Illegal Immigrants

[ImCoolBeans]

The Obama administration has set up certain requirements that prevent the deportation of young illegal immigrants. If they are under thirty years old, came here before they were sixteen and pose no national security risk, they can get a two year deferral from being deported, allowing them time to become legal.

The DREAM act is also being pushed to be passed by congress. The DREAM act is a bill which would provide undocumented minors (minors who are illegal immigrants) with permanent residency as long as they graduated from a high school in the United States, came to the U.S. as a minor, and have lived in the country for five years continuously. They would be given a six year temporary residency, and in that time they could qualify for permanent residency. To quality and obtain this they would either need to (at minimum) complete two years of a bachelor degree program or receive a degree of higher education from an institution, or serve in the military for a minimum of two years, and if they were discharged from service it must be an honorable discharge.

What are you thoughts/feelings on this? Do you think that this is the right thing to do? Should illegal immigrants be given these opportunities to become legal even if they wrongfully entered the country with intentions of being undocumented, or should they be allowed to since these laws only apply to people who came as minors? I've seen some mixed feelings about this and I'm interested to see what you guys have to say.

[Binatang]

I think that this is the perfect thing to do. Escaping communist countries is something that many people would like to do, and in some cases, they just need to get out as quickly as they can. Applying to leave the said country can be a long process, and has a good chance of being denied too. If they are in a bad situation, they really might need to get out ASAP.
Personally, my family has suffered a lot from the CPC, and we are happy to be in America. None of us came here illegally though, but I think as long as they don't pose any national security risk, it's fine.
These opportunities are great to let them start a new life. However, I think they should be thoroughly interviewed to make sure that they aren't spies or something.

[Mortal Coil]

I think that this is not perfect, but is a good idea. Honestly, this is kind of spitting in the face of all the documented immigrants, because they went through all the trouble to become legal but now those who didn't still are awarded similar chances. However, with minors it is definitely the right thing to do, just the adults that I find a little... not great.

[Kuntaw kid]

Not right because they getting a free ride

[Professional Russian]

I think it the worst thing. Obama is dumber than dogshit for doing this. if it gets passed i will lose all hope in this country,

[Maverick]

Honestly its the right thing to do. Even though he did this for political reasons and I'm not exactly happy he did this without going through the people (Congress) these people should not have to suffer their mistakes of their parents. If my parents dragged me to America when I was young and I learned English and became accustomed to American culture, I wouldn't want to be forced back to the country they came from in which I know nothing about and forced to start all over again.

[StoppingTime]

I think it the worst thing. Obama is dumber than dogshit for doing this. if it gets passed i will lose all hope in this country,

Just listen to yourself here. Honestly, I don't care who the president of the US is. But to talk about a president, or anyone really, in this way is just incredibly disrespectful. Sure, you don't really agree with him. This does not, however, make him "dumber than dogshit."

OT: I have to agree with Ant. If I was brought here illegally as a child, I wouldn't want to suffer my parents mistakes and misjudgments.

[Professional Russian]

Just listen to yourself here. Honestly, I don't care who the president of the US is. But to talk about a president, or anyone really, in this way is just incredibly disrespectful. Sure, you don't really agree with him. This does not, however, make him "dumber than dogshit."

OT: I have to agree with Ant. If I was brought here illegally as a child, I wouldn't want to suffer my parents mistakes and misjudgments.

Ive got other reasons to why hes dumber than dogshit

[StoppingTime]

Ive got other reasons to why hes dumber than dogshit

Regardless of your reasons, do you think that is an appropriate way to address anyone? A president, for that matter?

[Sugaree]

Ive got other reasons to why hes dumber than dogshit

I can only imagine how you treat people off the internet. Whether you like Obama or not, stooping down and calling him dumber than dogshit is just common stupidity on your part.

[Professional Russian]

I can only imagine how you treat people off the internet. Whether you like Obama or not, stooping down and calling him dumber than dogshit is just common stupidity on your part.

Look theres alot of people i respect but obama aint one of them I dont respect either george bush he was dumber than dog shit too. Theres basically only one president that i respect. FDR. He fixed the economy and ran the country pretty well untill he died. I hate most presidents too. I think the government should be controled by the people not one person. And those illegal immigrants take american jobs which make the economy worse because they dont get taxed. I have a reason why i hate obama and illegal immigrants.

[StoppingTime]

Look theres alot of people i respect but obama aint one of them I dont respect either george bush he was dumber than dog shit too.

PR's logic: "I don't like someone/don't agree with someone, therefore, they are dumber than dogshit."
People aren't always going to agree with you. They will make different decision's than you would. That doesn't mean you should have no respect for them. The world isn't all about you.


Theres basically only one president that i respect. FDR. He fixed the economy and ran the country pretty well untill he died.

Off topic: I'm not even going to go here.


I hate most presidents too. I think the government should be controled by the people not one person.

Psssst.... We have the House of Reps. and Congress. The president doesn't just make bills, ans sign them into laws. Do you want to be like the Ancient Greeks? They had a complete democracy, every single person was part of their government, per se. How do you think that will work out?


And those illegal immigrants take american jobs which make the economy worse because they dont get taxed. I have a reason why i hate obama and illegal immigrants.

"Nearly half of the 12 million-plus illegal aliens in America arrived legally with temporary, non-immigrant visas. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimates that a 'substantial' percentage of America’s illegal population is made up of visa overstays — their estimates range from 27 to 57 percent. . ."

So, let's estimate that there are between 12-15 million illegal immigrants in the US right now. There are about 330 million people in America. You do the math. That's not a lot. And, they will eventually, most likely, become US citizens.

Source. (http://www.cis.org/Illegal)

[Professional Russian]

thats 12-15 million lost american jobs which could help fix the economy

[StoppingTime]

Did you pass over that minor detail of them becoming American citizens?

[Professional Russian]

Did you pass over that minor detail of them becoming American citizens?

Lets see they could have been here for more than 10 years working illegally and not getting taxed makeing the economy worse. They shouldent even get the chance they should ust be deported. if our border control cant keep them youll have to kick them out

[StoppingTime]

Lets see they could have been here for more than 10 years working illegally and not getting taxed makeing the economy worse. They shouldent even get the chance they should ust be deported. if our border control cant keep them youll have to kick them out

Right. Kids, who pose absolutely zero threat to security shouldn't have a chance to live in America. Clearly, I've misunderstood this ridiculous statement to make sense.

[Jess]

I think it's the right thing to do

Honestly its the right thing to do. Even though he did this for political reasons and I'm not exactly happy he did this without going through the people (Congress) these people should not have to suffer their mistakes of their parents. If my parents dragged me to America when I was young and I learned English and became accustomed to American culture, I wouldn't want to be forced back to the country they came from in which I know nothing about and forced to start all over again.

basically I agree with everything Ant said.

[ImCoolBeans]

Lets see they could have been here for more than 10 years working illegally and not getting taxed makeing the economy worse. They shouldent even get the chance they should ust be deported. if our border control cant keep them youll have to kick them out

Are you ignoring the fact that they came here as children with their parents and ultimately had no say in their move on purpose? I've moved three times in my life, never had a say or any input in any of those moves. What makes them different in that sense?

These kids moved to a foreign land, scared shitless, and grew up in a totally new culture, went through that country's school systems, hung out with kids in and out of school from that country, pledged allegiance to our flag - possibly against their will - and embodied all that is America. Land of the free and home of the brave baby. Thats what it's all about, right? Then why did we basically force them to become americans when they probably didn't want anything to do with it? I think it's the right thing to do.

Pay attention to the fact that this strictly applies only to people meet a certain standard and that standard is pretty distinct and strict. These people would be further educating themselves to be considered educated individuals, and possibly serving in our military - fighting for our cause - something that they might not even believe in.

Put your bias aside and please look into the parameters of this.

[double r]

Are you ignoring the fact that they came here as children with their parents and ultimately had no say in their move on purpose? I've moved three times in my life, never had a say or any input in any of those moves. What makes them different in that sense?

These kids moved to a foreign land, scared shitless, and grew up in a totally new culture, went through that country's school systems, hung out with kids in and out of school from that country, pledged allegiance to our flag - possibly against their will - and embodied all that is America. Land of the free and home of the brave baby. Thats what it's all about, right? Then why did we basically force them to become americans when they probably didn't want anything to do with it? I think it's the right thing to do.

Pay attention to the fact that this strictly applies only to people meet a certain standard and that standard is pretty distinct and strict. These people would be further educating themselves to be considered educated individuals, and possibly serving in our military - fighting for our cause - something that they might not even believe in.

Put your bias aside and please look into the parameters of this.






Technically if Obama did not pass that bill, those people you are talking about would have to go to immigration and pass the test. But what you said I would not agree because many of the children that came to the US where glad and have had a better life here, plus, children did not have a say because they did not know what was going on to the full extant.
An example, Many refuges for the CCCP( including my family) have been polled and many of those children who came to the US said that they had a better life here then the CCCP. And those children where not forced, they had a choice under the Dept immigration code that if during the interrogation they refused to learn or become a American they can be deported by their will, and I have heard horror stories from my parents and others, of people saying things during those interrogations and being deported which later lead them to their deaths.

So the children have had some say in the immigration process in the US but not many in their parents custody during the trip to the US .

[Korashk]

Lets see they could have been here for more than 10 years working illegally and not getting taxed
You seriously think that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes? They do. Hell, for the most part they probably pay the exact same taxes they would if they were legal citizens.

makeing the economy worse.
Immigration, legal or not, is good for the economy, not the opposite.

They shouldent even get the chance they should ust be deported. if our border control cant keep them youll have to kick them out
Why shouldn't people that want to live in America get to? That's how things used to work and things turned out fine. Open borders is better for everyone.

[Professional Russian]

Open borders is better for everyone.

Oh yyes until terrorist start walking in and bombing the shit out of us

[StoppingTime]

Oh yyes until terrorist start walking in and bombing the shit out of us

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/5/1/129172110965259138.jpg

We would still have security measures.

[Korashk]

Oh yyes until terrorist start walking in and bombing the shit out of us
The people that flew the planes into the twin towers were legal immigrants. Try again.

[Aquila]

Oh yyes until terrorist start walking in and bombing the shit out of us
Dang. You just lost all of your credibility there...

Lets see they could have been here for more than 10 years working illegally and not getting taxed makeing the economy worse. They shouldent even get the chance they should ust be deported. if our border control cant keep them youll have to kick them out
Thats not how the economy works... Actually, since theyre illegal immigrants, theyre probably (not always, but probably) getting paid below minimum wage. Lower wages, more profit for businesses, the economy grows faster. Theyre helping us :P

Are you ignoring the fact that they came here as children with their parents and ultimately had no say in their move on purpose? I've moved three times in my life, never had a say or any input in any of those moves. What makes them different in that sense?

These kids moved to a foreign land, scared shitless, and grew up in a totally new culture, went through that country's school systems, hung out with kids in and out of school from that country, pledged allegiance to our flag - possibly against their will - and embodied all that is America. Land of the free and home of the brave baby. Thats what it's all about, right? Then why did we basically force them to become americans when they probably didn't want anything to do with it? I think it's the right thing to do.

Pay attention to the fact that this strictly applies only to people meet a certain standard and that standard is pretty distinct and strict. These people would be further educating themselves to be considered educated individuals, and possibly serving in our military - fighting for our cause - something that they might not even believe in.

Put your bias aside and please look into the parameters of this.

I see what youre saying here, and it is a valid point, however, the fact of the matter is they are in the US now. I think this bill is in the best interest for them because either
A. They remain too young to make their own choices. Their parents made the decision to come here for whatever reason, and this allows them to remain in the US with their parents who are supporting them, and out of the apparent dangers of their old country.

OR B. they are old enough/able to make their own choices. If they really were opposed to being in the states, they could hypothetically return to their original country, where they would be a legalized citizen. Or go to another country altogether. Cant afford to leave? Then let yourself get deported. I know its not really that simple, but most illegal immigrants dont want to leave.

Granted this bill isnt perfect by any means. It really does undermine our current quota system, and starts to throw our current immigration system off balance, but i do believe it is a great step in helping the underage immigrants. Im sorry, but i dont see 'not wanting to be in the US' as a valid arguement to not passing this bill...

[ImCoolBeans]

Granted this bill isnt perfect by any means. It really does undermine our current quota system, and starts to throw our current immigration system off balance, but i do believe it is a great step in helping the underage immigrants. Im sorry, but i dont see 'not wanting to be in the US' as a valid arguement to not passing this bill...

o.o I'm not opposing it.

Oh yyes until terrorist start walking in and bombing the shit out of us

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19853685.jpg

Come on, man. That's just out of the question in every way. No way to try and support any argument.

[ilovesoccer94]

Personally, Im in favor of this. This is a great opportunity for these students and aslo the United States. Both will benefit from this. Why? Because most illegal students have better grades than those who were born in this country. They know how to value things and hard working. It willbenefit the economy. Like Obama said it is the right thing to do. Positive things will result from this. This nation was made by immigrants whether you like it or you dont.

[double r]

Personally, Im in favor of this. This is a great opportunity for these students and aslo the United States. Both will benefit from this. Why? Because most illegal students have better grades than those who were born in this country. They know how to value things and hard working. It willbenefit the economy. Like Obama said it is the right thing to do. Positive things will result from this. This nation was made by immigrants whether you like it or you dont.
It won't benefit the economy, it will make it worse because those students will take jobs from legals, and leave a job shortage for those legal workers.
And one thing that is wired it that when a parent gets legalized a child is atomically legalized also, but in this case the child is, but the parent isn't.

[Lovely24]

I think they should be sent back. They take our rightful jobs, just another way Obama is trying to screw us, the dumbass, and yes, I have no problem calling him that.

[Korashk]

They take our rightful jobs,
This has been proven wrong time and time again but just for argument's sake; why do you deserve any job more than a qualified illegal immigrant?

[Lovely24]

This has been proven wrong time and time again but just for argument's sake; why do you deserve any job more than a qualified illegal immigrant?

Not saying that I'm more qualified, I'm just saying that if they want our jobs, they have to be last in line. If they're more qualified than me, I'll let em take it. If I'm more qualified, I'll take it. I just think they should be the last in line for jobs, not that they can't have any.

[Nellerin]

We have to have some sort of regulation like this that promotes good citizens coming into the country. People are killed every night in other countries (Mexico) and a good hardworking person does not deserve to live in that fear.

To make things fair we need to make the road to citizenship faster and easier, as some people wait over a year to get in and by then could be killed.

[Professional Russian]

We have to have some sort of regulation like this that promotes good citizens coming into the country. People are killed every night in other countries (Mexico) and a good hardworking person does not deserve to live in that fear.

To make things fair we need to make the road to citizenship faster and easier, as some people wait over a year to get in and by then could be killed.


People are kiled every night here too. Dont make the road to citizen faster and easier thats just stupid. Keep it the way it is. If you dont know the constitution you shouldnt be able to be in this country

[Sugaree]

I think they should be sent back. They take our rightful jobs, just another way Obama is trying to screw us, the dumbass, and yes, I have no problem calling him that.

You have no right to a job. You have the rights to free speech, freedom of religion, and everything in the Bill of Rights. Nowhere, in any federal document, does it say Americans have a right to a job. A job is a privilege, not a right. If you can get a job, good for you. But this attitude of it being a civil right is incredibly arrogant and needs to stop.

if they want our jobs, they have to be last in line.

What makes you more special over a documented immigrant? If you're going to act superior to someone who most likely waited four or five years to get into the country, don't even bother trying to find a job.

To make things fair we need to make the road to citizenship faster and easier, as some people wait over a year to get in and by then could be killed.

Unfortunately...

People are kiled every night here too. Dont make the road to citizen faster and easier thats just stupid. Keep it the way it is. If you dont know the constitution you shouldnt be able to be in this country

You do know people sometimes wait four or five years just to allowed into this country, right? What gives you the special position to keep them where they are? There's plenty of immigrants from Mexico who come here legally and wait almost an entire decade just to move here. By then, they could have easily jumped the border. Many illegal immigrants also establish a grass roots system here in the United States, and some of them love being here. You act like anyone who immigrates here, legally or otherwise, is a terrorist. Get over yourself, damn it, and stop being so xenophobic of people who simply want a better life.

[Cicero]

I hate illegal immigration, I think that everyone who is an illegal immigrant should be deported. I don't care if it's a 5 year old who's an illegal immigrant, even they should be deported. I also strongly believe that their should be more of a consequence for 2nd time offenders, maybe like, force them to join the military for the first 3 years and then they can become legal citizens. I have very strong opinions about it, if we just keep giving them back to their country of origin, they will just come back over and over again. We are wasting our money, our gas, and our time always sending them back. If they keep coming back, they should be put in a prison, like near the border, far far out near the border. But like, get no special treatment. I have even stronger opinions but I won't say :D haha


Oh, and maybe for the first 5 years, newly documented immigrants should be taxed a little more money (so if normal citizens are taxed 15% of total income, newly documented immigrants should be taxed 20-25% of total income).

They are taking our rightful jobs also! American citizens deserve jobs and illegal immigrants deserve nothing in this country. Who gives a fuck if they're qualified. They are braking the law by just stepping foot in this country. They are also not even paying taxes, because no one knows that they even exist. In order to be apart of America you should be forced to be a citizen. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING IN AMERICA, whether its food, education, or jobs, they deserve nothing. If your caught as an illegal immigrant they should never again be deserved citizenship into the USA. We should take illegal immigration seriously, so many dumbass Americans believe "Oh, your an illegal immigrant? How nice. You should have a job in America, you should have free healthcare in America, and you know what. You get all that, without paying your fair share of taxes! Congrats!" I would rather give all my money to the lazy ass people on the streets, than to an illegal immigrant. I would rather have my family go poor, than have illegal immigrants stay in this country for free. Illegal immiggrants deserve the harshest punishment that state they are staying at has.

*sarcasm* Oh and since "open borders is better for everyone" we should give every illegal immigrant a $1,000 to start off! You know what, the wealthy should also pay 75% of the taxes to America so it doesn't go into much more debt! Everyone should make the same amount of money, a burger king worker deserves to make as much as a doctor, an illegal immigrant should run for president! Who gives a shit about the wealthy already paying a lot of the taxes so illegal immigrants can live here, and lazy ass people on the streets can receive complimentary checks from the government. *sarcasm* No matter what disability someone has, the government shouldn't get involved, the government should say, oh sorry, you have a disability, how is it our fault? So you shouldn't get payed from the government. No one should get payed by the government for any disability that's the families job, not the government. If the government caused that person to have a disability, then they should pay for that persons disability, if it's because the mother was a dumbass and decided to drink while pregnant the government should only feel bad, but not give that person any money. That's what charities are for. Not the government. The government should only care about politics, and not ram their heads in the economy. The government should let the economy run its course and not pay billions of dollars to help it.

[Lovely24]

You have no right to a job. You have the rights to free speech, freedom of religion, and everything in the Bill of Rights. Nowhere, in any federal document, does it say Americans have a right to a job. A job is a privilege, not a right. If you can get a job, good for you. But this attitude of it being a civil right is incredibly arrogant and needs to stop.



What makes you more special over a documented immigrant? If you're going to act superior to someone who most likely waited four or five years to get into the country, don't even bother trying to find a job.



Unfortunately...



You do know people sometimes wait four or five years just to allowed into this country, right? What gives you the special position to keep them where they are? There's plenty of immigrants from Mexico who come here legally and wait almost an entire decade just to move here. By then, they could have easily jumped the border. Many illegal immigrants also establish a grass roots system here in the United States, and some of them love being here. You act like anyone who immigrates here, legally or otherwise, is a terrorist. Get over yourself, damn it, and stop being so xenophobic of people who simply want a better life.

Um, I was talking about illegals, hence the forum title. I have no problem with documented immigrants, none. Illegals, don't have a right to a job here, and I will have precedence over them when applying for a job. Again, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH DOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

[Lovely24]

I hate illegal immigration, I think that everyone who is an illegal immigrant should be deported. I don't care if it's a 5 year old who's an illegal immigrant, even they should be deported. I also strongly believe that their should be more of a consequence for 2nd time offenders, maybe like, force them to join the military for the first 3 years and then they can become legal citizens. I have very strong opinions about it, if we just keep giving them back to their country of origin, they will just come back over and over again. We are wasting our money, our gas, and our time always sending them back. If they keep coming back, they should be put in a prison, like near the border, far far out near the border. But like, get no special treatment. I have even stronger opinions but I won't say :D haha


Oh, and maybe for the first 5 years, newly documented immigrants should be taxed a little more money (so if normal citizens are taxed 15% of total income, newly documented immigrants should be taxed 20-25% of total income).

They are taking our rightful jobs also! American citizens deserve jobs and illegal immigrants deserve nothing in this country. Who gives a fuck if they're qualified. They are braking the law by just stepping foot in this country. They are also not even paying taxes, because no one knows that they even exist. In order to be apart of America you should be forced to be a citizen. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING IN AMERICA, whether its food, education, or jobs, they deserve nothing. If your caught as an illegal immigrant they should never again be deserved citizenship into the USA. We should take illegal immigration seriously, so many dumbass Americans believe "Oh, your an illegal immigrant? How nice. You should have a job in America, you should have free healthcare in America, and you know what. You get all that, without paying your fair share of taxes! Congrats!" I would rather give all my money to the lazy ass people on the streets, than to an illegal immigrant. I would rather have my family go poor, than have illegal immigrants stay in this country for free. Illegal immiggrants deserve the harshest punishment that state they are staying at has.

*sarcasm* Oh and since "open borders is better for everyone" we should give every illegal immigrant a $1,000 to start off! You know what, the wealthy should also pay 75% of the taxes to America so it doesn't go into much more debt! Everyone should make the same amount of money, a burger king worker deserves to make as much as a doctor, an illegal immigrant should run for president! Who gives a shit about the wealthy already paying a lot of the taxes so illegal immigrants can live here, and lazy ass people on the streets can receive complimentary checks from the government. *sarcasm* No matter what disability someone has, the government shouldn't get involved, the government should say, oh sorry, you have a disability, how is it our fault? So you shouldn't get payed from the government. No one should get payed by the government for any disability that's the families job, not the government. If the government caused that person to have a disability, then they should pay for that persons disability, if it's because the mother was a dumbass and decided to drink while pregnant the government should only feel bad, but not give that person any money. That's what charities are for. Not the government. The government should only care about politics, and not ram their heads in the economy. The government should let the economy run its course and not pay billions of dollars to help it.

I agree with the first half, some of the disability, but other than that, you sound like a crack addict. No offense, but the government needs to intervene on our economy because then banks would screw us all over, just like they did thanks to the Clinton administration, not the bush admin. there are things the government can and can't get involved in, but the economy IS one of them.

[Lovely24]

Um, I was talking about illegals, hence the forum title. I have no problem with documented immigrants, none. Illegals, don't have a right to a job here, and I will have precedence over them when applying for a job. Again, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH DOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

PS, admin, I know I'm not allowed to double post, may you please merge them.

[Cicero]

I agree with the first half, some of the disability, but other than that, you sound like a crack addict. No offense, but the government needs to intervene on our economy because then banks would screw us all over, just like they did thanks to the Clinton administration, not the bush admin. there are things the government can and can't get involved in, but the economy IS one of them.
They need to set guidelines for banks, but not try to save the economy.

[LatinaVivit]

If these kids want to stay here and get an education, that's fine; however, they should get it for free. They should pay that same amount as other people would in taxes. At least that way we can afford it and they aren't stealing from us.

[EvilB]

That is so much BS our economy is crap. They should be able to stay if they can pay!

[Cicero]

That is so much BS our economy is crap. They should be able to stay if they can pay!

They should be able to stay and pay while being a citizen.

[StoppingTime]

I hate illegal immigration, I think that everyone who is an illegal immigrant should be deported. I don't care if it's a 5 year old who's an illegal immigrant, even they should be deported.

Good to know that we have strong youth with morals these days. Read over what you just said. Do you think that's fair? A child, who doesn't even know what's going on, who is only here because his parents want to give him a chance in life.


I also strongly believe that their should be more of a consequence for 2nd time offenders, maybe like, force them to join the military for the first 3 years and then they can become legal citizens.

Yes, that definitely will solve the problem. Ship them off to fight wars they don't want to fight. That'll really get them going. Not to mention that will only cause more trouble for us, spending the time, money, equipment, etc... to train them. It is a useless solution to something.


I have very strong opinions about it, if we just keep giving them back to their country of origin, they will just come back over and over again. We are wasting our money, our gas, and our time always sending them back. If they keep coming back, they should be put in a prison, like near the border, far far out near the border. But like, get no special treatment. I have even stronger opinions but I won't say :D haha

No, really, I'd like to hear your "stronger opinions." Should we just shoot them on the spot? That'd stop them dead in their tracks, if you know what I'm saying here, dudebroskiman. :yeah::yeah::yeah: How about a firing squad for the families, all in one deal, I like it.


Oh, and maybe for the first 5 years, newly documented immigrants should be taxed a little more money (so if normal citizens are taxed 15% of total income, newly documented immigrants should be taxed 20-25% of total income).

Why not make their lives even more a living hell? The chances of them being able to support themselves, since most immigrants start with entry level jobs, and then paying a quarter of it back to the government, sounds productive.


They are taking our rightful jobs also! American citizens deserve jobs and illegal immigrants deserve nothing in this country.

If you refer back to one of my other posts, you'd realize that the immigrants are helping us. They are filling the jobs that "rightful American citizens" as you would say, don't want. They are helping us.


Who gives a fuck if they're qualified.

Right right right right. So, even if they are qualified, I'd rather have someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing, but since they are a "true American citizen" they are automatically better.


They are braking the law by just stepping foot in this country. They are also not even paying taxes, because no one knows that they even exist.

You are wrong. This argument doesn't work, mostly because you have no bases or sources for it.


In order to be apart of America you should be forced to be a citizen. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING IN AMERICA, whether its food, education, or jobs, they deserve nothing.

I'm going to adress to things here.
First, you. You sound like a stuck up princess on a pedestal. Get off of it, and walk around with the rest of us.
Second, the "argument" you provided. Many of the immigrants try to become citizens, but since the system is so flawed, they have no choice.
And, you would rather them die than be here? Really?


If your caught as an illegal immigrant they should never again be deserved citizenship into the USA. We should take illegal immigration seriously, so many dumbass Americans believe "Oh, your an illegal immigrant? How nice. You should have a job in America, you should have free healthcare in America, and you know what. You get all that, without paying your fair share of taxes! Congrats!"

Let's be like North Korea. Good job.
As a bonus, why don't you check this (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/magazine/my-life-as-an-undocumented-immigrant.html?pagewanted=all) out, if you have time between buying yourself 350 dollar Gucci belts.


I would rather give all my money to the lazy ass people on the streets, than to an illegal immigrant. I would rather have my family go poor, than have illegal immigrants stay in this country for free. Illegal immiggrants deserve the harshest punishment that state they are staying at has.

Screw rapists, murderers, pedophiles, etc... Illegal immigrants man, they're the ones who are taking the country down.


*sarcasm* Oh and since "open borders is better for everyone" we should give every illegal immigrant a $1,000 to start off! You know what, the wealthy should also pay 75% of the taxes to America so it doesn't go into much more debt! Everyone should make the same amount of money, a burger king worker deserves to make as much as a doctor, an illegal immigrant should run for president! Who gives a shit about the wealthy already paying a lot of the taxes so illegal immigrants can live here, and lazy ass people on the streets can receive complimentary checks from the government.

Da fuq?
No seriously, what was that?
Actually though, explain this please. And don't write *sarcasm.* It's incredibly annoying.


No matter what disability someone has, the government shouldn't get involved, the government should say, oh sorry, you have a disability, how is it our fault? So you shouldn't get payed from the government.

Then why do we have a government? To sit and look pretty? If someone is in a car accident, let's say, and they receive a severe concussion. What should they after they leave the hospital? Get right back to work?


No one should get payed by the government for any disability that's the families job, not the government. If the government caused that person to have a disability, then they should pay for that persons disability, if it's because the mother was a dumbass and decided to drink while pregnant the government should only feel bad, but not give that person any money. That's what charities are for. Not the government. The government should only care about politics, and not ram their heads in the economy. The government should let the economy run its course and not pay billions of dollars to help it.

I don't even feel like I can address this.

[Cicero]

Good to know that we have strong youth with morals these days. Read over what you just said. Do you think that's fair? A child, who doesn't even know what's going on, who is only here because his parents want to give him a chance in life.



Yes, that definitely will solve the problem. Ship them off to fight wars they don't want to fight. That'll really get them going. Not to mention that will only cause more trouble for us, spending the time, money, equipment, etc... to train them. It is a useless solution to something.



No, really, I'd like to hear your "stronger opinions." Should we just shoot them on the spot? That'd stop them dead in their tracks, if you know what I'm saying here, dudebroskiman. :yeah::yeah::yeah: How about a firing squad for the families, all in one deal, I like it.



Why not make their lives even more a living hell? The chances of them being able to support themselves, since most immigrants start with entry level jobs, and then paying a quarter of it back to the government, sounds productive.



If you refer back to one of my other posts, you'd realize that the immigrants are helping us. They are filling the jobs that "rightful American citizens" as you would say, don't want. They are helping us.



Right right right right. So, even if they are qualified, I'd rather have someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing, but since they are a "true American citizen" they are automatically better.



You are wrong. This argument doesn't work, mostly because you have no bases or sources for it.



I'm going to adress to things here.
First, you. You sound like a stuck up princess on a pedestal. Get off of it, and walk around with the rest of us.
Second, the "argument" you provided. Many of the immigrants try to become citizens, but since the system is so flawed, they have no choice.
And, you would rather them die than be here? Really?



Let's be like North Korea. Good job.
As a bonus, why don't you check this (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/magazine/my-life-as-an-undocumented-immigrant.html?pagewanted=all) out, if you have time between buying yourself 350 dollar Gucci belts.



Screw rapists, murderers, pedophiles, etc... Illegal immigrants man, they're the ones who are taking the country down.



Da fuq?
No seriously, what was that?
Actually though, explain this please. And don't write *sarcasm.* It's incredibly annoying.



Then why do we have a government? To sit and look pretty? If someone is in a car accident, let's say, and they receive a severe concussion. What should they after they leave the hospital? Get right back to work?



I don't even feel like I can address this.

Well if they wanna be apart of this country so much they should go to the military for a certain amount of years. To prove their loyalty to the US.

I still will not say what I believe, nor will I say what you said is correct or incorrect.

It's not the governments problem, they should pay higher taxes, the wealthy already payes a lot of the taxes, especially when their aren't that many wealthy people in the US, most everyone makes below $100,000. If we tax the wealthy, then businesses will be lost and jobs will be lost. So taxing the immigrants won't effect anyone else.

A true American citizen is better, they aren't braking the law when they step foot illegally in the US.

I'm talking about illegal immigrants, not immigrants. Well they are breaking the law, aren't they? Murderers get the electric chair, because they broke the law. So why should we provide illegal immigrants jobs and food and everything they want, when they aren't doing their part for America, and paying their fair share in taxes.

Me getting nice clothing has nothing to do with this argument, so what's the point of bringing it up? Many people have iPhone 4S's that are worth $600.00, so should you throw that in their faces?

Since when does murderers, Pedos, and rapist bring our country down? They have nothing to do with illegal immigration, illegal immigrants is stealing money from America. The murderers and what not are being takin care of, sometimes by the death penalty. Oh, and just so you know, a lot of the gangs out there are illegal immigrants.

I was being sarcastic, because if we should open the borders. We should make the illegal immigrants lives even easier by doing a whole bunch of other stuff for them. There was a show a week ago, that said in 20-30 years, robots will be doing a lot of the jobs that people are doing today. So good news, people can sit further on their lazy asses! More people can get the easy life illegal immigrants have from not paying taxes.

It's not the governments responsibility that someone didn't know how to drive. A government is their to have a set of rules and laws for the people to abide, or else it would be complete chaos. So you believe the government only exists to pay peoples bills? Anyone with disabilities can have a job, a garbage truck driver, a janitor, a waiter, a mailman, a manufacturers line. The government is here to defend the people, to set rules and laws, and to represent the nation toward other nations. Not to go "Oh you got in a car accident with a drunk driver? Let me pay that $30,000.00 bill, who cares that we might have to do that hundreds of millions of times a year. As long as you, one person is alright. Even though we're already in $15,000,000,000,000.00 in debt and even more." If it was the governments fault for anything they should compensate that family, if it wasn't the governments fault. Not their responsibility, the only responsibility is to clear the mess so their isn't a traffic jam. It's comparable to owning a restaurant, if there are 25 employees and 4 of them are making a bad name for that restaurant. They should be fired, it doesn't matter if they will go on the streets , because saving those 4 people isn't worth having the 21 others losing their job. So basically, why should the government pay for a few million peoples bills, when all their doing is sending the country more into debt?

(oh and with the robot thing, robots then, will be able to do the jobs that American citizens won't do. Also, they said that the robots will be starting off at $1 million but will lower in price. Within maybe 10 years of them already being out, price should drop by half, so big corporations could just hire a few robots, that work for free :D id rather have a worker that works for free, when I own my business')

[StoppingTime]

Well if they wanna be apart of this country so much they should go to the military for a certain amount of years. To prove their loyalty to the US.

Being forced to do something ≠loyalty.


I still will not say what I believe, nor will I say what you said is correct or incorrect.

Fine, but realize that I'm assuming it'll be worse than what you've already mentioned.



It's not the governments problem, they should pay higher taxes, the wealthy already payes a lot of the taxes, especially when their aren't that many wealthy people in the US, most everyone makes below $100,000. If we tax the wealthy, then businesses will be lost and jobs will be lost.

When you bring this up, you actually have to define the word, "wealthy." According to Pres. Obama, someone who is wealthy is someone who earns more than $250,000 a year. However, they may not be able to be, or act "rich"
(http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/04/news/economy/colvin_rich.fortune/index.htm)
The flaw in that definition of rich is that plenty of families making $250,000 a year don't feel rich. They probably see themselves as upper middle class, especially if they live in blue-state coastal cities and suburbs. An income of $250,000 is a lot richer in Abilene, Texas, than in New York's Nassau County, where it takes $430,000 to enjoy a similar quality of life, according to bankrate.com. So let's call them the "working rich."



So taxing the immigrants won't effect anyone else.

Right, except the immigrants......


A true American citizen is better, they aren't braking the law when they step foot illegally in the US.

Once again, step off your pedestal. All Americans are not better than all illegal immigrants.


I'm talking about illegal immigrants, not immigrants. Well they are breaking the law, aren't they? Murderers get the electric chair,

I truly hope you don't still think they use the electric chair.


So why should we provide illegal immigrants jobs and food and everything they want, when they aren't doing their part for America, and paying their fair share in taxes.

We aren't exactly giving them these things for free. They are working, just like everyone else.

And as for your taxes argument:
IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security. Most undocumented immigrants pay sales, federal and state income taxes. In addition they also spend millions per year which support US and helps create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller report in 2006 that the 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas alone added almost $18 billion to the state's budget, and paid $1.2 billion in state services they used.


Me getting nice clothing has nothing to do with this argument, so what's the point of bringing it up? Many people have iPhone 4S's that are worth $600.00, so should you throw that in their faces?

I was simply comparing the fact that you believe that people who try extremely hard to earn a living, and have a good life deserve nothing, while you can have whatever you want because you are an American citizen.


Since when does murderers, Pedos, and rapist bring our country down? They have nothing to do with illegal immigration, illegal immigrants is stealing money from America. The murderers and what not are being takin care of, sometimes by the death penalty. Oh, and just so you know, a lot of the gangs out there are illegal immigrants.

I think we've already covered the fact that they aren't stealing billions from Americans.


I was being sarcastic, because if we should open the borders. We should make the illegal immigrants lives even easier by doing a whole bunch of other stuff for them. There was a show a week ago, that said in 30-50 years, robots will be doing a lot of the jobs that people are doing today. So good news, people can sit further on their lazy asses! More people can get the easy life illegal immigrants have from not paying taxes.

Once again, they pay taxes!!!!


It's not the governments responsibility that someone didn't know how to drive. A government is their to have a set of rules and laws for the people to abide, or else it would be complete chaos. So you believe the government only exists to pay peoples bills? Anyone with disabilities can have a job, a garbage truck driver, a janitor, a waiter, a mailman, a manufacturers line. The government is here to defend the people, to set rules and laws, and to represent the nation toward other nations. Not to go "Oh you got in a car accident with a drunk driver? Let me pay that $30,000.00 bill, who cares that we might have to do that hundreds of millions of times a year. As long as you, one person is alright. Even though we're already in $15,000,000,000,000.00 in debt and even more." If it was the governments fault for anything they should compensate that family, if it wasn't the governments fault. Not their responsibility, the only responsibility is to clear the mess so their isn't a traffic jam. It's comparable to owning a restaurant, if there are 25 employees and 4 of them are making a bad name for that restaurant. They should be fired, it doesn't matter if they will go on the streets , because saving those 4 people isn't worth having the 21 others losing their job. So basically, why should the government pay for a few million peoples bills, when all their doing is sending the country more into debt?

Regardless of the fact that this paragraph is filled with lies and stereotypical thoughts, it is completely off topic.


Source. (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-immigration.pdf)
Source. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Undocumented_Taxpayer s)
Source. (http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/undocumented.pdf)

[Cicero]

I was simply comparing the fact that you believe that people who try extremely hard to earn a living, and have a good life deserve nothing, while you can have whatever you want because you are an American citizen.

I believe that American citizens deserve more benefits like insurances privileges. While illegal immigrants don't deserve insurances. Once they become legal I don't care what they do.
But I guess you have changed a few opinions of what I think.

[shyguy21]

I believe that American citizens deserve more benefits like insurances privileges. While illegal immigrants don't deserve insurances. Once they become legal I don't care what they do.
But I guess you have changed a few opinions of what I think.

I hope you've reviewed what you've said, because you come across sounding REALLY ignorant and like you have an undeserved feeling of accomplishment. And I hope you were kidding about this
I hate illegal immigration, I think that everyone who is an illegal immigrant should be deported. I don't care if it's a 5 year old who's an illegal immigrant, even they should be deported. I also strongly believe that their should be more of a consequence for 2nd time offenders, maybe like, force them to join the military for the first 3 years and then they can become legal citizens. I have very strong opinions about it, if we just keep giving them back to their country of origin, they will just come back over and over again. We are wasting our money, our gas, and our time always sending them back. If they keep coming back, they should be put in a prison, like near the border, far far out near the border. But like, get no special treatment.


ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING IN AMERICA, whether its food, education, or jobs, they deserve nothing. If your caught as an illegal immigrant they should never again be deserved citizenship into the USA. Illegal immiggrants deserve the harshest punishment that state they are staying at has.
:what:

You do realize its not like they're terrorists, right? They're looking for a better life, and since you and I were handed one at birth, we'll probably never need to get away from things like this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadereyta_Jim%C3%A9nez_massacre) You're in need of empathy, my friend.

[risener]

"THEY TOOK 'ER JERBS!!!" (Not really)

[Thunduhbuhlt]

Ive got other reasons to why hes dumber than dogshit

Maybe I think Bush was dumber than dogshit, but I sure as hell am not gonna show that much disrespect to a former president, no matter how horrible he may be.

OP: I think that if you are brought here and raised here from the time you are a child you shouldn't be deported, how is it your fault that you are here and if you aren't committing crimes or doing bad things then why should the government care?

[AZCowboy]

Living in Southern Arizona, less than 50 miles from the Mexican Border, I think this is the wrong thing for Obama to do. We have illegals constantly crossing our Ranch, and the Border Patrol cannot seem to stop them, regardless of how hard they try. Being in a country, specifically the United States, without legal permission is ILLEGAL. Sneaking into a country and living there without legal permission is ILLEGAL. All according to the laws of the United States of America. Can you explain to me how its absolutely wrong to call someone here without a Green Card a criminal, when it is clearly written in the United States Immigration laws that IS A CRIMINAL ACT? Trying to live in this country to have a better life IS NOT a good enough answer for going against the law. There are LEGAL Citizens of this Country and Permanent Residents who are LEGAL Green Card Holders who are trying to have a better life, yet watch handout after handout go to someone who is not even a legal Citizen of this Country. They are nothing but a bunch of criminals and that idiot Obama is a criminal too for encouraging them to break the law, which in itself, is a criminal act. ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL, and I don't understand why some of you think it is ok to break the law.

Oh and also, if you aren't from the United States and you don't live here, then you have no right to criticize what we think of the President of OUR Country. We, US Citizens, vote for the President, therefore we have the right to criticize him. Non-Americans have no right to get involved in whether it's wrong or right to criticize the President. Obama is the worst President the United States has ever had in regards to his policies. He has done nothing good whatsoever for this Country. In no way does NOBAMA deserve a second term in office. He is a moron who would rather kiss ass to and cares more about the Muslim World and the Illegal Immigrants than he does his own countrymen. By allowing these criminals (and that is what they are, criminals, nothing more, nothing less) to stay in our Country, that idiot Obama has turned his back on 14 million plus unemployed LEGAL Americans in favor of 800,000 ILLEGAL criminals, and that is totally unacceptable.

[AZCowboy]

they are taking our rightful jobs also! American citizens deserve jobs and illegal immigrants deserve nothing in this country. Who gives a fuck if they're qualified. They are braking the law by just stepping foot in this country. They are also not even paying taxes, because no one knows that they even exist. In order to be apart of america you should be forced to be a citizen. Illegal immigrants don't deserve anything in america, whether its food, education, or jobs, they deserve nothing. If your caught as an illegal immigrant they should never again be deserved citizenship into the usa. We should take illegal immigration seriously, so many dumbass americans believe "oh, your an illegal immigrant? How nice. You should have a job in america, you should have free healthcare in america, and you know what. You get all that, without paying your fair share of taxes! Congrats!" i would rather give all my money to the lazy ass people on the streets, than to an illegal immigrant. I would rather have my family go poor, than have illegal immigrants stay in this country for free. Illegal immiggrants deserve the harshest punishment that state they are staying at has.

i agree, 100 percent :d

[AZCowboy]

I can only imagine how you treat people off the internet. Whether you like Obama or not, stooping down and calling him dumber than dogshit is just common stupidity on your part.

Obama is dumber than dog shit, and I have absolutely no problem saying that, nor do I care what anyone thinks of me saying that either.

[Lanx]

Living in Southern Arizona, less than 50 miles from the Mexican Border, I think this is the wrong thing for Obama to do. We have illegals constantly crossing our Ranch, and the Border Patrol cannot seem to stop them, regardless of how hard they try. Being in a country, specifically the United States, without legal permission is ILLEGAL. Sneaking into a country and living there without legal permission is ILLEGAL. All according to the laws of the United States of America. Can you explain to me how its absolutely wrong to call someone here without a Green Card a criminal, when it is clearly written in the United States Immigration laws that IS A CRIMINAL ACT? Trying to live in this country to have a better life IS NOT a good enough answer for going against the law. There are LEGAL Citizens of this Country and Permanent Residents who are LEGAL Green Card Holders who are trying to have a better life, yet watch handout after handout go to someone who is not even a legal Citizen of this Country. They are nothing but a bunch of criminals and that idiot Obama is a criminal too for encouraging them to break the law, which in itself, is a criminal act. ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL, and I don't understand why some of you think it is ok to break the law.

Oh and also, if you aren't from the United States and you don't live here, then you have no right to criticize what we think of the President of OUR Country. We, US Citizens, vote for the President, therefore we have the right to criticize him. Non-Americans have no right to get involved in whether it's wrong or right to criticize the President. Obama is the worst President the United States has ever had in regards to his policies. He has done nothing good whatsoever for this Country. In no way does NOBAMA deserve a second term in office. He is a moron who would rather kiss ass to and cares more about the Muslim World and the Illegal Immigrants than he does his own countrymen. By allowing these criminals (and that is what they are, criminals, nothing more, nothing less) to stay in our Country, that idiot Obama has turned his back on 14 million plus unemployed LEGAL Americans in favor of 800,000 ILLEGAL criminals, and that is totally unacceptable.

Excellent post man! People just can't seem to see that being here illegally is a fucking crime, regardless of the circumstances. Illegals need to fucking get in line and wait for a Green Card like everyone else. Oh, and I don't want to here "do you know how hard it is to get a Green Card?" Who the fuck cares. SO you have to wait a little while, boo hoo. It's the law! I also don't care how talented someone is, if they are here in our country illegally, then they are a criminal.

[Cicero]

Obama is dumber than dog shit, and I have absolutely no problem saying that, nor do I care what anyone thinks of me saying that either.

i agree, 100 percent :d

Excellent post man! People just can't seem to see that being here illegally is a fucking crime, regardless of the circumstances. Illegals need to fucking get in line and wait for a Green Card like everyone else. Oh, and I don't want to here "do you know how hard it is to get a Green Card?" Who the fuck cares. SO you have to wait a little while, boo hoo. It's the law! I also don't care how talented someone is, if they are here in our country illegally, then they are a criminal.


:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: I agree


I'm sure he doesn't wanna go against his own people, the Arab people. He being Arab himself probably feels like he should defend the Muslim faith. His name says it itself, that he's Muslim, Barrack Hussain Obama. But tbh if their was an Italian president I'd defend that guy just for being Italian haha :D

This is also to other posts.

I don't give a shit if the illegal immigrants had to learn our ways, boohoo they came to this country and had to show respect and pledge allegiance to the flag. Ya, life for them sucks, they had to come to a new country and they had to steal an American job, yet in return they have to know the worlds biggest language and say the pledge, which is showing respect for our country. Also, I believe all immigrants should know ENGLISH. I hate how schools force us to learn Spanish, I really don't care bout learning Spanish cause I don't need it, and I don't wanna learn it. Instead we should learn Latin, that's useful. Not just Spanish. Latin connects you with English, Italian, French, and Spanish.

[StoppingTime]

Living in Southern Arizona, less than 50 miles from the Mexican Border, I think this is the wrong thing for Obama to do. We have illegals constantly crossing our Ranch, and the Border Patrol cannot seem to stop them, regardless of how hard they try. Being in a country, specifically the United States, without legal permission is ILLEGAL. Sneaking into a country and living there without legal permission is ILLEGAL.

So, don't you think the system could be changed? Maybe that would help. But until then, I don't see the problem with letting students stay here until they can have jobs.


All according to the laws of the United States of America. Can you explain to me how its absolutely wrong to call someone here without a Green Card a criminal, when it is clearly written in the United States Immigration laws that IS A CRIMINAL ACT?

I never said that it wasn't always a criminal act. Regardless, just because it says that doesn't make the people trying to get in horrible and worthless.


Trying to live in this country to have a better life IS NOT a good enough answer for going against the law.

How about living in this country to they can have a life at all? Is that too selfish for them? You know, since this bill would be opening our borders completely and all. It isn't like we are only going to be allowing successful students to stay or anything ridiculous like that.....


There are LEGAL Citizens of this Country and Permanent Residents who are LEGAL Green Card Holders who are trying to have a better life, yet watch handout after handout go to someone who is not even a legal Citizen of this Country.

Why is every citizen of the US better than every immigrant? Just because? That logic won't get you too far.


They are nothing but a bunch of criminals and that idiot Obama is a criminal too for encouraging them to break the law, which in itself, is a criminal act. ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL, and I don't understand why some of you think it is ok to break the law.

Other than the fact that this would make what I said previously legal. And honestly, I don't care if there are undocumented immigrants living here who have successful jobs, families, and lives. Not even a little bit.


Oh and also, if you aren't from the United States and you don't live here, then you have no right to criticize what we think of the President of OUR Country.
We, US Citizens, vote for the President, therefore we have the right to criticize him. Non-Americans have no right to get involved in whether it's wrong or right to criticize the President.

I'm not exactly sure who you are referring to. If it's me: I live in the US. If it is anyone who posted and don't live in the US, they have a right to tell you whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't listen, or maybe, rethink your opinions, but I don't see that happening.


Obama is the worst President the United States has ever had in regards to his policies. He has done nothing good whatsoever for this Country. In no way does NOBAMA deserve a second term in office. He is a moron who would rather kiss ass to and cares more about the Muslim World and the Illegal Immigrants than he does his own countrymen. By allowing these criminals (and that is what they are, criminals, nothing more, nothing less) to stay in our Country, that idiot Obama has turned his back on 14 million plus unemployed LEGAL Americans in favor of 800,000 ILLEGAL criminals, and that is totally unacceptable.

Then maybe all those "legal immigrants who are so much better than everyone else" should stop protesting and actually start looking for jobs. The undocumented immigrants take the jobs that "the holy Americans" don't want, and they do a good job, and they, for the majority, pay taxes. So once again, they help.

Obama is dumber than dog shit, and I have absolutely no problem saying that, nor do I care what anyone thinks of me saying that either.

Then maybe you should, once again, step off your pedestal. (I've had to say that phrase a lot in this thread...)
Think about what he has to go through. He's there to serve a country, not just you.

Excellent post man! People just can't seem to see that being here illegally is a fucking crime, regardless of the circumstances. Illegals need to fucking get in line and wait for a Green Card like everyone else. Oh, and I don't want to here "do you know how hard it is to get a Green Card?" Who the fuck cares. SO you have to wait a little while, boo hoo. It's the law! I also don't care how talented someone is, if they are here in our country illegally, then they are a criminal.

I think the people who are living in extreme poverty in Mexico and Latin America care a little. And you're right, regardless, we should kill/deport them. That seems like a good idea. Never give anyone a chance except the "good 'wittle boys and girls who waited in a line" for maybe a decade. Wake up.

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: I agree

http://0.tqn.com/d/webtrends/1/0/K/A/-/-/raisins.jpg


I'm sure he doesn't wanna go against his own people, the Arab people.

Neither Obama nor Obama Sr. practiced Islam. That was his grandfather. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.)


He being Arab himself probably feels like he should defend the Muslim faith. His name says it itself, that he's Muslim, Barrack Hussain Obama. But tbh if their was an Italian president I'd defend that guy just for being Italian haha :D

His name was adopted by his grandfather, which his father took, which was given to him. It doesn't make him a practicing Muslim, or one at all.


---
And tbh, Muslims and Arabs are completely different. haha. :D


I don't give a shit if the illegal immigrants had to learn our ways, boohoo they came to this country and had to show respect and pledge allegiance to the flag.

I hate the pledge. It is a useless poem that nobody should have to recite every morning at school.


Ya, life for them sucks, they had to come to a new country and they had to steal an American job,

First of all, summarizing the life of an immigrant as "life for them sucks," usually is an understatement. Go do some research (not at Foxnews.com) about undocumented immigrants. See where and what they are coming from.a
Secondly, they aren't stealing an American job. They are getting paid, and paying taxes just like an American citizen would.


yet in return they have to know the worlds biggest language and say the pledge, which is showing respect for our country.

No, the pledge, nor learning English doesn't show respect to our country.
the Pledge- I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I interpret this as- a nice little poem/song about America. Absolutely nothing more!
English- How does learning English show respect to this country? Are we the only ones who speak it?


Also, I believe all immigrants should know ENGLISH. I hate how schools force us to learn Spanish, I really don't care bout learning Spanish cause I don't need it, and I don't wanna learn it. Instead we should learn Latin, that's useful. Not just Spanish. Latin connects you with English, Italian, French, and Spanish.

Yes, learning Latin, a language not only dead, but completely unspeakable is much more useful than learning languages still in use today.

[shyguy21]

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: I agree


I'm sure he doesn't wanna go against his own people, the Arab people. He being Arab himself probably feels like he should defend the Muslim faith. His name says it itself, that he's Muslim, Barrack Hussain Obama. But tbh if their was an Italian president I'd defend that guy just for being Italian haha :D

*Hussein, and you don't have to be an Arab to be a Muslim, neither do you have to be a Muslim to be an Arab. Also, what do Muslims and Arabs have to do with illegal immigrants?


I don't give a shit if the illegal immigrants had to learn our ways, boohoo they came to this country and had to show respect and pledge allegiance to the flag. Ya, life for them sucks, they had to come to a new country and they had to steal an American job,
Again, grow some empathy.

yet in return they have to know the worlds biggest language. Also, I believe all immigrants should know ENGLISH.
NEWSFLASH, English isn't the worlds largest language. By native speakers, English is third to Mandarin and SPANISH. By total speakers, English is second to Mandarin.
and say the pledge, which is showing respect for our country.
The ability to say the pledge says nothing about the person saying it, and whether or not they have respect for the country. Half the kids who are forced to say the pledge probably don't even know what it means

[Korashk]

There's no point in responding to Tacitus. People like him and so many others that have posted in this thread don't want to lose their ignorance. They prefer to hold their bigoted beliefs because those beliefs give them some sort of meaning. Heck, they probably don't even care that a lot of the time, their beliefs are objectively wrong.

I don't know what makes these people tick, and I really don't want to. However, I realize that for the most part trying to use logic and reason to make them change their views is pointless. They aren't going to care about facts or evidence. There are numerous psychological concepts that basically prove that people prefer their own beliefs to the truth.

Truthfully, I'm guilty of constantly responding to these people, but the ones I respond to aren't as far gone as Tacitus. It amazes me just how well he fits the xenophobic American stereotype. I thought Professional Russian was bad, but Tacitus takes the cake; and I think even that fact deserves some perverse admiration.

[Professional Russian]

There's no point in responding to Tacitus. People like him and so many others that have posted in this thread don't want to lose their ignorance. They prefer to hold their bigoted beliefs because those beliefs give them some sort of meaning. Heck, they probably don't even care that a lot of the time, their beliefs are objectively wrong.

I don't know what makes these people tick, and I really don't want to. However, I realize that for the most part trying to use logic and reason to make them change their views is pointless. They aren't going to care about facts or evidence. There are numerous psychological concepts that basically prove that people prefer their own beliefs to the truth.

Truthfully, I'm guilty of constantly responding to these people, but the ones I respond to aren't as far gone as Tacitus. It amazes me just how well he fits the xenophobic American stereotype. I thought Professional Russian was bad, but Tacitus takes the cake; and I think even that fact deserves some perverse admiration.

How do we know that i might be right and you might be worng

[StoppingTime]

How do we know that i might be right and you might be worng

Because we have evidence, proof and facts, and you well, don't?

[Korashk]

How do we know that i might be right and you might be worng
Because I back up my points with research, data, and evidence.

[Sugaree]

How do we know that i might be right and you might be worng

Because most of us here are giving you precise and logical arguments instead of the typical white Republican argument of "They take our jobs, our money, and we need to kick them out".

I think I'll just be leaving this thread. I'm not conceding defeat to any of you xenophobic border-line racists, but the incredible lack of empathy just astounds me. I would like to see you all kicked out of the country, taken to the slums of Mexico City with your citizenship revoked, and go through five or six years of waiting and thousands of dollars wasted to get your green card. By then, you'll most likely be dead; not because of drug violence, but because you all have put yourselves, and America/anything relating to America, on such a high pedestal that you can't even see the ground you should be walking on.

[EvilB]

Maby America should have like a membership fee thing and we get immigrants that can pay and kick out people on welfare and stuff that don't help out the country?

[Lanx]

And you're right, regardless, we should kill/deport them. That seems like a good idea. Never give anyone a chance except the "good 'wittle boys and girls who waited in a line" for maybe a decade. Wake up.

Dude, tell me or show me where I said they should be killed? Oh that's right, you can't, because I never said or implied that. They should be deported and never allowed back in to the United States. So again, show me where I said they should be killed. Exactly, you can't. Because I never said that. That's ok, you continue to keep telling your little 14 year old self that its somehow ok to break the law and reward those who break the law. Also, I don't give a fuck who Obama has to worry about or what the bastard is doing. He is a worthless piece of shit who has no right to be President any longer. I also don't care if they here as students or not, if they are here illegally, then they need to be deported. They also need to pay whatever back taxes they owe from being here illegally, and they need to learn to read, write, and speak English fluently. I am sick and tired of this Country catering to those who refuse to learn English. Oh, and don't give me some crap about "Do you know how hard English is to learn?". Who the fuck cares, if they want to be here, then they need to be here LEGALLY, and they need to assimilate.

I don't honestly think though that a 14 year old such as yourself really has any credibility on this subject anyway. Maybe when you grow up more and leave Junior High School a little later on in life, you might see things more clearly and you might actually realize that is not ok to break the law, nor is it ok to reward those who do break the law.

[AZCowboy]

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22335

[StoppingTime]

Dude, tell me or show me where I said they should be killed? Oh that's right, you can't, because I never said or implied that. They should be deported and never allowed back in to the United States. So again, show me where I said they should be killed. Exactly, you can't. Because I never said that.

Clearly, if you saw from that paragraph, my response was solely intended to be sarcastic. I don't assume an opinion if you don't tell me what it is. (Unless of course, someone won't tell me, probably because they'll be embarrassed, but that's not the case here.)


That's ok, you continue to keep telling your little 14 year old self

Wow. Your maturity is overwhelming me here. Bring my age into an argument. That will help your case.


that its somehow ok to break the law and reward those who break the law. Also, I don't give a fuck who Obama has to worry about or what the bastard is doing. He is a worthless piece of shit who has no right to be President any longer.

If our system is so fucked up, then sure, let them come here and be successful. They aren't taking jobs from Americans. because clearly, Americans don't want those jobs. If they did, they'd already be taken. (/logic)
And clearly, you don't care for anyone but yourself. Otherwise, you'd understand the fact that Obama, or any other President, doesn't work solely for you. They worry about the whole country.
I'm done arguing with you calling him derogatory names, because I know you'll never change.


I also don't care if they here as students or not, if they are here illegally, then they need to be deported.

Right. Except for the fact it would no longer be illegal for them to be here if this bill passes. You don't even know what you are debating.


They also need to pay whatever back taxes they owe from being here illegally,

The majority of them already pay taxes, even if they are undocumented.


and they need to learn to read, write, and speak English fluently. I am sick and tired of this Country catering to those who refuse to learn English.

Why? We should only have one language to be spoken. If you don't like it, you're deported. More and more people are even coming here legally who may not know English. (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/acs08researchnote.pdf) (Check page Three) Should we deport them?


Oh, and don't give me some crap about "Do you know how hard English is to learn?". Who the fuck cares, if they want to be here, then they need to be here LEGALLY, and they need to assimilate.

You need to learn to give people a chance. Not everyone is going to be amazing as you are, clearly, seeing as you are a perfect example of a US Citizen.
Jump off your star-spangled horse.


I don't honestly think though that a 14 year old such as yourself really has any credibility on this subject anyway. Maybe when you grow up more and leave Junior High School a little later on in life, you might see things more clearly and you might actually realize that is not ok to break the law, nor is it ok to reward those who do break the law.

Yes, you are automatically much wiser and smarter than me because you are older. (I bow down to you, as I am thou humble servant.......)

Even though I am able to back up what I say with data and statistics, I have no credibility. Once again, very mature of you to say that.

[Lanx]

Clearly, if you saw from that paragraph, my response was solely intended to be sarcastic. I don't assume an opinion if you don't tell me what it is. (Unless of course, someone won't tell me, probably because they'll be embarrassed, but that's not the case here.)



Wow. Your maturity is overwhelming me here. Bring my age into an argument. That will help your case.



If our system is so fucked up, then sure, let them come here and be successful. They aren't taking jobs from Americans. because clearly, Americans don't want those jobs. If they did, they'd already be taken. (/logic)
And clearly, you don't care for anyone but yourself. Otherwise, you'd understand the fact that Obama, or any other President, doesn't work solely for you. They worry about the whole country.
I'm done arguing with you calling him derogatory names, because I know you'll never change.



Right. Except for the fact it would no longer be illegal for them to be here if this bill passes. You don't even know what you are debating.



The majority of them already pay taxes, even if they are undocumented.



Why? We should only have one language to be spoken. If you don't like it, you're deported. More and more people are even coming here legally who may not know English. (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/acs08researchnote.pdf) (Check page Three) Should we deport them?



You need to learn to give people a chance. Not everyone is going to be amazing as you are, clearly, seeing as you are a perfect example of a US Citizen.
Jump off your star-spangled horse.



Yes, you are automatically much wiser and smarter than me because you are older. (I bow down to you, as I am thou humble servant.......)

Even though I am able to back up what I say with data and statistics, I have no credibility. Once again, very mature of you to say that.

For starters, it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever give an illegal criminal a chance, I don't care where they come from or how educated they may be. They clearly aren't that educated if they see reason to break the law by setting foot in this country illegally.

I love how you try to shove your warped views down other people's throats. The fact of the matter is you have no credibility. I don't care where you get your so-called data and statistics from, the fact alone that you believe that it is somehow ok to break the law gives you no credibility whatsoever. So maybe you need to jump off your high horse and look in the mirror since YOU are the one who has no clue what you are debating here. You are right on one thing, I don't care. I don't care about those who break the law and refuse to come here the legal right way. They all need to be deported if they are illegal. I don't care how long they've been here or how fucking qualified they are.

[shyguy21]

Dude, tell me or show me where I said they should be killed? Oh that's right, you can't, because I never said or implied that. They should be deported and never allowed back in to the United States. So again, show me where I said they should be killed. Exactly, you can't. Because I never said that. That's ok, you continue to keep telling your little 14 year old self that its somehow ok to break the law and reward those who break the law. Also, I don't give a fuck who Obama has to worry about or what the bastard is doing. He is a worthless piece of shit who has no right to be President any longer. I also don't care if they here as students or not, if they are here illegally, then they need to be deported. They also need to pay whatever back taxes they owe from being here illegally, and they need to learn to read, write, and speak English fluently. I am sick and tired of this Country catering to those who refuse to learn English. Oh, and don't give me some crap about "Do you know how hard English is to learn?". Who the fuck cares, if they want to be here, then they need to be here LEGALLY, and they need to assimilate.

I don't honestly think though that a 14 year old such as yourself really has any credibility on this subject anyway. Maybe when you grow up more and leave Junior High School a little later on in life, you might see things more clearly and you might actually realize that is not ok to break the law, nor is it ok to reward those who do break the law.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason people hate America

[Lanx]

and possibly serving in our military - fighting for our cause - something that they might not even believe in.

I have never understood how illegal criminals are allowed to worm their way into our Military... it is a long and difficult process to get in to the Armed Forces. You have to have all of your identification verified, including your Social Security Card / Number. You also must prove you are either a US Citizen or a Legal Valid Green Card Holder. You also have to go through a very rigorous and strict Security Clearance interview, that not only involves questions being asked about you, but your family as well. Again, I never have understood how some of these illegal criminals can be allowed into our Military.

[Lanx]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason people hate America

I really don't care if people such as yourself hate what I said.

The United States of America is a Country where the rule of law is paramount. It is not a country where it is ok to be an illegal criminal, and it certainly not a country where it is ok to reward criminal behavior, and that is what illegal immigration is, criminal behavior and activity, nothing more, nothing less.

I also find it funny that you and others seem to think it is ok to break the law.

[Cicero]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason people hate America

You know what, sorry we don't like when people break the laws. Murderers and rapists and Pedos break the law, we don't like them. So why should we like illegal immigrants, they are breaking our laws that we have, which alone shows disrespect.

Saying the pledge, shows respect for our troops. Unlike you all, who hate the pledge, I'd rather say the pledge everyday at school and have freedom and know that I'm protected by the army and government. But I know that's to much of a sacrifice, saying a paragraph long pledge. Illegal immigrants deserve a better life, when they become immigrants, which only takes a few months to a year. Everyone deserves a chance, but they don't deserve a chance when they break the law.

What the dream act is doing, is rewarding them for breaking the law.
But idk how they get through a electric fence, don't they have electric fences on the border?

Also, one of you mentioned proof, well here's (http://www.gastongazette.com/articles/breaking-47067-span-aliens.html) your proof. Here's (http://immref.com/spin/dream-act-is-anti-american) another great site. Lastly, another site (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/22/romney-immigration-promises-hard-to-deliver/) for proof.

Fact of the matter is VT is just a very liberal community with liberal viewpoints (the majority) and that's fine. There are more liberals to defend their viewpoints, whereas their are very few republicans or conservatives. You go to California and ask for a lot of people's viewpoints, their viewpoints will be mostly liberal. You go to Texas and theirs are mostly conservative.

[StoppingTime]

For starters, it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever give an illegal criminal a chance, I don't care where they come from or how educated they may be. They clearly aren't that educated if they see reason to break the law by setting foot in this country illegally.

This argument proves you to be a close minded, self-centered xenophobic. Congratulations.
I'd like to drop you in Mexico City. Let you see what kind of poverty these people are living in. It'll make welfare checks in the US look like winning lottery tickets.
Lets take an example.
There is a family. Two parents, and a 9 year old child. The parents are able to get the child over the border, and into a school. They are able to get entry level jobs so they can support him, maybe even give him a future to look forward to. But nope, they should be deported. No questions asked. Wait though, years ago, they applied for citizenship, and were told they had to wait. If our government can't get back to these people, they deserve to be here.


I love how you try to shove your warped views down other people's throats.

This is a debate forum. I'm not "shoving my warped views" on anyone. If you don't care for by rebuttals to your baseless arguments, then don't post.


The fact of the matter is you have no credibility. I don't care where you get your so-called data and statistics from,

I have now lost any shred of respect I had for you.
Your sentence: I don't care what you say or do, or where you get facts. I'm always right.
-You are always right, why? Because they are "breaking the law?"
If they are attempting to save their lives, or their children's lives, I believe they can be here. The mindset of, "it's illegal, so it must be wrong" is the problem here.


the fact alone that you believe that it is somehow ok to break the law gives you no credibility whatsoever.

Facts and Statistics ≠ Credibility. Good to know.


So maybe you need to jump off your high horse and look in the mirror since YOU are the one who has no clue what you are debating here.

Clearly, even though I'm the one sourcing everything, and actually giving reasons other than "I'm older, so I'm right" and "it's illegal, so it's wrong."

You know what, sorry we don't like when people break the laws. Murderers and rapists and Pedos break the law, we don't like them. So why should we like illegal immigrants, they are breaking our laws that we have, which alone shows disrespect.

Did you just compare murderers and rapists to undocumented immigrants?
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/161/4/1/Facedesk_by_ToSealOurFate.jpg



Saying the pledge, shows respect for our troops. Unlike you all, who hate the pledge, I'd rather say the pledge everyday at school and have freedom and know that I'm protected by the army and government. But I know that's to much of a sacrifice, saying a paragraph long pledge. Illegal immigrants deserve a better life, when they become immigrants, which only takes a few months to a year. Everyone deserves a chance, but they don't deserve a chance when they break the law.

Here's a quote from a whole debate topic (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120654&highlight=pledge) on the pledge:

We live in a free country. That's all I'm seeing. Why do I need to say this to a flag every morning? If we are supposed to be patriotic, blind patriotism isn't going to get us anywhere.

Nowhere in the entire pledge does it say anything about the military, or the people in it. I don't need to say a meaningless poem to know about a military. Really. I made that connection all by myself!

Show me a source, with updated statistics (don't just Google it and give me the DHS website) on how long it can take to become a citizen.

[Lanx]

This argument proves you to be a close minded, self-centered xenophobic. Congratulations.
I'd like to drop you in Mexico City. Let you see what kind of poverty these people are living in. It'll make welfare checks in the US look like winning lottery tickets.
Lets take an example.
There is a family. Two parents, and a 9 year old child. The parents are able to get the child over the border, and into a school. They are able to get entry level jobs so they can support him, maybe even give him a future to look forward to. But nope, they should be deported. No questions asked. Wait though, years ago, they applied for citizenship, and were told they had to wait. If our government can't get back to these people, they deserve to be here.

Well, you can think I'm a close-minded, xenophobe all you like. I know I'm not, and that's all that matters. I believe you to be a moron who thinks it is ok to break the law and condone those who break the law and you think it is ok to reward those who break the law. Also, I've been to Mexico City thank you, in many cases, it is no different than some areas of the United States, which you would clearly see if you climbed down of that pedestal which you are so quick to accuse me of being on.



This is a debate forum. I'm not "shoving my warped views" on anyone. If you don't care for by rebuttals to your baseless arguments, then don't post.

Your "rebuttals" are laughable as Hell.

I have now lost any shred of respect I had for you.

As if I give a damn anyway... I mean seriously, do you honestly think that I will lose any sleep over the opinion of some dude on the internet?

Your sentence: I don't care what you say or do, or where you get facts. I'm always right.

AGAIN, where did I say that? Sarcasm or not, stop putting words in my mouth.

-You are always right, why? Because they are "breaking the law?"

That's right, they are breaking the law.


If they are attempting to save their lives, or their children's lives, I believe they can be here. The mindset of, "it's illegal, so it must be wrong" is the problem here.

Then if they are supposedly attempting to save their lives and their children's lives, then they need to claim assylum or refugee status, it's not that difficult. Also, if you've been to Mexico, or anywhere else in Latin America, you would see that a lot of them are actually very well off. How exactly are their lives in so much danger? Apart from the drug cartels and the drug wars? I mean I can see how some of the people coming in from the African countries or Cuba might be trying to save their lives, but I don't see how some of those coming from Mexico or other places in Latin and Central America are in so much danger apart from the drug wars.


Clearly, even though I'm the one sourcing everything, and actually giving reasons other than "I'm older, so I'm right" and "it's illegal, so it's wrong."

Think and believe what you like. But you clearly are the one who believes that is ok to break the law.

[Lanx]

Did you just compare murderers and rapists to undocumented immigrants?

Actually, since you claim to be so well up on statistics and facts, if you came down off that pedestal that you claim myself and those who believe that is not okay to break the law are allegedly standing on, you might actually realize that a lot of Illegal Immigrants in the United States are arrested for a multitude of crimes, including murder, rape, and pedophilia, and several have actually been executed for those crimes in this Country. But I forget, according to you, just because they are illegal and undocumented, that makes it okay and we should apparently look the other way.

[Korashk]

Breaking bad laws is a good thing. It's how they go away.

[Cicero]

Did you just compare murderers and rapists to undocumented immigrants?
image (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/161/4/1/Facedesk_by_ToSealOurFate.jpg)




Here's a quote from a whole debate topic (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120654&highlight=pledge) on the pledge:



Nowhere in the entire pledge does it say anything about the military, or the people in it. I don't need to say a meaningless poem to know about a military. Really. I made that connection all by myself!

Show me a source, with updated statistics (don't just Google it and give me the DHS website) on how long it can take to become a citizen.

It's funny how all of the sudden the pledge is offensive. From the 200+ years America has said it, no one found it offensive, yet all the sudden this new generation, wants to take God out of the pledge. Funny I find it. Just shows how morals and values now a days are not important. Maybe what's really wrong is this generation. Tell me, how can the pledge all the sudden be offensive, when it's been said for over 200+ years and not once as it been offensive? Ever since that one lady got offended that God was being spoken of in school, our generation (and parents generation) has taken a nose dive. No morals, no values. (that's addressing the flag argument)

Saying the pledge shows respect. End of argument.

Oh, and we say God in the pledge cause this nation was built on Christianity. In the beginning of this nation, they denounced the CATHOLIC church, not the Christian.


Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"


The intent of the First Amendment was well understood during the founding of our country. The First Amendment was not to keep religion out of government. It was to keep Government from establishing a 'National Denomination" (like the Church of England). As early as 1799 a court declared: "By our form of government the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing." Even in the letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Baptists of Danbury Connecticut (from which we derive the term "separation of Church and State") he made it quite clear that the wall of separation was to insure that Government would never interfere with religious activities because religious freedom came from God, not from Government.


"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation." There it is again! From the Supreme Court of the United States. This court went on to cite 87 precedents (prior actions, words, and rulings) to conclude that this was a "Christian nation".

To say that this nation was not founded as a Christian nation or that the Constitution was not founded on Christian principles is totally at odds with the facts of history.


Breaking bad laws is a good thing. It's how they go away.

That's your viewpoint it's not a fact. Many others would agree with me and say its a good law. And who can determine somethings a bad law? What if I think allowing gay marriage is a bad law? What if I think that stealing is good, and shouldn't be against the law? What if I think extortion shouldn't be against the law? So if I want extortion to be legal, everyone should just extort from businesses and people, and then it will become legal? Great!



Also, I don't need to learn Spanish. The only things you might need to learn in Spanish are phrases like "help me with this" or other stuff. Why you should learn Latin and not Spanish. (http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/whystudyclassics/a/whystudylatin.htm)

another useful example why Latin is important (http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/charlottehigginsblog/2009/may/24/latin-in-schools) ...another reason. Last reason why (http://www.wisegeek.com/why-should-i-study-latin.htm)


Here (http://www.usflag.org/) is why saying the pledge is important. Another example (http://acfnewsource.org.s60463.gridserver.com/democracy/pledge_patriotism.html) ............ yet another example (http://www.buzzle.com/articles/why-is-the-pledge-of-allegiance-important.html)

There's your evidence. Even though you probably won't read the evidence I compiled for you...

[StoppingTime]

It's funny how all of the sudden the pledge is offensive. From the 200+ years America has said it, no one found it offensive, yet all the sudden this new generation, wants to take God out of the pledge. Funny I find it. Just shows how morals and values now a days are not important. Maybe what's really wrong is this generation. Tell me, how can the pledge all the sudden be offensive, when it's been said for over 200+ years and not once as it been offensive? Ever since that one lady got offended that God was being spoken of in school, our generation (and parents generation) has taken a nose dive. No morals, no values. (that's addressing the flag argument)

Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.


I think this just about breaks your argument completely.
1. The Pledge hasn't been said for 200+ years.
2. The phrase "under God" was added in 1954.
3. I'm sure this is not the only generation of people who do not like the Pledge.
4. I never once mentioned that I disliked having the words "under God" in the pledge.
5. The pledge has nothing to do with morals and values.

[Korashk]

It's funny how all of the sudden the pledge is offensive. From the 200+ years America has said it, no one found it offensive, yet all the sudden this new generation, wants to take God out of the pledge. Funny I find it. Just shows how morals and values now a days are not important. Maybe what's really wrong is this generation. Tell me, how can the pledge all the sudden be offensive, when it's been said for over 200+ years and not once as it been offensive? Ever since that one lady got offended that God was being spoken of in school, our generation (and parents generation) has taken a nose dive. No morals, no values. (that's addressing the flag argument)
Shows what you know, the part about God was added to the pledge in the fifties, which is pretty much when the public outcry started.

[shyguy21]

Well, you can think I'm a close-minded, xenophobe all you like. I know I'm not, and that's all that matters. I believe you to be a moron who thinks it is ok to break the law and condone those who break the law and you think it is ok to reward those who break the law.
No one said its okay to break the law, just your "I don't give a fuck about anyone" attitude isn't okay.
Also, I've been to Mexico City thank you, in many cases, it is no different than some areas of the United States, which you would clearly see if you climbed down of that pedestal which you are so quick to accuse me of being on.
If life was so great in Mexico, people wouldn't be illegally coming here...

Then if they are supposedly attempting to save their lives and their children's lives, then they need to claim assylum or refugee status, it's not that difficult.
I don't think 11.5 million asylum seekers would really work out.
Also, if you've been to Mexico, or anywhere else in Latin America, you would see that a lot of them are actually very well off. How exactly are their lives in so much danger? Apart from the drug cartels and the drug wars? I mean I can see how some of the people coming in from the African countries or Cuba might be trying to save their lives
So you can see why one would try to escape famine and dictatorship, but not death, kidnapping, and extreme poverty?

but I don't see how some of those coming from Mexico or other places in Latin and Central America are in so much danger apart from the drug wars.

lol, Isn't that the main danger?



You know what, sorry we don't like when people break the laws. Murderers and rapists and Pedos break the law, we don't like them. So why should we like illegal immigrants, they are breaking our laws that we have, which alone shows disrespect.
These are not even comparable

Saying the pledge, shows respect for our troops. Unlike you all, who hate the pledge, I'd rather say the pledge everyday at school and have freedom and know that I'm protected by the army and government. But I know that's to much of a sacrifice, saying a paragraph long pledge.
Saying the pledge doesn't mean shit. They're just words. You don't have to agree with them to say them.
Illegal immigrants deserve a better life, when they become immigrants, which only takes a few months to a year.
:lol: Do you realize some people have been waiting over 10 years for citizenship, not to mention the thousands of dollars required in this process which, if you're in extreme poverty, you don't have

What the dream act is doing, is rewarding them for breaking the law.
"This bill would provide conditional permanent residency to certain illegal individuals of good moral character who graduate from U.S. high schools, arrived in the United States as minors, and lived in the country continuously for at least five years prior to the bill's enactment." from wikipedia. You're not rewarding illegal immigrants, you're giving people who weren't at fault of being here in the first place a chance.

[StoppingTime]

Well, you can think I'm a close-minded, xenophobe all you like. I know I'm not, and that's all that matters.

Close minded- not ready to receive to new ideas.
What you said: I know I'm right, and that's all that matters.
So, clearly, you are close minded.


I believe you to be a moron
1. I believe you will now be infracted.
2. I believe it does not help an argument to criticize the person, rather, their arguments.

who thinks it is ok to break the law and condone those who break the law and you think it is ok to reward those who break the law.

As Austin said, breaking bad laws is good, that's how they go away.


Also, I've been to Mexico City thank you, in many cases, it is no different than some areas of the United States, which you would clearly see if you climbed down of that pedestal which you are so quick to accuse me of being on.

Right, there's no poverty in Mexico. I can't see from way up here on my pedestal filled with information and data. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Mexico)





Your "rebuttals" are laughable as Hell.
I guess Leno and Conan will be going to hell then.



As if I give a damn anyway... I mean seriously, do you honestly think that I will lose any sleep over the opinion of some dude on the internet?
Not really, I was just putting it there so maybe you'd rethink some things. But it isn't my place to tell you what to think.



AGAIN, where did I say that? Sarcasm or not, stop putting words in my mouth.
I was summarizing what you said.


That's right, they are breaking the law.

I repeat. Breaking bad laws are good, they will be abolished.


Then if they are supposedly attempting to save their lives and their children's lives, then they need to claim assylum or refugee status, it's not that difficult.

Show me statistics on it then.


Also, if you've been to Mexico, or anywhere else in Latin America, you would see that a lot of them are actually very well off. How exactly are their lives in so much danger? Apart from the drug cartels and the drug wars? I mean I can see how some of the people coming in from the African countries or Cuba might be trying to save their lives, but I don't see how some of those coming from Mexico or other places in Latin and Central America are in so much danger apart from the drug wars.

If you read any of the links I post, you'd realize this is wrong.


Think and believe what you like. But you clearly are the one who believes that is ok to break the law.

Breaking bad laws is good, they will be abolished.

[Korashk]

I'm going to go on a little rant about laws here because of the people current;y posting who think that the law is some sort of sacred concept that must be followed no matter what. I hate to break it to you, but there are metric shit-tons of immoral laws. These are the kinds of laws that absolutely need to be broken. If people didn't break laws then governments could do whatever they wanted to anybody with no repercussions, and that is a terrible thing. You see, if the right laws get broken for the right reasons then things change for the better.

The American forefathers broke laws to create this country.
Abolitionists broke laws to stop slavery.
Ghandi broke laws to stop the oppression of his people by the British.
Nelson Mandela broke laws to oppose South African apartheid.
Civil rights leaders in the sixties broke the racist laws that oppressed black people.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/69070/1542594-captain_america.jpg

The point is, some laws are meant to be broken; some laws need to be broken; and some laws serve no purpose other than to hinder progress. You might also like to know that in the early days, immigration to America was pretty much unrestricted. If you could get here you were allowed to live here. If your family came to America before 1900, they got here in exactly the same manner that every single illegal immigrant did. They are doing nothing wrong by coming to America. That only makes them criminals in a sense that is meaningless. The fact that you're comparing the act of entering the country unofficially to murderer and rape is despicable.

[StoppingTime]

In response to Tacitus's links.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/whystudyclassics/a/whystudylatin.htm
Yes, it's true that, in learning Latin, you may be able to speak English better. But unless you feel it necessary to memorize the dictionary backwards, I don't see why you'd want to take it. Do well on SAT's, fine. But to learn it over a language that is actually spoken, I see no reason. Both? Sure, go knock yourself out.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/charlottehigginsblog/2009/may/24/latin-in-schools
Ooooooooo... I'll be excited to read classic novels because I know Latin now!!!!111oneoneone11!
http://www.wisegeek.com/why-should-i-study-latin.htm
I'll be inspired to learn theology!!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!
Wait, I know latin :arrow: I'll study classic religious texts. I don't see that happening, and just because someone writes about it, doesn't make it fact. All of these are opinions. I don't provide opinions, I provide facts.

All the pledge links:
Once again, I don't need to hear why people think it is important to say the Pledge. I know what it means, and its underlying meanings. What you gave me are opinions, not facts.

[Lanx]

The fact that you're comparing the act of entering the country unofficially to murderer and rape is despicable.

I won't even comment on the ridiculousness that StoppingTime is saying any longer....

But, again, no it's not despicable.... Because, I say yet again, just like I said previously, many illegal immigrants, not all, but many, do commit murder and rape when they are in this country. It is a fact that cannot be ignored. Just because they are illegal criminal immigrants, does not mean that they cannot commit crimes such as murder and rape, because they do. But those of you who think it is ok for illegal immigrants to break the law clearly like to turn your heads the other way.

[StoppingTime]

I won't even comment on the ridiculousness that StoppingTime is saying any longer....

Ran out of recycled quotes and put downs, did you?


But, again, no it's not despicable.... Because, I say yet again, just like I said previously, many illegal immigrants, not all, but many, do commit murder and rape when they are in this country.

mmmmm...... NO.
In San Diego violent crime is down 17 percent. In El Paso, Texas violent crime down 36 percent - it sits right across from Juarez, Mexico, one of the deadliest cities on earth. In Phoenix major crime has dropped 10 percent from 2000 to 2009.

Although, there are some mixed reports about this. Sure, they do make up some of the crimes, especially in Arizona. However, it is always less than 20%.
However, this is not a reason to deport everyone, seeing as this is not the case with the vast majority.


It is a fact that cannot be ignored. Just because they are illegal criminal immigrants, does not mean that they cannot commit crimes such as murder and rape, because they do. But those of you who think it is ok for illegal immigrants to break the law clearly like to turn your heads the other way.

No, I'd like to see the law changed, and right now, this is how it has to be done.

[shyguy21]

But, again, no it's not despicable.... Because, I say yet again, just like I said previously, many illegal immigrants, not all, but many, do commit murder and rape when they are in this country. It is a fact that cannot be ignored. Just because they are illegal criminal immigrants, does not mean that they cannot commit crimes such as murder and rape, because they do. But those of you who think it is ok for illegal immigrants to break the law clearly like to turn your heads the other way.

NO ONE said turn the other way, just deporting every single illegal immigrant doesn't solve the problem, does it? They can still come back.

[Sugaree]

Saying the pledge, shows respect for our troops. Unlike you all, who hate the pledge, I'd rather say the pledge everyday at school and have freedom and know that I'm protected by the army and government.

Jesus Christ on a bike, why do you even bother bringing this up? Talk about coming out of left field (or in your case, right wing field). The pledge isn't about the troops or the army. It doesn't even fucking mention the two. You also have to be a fucking sheep if you think the government and army have protected you. The last time they rightfully protected us was in World War II.

Fact of the matter is VT is just a very liberal community with liberal viewpoints (the majority) and that's fine. There are more liberals to defend their viewpoints, whereas their are very few republicans or conservatives. You go to California and ask for a lot of people's viewpoints, their viewpoints will be mostly liberal. You go to Texas and theirs are mostly conservative.

http://4closurefraud.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/captain-obvious.jpg

It's funny how all of the sudden the pledge is offensive. From the 200+ years America has said it, no one found it offensive, yet all the sudden this new generation, wants to take God out of the pledge. Funny I find it. Just shows how morals and values now a days are not important. Maybe what's really wrong is this generation. Tell me, how can the pledge all the sudden be offensive, when it's been said for over 200+ years and not once as it been offensive? Ever since that one lady got offended that God was being spoken of in school, our generation (and parents generation) has taken a nose dive. No morals, no values. (that's addressing the flag argument)

Saying the pledge shows respect. End of argument.

The "under God" part of the pledge was added in 1954. This was during the height of the Red Scare (y'know, the Cold War? The war that never happened?). It (the pledge) was originally written in 1892. This disproves your claim that it's been said for 200+ years. Francis Bellamy, who wrote the pledge, probably rolls in his grave because of people like you. Here's how the pledge has evolved:

1892: I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1892 to 1923: I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1923 to 1924: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1924 to 1954: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1954 to present: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all.

The problem is with the "under God" part. No one had a problem with the pledge. Hell, many people saw it as a good way to show your love of the United States. It's not this generation that has a problem with this part of the pledge. There's at least three or four more before us that don't like it.

Oh, and we say God in the pledge cause this nation was built on Christianity. In the beginning of this nation, they denounced the CATHOLIC church, not the Christian.

Please show me, in either the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence,
or the Constitution where either document says the country is based/founded on Christianity. Go on, I'll wait. And yes, it HAS to be in either of these documents. Don't bullshit.

Though I said earlier that I was leaving this thread, I just can't. I'm tired of seeing all this conservative flag waving, troop loving, beaner hating bullshit become the norm for political opinions. I find it absolutely stupid - and that is exactly what opinions like yours are - that you love this country so much. If you love it to the point that you don't want to share it, you've already given the government enough to fuck you over. If you're such a patriot, why don't you go into the military with other brain washed citizens go die in the fucking desert? Go shove your red, white, and blue dicks back up the asses of Uncle Sam, because I'm sure as hell he's getting pretty lonely right about now. Don't forget to shove a sparkler up your ass during the Fourth of July festivities, you might just be called a true American!

[Cicero]

Jesus Christ on a bike, why do you even bother bringing this up? Talk about coming out of left field (or in your case, right wing field). The pledge isn't about the troops or the army. It doesn't even fucking mention the two. You also have to be a fucking sheep if you think the government and army have protected you. The last time they rightfully protected us was in World War II.



image (http://4closurefraud.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/captain-obvious.jpg)



The "under God" part of the pledge was added in 1954. This was during the height of the Red Scare (y'know, the Cold War? The war that never happened?). It (the pledge) was originally written in 1892. This disproves your claim that it's been said for 200+ years. Francis Bellamy, who wrote the pledge, probably rolls in his grave because of people like you. Here's how the pledge has evolved:

1892: I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1892 to 1923: I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1923 to 1924: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1924 to 1954: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1954 to present: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all.

The problem is with the "under God" part. No one had a problem with the pledge. Hell, many people saw it as a good way to show your love of the United States. It's not this generation that has a problem with this part of the pledge. There's at least three or four more before us that don't like it.



Please show me, in either the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence,
or the Constitution where either document says the country is based/founded on Christianity. Go on, I'll wait. And yes, it HAS to be in either of these documents. Don't bullshit.

Though I said earlier that I was leaving this thread, I just can't. I'm tired of seeing all this conservative flag waving, troop loving, beaner hating bullshit become the norm for political opinions. I find it absolutely stupid - and that is exactly what opinions like yours are - that you love this country so much. If you love it to the point that you don't want to share it, you've already given the government enough to fuck you over. If you're such a patriot, why don't you go into the military with other brain washed citizens go die in the fucking desert? Go shove your red, white, and blue dicks back up the asses of Uncle Sam, because I'm sure as hell he's getting pretty lonely right about now. Don't forget to shove a sparkler up your ass during the Fourth of July festivities, you might just be called a true American!

I think it's absolutely sick your mocking the army. FYI the army protected us against the Arab and Muslim extremists. Thousands have died in Iraq and your just gonna mock them? If i we're to say something about gays and fags and what not, people would be all over me negative repping me, insulting me, and defending homosexuality. But when people are putting down the people that protects us, now that's just fine. Who cares. That's how the Vt community is. Double standard.

If that was your partner or parent who died in the "desert" you would be supporting the troops. At least I support the troops, and I'm not bashing them like you. I never mentioned a beaner or bean burrito. I was talking about illegal immigrants. If the army wasn't here during WWII, or they weren't around to defend us. Hitler and the Nazi party would be occupying the US to this day, killing gays, jews, and anyone who didn't agree with the party. My grandfather got shot in the face, for the US. To defend assholes that put down people in the military.

So your a sick person, to mock the people that risk their lives for us. But hey, that's what liberals are about, putting down the military, supporting gays, and abortion.


I also think something more permanent should be done about illegal immigration. I think it's a waste of money always sending them back. It's like a dog, if you have a great in your hand and you tell the dog to go back. The dog won't because it's to distracted with a treat. Mexico needs to fix itself btw, if the drug cartel decides to kill anyone they want, whether they're important or not (important people like political leaders or whatever), that's mexicos problem, not ours. We should just worry about our country, and if they decide to cross the border. Just put them back in Mexico or even a jail on the border, but like, a low funded jail. So we don't waste money on them.

Oh and at least people who are patriotic for our troops do have morals and values.


The majority of gangs out there are illegal immigrants or new immigrants, from Mexico.

[Sugaree]

So your a sick person, to mock the people that risk their lives for us. But hey, that's what liberals are about, putting down the military, supporting gays, and abortion.

I'll leave then. Take pleasure in knowing that I'll be burning an effigy of General Patton while taking my boyfriend on a nice date and giving him a tour of an abortion clinic.

[shyguy21]

FYI the army protected us against the Arab and Muslim extremists.
tbh, the Muslim and Arab extremists wouldn't be against us if our army didn't invade their countries in the first place.

[StoppingTime]

I think it's absolutely sick your mocking the army. FYI the army protected us against the Arab and Muslim extremists.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/815/lol-guy.jpg

Nope. They are just over there causing more problems than needed, FYI dooooooooood.
And once again, Arabs aren't all Muslim and Muslims aren't all Arab.


Thousands have died in Iraq and your just gonna mock them?

I am not mocking the military. I don't support what they are doing, and I feel this was Murdoc's intention as well.


If i we're to say something about gays and fags and what not, people would be all over me negative repping me, insulting me, and defending homosexuality.

Mostly because this is a forum whose majority is made up by LGBT teens...


But when people are putting down the people that protects us, now that's just fine. Who cares. That's how the Vt community is. Double standard.

Show me, right now, how they protect us. I'll wait.


If that was your partner or parent who died in the "desert" you would be supporting the troops.

I doubt it. I would have tried to endlessly talk them out of going.


I was talking about illegal immigrants. If the army wasn't here during WWII, or they weren't around to defend us. Hitler and the Nazi party would be occupying the US to this day, killing gays, jews, and anyone who didn't agree with the party. My grandfather got shot in the face, for the US. To defend assholes that put down people in the military.

You're correct. During WWII they protected us. Now.... not so much.



I also think something more permanent should be done about illegal immigration.
I think it's a waste of money always sending them back. It's like a dog, if you have a great in your hand and you tell the dog to go back. The dog won't because it's to distracted with a treat.

Insert Captain Obvious meme here.


Mexico needs to fix itself btw, if the drug cartel decides to kill anyone they want, whether they're important or not (important people like political leaders or whatever), that's mexicos problem, not ours. We should just worry about our country, and if they decide to cross the border. Just put them back in Mexico or even a jail on the border, but like, a low funded jail. So we don't waste money on them.

Yes, let's treat them like we did the Japanese, internment camps. Fun, no?

[Cicero]

Ran out of recycled quotes and put downs, did you?

That's why he said your to young, cause that's an immature comment.

[StoppingTime]

That's why he said your to young, cause that's an immature comment.

OK. Right. Shout me out because I made a sarcastic comment, and yet, all of his posts are filled with information he gets, from well, himself! And, the fact that he refuses to listen to anyone but himself seems a bit childish to me.

[shyguy21]

Mexico needs to fix itself btw, if the drug cartel decides to kill anyone they want, whether they're important or not (important people like political leaders or whatever), that's mexicos problem, not ours.
You can only ignore the growing conflict next door for so long, plus its only a matter of time before it DOES become our problem.

The majority of gangs out there are illegal immigrants or new immigrants, from Mexico.
:yawn: source?

[Cicero]

image (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/815/lol-guy.jpg)

Nope. They are just over there causing more problems than needed, FYI dooooooooood.
And once again, Arabs aren't all Muslim and Muslims aren't all Arab.



I am not mocking the military. I don't support what they are doing, and I feel this was Murdoc's intention as well.



Mostly because this is a forum whose majority is made up by LGBT teens...



Show me, right now, how they protect us. I'll wait.



I doubt it. I would have tried to endlessly talk them out of going.



You're correct. During WWII they protected us. Now.... not so much.




Insert Captain Obvious meme here.



Yes, let's treat them like we did the Japanese, internment camps. Fun, no?

THey attacked us first, then we put them in their place. Honestly, we should've just nuked them. Ever heard of 9/11? Well thats when terrorists attacked us first. Then we attacked them. Arabs Muslims you get the point, most Muslims are Arab. The military troops aren't in command of what they are told what to do by their superiors. So why not disagree with their superiors but support the troops?
Ya, I'm sure their wives and family did talk them out of going. I know I'd never go and I would be terrified if my mom or dad went to join the military. But I'm sure those army people, felt like they should do their part for this country.



You can only ignore the growing conflict next door for so long, plus its only a matter of time before it DOES become our problem.


:yawn: source?


http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Demographics

The most recent figures provided by law enforcement are 50 percent Hispanic/Latino gang members

Yep, Mexicans are doing a good job being good citizens! Half of all gangs are Mexican.

[StoppingTime]

THey attacked us first, then we put them in their place.

If you read previous posts from anyone in the Army debate, you'd realize that just isn't true.
And to say "put them in their place." You sound like a white supremacist fresh out of the racist 50's. Choose a better phrase.


Honestly, we should've just nuked them. Ever heard of 9/11? Well thats when terrorists attacked us first.

Yes, let's nuke the whole world. Nobody fucks wit' 'Murika Mayuuuuunnnn....
Nuking a bunch of villages in the Middle East wouldn't have gotten us far, now would it.
And once again, no, we invaded first.


Then we attacked them. Arabs Muslims you get the point, most Muslims are Arab.

Just accept you made a mistake! Don't say "you get the point" learn the difference.


The military troops aren't in command of what they are told what to do by their superiors. So why not disagree with their superiors but support the troops?

Why would I support a useless cause at the moment? It's their choice to go, I don't need to support that.

[shyguy21]

Ever heard of 9/11? Well thats when terrorists attacked us first. Then we attacked them.
No, no, no, no. WE INVADED THEM FIRST. While the attacks are inexcusable, we can't act like they just came out of nowhere and attacked. We occupied their countries, and supported Israel in taking their land.
Arabs Muslims you get the point, most Muslims are Arab.
Nope, most Muslims are Asian. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population with 202.9million

[Cicero]

No, no, no, no. WE INVADED THEM FIRST. While the attacks are inexcusable, we can't act like they just came out of nowhere and attacked. We occupied their countries, and supported Israel in taking their land.

Nope, most Muslims are Asian. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population with 202.9million

Ya, cause that was Israel's original land! Israel had the land first, then they lost it, then Arab countries took it. Then Israel was trying to get it back. It's a holy land to Israel, coincidentally it's a holy land for the Arab people too. Israel had that land first. But that whole debate gets into the bible so I won't get into that. We were just defending Israel and help them get their land BACK.

I see no difference between Arab and Muslim, both people are filled with evil intentions. the terrorist were doing Allahs work.

Now that we got the Mexicans being in most of the gangs out of the way, we can debate about the topic.

[StoppingTime]

Ya, cause that was Israel's original land!

What are you talking about? Let me explain to you all of Israel's major wars.
1948- War of Independence. British Mandate ends. Fighting against neighboring countries for land after they were invaded. Israel was able to gain land. Palestinians left. Jerusalem was not yet in their control.
1967- Six Days War. Israel expanded its land significantly. (West Bank, Jerusalem, Golan, Sinai, Gaza (given back later).
Yom Kippur War- No major changes. Egypt and other countries attempted to regain their land. It didn't work.
1978-1982 First Phase of Lebanon War- Lebanese invaded. Israel did after. No major land changes.
2006 Lebanon War- Hezbollah kidnapped soldiers. Israel attacked.
Gaza Conflict, which is still going on today.

None of those directly involved Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, etc....


Israel had the land first, then they lost it, then Arab countries took it. Then Israel was trying to get it back. It's a holy land to Israel, coincidentally it's a holy land for the Arab people too. Israel had that land first. But that whole debate gets into the bible so I won't get into that. We were just defending Israel and help them get their land BACK.

Erm... No.


I see no difference between Arab and Muslim, both people are filled with evil intentions. the terrorist were doing Allahs work.

I wish I could think you were kidding, but I know you aren't. There is a very large difference, and not all Arabs OR Muslims (in fact, the vast majority) are not filled with "evil intentions."

[shyguy21]

I see no difference between Arab and Muslim Then you're a stupid idiot who doesn't accept the facts presented to you.
both people are filled with evil intentions. the terrorist were doing Allahs work. :lol: really? hahaha! If someone performed a similar act of terrorism in the name of Christianity, you would think of them as extremists, not as examples of what the religion portrays. You're really misinformed

Now that we got the Mexicans being in most of the gangs out of the way, we can debate about the topic. Where the hell is your source?

[Cicero]

Then you're a stupid idiot who doesn't accept the facts presented to you.
:lol: really? hahaha! If someone performed a similar act of terrorism in the name of Christianity, you would think of them as extremists, not as examples of what the religion portrays. You're really misinformed

Where the hell is your source?

Wow seriously, I had already shown you. Let me type it again.


THE BELOW INFORMATION SHOWS YOU THE SITE WHICH PROVES TO YOU THAT 50% OF GANGS ARE MEXICAN

------------->>>>>> http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Demographics <<<<<<--------------


THE ABOVE INFORMATION SHOWS YOU THE SITE WHICH PROVES TO YOU THAT 50% OF GANGS ARE MEXICAN

Maybe you should criticize the argument rather the person?

[shyguy21]

Wow seriously, I had already shown you. Let me type it again.


THE BELOW INFORMATION SHOWS YOU THE SITE WHICH PROVES TO YOU THAT 50% OF GANGS ARE MEXICAN

------------->>>>>> http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Demographics <<<<<<--------------


THE ABOVE INFORMATION SHOWS YOU THE SITE WHICH PROVES TO YOU THAT 50% OF GANGS ARE MEXICAN


Ok, now I'm lost, I thought we were talking about ILLEGAL MEXICANS(not legal hispanics/latinos). I can tell you right now, here in New York, and basically the rest of the East Coast, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans make up the Hispanic gang population.

[Cicero]

Ok, now I'm lost, I thought we were talking about ILLEGAL MEXICANS(not legal hispanics/latinos). I can tell you right now, here in New York, and basically the rest of the East Coast, Dominicans and Puerto Ricans make up the Hispanic gang population.

Ya, and I was saying that when Mexicans become legal, a lot of them join gangs. There are also a lot of ILLEGAL MEXICANS in those Mexican gangs, but those gangs are like family so they protect the illegals.

Well at least you saw the link that I provided for the second time. I was worried you wouldn't notice or see it this time.

[shyguy21]

Ya, and I was saying that when Mexicans become legal, a lot of them join gangs. There are also a lot of ILLEGAL MEXICANS in those Mexican gangs, but those gangs are like family so they protect the illegals.
So for the sake of being progressive, what do you suppose we do? Get rid of the legal Mexicans and deport them too?

Well at least you saw the link that I provided for the second time. I was worried you wouldn't notice or see it this time.
Cool, nice to see you have the ability to worry :)

[Lanx]

Ran out of recycled quotes and put downs, did you?

No, because I'm not going to continuously argue with a 14 year old who hasn't got a clue about what he's talking about whatsoever. Maybe when your balls drop, you can come back and debate this with me properly and see the facts clearly.



mmmmm...... NO.

mmmmm...... YES:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-06-17/story/illegal-alien-arrested-after-woman-attacked-and-raped-near-outside-st

and

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2011/07/humberto-leal-executed-in-texas-despite-obama-appeal/

and

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-17/news/os-boyfriend-arrested-fatal-stabbing-20120516_1_multiple-stab-wounds-deputies-car

and

http://articles.boston.com/2011-09-28/news/30213607_1_illegal-immigrant-law-enforcement-support-center-customs-enforcement

Just to list a few.

So don't sit there and tell me illegal aliens don't commit crimes like murder and rape when they do.

[StoppingTime]

No, because I'm not going to continuosly argue with a 14 year old who hasn't got a clue about what he's talking about whatsoever. Maybe when you're balls drop, you can come back and debate this with me.


I'm so sad that someone insulted me, :(:(:(:(:(

Clearly, you're running away from a topic you can't debate. If I didn't have my age showing, this would be different.




mmmmm...... YES:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-06-17/story/illegal-alien-arrested-after-woman-attacked-and-raped-near-outside-st

and

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2011/07/humberto-leal-executed-in-texas-despite-obama-appeal/

and

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-17/news/os-boyfriend-arrested-fatal-stabbing-20120516_1_multiple-stab-wounds-deputies-car

and

http://articles.boston.com/2011-09-28/news/30213607_1_illegal-immigrant-law-enforcement-support-center-customs-enforcement

Just to list a few.

So don't sit there and tell me illegal aliens don't commit crimes like murder and rape when they do.

I never said they don't commit crimes. All you did was pull up news articles that show that they do. Regular American citizens do as well. Those aren't a big turn around for your debate.

[ImCoolBeans]

No, because I'm not going to continuously argue with a 14 year old who hasn't got a clue about what he's talking about whatsoever. Maybe when your balls drop, you can come back and debate this with me properly and see the facts clearly.

Oh come on dude, don't be pathetic... It's really sad when you try to have a serious debate and someone needs to come in here and start insulting people to try and better their argument. It's not getting you anywhere and we won't have it. Cut it out.



mmmmm...... YES:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-06-17/story/illegal-alien-arrested-after-woman-attacked-and-raped-near-outside-st

and

http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/2011/07/humberto-leal-executed-in-texas-despite-obama-appeal/

and

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-17/news/os-boyfriend-arrested-fatal-stabbing-20120516_1_multiple-stab-wounds-deputies-car

and

http://articles.boston.com/2011-09-28/news/30213607_1_illegal-immigrant-law-enforcement-support-center-customs-enforcement

Just to list a few.

So don't sit there and tell me illegal aliens don't commit crimes like murder and rape when they do.

And legal immigrants, as well as American-born citizens, don't commit crimes like rape and murder? Thats news to be, buddy.

Here are some articles I pulled off of the front page of the Fox News crime section, all Americans.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/22/sandusky-jury-has-reached-verdict/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/23/man-arrested-in-triple-murder-near-columbia-university/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/24/mo-mom-charged-after-10-year-old-found-in-closet/

It took me all of 40 seconds to link those articles, so your argument isn't very strong in that department.

[Lanx]

It's also pretty sad when some people here try shoving their opinions down other's throats and act like you are so wrong because you don't agree with them, and you don't agree that it is ok to break the law, which is what some of these guys are encouraging here. Like it or not.

And legal immigrants, as well as American-born citizens, don't commit crimes like rape and murder? Thats news to be, buddy.

Here are some articles I pulled off of the front page of the Fox News crime section, all Americans.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/22/sandusky-jury-has-reached-verdict/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/23/man-arrested-in-triple-murder-near-columbia-university/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/24/mo-mom-charged-after-10-year-old-found-in-closet/

It took me all of 40 seconds to link those articles, so your argument isn't very strong in that department.

I don't recall ever saying that Americans don't commit crimes, now did I? No, I didn't. I'm very well aware that Americans commit crimes too. The point is that some of the people posting on this thread seem to think that illegal immigrants don't commit crimes when, in fact, they do. Again, I'm well aware that Americans commit very heinous crimes as well. Any one with half a brain could tell you that. Don't try and imply that I said something that I never said. Oh and by the way, not that those links aren't good, because they are, but I wouldn't exactly call Fox News a very credible news source.

[StoppingTime]

I don't recall ever saying that Americans don't commit crimes, now did I? No, I didn't. I'm very well aware that Americans commit crimes too. The point is that some of the people posting on this thread seem to think that illegal immigrants don't commit crimes when they do. Again, I'm well aware that Americans commit very heinous crimes as well. Any one with half a brain could tell you that. Don't try and imply that I said something that I never said.

Nobody has said that undocumented immigrants don't commit crimes.

[Lanx]

Nobody has said that undocumented immigrants don't commit crimes.

Umm, look at post # 82 again on this thread.... YOUR OWN POST, where YOU, YOURSELF said no, when I stated: "But, again, no it's not despicable.... Because, I say yet again, just like I said previously, many illegal immigrants, not all, but many, do commit murder and rape when they are in this country." .... How quick you forget what you said.

[shyguy21]

and you don't agree that it is ok to break the law, which is what some of these guys are encouraging here. Like it or not.=
Can you spot when someone actually said we should encourage illegal immigrants to come to this country? No! We've encouraged you to be empathetic towards people in a much worse situation than you. You and Tacitus just feel like you're better than people because you came out of your mom's vagina on American owned land. Do you get it now? ;)

[Lanx]

Can you spot when someone actually said we should encourage illegal immigrants to come to this country? No! We've encouraged you to be empathetic towards people in a much worse situation than you. You and Tacitus just feel like you're better than people because you came out of your mom's vagina on American owned land. Do you get it now? ;)

You sir, are ridiculous. I highly doubt you are even American. If you aren't, you have no right to be even discussing this. You have no idea what I feel. I don't think I'm better than anyone else to be honest. However, I do not care about some illegal criminal's situation to be honest. All I care about is that they need to be deported. They are breaking the law by being here illegally, and it is wrong. What part of that don't you get? :)

[StoppingTime]

Umm, look at post # 82 again on this thread.... YOUR OWN POST, where YOU, YOURSELF said no, when I stated: "But, again, no it's not despicable.... Because, I say yet again, just like I said previously, many illegal immigrants, not all, but many, do commit murder and rape when they are in this country." .... How quick you forget what you said.

I thought you were inferring that they committed more crime than US citizens. I wasn't clear, you are correct.


You sir, are ridiculous.

Once again, taking personal shots in a debate are useless.


I highly doubt you are even American. If you aren't, you have no right to be even discussing this.

Why? People in other countries "aren't allowed to discuss US matters?" Seriously?


You have no idea what I feel. I don't think I'm better than anyone else to be honest. However, I do not care about some illegal criminal's situation to be honest. All I care about is that they need to be deported. They are breaking the law by being here illegally, and it is wrong. What part of that don't you get? :)


The part that all laws aren't created with good intentions. Just because it is a law, doesn't always make it right.

[Cicero]

Can you spot when someone actually said we should encourage illegal immigrants to come to this country? No! We've encouraged you to be empathetic towards people in a much worse situation than you. You and Tacitus just feel like you're better than people because you came out of your mom's vagina on American owned land. Do you get it now? ;)

Ya I can Korashnk said that bad laws have to be broken, and either you or stopping time said the same thing. Why should others from OTHER countries be apart of this debate, they will probably agree so they too can get into america, plus, it's not their country. We can't say what president should be the president of France, if we live in America. Our opinions would then, be worth as much as a piece of dog shit.

How is it not right that just anyone can come and live here? They have rules with Pedos, something about they cant live near a school. So why can't we have rules for ILLEGAL immigrants? We even sentence people the death penalty, so your argument is invalid that "Doesn't make it right" (stopping time).

[Lanx]

People in other countries "aren't allowed to discuss US matters?" Seriously?

Think what you like. But most countries have enough of their own problems to deal with, let alone worry about what my Country is doing.




The part that all laws aren't created with good intentions. Just because it is a law, doesn't always make it right.

My God, you're dense if you can't see that being in a country illegally is a crime. I don't know how I can make it any clearer to you that it is not ok to violate a nation's immigration laws and jump in front of everyone else who s waiting for a Green Card. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

[StoppingTime]

Think what you like. But most countries have enough of their own problems to deal with, let alone worry about what my Country is doing.

And you are to dictate what people can and cannot say about "your country?"



My God, you're dense if you can't see that being in a country illegally is a crime. I don't know how I can make it any clearer to you that it is not ok to violate a nation's immigration laws and jump in front of everyone else who s waiting for a Green Card. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

Yes, I understand it is illegal. It is also a poorly set up system, and it needs to be changed. And until then, I don't see the problem with them coming and getting jobs. But, that isn't even what this debate is about. It's about the DREAM Act.



Ya I can Korashnk said that bad laws have to be broken, and either you or stopping time said the same thing. Why should others from OTHER countries be apart of this debate, they will probably agree so they too can get into america,

I'm sure that's exactly what they are doing. Agreeing, so they can "get into America." That's how it works here.


plus, it's not their country. We can't say what president should be the president of France, if we live in America. Our opinions would then, be worth as much as a piece of dog shit.

Yes, you can do that. Nobody has to listen, but they have a right to.


How is it not right that just anyone can come and live here? They have rules with Pedos, something about they cant live near a school. So why can't we have rules for ILLEGAL immigrants? We even sentence people the death penalty, so your argument is invalid that "Doesn't make it right" (stopping time).

Because undocumented immigrants and pedophiles are two very different things.
And the argument that all laws aren't always correct. What's incorrect about that? Do you still aprove of slavery?

[shyguy21]

You sir, are ridiculous. I highly doubt you are even American. If you aren't, you have no right to be even discussing this. You have no idea what I feel. I don't think I'm better than anyone else to be honest. However, I do not care about some illegal criminal's situation to be honest. All I care about is that they need to be deported. They are breaking the law by being here illegally, and it is wrong. What part of that don't you get? :)
First of all, yes I am American, and that has NOTHING to do with how I feel. Even if you don't think you're better than others, thats CERTAINLY how you come across. You've shown absolutely NO empathy or understanding towards someone who wants to better their kids' life and doesn't have the time or money to go through the immigration process. Furthermore, you act as if you're talking about a thing, not a person. And lastly, you also act as if illegal immigrants are here for the sake of breaking the law.

They clearly aren't that educated if they see reason to break the law by setting foot in this country illegally.
OBVIOUSLY, its not like one day they said, "hey lets jump the border, hahaha" That's what I don't get. Your blatant misunderstanding of another human beings struggle, not the fact you don't think illegal Americans should be in this country. You also OBVIOUSLY don't have a viable solution if you think they should all be deported. Maybe make it easier and more affordable to BECOME an immigrant.

[Lanx]

And you are to dictate what people can and cannot say about "your country?"

Errmmmm, NO, that's not what I said. Re-read what I said and draw your own conclusions.

It's about the DREAM Act.

Which is, in itself, a stupid Act.

[Cicero]

Think what you like. But most countries have enough of their own problems to deal with, let alone worry about what my Country is doing.






My God, you're dense if you can't see that being in a country illegally is a crime. I don't know how I can make it any clearer to you that it is not ok to violate a nation's immigration laws and jump in front of everyone else who s waiting for a Green Card. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

They don't understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL. They probably wanna give every ILLEGAL immigrant $1,000 while they're at it. Just give them a better life, sushi every night, Filet Mignon with eggs for the morning. Damn, I wanna live in the great fantasy land they are thinking of.

(to others)
Who knows, maybe, just maybe, these liberal bimbos wanna give illegals free healthcare, $1,000, education, housing, and food! Let's just rack up this countrys debt even more, so eventually. China will own us. Which they already could, cause Incase you didn't know (which they probably don't report on CNN) our country's debt is more than $15,000,000,000,000.00+

[StoppingTime]

They don't understand the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL. They probably wanna give every ILLEGAL immigrant $1,000 while they're at it. Just give them a better life, sushi every night, Filet Mignon with eggs for the morning. Damn, I wanna live in the great fantasy land they are thinking of.

(to others)
Who knows, maybe, just maybe, these liberal bimbos wanna give illegals free healthcare, $1,000, education, housing, and food! Let's just rack up this countrys debt even more, so eventually. China will own us. Which they already could, cause Incase you didn't know (which they probably don't report on CNN) our country's debt is more than $15,000,000,000,000.00+

I'm so done with you. I understand, very well, the difference between legal and illegal. I don't want to do a single damn thing that you said, mostly, because you made up every last part of that post.
You didn't answer my question though. Are all laws always correct?

[Cicero]

First of all, yes I am American, and that has NOTHING to do with how I feel. Even if you don't think you're better than others, thats CERTAINLY how you come across. You've shown absolutely NO empathy or understanding towards someone who wants to better their kids' life and doesn't have the time or money to go through the immigration process. Furthermore, you act as if you're talking about a thing, not a person. And lastly, you also act as if illegal immigrants are here for the sake of breaking the law.


OBVIOUSLY, its not like one day they said, "hey lets jump the border, hahaha" That's what I don't get. Your blatant misunderstanding of another human beings struggle, not the fact you don't think illegal Americans should be in this country. You also OBVIOUSLY don't have a viable solution if you think they should all be deported. Maybe make it easier and more affordable to BECOME an immigrant.




You shouldn't show empathy by breaking the law. That's called disrespect to the government. Instead of always deporting them, put them in a poorly supported prison on the border, or even have Mexico give us a small piece of property to store the people.


The only thing I see unfit, is the marriage equality act. So yes, I guess their some flawed government stuff

Oh, and our country is in debt (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/) by more than $15 trillion. So yes, that is true and factual. Liberals wanna spend more money than we even have. Big government, big spending.

[StoppingTime]

You shouldn't show empathy by breaking the law. That's called disrespect to the government. Instead of always deporting them, put them in a poorly supported prison on the border, or even have Mexico give us a small piece of property to store the people.

Do you know what an internment camp is? Because you are describing something very similar to one.
And, I don't think we "store people" in America. They are people.


The only thing I see unfit, is the marriage equality act. So yes, I guess their some flawed government stuff

That's it. In the entire history of the US, that's the only flawed part of the government.


Question: Where does the debt come into play here?

[Cicero]

Do you know what an internment camp is? Because you are describing something very similar to one.
And, I don't think we "store people" in America. They are people.



That's it. In the entire history of the US, that's the only flawed part of the government.


Question: Where does the debt come into play here?

I never said store people in America! Now your just making shit up, I said we should store them in Mexico. Mexico should give us a little land for putting up with their people always breaking our laws, raping our women, and killing people.

That's the only law I can think of currently. Maybe the prohibition? But that did turn out to be a good thing, cause many people made money from that.


We can't afford for illegal immigrants to live here, illegally. Nor can we afford to keep deporting them. (I mean we could afford it, it's just racking up our debt even more)

[shyguy21]

You shouldn't show empathy by breaking the law. How am I breaking the law by showing empathy? Or do you not know the definition of the word? Here you go: empathy-the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another
That's called disrespect to the government.
My god, you sound so brainwashed. Do I have to "respect" the government in everything I do? Do I need to say the pledge when I go to bed and when I wake up in the morning?
Instead of always deporting them, put them in a poorly supported prison on the border
Should we put their kids in prison too? Apparently, all you want is for them to suffer.
or even have Mexico give us a small piece of property to store the people. Why should they have to pay for the fact that we can't secure our side of the border. THEY don't have an immigrant problem, WE do.

I never said store people in America! Now your just making shit up, I said we should store them in Mexico. Mexico should give us a little land for putting up with their people always breaking our laws, raping our women, and killing people.
What the fuck are you even saying? Should we pay Lebanon, Kuwait, and Iraq?

[StoppingTime]

I never said store people in America!

I'm sorry. American's storing people. There you go.

Now your just making shit up, I said we should store them in Mexico. Mexico should give us a little land for putting up with their people always breaking our laws, raping our women, and killing people.

They climbing in yo' windows, snatchin yo' people up......
You do realize, (well, I guess not, or this conversation wouldn't happen) that the majoirty of them are law abiding people. And there are many more citizens who are doing this than illegal immigrants.


That's the only law I can think of currently. Maybe the prohibition? But that did turn out to be a good thing, cause many people made money from that.

Prohibition, slavery, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, so forth and so on....

[Lovely24]

Whoa, I'm so confused, this conversation made several sharp left and right turns. Lanx and Tacitus are extreme right-wing conservatives. Both of them are talking out of their asses. I'm conservative, but this argument isn't even liberal vs. conservative, it's liberal vs. stupidity. If there is something I hate more than liberals(no offense, just an example), it's a stupid wise crackass who pretends to be conservative. The liberal points do make sense. 1.25% of the "conservative" make good points. I just wanted to say this because, again, this topic went EVERYWHERE, it's gone so far it's almost lost all it's purpose. Another, Lanx and Tacitus, you two need mental help. Enough said. And just another thing, as I read over this, I was laughing inside at pitiful attempts to be "right". ( Again, only Lanx and Tacitus)

[Korashk]

The point is that some of the people posting on this thread seem to think that illegal immigrants don't commit crimes when, in fact, they do.
Nobody in this thread suggested anything of the sort. You just think they did and have been running with that assumption for the last few pages of discussion. It's getting sad.

Also, whoever neg-repped me for this post (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1778184#post1778184) with the comment "No they weren't"; it was uncalled for. I may technically have been wrong (they were here on non-immigrant visas), but the intent behind my post was correct. The people that flew those planes into the towers were in the country legally.

[Cicero]

How am I breaking the law by showing empathy? Or do you not know the definition of the word? Here you go: empathy-the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another

My god, you sound so brainwashed. Do I have to "respect" the government in everything I do? Do I need to say the pledge when I go to bed and when I wake up in the morning?

Should we put their kids in prison too? Apparently, all you want is for them to suffer.
Why should they have to pay for the fact that we can't secure our side of the border. THEY don't have an immigrant problem, WE do.


What the fuck are you even saying? Should we pay Lebanon, Kuwait, and Iraq?

There should be no age limit.

[StoppingTime]

There should be no age limit.

Yes, let's punish innocent children. That sounds good. Send them into a cage.

[Cicero]

Yes, let's punish innocent children. That sounds good. Send them into a cage.

Aren't they braking the law by entering illegally? Yes.

Next time debate, not negative rep.

[StoppingTime]

Aren't they braking the law by entering illegally? Yes.

Next time debate, not negative rep.

I'm sorry man, but seriously, punishing innocent children over things they cannot control, how is that even remotely fair?
And yes, that comment deserves 100% neg-rep. I don't regret it at all.

[Cicero]

I'm sorry man, but seriously, punishing innocent children over things they cannot control, how is that even remotely fair?
And yes, that comment deserves 100% neg-rep. I don't regret it at all.

I'm sure you don't regret it.

Well, maybe they should just be sent back to a foster care in Mexico.

[StoppingTime]

I'm sure you don't regret it.

Well, maybe they should just be sent back to a foster care in Mexico.

Judging from your posts, you clearly need to rethink your morals, or maybe, get some.
Tonight. Imagine what it would be like to be sent to this "prison" you imagine. Then, after maybe being there, almost dying of starvation (since no money goes to it), you are taken back to where you came from, and thrown with people you've never met in your life.
It's easier to type this all out, isn't it. Until it actually happens. This is why people with these opinions shouldn't be allowed to run for public office.

[shyguy21]

Well, maybe they should just be sent back to a foster care in Mexico.
Wow, remember they're people, and more specifically, they're children. You take ruining someones life and family REALLY lightly don't you? Oh yeah, as long as the government angel says so it's alright.

[Cicero]

Judging from your posts, you clearly need to rethink your morals, or maybe, get some.
Tonight. Imagine what it would be like to be sent to this "prison" you imagine. Then, after maybe being there, almost dying of starvation (since no money goes to it), you are taken back to where you came from, and thrown with people you've never met in your life.
It's easier to type this all out, isn't it. Until it actually happens. This is why people with these opinions shouldn't be allowed to run for public office.

I've imagined it already, and they wouldn't be starving, they would get something that's cheap in food. But high in calorie. Like chicken gizzard, or flank steak. Idk, just something really cheap.

[shyguy21]

I've imagined it already, and they wouldn't be starving, they would get something that's cheap in food. But high in calorie. Like chicken gizzard, or flank steak. Idk, just something really cheap.

At this point, You're either trolling, or mentally unstable.

[Cicero]

At this point, You're either trolling, or mentally unstable.

Putting them in prison for breaking the law. Feeding them a cheap, high calorie food. How does that make me unstable?

[shyguy21]

Putting them in prison for breaking the law. Feeding them a cheap, high calorie food. How does that make me unstable?
:rolleyes:
Because you act like these people are your toys. Illegal immigrants are people also, and no matter how much you don't like them, you HAVE to share a continent and a border with them. Shipping them off to some secluded prison like you've been time warped to the fifties when this was still acceptable isn't the solution.

[Cicero]

:rolleyes:
Because you act like these people are your toys. Illegal immigrants are people also, and no matter how much you don't like them, you HAVE to share a continent and a border with them. Shipping them off to some secluded prison like you've been time warped to the fifties when this was still acceptable isn't the solution.

Sure it's not great. But how else will they learn they're lesson? What were obviously doing isn't working.

[shyguy21]

Well, MAYBE, if we made it easier and less expensive to BECOME a citizen, we wouldn't have a problem.

[double r]

imagine how full those prisons will be if we send Illegals to our prisons, it is not the solution. Its not fair how Illegals have the right to skip the process like that, my family had to wait years to come to this country and these people run across a fence and are free, they do not have to cross seas or mass lands they have it the easy way, and plus they do not pay their taxes or learn our language. Sure I feel some sympathy for them, but there are better ways to do it.

[shyguy21]

imagine how full those prisons will be if we send Illegals to our prisons, it is not the solution. Its not fair how Illegals have the right to skip the process like that, my family had to wait years to come to this country and these people run across a fence and are free, they do not have to cross seas or mass lands they have it the easy way,
If you don't mind me asking, what country did your parents come from?
and plus they do not pay their taxes We've already established that most do
or learn our language Lots of legal immigrants don't know English, and you are no more an American than the next person because you do.

[AZCowboy]

We've already established that most do

You do realize that in order to pay your Federal and State income taxes, you are required by law to have a Social Security Number. Something that Illegal Immigrant Criminals do not generally possess, and if they do, most of the time they stolen Social Security Numbers. That is a result of Identity Theft, one of the biggest crles committed by these so-called "victims who are fleeing their homelands in order to save their lives from the drug cartels and drug wars". Give me a break. They are criminals. Nothing more, nothing less. That goes for ther kids too. I'm pretty sure at some point during their childhood, those kids have found out they were illegals and therefore they are old enough to know it is wrong to be here illegally. I'm sick of hearing that bullshit excuse that we shouldn't punish the kids. Bullshit. Most of them are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. Oh and that bastard Obama is no better, especially by saying it is "the right thing to do." Especially when it's nt the right thngies to do.

[shyguy21]

You do realize that in order to pay your Federal and State income taxes, you are required by law to have a Social Security Number. Something that Illegal Immigrant Criminals do not generally possess, and if they do, most of the time they stolen Social Security Numbers. That is a result of Identity Theft, one of the biggest crles committed by these so-called "victims who are fleeing their homelands in order to save their lives from the drug cartels and drug wars".Okay I'll give you this one, but not all do steal.
That goes for ther kids too. I'm pretty sure at some point during their childhood, those kids have found out they were illegals and therefore they are old enough to know it is wrong to be here illegally. That is utter bullshit, if you're parents brought you and your family here illegally, when that kid turns 12 or 13, he should run back across the border by himself? I'm sick of hearing that bullshit excuse that we shouldn't punish the kids. Bullshit. Most of them are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. You can't punish a minor, who doesn't have any other criminal activity, who was brought here by their parents' choice. Oh and that bastard Obama is no better, especially by saying it is "the right thing to do." Especially when it's nt the right thngies to do."This bill would provide conditional permanent residency to certain illegal individuals of good moral character who graduate from U.S. high schools, arrived in the United States as minors, and lived in the country continuously for at least five years prior to the bill's enactment."
I fail to see how that hurts or disturbs an American citizen.

[Lovely24]

I fail to see how that hurts or disturbs an American citizen.

I don't either, but how was that supposed to hurt an American citizen??

[shyguy21]

I don't either, but how was that supposed to hurt an American citizen??

Just because that's the only reason I could come up with, as to why this bill would be so hated. Especially considering it helps the children, not the actual people(parents) who made the choice to come illlegally and bring their children.

[double r]

If you don't mind me asking, what country did your parents come from?
We've already established that most do
Lots of legal immigrants don't know English, and you are no more an American than the next person because you do.

CCCP as political refuges for asylum

[Lovely24]

Just because that's the only reason I could come up with, as to why this bill would be so hated. Especially considering it helps the children, not the actual people who made the choice to come illlegally

Okay??

[shyguy21]

Okay?? I meant the bill helps the innocent minors,not the parents who brought them here illegally.

[Lovely24]

Whatever, like Murdoc, I'm done with this topic, it's gone so awry and off-track.

[Lanx]

Okay "This bill would provide conditional permanent residency to certain illegal individuals of good moral character who graduate from U.S. high schools, arrived in the United States as minors, and lived in the country continuously for at least five years prior to the bill's enactment."
I fail to see how that hurts or disturbs an American citizen.

It hurts legal American citizens because unemployed Americans who are qualified and are legal US Citizens and Green Card Holders are not able to get a job when they are qualified and they are passed over instead for some illegal criminal gets the job instead. That is unacceptable. If they are going to stay, then they need to damn well pay the back taxes that they owe, every single penny, regardless of their situation. They also need to learn English fluently.

[Korashk]

It hurts legal American citizens because unemployed Americans who are qualified and are legal US Citizens and Green Card Holders are not able to get a job when they are qualified and they are passed over instead for some illegal criminal gets the job instead. That is unacceptable. If they are going to stay, then they need to damn well pay the back taxes that they owe, every single penny, regardless of their situation. They also need to learn English fluently.
This simply doesn't happen in the real life with any sort of regularity. Illegal immigrants don't take jobs from American citizens.

[ImCoolBeans]

It hurts legal American citizens because unemployed Americans who are qualified and are legal US Citizens and Green Card Holders are not able to get a job when they are qualified and they are passed over instead for some illegal criminal gets the job instead. That is unacceptable. If they are going to stay, then they need to damn well pay the back taxes that they owe, every single penny, regardless of their situation. They also need to learn English fluently.

What? Illegal immigrants get bottom of the barrel, low paying, miserable jobs that the rest of us, being the patriots we are, are too stuck up, arrogant and posh to even consider working.

[Cicero]

American citizens deserve the first choice in jobs, then, what we don't want. The illegals should have

[Lanx]

This simply doesn't happen in the real life with any sort of regularity. Illegal immigrants don't take jobs from American citizens.

Actually dude, yes it does happen in real life with regularity and yes they do take jobs from American citizens.

What? Illegal immigrants get bottom of the barrel, low paying, miserable jobs that the rest of us, being the patriots we are, are too stuck up, arrogant and posh to even consider working.

That's right, they want to come here illegally and break the law, then they deserve lower paying jobs, as long as they pay their back taxes and get a Green Card, otherwise, they need to leave and stop breaking the laws.

American citizens deserve the first choice in jobs, then, what we don't want. The illegals should have

Agreed 100%

[ImCoolBeans]

American citizens deserve the first choice in jobs, then, what we don't want. The illegals should have

And how exactly do you think it works now?

To be frank, you sound pretty extreme and unreasonable. Let's look at the original post in the thread again. This is giving the children who were brought here, most likely without even fully knowing what was going on, a chance to become legal and be better than illegal immigrants who live under the radar. The whole purpose of this is to give them a chance to better their lives. Why don't they deserve that? Why don't they deserve to be Americans like any other citizen? They were brought here as children with their parents, they weren't 35 year olds who crossed over the boarder thinking how badass they were getting passed our shitty border control.

The majority of you obviously haven't familiarized yourselves enough with the bill, the restrictions and standards that go along with it, or the original post here showing the requirements for this. So if you plan to keep babbling and spewing shit can you guys just stop?

[Cicero]

And how exactly do you think it works now?

To be frank, you sound pretty extreme and unreasonable. Let's look at the original post in the thread again. This is giving the children who were brought here, most likely without even fully knowing what was going on, a chance to become legal and be better than illegal immigrants who live under the radar. The whole purpose of this is to give them a chance to better their lives. Why don't they deserve that? Why don't they deserve to be Americans like any other citizen? They were brought here as children with their parents, they weren't 35 year olds who crossed over the boarder thinking how badass they were getting passed our shitty border control.

The majority of you obviously haven't familiarized yourselves enough with the bill, the restrictions and standards that go along with it, or the original post here showing the requirements for this. So if you plan to keep babbling and spewing shit can you guys just stop?

It's not really that bad, they still get jobs which will pay for their taxes, food, housing etc. and they have a stable job. If you do certain crimes, you lose certain privileges. If illegal immigrants want to avoid paying taxes (because you have to have a social security card, in order to have one you have to be a citizen) they should receive the second hand jobs that actual citizens don't want.
If you do certain things as a teenager, like sell drugs, get caught doing drugs, or theft. You either go to a behavioral school or Department of Juvenile Justice or you get put on house arrest. Those teenagers who are put in one of those would say "This is unfair, I don't deserve this." but they broke the law, so they do deserve that. Just like Illegal Immigrants breaking the law. They barely deserve jobs, but we need to get stuff done in society, so instead of them being able to do whatever they want, we should give them jobs that legal American citizens do not want.

[ImCoolBeans]

It's not really that bad, they still get jobs which will pay for their taxes, food, housing etc. and they have a stable job. If you do certain crimes, you lose certain privileges. If illegal immigrants want to avoid paying taxes (because you have to have a social security card, in order to have one you have to be a citizen) they should receive the second hand jobs that actual citizens don't want.
If you do certain things as a teenager, like sell drugs, get caught doing drugs, or theft. You either go to a behavioral school or Department of Juvenile Justice or you get put on house arrest. Those teenagers who are put in one of those would say "This is unfair, I don't deserve this." but they broke the law, so they do deserve that. Just like Illegal Immigrants breaking the law. They barely deserve jobs, but we need to get stuff done in society, so instead of them being able to do whatever they want, we should give them jobs that legal American citizens do not want.

No. You're not seeing the main point of this. They came here as children. It was not their conscious decision. They didn't choose it, their parents did. This is a way for them to dig themselves out of the hole they've been put in, and it isn't just handed to them. If you read the original post you'll see that there are rules and guidelines which need to be followed. There are time restrictions and standards that have to be met. This isn't just a free-for-all of handing out citizenship, and you aren't realizing that.

Also the load about teenagers going to behavioral school, juvenile corrections facilities or being put on house arrest is total bullshit. If that were the case then I would know many people in that situation, and I don't. Poor example, poor support.

[Cicero]

No. You're not seeing the main point of this. They came here as children. It was not their conscious decision. They didn't choose it, their parents did. This is a way for them to dig themselves out of the hole they've been put in, and it isn't just handed to them. If you read the original post you'll see that there are rules and guidelines which need to be followed. There are time restrictions and standards that have to be met. This isn't just a free-for-all of handing out citizenship, and you aren't realizing that.

Also the load about teenagers going to behavioral school, juvenile corrections facilities or being put on house arrest is total bullshit. If that were the case then I would know many people in that situation, and I don't. Poor example, poor support.

Well here, if your caught selling and/or doing drugs. You will either be on house arrest, go to juve, or hebavioral school, or just behavioral school and house arrest.

[ImCoolBeans]

Well here, if your caught selling and/or doing drugs. You will either be on house arrest, go to juve, or hebavioral school, or just behavioral school and house arrest.

Lets post about the topic of the thread, yeah?

[AZCowboy]

I don't care if they were brought here as children or not. I don't care if it wasn't their fault. The fact remains that they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND NONE OF YOU SEEM TO REALIZE THAT. Just because they were brought here as kids does not give them a right to jump in front of every other person in this country who is LEGAL and a US CITIZEN or LEGAL GREEN CARD HOLDER. They should not be given special privileges because their parents chose to break the law and bring them here illegally. That's not my problem. I am sick and tired of hearing "Oh well they were brought here as kids, so they deserve a break". Who gives a fuck. They are here illegally and there is no fucking excuse for that whatsoever. I don't give a fuck what that bastard in the White House says either. It is NOT the right thing to do. We should not be rewarding criminals. Period.

[shyguy21]

I don't care if they were brought here as children or not. I don't care if it wasn't their fault. The fact remains that they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND NONE OF YOU SEEM TO REALIZE THAT. Just because they were brought here as kids does not give them a right to jump in front of every other person in this country who is LEGAL and a US CITIZEN or LEGAL GREEN CARD HOLDER. They should not be given special privileges because their parents chose to break the law and bring them here illegally. That's not my problem. I am sick and tired of hearing "Oh well they were brought here as kids, so they deserve a break". Who gives a fuck. They are here illegally and there is no fucking excuse for that whatsoever. I don't give a fuck what that bastard in the White House says either. It is NOT the right thing to do. We should not be rewarding criminals. Period.

I give a fuck. What YOU don't understand is that if they were minors, and they didn't make a conscience decision to be here illegally, you can't punish them for what their parents did to them. You can't just take away someone's life like that and say, "Sorry, your parents fucked you over."

[ImCoolBeans]

I don't care if they were brought here as children or not. I don't care if it wasn't their fault. The fact remains that they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND NONE OF YOU SEEM TO REALIZE THAT. Just because they were brought here as kids does not give them a right to jump in front of every other person in this country who is LEGAL and a US CITIZEN or LEGAL GREEN CARD HOLDER. They should not be given special privileges because their parents chose to break the law and bring them here illegally. That's not my problem. I am sick and tired of hearing "Oh well they were brought here as kids, so they deserve a break". Who gives a fuck. They are here illegally and there is no fucking excuse for that whatsoever. I don't give a fuck what that bastard in the White House says either. It is NOT the right thing to do. We should not be rewarding criminals. Period.

Hah. Haha.

That made me laugh. Thanks for making me smile, buddy :)

These people had no chance, no choice, you're just saying that they should suffer or be thrown back to their country with no regard. They aren't criminals, they were basically forced into this situation and until now there wasn't a good way for them to get out of it, now there is. This doesn't apply to every illegal immigrant, which it seems like you seem to believe. It applies to (about) just under a million people; the rest who came here as adults are still to be handled as they are now - deportation. The people who came here with intentions to live off of the grid will be punished for it, the people who came here as innocent children with their parents will not. What is so hard to see about that?

They aren't jumping in front of us, they aren't stepping on our toes. Once they're legal they will be paying the same taxes we pay. Do you not understand that? I don't know how simply it can be put. They aren't taking desirable jobs that legal citizens are getting ripped off over. They're cleaning kitchens and back rooms in grocery stores. They aren't getting some easy break, nobody is going to show up at their door and say "Here is your citizenship! You're now an American!" They need to work for it, as said in the original post along with the guidelines for this.

All in all, it really doesn't matter how many fucks you do or do not give, because "that bastard in the White House" made it happen, and it's here, bud.

[StoppingTime]

I don't care if they were brought here as children or not. I don't care if it wasn't their fault. The fact remains that they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND NONE OF YOU SEEM TO REALIZE THAT.

You are correct, it is illegal. Does that make it right, or fair? No. The law is not always right. That has been proven many times in the past.


Just because they were brought here as kids does not give them a right to jump in front of every other person in this country who is LEGAL and a US CITIZEN or LEGAL GREEN CARD HOLDER.

They aren't jumping in front of US citizens or Green Card Holders. If they were, they wouldn't be getting jobs because the amazing US citizens would have already taken them. But, the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are taking very low quality jobs.
And, this isn't even what the debate is about. It's about kids who are in college who can stay.


They should not be given special privileges because their parents chose to break the law and bring them here illegally.

But it isn't their fault! You seem to be acting like some cruel dictator using them as your Sims characters.


That's not my problem. I am sick and tired of hearing "Oh well they were brought here as kids, so they deserve a break". Who gives a fuck.

I think they do. Why don't they deserve to have a chance. (Don't you dare tell me, "because they are illegal.")


They are here illegally and there is no fucking excuse for that whatsoever. I don't give a fuck what that bastard in the White House says either. It is NOT the right thing to do. We should not be rewarding criminals. Period.

We aren't rewarding them. They are earning it. And, here's an "excuse." It isn't in their control.

[ImCoolBeans]

I think they do. Why don't they deserve to have a chance. (Don't you dare tell me, "because they are illegal.")

Yes could you please give us a good, credible reason other than "BECAUSE"? I would really like to see good reason as to why they don't deserve a chance if they work for it, other than "BECAUSE THEY'RE ILLEGAL" or "BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A FUCK"

[Cicero]

I give a fuck. What YOU don't understand is that if they were minors, and they didn't make a conscience decision to be here illegally, you can't punish them for what their parents did to them. You can't just take away someone's life like that and say, "Sorry, your parents fucked you over."

People suffer for what their parents do or have done a lot. Their parents shouldve known what might happen to their kids, so they took that risk. This is a great way to get around the system. But the law is the law, it doesn't matter if the kid is only 5, they are still a Illegal Immigrant that has no right to be here. What's the worst that would happen, they go back to where they were born? Ya, sounds terrifying lol

How are they earning staying here? Not paying taxes? Stealing American jobs? Joining gangs? Although, if you sell marijuana that does make them a lot of money, so props to them for smuggling marijuana from mexico. Their are plenty of Mexican jobs in Mexico, because in Mexico big corporations can pay them less. So there are plenty of jobs, so they get a chance to work hard :) Better yet, the Mexican law says they can start work at 14, so they get double the experience and a lot of time to legally sign up to be an American citizen.

[ImCoolBeans]

People suffer for what their parents do or have done a lot. Their parents shouldve known what might happen to their kids, so they took that risk. This is a great way to get around the system. But the law is the law, it doesn't matter if the kid is only 5, they are still a Illegal Immigrant that has no right to be here. What's the worst that would happen, they go back to where they were born? Ya, sounds terrifying lol

With drug wars, murder, and crime rates like they have in Mexico, yes it actually is terrifying. Get a grip man. Look at the big picture here, as Americans we present ourselves to be this great country where tolerance and acceptance is one of our priorities, but you're squashing that like a bug, and it's pretty sad to see.

Are you not understanding that once they're legal they'll be paying taxes, contributing to the community and country just as much as any other citizen? The people taking advantage of this opportunity obviously want to be legal - here it is - here is their chance to do it. It's not a simple, 1-2-3 process, it's time consuming and they aren't even guaranteed citizenship if they attempt. You really need to familiarize yourself with this before you jump into the thread.

[shyguy21]

People suffer for what their parents do or have done a lot. Use the fact that otrher people suffer as a basis of making these people suffer... Their parents shouldve known what might happen to their kids, so they took that risk. :yes:Yes, they took the risk of bringing their kids to America, versus them getting shot or kidnapped in Mexico This is a great way to get around the system.:yeah: I know, its a great LEGAL way to get around the corrupted system. What's the worst that would happen, they go back to where they were born? Ya, sounds terrifying lol I know it does (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadereyta_Jim%C3%A9nez_massacre)
Although, if you sell marijuana that does make them a lot of money, so props to them for smuggling marijuana from mexico. Haha, this made me laugh. Their are plenty of Mexican jobs in Mexico, because in Mexico big corporations can pay them less. You realize people don't work just so they can say they have a job, they work for MONEY, and Mexicans get dirt from those corporations. So there are plenty of jobs, so they get a chance to work hard :) What does this even mean?Better yet, the Mexican law says they can start work at 14, so they get double the experience Lol, many states in the US allow people to start working at 14 and 15, whats your point? and a lot of time to legally sign up to be an American citizen. With the money they don't have, and don't forget the growing threat of the drug cartels. They might not have "a lot of time"

[Thunduhbuhlt]

People suffer for what their parents do or have done a lot. Their parents shouldve known what might happen to their kids, so they took that risk. This is a great way to get around the system. But the law is the law, it doesn't matter if the kid is only 5, they are still a Illegal Immigrant that has no right to be here. What's the worst that would happen, they go back to where they were born? Ya, sounds terrifying lol

How are they earning staying here? Not paying taxes? Stealing American jobs? Joining gangs? Although, if you sell marijuana that does make them a lot of money, so props to them for smuggling marijuana from mexico. Their are plenty of Mexican jobs in Mexico, because in Mexico big corporations can pay them less. So there are plenty of jobs, so they get a chance to work hard :) Better yet, the Mexican law says they can start work at 14, so they get double the experience and a lot of time to legally sign up to be an American citizen.
Look, you don't know how bad it is down there in Mexico and in a lot of other places. Have you ever been there outside of a resort? I assume not since you lack talking about the drug cartels the street shootings and the gangs all over the fucking place. Mexico is a disaster. South American countries are a disaster. And becoming a citizen isn't easy. In fact it takes between 5-10 years on average to become a U.S. Citizen. You have to reside here for 5 years, pass a whole bunch of tests, and fill out a fuck load of paper work. One of my best friends parents were illegal immigrants and it took them 7 years to become citizens. And the only jobs they take from us are farming jobs and most Americans don't want to slave outside ever single day in the hot summer weather and plant, tend, and harvest crops. Mexicans especially are very hard workers and they do the job right. I am sure if people were willing to get off of their asses and do that work, they could find a job just as easy or easier than an illegal immigrant. Your entire post sounds very ignorant and quite frankly closed minded.

[Cicero]

With drug wars, murder, and crime rates like they have in Mexico, yes it actually is terrifying. Get a grip man. Look at the big picture here, as Americans we present ourselves to be this great country where tolerance and acceptance is one of our priorities, but you're squashing that like a bug, and it's pretty sad to see.

Are you not understanding that once they're legal they'll be paying taxes, contributing to the community and country just as much as any other citizen? The people taking advantage of this opportunity obviously want to be legal - here it is - here is their chance to do it. It's not a simple, 1-2-3 process, it's time consuming and they aren't even guaranteed citizenship if they attempt. You really need to familiarize yourself with this before you jump into the thread.

Ya, they will be paying taxes. They aren't paying their taxes now, which in its self should send them to jail. I do not feel an ounce of sympathy for them and I never will. Your only argument is that their parents brought them here, which is basically sympathy for them. My argument is that they should be deported or sent to prison because they are breaking the law by illegally setting foot in this country and taking a free ride off our education and probably other stuff. Your argument: I feel sympathy cause they didn't know what happened vs my argument: they should be sent to prison or be deported because they are illegally staying in this country and aren't paying taxes

As Americans we also have rules, just like any country. If you don't abide by those rules, their are consequences. If you kill someone, you get sent to jail or the death penalty. If you steal, you go to prison and possibily get sued. You punch a cop, you go to jail. You step foot in this country illegally, you get deported.

As you can hopefully tell, their were consequences for everything I mentioned. Everything has an account, usually, if you do something wrong, there's a consequence for it. So I do not find it sad how America has become, in this aspect. I find it sad how it has become more "politically correct".


Oh, and ya, if we allow them here. Their gangs will just come here, So that'll be a whole new problem for us.


If you don't agree with me fine, but no reason to neg rep me -_-
I thought its called a debate, no I'm gonna neg rep this guy cause he's not team illegal immigration

[ImCoolBeans]

Ya, they will be paying taxes. They aren't paying their taxes now, which in its self should send them to jail. I do not feel an ounce of sympathy for them and I never will. Your only argument is that their parents brought them here, which is basically sympathy for them. My argument is that they should be deported or sent to prison because they are breaking the law by illegally setting foot in this country and taking a free ride off our education and probably other stuff. Your argument: I feel sympathy cause they didn't know what happened vs my argument: they should be sent to prison or be deported because they are illegally staying in this country and aren't paying taxes

As Americans we also have rules, just like any country. If you don't abide by those rules, their are consequences. If you kill someone, you get sent to jail or the death penalty. If you steal, you go to prison and possibily get sued. You punch a cop, you go to jail. You step foot in this country illegally, you get deported.

As you can hopefully tell, their were consequences for everything I mentioned. Everything has an account, usually, if you do something wrong, there's a consequence for it. So I do not find it sad how America has become, in this aspect. I find it sad how it has become more "politically correct".

Yes, and my argument is completely valid where yours is not completely valid. Yes, these people are here illegally, but they did not have a choice. They did not make the decision to do this. They now are dumped here wanting to become legal, but cannot - until now.

You can't compare this to murder or punching a cop, the two are very violent actions, whereas these people innocently got dragged to a foreign country, not knowing what was being done. They were children, dude. Fucking children. They grew up here, learned our culture, played with us on playgrounds and now have come of age where they need to make this decision. If they want to work to right the wrongs that their parents forced them into, then why the fuck should they not be able to?

I have sympathy for the people who were brought here as children and now are facing this dilemma. Not their parents. Don't put words into my mouth.

Edit: I didn't even neg rep you, so you should probably stop throwing around accusations.

[Lanx]

What is disgusting is that that idiot Obama did this without Congressional approval / authorization and that is wrong and unconstitutional. I just hope that if Romney gets elected he repeals this idiotic amnesty. Don't tell me it's not amnesty either, because no matter how you look at it that bastard President of ours gave them outright amnesty. Oh well, at least Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona has said he is going to continue to arrest illegals regardless of Obama's dumbass amnesty. I see thy as a good thing.

Yes, by the way, yes, they should be deported. Regardless if they were brought here by their parents or not. Some of you are pathetic that you believe it is ok to break the law. It's even more sickenng that like the President, some of you like Shyguy, StoppingTime, and ImCoolBeams, among others contnue to thnk it is ok to break the law and encourage people to break the law. Oh and don't give me this bullshit that some laws were meant to be broken. If that's the case, then why do we still have an economic embargo against Communist Cuba, yet we still do business with other Communist Countries like China, Vietnam, and Laos? Countries which by the way, have a worse human rights record than Cuba, and countries which all do business with North Korea. Where is the sense and reasoning in that?

By the way. You ever been to Texas? Half of these illegal crminals that were brought here as kids are adults now and they still can't speak enough or any fucking English to get by. So don't give me this bullshit that they were brought here and have grown up in our culture because lots of them can't even be bothered to learn the fucking language of the land. Trust me, here in Texas, some of them are lazy as fuck.

Edit your post instead of posting twice in a row. Posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

[ImCoolBeans]

What is disgusting is that that idiot Obama did this without Congressional approval / authorization and that is wrong and unconstitutional. I just hope that if Romney gets elected he repeals this idiotic amnesty. Don't tell me it's not amnesty either, because no matter how you look at it that bastard President of ours gave them outright amnesty. Oh well, at least Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona has said he is going to continue to arrest illegals regardless of Obama's dumbass amnesty. I see thy as a good thing.

Yes, by the way, yes, they should be deported. Regardless if they were brought here by their parents or not. Some of you are pathetic that you believe it is ok to break the law. It's even more sickenng that like the President, some of you like Shyguy, StoppingTime, and ImCoolBeams, among others contnue to thnk it is ok to break the law and encourage people to break the law. Oh and don't give me this bullshit that some laws were meant to be broken. If that's the case, then why do we still have an economic embargo against Communist Cuba, yet we still do business with other Communist Countries like China, Vietnam, and Laos? Countries which by the way, have a worse human rights record than Cuba, and countries which all do business with North Korea. Where is the sense and reasoning in that?

This is a debate forum, personal attack and name calling is pretty weak, and we don't have it here. If you're going to play that game, then you can leave.

This is an attempt to stop/cut down on illegal immigration by giving these people chances to become legal, encouraging others to follow the path to legal immigration. I don't see how that is "pathetic" in any way.

[StoppingTime]

People suffer for what their parents do or have done a lot. Their parents shouldve known what might happen to their kids, so they took that risk.

Yes, they took a risk to keep their children alive. Almost half the people in Mexico are living in poverty, something you've never come close to. They have a right to save their children.


This is a great way to get around the system. But the law is the law, it doesn't matter if the kid is only 5, they are still a Illegal Immigrant that has no right to be here.

Look it that. The same argument Mike and myself said not to bring, you did. Surprising.


What's the worst that would happen, they go back to where they were born? Ya, sounds terrifying lol

Grow up man. "What's the worst that could happen, lol." You sound like a child making a joke. And yet, this isn't a joke. Yes, they are deported back to the crime filled, poverty lives they don't deserve.


How are they earning staying here? Not paying taxes?

THEY. PAY. TAXES. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Undocumented_Taxpayer s)


Stealing American jobs? Joining gangs?

I think we've just about covered the jobs thing, and how you are still wrong on that.
As for the gangs, there are much more legal citizens in gangs than illegal ones.


Although, if you sell marijuana that does make them a lot of money, so props to them for smuggling marijuana from mexico.

Completely different, off topic argument.


Their are plenty of Mexican jobs in Mexico, because in Mexico big corporations can pay them less.

Clearly, there aren't enough suitable jobs there, or people wouldn't be coming here. /logical statement


So there are plenty of jobs,

Where are your sources?


so they get a chance to work hard :)

Nope.


Better yet, the Mexican law says they can start work at 14, so they get double the experience and a lot of time to legally sign up to be an American citizen.

Wow. Just what I've always wanted to do. Start working in a factory, with many potential dangers, at 14.


[QUOTE=Tacitus;1788531]Ya, they will be paying taxes. They aren't paying their taxes now,

I think we've established this as 100% incorrect. Tell me how you are right, with sources and data.


I do not feel an ounce of sympathy for them and I never will.

I can't change who you are or what you feel, but there is a moral-shop down the street from where you live, have a look around.


Your only argument is that their parents brought them here, which is basically sympathy for them.

This is a logical argument.


My argument is that they should be deported or sent to prison because they are breaking the law by illegally setting foot in this country and taking a free ride off our education and probably other stuff.

This is not. Not only is the fact that they "get a free ride" wrong, but just because a law is being broken doesn't make them bad people, it makes the law flawed.


Your argument: I feel sympathy cause they didn't know what happened vs my argument: they should be sent to prison or be deported because they are illegally staying in this country and aren't paying taxes

My argument: Full of statistics, data, and evidence.
Yours: Because I said so. Because it breaks the law.


As Americans we also have rules, just like any country. If you don't abide by those rules, their are consequences.

I've heard you say that..... :rolleyes:


If you kill someone, you get sent to jail or the death penalty. If you steal, you go to prison and possibily get sued. You punch a cop, you go to jail. You step foot in this country illegally, you get deported.

First of all, it is in no way that simple. Secondly, please tell me you did not compare undocumented immigrants to murderers.


As you can hopefully tell, their were consequences for everything I mentioned. Everything has an account, usually, if you do something wrong, there's a consequence for it. So I do not find it sad how America has become, in this aspect. I find it sad how it has become more "politically correct".

What if the law is wrong?


What is disgusting is that that idiot Obama did this without Congressional approval / authorization and that is wrong and unconstitutional.

...Which is why it hasn't passed yet...


I just hope that if Romney gets elected he repeals this idiotic amnesty. Don't tell me it's not amnesty either, because no matter how you look at it that bastard President of ours gave them outright amnesty. Oh well, at least Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona has said he is going to continue to arrest illegals regardless of Obama's dumbass amnesty. I see thy as a good thing.

Insults only make you sound like more of a fool. You have no argument, so you go around calling people names.


Yes, by the way, yes, they should be deported. Regardless if they were brought here by their parents or not. Some of you are pathetic that you believe it is ok to break the law.

Can't the law be wrong?


It's even more sickenng that like the President, some of you like Shyguy, StoppingTime, and ImCoolBeams, among others contnue to thnk it is ok to break the law and encourage people to break the law.

Can't the law be wrong?


Oh and don't give me this bullshit that some laws were meant to be broken. If that's the case, then why do we still have an economic embargo against Communist Cuba, yet we still do business with other Communist Countries like China, Vietnam, and Laos? Countries which by the way, have a worse human rights record than Cuba, and countries which all do business with North Korea. Where is the sense and reasoning in that?

This is 100% off topic/


By the way. You ever been to Texas?

I hope I never go. Because, many of them are just like you.


Half of these illegal crminals that were brought here as kids are adults now and they still can't speak enough or any fucking English to get by.

Can I get a source here? Anyone, a source?


So don't give me this bullshit that they were brought here and have grown up in our culture because lots of them can't even be bothered to learn the fucking language of the land. Trust me, here in Texas, some of them are lazy as fuck.

As are many Americans.

[Cicero]

Yes, and my argument is completely valid where yours is not completely valid. Yes, these people are here illegally, but they did not have a choice. They did not make the decision to do this. They now are dumped here wanting to become legal, but cannot - until now.

You can't compare this to murder or punching a cop, the two are very violent actions, whereas these people innocently got dragged to a foreign country, not knowing what was being done. They were children, dude. Fucking children. They grew up here, learned our culture, played with us on playgrounds and now have come of age where they need to make this decision. If they want to work to right the wrongs that their parents forced them into, then why the fuck should they not be able to?

I have sympathy for the people who were brought here as children and now are facing this dilemma. Not their parents. Don't put words into my mouth.

Edit: I didn't even neg rep you, so you should probably stop throwing around accusations.

I didn't mean it toward you, sorry I didn't clarify. I meant it toward people who keep neg repping me cause I'm the opposite of what they are, and I believe opposite things then what they do.

So basically, that's sympathy. You say how they had to learn our language (not really cause a lot of Mexicans don't know English), and they grew up here and they played with you on the playgrounds. That sounds completely like sympathy, it's as if your saying, they had to become one of us, we can't just abandon them.

What is disgusting is that that idiot Obama did this without Congressional approval / authorization and that is wrong and unconstitutional. I just hope that if Romney gets elected he repeals this idiotic amnesty. Don't tell me it's not amnesty either, because no matter how you look at it that bastard President of ours gave them outright amnesty. Oh well, at least Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona has said he is going to continue to arrest illegals regardless of Obama's dumbass amnesty. I see thy as a good thing.

Yes, by the way, yes, they should be deported. Regardless if they were brought here by their parents or not. Some of you are pathetic that you believe it is ok to break the law. It's even more sickenng that like the President, some of you like Shyguy, StoppingTime, and ImCoolBeams, among others contnue to thnk it is ok to break the law and encourage people to break the law. Oh and don't give me this bullshit that some laws were meant to be broken. If that's the case, then why do we still have an economic embargo against Communist Cuba, yet we still do business with other Communist Countries like China, Vietnam, and Laos? Countries which by the way, have a worse human rights record than Cuba, and countries which all do business with North Korea. Where is the sense and reasoning in that?

I agree. All Obama done has spend, and I bet he's just passing the DREAM Act so he can get all the Mexican votes, their haven't been too many promises he's kept when he was running for president. Are the troops out of Iraq? Nope. hes keeping them there.

[ImCoolBeans]

So basically, that's sympathy. You say how they had to learn our language (not really cause a lot of Mexicans don't know English), and they grew up here and they played with you on the playgrounds. That sounds completely like sympathy, it's as if your saying, they had to become one of us, we can't just abandon them.


Did you just skim my post instead of reading it? Please reread it a little slower.

You'll find that I said "I have sympathy for the people who were brought here as children and now are facing this dilemma. Not their parents. Don't put words into my mouth."

[Sugaree]

By the way. You ever been to Texas? Half of these illegal crminals that were brought here as kids are adults now and they still can't speak enough or any fucking English to get by. So don't give me this bullshit that they were brought here and have grown up in our culture because lots of them can't even be bothered to learn the fucking language of the land. Trust me, here in Texas, some of them are lazy as fuck.

>he thinks America has one culture

Just stop while you're behind.


I agree. All Obama done has spend, and I bet he's just passing the DREAM Act so he can get all the Mexican votes

>Latinos
>all of them are Mexican

You have got an incredibly narrow minded view of what a Mexican is. Do you even know all the countries that exist WITHIN Mexico? Also, the DREAM Act has been around since the last two years of the Bush administration. Get a fucking grip and read before you say shit.

[Cicero]

Yes, they took a risk to keep their children alive. Almost half the people in Mexico are living in poverty, something you've never come close to. They have a right to save their children.



Look it that. The same argument Mike and myself said not to bring, you did. Surprising.



Grow up man. "What's the worst that could happen, lol." You sound like a child making a joke. And yet, this isn't a joke. Yes, they are deported back to the crime filled, poverty lives they don't deserve.



THEY. PAY. TAXES. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Undocumented_Taxpayer s)



I think we've just about covered the jobs thing, and how you are still wrong on that.
As for the gangs, there are much more legal citizens in gangs than illegal ones.



Completely different, off topic argument.



Clearly, there aren't enough suitable jobs there, or people wouldn't be coming here. /logical statement



Where are your sources?



Nope.



Wow. Just what I've always wanted to do. Start working in a factory, with many potential dangers, at 14.

[quote]


I think we've established this as 100% incorrect. Tell me how you are right, with sources and data.



I can't change who you are or what you feel, but there is a moral-shop down the street from where you live, have a look around.



This is a logical argument.



This is not. Not only is the fact that they "get a free ride" wrong, but just because a law is being broken doesn't make them bad people, it makes the law flawed.



My argument: Full of statistics, data, and evidence.
Yours: Because I said so. Because it breaks the law.



I've heard you say that..... :rolleyes:



First of all, it is in no way that simple. Secondly, please tell me you did not compare undocumented immigrants to murderers.



What if the law is wrong?




...Which is why it hasn't passed yet...



Insults only make you sound like more of a fool. You have no argument, so you go around calling people names.



Can't the law be wrong?



Can't the law be wrong?



This is 100% off topic/



I hope I never go. Because, many of them are just like you.



Can I get a source here? Anyone, a source?



As are many Americans.

Since when we're you the boss of how I defend myself? Oh that's right never, so I can say whatever is true, that it's illegal to come here without authorization by the government.

Who says they don't deserve to go back to Mexico? You? How about we just invite all of Mexico! There we go! Unlimited tequila and marijuana and burritos! Woohoo! Who cares about the law, even though laws are given for specific and good reasons.

Having this DREAM act pass will be horrible, all it is, is a magnet for illegal immigration. It offers an incentive to brake the law.

It's funny how you always refer to my families finances. First about the Gucci belt and now about "poverty... Something you've never been close to". You don't know my families finances do you? It seems like your an expert aren't ya? What businesses has my dad owned, what stocks does he own? Come on, you should know considering your making these accusations. FYI my mom grew up in a family that had it tuff, her dad died when she was young. Her mom worked her ass off, working 10-12 hours a day raising 4 kids. My mom grew up, and is now working a menial job. Her plan was to become a nurse but that got screwed up, so I know what it's like to live tuff, so shut the fuck up. Oh ya, my dad also went through times where the power and water got turned off. A few years after the limousine company he was barely scraping by. On top of that, I had to have surgery in which was $8,000, my step mom offered to sell a lot of her most treasured things, but ended up not doing it. Then, things slowly go better and better. My dad grew up in a middle class family, then became rich, then lost a lot, then starting to get wealthy again. Slowly. So how about stopping with these personal insults. Im assuming your middle class or poor, so what if I said "your poor worthless trash, as I can tell". I wouldnt know your families finances (I'm assuming your middle class or below, cause of all the insults being thrown at me by you). So stop assuming shit, ok, thanks :)

[Neverender]

Not reading the rest of the thread, who do the Anti-Immigrant people in the United States think they are? The US always goes on with it's sickening propaganda of how it's the "Best in the World", but then they go and get rid of people who try to go to that Great land.

It's even funnier becuase the Entire white Population of the United States are descendants of immigrants.

[Cicero]

Not reading the rest of the thread, who do the Anti-Immigrant people in the United States think they are? The US always goes on with it's sickening propaganda of how it's the "Best in the World", but then they go and get rid of people who try to go to that Great land.

It's even funnier becuase the Entire white Population of the United States are descendants of immigrants.

Illegal immigrants? Not entirely

Great, Mexico has even more countries in it. Good for them, countries that are drug cartel infested, poverty stricken, and gross. It's so important to know there are more countries within Mexico, that's gonna help me a lot.

Oh, and if it's so dangerous there, why is the worlds richest man still living there? Interesting, the worlds richest men, living in "a really dangerous country". Odd, if I had money and was the most important man in the country. I'd wanna live in the safest country. But because those "hombres" bring there gangs here, many towns are becoming dangerous with gangs from Mexico that were either immigrants or are still illegal.

[Lanx]

They are ILLEGAL CRIMINALS, and their presence in this Country is an insult and a slap in the face to every immigrant who has come here the LEGAL way and to every US CITIZEN, whether a citizen by birth or by naturalization, and they need to be deported and never allowed back in to this country. Therefore, for some of you to continue to think it is ok to break the law, then that just shows how narrow minded and ignorant of the law you all are. Oh, and before anyone starts bitching at me for name calling, remember, some of you have also called me narrow minded in this thread as well. You don't like it? Then don't say it about me.

[Nellerin]

They are ILLEGAL CRIMINALS, and their presence in this Country is an insult and a slap in the face to every immigrant who has come here the LEGAL way and to every US CITIZEN, whether a citizen by birth or by naturalization, and they need to be deported and never allowed back in to this country. Therefore, for some of you to continue to think it is ok to break the law, then that just shows how narrow minded and ignorant of the law you all are. Oh amd before anyone starts bitching at me for name calling, remember, some of you have also called me narrow minded in this thread as well. You don't like it? Then don't say it about me.

The problem is, we do not have good regulations governing the speed in which they can legally become part of our country. Simply living in the USA means we are unable to judge what they do in order to get what we have because they face much larger fears each night than we do here. Considering their government/police are corrupt and of know help when people are getting killed and tortured.

I am not saying that they are doing a "good" thing but I'm of Gandhi's mindset that civil disobedience is allowed because you are going up against unjust laws.

[StoppingTime]

[quote]Since when we're you the boss of how I defend myself? Oh that's right never, so I can say whatever is true, that it's illegal to come here without authorization by the government.

You can say whatever you want. But without sources or data, it's just your stubborn xenophobic opinion.


Who says they don't deserve to go back to Mexico? You? How about we just invite all of Mexico!

Do you think people deserve to live in that kind of poverty?
And you making stupid sarcastic comments will get you nowhere. At least mine further a debate.


There we go! Unlimited tequila and marijuana and burritos! Woohoo!

:yawn:


Who cares about the law, even though laws are given for specific and good reasons.

Is it? Can you prove that to me? With sources?


Having this DREAM act pass will be horrible, all it is, is a magnet for illegal immigration. It offers an incentive to brake the law.

Actually, in short, it's a way for those undocumented students already living here to become citizens.


Long ass story...
But, have you been close to poverty like in Mexico? I don't really care, don't answer it to me. Answer to yourself.

[quote]
Im assuming your middle class or poor, so what if I said "your poor worthless trash, as I can tell". I wouldnt know your families finances (I'm assuming your middle class or below, cause of all the insults being thrown at me by you).

Actually, my family has always done just fine.
And lol, right after you told me not to ask/assume personal questions, I apologized. While you just did the exact same thing you told me not to do.
---

Not reading the rest of the thread, who do the Anti-Immigrant people in the United States think they are? The US always goes on with it's sickening propaganda of how it's the "Best in the World", but then they go and get rid of people who try to go to that Great land.

Thank you.




Great, Mexico has even more countries in it. Good for them, countries that are drug cartel infested, poverty stricken, and gross. It's so important to know there are more countries within Mexico, that's gonna help me a lot.

What?


Oh, and if it's so dangerous there, why is the worlds richest man still living there? Interesting, the worlds richest men, living in "a really dangerous country".

Once again, this has nothing to do with the debate. There are plenty of rich oil barrens out in the Middle East, does that automatically make the countries safe?

[Neverender]

Who cares about the law, even though laws are given for specific and good reasons.

Anti-Gay and Marijuana Criminalization Laws. "Good reasons" my motherfucking ass.

[Cicero]

Anti-Gay and Marijuana Criminalization Laws. "Good reasons" my motherfucking ass.

There is no law about anti gay. You see gays on tv, if it were against the law. They wouldn't be allowed to be gay.
Also, Texas is known to be a Christian state. Back in the day, they didn't know that they were doing anything wrong for being racist, cause that's how they were raise FYI

All I know is that this can be an ongoing debate, especially when 99% of people on here are liberal anti Conservative people. So I'm going to try to leave with the finishing note of...
Illegal immigration is horrible and their should be a worst punishment than deportation. They should be sent to prison. It's the child's responsibility to go back to Mexico (when they are old enough to realize they're breaking the law). And we need someone who has business experience to help get this country out of debt, we need someone with common sense. So overall, Romney will be the best choice. I don't care what the age is, I do not show sympathy for people who break the law, being an Illegal Immigrant (http://www.mittromney.com/issues/immigration) is breaking the law. I could care less how "bad" and "terrifying" Mexico is, and I probably never will, especially considering that the worlds richest man lives in a "bad" and "terrifying" place.

[Neverender]

There is no law about anti gay.

Anti-Gay as in South Carolina banning any possibility of Gay Marriage by constitutional changes, for an example.

Anti-Gay marriage I guess (Although anti-gay marriage is inherently anti-gay within itself)7


EDIT: I didn't write Marriage in the first post because I thought people around here were intelligent enough to make that connection. Evidently I'm wrong. So I will spell out things very gently from now on.

[StoppingTime]

There is no law about anti gay. You see gays on tv, if it were against the law. They wouldn't be allowed to be gay.

Right. Except they can't marry. Other than that, it's all good. You know what he meant.



Also, Texas is known to be a Christian state. Back in the day, they didn't know that they were doing anything wrong for being racist, cause that's how they were raise FYI

There's a great excuse. Religion.
And "FYI" the entire country used to be (some still are, in case you don't know) anti-black, anti-Native, etc... So, there's another reason. Texas wasn't cut off from everyone.

[Neverender]

There's a great excuse. Religion.
And "FYI" the entire country used to be (some still are, in case you don't know) anti-black, anti-Native, etc... So, there's another reason. Texas wasn't cut off from everyone.

Yes. Direct from my Youtube Channel is this, and I think it fits very well with the Anti-Immigration people. It sounds just like them actually.

20WSqqJRlXc

[Lanx]

Not reading the rest of the thread, who do the Anti-Immigrant people in the United States think they are?

Who do you Canadians think you are with you're so-called "Canadian society"? Canada is not as perfect as you would like to make it out to be. Especially, considering near enough every problem Canada has, you're Country tends to blame your neighbors to the South. Convenient, eh?


The US always goes on with it's sickening propaganda of how it's the "Best in the World", but then they go and get rid of people who try to go to that Great land.

I think you are mistaken for your own so-called excuse for a Country. Maybe when you're country is totally free from the control of the Queen, you might have a legitimate argument there.


It's even funnier becuase the Entire white Population of the United States are descendants of immigrants.

Once again, you need to look at you're own Country, considering that the Entire White Population of Canada are also descendants of immigrants. HOW ABOOT THAT, EH?

Am I surprised that you're from Texas? Go roll up in an American flag and burn a cross.

Am I surprised that you're from Canada? Go roll up that Marijuana-leaf, er-herm, I mean "Maple Leaf" flag and turn it into a blunt and smoke it. That is after all what you Canucks do best, eh.


I mean the way he's talking about how awful Illegal Immigrants are because they're Illegal. Burning Crosses happens in Georgia and Alabama, but I'm casting the Southern White trash banner over Texas too, just for him.

I highly doubt you've ever been to the South, or Texas for that matter. As a matter of fact I highly doubt you've ever even left that barren wasteland that is Canada. I think you've been drinking too much Labatt Blue and Maple Syrup. Or maybe you got hit in the head one too many times with a hockey puck over the years.


So, before you dare criticize and meddle in the internal affairs of my country, maybe you should worry about you're own country's problems, such as why the Canadian Government repeatedly blames the US Government as to why Canada's gun violence rates are so high, when the leadership in Ottawa has no evidence whatsoever to back those claims up. Or maybe you should worry about why Canada's healthcare system is so tanked and screwed up that people have to go on wait lists for simple surgeries or for procedures that could potentially save their lives, and why some Canadians come to the US instead for treatment because their own government would rather let them die before they get treatment. Or better yet, why has the Harper Government eliminated all women's health, women's programs, legal counseling to women facing a divorce, rape counseling, etc. Or why is it legal to smoke crack in Canada, but not legal in some places to light up a cigarette? Hell, even China has better social programs, senior and disability pensions, health care and education than Canada has.

Or how about explaining why Canada has some of the world's strictest and most complicated immigration laws in the world? Some even stricter than those of the United States.

So before you go criticizing how bad my Country is or how bad us "Evil and Backwards" Americans are, maybe you should take a look at your own precious Country and figure out how to fix Canada's problems for you start bitching about how bad Americans are and how bad our Country is.

How ABOOT that, EH?

[Lanx]

Anti-Gay as in South Carolina banning any possibility of Gay Marriage by constitutional changes, for an example.

It was NORTH CAROLINA, not South Carolina

[Neverender]

Who do you Canadians think you are with you're so-called "Canadian society"?


We welcome immigrants and we often grant them Refugee status. Canadian society is a mishmash of hundreds of separate cultures.

I think you are mistaken for your own so-called excuse for a Country. Maybe when you're country is totally free from the control of the Queen, you might have a legitimate argument there.


This is irrelevant

Once again, you need to look at you're own Country, considering that the Entire White Population of Canada are also descendants of immigrants. HOW ABOOT THAT, EH?

We welcome immigrants, like I said. Not like you saying "Get off my Lawn."

Am I surprised that you're from Canada? Go roll up that Marijuana-leaf, er-herm, I mean "Maple Leaf" flag and turn it into a blunt and smoke it. That is after all what you Canucks do best, eh.

I love weed


I highly doubt you've ever been to the South, or Texas for that matter. As a matter of fact I highly doubt you've ever even left that barren wasteland that is Canada. I think you've been drinking too much Labatt Blue and Maple Syrup. Or maybe you got hit in the head one too many times with a hockey puck over the years.

I'm from the east. All I do is drink, fish and smoke. You sound even more hateful than I thought possible.

So, before you dare criticize and meddle in the internal affairs of my country, maybe you should worry about you're own country's problems, such as why the Canadian Government repeatedly blames the US Government as to why Canada's gun violence rates are so high, when the leadership in Ottawa has no evidence whatsoever to back those claims up. Or maybe you should worry about why Canada's healthcare system is so tanked and screwed up that people have to go on wait lists for simple surgeries or for procedures that could potentially save their lives, and why some Canadians come to the US instead for treatment because their own government would rather let them die before they get treatment. Or better yet, why has the Harper Government eliminated all women's health, women's programs, legal counseling to women facing a divorce, rape counseling, etc. Or why is it legal to smoke crack in Canada, but not legal in some places to light up a cigarette? Hell, even China has better social programs, senior and disability pensions, health care and education than Canada has.

Or how about explaining why Canada has some of the world's strictest and most complicated immigration laws in the world? Some even stricter than those of the United States.

So before you go criticizing how bad my Country is or how bad us "Evil and Backwards" Americans are, maybe you should take a look at your own precious Country and figure out how to fix Canada's problems for you start bitching about how bad Americans are and how bad our Country is.

How ABOOT that, EH?



Not reading because Boldprint is for faggots.

So again, I refer you to this
20WSqqJRlXc

[Neverender]

It was NORTH CAROLINA, not South Carolina

Alright so go ahead and ignore my point.

[StoppingTime]

Who do you Canadians think you are with you're so-called "Canadian society"? Canada is not as perfect as you would like to make it out to be. Especially, considering near enough every problem Canada has, you're Country tends to blame your neighbors to the South. Convenient, eh?


Wow man. Really? You can't argue about a topic, so you spend time sounding like a rambling fool. I guess that fits you.
And Canada doesn't blame all their problems on us. Really.
No country is perfect. But the US makes itself out to be, and it isn't.


I think you are mistaken for your own so-called excuse for a Country. Maybe when you're country is totally free from the control of the Queen, you might have a legitimate argument there.

You sound like such a child. I am taking this entire post as a joke.



Once again, you need to look at you're own Country, considering that the Entire White Population of Canada are also descendants of immigrants. HOW ABOOT THAT, EH?

Now, you're post is leading me to believe you are an idiot. (Notice, I didn't say you were. But from how you are writing, it seems like. Easy to hide behind a screen, huh?)

Nobody said that Canada was different.


Am I surprised that you're from Canada? Go roll up that Marijuana-leaf, er-herm, I mean "Maple Leaf" flag and turn it into a blunt and smoke it. That is after all what you Canucks do best, eh.p/quote]

Watch the video he posted. You are just like that guy. Have you ever met a Canadian?


[B]I highly doubt you've ever been to the South, or Texas for that matter.

Who would want to?


As a matter of fact I highly doubt you've ever even left that barren wasteland that is Canada. I think you've been drinking too much Labatt Blue and Maple Syrup. Or maybe you got hit in the head one too many times with a hockey puck over the years.

Just wow.


[B]So, before you dare criticize and meddle in the internal affairs of my country,

Your country?


maybe you should worry about you're own country's problems, such as why the Canadian Government repeatedly blames the US Government as to why Canada's gun violence rates are so high, when the leadership in Ottawa has no evidence whatsoever to back those claims up. Or maybe you should worry about why Canada's healthcare system is so tanked and screwed up that people have to go on wait lists for simple surgeries or for procedures that could potentially save their lives, and why some Canadians come to the US instead for treatment because their own government would rather let them die before they get treatment. Or better yet, why has the Harper Government eliminated all women's health, women's programs, legal counseling to women facing a divorce, rape counseling, etc. Or why is it legal to smoke crack in Canada, but not legal in some places to light up a cigarette? Hell, even China has better social programs, senior and disability pensions, health care and education than Canada has.

Or how about explaining why Canada has some of the world's strictest and most complicated immigration laws in the world? Some even stricter than those of the United States.

So before you go criticizing how bad my Country is or how bad us "Evil and Backwards" Americans are, maybe you should take a look at your own precious Country and figure out how to fix Canada's problems for you start bitching about how bad Americans are and how bad our Country is.



American's, like you at least, are evil.

[Lanx]

We welcome immigrants and we often grant them Refugee status. Canadian society is a mishmash of hundreds of separate cultures.

As does the United States, as long as they come in LEGALLY. Also, US society is a mishmash of hundreds of separate cultures.


This is irrelevant

Why? Because you don't like a few home truths?





We welcome immigrants, like I said. Not like you saying "Get off my Lawn."

So do we, as long as they are here legally. Oh, and I've never once said that.

I love weed

I'll bet you do.


I'm from the east. All I do is drink, fish and smoke.

This is irrelevant.



Not reading because Boldprint is for faggots.

Funny, considering everything else you replied to that I wrote was in bold thread.

That's ok though, here it is again in non-bold print, just for you :D

So, before you dare criticize and meddle in the internal affairs of my country, maybe you should worry about you're own country's problems, such as why the Canadian Government repeatedly blames the US Government as to why Canada's gun violence rates are so high, when the leadership in Ottawa has no evidence whatsoever to back those claims up. Or maybe you should worry about why Canada's healthcare system is so tanked and screwed up that people have to go on wait lists for simple surgeries or for procedures that could potentially save their lives, and why some Canadians come to the US instead for treatment because their own government would rather let them die before they get treatment. Or better yet, why has the Harper Government eliminated all women's health, women's programs, legal counseling to women facing a divorce, rape counseling, etc. Or why is it legal to smoke crack in Canada, but not legal in some places to light up a cigarette? Hell, even China has better social programs, senior and disability pensions, health care and education than Canada has.

Or how about explaining why Canada has some of the world's strictest and most complicated immigration laws in the world? Some even stricter than those of the United States.

So before you go criticizing how bad my Country is or how bad us "Evil and Backwards" Americans are, maybe you should take a look at your own precious Country and figure out how to fix Canada's problems for you start bitching about how bad Americans are and how bad our Country is.

How ABOOT that, EH?

Oh and you might wanna look in the mirror before you call someone a faggot, just saying :)

[Electra Heart]

Ok, you all need to take a big step back here, and quit it with all the name calling, and heated replies. Please stick to the original purpose of the thread or I'm locking.

[shyguy21]

Back in the day, they didn't know that they were doing anything wrong for being racist, cause that's how they were raise FYI So you think its okay that AMERICANS back then were racist (and often violent) because thats how they were raised, but illegal MEXICANS who was raised to believe they were American, living in an American society(as good moraled people), brought to America as minors by their parents is no good to you? Get over your xenophobia.

It's the child's responsibility to go back to Mexico (when they are old enough to realize they're breaking the law). So if I'm ten and I understand that I'm illegal, I should leave my family and walk across the border back to crime infested Mexico? I could care less how "bad" and "terrifying" Mexico is, and I probably never will, Stop trying to make Mexico sound like its heaven. WHY do you think people are so desperate to leave? The fact is it is a dangerous place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico), and you need to wake up and see that. especially considering that the worlds richest man lives in a "bad" and "terrifying" place. Some of the worlds richest celebrities live in Los Angeles, but South Los Angeles is still a dangerous, gang infested place. Some towns are nice, some aren't. Plus the richest man in the world's businesses are all in Mexico. Why wouldn't he live there?

[Lanx]

Wow man. Really?

Really...

And Canada doesn't blame all their problems on us. Really.

Actually, yes Canada does blame the US for a lot of it's problems. When Paul Martin was Prime Minister, for example, he outright said that Canadian gun violence was due to illegal guns being brought across the border from the US.

No country is perfect.

Nahh, you don't say.

But the US makes itself out to be, and it isn't.

Maybe so, but so do other countries.


Actually, yes, really, Canada does blame the US for a lot of it's problems. When Paul Martin was Prime Minister, for example, he outright said that Canadian gun violence was due to illegal guns being brought across the border from the US. Really.



You sound like such a child. I am taking this entire post as a joke.

Well, when your 14-year old balls drop, then you can come back and talk to me about sounding like such a child.



Now, you're post is leading me to believe you are an idiot. (Notice, I didn't say you were. But from how you are writing, it seems like. Easy to hide behind a screen, huh?)

Again, like I asked in another post, do you honestly think I give a fuck about what you or anyone thinks about me?

Nobody said that Canada was different.

Umm, ok...

Watch the video he posted. You are just like that guy. Have you ever met a Canadian?

I did watch it, I don't care who you think I am like, and yes I have met several Canadians. There are a lot of Snowbirds that live in Texas after all.



Who would want to?

Apparently, a lot of people. Especially since Texas has some of the best Universities in the world, and one of the best economies in the United States, and one of the best job markets right now.



Just wow.

I'm glad I amaze you that much :)



Your country?

Yes, MY COUNTRY, and yours as well.



American's, like you at least, are evil.

Once again, look in the mirror.... I'm not the one who thinks that it is ok to break the law and reward those who do break the law.

Gay insults don't work when the person you're insulting sucks dicks for fun.

Funny when your so high on weed, that you don't know that you're talking about yourself. Again, worry about your own fucked up country's problems, not ours.

posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

[ImCoolBeans]

If you guys can't handle yourselves and cut out the insults I'm going straight to infraction here. I don't want to see personal attacks, profound insults or anything of that nature anymore. Cut it out or this thread will be locked and infractions will be given out.

[Neverender]

Once again, look in the mirror.... I'm not the one who thinks that it is ok to break the law and reward those who do break the law.

He's breaking laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. Like I do when I buy beer. Or like the Syrians do when they try to overthrow their leaders.

Funny when your so high on weed, that you don't know that you're talking about yourself. Again, worry about your own fucked up country's problems, not ours.

I'M NOT MAKING SENSE? Alright, I'm gay. Can I be more obvious to you than that?

[Lanx]

He's breaking laws that shouldn't be there in the first place. Like I do when I buy beer. Or like the Syrians do when they try to overthrow their leaders.



I'M NOT MAKING SENSE? Alright, I'm gay. Can I be more obvious to you than that?

This country's immigration laws are fucked up, yes. But there is still no excuse for living here illegally. They need to get in line like everyone else and come here legally. Maybe your fucked up country will take all of them instead.

[Neverender]

This country's immigration laws are fucked up, yes. But there is still no excuse for living here illegally. They need to get in line like everyone else and come here legally. Maybe your fucked up country will take all of them instead.

ALRIGHT, I'm ignoring everything you say because you're blatantly trying to piss the world off. Skipping ahead, Past the borders what do they do inside your country? Take jobs normal Americans don't want anyways. "ooooohh noooooo an illegal immigrant is my gardener!"

[Lanx]

ALRIGHT, I'm ignoring everything you say because you're blatantly trying to piss the world off. Skipping ahead, Past the borders what do they do inside your country? Take jobs normal Americans don't want anyways. "ooooohh noooooo an illegal immigrant is my gardener!"

Good, ignore what I say. I lose no sleep whatsoever over that.

But how would you feel if all these illegals were coming into your precious country and taking all your country's jobs? Or would you just accept that you lost your job to an illegal? Plus, I'm sure you'd be happy being a gardener, judging by your so-called personality.

[Neverender]

Good, ignore what I say. I lose no sleep whatsoever over that.

But how would you feel if all these illegals were coming into your precious country and taking all your country's jobs? Or would you just accept that you lost your job to an illegal. Plus, I'm sure you'd be happy being a gardener, judging by your so-called personality.

In Canada, we enjoy chronic labour shortages. Meaning that if you went to School and you're qualified for a job, you're automatically hired upon application. The immigrant workers they bring in are to fill up the empty gaps n employment, and those people are very nice when you speak to them.

I can't help if uneducated people in the United States lose jobs to foreign uneducated people because they're willing to take less pay.