Row in America over gay characters in EA video games

[Lights]

A row has broken out in America over a computer games company including gay characters in its storylines.

Electronic Arts is being criticised by Christian campaign groups who say it is setting a bad example for young people.

Over the last few years EA has introduced gay characters, giving the option to flirt, kiss and even go for a drink in a virtual gay bar.

It's thought several thousand complaints have been received but EA says it has done nothing wrong.

The company has reportedly described the complaints as "political harassment" and said the 'gay' content is only an customisable option, not a mandatory part of the game.

Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars: The Old Republic are two high profile games that are being criticised.

What the Christian campaigners are arguing:
The Florida Family Association, a US Christian campaign group, is encouraging people to contact EA and Lucasfilm to protest.

It says there are no gay characters in the Star Wars films and describes the inclusion of LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) elements as "propaganda".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/17661888

I can't believe shit like this still happens. The Florida Family Association are an embarrassment to Christianity, as well as anyone else who protests alongside them.

[Truth]

Oh man, fucking Christianity and everything that it values is ridiculous. Who cares if there's gay people in a storyline? Skip the story and play the game!

[StoppingTime]

Oh man, fucking Christianity and everything that it values is ridiculous. Who cares if there's gay people in a storyline? Skip the story and play the game!

That isn't true. I'm not Christian, but don't hate a religion because some people still live in the past. There are plenty of Christians who believe its fine to be LGBT, which is how it should be.

[Lights]

There are plenty of Christians who believe its fine to be LGBT, which is how it should be.

This was precisely my reasoning behind not slagging Christianity as a whole. Different denominations often believe different things when it comes to controversial matters like homosexuality.

I heard something about this story on the radio, and they interviewed this woman who claimed gays were being shoved in people's faces enough on TV, so putting them in games too was a step too far, and she didn't want her children being 'influenced'. http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

[Truth]

That isn't true. I'm not Christian, but don't hate a religion because some people still live in the past. There are plenty of Christians who believe its fine to be LGBT, which is how it should be. It's completely true, sorry to say. Just because today many christians completely deny that the bible says anything negative and only follows the good parts of the book, ignoring about 50% of the book in the process, does not change the actual values of the christian religion. The religion still values discrimination, hate, slavery, war, and animal sacrifice inside of the Bible. Just because you choose to interpet it differently as time changes to improve the legitimacy of the bible, doesn't change that some people will stick to the negatives aswell. :yes:

This was precisely my reasoning behind not slagging Christianity as a whole. Different denominations often believe different things when it comes to controversial matters like homosexuality.

I heard something about this story on the radio, and they interviewed this woman who claimed gays were being shoved in people's faces enough on TV, so putting them in games too was a step too far, and she didn't want her children being 'influenced'. image (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif) The bible can be interpreted in many manners, but as I said to the other person, it all still values very key things.

[StoppingTime]

It's completely true, sorry to say. Just because today many christians completely deny that the bible says anything negative and only follows the good parts of the book, ignoring about 50% of the book in the process, does not change the actual values of the christian religion. The religion still values discrimination, hate, slavery, war, and animal sacrifice inside of the Bible. Just because you choose to interpet it differently as time changes to improve the legitimacy of the bible, doesn't change that some people will stick to the negatives aswell. :yes:

The bible can be interpreted in many manners, but as I said to the other person, it all still values very key things.

Just because those things were written, doesn't mean that all people of that religion are going to follow them.
If it says not to be gay in the Bible, do you think that automatically programs every mind of every Christian to automatically deny LGBT rights? Because that isn't true.
You can't say that a "value of the Christian religion" today is to be anti-LGBT, because it isn't.
And true, some do follow that, but it doesn't mean that's all Christianity is. You can't judge people based on a few negative facts like that, and then reflect it upon an entire religion.

[Truth]

Just because those things were written, doesn't mean that all people of that religion are going to follow them.
If it says not to be gay in the Bible, do you think that automatically programs every mind of every Christian to automatically deny LGBT rights? Because that isn't true.
You can't say that a "value of the Christian religion" today is to be anti-LGBT, because it isn't.
And true, some do follow that, but it doesn't mean that's all Christianity is. You can't judge people based on a few negative facts like that, and then reflect it upon an entire religion. Then you are not following the religion you claim to follow, you've created your own version of that religion and follow it. It cannot be legitimately called Christian, if it does not follow the values in the Christian bible.

If you read a story about a 20 year old man who goes to a movie theatre, buys popcorn, and watches a movie... then decide that it was a story about a 13 year old girl who goes to a movie theatre, buys pop, and meets with her friends to go shopping - you're not really talking about the same thing anymore are we? (Horrible example I know, but it gets my point across)

[StoppingTime]

Then you are not following the religion you claim to follow, you've created your own version of that religion and follow it. It cannot be legitimately called Christian, if it does not follow the values in the Christian bible.

If you read a story about a 20 year old man who goes to a movie theatre, buys popcorn, and watches a movie... then decide that it was a story about a 13 year old girl who goes to a movie theatre, buys pop, and meets with her friends to go shopping - you're not really talking about the same thing anymore are we? (Horrible example I know, but it gets my point across)

I am not seeing the example, but if what you are saying was true, nobody would follow any religion.
Do you think that everyone follows every law written about their religion?

[TheMatrix]

General note: There is always a row in America about anything related to homosexuality.

If you don't like it, don't buy it and/or don't let your kids play it. Simple as.

[Gothicdeer]

It's so over analyzed...I'm a straight die hard Christian and I pay no attention to the sexuality of the characters...and I hate how christains attack gays and how the atheists attack Christians...I'm saying they all do but its whats goin on in our nation

[Truth]

I am not seeing the example, but if what you are saying was true, nobody would follow any religion.
Do you think that everyone follows every law written about their religion? As I said, you're not really following a religion if you don't adhere to all of it's rules and values. You're just pretending to. Religions are followed because humans need an answer, and because they aren't advanced enough to find the answer, they make up the ideas of a god.

[Gothicdeer]

As I said, you're not really following a religion if you don't adhere to all of it's rules and values. You're just pretending to. Religions are followed because humans need an answer, and because they aren't advanced enough to find the answer, they make up the ideas of a god.

Answers? cause we need answers!?! I don't believe in God cause I need an ANSWER!!! nobody follows all laws and rules THAT'S HUMAN NATURE!!!_

[StoppingTime]

As I said, you're not really following a religion if you don't adhere to all of it's rules and values. You're just pretending to. Religions are followed because humans need an answer, and because they aren't advanced enough to find the answer, they make up the ideas of a god.

You ar basically saying nobody really follows the religion they claim because they don't follow every law in that religion.

[Truth]

You ar basically saying nobody really follows the religion they claim because they don't follow every law in that religion. That is exactly what I am saying. You can't pick and choose which of god's sayings you want to listen to. Just like when coding a webpage, I can't leave out the tags, because then it will just give me an error.

Do you understand?

[Gothicdeer]

Like I said its human nature...NO ONE follows ALL rules

[Carlyle]

Why is it some people can't leave things the way they are?? If its not mandatory, they aren't being affected by it..

[colz]

Dumb, very narrow minded people... I suppose they hate the sims as well then XP I say we all make 'gay' sims videos and upload them on Youtube!!!lol

[StoppingTime]

That is exactly what I am saying. You can't pick and choose which of god's sayings you want to listen to. Just like when coding a webpage, I can't leave out the tags, because then it will just give me an error.

Do you understand?

So you are saying that nobody actually follows religion. :yeah::yeah::yeah:


Seriously though, do you think it can never be changed? I am not necessarily saying actually changing the Bible, but opinions which cause the people to change.

For example, I'm Jewish. There are still Jews who believe homosexuality is wrong, because it says so in the Bible.
Then, you have Orthodox Rabbis saying that since your sexuality is genetic, then it is perfectly OK to be LGBT.

[Jupiter]

It's completely true, sorry to say. Just because today many christians completely deny that the bible says anything negative and only follows the good parts of the book, ignoring about 50% of the book in the process, does not change the actual values of the christian religion. The religion still values discrimination, hate, slavery, war, and animal sacrifice inside of the Bible. Just because you choose to interpet it differently as time changes to improve the legitimacy of the bible, doesn't change that some people will stick to the negatives aswell. :yes:

The bible can be interpreted in many manners, but as I said to the other person, it all still values very key things.

first of all, wow.

what the fuck did i just read? you just basically bashed christians as a whole, saying that most of the people in my religion are fucked up. please realize that i am a christian, i am bisexual, and i am prochoice. on just about everything. i do not believe in slavery, lol, SLAVERY? who in the right mind thinks that slavery is ok? in fact, in history class, when the second great awakening happened, people started realizing that it was wrong. i'm not saying that jesus stepped in and was all "YO! NO SLAVERY!" but i think it might have changed a lot of minds on this issue. i do not believe that the christians like war. in fact, who likes war? i believe in defending ourselves. it's bogus to think that god would support people going in and shooting a bunch of people who are not even worth fighting! animal sacrifice? have you READ outside of the OT? animal sacrifice is mostly for the jewish religion, and i have never (purposefully) killed an animal and i HAVE NEVER took the blood and spread it over my doorstep or whatever. a lot of the people who are talking about the gays and being unfair are for the most part older. once the newer generation sweeps in, our beliefs change. yes, the bible does "value" things. but saying that it values slavery is absurd.


and on to more, i don't follow christianity because i sin. i'm not even going to continue with this. goodbye.

oh, op, it doesn't hurt anyone. i don't see what everyone is all upset about.

[Truth]

first of all, wow.

what the fuck did i just read? you just basically bashed christians as a whole, saying that most of the people in my religion are fucked up. please realize that i am a christian, i am bisexual, and i am prochoice. on just about everything. i do not believe in slavery, lol, SLAVERY? who in the right mind thinks that slavery is ok? in fact, in history class, when the second great awakening happened, people started realizing that it was wrong. i'm not saying that jesus stepped in and was all "YO! NO SLAVERY!" but i think it might have changed a lot of minds on this issue. i do not believe that the christians like war. in fact, who likes war? i believe in defending ourselves. it's bogus to think that god would support people going in and shooting a bunch of people who are not even worth fighting! animal sacrifice? have you READ outside of the OT? animal sacrifice is mostly for the jewish religion, and i have never (purposefully) killed an animal and i HAVE NEVER took the blood and spread it over my doorstep or whatever. a lot of the people who are talking about the gays and being unfair are for the most part older. once the newer generation sweeps in, our beliefs change. yes, the bible does "value" things. but saying that it values slavery is absurd.


and on to more, i don't follow christianity because i sin. i'm not even going to continue with this. goodbye.

oh, op, it doesn't hurt anyone. i don't see what everyone is all upset about. Who believes slavery is awesome? Jesus frickin' Christ, ladies and gentleman.


" Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)"

I can get you some more passages showing the bible promoting animal and human sacrifice, murder, etc... I know you will ignore this entire post to preserve your pride in the chirstian religion, it's just how religion works. Don't like something your book says? Ignore it.

[StoppingTime]

took the blood and spread it over my doorstep or

That was done during the Exodus.

Anyway, like Eric said, not all Christians, nor Jews, or any religion for that matter, believe everything that the Bible says, and they don't need to. They don't become an "Ex-Jew" or "Ec-Christian" just because they don't follow a law, which is not followed just by the words in the Bible, it also goes on interpretations by scholars and commentators.


Edit:
Once again, of course, people aren't going to have slaves. The times have changed, so have the rules. That doesn't mean you aren't a Christian anymore.

[Truth]

That was done during the Exodus.

Anyway, like Eric said, not all Christians, nor Jews, or any religion for that matter, believe everything that the Bible says, and they don't need to. They don't become an "Ex-Jew" or "Ec-Christian" just because they don't follow a law, which is not followed just by the words in the Bible, it also goes on interpretations by scholars and commentators.


Edit:
Once again, of course, people aren't going to have slaves. The times have changed, so have the rules. That doesn't mean you aren't a Christian anymore. Read my post. You completely ignored it, as I said you would.

Jesus Christ and your God promote slavery. They believe virgins should be taken from the villages you plunder, and spread among the men like objects.

Just because times changed does not change your God's values, you simply understand how horrible his values are, forge your own, and pretend you follow god's will. It's no different, people will always hate gays aslong as religion tells them to! It's not going to change with time, sadly.

[StoppingTime]

I don't even know why I'm arguing with an atheist on this, because you;ll just give me the same response, but whatever.

People during those times thought it was fine to own slaves. They thought gays shouldn't be married. The Bible was written during that time. Mind you, the Bible wasn't written as a closed book. It was written for all times.
Ideas are expounded, and changed. You are allowed to not follow rules that are immoral, and have no place in society today. When (keep in mind, Jew here) Messiah comes, there won't be any slaves again. Gays will be married.
Why?
Because times have changed, and how we live has, and that doesn't make us not religious.

[Truth]

I don't even know why I'm arguing with an atheist on this, because you;ll just give me the same response, but whatever.

People during those times thought it was fine to own slaves. They thought gays shouldn't be married. The Bible was written during that time. Mind you, the Bible wasn't written as a closed book. It was written for all times.
Ideas are expounded, and changed. You are allowed to not follow rules that are immoral, and have no place in society today. When (keep in mind, Jew here) Messiah comes, there won't be any slaves again. Gays will be married.
Why?
Because times have changed, and how we live has, and that doesn't make us not religious. God thought it was okay to own slaves back then. He tells you to, and he tells you to plunder villages. As I said, even as time changes, god does not! That means he will still have these same values, but you no longer value the same thing as your god because you believe it is abominable. When god comes again, everyone except the christians will be slaves in pain forever, gays will burn in hell forever (quote from the bible), etc...

You refuse to believe me, yet your own book tells you this. Typical christian, no different than the people objecting to the gays in games.

[StoppingTime]

God thought it was okay to own slaves back then. He tells you to, and he tells you to plunder villages. As I said, even as time changes, god does not! That means he will still have these same values, but you no longer value the same thing as your god because you believe it is abominable. When god comes again, everyone except the christians will be slaves in pain forever, gays will burn in hell forever (quote from the bible), etc...

You refuse to believe me, yet your own book tells you this. Typical christian, no different than the people objecting to the gays in games.

I'm Jewish, I've mentioned that...
Regardless, why do you not think God changes as well? He did what was appropriate for the times. This is a new time, and gays won't be banished to hell, there won't be slaves. As time changes, God does as well. He didn't tell the people of that time, "By the way, in a couple thousand years, these laws will seem immoral..."

Think of it this way. Imagine the Bible saying there could be no slaves, and no gay marriage. This would be absurd to the people of that time, and they would be doing exactly what we are, appropriately changing their lifestyles to fit the times. But it was written in that time. So it doesn't say that.

[Truth]

I'm Jewish, I've mentioned that...
Regardless, why do you not think God changes as well? He did what was appropriate for the times. This is a new time, and gays won't be banished to hell, there won't be slaves. As time changes, God does as well. He didn't tell the people of that time, "By the way, in a couple thousand years, these laws will seem immoral..."

Think of it this way. Imagine the Bible saying there could be no slaves, and no gay marriage. This would be absurd to the people of that time, and they would be doing exactly what we are, appropriately changing their lifestyles to fit the times. But it was written in that time. So it doesn't say that. Why? Because god is omniscient and omnipotent according to the bible. That means he knew everything that would happen, ever. That means he had a complete understanding of the future yet still supported slavery. If he knows everything what is there for him to learn to change his mind ? Nothing at all.

You have no argument, it is a moot point. In fact the last half of your point is just ridiculous...

[StoppingTime]

Why? Because god is omniscient and omnipotent according to the bible. That means he knew everything that would happen, ever. That means he had a complete understanding of the future yet still supported slavery. If he knows everything what is there for him to learn to change his mind ? Nothing at all.

You have no argument, it is a moot point. In fact the last half of your point is just ridiculous...

Yes, because it was appropriate for the time. God gives us free will. He knew there would be slaves, and in the future, there wouldn't. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

But believe whatever you want, I really don't care. I don't want to preach, just arguing points.

[Truth]

Yes, because it was appropriate for the time. God gives us free will. He knew there would be slaves, and in the future, there wouldn't. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

But believe whatever you want, I really don't care. I don't want to preach, just arguing points. You are ignoring facts.

[Gothicdeer]

Facts and faith are 2 different things...Idk why ypu can't have an ppen mind rather then test our belief

[PerpetualImperfexion]

the Christians can complain if they want. They have the right to free speech, just as EA does. If a large majority of their consumers are extreme Christians like these and they stop selling games, well they'll realize they fucked up and change it. I honestly don't understand why this is in the news. Let me know when the government is forcing the inclusion or disclusion of gay characters and I'll actually give a shit or two. In the mean time people should really realize the important shit that's happening in the news.

Facts and faith are 2 different things...Idk why ypu can't have an ppen mind rather then test our belief

Gratz you understand a key point of faith: You often have to go up against facts that are constantly proven right**. Does this idea settle wrong with anyone else?

Oh and btw I noticed up above how people are arguing about Christianity's views on gays. Lemme just say one thing: According to the bible, people who follow it are NOT supposed to argue as to who is or who is not going to heaven. That is for God to decide not man. Oh and just to let you know I am 100% atheist, just thought I'd throw that in there to quiet things down a bit.

[Gothicdeer]

How about we end this discussion?

[Rayquaza]

I think my eyes just read one of the worst reports ever.

This is an outrage. Seriously. To those American people against this, you need to grow some fucking balls and stop being such douchebags, I mean the fact that such a vast minority of gay people appear on TV isn't bad enough, now we've got christians rowing over gay people in games? Bullshit. Isn't god Omnibenevolent, you stupid idiots? Or is that just some biased piece of crap you'll throw in my face. Gay people have just the same rights as straight people, let's keep it that way.

[Truth]

Facts and faith are 2 different things...Idk why ypu can't have an ppen mind rather then test our belief I am having an open mind. I made a theoretical situation where god was real. 2000 years ago, he knew everything, ever. He was omniscient, there's nothing he does not know. Right? That is how your god is described?

Then how could he have made a mistake? He supports slavery, murder, theft, rape, etc... while having a complete understanding of the universe... that means he is a horrible being, whether or not you can accept the fact isn't upto me.

[StoppingTime]

the Christians can complain if they want. They have the right to free speech, just as EA does. If a large majority of their consumers are extreme Christians like these and they stop selling games, well they'll realize they fucked up and change it. I honestly don't understand why this is in the news. Let me know when the government is forcing the inclusion or disclusion of gay characters and I'll actually give a shit or two. In the mean time people should really realize the important shit that's happening in the news.



Gratz you understand a key point of faith: You often have to go up against facts that are constantly proven right**. Does this idea settle wrong with anyone else?

Oh and btw I noticed up above how people are arguing about Christianity's views on gays. Lemme just say one thing: According to the bible, people who follow it are NOT supposed to argue as to who is or who is not going to heaven. That is for God to decide not man. Oh and just to let you know I am 100% atheist, just thought I'd throw that in there to quiet things down a bit.

Best post in the thread, thank you. I really don't care what anyone believes, but to say that I'm always wrong because I can't "show" my beliefs, I don't get it.

[embers]

Stop the off-topic meandering. This topic doesn't serve as a Christian bashfest, nor does it serve as a place to argue. If the argument doesn't end now I will delete the posts and go straight to infractions.

[Sugaree]

Oh man, fucking Christianity and everything that it values is ridiculous. Who cares if there's gay people in a storyline? Skip the story and play the game!

It's completely true, sorry to say. Just because today many christians completely deny that the bible says anything negative and only follows the good parts of the book, ignoring about 50% of the book in the process, does not change the actual values of the christian religion. The religion still values discrimination, hate, slavery, war, and animal sacrifice inside of the Bible. Just because you choose to interpet it differently as time changes to improve the legitimacy of the bible, doesn't change that some people will stick to the negatives aswell.

Then you are not following the religion you claim to follow, you've created your own version of that religion and follow it. It cannot be legitimately called Christian, if it does not follow the values in the Christian bible.

As I said, you're not really following a religion if you don't adhere to all of it's rules and values. You're just pretending to. Religions are followed because humans need an answer, and because they aren't advanced enough to find the answer, they make up the ideas of a god.

You are ignoring facts.

I have never seen a more militant and hard headed atheist on this forum. And that's saying something, because a lot of people here are hard headed. You're making improper comparisons between the Old and New Testaments, which, even by my standards as an agnostic, is way too fucked up to be considered logical. Seriously, is this all you do every day?

The Old Testament doesn't even resemble what true Christian values are. The reason a Redeemer was sent by God, according to Christian scholars, was to change the Jewish religion. The Old Testament? Yeah, that's the history of Judaism. Christianity's roots are in Judaism, but other than that, it's a completely different religion. Things like animal sacrifice and slavery were common practices of the time, thus it was all integrated with religion. Animal sacrifice became a way of thanking God or celebrating religious occasions. Christians never condoned animal sacrifice, and from what I've read in the New Testament, the "sacrifices" were all symbolic, not literal blood sacrifices.

From your posts in this thread, and other threads with even a mere MENTION of Christianity, you want people to change their beliefs but also follow each and every law their religion dictates. How the hell does this make sense to you? You can't just change your beliefs but still follow the rules of your religion. It's a hypocritical action and should never be condoned. The examples you provide of Christians bashing LGBT and other groups are from the extremists. In response, instead of condemning those extremists who cause the actual problem, you apply it to all of Christianity. I can just as well say that all atheists are selfish and uncaring individuals. Oh, I've only seen it in a few atheists, but those few obviously represent the entire delegation.

I am having an open mind.

So does "open mind", to you, mean to do the same thing that you condemn others for doing? You bash Christians just as bad as some Christians bash atheists. You're not furthering your own cause, just like the extremist Christians aren't furthering their own cause. Having an "open mind" is not going out of your way and willfully spouting off about how evil Christianity is.

No, the Christian religion is not the one true religion. Not in my belief, it's not. That goes for many others also. But I do believe that the core values of Christianity, which began with the New Testament, are not to support hate and bigotry. The core values of Christianity include having love for all people of all faiths (including the faithless), allowing them to live their own life as they see fit, being a good Samaritan to those who need help. What you perceive as Christianity is an incredibly old, out dated form of tribal religion. Since then, Christianity has evolved to something better, but that doesn't mean extremists don't run around spouting Old Testament lies.

On the topic of this thread: EA has the right to free speech and I support their choice to allow LGBT options in their games. It's their decision and I have nothing against it. Once again, there's an incredibly unnoticeable minority that is complaining and making the more noise than the majority.

[Truth]

I have never seen a more militant and hard headed atheist on this forum. And that's saying something, because a lot of people here are hard headed. You're making improper comparisons between the Old and New Testaments, which, even by my standards as an agnostic, is way too fucked up to be considered logical. Seriously, is this all you do every day?

The Old Testament doesn't even resemble what true Christian values are. The reason a Redeemer was sent by God, according to Christian scholars, was to change the Jewish religion. The Old Testament? Yeah, that's the history of Judaism. Christianity's roots are in Judaism, but other than that, it's a completely different religion. Things like animal sacrifice and slavery were common practices of the time, thus it was all integrated with religion. Animal sacrifice became a way of thanking God or celebrating religious occasions. Christians never condoned animal sacrifice, and from what I've read in the New Testament, the "sacrifices" were all symbolic, not literal blood sacrifices.

From your posts in this thread, and other threads with even a mere MENTION of Christianity, you want people to change their beliefs but also follow each and every law their religion dictates. How the hell does this make sense to you? You can't just change your beliefs but still follow the rules of your religion. It's a hypocritical action and should never be condoned. The examples you provide of Christians bashing LGBT and other groups are from the extremists. In response, instead of condemning those extremists who cause the actual problem, you apply it to all of Christianity. I can just as well say that all atheists are selfish and uncaring individuals. Oh, I've only seen it in a few atheists, but those few obviously represent the entire delegation.



So does "open mind", to you, mean to do the same thing that you condemn others for doing? You bash Christians just as bad as some Christians bash atheists. You're not furthering your own cause, just like the extremist Christians aren't furthering their own cause. Having an "open mind" is not going out of your way and willfully spouting off about how evil Christianity is.

No, the Christian religion is not the one true religion. Not in my belief, it's not. That goes for many others also. But I do believe that the core values of Christianity, which began with the New Testament, are not to support hate and bigotry. The core values of Christianity include having love for all people of all faiths (including the faithless), allowing them to live their own life as they see fit, being a good Samaritan to those who need help. What you perceive as Christianity is an incredibly old, out dated form of tribal religion. Since then, Christianity has evolved to something better, but that doesn't mean extremists don't run around spouting Old Testament lies.

On the topic of this thread: EA has the right to free speech and I support their choice to allow LGBT options in their games. It's their decision and I have nothing against it. Once again, there's an incredibly unnoticeable minority that is complaining and making the more noise than the majority. I'd point out every single flaw in your argument if I wasn't instructed by embers not to.

The Christian god said many things. He said you should hate gays, enslave foreigners, and take virgins from neighbouring cities with force. To me, if you find your own god's actions and values abominable - and these same values are what he wrote down in the bible... you have two choices. A) Half-heartedly follow the Christian religion, B) Have the same values as your god.

A majority of christians decide to half-heartedly follow the religion, only taking certain sections and passages literally, ignoring the rest for their own happiness. But others, like the extremists denying EA the usage of gay characters, follow the values of the bible. No matter what you say, these people are the ones truly following the Christian religion, not arguing against god's will in any manner.

I do not agree with any of the values or arguments made by the extremists like those in this article, but they do have the excuse of "the bible told me to", so I prefer blaming the bible itself over the fools who believe it. That is the main reason I've had this argument, because these people have a right to hate and frown upon gay marriage, because of what the bible says. Does that mean the bible's right? Definitely not... :yawn:

[embers]

You can't follow a simple instruction, can you? This thread is getting out of hand. I had only just told you to drop this line of discussion and you continued.

:locked: