Do gays go to Heaven or Hell?

[purpleninjacookie]

Well I myself personally think that gays will go to heaven,but before I explain why, lets see why this idea or subject is so debatable.As the years go on....more and more teens are becoming gay....and if they are brought up in a religious family, most will be taught that be attracted or having feelings for the same sex is wrong and its a horrible sin....and that God hates gays, lesbians, or even bisexual people....when a teen feels the need to "come out " they have the tendacy of feeling ashamed in themselves because of what their parents have told them about homosexuality.....some of these events lead to suicide due to pressure and disappointment and even the feeling of being unwanted or not loved....now there are many places in the Bible where it States that a man sleeping with another man is wrong (sorry I would put a quote but I'm not about to look through a 900 paged book) And there is another part in the Bible that says when a women sleeps with another man...she is brought to her father and is stoned to death....now I'm pretty sure people aren't going to be doing that today....Overall, I'm saying that yes a Bible does state that about homoelsexuality....but as the years go on and people develope....the Bible becomes more and more out dated and just isn't fitting into today's society...I have recently went to a church session and even the pastor said not to interpret the Bible from word to word....when the Bible was frost written...people didn't know how to cleanly explain what they meant so they would often say things that might relate to what they mean.....by stoning to death...did they mean be punished?
I personally think gays go to heaven because it seems that God loves everyone and no matter what their sin is....he will love you...if God can except murderers,rapist, and drug atticts into heaven....why cant he except gays? There are countless of people that state that they have been having feelings for the same sex since they were young...and yes I have been having feelings for guys since I was like 5...now this also brings up a new question....can you be born gay? Well if your can be born with a birth defect....then why cant you be born gay?
All I want to out out there...is if your gay and if your religion is holding you back from "coming out " then you have to know that avid loves you no matter if your gay, lesbian, or bisexual....I really hoped this helped people...I really put a lot of thought into this :)

[Lyra Heartstrings]

I, personally, don't think God gives a fuck if you're gay. If you made wrong decisions, you are burning in Hell. Simple as that.

[Sephtyan]

First off, I need to preface that I don't believe that a definitive "Heaven" or "hell" exists.

I have heard others say that the wonderous man named Jesus told people he met to "Love all other humans as though they were your brother". This would commonly be followed by one of the people paying attention asking "What if they're gay?" prompting Jesus to yell "DID I FUCKING STUTTER?".
I have also heard it said that if we were created in God's own image that it must be natural for some of us to be gay, and that the reason for the recent skyrocket in the number of gay people has been due to our hesitation in trusting His judgement.
I have ALSO heard that Jesus commonly said to "be true to yourself". If one loves men, then denying what one loves would just be complete deception to everyone around you, as well as to yourself. [Then again, that last part I heard from the all-knowing internet, and you know the validity of internetted quotes. "The thing about the internet is that no one can prove the truth" —Abraham Lincoln.]

All in all, I'd say: If you love a person, focus not on their body, focus on their soul.

[Electra Heart]

Well, I don't believe in Heaven or Hell so... That was easy :P

[Thunduhbuhlt]

Heaven. Simple as that. Want an explanation, watch "Prayers for Bobby" on youtube. That will explain it well.

[Sugaree]

Jesus Christ, this thread is going to be the epitome of shit storms.

[Hatsune Miku]

Neither. You get buried in the hole and rot.

On the good side, your rotting body provides food and a home for many insects.

[Light Warrior 7]

God loves EVERYONE.. He's our saviour. You're safe as long as yoU accept him ^_^

[Sugaree]

God loves EVERYONE.. He's our saviour. You're safe as long as yoU accept him ^_^

So, wait...God loves everyone, but he only saves those who accept him? Isn't that sorta, y'know, a contradiction?

[Abigballofdust]

Neither. You get buried in the hole and rot.

On the good side, your rotting body provides food and a home for many insects.

I'm gonna get burned to ashes tho. Maybe I can serve to wash clothes.

Anyways, we live a life of barely 70 summers, hardly more and most probably less.
There's no reason, in such a short existence, for me to fear an afterlife (given such thing exists - which I wouldn't want because the simple concept of immortality bores me to death, no pun intended) of damnation and pain for the simple fact I like my own sex.
I do nothing bad to anybody and live a peaceful life enjoying the moment. What's sinful in this?
If, however, all sins are equal before God, then this so called wisdom-full creature that's righteous and just is nothing more than simple humans, or even more hypocrite given the fame he's got from sacred texts.

[Professional Russian]

God loves EVERYONE.. He's our saviour. You're safe as long as yoU accept him ^_^

What The Fuck Did I Just Read?

[ImCoolBeans]

What The Fuck Did I Just Read?

You're in no position to judge here, dude.


I don't really believe in heaven/hell, so I'll go with neither. I don't disbelieve in religion because I'm gay and it's such a grey/messy area, so don't take this as a radical, biased point of view, but I think it's all a little ridiculous.

[purpleninjacookie]

You're in no position to judge here, dude.


I don't really believe in heaven/hell, so I'll go with neither. I don't disbelieve in religion because I'm gay and it's such a grey/messy area, so don't take this as a radical, biased point of view, but I think it's all a little ridiculous.

Well your saying your not religious because your gay....now why cant gays be religious?

[Abigballofdust]

Well your saying your not religious because your gay....now why cant gays be religious?

How can you believe in something that openly says you're wrong and unnatural?

[Clawhammer]

I think that the options are just as wide for gay people as for straight people. Nobody is in a better standing with God than anyone else. It's a grace deal, we can do nothing good before God on our own, and we are naturally sinful beings. We as straight people are no less sinful as gay people, since we have all fallen short of God's standards.

[ImCoolBeans]

Well your saying your not religious because your gay....now why cant gays be religious?

If you read a little more carefully you'll see that it reads "I don't disbelieve in religion because I'm gay." Nowhere in there does it say that my homosexuality is the reason that I don't practice religion or have faith. In fact, I directly say that my homosexuality is not the reason why I disbelieve.

[OregonStateDude]

If Heaven exists, then I'm gonna get there. God made me gay for a reason and God doesn't make mistakes. :)

[Amaryllis]

They decompose like the rest of us.

[Jess]

Neither.

like all humans, they'll cease to exist.

[Cognizant]

Nope, and since quantum physics make no sense to me, I'm going with that they cease to exist, as the same with heterosexuals, bisexuals, lesbians, transgenders, asexuals, and any other sexuality out there.

[Gordo]

I just wrote this in another thread, but it's applicable here as well.

I'm very, very sure god never, ever stated that same sex couples are going to hell or anything even remotely close to that. Maybe you aren't talking about Christians believe, but if you are, then you're way off.

Christianity and whether you go to hell or not isn't based on your performance, it's based on your relationship with Jesus Christ. If you know Jesus, you're fine. If you ignore him, he'll ignore you in the next life. It's not that big of a deal, really. If you live this whole life ignoring him, why would you suddenly want to be with him when you're dead? Or Him with you?

Man I gotta blog about this, it seems like basic principles of Christianity are being completely ignored.

Just something to think about. There are many, many murderers in heaven because while being incarcerated they came to know Christ.


To the OP, you're kinda close to understanding what was written in the bible and way ahead of millions of people. Also, Christ himself will be our judge and jury at the white throne judgement, not God. That's why the "system" is completely fair. Come to know Christ in this life, be with him in the next life. Period.

You may want to ask your pastor about the "arc" (or the very high level story lines of the bible). Yet again I'm thinkin' I really need to take the time and blog or post more about this in a way that really explains what the deal is because it's pretty simple actually.



You're in no position to judge here, dude.


I don't really believe in heaven/hell, so I'll go with neither. I don't disbelieve in religion because I'm gay and it's such a grey/messy area, so don't take this as a radical, biased point of view, but I think it's all a little ridiculous.

Actually you are very, very close to the Truth.

Believe it or not, but it is true, God hates religion. You not liking religion is actually a good thing. Also, Jesus wasn't a big fan either. Go figure!?

God and Jesus want one thing, to know you. They don't care if you ever go to church again, they want you. The reason they hate religion (and they don't hate much actually) is because religion is likely to get in the way of them knowing you. They don't get to know you by praying the same prayer every week with a group of people. I'm guessing on the next part: I think they don't like it because you could have been spending time with them, instead you were in church doing what a bunch of people told you, you should be doing.

A way better of praying is to be real with Jesus when you "pray". Like hey jesus, ya know what? I'm pretty pissed off that I'm gay! Oh and I blame you! How about them apples? I got one for ya Jesus, how about you show me, in your time, when you think it's appropriate, why I'm gay.

And as long as we're on the topic Jesus, how about you make some stuff just a little easier for me in some way? Or make it so I'm comfortable in my own skin and not wishing to be straight? How about helping me be more at peace in general? Instead I'm pissed off at you and the people who hate on gays. Give ME some peace or guide my life so I have some or more, because I know you didn't put me here to have me be miserable."

That kind of praying, anger and honesty is what they want. Your passion, your problems etc. Not memorized prayers religiously recited in a religious way. Jesus is about relationship. That's why God sent his son and not a big rock or monolyth or something else.

As usual I ended up in a ramble. I need to work on that. Just ask Liveoak or Biscuithead13. I babble sometimes.



double posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

[User Deleted]

Well, from my personal view... neither, there is no God, there is no savior ect.

From a mythological point of view it varied from religion to church to person even, so all in all it depends, look at the lass beliefs of your religion, the sub-beliefs, then decide if you agree with your church or not. It's really your choice to believe what you want... As long as you don't force it on others.

Also, many religions and churches say no, many individuals (fewer than the mass but large compared to other variations) say yes. Like I said... It's up to you, but the mass will say no. More specifically they say they gay people can be saved from it but is constant sin to remain homosexual so the only way to constantly purge is stop being gay then ask for forgiveness.

[Devonb97]

Well in the bible it says to beat women and children... In the bible it also says to stone gays.. I honestly don't believe in the bible.. I don't see how you can worship a man but don't fully go with everything he says..

[risener]

Religion is a touchy subject for a lot of people, but I believe it doesn't matter if you are. Here's a verse that convinced me this way and is VERY important: Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1st Corinthians 9-12)

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1st corinthians 5: 9-12
so it has no matter

posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

[Telkanis]

If you believe every word of the bible you are a moron. It was written by man thousands of years ago not by god. Not saying god didn't help a little but it is still something that was written bynanbunch of old dudes. According to the bible you can own slaves and have to stone adulterers. Imagine how many politicians and sports idols we'd have to stone. Anyway, I'm not sure what I think about the existence of god but according to my understanding of new testament everyone is going to be saved by the love of god.

[Jean Poutine]

Nice of you to compare homosexuality to a birth defect.

[OregonStateDude]

A better way of praying is to be real with Jesus when you "pray". Like hey Jesus, ya know what? I'm pretty pissed off that I'm gay! Oh and I blame you! How about them apples? I got one for ya Jesus, how about you show me, in your time, when you think it's appropriate, why I'm gay.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not pissed off that I turned out gay. And I certainly don't blame Jesus. I actually don't blame anyone; what would be the point? This is the hand I was dealt, so I can either accept it or be miserable. To be honest, being miserable doesn't sound like too much fun.

[RelicHunter97]

Yeah, uhm, you see, you die, and then the process of decompostion occurs and the cycle of nutrients takes place and you become parts of many things. Simple as that.

[Thunderstorm]

It honestly shouldn't matter. This question shouldnt need to be asked. If they go to hell, it's because of soething they did, and it doesn't necessarily mean that bad thing is choosing to e Gay.

[Sugaree]

It honestly shouldn't matter. This question shouldnt need to be asked. If they go to hell, it's because of soething they did, and it doesn't necessarily mean that bad thing is choosing to e Gay.

Choosing to be gay?

[insanity]

Neither. You get buried in the hole and rot.

On the good side, your rotting body provides food and a home for many insects.

My thoughts exactly.

[Abyssal Echo]

I think that the options are just as wide for gay people as for straight people. Nobody is in a better standing with God than anyone else. It's a grace deal, we can do nothing good before God on our own, and we are naturally sinful beings. We as straight people are no less sinful as gay people, since we have all fallen short of God's standards.

yup you're so right :)

[frankie97]

Oh Religion thou art a heartless bitch.

[Cicero]

In Christianity, the belief is that if you do not accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you go to hell, doesn't matter if your a killer, gay, a rapist, a thief, doesn't matter. Here's where I believe the debate really is, can you be Christian and gay? As a true believer in Christ, you would be disgusted in sin. You should want to stay away from sin as much as possible. Everyone makes, mistakes so god wants you to repent from those sins. In the bible, several verses specifically say that homosexuals will not inherent the kingdom of God. The bible says being a homosexual is a sin, if it is a son, God wants you to repent from that sin. The goal of Christianity is to lead other through Christ, not through intimidation of hell, but through kindness. The other goal of Christianity is to be Christ like. Be as much like him as you possibly can. According the Christianity, homosexuals will not go to heaven. According to Buddhists and Hindus, they will. But if your not already a Christian, why worry about something that cannot be proven?

Oh, and the bible was written by over 30 different men, who God spoke to. In the bible, it is believed you choose to be gay, same thing as choosing to drink if your an alcoholic. The bible ALSO doesn't say to beat women and children, it never once says that. It says to spank our children if their disrespectful, you might be mixing your views up with the Muslim faith, women are sometimes beaten.


Here is a verse in the bible:


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

[Blank]

Homosexuality is no better or worse than any other sin. We are all sinners and deserve eternal punishment in hell. God will forgive all who humble themselves and come to Jesus Christ who died for us. We also have to repent. The bible says somewhere 'repent for the kingdom of God is at hand' and when people wanted to stone the woman He told her that He doesn't condemn her, and sent her away telling her to sin no more.

We tend to cling on to our sins because we have gotten accustomed to them. They provide a false feeling of satisfaction, but in the bible it talks about drinking from broken cisterns and drinking from Christ who is the fountain of living water. Whoever drinks of this water will not thirst.

God loves every single one of you very, very much. He's telling you to stop drinking muddy polluted water that will one day kill you and drink from Him who gives eternal life. He wants to heal you, protect you, comfort you. He wants to have the most intimate relationship with you. God is not a bunch of people who tell everyone that they're going to hell, God is not trying to shove 'religion' down your throats. God is our Father, our Creator, our Abba. I'm not sure but I think Jesus said that those who love Him are His mother, brother and sister. We are family and children of God, come to Him, He is calling out to you now because He loves you that much.

[Cicero]

Homosexuality is no better or worse than any other sin. We are all sinners and deserve eternal punishment in hell. God will forgive all who humble themselves and come to Jesus Christ who died for us. We also have to repent. The bible says somewhere 'repent for the kingdom of God is at hand' and when people wanted to stone the woman He told her that He doesn't condemn her, and sent her away telling her to sin no more.

We tend to cling on to our sins because we have gotten accustomed to them. They provide a false feeling of satisfaction, but in the bible it talks about drinking from broken cisterns and drinking from Christ who is the fountain of living water. Whoever drinks of this water will not thirst.

God loves every single one of you very, very much. He's telling you to stop drinking muddy polluted water that will one day kill you and drink from Him who gives eternal life. He wants to heal you, protect you, comfort you. He wants to have the most intimate relationship with you. God is not a bunch of people who tell everyone that they're going to hell, God is not trying to shove 'religion' down your throats. God is our Father, our Creator, our Abba. I'm not sure but I think Jesus said that those who love Him are His mother, brother and sister. We are family and children of God, come to Him, He is calling out to you now because He loves you that much.

No one is Jesus' mother, other than Mother Mary. Also, no one is Jesus' brother or sister. In Christianity, you and another Christian are brothers/sisters. If your a guy, and a Christian, and your Mass friend is a girl, and Christian. Then you two are a brother and sister in Christ. Not a brother and sister of Christ. Oh, and one more thing, your only a brother and sister in Christ if you repented of your sins and have accepted Jesus in your heart. But you have to be willing to repent...

[Blank]

Matthew 12:46-50 KJV

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

[Cicero]

Matthew 12:46-50 KJV

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Ya, he was saying that whoever does his will of the Father, also do what Mother Mary and the disciples do. If what you believe is true, who are the mothers?

[Skyhawk]

We all (gay, straight, and everywhere in between) become fertilizer...or ashes.


Or fish food.

[Blank]

@Tacitus I think He was saying that we are His family when we do the will of the father

@Rogue yes our physical bodies do but our souls either go to heaven or hell

[Magus]

I think they will be stuck in the purgatory for a while.

[Smeagol]

I don't believe in Christianity (I'm pagan) but this is how I'd interpret it.

Gay people are not harming straight people. Their gayness doesn't kill, maim, starve, or injure other people. A rapist, a thief, or a murderer : they are more likely to go to hell, their actions hurt whole communities.

[Jess]

@Tacitus I think He was saying that we are His family when we do the will of the father

@Rogue yes our physical bodies do but our souls either go to heaven or hell

souls? what souls? we don't have "souls". once we die, we die. we don't exist anymore, we don't go anywhere.

[Sugaree]

souls? what souls? we don't have "souls". once we die, we die. we don't exist anymore, we don't go anywhere.

In Blank's defense, do you have any proof to back THAT claim? What happens when we die is a big "IF". To say that we have souls that go to a different realm or even to say that we simply cease to exist are both unproved claims.

[cierasuzzanne]

Well God says in the Bible that no man shall sleep with another man and no woman shall sleep with another woman. In the Bible it is not allowed. God made Eve so Adam would have another kind of the same but a different gender. God wouldn't hate you if you are. God loves everyone. But he doesn't like whenever people go against the Bible. And yes if you don't repent your sin and ask God for his forgiveness you will go to Hell. Sorry but if you weren't raised in a Christian home I pray that God is your savior. If you have any questions about the Christian life or any religious questions ask me so you can seek help.

[Skyhawk]

@Rogue yes our physical bodies do but our souls either go to heaven or hell

Souls go wherever they believe exist. If they believe that heaven and hell exist then they can be the judge of which one they go to.

I'm not saying my thoughts as if they were facts, I'm saying it the same way as many religious people would. :)

[Jess]

In Blank's defense, do you have any proof to back THAT claim? What happens when we die is a big "IF". To say that we have souls that go to a different realm or even to say that we simply cease to exist are both unproved claims.

You're right...when I read his post I got a bit pissed off so I replied without thinking clearly, sorry -_-

Well God says in the Bible that no man shall sleep with another man and no woman shall sleep with another woman. In the Bible it is not allowed. God made Eve so Adam would have another kind of the same but a different gender. God wouldn't hate you if you are. God loves everyone. But he doesn't like whenever people go against the Bible. And yes if you don't repent your sin and ask God for his forgiveness you will go to Hell. Sorry but if you weren't raised in a Christian home I pray that God is your savior. If you have any questions about the Christian life or any religious questions ask me so you can seek help.

*facepalm*

[MaximumR]

Well God says in the Bible that no man shall sleep with another man and no woman shall sleep with another woman. In the Bible it is not allowed. God made Eve so Adam would have another kind of the same but a different gender. God wouldn't hate you if you are. God loves everyone. But he doesn't like whenever people go against the Bible. And yes if you don't repent your sin and ask God for his forgiveness you will go to Hell. Sorry but if you weren't raised in a Christian home I pray that God is your savior. If you have any questions about the Christian life or any religious questions ask me so you can seek help.

-_- wow...

[cierasuzzanne]

Hey why did you use my quote and say "-_-wow" like yea i am a christian and what is that suppose to mean??

[MaximumR]

The bible is so old school. Have you even read the book where it says being gay is wrong? Because if you did you would also notice it says shaving your beard, getting tatoos, having sex before marriage, getting a divorce, and getting piercings is on equal status as being gay. But do you just tell people who do any of those things that they're going to Hell? Educate yourself before you make judgements

[cierasuzzanne]

The bible is so old school. Have you even read the book where it says being gay is wrong? Because if you did you would also notice it says shaving your beard, getting tatoos, having sex before marriage, getting a divorce, and getting piercings is on equal status as being gay. But do you just tell people who do any of those things that they're going to Hell? Educate yourself before you make judgements

Um no I am much more educated on beliefs and values far more then you will ever understand. I pray for you.

I don't believe in Christianity (I'm pagan) but this is how I'd interpret it.

Gay people are not harming straight people. Their gayness doesn't kill, maim, starve, or injure other people. A rapist, a thief, or a murderer : they are more likely to go to hell, their actions hurt whole communities.

pa·gan   [pey-guhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks, with little knowledge of religion. Synonyms: polytheist.
2.
a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, gentile; idolator; nonbeliever.
3.
an irreligious or hedonistic person.
4.
a person deemed savage or uncivilized and morally deficient.
adjective
5.
pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, heathenish, idolatrous, polytheistic. Antonyms: Christian, Jewish, Muslim, monotheistic.
6.
of, pertaining to, or characteristic of pagans.
7.
irreligious or hedonistic. Synonyms: unbelieving, godless, atheistic, agnostic; impious, profane, sacrilegious, unholy, ungodly. Antonyms: religious, pious, devout.
8.
of a person deemed backward, savage, or uncivilized or morally or spiritually stunted. Synonyms: primitive, uncultivated, uncultured, heathenish, barbaric, barbarous, philistine. Antonyms: civilized, cultivated, cultured, urbane.

posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

[EvilB]

It says in the bible that homosexuality is wrong.....BUT that is only in the old Testimate and it also states in the old Testimate that disobedient children should be stoned and woman on there "days" should be separated away from anyone. But no one goes by other examples in the old testimate because the homosexuality argument is just part of a pick and chose bible quotes to defend your side. Homosexuality back then was not clean and was more dominant and not monogamist. But I feel now in a committed relashinship it is perfectly fine in Gods eyes :)

[Blank]

Like I said we're all sinners in need of forgiveness. If we ask God for forgiveness and repent (try our best not to sin while drawing strength and growing in love for Him) He will forgive us.

Jess you mentioned before that God doesn't answer prayers. Have you been hurt at church or elsewhere in the past? Something that made you so hostile toward Christianity?

[Jess]

Like I said we're all sinners in need of forgiveness. If we ask God for forgiveness and repent (try our best not to sin while drawing strength and growing in love for Him) He will forgive us.

Jess you mentioned before that God doesn't answer prayers. Have you been hurt at church or elsewhere in the past? Something that made you so hostile toward Christianity?

so how would we tell that he forgave us?

no, I haven't been hurt anywhere. I always had my doubts about Christianity & God and eventually I renounced it completely, because I personally find it to be a bunch of nonsense - with other reasons too (like if God's all loving, why won't he help all the poor children in Africa??). And don't tell me I'll go to hell for saying this, I don't even believe in one.

I don't need, and neither does a lot of other non-believers and people of other religious, to ask some God for forgiveness.


back on topic.

@MaximumR: EXACTLY right. The Old Testament contains a lot of stupid stuff that you can't do, like not being allowed to wear two clothing of different fabrics. if homosexuals go to hell because it goes against the Bible (Old Testament), then a lot of other people - gay or not - will too

[Smeagol]

pa·gan   [pey-guhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks, with little knowledge of religionOkay, I have actually read the bible, and the Quran, as well as many other religious texts, I have attended different services, what I believe is my choice. Synonyms: polytheist.
2.
a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, gentile; idolator; nonbeliever.
3.
an irreligious or hedonistic person.
4.
a person deemed savage or uncivilized and morally deficient.If I harm nobody, it's my own business
adjective
5.
pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, heathenish, idolatrous, polytheistic. Antonyms: Christian, Jewish, Muslim, monotheistic.
6.
of, pertaining to, or characteristic of pagans.
7.
irreligious or hedonistic. Synonyms: unbelieving, godless, atheistic, agnostic; impious, profane, sacrilegious, unholy, ungodly. In ac Christian point of view, there is no solid evidence other than personal belief to say this is right or wrongAntonyms: religious, pious, devout.
8.
of a person deemed backward, savage, or uncivilized or morally or spiritually stunted. Synonyms: primitive, uncultivated, uncultured, heathenish, barbaric, barbarous, philistine. Antonyms: civilized, cultivated, cultured, urbane.

posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

Well, that's lovely...

Lets suppose I was a believer of God, and I was as devoted to him as I am to the Earth and Nature. I don't think that he would hate me because I am a homoromantic asexual. I know what it says in the bible, that men shall not lie with men, and women shall not lie with women... What if I didn't have sex with anybody? What I'm wondering is if it is also, under the same ruling, applying to romantic preferences...

I just think that as long as you aren't harming anybody with your queerness, it's not a sin. "Do unto others as you would like done unto you." Basically, be nice to people. What if God looked into a gay person's soul, thoughts, whatever, and realized that people hate on gay people and how bad it was for them. Especially if they were Christian and respected Him. I wonder, would he punish them further? He must have created gay people for a reason if he's up there at all.

[predatorsfan21]

I've grown up in a Christian household. I have my doubts, but thats another thread for another day.

That being said, on the topic of gays, I have absolutely no problem with them. I hate how most churches (mine included *le sigh*) throws them under the bus. If they are gay, but are good people, do what the Bible says, there is no doubt in my mind they would go to Heaven. I think they will be judged for their actions not their sexuality. If they didnt follow the Bible, then like other human beings, they'll go to Hell (barring it actually exists).

Gays are good people and do Christians no harm whatsoever.

This part is a little offtopic, but I thought I should share anyway:

There is this girl at my school, who might be the biggest redneck ever, and if you ever get her started on homosexuality, she will never stop. ever. She might be the most ignorant person ever, nevertheless, if homosexuality gets brought up in any class, she will go off on how they are pretty much going straight to Hell just for being gay. Anyway, during the school year, I asked her, "what have gays ever done to you? Does homosexuality bother you so much you cant sleep at night? They arent doing anything, just let them be happy. Whore..."

well, thats my take on it.

[Dark Blue]

Not regarding religion, neither.
Regarding religion, most would say down below.
My personal opinion from a basic religious standpoint (I'm not pullin' out bible verses), heaven. They are people, gods creation and shouldn't be spited because of their sexual preference.

[OregonStateDude]

Gay people are not harming straight people. Their gayness doesn't kill, maim, starve, or injure other people.

Exactly. I did not choose this for myself, so why should God punish me for something that was totally out of my control. Just like I did not choose to have blond hair and hazel eyes.

I just think that as long as you aren't harming anybody with your queerness, it's not a sin.

Yupp, I feel the same way. I don't go prancing around and try to convert straight boys to play for my team.

[Neverender]

They go to neither because Neither exist.

[Bougainvillea]

Um no I am much more educated on beliefs and values far more then you will ever understand. I pray for you.

Educated on your own beliefs and values. You can quote the bible all you want, missy. And you can copy and paste from online dictionaries all day long, but its not going to make one bit of difference on our perspective. And if all you are going to do is act like most christians do on facebook and try to have little snarky one liners in your arguments, and say shit like "I pray 4 u" then you are never going to have a decent conversation/debate with anyone on this forum. And if you read that last line, and though "I dont care, all I need is God" then please, get the fuck out.

[TronMau5]

OK heres my thought.
Being GAY does not get put into Gods eyes as horrible. Its just like any other sin in the bible. The bible says that God looks at every sin the same. A person who killed 100 little children is looked at the same as someone who just told their parents a lie. We are all equal in his eyes.
So yes. I think that performing homosexual actions could result in sin. But this does not mean your bound to hell. I look at Homosexuality as an addiction. Like that of one addicted to cocaine. Like one addicted to serving God as a priest. God probably purposely made ppl this way for a reason. To test them. To see if they would put these addictions before him. If your gay, kill people, or lie, and know that you have a problem, and put God first, and ask God for forgiveness. I am pretty sure that he will allow you through the gates of heaven. At the end of the day he gets the last say so. SO all i can tell those who think they may or may not be bound to hell due to a certain sin they cant get over, just pray about it. Let him know how much you want to go to heaven. And ask him, whats true. Us humans are all equal in his eyes, due to the fact that everyone has performed a sin.

Look at it this way.
If you simply being gay is a sin and your bound.
Then the people who are homophobes and continuously cause harm and judge those who are gay. Then they are also bound, due to judging others, and also the rest of the sins they commit daily. :3

[Neverender]

OK heres my thought.
Being GAY does not get put into Gods eyes as horrible. Its just like any other sin in the bible. The bible says that God looks at every sin the same. A person who killed 100 little children is looked at the same as someone who just told their parents a lie. We are all equal in his eyes.
So yes. I think that performing homosexual actions could result in sin. But this does not mean your bound to hell. I look at Homosexuality as an addiction. Like that of one addicted to cocaine. Like one addicted to serving God as a priest. God probably purposely made ppl this way for a reason. To test them. To see if they would put these addictions before him. If your gay, kill people, or lie, and know that you have a problem, and put God first, and ask God for forgiveness. I am pretty sure that he will allow you through the gates of heaven. At the end of the day he gets the last say so. SO all i can tell those who think they may or may not be bound to hell due to a certain sin they cant get over, just pray about it. Let him know how much you want to go to heaven. And ask him, whats true. Us humans are all equal in his eyes, due to the fact that everyone has performed a sin.

tl;dr, You're wasting time with religion. We live, we die, that's it. Make what you can out of it. Don't waste time wondering if a Celestial being actually cares what you do.


If you can go to hell for living happily, You don't need religion.

[shadeslayer1997]

I'll be honest here. I personally believe that being in a relationship with the same sex is a sin. the bible says that god created adam and eve, not adam and steve. the bible does speak of god destroying a city because of it being full of same sex relationships. if homosexuality is a sin, then i say yes, gay people will go to hell. im sorry guys, and im not trying to judge, but that is how i see it. and yes, (if you have read the posts above, you will know what i am talking about.) the bible says god loves everybody. he doesnt hate you for being gay, he hates the sin itself. god loves you. he really does. if you dont approve, im sorry. im just being honest.

[TronMau5]

@ Neverender
Obviously this thread was made to help people who are gay and religious deal with themselves. Not for an athiest to come in and try to convince people that God doesnt exist. If you believe that then so be it, don try to evangelize Athiesm.

@ Shadeslayer
Coolbeans ^.^

[RoseyCadaver]

Maybe since I'm bi I'll pretty exotic tasting to all the plants and animals that take in my nutrients. Or maybe I'll live on in some plant if my ashes are spread across a garden. Who knows.

[Bougainvillea]

@ Neverender
Obviously this thread was made to help people who are gay and religious deal with themselves. Not for an athiest to come in and try to convince people that God doesnt exist. If you believe that then so be it, don try to evangelize Athiesm.

Okay yeah, that's why there are multiple people coming in here saying gays burn in hell.

Real hepful. Because this is the kind of stuff gay people want to fuckin' hear, right?

[purpleninjacookie]

@ Neverender
Obviously this thread was made to help people who are gay and religious deal with themselves. Not for an athiest to come in and try to convince people that God doesnt exist. If you believe that then so be it, don try to evangelize Athiesm.

@ Shadeslayer
Coolbeans ^.^

Thank you soooooooo much :)

[RedViper]

In my opinion there is no heaven or hell, or even a God for that matter. Once we die we just rot in the ground

[Neverender]

@ Neverender
Obviously this thread was made to help people who are gay and religious deal with themselves. Not for an athiest to come in and try to convince people that God doesnt exist. If you believe that then so be it, don try to evangelize Athiesm.

I am here to help people who are gay and religious too. Religion poisons EVERYTHING. People who aren't religious don't have to waste time in caring if a nonexistant celestial being approves of whether they suck dick or not. If God can send you to hell for living your life happily, you don't need any religion. If I can't convince you that he doesn't exist, I can sure convince you that you don't need him.

Thank you soooooooo much :)

Americans these days.

[TheMatrix]

I am here to help people who are gay and religious too.
I might have believed you for a second. Alas:

Religion poisons EVERYTHING.
While we are glad to have you back at VT, you do need to keep in mind its purpose -- namely, to help others. Posts like these aren't going to make anyone feel better or even contribute to the topic.
I might even go as far as to say that you are shallow-minded yourself because now you're the one pushing your beliefs on others. Kind of strange, no?

Yes, this is ROTW, I am fully aware of that. People want to voice their opinions, and by all means they should. But by going off-topic and being like other not-so-well-liked members on this forum makes both you and your side look bad.
Please, do us all a favour and think about whether you might be hurting someone. Like I said, it's alright to voice your opinion, but not in a way that hurts others. There is a difference.

I do not want to hand out infractions, but I might have to -- and this goes for everyone -- if this continues.

[Neverender]

While we are glad to have you back at VT,
Oh, no you're not. I'm a pain in the ass. I was less-so in the past, but now I just don't care about other people's emotions because no one cares about mine. You can be honest.

I might even go as far as to say that you are shallow-minded yourself because now you're the one pushing your beliefs on others. Kind of strange, no?
My only belief is that we should not have religious beliefs. They waste time and they take away from what life should be. When I say they poison everything, I am being serious. They poison this entire thread's idea, because people who hold these beliefs begin to wonder if them being themselves will give them an eternity of burning in hell. If you can't live true to yourself because of a system of beliefs, reject it.


The smartest men follow their own direction. Not the directions of old books, manuscripts or the words of those "chosen to be god's representative on Earth."

[PwnDGamer]

i am pretty much gay, after reading the bible i found out God nor Jesus hates gays, only the media, douchebags, pricks, and most parents hate gays, my gramma, bro, and both my parents are always talking shit and they say God hates gays, but then i give a lecture about why he doesn't. then they stop for a few days

[PerpetualImperfexion]

John 3:16 clearly states that anyone who repents, believes, etc will go to heaven. In other words, homosexuality IS a sin, but it's no worse than mouthing off to your parents. So just repent like you would for any other sin.

[SmileyFace13]

i honestly would say i dont really give a shit because i was told being gay is either by choice or by genes and i think i would go by genes...there's nothing i really could do about it...i try and i try not to be but it just would never go away.....DAMN!!!

[Magus]

John 3:16 clearly states that anyone who repents, believes, etc will go to heaven. In other words, homosexuality IS a sin, but it's no worse than mouthing off to your parents. So just repent like you would for any other sin.

So, I can rape, pillage and murder freely, and then if repent for my sins I will enjoy eternal bliss?

Sounds very just to me.

[Cicero]

The bible is so old school. Have you even read the book where it says being gay is wrong? Because if you did you would also notice it says shaving your beard, getting tatoos, having sex before marriage, getting a divorce, and getting piercings is on equal status as being gay. But do you just tell people who do any of those things that they're going to Hell? Educate yourself before you make judgements

Wrong. The bible doesn't say it's a sin to have tats and whatever you said about a beard. Getting a divorce is frowned upon in the bible, but if it's for the best, I do not believe that it is a sin. The bible clearly says that if you are homosexual, you go to hell. It is clearly written. Just so you know that's what the bible says. My personal opinions (other than the divorce thing) have not been included in this.


John 3:16 clearly states that anyone who repents, believes, etc will go to heaven. In other words, homosexuality IS a sin, but it's no worse than mouthing off to your parents. So just repent like you would for any other sin.


You must not know what repent means. It means to turn away from your sin. So if you repent from being gay, you turn away from it. If you repent from cussing, you turn away from it.

Exactly. I did not choose this for myself, so why should God punish me for something that was totally out of my control. Just like I did not choose to have blond hair and hazel eyes.
According to the bible, homosexuality is a choice. According to the bible, homosexuality is unnatural.

OK heres my thought.
Being GAY does not get put into Gods eyes as horrible. Its just like any other sin in the bible. The bible says that God looks at every sin the same. A person who killed 100 little children is looked at the same as someone who just told their parents a lie. We are all equal in his eyes.
So yes. I think that performing homosexual actions could result in sin. But this does not mean your bound to hell. I look at Homosexuality as an addiction. Like that of one addicted to cocaine. Like one addicted to serving God as a priest. God probably purposely made ppl this way for a reason. To test them. To see if they would put these addictions before him. If your gay, kill people, or lie, and know that you have a problem, and put God first, and ask God for forgiveness. I am pretty sure that he will allow you through the gates of heaven. At the end of the day he gets the last say so. SO all i can tell those who think they may or may not be bound to hell due to a certain sin they cant get over, just pray about it. Let him know how much you want to go to heaven. And ask him, whats true. Us humans are all equal in his eyes, due to the fact that everyone has performed a sin.


The bible isn't a simple subject. People study their whole lives and don't fully understand the bible. Yes, every sin is the same. But on a different level. Telling a white lie isn't the same as killing 100 kids, because that's 100 sins vs 1
God also says who goes to hell



Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1*
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"*
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."*
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

[Gaybaby94]

Neither, because those places don't exist.

[Neverender]

The bible clearly says that if you are homosexual, you go to hell. It is clearly written. Just so you know that's what the bible says.

Who can take the Bible seriously anyways? God tells Moses "Thou Shalt Not Kill" from the top of the mountain and what have you, then almost immediately afterwards, Moses tells his followers to rise up with their swords and kill their friends and brothers for their Profanity.

[Dan co.]

Also the part of the homosexuals will go to hell is in the old testament wich also says and eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth something like that so by that logic most of us would be blind and or toothless. Also during the corrupt times of the church during the middle ages regular citizens were not aloud to veiw the bible and the priest tweeked the bible a bit so they could have put that part in without us knowing at all. This wouldn't be the first time the church does a massive mistake.

[Professional Russian]

I dont belive in a reliong so you go no where but into the ground thats aobut it

[boonsim]

IMO they go to neither heaven nor hell. They end up decomposing in the ground just like the rest of us when they die.

[Bluebird14]

Hevan... My god loves everybody

[Bluebird14]

God*

[Cicero]

Also the part of the homosexuals will go to hell is in the old testament wich also says and eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth something like that so by that logic most of us would be blind and or toothless. Also during the corrupt times of the church during the middle ages regular citizens were not aloud to veiw the bible and the priest tweeked the bible a bit so they could have put that part in without us knowing at all. This wouldn't be the first time the church does a massive mistake.

Nope, the bible says that it's a sin, along we being a drunk, murderer, rapist, and prostitute, if it's with those other sins, which are clearly sins. It would be a sin. The Catholic Church did change some stuff, but first off, they only changed they're bible, not every bible known to man, secondly, a priest doesn't change the bible. A scribe only translates it. The Holy Bible had nothing added nor removed. Only the catholic bible. So, they didn't change anything. So if we're talking about bibles like the NKJV or KJV or any Christian bible, homosexuality is a sin. And probably it says the same thing in the catholic bible.

Moses did not commit any sin by murder. Murder is a sin. But if your defending your land, which was the land of God during the time, it's ok. Just like world war 2, hitler murdered all those Jews cause he was racist, so what he and nazi Germany did was a sin. What America did, by killing them, was not a sin. If you kill someone to protect other lives, it's not a sin.

[vitorioso]

Good lord (excuse the pun), this thread is craazzzy. Well considering I believe in everything and nothing (ahaha religions are finicky) I personally believe that for "Heaven" gays are definitely accepted. Does a Heaven that humans believe in exist? Maybe. Does another plane of existence exist? It's complicated then.

[TheMatrix]

The ancient Greeks were sure that atop Mount Olympus, there were superhuman beings that maintained the world. They had never even heard of this "one omnipotent go" idea, ever. After you died, Hades would determine whether you would be in the better part of the Underworld, or the bad part. Was being homosexual a sin then? Surely there were people who were. Probably other people had something to say about that, no?
And yet, the modern generation has never been able to find the Underworld. Think about it, thousands of souls, either shrieking or singing, perhaps even right under our feet! But nobody could find them, challenging the existence of their very beliefs.

Now, similarly, we can use that story and many other disprovings of other ancient religions to determine that there could not possibly be a "heaven" or "hell", so gays -- and pretty much everyone else -- will not be going anywhere.

ITT: Does religion even exist?

[Neverender]

Was being homosexual a sin then? Surely there were people who were. Probably other people had something to say about that, no?

Firstly, Homosexual activity was actively practiced in Ancient Athens. It was seen as an excellent way to pass the time.

ITT: Does religion even exist?

No.

[vitorioso]

The issue is what is seen as "sin" gradually changes over time for humans, but you can't really change your entire religion's philosophy to believe something new, no? Ancient Greece (IDK about Ancient Rome though) practiced homosexuality to a great frequency. After Antiquity obviously the views on homosexuality changed, and now once again they're changing. So, what is there to do about the religion's stance on it? Do you update it, which then makes it invalid and (at least for Christianity) not the word of Christ? Or do you keep it set in stone, making it outdated and ridiculous?

[Neverender]

The issue is what is seen as "sin" gradually changes over time for humans, but you can't really change your entire religion's philosophy to believe something new, no? Ancient Greece (IDK about Ancient Rome though) practiced homosexuality to a great frequency. After Antiquity obviously the views on homosexuality changed, and now once again they're changing. So, what is there to do about the religion's stance on it? Do you update it, which then makes it invalid and (at least for Christianity) not the word of Christ? Or do you keep it set in stone, making it outdated and ridiculous?

You forget it as the religion becomes worthless garble. As an example, Imagine, just imagine how advanced our society could be today if scientific progress wasn't stifled for 1600 years because of Religion.

[Aves]

Have to say this. In the OP, it says that gays go to heaven, no questions asked. I'm unsure if gays can go to heaven, simply. But if they can, being gay is not an all-access pass.

[LyaJen]

Well, i don't believe in either one.

[Neverender]

Have to say this. In the OP, it says that gays go to heaven, no questions asked. I'm unsure if gays can go to heaven, simply. But if they can, being gay is not an all-access pass.

Who would want to go there anyways if there's no gays allowed?

[Cicero]

Who would want to go there anyways if there's no gays allowed?

Gay haters, homophobes, anyone who believes in heaven and wants to cover their own asses first :D

[Sugaree]

Gay haters, homophobes, anyone who believes in heaven and wants to cover their own asses first :D

Like you.

[OregonStateDude]

According to the bible, homosexuality is a choice. According to the bible, homosexuality is unnatural.

Well then, that part of the Bible is wrong (to me anyways). Because I don't feel unnatural, and I don't feel like a freak of nature.

And we can debate this "choice" thing until the year 2500. But it won't change my way of thinking; I did not all of a sudden wake up one morning and say to myself, "let's try being gay for awhile and see how this plays out".

Saying something is a choice means you have other alternatives. I choose to drink Diet Coke because regular Coke gives me stomach cramps. But I can't just automatically "choose" to be attracted to girls; it just doesnt work that way.

[Neverender]

According to the bible, homosexuality is a choice. According to the bible, homosexuality is unnatural.
And we can debate this "choice" thing until the year 2500. But it won't change my way of thinking; I did not all of a sudden wake up one morning and say to myself, "let's try being gay for awhile and see how this plays out".

It's self-defeating on how non-sensical religion is. If God created us, and God is perfect and omnipotent as he must be by definition, why would he create us with the capability to be gay and then hate us for it.

That reflects back on himself as imperfect and therefore we can unnilaterally conclude that Instead of there being an imperfect god, there are simply lots of imperfect men pretending to be god and therefore religion is false. This is a single loophole, if I had the time to write loopholes for everything in the bible this post would never end.

[Green Arrow]

I personally don't believe in god but if god did make us all, then he made people gay. Why would he send gay people to hell when he's the one who made us gay... doesn't seem right to me.

[UTurn]

It's self-defeating on how non-sensical religion is. If God created us, and God is perfect and omnipotent as he must be by definition, why would he create us with the capability to be gay and then hate us for it.

That reflects back on himself as imperfect and therefore we can unnilaterally conclude that Instead of there being an imperfect god, there are simply lots of imperfect men pretending to be god and therefore religion is false. This is a single loophole, if I had the time to write loopholes for everything in the bible this post would never end.

oh dont be a dumbass. if you have ever read any part of the bible, you would realize God doesnt hate anyone, regardless of how sinful they are. everyone sins, God hates the sin not the sinner (everyone). im not debating whether being gay is a sin or not (even tho the bible says so, it could be wrong) but God doesnt hate anyone regardless of what theyve done..

EDIT: and if being gay is a sin, and you are a saved christian, then regardless of whether being gay is a sin or not, you would be saved and therefore going to Heaven. so whatever your belief about being gay is a sin or not, you would be saved of all sins, and therefore going to heaven.

[Jess]

oh dont be a dumbass. if you have ever read any part of the bible, you would realize God doesnt hate anyone, regardless of how sinful they are. everyone sins, God hates the sin not the sinner (everyone). im not debating whether being gay is a sin or not (even tho the bible says so, it could be wrong) but God doesnt hate anyone regardless of what theyve done..

EDIT: and if being gay is a sin, and you are a saved christian, then regardless of whether being gay is a sin or not, you would be saved and therefore going to Heaven. so whatever your belief about being gay is a sin or not, you would be saved of all sins, and therefore going to heaven.

sure....he doesn't hate us...but still kills people...or have them killed.

also, you say that if you're a "saved Christian" you would be going to heaven. does that mean that people that don't believe in a god or are of other religions (and might be gay or not) will go to hell?

[UTurn]

sure....he doesn't hate us...but still kills people...or have them killed.

also, you say that if you're a "saved Christian" you would be going to heaven. does that mean that people that don't believe in a god or are of other religions (and might be gay or not) will go to hell?

yes.. God goes around with a freakin AK47 and shoots people. or says "hey Johnny, go kill Jake for me" PEOPLE kill people, God doesnt kill people. he allows it to go on because we are a fallen race (all sinners). and God doesnt control our lives, he just knows what has, is and will happen

[EmptyBottle]

Heaven. Why would they go to hell?

[Neverender]

yes.. God goes around with a freakin AK47 and shoots people. or says "hey Johnny, go kill Jake for me" PEOPLE kill people, God doesnt kill people. he allows it to go on because we are a fallen race (all sinners). and God doesnt control our lives, he just knows what has, is and will happen

Who the fuck buys into that? Telling people "You are born a wretch" "You are born a sinner".

In religion, you are born sick and then commanded to be well. This doesn't bide well by me.


God has No fucking ownership of me. Irregardless of whether or not he made me (Which he most certainly didn't), I don't want to be owned. I renounce it. I am not a fucking slave for your god.

[Cicero]

Who the fuck buys into that? Telling people "You are born a wretch" "You are born a sinner".

In religion, you are born sick and then commanded to be well. This doesn't bide well by me.


God has No fucking ownership of me. Irregardless of whether or not he made me (Which he most certainly didn't), I don't want to be owned. I renounce it. I am not a fucking slave for your god.

Ya, that's why he gave humans a choice and that's why we are born sinners. Honestly, it doesn't matter if it bides well by you, your not apart of the religion meaning why should you care? In Christianity everyone is born a sinner, and the only way to get into heaven, in Christianity, is through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. There is no other way into heaven, there's no magic cell phone to bribe god into heaven. Only Christ. Then theirs the debate whether or not you can be a Christian and gay. According to the bible, you cannot be gay and Christian, you can be a "recovering" gay and Christian. In Christianity God wants you to turn away from sin, repent, if you refuse to repent from your sin. Obviously the Holy Ghost isn't inside you (something you won't get, no really, it's a very complicated thing to understand, the holy trinity is 3 entities, but are one, very complicated), in Christianity, you should be disgusted by sin, and try your best to turn away from it. Everyone has their pitfalls and makes mistakes, and that's why, according to Christianity, Christ died for our sins. In the bible, God says that no one deserves entrance into heaven, but that's why Christ was sent down. In Christianity, you surrender to Christ, there is a small group of Christians who claim to speak in tongues (Christians are divided, between this, most Christians believe its jibberish) and they say, that they surrender to Christ and can speak a language that only the holy ghost can help with. As if their being controlled by the holy ghost. As I said 99% of Christians believe their crazy and give a bad name to christianity. So as a Christian you surrender your life to Christ, if you don't. You, according to Christianity, go to hell.

I wrote all that without putting anything of what I think in :D I feel proud of myself :D

Edit:
As the badboyabs said, god allows things to happen. Christians have a very hard life, the bible specifically says that if your a Christian you will be mocked, and ridiculed, Christians have it the hardest (out of any other religion). In the middle east, they are ruthlessly slaughtered. Back in the days of Christ, you were stoned. In fact, the story of "bloody Mary" originated from the queen of England named Mary (idk which one) but she was known, for slaughtering all Christians and (I think she did this, or I'm confused with another ruthless killer) burning them on the cross. In Christianity though, that doesn't matter, Christians don't fear death because they know where they're going afterwards.

But the facts are: is that Christians have it very, very hard. They are ruthlessly slaughtered and have been throughout history, and they don't fear death. As you can tell, God is mocked and Christians are mocked, on this very thread. But it's cause Christians are the "minority", well the Christians who either read or believe in the bible.

Mavaroc: (or something like that I forgot)
Like you.

Which one "Like you". I have made sure, in barely any of my posts in this section, shows how I feel or believe. So how can I be a "gay hater" if I have never said I was? Twisting words isn't good. I believe it isn't (add that to my rare posts of what I actually say I believe in)

[Bougainvillea]

Yeah well, you seem to like to hide behind the bible a lot.

[Cicero]

Yeah well, you seem to like to hide behind the bible a lot.

This is a thread about gays going to heaven or hell, heaven and hell pertain to the bible. Because the bible talks about those places.

[shyguy21]

Christians have it the hardest (out of any other religion). In the middle east, they are ruthlessly slaughtered. But the facts are: is that Christians have it very, very hard. They are ruthlessly slaughtered and have been throughout history, and they don't fear death. As you can tell, God is mocked and Christians are mocked, on this very thread. But it's cause Christians are the "minority", You made sense until here. Christianity is the largest religion in the world. Around 1/3 of the worlds polulation are Christians. Christians aren't under any threat and they don't have it "very, very hard" as you say... At least not in this country. If anything, I would say Muslims have it the hardest in America. Christianity is mocked on this thread because I would say the majority of VT aren't Christian.

[Neverender]

Ya, that's why he gave humans a choice and that's why we are born sinners. Honestly, it doesn't matter if it bides well by you, your not apart of the religion meaning why should you care? In Christianity everyone is born a sinner, and the only way to get into heaven, in Christianity, is through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. There is no other way into heaven, there's no magic cell phone to bribe god into heaven. Only Christ. Then theirs the debate whether or not you can be a Christian and gay. According to the bible, you cannot be gay and Christian, you can be a "recovering" gay and Christian. In Christianity God wants you to turn away from sin, repent, if you refuse to repent from your sin. Obviously the Holy Ghost isn't inside you (something you won't get, no really, it's a very complicated thing to understand, the holy trinity is 3 entities, but are one, very complicated), in Christianity, you should be disgusted by sin, and try your best to turn away from it. Everyone has their pitfalls and makes mistakes, and that's why, according to Christianity, Christ died for our sins. In the bible, God says that no one deserves entrance into heaven, but that's why Christ was sent down. In Christianity, you surrender to Christ, there is a small group of Christians who claim to speak in tongues (Christians are divided, between this, most Christians believe its jibberish) and they say, that they surrender to Christ and can speak a language that only the holy ghost can help with. As if their being controlled by the holy ghost. As I said 99% of Christians believe their crazy and give a bad name to christianity. So as a Christian you surrender your life to Christ, if you don't. You, according to Christianity, go to hell.

I wrote all that without putting anything of what I think in :D I feel proud of myself :D

Edit:
As the badboyabs said, god allows things to happen. Christians have a very hard life, the bible specifically says that if your a Christian you will be mocked, and ridiculed, Christians have it the hardest (out of any other religion). In the middle east, they are ruthlessly slaughtered. Back in the days of Christ, you were stoned. In fact, the story of "bloody Mary" originated from the queen of England named Mary (idk which one) but she was known, for slaughtering all Christians and (I think she did this, or I'm confused with another ruthless killer) burning them on the cross. In Christianity though, that doesn't matter, Christians don't fear death because they know where they're going afterwards.

But the facts are: is that Christians have it very, very hard. They are ruthlessly slaughtered and have been throughout history, and they don't fear death. As you can tell, God is mocked and Christians are mocked, on this very thread. But it's cause Christians are the "minority", well the Christians who either read or believe in the bible.

Mavaroc: (or something like that I forgot)


Which one "Like you". I have made sure, in barely any of my posts in this section, shows how I feel or believe. So how can I be a "gay hater" if I have never said I was? Twisting words isn't good. I believe it isn't (add that to my rare posts of what I actually say I believe in)

Do you also believe you are made from dust, or if you're a woman from a bit of rib or a muslim a clot of blood?

[organickush]

As Jesus said about gay people, " ."

[Bougainvillea]

This is a thread about gays going to heaven or hell, heaven and hell pertain to the bible. Because the bible talks about those places.

No, but people who live their lives by the bible, and people who will ultimately affect our lives that live by the bible sure like to talk about those places.

[deadpie]

They (me being one) don't go to heaven or hell. They simply die when they die. Rot and become nothing more than a bunch of bones. Just like every other human. There's no heaven and there's no hell - the concept of both are far fetched and completely stupid with no evidence to support such things. Also take in consideration that even if your religion said you won't go to hell for liking the cock you're going to burn in their version of hell in any other religion that disagrees or for the sole fact you're not worshiping that religion. Just so absurd to think about all of this. Just plain fucking batshit crazy that millions of people actually believe such spewing diarrhea nonsense in a growing booming age of science where proof and evidence are more and more likely to be given to you.

[oscarlichen]

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

[Cicero]

Do you also believe you are made from dust, or if you're a woman from a bit of rib or a muslim a clot of blood?

Are you asking me what I believe? I do not recognize those examples, only 2 of them.

[CalicoCat]

I wish there was more time in the day that I could go about educating myself on the bible but frankly I have never been interested and have never had a parental figure my entire childhood demand that I go to church or read the bible or give a fuck about it what so ever. (Not to say that I think its okay to bash the crap out of it when someone else believes in it to a proper extent.. you have to be somewhat sensitive.) So my answer really lies in my own beliefs, I really couldn't say whether or not there is a hell or heaven and NOBODY can, nobody in this life has the right to define that kind of ultimatum especially against one another considering we are all pretty much engineered the same. That only leads me to believe that we are our own heaven and hell and we are responsible for ourselves above all else, essentially our very own god. I also though don't think that being homosexual is a choice but I don't think anyone anywhere else made that choice for us.. Its almost like the intricate engineering of the human brain/body. Example: Why does our brain go into different levels of sleep? When it hits the deepest sleep our bodies are made to power out the muscle movements and essentially paralyze us as to not act out our dreams. Almost everyone on the planet has that ability their bodies just do it naturally. The same thing goes for sexuality, its fluid.. It just comes with the package that is you. More so though, I think people are the same but different and the differences have never let us down from learning and accepting growth in ourselves even if it takes a long time sometimes. Besides what about bisexuality and pansexuality etc? Does heaven and hell have rules and regulations for them too? Its really doubtful that any of us will ever be able to give a definitive answer to this question.

[LatinaVivit]

This is an excellent photo. As the times go by, religions change, as well as people's views on the world and morality. Don't believe me? If not, think about the good some religions do, we'll use orphanages for example. This seems like the right think to do, yes? On one hand, you're bringing these kids into--hopefully--a loving home and winning their souls for Christ. On the other hand, you're directly violating Deuteronomy 23:2. I don't know about you, but I think that law is a little outdated.

[adamchubby]

Do many people still genuinely believe in heaven and hell? In civilized countries with good standards of education I think this is rare now?

[LatinaVivit]

Do many people still genuinely believe in heaven and hell? In civilized countries with good standards of education I think this is rare now?

In America and some parts of Canada most people still believe in God. In Europe, Australia, and all those other places with a lot of European influence, they tend to not be nearly as religious.

[HackerExecute]

Allow me, but I believe they go under the ground or get cremated :yes:

[Darknova8]

Well I myself personally think that gays will go to heaven,but before I explain why, lets see why this idea or subject is so debatable.As the years go on....more and more teens are becoming gay....and if they are brought up in a religious family, most will be taught that be attracted or having feelings for the same sex is wrong and its a horrible sin....and that God hates gays, lesbians, or even bisexual people....when a teen feels the need to "come out " they have the tendacy of feeling ashamed in themselves because of what their parents have told them about homosexuality.....some of these events lead to suicide due to pressure and disappointment and even the feeling of being unwanted or not loved....now there are many places in the Bible where it States that a man sleeping with another man is wrong (sorry I would put a quote but I'm not about to look through a 900 paged book) And there is another part in the Bible that says when a women sleeps with another man...she is brought to her father and is stoned to death....now I'm pretty sure people aren't going to be doing that today....Overall, I'm saying that yes a Bible does state that about homoelsexuality....but as the years go on and people develope....the Bible becomes more and more out dated and just isn't fitting into today's society...I have recently went to a church session and even the pastor said not to interpret the Bible from word to word....when the Bible was frost written...people didn't know how to cleanly explain what they meant so they would often say things that might relate to what they mean.....by stoning to death...did they mean be punished?
I personally think gays go to heaven because it seems that God loves everyone and no matter what their sin is....he will love you...if God can except murderers,rapist, and drug atticts into heaven....why cant he except gays? There are countless of people that state that they have been having feelings for the same sex since they were young...and yes I have been having feelings for guys since I was like 5...now this also brings up a new question....can you be born gay? Well if your can be born with a birth defect....then why cant you be born gay?
All I want to out out there...is if your gay and if your religion is holding you back from "coming out " then you have to know that avid loves you no matter if your gay, lesbian, or bisexual....I really hoped this helped people...I really put a lot of thought into this :)

I agree and try adding paragraphs next time much easier to read.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

In reply to DannyBoy:

Just a few comments.
1. God loves everyone despite their flaws. Everyone sins. Everyone is tempted to sin. Everyone has problems. Because God loves you He wants to see you overcome those problems to prove your faith and whatnot. Doesn't mean you have to, but that is His goal. He still has to judge you in the end on your choices but He will also take into account the amount you knew about him. He will be fair and merciful assuming you ask Him to be. You have to be the one to want forgiveness and all that. That's my religious spill.
2. Like you said, many people have had homosexual tendencies or desires. Almost everyone does. Those thoughts will pop up in your mind. But if almost everyone has them, does that make everyone gay? No. Only the ones who act on those thoughts would be considered gay. Others would be considered typical. Thoughts are a hard thing to control and those things can come up, but it's up to you on what you do about them. No one is forced to be gay or straight or bi or whatever. It's ultimately, for the most part, up to you to decide. It's your body. Your mind. Do what you want with it.
3. You said people are born with birth defects so why can't they be born gay. Would gays rather think that being gay is a birth defect? Because then that proves that they aren't normal which I'm assuming would be kind of offensive if I was in their position. I just thought that what you said was a bit odd.

To sum it up: God loves you but maybe not all of your choices. It's your choice to act or not act on your thoughts and to think what you want to think because it's your mind and your body. Be who you want to be not because you think you have to or because you are forbidden. Do what you want because that's what you want.

Sorry if I offended anyone. Just saying what I wanted to say.

[WaffleSingSong]

I personally think that Gays/Bisexuls can go to Heaven. The Bible says that it is only his idea who and who does not go to Hell regardless of what they have done and it is not for humanity to judge. A lot of mainstream Christians forget that.

[NotYourSombrero]

As the years go on....more and more teens are becoming gay.

People don't "become gay." People come out of the closet. You don't wake up one day and say "Hey, I think I will become gay today."

[Cicero]

I personally think that Gays/Bisexuls can go to Heaven. The Bible says that it is only his idea who and who does not go to Hell regardless of what they have done and it is not for humanity to judge. A lot of mainstream Christians forget that.

Well, The bible specifically says

"9*Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10*nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

That seems clear of what God thinks of it.


People don't "become gay." People come out of the closet. You don't wake up one day and say "Hey, I think I will become gay today."

Playing peeka boo? Lol jk, he probably meant over the course of time they become gay.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

If you believe in God, then you should also probably believe in being righteous. Like the Bible and many other Holy Books have said, the righteous will inherit the kingdom of heaven and the wicked will receive what they have earned. But even after you die you are still given the chance to come unto God. The wicked or evil or whatever you want to call it will get their chance to repent if they so choose. It's all up to you to make your own choices. It's your life. You will be judged on it. You will get what you earned. It's yor choice.

[havingfun]

As long as you accepted Christ as your savior, then you are okay. Gay or not

However, most gays reject Jesus, so it can make the point moot.

[Infinityslam]

They won't go to heaven nor to hell. Simply becase once they're dead their mental abilities are gone, the only thing that rests of them is a dead body. Heaven simply doesn't exist.

[goodbyeVTF21]

as long as you live a good holy life, you wont go to hell for being gay. God loves everybody, and people saying god kills people. NO DYING IS PART OF LIFE!

[Gaybaby94]

Neither. I will simply be buRied 6 feet under the ground where my nutrients will be supplied to the soil. Simple science. I'm no different just because I'm gay.

[Professional Russian]

niether you will just become dust and be in a coffin simple

[Evan-9]

I am very religious and I don't believe just because someone is not hetero that they will go to hell. Not everyone who is religious believes that homosexuality is a sin.

[Human]

No where like everyone

[randomnessqueen]

it doesnt matter if youre homosexual. youll go to heaven based on your merit in life

[Mayon]

The Bible was written by man.... a long time ago. It reflects their current beliefs and how the writers perceive gays. A lot has changed since then, the Bible is outdated.

[randomnessqueen]

i think someone misunderstood my comment somehow.

your afterlife is not decided by whether or not you are homosexual, your sexual preference is a completely irrelevant point when deciding whether or not youve been a good or bad person. one of any sexual preference has the equal chance of being a good or bad person. there is really no moral difference whatsoever between someone who is homosexual and someone who is heterosexual or anything else.

[Light Warrior 7]

So, wait...God loves everyone, but he only saves those who accept him? Isn't that sorta, y'know, a contradiction?

Oh yeah!! So it is ._.

[PleasureMe7777]

God created Everyone the way they are; Gay, Straight, BI(ME) and he didnt mess you. U cant control weather or not ur Gay or Bi....It happenss when ur very young and u have no control over it. So i think they are going to heaven.

[riguy99]

in my opinion i think all people no matter what race, beliefs, and thought will go to heaven if they don't sin.


god is forgiving

[RoseyCadaver]

Neither. They go to the club of course.

[LikeAJay]

M aybe the term ghost is to the people who were evil that stayed. I think if there not evil they go to heaven

[Pipo]

Religion is a joke. If these people weren't told there was a god at a young age, they wouldn't spontaneously become religious. It's all a comforting illusion you were brainwashed to believe.

religon........the greatest scandal of all, give people false hope and have them think that dieing is the best thing....... so that they can think there going to where the rest of there family is, or where 70 virgins are, or whatever lies they say these days ..............................*..............................*.......DONT LET THEM BRAINWASH YOU!!!!!!!!

I edited your posts to get rid of the red font. Please do not post in red font since moderators use it when editing posts, such as this one. ~Bath

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Religion is a joke. If these people weren't told there was a god at a young age, they wouldn't spontaneously become religious. It's all a comforting illusion you were brainwashed to believe.

religon........the greatest scandal of all, give people false hope and have them think that dieing is the best thing....... so that they can think there going to where the rest of there family is, or where 70 virgins are, or whatever lies they say these days ..............................*..............................*.......DONT LET THEM BRAINWASH YOU!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with having some hope? What's so bad about believing that there is something good out there to hope for and have faith in? What is so completely horrible in believing that there is something besides this Earth, that there is something after? What is so inexplicably wrong about believing that there is something better than this crappy, horrible world we live in today? What it so bad about having some hope? Would you really rather live thinking that when you die, that's it, your done, no more? Can you really tell me what is so wrong about beleling in a religion or a God?

[Pipo]

Religion is a joke. If these people weren't told there was a god at a young age, they wouldn't spontaneously become religious. It's all a comforting illusion you were brainwashed to believe.

religon........the greatest scandal of all, give people false hope and have them think that dieing is the best thing....... so that they can think there going to where the rest of there family is, or where 70 virgins are, or whatever lies they say these days ..............................*..............................*.......DONT LET THEM BRAINWASH YOU!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with having some hope? What's so bad about believing that there is something good out there to hope for and have faith in? What is so completely horrible in believing that there is something besides this Earth, that there is something after? What is so inexplicably wrong about believing that there is something better than this crappy, horrible world we live in today? What it so bad about having some hope? Would you really rather live thinking that when you die, that's it, your done, no more? Can you really tell me what is so wrong about beleling in a religion or a God?

Might as well as 'tell me why it's right to believe in religion and god' Don't you see how they control your living? religion and god they all set you limits what you can do and not. For example you can't be gay cuz you're in some religion, you can do this and that cuz you're in religion. Who came back from the dead saying 'oh there's pretty fields and everything is so much more fun' no body did. You can believe what you want, I don't make you to believe that there is something after death or there isn't. Believe what you want I just say my opinion about how I see religion and yes it's true that this is a crappy world we live in. But it's also wrong that religion is something that everyone believe in blindingly. Besides I think you might want to hope something else than that there is something after death. There is a lot more better things to have hope in than that there is something after death.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

They don't control me. Yes they have rules and guidelines, but it is my choice to follow them or not. Nobody makes me. That is my choice. Nobody knows what heaven looks like, but 'Spritiual Paradise' sounds pretty good to me and I believe that it will be ten times better than Earth. I don't believe blindly. I've learned and gathered knowledge from plenty different people and sources and have formed my own testimony from all of it. There a lot of things good to hope for, and life after death (to me) is one of those good things. Believe what you want. I will believe what I want.

[Pipo]

They don't control me. Yes they have rules and guidelines, but it is my choice to follow them or not. Nobody makes me. That is my choice. Nobody knows what heaven looks like, but 'Spritiual Paradise' sounds pretty good to me and I believe that it will be ten times better than Earth. I don't believe blindly. I've learned and gathered knowledge from plenty different people and sources and have formed my own testimony from all of it. There a lot of things good to hope for, and life after death (to me) is one of those good things. Believe what you want. I will believe what I want.

Ya just think who gave that same knowledge and learn to those people.

[Chronos]

Well, I don't believe in Heaven or Hell so... That was easy :P

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Levy]

Better question.. Is there a heaven or hell for gays to go to?

[Gordo]

Better question.. Is there a heaven or hell for gays to go to?

Like their own special one?

[Manjusri]

Oooh religion. This thread is a couple pages long, and i'm lazy enough to not read more than a page, so if i'm reposting information that's already here.. sorry.

First of all if you have any understanding of your religion, god is supposed to accept everyone. Man, woman, gay, straight, bisexual, transexual, murderers, child molestors, convicts, whatever.
The bible also states that god will allow you to "repent for all sins". However it also says you can't just one day be like, "holy shit i'm so sorry forgive me send me to heaven and all that good stuff".
Having that said you can essentially be a christian, murder a man, and repent. Then be allowed into heaven when you die. So if you can kill someone, why can't you be gay?

The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire "because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord" (Gen. 19:13)

This right here is why homosexuality is looked down upon by many religions. Now according to the church all sins can be repented. I'm not saying gay people are going to walk into your house and steal all your friends for sex, because obviously that doesn't happen. However if you are gay, you supposedly "apologize for your lifestyle" or something of the sorts. God is supposed to forgive you for this - because he forgives everyone, right?

So there ya go. Go ahead and be gay, god doesn't care. The only reason homosexuality is looked down upon is because of the story above. Those 'angels' essentially set the score for gay people, and it started off on the wrong foot. If you're a faithful gay, you'll have no problem getting into heaven.

Ps: i don't have a religion, so i don't believe any of this. but if you're religious, then there ya go. :)

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Religion is fake. Biggest spell ever put on society. Heaven and Hell both don't exist. If I was religious I believe most would go to heaven, really they're very nice people.

Don't care about the stupid sin that does not apply to reality unlike the rest.

[level_up]

Hopefully whichever one isn't celibate lol

[Aves]

In all honesty, I'm surprised this thread is still alive. What anyone seems to realize is what IS Heaven or Hell? Both vary by your own personal beliefs. There is no one answer to this question. If you ask a Catholic, they'll say no, they don't go to Heaven. If you ask a Christian of a religion that accepts gays fully, they might say they do. It all depends. In all honesty, I don't know whether or not they do. As I was raised a Catholic, I want to say know, but my morality wants to say yes, they can.

Who does and doesn't go to Heaven is not our call though.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

To guy who posted bad reputation comment (how am I hating anyone?) *pumps shotgun for stupid comment*

[Alliegator]

I don't know if there even is a heaven or hell, but if there is then they'll probably go to heaven - if they are good people.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

This is what it comes down to. If you believe in Heaven and Hell, then you also believe in God and sin. That means you probably also believe that homosexuality is a sin. Unrepentant sinners would go to Hell while the righteous and repentant sinners would go to Heaven.

I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but those who want to do it should feel free to. God doesn't approve but He still loves you and will give you the chance to repent for it if you want to take it. But that's just what I believe, nobody has to believe the same just because I do.

And it is a lot more complex than just 'Heaven and Hell'.

[root]

im an atheist but imo, theists drive themselves crazy over religion and shit. i mean, it caused all sort of hysteria.

[Neil]

Logically speaking, No, in other words God made us equally, which means We are all the same created by God, It is the persons preference if he is Gay or not, and whether or not he will go to Heaven or Hell, it's just a matter of breaking the commandments of God, There was not a rule in regards to being gay... Being a good Man (regardless of being gay or not) simply makes it, you will go to heaven and if you are a person who do illegal and punishable act of God then nothing else but you'll go to Hell

[huginnmuninn]

they obviously just go back into the closet to start the cycle all over again

[Antagonist]

Well, according to "God", he loves everyone. But if you sleep with someone of the same sex, you're doomed to hell.

Oh, and if I might add, in the new testament, the original religion was referring to prostitution, not homosexuality. It's been proven.

[nuuk98]

For me there's no Heaven and Hell, so gays go in the same place with all the other

[StoppingTime]

For me there's no Heaven and Hell, so gays go in the same place with all the other

Please don't bump old threads. :locked: