Obamacare?

[Killsantoni]

Surprised I haven't seen this yet, but what's your opinion. Obama said it wasn't going to be a tax, it is a tax. More so, if an employee can't pay for healthcare with 8% of their income, their employer pays for it. Most people work for small business' and this will kill profit, and eventually business. So I'm against it.

[huginnmuninn]

i wouldn't mind it nearly as much if our economy wasn't completely screwed up right now. i think its gonna hurt more people than help them by causing more economic distress for more people.

[Outside The Box]

Another step closer to fascism, then again the playing field was never really fair to begin with for most people. We never had true capitalism either ..We have more of a crony capitalism.

[Professional Russian]

Obamacare it useless/worthless. my theory is if you cant get a job to pay your bills or other things you get nothing

[Neverender]

Another step closer to fascism, then again the playing field was never really fair to begin with for most people. We never had true capitalism either ..We have more of a crony capitalism.

>Another step closer to fascism
>fascism
>FASCISM

Are you retarded? Fascism is on the opposite end of the scale from Universal Healthcare. Fascism is Extreme right, same side with the Republicans.

Don't dare open your mouth about politics without actually knowing what you're talking about. That ruins political discussions. That is what most of the population of the United States seems to do and no wonder the Far Right is so damn radical there. They brood unreal ideas by villainizng Obama and using incorrect definitions. Fascism? They don't even know what that means.


anyways
I think the Obamacare plan could have been better thought out, but Canadian-style health care would never pass in the United States, so the are forced to do this shitty Capitalist-style Insurance Reform. I'd love to see it work though.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

I think the Obamacare plan could have been better thought out, but Canadian-style health care would never pass in the United States, so the are forced to do this shitty Capitalist-style Insurance Reform. I'd love to see it work though.

I wish we had a Canada-like policy, but since that will never happen in this fucked up country, then Obamacare is about as good as it gets. So yeah, I agree. It is a good idea and could benefit us a lot if we actually put it into effect.

[Killsantoni]

I wish we had a Canada-like policy, but since that will never happen in this fucked up country, then Obamacare is about as good as it gets. So yeah, I agree. It is a good idea and could benefit us a lot if we actually put it into effect.

Did you not just read the beginning post, it will destroy the economy.

[Neverender]

Did you not just read the beginning post, it will destroy the economy.

You provided no more evidence than he did. Your post is just as irrelevant to us.

also,

>Implying the economy isn't already destroyed

[Killsantoni]

You provided no more evidence than he did. Your post is just as irrelevant to us.

also,

>Implying the economy isn't already destroyed

No, you're just too ignorant to accept what I'm saying. If it weren't for the fact the economy's already in the shitter, it would be destroyed, now we're just fucked.

[Neverender]

No, you're just too ignorant to accept what I'm saying. If it weren't for the fact the economy's already in the shitter, it would be destroyed, now we're just fucked.

It didn't fuck Canada in the 1960s. It hasn't fucked Europe. Why would it fuck the United States?

Compare buying health insurance to Paying Income Taxes.

[Killsantoni]

It didn't fuck Canada in the 1960s. It hasn't fucked Europe. Why would it fuck the United States?

Compare buying health insurance to Paying Income Taxes.

Ok, why should we pay for a bums health care, through their employer. Honestly, $200,000 a year, that takes a lot away from a small buisness, and why should they pay for it. And Obama specifically said it wouldn't bea tax, guess what, it is a tax. Why should we trust Obama anymore than we do now, because it would always come back to the middle class to pay for it. Employers and tax payers are now paying for healthcare, why, because most of those dumb ficks who don't have healthcare are too lazy, and of they're too lazy to get it, why should we, the people, pay for it. Tell me that.

[Amnesiac]

Ok, why should we pay for a bums health care, through their employer. Honestly, $200,000 a year, that takes a lot away from a small buisness, and why should they pay for it.

Because it's not that simple. I'm skeptical of the healthcare bill as well, but your justification for being against it is just completely flawed. This isn't about "paying for a bum's healthcare," the rising cost of insurance and the disturbing number of Americans who go without it is a serious problem. "Obamacare" is, in my opinion, a flawed method for fixing this mess, because it penalizes Americans for refusing to buy private health insurance. But don't just assume that people who don't buy healthcare are just "lazy". That's inane and completely false.

And Obama specifically said it wouldn't bea tax, guess what, it is a tax.

Technically. It's only a tax if you don't have health insurance by 2014.

Why should we trust Obama anymore than we do now, because it would always come back to the middle class to pay for it. Employers and tax payers are now paying for healthcare, why, because most of those dumb ficks who don't have healthcare are too lazy, and of they're too lazy to get it, why should we, the people, pay for it. Tell me that.

Why can't you understand that there are people who actually can't afford health insurance? So everybody who's poorer than you is just a "dumb fick" who's "too lazy" to buy it? That's absolutely ridiculous. The lack of proper health coverage in the United States is an extremely serious issue, yet you try and play it down as if the people who have had the unfortunate experience of being put in the position where they can't pay for healthcare somehow deserve it for "being lazy". You're just spewing the typical uninformed conservative bullshit that people are just "too lazy" to get healthcare. That's a blatant lie. There are millions of people who have had their lives destroyed due to the inability to pay for healthcare, and you're looking down on them because you've been fooled into thinking they're all just poor dumbasses who deserve it.

[Killsantoni]

Because it's not that simple. I'm skeptical of the healthcare bill as well, but your justification for being against it is just completely flawed. This isn't about "paying for a bum's healthcare," the rising cost of insurance and the disturbing number of Americans who go without it is a serious problem. "Obamacare" is, in my opinion, a flawed method for fixing this mess, because it penalizes Americans for refusing to buy private health insurance. But don't just assume that people who don't buy healthcare are just "lazy". That's inane and completely false.



Technically. It's only a tax if you don't have health insurance by 2014.



Why can't you understand that there are people who actually can't afford health insurance? So everybody who's poorer than you is just a "dumb fick" who's "too lazy" to buy it? That's absolutely ridiculous. The lack of proper health coverage in the United States is an extremely serious issue, yet you try and play it down as if the people who have had the unfortunate experience of being put in the position where they can't pay for healthcare somehow deserve it for "being lazy". You're just spewing the typical uninformed conservative bullshit that people are just "too lazy" to get healthcare. That's a blatant lie. There are millions of people who have had their lives destroyed due to the inability to pay for healthcare, and you're looking down on them because you've been fooled into thinking they're all just poor dumbasses who deserve it.

Oh my god, I said most, and out of those most, people on welfare who can't be bothered to get a job because the government pays them. That's who I was talking about dumbass. They live on and take advantage of the government, living on them, and in the end, cant afford health insurance. I have no sympathy for those people. Others, I have sympathy for, and yes, I know I could've worded that better, but I don't care, because I know my opinion, and I'm gonna back it up all the way. By the way, I'm very informed on this matter. Don't go around saying I've been lied to, because I haven't. I didn't only listen to rush, I also listened to the very liberal medias point of view, and read some parts of the bill. No, I didn't listen to fox news, before any of you ask. Before you go saying I'm an improperly informed dumbfuck conservative, actually ask first, don't make assumptions. Another thing, I'm proud to be conservative.

[Incompris]

i wouldn't mind it nearly as much if our economy wasn't completely screwed up right now. i think its gonna hurt more people than help them by causing more economic distress for more people.
I agree maybe it would be better if we introduced it at a later date when the economy isn't so screwed up.

[Killsantoni]

I agree maybe it would be better if we introduced it at a later date when the economy isn't so screwed up.

Isn't this what I've been trying to say.

[Incompris]

Isn't this what I've been trying to say.
Maybe I kind off got lost in your posts, no offence I get lost very easily. but I guess

[Bougainvillea]

Obamacare it useless/worthless. my theory is if you cant get a job to pay your bills or other things you get nothing

Says someone who's never paid a bill in their life.

I honestly love the idea of it. Cathy's parents's insurance is going to cover her until she's like 26.

Before you go saying I'm an improperly informed dumbfuck conservative, actually ask first, don't make assumptions. Another thing, I'm proud to be conservative.

He doesn't need to ask, because you're already proving it by all the stupid shit you say. And why would he ask that? Of course you're going to deny it. Stupid people don't know that they're stupid.


I still don't see why people can't just be willing to do something that''s going to benefit us. Its meant to help people. What is so wrong with that? I'd rather pay a little extra money, and have it benefit me in the future, instead of calling everyone dumbasses, being selfish, and trying to pinch a penny when its going to go right down the drain.

Oh my god, I said most, and out of those most, people on welfare who can't be bothered to get a job because the government pays them. That's who I was talking about dumbass. They live on and take advantage of the government, living on them, and in the end, cant afford health insurance.

I've worked in two different hospitals since I've graduated from high school, and I assure you. About 98% of people who I have had the chance to meet that are on welfare desperately need it, and just about all of those people were pretty ashamed to admit it.

Healthcare is fucking expensive. I doubt you've ever had to pay a hospital bill, or even an insurance bill in your life seeing that your occupation is "school". Literally, I have seen someone come into the facility I worked in for one week, and left with a $85,000 bill. So fuck you. And keep your god damn mouth shut about things you have no experience with whatsoever.

You're the one saying he's making wrongful implications, when you literally just categorized and degraded a large part of this country's population.

Also, why the fuck would you even debate about people needing healthcare? How in the world can you justify not giving someone health care simply because they can't afford it?

[Amnesiac]

Oh my god, I said most, and out of those most, people on welfare who can't be bothered to get a job because the government pays them. That's who I was talking about dumbass.

Most? No. You have no evidence to back up such a generalization about an enormous group of people besides the same rhetoric that I've heard a million times about "welfare junkies".

In 2005, the Department estimated that 3.8% of the American population could be considered dependent on welfare, calculated as having more than half of their family’s income coming from TANF, food stamps, and/or SSRI payments, down from 5.2% in 1996. As 15.3% of the population was in receipt of welfare benefits in 2005, it follows that approximately one-quarter of welfare recipients are considered dependent as per the official measures.

These statistics from the Department of Health and Human Services show that a minority of welfare recipients are dependent on welfare as their primary source of income. Is 3.8% still a large number of people? Sure, but this isn't even a measurement of their incentive to work. Show me a statistic that links a lack of incentive to work and welfare reliance, and I'll consider your argument.

They live on and take advantage of the government, living on them, and in the end, cant afford health insurance. I have no sympathy for those people.

But are these people even a significant minority? The fact is that most people without health insurance can't afford it due to rising costs and economic troubles. Most people who use welfare are honest citizens who need assistance. Besides, one of the problems with the welfare system is that people are forced into relying on it. I don't see people stuck on welfare as evil, but rather as victims, because they've been coerced into tagging onto a flawed government system that doesn't provide enough incentive to work.

I'm not a fan of the welfare system either. However, it's simply ignorant to disregard the reason it exists: because there are many, many people in this country who are unable to afford basic commodities and services, and who would be nowhere without financial assistance from the government. You can push the welfare queen stereotype as much as you want, just as countless "small-government" conservative crusaders have since the days of Reagan, but in the end it's an unrealistic portrayal of welfare recipients that has little statistical backing.

Others, I have sympathy for, and yes, I know I could've worded that better, but I don't care, because I know my opinion, and I'm gonna back it up all the way. By the way, I'm very informed on this matter. Don't go around saying I've been lied to, because I haven't. I didn't only listen to rush, I also listened to the very liberal medias point of view, and read some parts of the bill. No, I didn't listen to fox news, before any of you ask. Before you go saying I'm an improperly informed dumbfuck conservative, actually ask first, don't make assumptions. Another thing, I'm proud to be conservative.

Okay, that's great. But why be "proud" to be a conservative? I don't think anybody should be proud of their political positions. That just encourages close-mindedness and egotistical thinking. An opinion is never absolute. You should always be criticizing your opinions, always analyzing where you stand and what you believe in. I'm not "proud" to be libertarian. It's just the political position I've just happened to be aligned near. It's not something I follow.

If you reread my last post I never resorted to ad hominem attacks against you and I made no assumptions. No need to have your jimmies rustled.

[Neverender]

Oh my god, I said most, and out of those most, people on welfare who can't be bothered to get a job because the government pays them. That's who I was talking about dumbass. They live on and take advantage of the government, living on them, and in the end, cant afford health insurance. I have no sympathy for those people. Others, I have sympathy for, and yes, I know I could've worded that better, but I don't care, because I know my opinion, and I'm gonna back it up all the way. By the way, I'm very informed on this matter. Don't go around saying I've been lied to, because I haven't. I didn't only listen to rush, I also listened to the very liberal medias point of view, and read some parts of the bill. No, I didn't listen to fox news, before any of you ask. Before you go saying I'm an improperly informed dumbfuck conservative, actually ask first, don't make assumptions. Another thing, I'm proud to be conservative.

You're already saying the Economy is horrible, but then you expect them to find jobs at the drop of a hat. Yes, some on Welfare will not search for a job, that happens in every country and every population. That is irrelevent when The vast majority of people on Welfare desparately need it. I'm sorry that you live in America and that you might be able to fork over $100,000 and get a new heart by next week (for 110k they'll toss in a kidney), but not everyone can afford to pay these egregious amounts for healthcare. Fuck, not everyone can afford to pay for health insurance either, and you go out of your way to insult these innocent people and give them lower priority in society.


Not to mention trying to get Health insurance while you die of a terminal illness (Like my Lymphoma, for example) is nearly impossible in the United States. Now Insurance companies will HAVE to accept anyone who applies. Since you don't have a solid National Medical Care Plan like Canada or Sweden, this is your best bet.

Besides, they're breaking up Monopoly and encouraging capitalism. As a Conservative this should be giving you a raging erection.

>I'm very informed on this matter.
This part made me chuckle.

[huginnmuninn]

i don't think that the gov't should have the power to be able to force everyone to buy something. it just seems wrong to me. and public hospitals cant turn away patients so i don't see why it's important for people to get health insurance. sure if you don't have it you might have some financial troubles but you'll be treated for your problems

[Neverender]

i don't think that the gov't should have the power to be able to force everyone to buy something. it just seems wrong to me. and public hospitals cant turn away patients so i don't see why it's important for people to get health insurance. sure if you don't have it you might have some financial troubles but you'll be treated for your problems

They can't force you to buy it, but they can tax you if you don't. So you may as well.

Also,
and public hospitals cant turn away patients so i don't see why it's important for people to get health insurance.

THis is the stupidest thing in your comment. Why is it so important to have health insurance? Because if I didn't live in Canada my Cancer treatments would cost me $16,000 per dose. Do you seriously think people can afford these obscene prices without insurance?

[huginnmuninn]

They can't force you to buy it, but they can tax you if you don't. So you may as well.

they shouldn't be able to tell you what to buy


THis is the stupidest thing in your comment. Why is it so important to have health insurance? Because if I didn't live in Canada my Cancer treatments would cost me $16,000 per dose. Do you seriously think people can afford these obscene prices without insurance?

the way i said that was wrong let me try again.

public hospitals cant turn you away and will treat you so why should the gov't tell the people to buy health care when the problems are going to be treated anyway. yes, without health insurance the treatment may not be the best but it will be treated so that you arent in immediate danger.

[Neverender]

public hospitals cant turn you away and will treat you so why should the gov't tell the people to buy health care when the problems are going to be treated anyway. yes, without health insurance the treatment may not be the best but it will be treated so that you arent in immediate danger.

With bills that hospitals can rack up and what that can do to someone for the rest of their life, they would have been better off left to perish.

[wild1]

Every other industrial country has some type of universal health insurance. It can't be that they are all stupid and the USA is the only smart one not to have it. Social Security and Medicare were also strongly opposed by conservative forces (Republicans) before they became laws but are now widely supported by a big majority of the US population. If universal healthcare is so against American values then why not just eliminate all government healthcare for everyone including Medicare. Older people should be on their own, right? While we're at it, we might as well drop school lunch programs and every other type of social spending. Why should we pay for food for hungry people? We didn't make them hungry. Every dollar of taxes should be for defense spending and nothing else.

Communism and socialism are wrong and do not work. But some level of government involvement to insure the common good is morally correct. The idea of common good is in the preamble of the US Constitution. We should be in some limited way "our brother's keepers". Countries who make this credo part of their national life have more social unity. Ask people in Sweden or Norway if they prefer their approach or that of America. There is a selfishness among many Americans. It's unworthy of a great people.

[tHe_Jester1080]

It's typical Obama. He's lying about the tax, forcing alot of Americans to do what he wants them to do, screwing the American buisnesess, and kissing the banks and insurance agencies asses.

[derpderp]

Obamacare is simply a Capitalist system trying to implement pro-human services, since Capitalism cannot provide for all human-life of course this messed-up idea will not work. I'm a Socialist and I'd rather pay for my healthcare than have the prices driven up by Capitalism disguised as crony Socialism...

[Sudds3]

The one thing that gets me is that the bill was i don't know how many pages long, but no one person had read the entire thing, yet they were voting on it.....seems kinda sketchy

[derpderp]

The one thing that gets me is that the bill was i don't know how many pages long, but no one person had read the entire thing, yet they were voting on it.....seems kinda sketchy

Congress logic...that's a congressional tactic though, write a 500 page book on a one word subject then pass it because you're too lazy to read it...

[chrisawesome]

Like I said in another post, there is proof that Obama care will hurt insurance companies by the sudden impact in befeficiaries. So there will be an increase in annual tax. CONTRADICTING WHAT OBAMA TOLD US IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Now the people who voted for him that are struggling paycheck to paycheck will have to pay more. They are the ones who will be slapped in the face with it.

I would like to go on about many things such as raising the wealthy peoples taxes, business or what I like to call Chinese owning our companies, legal abortion, and deficit to China. By the way, I have an idea: how about we raise a tax on businesses that ship products over seas to be made and tax them when they import them back into the U.S. that will only hurt our companies only if they continue to hire foreign citizens to build their products. In return that will give U.S. companies and employees better jobs, more, jobs, and there wouldnt be a need for that stupid Obama Care.

p.s. I also support cutting funding for Sesamie Street because it is Chinese supported. The point is ]America First[/B] I know that it is edcational and all that but, don't you think America can do that too!!

Vote Me, a successful businessman, for president
And by the way, I support pro-business, Pro-life, immediate deportation of illegal immigrants, legalization of immigrants who go through the process legally, and pro-same/opposite sex marrige!

[Mirage]

Please don't bump threads that are two months old or older.

:locked: