is homosexuality natural?

[ExhibitG]

okay before anyone claims i'm homophobic or anything like that, let me just clarify that i am bisexual myself and i support gay marriage and equality and all that good stuff.

moving on. i've been pondering this lately and i can't seem to come up with a good answer, so i'm turning to the virtual teen community of knowledge. is homosexuality natural? yes, seriously. just think about it. if we as humans were meant to procreate, why exactly are there a small minority of people who are attracted to the same sex and therefore can't procreate?

is it possible that homosexuality is some sort of genetic disorder? honestly, i've just been looking for a really solid answer that proves it's not a disorder so i can shove it in the faces of ignoramuses everywhere. but i can't seem to come up with one. like why am i attracted to men if by human nature i can't "be fruitful and multiply" with them?

[ImCoolBeans]

It's something that occurs in nature, therefore wouldn't that mean it's "natural"? It's not synthetic, it's not material. It can be perceived in many different ways but I believe that it's just the way your brain chemistry acts.

[CaliKid24]

The way I see it, other animals (for example: dogs) have sex with their own gender, so I guess it has to be natural, right??

[vitorioso]

It most certainly is. It happens in other species and has been occurring on a regular basis in our civilisations for the past 3,000 years.

[ExhibitG]

okay sure it's "natural" in the sense that it occurs in nature -- perhaps that wasn't the right word to use -- but that doesn't explain why homosexuals can't procreate.

[ImCoolBeans]

okay sure it's "natural" in the sense that it occurs in nature -- perhaps that wasn't the right word to use -- but that doesn't explain why homosexuals can't procreate.

Many homosexuals use a surrogate service with their own semen.

[Lovemeorleaveme]

Homosexuality is one of natures big questions, and i think that you have asked it in a very good way. I don't think that present day science has a answer for this yet. People that belive in god can say its his handy work, unless of coarse they're homophobic.I think for now lets just say that even though it may not seem to have a practicle use in nature it seems to be working pretty well for us.

[ExhibitG]

Homosexuality is one of natures big questions, and i think that you have asked it in a very good way. I don't think that present day science has a answer for this yet. People that belive in god can say its his handy work, unless of coarse they're homophobic.I think for now lets just say that even though it may not seem to have a practicle use in nature it seems to be working pretty well for us.

very mature answer for a 13-year-old :) even though i never like having to face the sad truth that some things we just aren't as a society capable of answering, but i suppose it's true in some cases.

[Montesquieu15]

It's something that occurs in nature, therefore wouldn't that mean it's "natural"? It's not synthetic, it's not material. It can be perceived in many different ways but I believe that it's just the way your brain chemistry acts.

Genetic disorders are among other things that occur in nature. That doesn't mean it's natural. Homosexuality could just as easily fit this "disorder" category. And for those of you who are going to jump on me for saying above statement, you can't dismiss this possibility just as equally as you can't dismiss that it might be genetic.

You can't really rely on VT to give you answers supported by scientific backing. Answers here would be corrupted with some degree of opinion. Any answer would have to be regarded as opinion, unless of course the person provides citation. But even then, the scientific community is conflicted on this area.

What I want to know is if homosexuality is in fact genetic, doesn't natural selection eventually remove it from the gene pool? Closeted homosexuals who live a straight lifestyle are too small a population to continue the gene, and it's been present even before the Romans. I don't think this is a valid answer.

[ExhibitG]

i thought more about the subject last night and came up with something in favor of the argument that it's not any type of disorder: homosexuals aren't infertile. i was wrong to say that they can't procreate because they easily can with a woman. just because they aren't attracted to women doesn't mean they can't have children. so if everyone in the world was gay, the human race could still advance easily.

[OregonStateDude]

Of course it's natural.


Is it possible that homosexuality is some sort of genetic disorder?

I've thought about this a few times. But I wouldn't label it as a disorder, it's more like something different. For example, I'm left-handed, which isn't as common, but I wouldn't call that a disorder either.

I am convinced that it's genetic though (in my case anyways). Once I realized that I was attracted to other guys, I never tried to fight off those urges. That tells me that I was born this way and nothing can change it. :D

[Jacketh]

It's something that occurs in nature, therefore wouldn't that mean it's "natural"? It's not synthetic, it's not material. It can be perceived in many different ways but I believe that it's just the way your brain chemistry acts.

This is the way I see it.

It angers me that the minority (the homophobes) can't see it this way. Don't even get me starts on far right extremists.

[Neverender]

There's definitely some generic predisposition to homosexual attraction and behavior, however we haven't discovered it.

And you're talking as if Gays couldn't have sex with the opposite Gender if they wanted children. Procreation is the least of our worries with 7 Billion people on the planet already

[Pipo]

I'm gay and yea I think it comes naturally.

I believe so cuz of my childhood I think that's the biggest reason for it. I also tried to be "straight" but it made me unhappy and I accepted the fact I wasn't straight. Of course I didn't know what is gay when I was 10yo and kissing my best friend (boy).

I've read that men who are gay have more feminine hormones than man hormones.

[Anyone51]

I think certainly some choose it and identify with that from experience and chosen focus on that desire - but totally natural for other people - it's in their DNA: born that way.

Whether it's 'natural' or the result of genetic change and influence I dunno, I am sure there has always been homosexual people and creatures

[LatinaVivit]

I think homosexuality comes with education and free choice. When you think about it, it really makes sense. Most of the world really hasn't been educated until the past 100 years or so; the same time, in fact, that the term "homosexual" was coined. I wouldn't necessarily say it's "natural" but if we didn't use things that aren't "natural", we wouldn't be driving cars, have glasses, or even be able to talk on this website!

[blondebeast]

i believe that it is natural

[Iron Man]

Well, seeing as over 1500 species practice homosexuality, I would say it is normal.

[Starlight Blaze]

Well I agree with what people are saying about natural as shown through other species. But I don't think it has to do with genetics or any of that stuff. Well, maybe it does to some extent or in some cases, but not always.
(Sorry in advance for anybody who's looking for complete science.)
I think it has something to do with souls being made in pairs. And the fact that a soul can fit into either sex body. So if two souls that were paired were put in the same sex body, of course they would feel attracted to the same sex. As far as bisexuals go, I don't really know. Perhaps confusion in the soul about their "soulmate".
Again, sorry for those who want a scientific answer, but at least it's a logical answer. Some things can not be explained through the somewhat primitive science we have today.

[Dobesta]

Well I doubt very much that it's genetic seeing as the gene could not be passed on to other offspring unless they have sex with a member of the opposite sex for the sole purpose of having a baby.
But, apparently an incredible proportion of giraffes are homosexual. (Watch vlogbrothers on youtube for more information lol).
I think especially in humans, homosexuality can (doesn't always, but can) arise after some form of deviation in their homelife from a mother, father family. (ie someone is more likely to be gay if they do not have an adult male role model present such as a dad)

[Abigballofdust]

i thought more about the subject last night and came up with something in favor of the argument that it's not any type of disorder: homosexuals aren't infertile. i was wrong to say that they can't procreate because they easily can with a woman. just because they aren't attracted to women doesn't mean they can't have children. so if everyone in the world was gay, the human race could still advance easily.

Well, as you said, humanity could advance easily. In fact, if my only urge from life was to procreate and have children, my own children, I could easily have sex with a woman and make her pregnant. It would last more, my mind would be somewhere else, I wouldn't enjoy it, but this all doesn't count. What counts is the fact that you ejaculated in her sexual organ during her fertile phase and that you procreated once your spermatozoon entered the female ovum. However, nature decided that 5% of the whole population would not be able to feel attraction to the other sex and therefore procreate, although we may not comprehend it there MUST be a reason for that.

[DerBear]

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u401/derri5/295268_356514281084279_132809758_n.jpg

What do you think?

I think it is natural.

[Tightjeans]

Not for me it isn't.

[Gandalf]

image omitted.

What do you think?
I think it is natural.

I was about to post that, I must admit I skim over.

Anyway, it occurs in all these other species, so I guess what ever theory of creation you believe in it was no accident that homosexuality occurs.

[Sean4U]

I think physical intimacy with the same sex is more common than not....Yes, there may be what has been said about 5% o the human population that is gay, but many more than 5% of the population have a sexual experience with the same gender ... there are many who live a straight lifestyle that long and practice sexual release with their same gender either for "variety" or because they feel more comfortable and secure when having sex with their own gender....Now to the original question---Yes I believe that it is a natural phenomenon...

[Inventor2]

Well they werent created by a science expeirement, so of coarse its natural

[Twilly F. Sniper]

It's a natural disposition towards the same gender.

[havingfun]

.............

[derpderp]

The way I look at it is this. Human heterosexuality is natural, because a man and woman first did it without it being created or forced, it just happened.

Oh, wait...

Human homosexuality is natural, because a man/woman and man/woman first did it without it being created or forced, it just happened.

Yeap...

[HOLEinyoursoul]

Homosexuality is probably more natural than the milk you pour on your cereal. It appears in over 400 species on our planet including: dolphins, giraffes, horses, humans ^_^, swans. In fact, some species will end up having more "homosex" than actual reproductive sex with the opposite sex. Society, homophobic radicals in religion, gangs, you get the point have made up being gay to be a weak and demeaning thing, but it isn't.

[ExhibitG]

The way I look at it is this. Human heterosexuality is natural, because a man and woman first did it without it being created or forced, it just happened.

Oh, wait...

Human homosexuality is natural, because a man/woman and man/woman first did it without it being created or forced, it just happened.

Yeap...

i have no idea what you just said lol.

[KenBoy6]

Its norm to me

[SkeptiqL]

It's definitely natural I don't think anyone here would've chosen to be gay. To be flamboyant maybe but not gay. I think too much pressure comes with it for people to willingly choose to be gay.

[Silver Fox]

Humans are a part of nature, and love is natural, so yeah, it's natural! :D

[SaxyHaloBeast]

No. It's not.

By saying "because a lot of animals can be homosexual, humans are natural by doing it", you are saying you are no better than a common animal. So you are saying that by being gay you are acting like animals. I guess if your okay with that then go ahead.

A gay once told me that being gay is the same as a birth defect. It was a change in gene stucture and DNA coding and what not. Well a normal/natural person would have little to no defects so if you do have one you would not be considered normal/natural. This came from a homosexual man. If being gay is a defect, then it is not natural.

Why do gays want to feel natural? No one is 100% natural or normal. We all have things that make us different whether by our own choices or by the way we were raised. Gays - whether by your own choice or whatever, being homosexual is what makes you different. If you don't like that fact, I'm sorry. You can probably change it if you want to. I have things that make me different. I've accepted that. I've realized what makes me normal and makes me not. If I wanted to, I could probably change.

No. It is not completely natural or normal. If you don't like being different, then don't be. Don't feel like your entire life has been pre-determined, that you don't have a say. It is your life after all. Do with it what you want and don't be bother by labels. Yes. I am homophobic. I know that. I deal with it. I'm ok with it. If you are gay, be it. Do it. Don't be worried with terms like natural and normal. Be who you want to be because it's your choice. If you aren't gay, okay then. Same thing. Be who you want to be because, once again, it's your choice.

No desire to offend here. Sorry if I did.

[Stryker125]

I consider it a preference. Not a genetic thing, but not necessarily a choice either. I love the shit out of pizza. I wasn't born with a genetic predisposition to loving pizza, I just do. I never chose to like pizza, and I can't make myself hate pizza. It's just something I like.

^^Did I make my point?

[SaxyHaloBeast]

^ I have to admit. You did make sense and I think your right. But if you wanted to, you could stop eating pizza. You don't want to......but you could. That was my point. No matter your preferences, you still have the choice to act on them. Do you see my point?

[JimmyIsNowAMan]

Most people are right handed...are the lefties "disordered"???

[Stryker125]

^ I have to admit. You did make sense and I think your right. But if you wanted to, you could stop eating pizza. You don't want to......but you could. That was my point. No matter your preferences, you still have the choice to act on them. Do you see my point?

Yeah I totally get your point. I was getting at the fact that even though I may not eat pizza (i actually haven't in a while) I still love it. My love of pizza is still there, whether or not I act on it.

[paterico]

Double post. Nevermind.

[paterico]

No. It's not.

By saying "because a lot of animals can be homosexual, humans are natural by doing it", you are saying you are no better than a common animal. So you are saying that by being gay you are acting like animals. I guess if your okay with that then go ahead.

A gay once told me that being gay is the same as a birth defect. It was a change in gene stucture and DNA coding and what not. Well a normal/natural person would have little to no defects so if you do have one you would not be considered normal/natural. This came from a homosexual man. If being gay is a defect, then it is not natural.

Why do gays want to feel natural? No one is 100% natural or normal. We all have things that make us different whether by our own choices or by the way we were raised. Gays - whether by your own choice or whatever, being homosexual is what makes you different. If you don't like that fact, I'm sorry. You can probably change it if you want to. I have things that make me different. I've accepted that. I've realized what makes me normal and makes me not. If I wanted to, I could probably change.

No. It is not completely natural or normal. If you don't like being different, then don't be. Don't feel like your entire life has been pre-determined, that you don't have a say. It is your life after all. Do with it what you want and don't be bother by labels. Yes. I am homophobic. I know that. I deal with it. I'm ok with it. If you are gay, be it. Do it. Don't be worried with terms like natural and normal. Be who you want to be because it's your choice. If you aren't gay, okay then. Same thing. Be who you want to be because, once again, it's your choice.

No desire to offend here. Sorry if I did.

Made no sense whatsoever. Saying that there's homosexuality in animals is evidence of it being normal. You said that if we use it as evidence, we are comparing ourselves to common animals. But don't common animals also have sex and relationships with the opposite sex too? Your whole view on the subject matter is flawed.

[billia]

Of course it's natural. The number of organisms that have been observed, recorded, and catalogued is actually well over 400. It's over 1000 now.

As for comparing ourselves to animals: We are animals. We're just intelligent ones. And because I can choose not to have sex with a guy, doesn't mean I don't want to anymore. The desire is what's natural. Besides, who cares if it's natural. Air conditioning isn't natural. Eye glasses aren't natural. Clothes aren't natural... Get over the natural stuff.

On the genetic area: There is a species of lizard that has lost all of the males in it's species. It's seriously a species of lizard that only has females. Somehow, all the boys died off or something. WELL, to reproduce, the female lizards assume gender roles. One will act as the male and the other will act as the female. This actually jump starts both of the females egg laying process without the actual exchange of bodily fluids. Perhaps the thing with homosexual humans is similar to this?

ALSO, there is now proof of bilogical evidence of homosexuality. The male homosexual's brain is shaped and operates more similarly to the female heterosexuals brain. I can find sources if you like. On all of this. I did a report on it for school.

One last thing: All of the medical, psychiatric, psychological associations, organization and other programs have removed homosexuality from their lists of disorders. They voice opposition to actually trying to change it. I can find a source for this too...

[oneDay]

I believe it is more nuture than nature. Most of the gays I have met have had some sort of tramatic sexual experience in their early life. I have seen it in my own family, where 2 members have been molested by gays and it has left a lasting impression on them, altering them sexually for the rest of their lives. They both remained straight, but they have had hard times when it comes to relationships and stuff. Disagree with me if you want, but it is not going to change my opinion.

As much as I resist the urge to post on this particular forum I couldn't help it.
Firstly, how can you claim that 2 of your own family members were molested by "gays" (by that I assume you mean a homosexual) when you have no proof? Secondly, how does that make your point? Saying that they both "remained straight" tells me nothing about your experience with homosexuals that have had any form of sexual abuse. Thirdly, if both members of your family continued living their lives' while struggling with relationships as heterosexuals, it hasn't altered their sexuality in any way. Why even point that out? And lastly, do you believe that homosexuality is natural? Can you at least answer that?

[SaxyHaloBeast]

My point with the animals thing was: Would you really want to compare yourselves to simple animals when you yourselves have much higher brain capabilities? If it doesn't make sense, i'm sorry. It does to me and I apologize if it offends.

I'm not sure who said it, but one of you said that lighting and clothing and stuff like that are all artificial, created by humans. That is correct. Humans, who can easily create and think of new ideas, would have easily been able to look at two men or two women and say "Hey let's put them together and see what happens, just for fun!" and they might have liked it so they developed feelings for the same sex because of it. It was no brain gene, DNA code, predisposition, God destined, etc. that made them do it. They just came up with the idea. Can you tell me that this may not be true?

[billia]

Yes I can tell you that it may not be true. Do you mean to say that other people determine my sexuality? Cause you'd only be right to a certain extent. Hot guys, yeah they help with the confusion. But I don't let people put me with a girl or boy and then decide whether or not it's fun. And with your example of saying someone just liked it so they developed feelings, that doesn't explain every single homosexual. That explains two. And yes, as I stated earlier, there is evidence in the brian. You can't just deny the science...

[Magenta]

My point with the animals thing was: Would you really want to compare yourselves to simple animals when you yourselves have much higher brain capabilities? If it doesn't make sense, i'm sorry. It does to me and I apologize if it offends.

I'm not sure who said it, but one of you said that lighting and clothing and stuff like that are all artificial, created by humans. That is correct. Humans, who can easily create and think of new ideas, would have easily been able to look at two men or two women and say "Hey let's put them together and see what happens, just for fun!" and they might have liked it so they developed feelings for the same sex because of it. It was no brain gene, DNA code, predisposition, God destined, etc. that made them do it. They just came up with the idea. Can you tell me that this may not be true?

So your entire argument here is that because humans are better than animals and animals have natural homosexual relationships, in order to be better than them, we should not be homosexual? Because that's the reasoning you're putting across. I'll gladly compare myself to an animal with lower brain capabilities if it means being who I am. Just because we are more intelligent does not mean anything. Does being homosexual make us any less intelligent because we practice the same thing a simple animal does? No.

As I have heard endlessly and have quoted endlessly: homosexuality exists in many species while homophobia only exists in one. Now which is unnatural?

Also, I did not "come up with the idea" to date, kiss, love, have sex with a girl. It was not the actions that led to the feelings, it was the feelings that lead to the actions. If you're saying that the love one man can feel for another man or a woman can feel for another woman is artificial, you are incredibly wrong. There are a lot of children introduced to the concept of homosexuality (or homophobia) but I, a an example, did not know that there were girls who only liked boys. I thought, until I was about 12 or 13, that every girl liked girls as well as boys or were like me and liked girls. I had never been exposed to any sort of homosexual relationship until I was around that same age. There was no way I could have just developed the feelings or have come up with the idea because there was no trigger for any of it. I love who I love and always have and have always been incredibly open about it.

[War-Is-Real]

Homosexuality is within itself normal. It's not a choice, because who the fuck would choose to be hated and shunned. Homosexuality is a [slight] genetic mix-up. Most people don't find out till they are 11-25yo. So that makes it appear as a choice.

[Magenta]

Homosexuality is within itself normal. It's not a choice, because who the fuck would choose to be hated and shunned. Homosexuality is a [slight] genetic mix-up. Most people don't find out till they are 11-25yo. So that makes it appear as a choice.

I am curious though as to how it is genetic. That much I don't believe, at least with women. As far as I'm concerned, genetically I am a perfectly healthy human being which would make having a defect incredibly odd. But it can't be hereditary because there is no one in my family who is gay or bisexual or anything other than heterosexual.

I'm not really denying the idea that it could be genetic, I just don't understand it.

[War-Is-Real]

It's not a disease, it's not [considered] a genetic disorder. This slightly altered gene is very minute, and will only alter sexuality. Health will not be affected, and can this small change is not detected by ultrasound, and can't be found in the bloodstream. As for it being hereditory, that is f-ed up bullshit. No one in my family [previous gen] has been anything but heterosexual. So it isn't hereditory.

[Magenta]

It's not a disease, it's not [considered] a genetic disorder. This slightly altered gene is very minute, and will only alter sexuality. Health will not be affected, and can this small change is not detected by ultrasound, and can't be found in the bloodstream. As for it being hereditory, that is f-ed up bullshit. No one in my family [previous gen] has been anything but heterosexual. So it isn't hereditory.

And where is the evidence of this?

[Gigablue]

Homosexuality has been observed in hundreds of different species, so yes it is natural.

As for whether it's genetic, there is still controversy. If it were purely genetic it would have been removed from the gene pool by natural selection, since it leads to less reproduction. This would inevitably happen if it were a dominant trait. Therefore homosexuality is almost certainly not a dominant genetic trait.

There are more possibilities if it is a recessive trait. It could lead to some advantage in heterozygotes, people with one copy of the gene, which leads to greater survival. This could balance out its deleterious effect on homozygotes.

However, no single gene has ever been found to cause homosexuality, and it is likely that, if it is purely genetic, it is a polygenetic trait, i.e. one caused by multiple genes. This would be harder to track. There is some evidence that it runs in families, which would suggest a genetic basis.

It is more likely, however, that homosexuality is the result of the interaction between environmental and genetic factors. Some non genetic factors have been shown to increase the incidence of homosexuality. One significant factor for males is the fraternal birth order. The more older brothers a man has, the more likely he is to be gay. This happen whether he is raised with his brothers or separately. It is known that having boys changes the environment in the womb for subsequent pregnancies, specifically the hormone levels. This evidence suggests that prenatal hormones can affect sexuality. This is an environmental cause, not a genetic one.

It is unlikely that it is caused solely by environmental factors, since the known environmental causes cannot account for the incidence of homosexuality.

It is very unlikely that it is a choice. Given the discrimination faced by homosexuals, there is no reason that someone would choose to be gay.

To conclude, homosexuality is natural, and most likely that result of complex interactions between genetic and environmental factors.

[West Coast Sheriff]

I don't think so

[paterico]

My point with the animals thing was: Would you really want to compare yourselves to simple animals when you yourselves have much higher brain capabilities? If it doesn't make sense, i'm sorry. It does to me and I apologize if it offends.

No no no. We're not comparing ourselves to "simple animals", we're comparing ourselves to nature, hence this discussion is about how natural homosexuality is. If its seen in nature, many times, it is a natural behaviour. Simple as.

[Lovely637]

It's natural I guess since you may have that inherited too.

[Jonathan1998]

True Homosexuality is one of the world's biggest questions and to me it's a natural thing, there are loads of people against it who are gay but that means they're denying their true feelings and living a lie, being Homosexual is something we should embrace and love about others and not hate others for it.*cough*Catholics and Anti-Gays!*cough* Like Lady Gaga says being Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Transgender, Straight etc.
It's not a choice we were born with it but some choose to ignore it but remember be yourself gay or not, you are loved by the people around you and don't ever forget that! :yummy:

[guycuberguy]

Its not only natural its from birth to its when you get more of the male attract hormones and it makes you attracted to men
(sorry about my english lol)

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I hate the saying "Why would they choose to be ridiculed and harrassed and bullied?!?" Plenty of people make choices that will get them crap from other people. I had to wear glasses when I was younger. If I didn't want to be made fun of, I could have not worn them. But I chose to wear them even though I got crap because I prefered to see clearly. Some people get made fun of for the clothes they wear. They can change clothes, but maybe they like the ones they already have so that's what they choose. Plenty of people get made fun of, bullied, harrassed, and ridiculed because of what they look like or act like. They could change those things to stop being bullied, but maybe they don't because they prefer the way they are. Why would being gay be any different? You get made fun of because of your sexuality and don't want to be? Well then you have two options. 1 - Find some way to change because i'm sure that it is possible. 2 - Stay the same because you like it that way and deal with the people who make fun of you.

It is ignorant to believe that you were planned out completely from birth. Your genes and your DNA are amazing little things. They can determine a ton of things about you (most noticably, your appearance). It can have a hand in shaping your personality and emotional aspects, but it doesn't have full control. Your DNA can't tell the future and it doesn't decide your future. You, your world, and the way you interact with the world decide your future. As a baby, do you think your sexuality was already decided? You first had to learn that you were even having feelings for anything. Then you had to find out what those feelings even were. The point is, you have control over your mind and body. Do with it as you want. Gay, straight, bi, whatever. Doesn't matter what others think. It's still you and your decisions to be whatever you want to be.

If you didn't have choice, what would be the point of life?

[Magus]

Define Natural.

[LatinaVivit]

I hate the saying "Why would they choose to be ridiculed and harrassed and bullied?!?" Plenty of people make choices that will get them crap from other people. I had to wear glasses when I was younger. If I didn't want to be made fun of, I could have not worn them. But I chose to wear them even though I got crap because I prefered to see clearly. Some people get made fun of for the clothes they wear. They can change clothes, but maybe they like the ones they already have so that's what they choose. Plenty of people get made fun of, bullied, harrassed, and ridiculed because of what they look like or act like. They could change those things to stop being bullied, but maybe they don't because they prefer the way they are. Why would being gay be any different? You get made fun of because of your sexuality and don't want to be? Well then you have two options. 1 - Find some way to change because i'm sure that it is possible. 2 - Stay the same because you like it that way and deal with the people who make fun of you.

It is ignorant to believe that you were planned out completely from birth. Your genes and your DNA are amazing little things. They can determine a ton of things about you (most noticably, your appearance). It can have a hand in shaping your personality and emotional aspects, but it doesn't have full control. Your DNA can't tell the future and it doesn't decide your future. You, your world, and the way you interact with the world decide your future. As a baby, do you think your sexuality was already decided? You first had to learn that you were even having feelings for anything. Then you had to find out what those feelings even were. The point is, you have control over your mind and body. Do with it as you want. Gay, straight, bi, whatever. Doesn't matter what others think. It's still you and your decisions to be whatever you want to be.

If you didn't have choice, what would be the point of life?

Number one: how much about psychology do you know? Did you know that the brain has about 1000 trillion connections? Do you know how often DNA replication has a mistake? About every 5 billion bases is a mistake. The math ends up being around 200,000 base pairs being off. Do you even doubt for a second that maybe being gay could happen in there? One more question: did Rosa Parks choose to be black? Did Stephen Hawking choose to have ASL? No, because that's just biology doing its thing, and it's extremely ignorant and arrogant for you to assume that homosexuality is a choice.

But you know what, let's assume you're right that being gay is a choice. WHY would we choose to be gay? We wouldn't. Lemme answer your question with another one, when did you decide to be straight? No sentient or sane person would choose to live a life with ridicule and bigotry, so I'm not really sure why you made that point.

You can have whatever opinion you want, but when the science adds up and millions of people say that it's not a choice, you're pretty much saying the world is flat and dinosaurs were put here by the devil.

Hopefully I've illuminated your mind just a little; hopefully you aren't a wet match in a dark cave somewhere on this issue anymore.

[paterico]

it's extremely ignorant and arrogant for you to assume that homosexuality is a choice.

Thank you!
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

And yes, I did just steal a Martin Luther King Jr. quote.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Let me answer your question with a question.

Do you enjoy being gay? Do you love someone of your own sex? Do you like being the way you are?

If you say yes, then THAT is why you would choose to be gay. Because YOU love it. Because that's the way YOU enjoy to be. Not because any one is making you or because you have no other choice. But because YOU want to.

If you say no, well then why do something you don't enjoy? Don't believe you have no control. Fight for what you want no matter how hard it may seem. That's what Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. and all those great people did. They changed things. It wasn't easy, but they did it. The people fighting to cure cancer probably aren't going to get it for a while, but they keep on trying because they want to change things. If you have the desire, you can change things. You have the power to do great things.

I didn't choose to be straight. I developed feelings for the opposite gender sometime in elementary. I just grew up that way. I don't think it was anything in my DNA telling me to like this girl. It just happened that way. I'm sure that's how it works with gays as well. You develop feelings for the same gender. Bi people develop feelings for both genders. It happens in your development. But even after development you can still change. Sexuality is no exception. Plenty of people have gone from being straight to being gay and vice versa. There is always choice to do what you want and be who you want to be. You are the decider.

[Bath]

Homosexuality is natural. Humans are not above nature. If an animal had relations with another one of it's species that's the same sex, it would be considered natural. It's the same for humans. We are as much of nature as "lesser" animals are.

[billia]

I hate the saying "Why would they choose to be ridiculed and harrassed and bullied?!?" Plenty of people make choices that will get them crap from other people. I had to wear glasses when I was younger. If I didn't want to be made fun of, I could have not worn them. But I chose to wear them even though I got crap because I prefered to see clearly. Some people get made fun of for the clothes they wear. They can change clothes, but maybe they like the ones they already have so that's what they choose. Plenty of people get made fun of, bullied, harrassed, and ridiculed because of what they look like or act like. They could change those things to stop being bullied, but maybe they don't because they prefer the way they are. Why would being gay be any different? You get made fun of because of your sexuality and don't want to be? Well then you have two options. 1 - Find some way to change because i'm sure that it is possible. 2 - Stay the same because you like it that way and deal with the people who make fun of you.

It is ignorant to believe that you were planned out completely from birth. Your genes and your DNA are amazing little things. They can determine a ton of things about you (most noticably, your appearance). It can have a hand in shaping your personality and emotional aspects, but it doesn't have full control. Your DNA can't tell the future and it doesn't decide your future. You, your world, and the way you interact with the world decide your future. As a baby, do you think your sexuality was already decided? You first had to learn that you were even having feelings for anything. Then you had to find out what those feelings even were. The point is, you have control over your mind and body. Do with it as you want. Gay, straight, bi, whatever. Doesn't matter what others think. It's still you and your decisions to be whatever you want to be.

If you didn't have choice, what would be the point of life?



The problem with your analogy to glasses is that, (At least in the U.S.) by wearing glasses, you don't become a second class citizen. There are over 1(,)(.)049 rights that gay couples are not afforded simply because they don't like the opposite sex. I am gay. And firsthand information is extremely valuable. So here it is: I did not choose.

Where you DO have some accuracy is the bit where you mentioned genes. There's our genes, which determine things from birth; and then there's epigentics. This is the part where our environment affects our genes. Both are GENETIC. This means, that if being gay is influenced by these things, then being gay is GENETIC, therefore, NOT a choice.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

But even after genetics and epigentics have played their role, you still have the freedom to choose how you live. Nothing can ever take away your agency. Whether you believe it or not, you have the power, freedom, and gift of choice. Use it how you want to.

[billia]

But even after genetics and epigentics have played their role, you still have the freedom to choose how you live. Nothing can ever take away your agency. Whether you believe it or not, you have the power, freedom, and gift of choice. Use it how you want to.

Gays can choose to live heterosexual lifestyles. But that doesn not make them straight.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Thank you for seeing the point I was trying to make. You still choose what you do. Maybe you don't have full control over your sexuality, but you still have the ability to choose in your life. Thank you for understanding my point.

[paterico]

Thank you for seeing the point I was trying to make. You still choose what you do. Maybe you don't have full control over your sexuality, but you still have the ability to choose in your life. Thank you for understanding my point.

But why should someone have to live behind a lie? What's the point?

[LatinaVivit]

Let me answer your question with a question.

Do you enjoy being gay? Do you love someone of your own sex? Do you like being the way you are?

If you say yes, then THAT is why you would choose to be gay. Because YOU love it. Because that's the way YOU enjoy to be. Not because any one is making you or because you have no other choice. But because YOU want to.

If you say no, well then why do something you don't enjoy? Don't believe you have no control. Fight for what you want no matter how hard it may seem. That's what Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. and all those great people did. They changed things. It wasn't easy, but they did it. The people fighting to cure cancer probably aren't going to get it for a while, but they keep on trying because they want to change things. If you have the desire, you can change things. You have the power to do great things.

I didn't choose to be straight. I developed feelings for the opposite gender sometime in elementary. I just grew up that way. I don't think it was anything in my DNA telling me to like this girl. It just happened that way. I'm sure that's how it works with gays as well. You develop feelings for the same gender. Bi people develop feelings for both genders. It happens in your development. But even after development you can still change. Sexuality is no exception. Plenty of people have gone from being straight to being gay and vice versa. There is always choice to do what you want and be who you want to be. You are the decider.

1. There's a difference between liking something, and having pride.

2. Your argument really doesn't make much sense. Yeah, we make love doing things with the same gender, but why would that make it a choice? You said you didn't chose to be straight; it was something you couldn't help. If that's the case WHY WOULD WE CHOOSE TO BE GAY AND TREATED LIKE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS?!?!

3. In your third stanza, you're making a point as if we're being forced to do something from a higher power; you compare us naturally being gay with Rosa Parks. Yes, we can't help it that we're gay, just like they can't help it that they're black. Is your point saying that we should fight to be straight? That doesn't make any sense at all!

4. Do you know anything about biology? No? Okay, I'll illuminate you. DNA is the blueprint for everything in the body. EVERYTHING. Including the hypothalamus - the part of the brain that controls libido, hormones, etc - and many other parts of the brain. If you're sane, you cannot assume that in the 1000 trillion connections of the brain, something may be different in gay people than in straight people which makes them gay.

5. Maybe people have been confused, but many psychiatric organizations have agreed that it IS NOT possible for one to change their sexuality; moreover, if one attempts to do so by means of prayer, denial, electroshock, etc, they can be permanently scarred for life from trauma.

You need to look at this in a logical way, and maybe get some inside knowledge from those whom you're criticizing. If you start having an opinion about something which you have no knowledge of, then why even have one....you don't know anything about it!

[MemoriesLost]

I fully believe it's natural. I've been asking, and I'm the only one in my family on both sides who is attracted to the opposite sex. Can't be genetic. Also, a disorder? That seems like a rather far-fetched idea.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

You are completely missing the point of what I'm saying.

Ok. Here is my final saying to express my point:

Freedom of choice to live as you desire. Be who you want to be. Become what you want to become. Go where you want to go. Do as you want to do. Choose what you want because that is what life is. Making choices and living how you want to live.

[LatinaVivit]

You are completely missing the point of what I'm saying.

Ok. Here is my final saying to express my point:

Freedom of choice to live as you desire. Be who you want to be. Become what you want to become. Go where you want to go. Do as you want to do. Choose what you want because that is what life is. Making choices and living how you want to live.

Why didn't you just say that? Before you said homosexuality is a choice. Being out and proud is; actually being gay is not.

[UnknownBoi98]

I Believe That It Is

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I still beleive it is a choice, but so is everything else you do in your life. Live as you want to live. That's it.

[billia]

I still beleive it is a choice, but so is everything else you do in your life. Live as you want to live. That's it.

Now you're just contradicting yourself... You're argument has become entirely invalid.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I've been saying the same thing the entire time. Choice. Live like you want to because you have the ability to choose.

[PleasureMe7777]

For people who are Bi sexual or Gay or anything thats not straight, some people look at Us like we r freaks or Not Normal but None of use who have feelings toward the same sex can control those feelings. We were all born this/that way.

[Slashpoint001]

of coarse its natural!! I mean, you where born naturally right? Humans are natural, we are just a little bit smarter then other animals (although im starting to question this towards some people) HAHA. But homosexuality is just a trait that you are born with, its not a disease, its not a defect, and it most certainly isn't something you can control. I just recommend that you embrace the fact that you ARE gay or bi or lesbian. You are different, and you are special.

[Lovely637]

yeah.. it is sometimes hereditary.