Being gay isnt a sin in the bible

[Destructive Impulse]

First off im straight but there is a major misconception that the bible forbids gays and says that homosexuality will send you to hell. That is extremely wrong. Few people know this as everyone blindly repeats what others say. The truth is the only reason being gay could be seen as a sin in any form of Christianity is because people who are gay have sex out of marriage which is a sin. However many states dont allow gay marriage so if a gay couple wants to have sex they are committing sin. If they get married they aren't winning at all and therefore won't be going to hell. The bible says nothing about how loving another man is wrong and their are multiple stories about gay men.

So the next time some idiot says gay people will go to hell set their ignorant ass straight.

[Abigballofdust]

First off im straight but there is a major misconception that the bible forbids gays and says that homosexuality will send you to hell. That is extremely wrong. Few people know this as everyone blindly repeats what others say. The truth is the only reason being gay could be seen as a sin in any form of Christianity is because people who are gay have sex out of marriage which is a sin. However many states dont allow gay marriage so if a gay couple wants to have sex they are committing sin. If they get married they aren't winning at all and therefore won't be going to hell. The bible says nothing about how loving another man is wrong and their are multiple stories about gay men.

So the next time some idiot says gay people will go to hell set their ignorant ass straight.

According to the bible, the only way to have 'legal' sex is to be church married and use seed only with intent to procreate (CI, preservatives, masturbation, oral sex, etc... are all sins)
Even though some states allow civil marriage, getting in a gay marriage won't give you permission to have sex legally before God because first, you didn't get married in a church and second, you can't procreate in a same-sex relationship.

HOWEVER, the sole fact of you being gay and loving an other man is no sin before the bible. Love is not a sin, regardless who you love. Passion may be a sin, dirty thoughts may be a sin, but loving somebody of the same sex as you are isn't.
Having sex with a male is no bigger sin than your parents doing it for love in their bedroom while you're asleep.

[Truth]

It is against gay marriage, even though it promotes acceptance, it specifically denies gay sexual relations.

[OregonStateDude]

Amen, my brother! It's ridiculous to think I am going to Hell for something that wasn't even my choice.

[Gothicdeer]

It says "a man shall not lay with another man" plainly...I am NOT sayin you'll go to hell and I'm NOT prejudice but its a major sin...but I firmly believe God forgives if you ask

[ExhibitG]

i'm a catholic myself and i'm 100% for gay rights, but i have to say posts like this don't make much sense to me at all. the bible is based on faith and nothing more. it contains stories written from thousands of years ago and many of them in the old testament, which is where most of the gay stuff comes up, are written based on the beliefs of that time frame.

bottom line, if you try to find logic with what's in the bible, you'll be searching for a very long time.

[Noxail]

Why do I feel so weird being the first girl to post? :what: Anywho, I think that's a load of bull shit. When someone gives me the verses in the bible where it says that every gay/bi person out there is going to hell, I might believe them. I think that homophobic christans are the worst kind, because they want to pull every god damn thing from the bible that is iffy towards other's sexuality and slam it into everyone's face. I can solomly assure you as a straight girl and a southern Babtist, that if you think someone is going to hell over their sexuality, that your retarded. Just my two cents ~Holli :rolleyes:

[JackShephard]

According to the bible, the only way to have 'legal' sex is to be church married and use seed only with intent to procreate (CI, preservatives, masturbation, oral sex, etc... are all sins)
Even though some states allow civil marriage, getting in a gay marriage won't give you permission to have sex legally before God because first, you didn't get married in a church and second, you can't procreate in a same-sex relationship.

HOWEVER, the sole fact of you being gay and loving an other man is no sin before the bible. Love is not a sin, regardless who you love. Passion may be a sin, dirty thoughts may be a sin, but loving somebody of the same sex as you are isn't.
Having sex with a male is no bigger sin than your parents doing it for love in their bedroom while you're asleep.

Thank you!

[Abigballofdust]

It says "a man shall not lay with another man" plainly...I am NOT sayin you'll go to hell and I'm NOT prejudice but its a major sin...but I firmly believe God forgives if you ask

The same book you're quoting from says this as well:

A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the LORD. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.
Have you given a tenth of your belongings to the LORD? Why haven't you? Go repent yourself for you have sinned!

It also says:
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Think you should just start wandering around naked. Because there's hardly any clothes nowadays that are made of only one material. Repent yourself for you have sinned!

A few verses underneath:
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Are you shaving already? FYI, you're committing an abomination and will go to hell. Repent yourself for you have sinned!

Bottom line, the whole Bible was written over thousands of years and SOME text in it, may not be the word of God, don't you think?
It is not to be taken literally and most of all it is not to be taken as up to date, because it really isn't.
Now, I am not religious and therefore find all this incredibly unbelievable, however I think you, as a Christian, should either follow the whole Bible as it is written or not follow anything, because what you're doing now is hypocrisy.

[JackShephard]

The same book you're quoting from says this as well:


Have you given a tenth of your belongings to the LORD? Why haven't you? Go repent yourself for you have sinned!

It also says:

Think you should just start wandering around naked. Because there's hardly any clothes nowadays that are made of only one material. Repent yourself for you have sinned!

A few verses underneath:

Are you shaving already? FYI, you're committing an abomination and will go to hell. Repent yourself for you have sinned!

Bottom line, the whole Bible was written over thousands of years and SOME text in it, may not be the word of God, don't you think?
It is not to be taken literally and most of all it is not to be taken as up to date, because it really isn't.
Now, I am not religious and therefore find all this incredibly unbelievable, however I think you, as a Christian, should either follow the whole Bible as it is written or not follow anything, because what you're doing now is hypocrisy.

This thread is for the discussion of homosexuality and the bible. Not to correct people on their lifestyle.

[dannym2326]

Regardless of its opinion on gay marriage, the bible is ridiculous.

[Bath]

If homosexuality is a sin, why is it found in over 450 species?

I think the Bible is BS altogether, but even looking at it in a serious light, I find the whole "gay is sin" thing ridiculous. People tend to forget that humans are not above nature. We are as much as nature as a wild animal. If somebody is attracted to the same sex, it is natural.

[Magenta]

Teen Sexuality :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise

[Abigballofdust]

This thread is for the discussion of homosexuality and the bible. Not to correct people on their lifestyle.
I'm not correcting anybody.

Regardless of its opinion on gay marriage, the bible is ridiculous.
:yeah:

If homosexuality is a sin, why is it found in over 450 species?

I think the Bible is BS altogether, but even looking at it in a serious light, I find the whole "gay is sin" thing ridiculous. People tend to forget that humans are not above nature. We are as much as nature as a wild animal. If somebody is attracted to the same sex, it is natural.
As I said, the Bible was written by different people at different times, it has different views on different arguments and should not be taken literally.

[Genghis Khan]

I'm so sick of hearing this particular topic that every time someone brings it up I want to take a king-sized tub of penises infected with smegma and swim around them and make them hard and shove them inside every hole in my body and then sit on a Bible.

[JackShephard]

As I said, the Bible was written by different people at different times, it has different views on different arguments and should not be taken literally.

I feel that we may be in agreement. I JUST posted this a few minutes ago on another thread:

Let's assume that God exists. Going back to the scientific theory and the biblical belief on how old the earth is supposed to be, is it so hard to imagine that the writers of the bible where told something they could understand at the time? Thousands of years might be what they could only comprehend. Maybe even, they substituted what they believed where god did not actually inform them of that sort of thing. Does the age of the universe have a place in a book that is supposed to be about the teachings of God? Think about it. How many places in the bible tell you to do things that sound redicolus? And anyone who wrote a book in the bible could very be so corrupt that they where not actually transcribing a message from God. Who wouldn't want to be a part of the most powerful influence at the time? Not to mention how old the original texts are and how many times they have been translated. This is why I question the bible in some areas. I don't place my spiritual faith in people or their recordings. Who knows how flawed it really is?

So, basically, we can never know how accurate the bible really is. It's hard to say what's supposed to be in there.

[WickedWeekend]

I'm Baptist and personally think there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

But...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 /GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Don’t you know that wicked people won’t inherit the kingdom of God? Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals, or thieves, those who are greedy or drunk, who use abusive language, or who rob people will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Need I say more?

[TBJohnston]

"The bible says nothing about how loving another man is wrong and their are multiple stories about gay men."

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." (Leviticus 20:13).

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." (Romans 1:26-27)

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13).

Don't give me it isn't a real 'sin' bullshit, I'm not homophobic nor do I believe in the bible but you've completely ignored scripture and tried to pass off your own opinion for your gods. People say homosexuality is a sin because it's mentioned over and over again in the bible genius, if god didn't have a problem with it this thread wouldn't of been posted. Perhaps you should read the book instead of following the heard.

[Destructive Impulse]

I do read it. And my church leader was the one that told us that homosexuality wasn't a sin. This thread didn't turn out to be what I thought it would be as it turned to people insulting the bible and me. I mean I've tried staying out of this thread to let all y'all discuss it while I held my tongue while some of y'all besmirched my religion which I care alot about. All I tried to do was share a misconception that our church leader talked about. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I'm a little shocked that even the people that agreed with me still insulted Christianity. I respect yalls opinions I really do but please don't insult my religion. I just can't fathom why any of yall would do something like that.

[TBJohnston]

So your church leaders opinion is greater than gods word?

Edit: Never mind, I don't even know what I'm trying to argue here considering that you aren't one of those pesky homophobic Christians. Though, you do need to realise that your views contradict with the book you believe in; you might want to re-asses the beliefs for yourself.

[WickedWeekend]

my church leader was the one that told us that homosexuality wasn't a sin. This thread didn't turn out to be what I thought it would be as it turned to people insulting the bible and me. I mean I've tried staying out of this thread to let all y'all discuss it while I held my tongue while some of y'all besmirched my religion which I care alot about. All I tried to do was share a misconception that our church leader talked about. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I'm a little shocked that even the people that agreed with me still insulted Christianity. I respect yalls opinions I really do but please don't insult my religion. I just can't fathom why any of yall would do something like that.

We aren't insulting anyone's religion. We're just debating. Even if we are purposefully insulting each other, you don't need to mini-mod. Just report the "insulting post" and a mod will get to it.

Back on track. You say your church leader made a misconception. How can you make a misconception on a topic that is purely based on opinion, "is homosexuality wrong or not?" I think what you meant to say is that your church leader totally disregarded the Word and made his own opinion. That's not bad at all, except the fact he most likely put it in a sermon, or put his word above God's, which shouldn't be done in a church environment. In a church, never say anything positive about homosexuality. He made that mistake.

[ImCoolBeans]

Regardless if it's a sin or not: who really gives a fuck? If the Bible, the Torah or even Hammurabi's code wants to tell me that I can't like boys, or that it's frowned upon, then they can continue doing it. It's not like what they say can or will sway my sexuality.

[Cicero]

First off im straight but there is a major misconception that the bible forbids gays and says that homosexuality will send you to hell. That is extremely wrong. Few people know this as everyone blindly repeats what others say. The truth is the only reason being gay could be seen as a sin in any form of Christianity is because people who are gay have sex out of marriage which is a sin. However many states dont allow gay marriage so if a gay couple wants to have sex they are committing sin. If they get married they aren't winning at all and therefore won't be going to hell. The bible says nothing about how loving another man is wrong and their are multiple stories about gay men.

So the next time some idiot says gay people will go to hell set their ignorant ass straight.

Pretty bold just saying that. Even though you're extremely wrong, because the bible does address homosexuality. You're not a Priest/Pastor so you apparently know nothing of the Bible.

Here is what the Bible says:

Timothy 1:9-11
9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

Thats what the Bible says, but you can either believe God meant what he actual said or you can believe what he said was just suggestions to life. Some people believe that the Bible is an accumulation of Analogies and stories, others believe that the Bible is what it is and is true. But just sayin' most everything enjoyable is a sin, masturbating, cussing, thinking dirty thoughts, etc.

But the truth of the matter is The only way someone will not go to heaven is if they do not accept Jesus Christ. That's what it says in the Christian faith. Even though I myself am a Christian I try to never take sides and I try to make my own beliefs on what I think, not what my parents think/say, not what the Bible says, but what I think/say. I have nothing against Gays. I just wanted to show him that scripture to prove to him that it mentions it in the bible.

I do read it. And my church leader was the one that told us that homosexuality wasn't a sin. This thread didn't turn out to be what I thought it would be as it turned to people insulting the bible and me. I mean I've tried staying out of this thread to let all y'all discuss it while I held my tongue while some of y'all besmirched my religion which I care alot about. All I tried to do was share a misconception that our church leader talked about. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I'm a little shocked that even the people that agreed with me still insulted Christianity. I respect yalls opinions I really do but please don't insult my religion. I just can't fathom why any of yall would do something like that.

Your church leader doesn't know everything. When you go to your church actually open up your bible to the verses he reads. If he is reading them wrong or twisting the words, your church is messed up. FYI this is a debate forum, defend what you believe in. Don't whine about it, VT in general isn't a Pro-Christian belief website.

Here is a sermon you should listen to:
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/GTY89/answering-key-questions-about-homosexuality

The Pastor who does the Sermons is a Well recognized Pastor of the Christian faith. I'm Catholic and even I've heard of him.

The edit button exits, use it. Don't double post ~ ImCoolBeans

[WickedWeekend]

Also, you say there are multiple stories about it in the Bible.

Show us.

[Cicero]

Also, you say there are multiple stories about it in the Bible.

Show us.

Who me?

[WickedWeekend]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. :/

The OP.

[manlymadness]

how are we supposed to be judged on something that is out of our control! At the end of the day it is not your right to judge what is right or wrong! I believe LOVE should be LIMITLESS & have no BOUNDARIES!

Please don't post in whacky and wild colors, I nearly went blind reading that ~ ImCoolBeans

[HDDH]

The same book you're quoting from says this as well:
...

"You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, as of woolen and linen together."



Thank you! Surely the ridiculous commands of the Bible, the commands you must follow even though you physically or psychologically can't, are damaging and hypocritical. An example:


"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's."


Of the Decalogue, there is one that tells you not to even think about being jealous. How incredibly ridiculous that the Lord would hardwire into you the human and animal impulse of jealousy and then command you not to follow it.

The same goes with being gay in the Bible. Yes, the Bible expressly forbids gay sex and generally, it's pretty much not for gays as a whole. So either, you follow the word of God or you trust your own judgement and self more than any unknowable (non-existent) being. At this point I'd like to digress and extend my thanks to the Bible for also influencing antisemitic feelings, influencing racial hatred, influencing the view of women as second class citizens and retarding civilisation. In something so fundamental and unchangeable as being gay is forbidden in the Bible and all monotheisms, then I suggest that you can only ever either view the whole thing as a man made product of it's time, or you blindly follow it into the abyss.

[Abigballofdust]

Thank you! Surely the ridiculous commands of the Bible, the commands you must follow even though you physically or psychologically can't, are damaging and hypocritical. An example:



Of the Decalogue, there is one that tells you not to even think about being jealous. How incredibly ridiculous that the Lord would hardwire into you the human and animal impulse of jealousy and then command you not to follow it.

The same goes with being gay in the Bible. Yes, the Bible expressly forbids gay sex and generally, it's pretty much not for gays as a whole. So either, you follow the word of God or you trust your own judgement and self more than any unknowable (non-existent) being. At this point I'd like to digress and extend my thanks to the Bible for also influencing antisemitic feelings, influencing racial hatred, influencing the view of women as second class citizens and retarding civilisation. In something so fundamental and unchangeable as being gay is forbidden in the Bible and all monotheisms, then I suggest that you can only ever either view the whole thing as a man made product of it's time, or you blindly follow it into the abyss.

Talking about women: there's no reason why a modern, self conscious, independent and free woman should even come close to a Bible without getting offended, let alone accept it.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Lev. 20:13

So yes, having sexual relations with another man is considered "detestable" and punishable by death, according to the bible. Now, one could argue that it's OK to be homosexual as long as you don't have sex with another man.

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." - Matt. 5 21-22

Basically this is saying murder is not just physical. If you so much as think a bad though or hate your neighbor it is just as bad as gutting him with a sword. This could possibly be applied to sexual thoughts too (not just homosexual ones either).

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." - James 2:10

These two verses are saying that all sin is equal. Whether you use the Lord's name in vane or you kill someone you WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. On the other hand if you believe Jesus died on the cross and repent your sins are forgiven (John 3:16). What does that all mean? It means ALL sins are equal. If God can forgive you for killing someone he can just as easily forgive homosexuality.

Summary
Yes, homosexuality is a sin, but it is no worse than any other sin. If you believe and repent you will be forgiven.


I am an athiest. I do not believe in anything mentioned above (except that gays should be treated equally).

[Cicero]

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Lev. 20:13

So yes, having sexual relations with another man is considered "detestable" and punishable by death, according to the bible. Now, one could argue that it's OK to be homosexual as long as you don't have sex with another man.

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." - Matt. 5 21-22

Basically this is saying murder is not just physical. If you so much as think a bad though or hate your neighbor it is just as bad as gutting him with a sword. This could possibly be applied to sexual thoughts too (not just homosexual ones either).

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." - James 2:10

These two verses are saying that all sin is equal. Whether you use the Lord's name in vane or you kill someone you WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. On the other hand if you believe Jesus died on the cross and repent your sins are forgiven (John 3:16). What does that all mean? It means ALL sins are equal. If God can forgive you for killing someone he can just as easily forgive homosexuality.

Summary
Yes, homosexuality is a sin, but it is no worse than any other sin. If you believe and repent you will be forgiven.


I am an athiest. I do not believe in anything mentioned above (except that gays should be treated equally).


TBH you can be Charles Manson and still go to heaven. But he has to turn from his ways and accept Jesus Christ in your heart. But also, God says that people will inherent different things in heaven based off of different things they did on earth. Charles Manson wont get the same gifts as someone who lived his whole life for God. Your rewarded for what you do on earth. But the biggest sin is to not accept Jesus Christ in your heart, that's the worst sin you can commit.

Any thoughts you think are a sin. If your a guy and your thinking about having sex with another guy it's a sin. If your a guy thinking about sex with a woman that's a sin. What many Christians say, is that if you were a Christian and you had Jesus Christ in your heart. You wouldn't want to be homosexual, thinking about committing a sin would repulse a true Christian. That's the thing that is a huge battle between Christians, cause some say that you can be gay and Christian. While others say you cannot.

They say you can be gay because they say that the bible meant its a sin to be gay for that period of time. Wheras the other half of Christians say that God meant it to be for all of humans, for as long as the earth and humans existed.

Meaning, that even though all sin is equal. Being a Christian you wouldn't wnt to sin, sin should disgust a True believer in Christ. So, being homosexual is a sin according to a few of the scriptures I mentioned in my other post.

That's what the real debate is about. I mentioned both sides, why gays think its ok to be gay and Christian and why other Christians believe its not ok to be gay and Christian.

[Drew5]

First off im straight but there is a major misconception that the bible forbids gays and says that homosexuality will send you to hell. That is extremely wrong. Few people know this as everyone blindly repeats what others say. The truth is the only reason being gay could be seen as a sin in any form of Christianity is because people who are gay have sex out of marriage which is a sin. However many states dont allow gay marriage so if a gay couple wants to have sex they are committing sin. If they get married they aren't winning at all and therefore won't be going to hell. The bible says nothing about how loving another man is wrong and their are multiple stories about gay men.

So the next time some idiot says gay people will go to hell set their ignorant ass straight.
Maybe

[PerpetualImperfexion]

But also, God says that people will inherent different things in heaven based off of different things they did on earth.

Can you quote me a verse where it says this?

Your rewarded for what you do on earth.

“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” - Titus 3:5

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” - Ephesians 8-9

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” - Galatians 2:16

Need I say more?

But the biggest sin is to not accept Jesus Christ in your heart, that's the worst sin you can commit.

Yep

Any thoughts you think are a sin. If your a guy and your thinking about having sex with another guy it's a sin. If your a guy thinking about sex with a woman that's a sin. What many Christians say, is that if you were a Christian and you had Jesus Christ in your heart. You wouldn't want to be homosexual, thinking about committing a sin would repulse a true Christian. That's the thing that is a huge battle between Christians, cause some say that you can be gay and Christian. While others say you cannot.

They say you can be gay because they say that the bible meant its a sin to be gay for that period of time. Wheras the other half of Christians say that God meant it to be for all of humans, for as long as the earth and humans existed.

Meaning, that even though all sin is equal. Being a Christian you wouldn't wnt to sin, sin should disgust a True believer in Christ. So, being homosexual is a sin according to a few of the scriptures I mentioned in my other post.

That's what the real debate is about. I mentioned both sides, why gays think its ok to be gay and Christian and why other Christians believe its not ok to be gay and Christian.

I'm not sure if you're Christian or not but lemme just ask you, do you look at a girls (or guys) butt if you get the opportunity? Don't you enjoy those few seconds? You say Christians find the idea of sinning detestable and yet they just as easily enjoy being perverted. Seems kinda hypocritical.

[Cicero]

Can you quote me a verse where it says this?



“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” - Titus 3:5

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” - Ephesians 8-9

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” - Galatians 2:16

Need I say more?



Yep



I'm not sure if you're Christian or not but lemme just ask you, do you look at a girls (or guys) butt if you get the opportunity? Don't you enjoy those few seconds? You say Christians find the idea of sinning detestable and yet they just as easily enjoy being perverted. Seems kinda hypocritical.

Well that's humans. Some sins Christians find repulsive but when it comes to them, they never want to give up they're sins. No one is perfect. I was just saying that there are people out there who say that about gays. Yet gays say that God said it was a sin to be gay, back in the time. But now since its a new day in age, its not a sin. Then I said that the other half of Christians say that if your a true Christian you wouldn't want to sin. The idea would repulsive a true believer. That's the two sides I had said.

For me personally, I dont mind thinking sexual thoughts, lying, and cussing.

Can you quote me a verse where it says this?



“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” - Titus 3:5

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” - Ephesians 8-9

“Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” - Galatians 2:16

Need I say more?



Yep



I'm not sure if you're Christian or not but lemme just ask you, do you look at a girls (or guys) butt if you get the opportunity? Don't you enjoy those few seconds? You say Christians find the idea of sinning detestable and yet they just as easily enjoy being perverted. Seems kinda hypocritical.

About good works:
That's dumb saying that because it's like saying that Charles Manson will inherent the same things as Mother Theresa when they both go to heaven. Mother Theresa lived her whole life for God, Manson didn't. (that is if, Manson became Christian)

Psalm 145 9-12
9 The Lord is good to all, And His tender mercies are over all His works.
10 All Your works shall praise You, O Lord, And Your saints shall bless You.
11 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom, And talk of Your power,
12 To make known to the sons of men His mighty acts, And the glorious majesty of His kingdom.

John 3:21
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Peter 3:17
17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

Romans 2:10
10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Use the edit button instead of posting twice in a row! ~ ImCoolBeans

[PerpetualImperfexion]

About good works:
That's dumb saying that because it's like saying that Charles Manson will inherent the same things as Mother Theresa when they both go to heaven. Mother Theresa lived her whole life for God, Manson didn't. (that is if, Manson became Christian)

Psalm 145 9-12
9 The Lord is good to all, And His tender mercies are over all His works.
10 All Your works shall praise You, O Lord, And Your saints shall bless You.
11 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom, And talk of Your power,
12 To make known to the sons of men His mighty acts, And the glorious majesty of His kingdom.

John 3:21
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Peter 3:17
17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

Romans 2:10
10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1. I do not understand how any of those verses back up your claim that some people who go to heaven (assuming this is all real even though I don't believe it) will be better off than others

2. I agree that mother Theresa's after life should be better than Manson's but according to the bible, that isn't how it works (or at least you have yet to prove that to me)

p.s. Double post?

[Cicero]

1. I do not understand how any of those verses back up your claim that some people who go to heaven (assuming this is all real even though I don't believe it) will be better off than others

2. I agree that mother Theresa's after life should be better than Manson's but according to the bible, that isn't how it works (or at least you have yet to prove that to me)

p.s. Double post?


There's only way to find out if those are real, look in the bible :eek:

James 3:13
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

Hebrews 6:9
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
Things that accompany salvation... Which is speaking about good works in the name of the Lord will accompany you into heaven.

1 Peter 2:12
12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

There's only way to find out if those are real, look in the bible :eek:

James 3:13
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

Hebrews 6:9
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
Things that accompany salvation... Which is speaking about good works in the name of the Lord will accompany you into heaven.

1 Peter 2:12
12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

I see how the second one talks about how good works get you in to heaven but I'd like to point something out to you.

Old Testament:
"Your people will be burned up completely, like thornbushes cut down and tossed in a fire." - Isaiah 33:14

New Testament:
John 3:16

The third verse talks about how good works glorify God, not about how they get you a better place in heaven.

The first verse is like the third.

[Cicero]

I see how the second one talks about how good works get you in to heaven but I'd like to point something out to you.

Old Testament:
"Your people will be burned up completely, like thornbushes cut down and tossed in a fire." - Isaiah 33:14

New Testament:
John 3:16

The third verse talks about how good works glorify God, not about how they get you a better place in heaven.

The first verse is like the third.

Ya I know they don't get you a better place. I mean that you get better stuff and you will be recognized for your good acts.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Ya I know they don't get you a better place. I mean that you get better stuff and you will be recognized for your good acts.

I alright I understand the whole being recognized as a better person (it makes me wonder if such a horrible person like manson would even wanna be in heaven), but in none of those verses does it say you get better stuff.

[viper]

It does say that a man should not lay another man also sex before marrige is a sin too. if your not gay dont post this. thos is between gay people and God not you

[WickedWeekend]

It does say that a man should not lay another man also sex before marrige is a sin too. if your not gay dont post this. thos is between gay people and God not you

Didn't understand most of it. However, every sin is the same in God's eyes. That doesn't mean we do it! Even though we repent for being gay, and are forgiven, God frowns about repeating the same sin. Don't think, "I can sin, repent, then do the same thing, very well knowing I'm doing a bad thing."

This is just laughable.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Didn't understand most of it. However, every sin is the same in God's eyes. That doesn't mean we do it! Even though we repent for being gay, and are forgiven, God frowns about repeating the same sin. Don't think, "I can sin, repent, then do the same thing, very well knowing I'm doing a bad thing."

This is just laughable.

Ha so how many times can I use the Lord's name in vein before I'm destined to burn in hell? How many times can I disobey my parents? How many times am I allowed to lie? Could you please give me a verse that answers any of these questions? Yes, the idea of this is "laughable" but I have yet to see a place in the bible where it says you are only allowed to commit a certain sin a certain amount of times. The only thing I see is "Repent and you shall be forgiven." Please don't quote me old testament verses either.

[WickedWeekend]

Ha so how many times can I use the Lord's name in vein before I'm destined to burn in hell? How many times can I disobey my parents? How many times am I allowed to lie? Could you please give me a verse that answers any of these questions? Yes, the idea of this is "laughable" but I have yet to see a place in the bible where it says you are only allowed to commit a certain sin a certain amount of times. The only thing I see is "Repent and you shall be forgiven." Please don't quote me old testament verses either.

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't falsely repent knowing you are going to continue in the same exact sin.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't falsely repent knowing you are going to continue in the same exact sin.

But the bible tells me to repent. Besides if not repenting means I'm gonna burn in hell of course im gonna repent. Nice to be an atheist though, where I don't have to worry about this sort of thing. I'm either right and when I die I'll rot in the ground or I'm wrong and I'll burn for eternity. Either thing seems better that spending an eternity with a being as evil as God.

[Drew5]

Didn't understand most of it. However, every sin is the same in God's eyes. That doesn't mean we do it! Even though we repent for being gay, and are forgiven, God frowns about repeating the same sin. Don't think, "I can sin, repent, then do the same thing, very well knowing I'm doing a bad thing."

This is just laughable.

Nailed it

[ImCoolBeans]

Ha so how many times can I use the Lord's name in vein before I'm destined to burn in hell? How many times can I disobey my parents? How many times am I allowed to lie? Could you please give me a verse that answers any of these questions? Yes, the idea of this is "laughable" but I have yet to see a place in the bible where it says you are only allowed to commit a certain sin a certain amount of times. The only thing I see is "Repent and you shall be forgiven." Please don't quote me old testament verses either.

So if I don't repent liking dick I won't be forgiven? Aw shucks...

But regardless, I think the idea of me, or anyone, being deemed a "sinner" for something that we can't exactly choose for ourselves is a bit ridiculous. These are all extremely old, basically ancient, ideas and principals. The only reason why we still follow them is because it's what we know and what we've been brought up on. Think about it this way: if we had been brought up into a culture in lets say a remote desert where Christianity had not be spread, and all of the men were homosexual, but would mate with females only to carry on life and the tribe, we would be saying "wow that Christianity shit is crazy".

[PerpetualImperfexion]

So if I don't repent liking dick I won't be forgiven? Aw shucks...

But regardless, I think the idea of me, or anyone, being deemed a "sinner" for something that we can't exactly choose for ourselves is a bit ridiculous. These are all extremely old, basically ancient, ideas and principals. The only reason why we still follow them is because it's what we know and what we've been brought up on. Think about it this way: if we had been brought up into a culture in lets say a remote desert where Christianity had not be spread, and all of the men were homosexual, but would mate with females only to carry on life and the tribe, we would be saying "wow that Christianity shit is crazy".

Ha I was arguing from a Christian's point of view. Guess I got too into it. I'm an atheist and I completely agree that it is bullshit that some people are deemed sinners for liking the same sex. And you're correct I think certain rules in the bible have lost they're usefulness in modern day society. I found the story about the homosexuals in the desert pretty funny, but true.

[ImCoolBeans]

Ha I was arguing from a Christian's point of view. Guess I got too into it. I'm an atheist and I completely agree that it is bullshit that some people are deemed sinners for liking the opposite sex. And you're correct I think certain rules in the bible have lost they're usefulness in modern day society. I found the story about the homosexuals in the desert pretty funny, but true.

You mean the same sex :P

But yeah, I totally agree, whether it's a sin in the Bible or not, does it really make a difference? Does it really change anything? Because I know it does not change my feelings at all, nor do I or have I ever really given any kind of fuck about that. Sure that's coming from somebody who doesn't really like the idea of religion in general, but I didn't always feel that way, so it isn't a totally biased point of view.

[WickedWeekend]

You mean the same sex :P

But yeah, I totally agree, whether it's a sin in the Bible or not, does it really make a difference? Does it really change anything? Because I know it does not change my feelings at all, nor do I or have I ever really given any kind of fuck about that. Sure that's coming from somebody who doesn't really like the idea of religion in general, but I didn't always feel that way, so it isn't a totally biased point of view.

Of course it doesn't matter. We are told not to lie, but how many times have you lied today? Mhmm.

[ImCoolBeans]

Of course it doesn't matter. We are told not to lie, but how many times have you lied today? Mhmm.

Probably not many, to be honest. I can't think of one off of the top of my head, except when I told this rather ugly girl that her shirt looked nice because she seemed a little sad, but that's the good kind of lie. Regardless, what does lying have to do with this exactly? I don't think I mentioned it once in my post... So your point is basically invalid.

[Weeping_Angel]

Um, well the whole point of marrying when you are religious is to have children. Seriously. No matter what anyone says, that is what is is. So basically getting married when you are gay, is wrong in the eyes of any religious bible.

[Mirage]

This is slightly confusing. Doesn't it say something about laying with another man? I don't know at this point. If someone could explain it to me that would be pretty cool. :)

[Iris]

The same book you're quoting from says this as well:


Have you given a tenth of your belongings to the LORD? Why haven't you? Go repent yourself for you have sinned!

It also says:

Think you should just start wandering around naked. Because there's hardly any clothes nowadays that are made of only one material. Repent yourself for you have sinned!

A few verses underneath:

Are you shaving already? FYI, you're committing an abomination and will go to hell. Repent yourself for you have sinned!


For the record, Orthodox Jews actually do give a tenth of their earnings (called maaser), and do make sure not to wear a garment made of the materials wool and linen (called shatnez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatnez)). Orthodox Jewish men don't cut off their sideburns, ever (called peyos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyos)), and after lots of debating, shaving was allowed by the Rabbis, but many many men won't shave (at the most, trim), and there are virtually no Orthodox Rabbis without a beard. In this case, a man fucking another man is still very much a sin.

But I agree with others that it's a antiquated and meaningless law, and it should not define any of your relationships.

[Can'tHelpIt]

Great I kinda don't care if it's a sin or not because I do what I want!

[XxAssasiNxX]

There are no sins or whatever the hell happens. there is no god the bible was writen by some crazy man i bet or something lke that get over it

[Weeping_Angel]

There are no sins or whatever the hell happens. there is no god the bible was writen by some crazy man i bet or something lke that get over it

I Hope you realize that hell is a Christian term.

[Abigballofdust]

I Hope you realize that hell is a Christian term.

'The hell', 'what the hell', 'hell no', etc... are phrases completely accepted in the active English colloquial speech.
It's like saying 'God forbid it' or 'God damn it'; it has little to do with religion and mocking an atheist because he uses them is as bad as an argument as saying atheists are evil because Stalin was an atheist.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

There are no sins or whatever the hell happens. there is no god the bible was writen by some crazy man i bet or something lke that get over it

I don't believe in God either. I was able to add something constructive to this argument by debating under the theoretical terms that everything in the bible is true. Doesn't mean I believe it.

[huginnmuninn]

I Hope you realize that hell is a Christian term.

the word "hell" or the concept of hell? because on both accounts im going to have to say no you're wrong. dont feel like talking about both so just choose 1 so i can prove you wrong

[Church]

First an foremost I am not religious and not a Christian but this is what my family bible says about homosexuality
'If a man lies with a man as he does a woman, they have both done an abomination, they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is on their hands." Leviticus 20:13. Doesn't sound like God likes it very much