, for example, a sentence of life imprisonment, not the killing of a criminal by a victim while the crime is taking place.

If the killer struck you you'd have the right of self defense. Exactly what I mean. For instance Shotgun to the face?

[Professional Russian]

If the killer struck you you'd have the right of self defense. Exactly what I mean. For instance Shotgun to the face?

THats not the death sentence. we're not talking about self defense we are talking about the death sentence

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Oh. Lethal injection then, no "old Sparky"

[Carlsen]

Do You guys think all the US should use the death sentence? Heres my theory if you kill someone you should be killed(excluding Military and police or in self defense)
.
There is no government that should have death sentence. The death sentence make the government as guilty as the person who killed.



.

[dmb1996]

only in some instances