Do you think theres free will in heaven?

[ApresMidi]

We were discussing in RS.

Heaven is a niccceee place . Agreed?Okay good.

But why?

Because everyones perfect [ going with the view of to get to heaven you have been forgiven or spent time in purgatory].

Okay. So how are they kept perfect? Because what stops you from doing something 'bad' in Heaven ?

If you can't sin , surely theres no free will in Heaven?
If you can, its not Heaven...

Hmmm...

Not trying to be repetitive. Dont know if this subject is done to death. Not trying to be 'pro/con God.

[Sugaree]

Everyone is "perfect" because, according to Catholicism, God grants them with the privilege of everlasting life. However, as apparent in the fall of Lucifer from Heaven, one can technically sin in Heaven. Since Heaven is populated by souls, the same souls which had free will on Earth, it would be logically sound to think that same free will "carries over".

[Genghis Khan]

Free will doesn't exist anyway.

[Abnormal]

The one reason I don't want to go to Heaven is because I feel that I will fuck up and sin somehow and get kicked right to Hell. I think there IS freewill in heaven, but chances are if you go up there you're going to have to follow some kind of strict set of rules and will be more or less of a kind of dictatorship. >>

[Stryker125]

I'm sure there's free will there. Maybe it's kind of like the garden of Eden, before they ate the fruit, Adam and Eve had no concept of evil, and therefore could do no wrong. Maybe in heaven no one has a concept of doing wrong..but then there's the whole thing with Lucifer, so I dunno..

[MisterSix]

No ones perfect, everyone sins, that's why you acknowledge your sins and confess them to a man of god.

Why are there so many biased religion bashing threads on this forum?

[ImCoolBeans]

No ones perfect, everyone sins, that's why you acknowledge your sins and confess them to a man of god.

Why are there so many biased religion bashing threads on this forum?

Would you expect anything less than that in a debate section? :P

Heaven is populated by the souls which deserve to be there, and have gotten into Heaven. Those souls are the "good" ones. How "free" is your "free will"? Because loving who you want to love falls under free will, but being openly gay can do the same. Those two are very closely related, but fall on very opposite ends of the spectrum when you're talking about Heaven and religion.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

Since it only briefly explains heaven in the Bible, I really just had to use my imagination.

I think that you will be free to do what you feel is right and live life in good terms and have the same choice you do here on earth.

[ImCoolBeans]

Since it only briefly explains heaven in the Bible, I really just had to use my imagination.

I think that you will be free to do what you feel is right and live life in good terms and have the same choice you do here on earth.

But what if I think date rape and incest is "right"?

[Genghis Khan]

Since it only briefly explains heaven in the Bible, I really just had to use my imagination.

I think that you will be free to do what you feel is right and live life in good terms and have the same choice you do here on earth.

Yeah, good is entirely subjective to the individual.

[embers]

But what if I think date rape and incest is "right"?

I don't think you'd be in heaven in the first place if you thought rape and incest is right.

[Kanindrum]

I have always grown up studying the Bible being a pastor's son and all. The Bible actually explains Hell more than it does about Heaven. I think it's mainly because when we get to Heaven, He wants it to be more miraculous than we ever could conceive... however He wants us to be fully aware of why Hell isn't where we want to go. It's kind of interesting honestly.

[BassSwagg]

Im almost sure there is free will in Heaven. You can do anything you want but if you have "free will" to "sin" then God has free will to kick your ass out of Heaven. Lucifer was only bannished from Heaven for loving his Father too much. He despised humans for thier imperfections. He didn't like the thought of his Father creating beings with imperfections so he wanted to take man out of the picture which was against Gods will so Lucifer fell from Heaven.

[Truth]

I don't think you'd be in heaven in the first place if you thought rape and incest is right. Which literally translates to "no free will".


I do not approve of either of those things, but the answer is obvious that god does not allow free will. Free will is the reason the devil exists.

[Cicero]

But what if I think date rape and incest is "right"?

That's why different religions say what's right and wrong. In speaking of the Roman Catholic/Christian religion, incest is wrong :P

In the Holy Bible, God says all the requirements for getting into heaven. Just because you can't sin, doesn't mean there's no free will. There are many translations, but from one, we won't know what sin is, even if we did we wouldn't be tempted. It will be just like it was in the Garden of Eden, but without the temptation. No one can understand the bible, people study the bible their whole lives, and don't understand all of the bible.

But he says if you repent from the sin you do. All will be forgiven, new, clean slate. But God does not allow sin in heaven. Because he is Holy, if he were to allow sin, then he isn't holy. Because in order to be holy, no sin can be present. God created Satan so that we may have a choice here on earth. God new Satan would turn against God and get greedy. If Satan didn't exist, there wouldn't have been any tempting of Adam and Eve, if there wasn't any tempting of Adam and Eve, then we would all be in the Garden of Eden. Meaning, we would still be living a sinless, perfect life.

So in heaven, we won't even know what sin is. God says there will only be happiness, but many people will go to hell. I'm sure your wondering, how are they happy if, say, their mother went to hell. Well many scholars believe that ours minds will forget everyone on earth. We will only recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm sure there will be plenty of things to do in heaven. But I do not believe in the saying that "If your a good person you will go to heaven" because everyone, in a sense, is good. Al Capone was a good guy, even though he killed many people, he donated millions to charity. Hitler and his people believed he was good, does that mean he went to heaven?

I personally think the expression good, is made up by society. Because the meaning normal is always changing, back in the 1950s, being gay wasn't normal or being disrespectful to parents wasn't normal or thinking of African Americans as equals wasn't normal. But in 2012, being gay and disrespecting parents is pretty normal and thinking of African Americans as equals is normal. So what's good now, was unheard of back in the 50s and was frowned upon. That's why God says what will get someone into heaven.

(Most of that was comments to 4+ comments)

But I believe God will make us forget about sin. We won't even know, what sinning is. I think that we will look at everyone as our Brothers and Sisters in Christ. So if we don't know what something is we won't have a desire to do it.

[Azunite]

I think we live in a realm where free will is merely choosing whom to obey.

So it's hard to say: "Should I obey God or God?"

[ImCoolBeans]

That's why different religions say what's right and wrong. In speaking of the Roman Catholic/Christian religion, incest is wrong :P

In the Holy Bible, God says all the requirements for getting into heaven. Just because you can't sin, doesn't mean there's no free will. There are many translations, but from one, we won't know what sin is, even if we did we wouldn't be tempted. It will be just like it was in the Garden of Eden, but without the temptation. No one can understand the bible, people study the bible their whole lives, and don't understand all of the bible.

But he says if you repent from the sin you do. All will be forgiven, new, clean slate. But God does not allow sin in heaven. Because he is Holy, if he were to allow sin, then he isn't holy. Because in order to be holy, no sin can be present. God created Satan so that we may have a choice here on earth. God new Satan would turn against God and get greedy. If Satan didn't exist, there wouldn't have been any tempting of Adam and Eve, if there wasn't any tempting of Adam and Eve, then we would all be in the Garden of Eden. Meaning, we would still be living a sinless, perfect life.

So in heaven, we won't even know what sin is. God says there will only be happiness, but many people will go to hell. I'm sure your wondering, how are they happy if, say, their mother went to hell. Well many scholars believe that ours minds will forget everyone on earth. We will only recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm sure there will be plenty of things to do in heaven. But I do not believe in the saying that "If your a good person you will go to heaven" because everyone, in a sense, is good. Al Capone was a good guy, even though he killed many people, he donated millions to charity. Hitler and his people believed he was good, does that mean he went to heaven?

I personally think the expression good, is made up by society. Because the meaning normal is always changing, back in the 1950s, being gay wasn't normal or being disrespectful to parents wasn't normal or thinking of African Americans as equals wasn't normal. But in 2012, being gay and disrespecting parents is pretty normal and thinking of African Americans as equals is normal. So what's good now, was unheard of back in the 50s and was frowned upon. That's why God says what will get someone into heaven.

(Most of that was comments to 4+ comments)

But I believe God will make us forget about sin. We won't even know, what sinning is. I think that we will look at everyone as our Brothers and Sisters in Christ. So if we don't know what something is we won't have a desire to do it.

So the tl;dr for that is basically there is no free will? This is all so subjective and both sides of the argument aren't very well supported.

[embers]

Which literally translates to "no free will".

Nope, it simply describes where people who use 'free will' differently end up. I assume that in heaven one would be completely capable of 'sinning' but wouldn't do so anyway because of the type of person that they are.

[SLABBS]

in the portrayal of heaven, you are put into your spiritual body, which is supposed to be perfect. which would imply that you feel perfect all the time, so you wouldnt have an negative inhebitions or lust for anything to make you feel better as you already feel perfect. so there would be no hate or murder. and if everyones body is perfect and everyone has no negative inhebitions there would be no need for sexual sinning as any girl would be just as perfect as the other. also your supposed to have unearthly riches and posetions so there would be no need for coveting our neighbors goods. so esencialy sinning would be almost imposible in heaven even then im sure sin would be tolerated to an extent. humans are portayed as born sinners as there soul is born in sin. and in heaven you would be your same soul. therefore your just a forgivin sinning soul in heaven. or maybe ive just overthought this and im rambling in a circle...

[Fruity Drink]

Heaven is a perfect place, because according to the bible and teachings... that once we die, and enter heaven, we are completely without sin. it has nothing to do with free will, everyone is PERFECT, exactly in god's image.

[canadaski]

I won't bother.

[WickedWeekend]

Only read the OP, but I think that there is free will, but that will can only match the will of God's. Now, non-Christians, don't debate with this, because we can never reach a middle point.

[Continuum]

Heaven is a perfect place, because according to the bible and teachings... that once we die, and enter heaven, we are completely without sin. it has nothing to do with free will, everyone is PERFECT, exactly in god's image.

But Free Will is the instigator of Sin itself. Without Free Will, would it be possible to sin? And since the "Perfect Beings" had the capability to sin, in heaven too, why not the lowly human souls that go to Heaven too? We may lack the knowledge to sin there, but we have the full capability to do so. But what your definition of "Perfection" is the lack of sin. The "Perfection" you speak of can only apply to God, and not to the Humans you speak of, because we still keep our capability to sin. Those Angels, the supposed "Perfect Beings" after God, had also sinned according to the Christian Mythos. Where did their knowledge of Sin come from?

Free Will and Sin is intertwined, and possibly be connected to Self-Recognition. Lucifer, according to the Christian Mythos, is known to have sinned because of his Pride, for being one of God's elite. Which means, he is technically aware of his status. The only way for God to completely eradicate Sin is to take away Self-Recognition itself, and in turn, Free Will and Sin. So, in heaven, given the conditions above, we may as well be mindless Shamblers, kept eternally blissful and ignorant by the higher powers. A Brave New World, anyone?

[BuryYourFlame]

Also, if god had somehow 'taken' our knowledge/desire of sin away, wouldn't that be an imposition against our own free will anyway?

I don't really have anything more to add than what's already been said, just thought I would throw that out there.

[Abyssal Echo]

Idk if there is or isn't free will in Heaven and to be honest not worried about it. for the simple reason I'm going to hell !

[ApresMidi]

Hahaha I seem to have provoked debate :) We have fun debates in RS :)
And for the record, boringly, I'm on the fence on this one. Well, we'll all find out someday..... :) :3 <3