Tuition fees

[Φρανκομβριτ]

Once upon a time, not too long ago, in Great Britain you would have your post-secondary schooling paid for. This is no longer the case.

Tuition fees have been rising for a while now, and here in Québec, we seem to be the only ones fighting against it.

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Riots have filled the streets of Montréal and the situation has deteriorated in the past weeks. The Parti Québécois is calling for the minister of education to address the issues of the students, while the Liberal party (of which the minister of education is a member) is refusing to deal with the issues citing the violence from the students is inacceptable, and stating that fees must be raised in the current economic situation.

So do you believe fees should be lowered? Are students and education an asset to our society? Should our tax dollars help pave the future for the next generation?

Or should fees be raised? Is education something that needs to paid for out of pocket?

Decide!

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[Green Arrow]

No they shouldn't be raised, because then it's not practically just giving higher education to the rich. Which is wrong, why should they're wealth affect their education?

[Φρανκομβριτ]

No they shouldn't be raised, because then it's not practically just giving higher education to the rich. Which is wrong, why should they're wealth affect their education?

I agree. It also turns our post secondary education institutes in to more of a business than a place of learning. I experienced this problem at Algonquin College in Ontario. The institute ignores programmes and their requirements in favour of accepting more students than they are able to properly educate. What's worse, half the teachers there are not actual "teachers". They are veterans in their field of work, and have been hired by the college to teach.

[Jean Poutine]

They should be raised, but not before the government cleans up its act regarding its own spending, then cleans up its act regarding universities' spending, including the overly generous salaries and bonuses given to rectors.

After doing all that, if need be, then raise them. Quebec is already a society living well above its means but before asking citizens to scrape their pockets for yet more change to send the government, it should clean up its act. The Liberals have been involved in far too many scandals and corruption for it not to be widespread in government.

They should be ousted from power and elections should immediately take place. Too bad we can't do this because the Westminster system is retarded. Also too bad fucking Anglos, immigrants and Montrealers will probably keep this derelict party of thieves into power. Sounds racist but check the polls.

[Neptune]

How much is it going up? Just wondering.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

Raising tuition fees only hurts families that are already struggling to get by. Why do only the richest get education? If anything, they should be lowered to allow lower classmen get educated as well.

[DerBear]

Hey, England had riots over rising tuition fees.

In Scotland we don't have to pay for tuition fees. Something the SG did correctly.

Anyway I don't have a stance on this because it varies by country and by educational standards.

[Efflorescence]

I haven't posted on here in a while.

I definitely think that tuition fees shouldn't be raised where possible. There are students who have jobs and have taken loans, but they are still falling short of paying the full amount required. It's a pity to see good students who have been working their asses off, drop out just because they cannot afford the money for their tuition.

There are parents who cannot afford to pay a dime for their kids' education or simply don't want to, and these skyrocketing tuition fees make it all so harder for the students.

In here, post-secondary education is free and I'm so grateful for it.

[Donkey]

Student loans are paid off with very little interest and they are a very good investment; it is a near-certainty you will be earning more with a relevant degree. I think tuition fees rising is only fair, if we wish to retain a welfare state we can't expect the government to find money out of nowhere.

These riots consist of people who are thinking only about issues that affect them personally. They don't regard the amount of money that the government has to put on issues that improve their quality of life less directly such as police, ambulance, fire service, prison service, military. And then the things that affect people directly that they just seem to forget about - education, council services such as bin collections and roadworks.

All of these things have to be paid for and people need to think about themselves a little less. I'm not really being a socialist here, I'm just saying that money doesn't come out of nowhere. I'd much rather the government spent money on keeping elderly people warm and safe in the winter than prioritising money on things like student loans that are very fairly paid off later in peoples lifetimes. It's something that's going to affect me; I'll be paying £18,000 more than I would be before these changes but I've accepted that cause I'd like to think I have a generally empathetic outlook.

[Korashk]

It's not that simple. Tuition prices don't just get raised for shits and giggles, there are economical reasons. Regardless of what you think education should be, colleges are businesses that require money to function. Even if you aren't paying for it, someone is.

[Efflorescence]

It's not that simple. Tuition prices don't just get raised for shits and giggles, there are economical reasons. Regardless of what you think education should be, colleges are businesses that require money to function. Even if you aren't paying for it, someone is.

I'm not saying that it is simple, but how do you expect students to afford paying for a college that costs about 12 000$ or more a year? Colleges need money but there are some countries where very good colleges have much lower and affordable tuition fees. Don't these colleges require money as well?

I know some friends in America who are college students and who are making their best to make both ends meet, but they are going to end up having enormous amounts of debts later on. It's alright if a student has parents who are able to dole out money but truth is, many students don't and thus, have to pay for it themselves.

Student loans are paid off with very little interest and they are a very good investment; it is a near-certainty you will be earning more with a relevant degree.

Are you sure about that? I seriously doubt it. Maybe in the UK, but not in other countries where tuition fees may be even higher. Tuition fees are so high in some areas that they are actually discouraging students from getting a higher education. This could have a negative effect on the whole country in the future.

I think tuition fees rising is only fair, if we wish to retain a welfare state we can't expect the government to find money out of nowhere.

So the government should get the money by making tuition fees so high that only the well-off can afford them? The students should be the ones to suffer, especially those of poor families, in all of this? A further rise in tuition fees could easily be seen as an indirect way of discriminating against the poorer people of the country. Does discriminating against students who come from poorer families people help maintain a welfare state?

These riots consist of people who are thinking only about issues that affect them personally. They don't regard the amount of money that the government has to put on issues that improve their quality of life less directly such as police, ambulance, fire service, prison service, military. And then the things that affect people directly that they just seem to forget about - education, council services such as bin collections and roadworks.

All of these things have to be paid for and people need to think about themselves a little less. I'm not really being a socialist here, I'm just saying that money doesn't come out of nowhere. I'd much rather the government spent money on keeping elderly people warm and safe in the winter than prioritising money on things like student loans that are very fairly paid off later in peoples lifetimes. It's something that's going to affect me; I'll be paying £18,000 more than I would be before these changes but I've accepted that cause I'd like to think I have a generally empathetic outlook.

You said that the rioters are not regarding the amount of money spent on education when in reality, they are doing exactly that. I also doubt the notion that the government is suddenly in need of all this extra money to keep elderly people warm in winter, and if the only way of doing it is by making fees obscenely expensive. In my opinion this is the opposite of socialism. It is capitalism at its best.

It was only 3 years ago that tuition fees were increased by thousands. In fact, before 1997 higher education was free. And now, to want to increase tuition fees by more thousands of pounds is absurd, not to mention unfair. Students have had their fair share of increases in the last few years, now I think it's someone else' s turn.

[Korashk]

I'm not saying that it is simple, but how do you expect students to afford paying for a college that costs about 12 000$ or more a year?
Loans, or perhaps going to a cheap community college instead of a fucking expensive one.

Colleges need money but there are some countries where very good colleges have much lower and affordable tuition fees. Don't these colleges require money as well?
It all has to do with the economic state of that country. You can't apply standards universally.

[sammy1996]

For me and atleast most of my friends its just kind of accepted that if we going to university (which we all plan too) we're going to come out with a huge debt of about £30,000-£50,000

The huge increases in university costs are far too drastic, trebling the maximum yearly cost in the UK, with little to no change in equipment or facilities. if we're going to have to pay thrice as much i'd like to think i was getting a bit better service than people were getting a few years ago for a third of the price.

Before anyone mentions economy or inflation to my post, i know they exist but they quite simply arn't that bad to justify such large increases, a bit would be fine but its way too much to be justifiable

[Korashk]

its just kind of accepted that if we going to university (which we all plan too) we're going to come out with a huge debt of about £30,000-£50,000
Do cheap colleges not exist in countries besides America? My town has one of the best community colleges in the nation and a four year degree there would run you about $8000.

What are you going to school for that costs 50 grand?

[Maverick]

College tuition prices are way too inflated. Colleges are raising prices simply because they can because no matter what they charge students will figure out a way to pay it with loans, parents, grants, etc. Student loans in large amounts can be dangerous to your financial future and they can not be discharged under bankruptcy. So basically that means once you sign the dotted line that debt is yours for life until you pay it off.

Student loans have caused a bubble in higher education and it's just a matter of time before it finally bursts. Once it bursts there will be a steep correction in tuition prices and they will begin to fall. It's hard to say when that exactly will happen but it's evident at this rate that the current price hikes are unsustainable. Colleges cannot keep raising tuition more than quadruple the rate of inflation.

Anyone planning to go to college now or the near future need to be really careful about choosing a school you can actually afford. Before seeking out the 40k a year private university look at community colleges or state schools. Just because you get accepted ino a school doesn't mean you should go there if it means taking out a bunch of debt.

This is 2012 with all kinds of modern technology. Education should be getting cheaper. It will one day once the government stops backing student loans and force colleges to lower prices. I believe that higher education should be paid out of pocket... People seem to think that they need the government to make it affordable when in actuality it does the exact opposite. Take away the government backed student loans and colleges will charge prices students can afford or they will go out of business.

[Donkey]

Are you sure about that? I seriously doubt it. Maybe in the UK, but not in other countries where tuition fees may be even higher. Tuition fees are so high in some areas that they are actually discouraging students from getting a higher education. This could have a negative effect on the whole country in the future.
I know that in the UK, there are two types of loans. There are tuition fees and maintenance loans. Tuition fees cover all of your maintenance loans, and maintenance loans are covered to award general costs and the amount you can receive is based on your family income.

The interest rates are very low, about 1.5% which just about cover for inflation mainly. Student loans are only taken out at 9% of gross income OVER £15,000 each tax year. And if it is never repaid off, it is canceled 25 years after graduation. So it's a very very safe loan and very fair in terms of the way it's paid off. Most people wouldn't notice it more than a bit of money that comes out of the monthly tax bill such as National Insurance and income tax.

I am just talking about the UK, yep, cause that's the only place I really have any perspective on it.


So the government should get the money by making tuition fees so high that only the well-off can afford them? The students should be the ones to suffer, especially those of poor families, in all of this? A further rise in tuition fees could easily be seen as an indirect way of discriminating against the poorer people of the country. Does discriminating against students who come from poorer families people help maintain a welfare state?
I support tuition fees in the way they are being done by the UK government, which is how I understand them. This way, they do not particularly discriminate against poor families. Obviously if the loan terms are unfair and inaccessible then there is a problem but I am unsure whether this is just a myth that has gained a lot of stigma for striking those ethical chords in people. Maybe in the United States it is more applicable, but not here. People still complain though.


You said that the rioters are not regarding the amount of money spent on education when in reality, they are doing exactly that. I also doubt the notion that the government is suddenly in need of all this extra money to keep elderly people warm in winter, and if the only way of doing it is by making fees obscenely expensive. In my opinion this is the opposite of socialism. It is capitalism at its best.
I was referring to the vast costs the government spends on compulsory education up to 16 here and then the money they spend on state voluntary education up to age 18. And why do the government need money? The UK has a financial deficit of well over a trillion pounds. Are you suggesting we pass it onto the next generation and then make those people even poorer and worse off than the student loan system indicates?

It was only 3 years ago that tuition fees were increased by thousands. In fact, before 1997 higher education was free. And now, to want to increase tuition fees by more thousands of pounds is absurd, not to mention unfair. Students have had their fair share of increases in the last few years, now I think it's someone else' s turn.
Completely dud point as what you have suggested is an action that is taking place all over the country. The police service are experiencing monumental cuts over the next few years, there have been thousands of redundancies in the military due to cuts and the ambulance service is also cutting back significantly. It's not just tuition fees, but as they are what affects you it's all you choose to see.

[Peace God]

ITT:

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lybl80yI2A1r55d2io1_500.jpg

[Magus]

Do cheap colleges not exist in countries besides America? My town has one of the best community colleges in the nation and a four year degree there would run you about $8000.

What are you going to school for that costs 50 grand?

8000 $ for a year? Seriously? That's cheap.

But what kind of courses do they offer? Humanaties/Liberal Arts? Eitherway, you will still be able to get a job with a decent salary.

[Zephyr]

Tuition has nearly doubled since I started college back in 2008, which is why I dropped out last year and pursued a cheap back-door way to get into my profession of choice (nursing). It's insane. We were told that what the students pay doesn't even cover the third of the cost to run the university, yet they never gave a breakdown of the costs. Also, they 'had a computer glitch' last year which dropped around 15% of everyone from classes, and nobody could re-enroll, and they gave nobody tuition refunds because they couldn't prove that people were dropped'. It's getting out of hand. Of course they need to lower it... student loan debt just hit one trillion here in the US months ago. I've got $4,500 in student loan debt myself, my interest rate is 6.55%.

I keep hearing that they're expecting shortages in the medical, engineering and computer sciences fields... if it's such a worry, give government scholarships for people to learn these trades on the condition that they graduate and actually work in the field. Medical and engineering are some of, if not the, most expensive programs and that scares people off.

My friend Tim's mum actually took advantage of Obama wanting to send stay-at home mothers back to school. She's had her schooling paid for by the government and she's set to enter a nursing program in 2013. If done correctly, the government paying for university can be super effective.

Keep on raising tuition and you're going to see a huge dropout/college attendance rate. Lower it!

[Efflorescence]

I know that in the UK, there are two types of loans. There are tuition fees and maintenance loans. Tuition fees cover all of your maintenance loans, and maintenance loans are covered to award general costs and the amount you can receive is based on your family income.

The interest rates are very low, about 1.5% which just about cover for inflation mainly. Student loans are only taken out at 9% of gross income OVER £15,000 each tax year. And if it is never repaid off, it is canceled 25 years after graduation. So it's a very very safe loan and very fair in terms of the way it's paid off. Most people wouldn't notice it more than a bit of money that comes out of the monthly tax bill such as National Insurance and income tax.

From what I'm seeing in the UK you don't have it as bad as students in the USA or Canada. I know that in the UK, fees were raised from about £3000 to £9000 a year which is very expensive, but I saw a comment from an American girl when I was reading about it that said that in the USA the equivalent of £9000 are paid every 6 months in a top-notch university and some have it even higher.

I support tuition fees in the way they are being done by the UK government, which is how I understand them. This way, they do not particularly discriminate against poor families. Obviously if the loan terms are unfair and inaccessible then there is a problem but I am unsure whether this is just a myth that has gained a lot of stigma for striking those ethical chords in people. Maybe in the United States it is more applicable, but not here. People still complain though.

I was wrong when I said that students coming from poor families are going to suffer the most out of this. People complain because many of them are middle-class and from what I've heard some British people saying, for the poor people they are ready to reduce fees by a certain amount, but middle class people are screwed. This is because like in other countries, the middle class are not wealthy enough to pay but are not "poor enough" to be eligible for financial aid, so they have it worse in this situation.

Plus that the authorities have the habit of assuming that your parents' money = your money. In the USA, a friend told me that in order to be eligible for financial aid, they take into account your parent's income and if your parents have remarried, they also take into account your stepparents' income, which is bullshit to say the least. So if your stepfather happens to be a wealthy gentleman who doesn't want to help you out, or your own parents don't want to help you out for that matter, you're again, screwed. In reality, many students are on their own after 18, so the system is really not in the students' favour when it is basing financial aid on family income. Even in the UK, if your parents' income is above a certain amount you get nothing. Very messed up.

I think these are the main reasons why the students are protesting and I don't think it's fair to indirectly hint that they are being selfish because they care about their education, career and future. In a world such as ours, if you are not willing to stand up for yourself, no one will do it for you.

I was referring to the vast costs the government spends on compulsory education up to 16 here and then the money they spend on state voluntary education up to age 18. And why do the government need money? The UK has a financial deficit of well over a trillion pounds. Are you suggesting we pass it onto the next generation and then make those people even poorer and worse off than the student loan system indicates?

These graduates will have greater problems with getting a mortgage, buying a car etc., especially if, as I've said before, they happen to be middle class. They will have more debts.They have a lifelong disadvantage and this may also impede them from being able to help their children later on. I seriously doubt how the next generation is going to be better off this way.

And you think that this will not have a negative effect on the dropout rate? That's what the British coalition government seems to think but, I think it's in for a rude awakening.

Completely dud point as what you have suggested is an action that is taking place all over the country. The police service are experiencing monumental cuts over the next few years, there have been thousands of redundancies in the military due to cuts and the ambulance service is also cutting back significantly. It's not just tuition fees, but as they are what affects you it's all you choose to see.

Completely dud point seeing that this action that is taking place is also affecting students' jobs as well. Students get jobs to pay their debts. Now since jobs are experiencing cuts, it will be more difficult for students to find a job and if they do, they will have lower wages. They already have to deal with that. The situation is made worse because now they are going to have to pay more money for college. Lower wages and more money to pay.

Not only that, but if the police service and other jobs will be experiencing cuts, once these students get out of college, they are going to find jobs that pay less due to cuts and this is also going to affect them negatively especially now that they have more debts to pay.

If you're a student living in Britain or in USA with parents who are middle-class or even well-off, and who refuse to pay for your education, you're in deep shit.

It's not just tuition fees, but as they are what affects you it's all you choose to see.

As I've already said, where I live (Malta), post-secondary education is free so this is not going to affect me at all. However, I am able to empathize with these students who will be facing many more challenges from now on.

[Korashk]

8000 $ for a year? Seriously? That's cheap.

But what kind of courses do they offer? Humanaties/Liberal Arts? Eitherway, you will still be able to get a job with a decent salary.
Not $8000 for a year, $8000 total. Although that's probably low-balling it.

Here's a list of programs. (https://public.delta.edu/catalog/Pages/Default.aspx)

[Fuzzyevil]

@I think when it comes to education and specially tuition no fees should be taken! It's just my opinion! But I'll go that tuition fees should no be increased! :)

[Party256]

They shouldn't be raised, if they are then it damages future opportunities .

[Emerald Dream]

Please do not post in threads with more than two months of inactivity.

This is over a year old. :locked: