The devil

[Texas warrior]

After thinking for a long, long time I have come to the conclueshion that the christian Devil is free thought and individuality. If you look at the story of Adam and Eve, it not hard to have the same idea as me.

[FojeJC]

Okay, so you're telling me that the devil is free thought and individuality?
Wrong...
The devil is sin, in the story of Adam and Eve they go against god and eat an apple, therefore they sinned. The devil isn't even sin anyway, he's more of a sin proactive being (lol). If the devil was free thought and individuality we'd be reading of stones, or actually religious people would be doing that (religion was also a big power in the first civilizations).

And please, get better at your English grammar.

[Korashk]

Of course that's what the Bible says, but I'd say that the Bible is a bit biased when it comes to the Devil.

[Erasmus]

Okay, so you're telling me that the devil is free thought and individuality?
Wrong...
The devil is sin, in the story of Adam and Eve they go against god and eat an apple, therefore they sinned. The devil isn't even sin anyway, he's more of a sin proactive being (lol). If the devil was free thought and individuality we'd be reading of stones, or actually religious people would be doing that (religion was also a big power in the first civilizations).

And please, get better at your English grammar.

I agree with everything you said. (especially the last part!)

[Short Circuit]

What about us that don't believ in relegion? If there is no god, then there can be no devil!

[kenoloor]

What about us that don't believ in relegion? If there is no god, then there can be no devil!

The question isn't whether or not you believe, it's what you think "the devil" represents. At least that's how I interpreted it; Tex, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Genghis Khan]

After thinking for a long, long time I have come to the conclueshion that the christian Devil is free thought and individuality. If you look at the story of Adam and Eve, it not hard to have the same idea as me.

That pretty much sums up my interpretation of the devil in the Abrahamic trilogy, which is why I'm pro-satan.

[Can'tHelpIt]

The devil I don't believe in?

[Gothicdeer]

For every who doesnt have the christian belief how about you answer from a literature point of view?

[Sugaree]

For every who doesnt have the christian belief how about you answer from a literature point of view?

A literature point of view? Do you mean literal?

[Gothicdeer]

A literature point of view? Do you mean literal?

No, literature...like fiction

[JackShephard]

The Christian devil according to the bible was once a powerful angel of music named Lucifer. The bible says that he deceived a third of Gods angels into rebelling agains God. For this, he cast them out and now reside in the physical world. His only goal according to the bible is to drag as many people down to hell with him as possible. He would want to corrupt as many people as possible.

I see your reasoning for thinking that he is actually free thinking. It makes sense. Religious leaders often use tools like manipulation to keep their followers ignorant. This is because so many people might turn away if they where to think on their own, not what someone else tells them to think. As a Christian myself, I have a very big problem with organized religion. No matter what religion it is, I don't believe in keeping people ignorant so you can keep them under control. My views on God may seem very atypical to some and in fact, I have even been accused of being a "false Christian."

[Texas warrior]

The question isn't whether or not you believe, it's what you think "the devil" represents. At least that's how I interpreted it; Tex, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You are right, the question is not do you believe in the devil. The question is, is the christian devil, as portrayed in the bible and the church, free thought and individuality.

[Truth]

The devil is the power to believe that you exist for a reason other than god, which is why it's frowned upon in the bible. It's synonymous with Free thought and Individuality, so I will agree.

[shatter..]

I believe the Christian devil is free thought and individuality. I think this because in the Adam and Eve story God commanded them not to eat from the tree. The devil told them to go and eat the fruit of the tree. Eve did and they were banished from the garden. They ate from the tree of knowledge. God was afraid that when humans learned of good and evil they could over power him. They "sinned". This is sort of a metaphor for "knowledge comes with power, which is a heavy burden and responsibility." The devil was leading them on the right road. God did not want Adam and Eve to gain knowledge.

[Efflorescence]

The devil I don't believe in?

If I'm not mistaken, LaVeyan satanists do not worship the devil but they worship what it represents. For them, it is a symbol of earthly values and power inside every human being. It's called Atheistic satanism.

[Can'tHelpIt]

If I'm not mistaken, LaVeyan satanists do not worship the devil but they worship what it represents. For them, it is a symbol of earthly values and power inside every human being. It's called Atheistic satanism.

Are you trying to say that bc I'm atheist I worship "the devil" I believe in science. I believe in facts.

[kenoloor]

Are you trying to say that bc I'm atheist I worship "the devil" I believe in science. I believe in facts.

Oh come off it. She was pointing out that this thread isn't based upon a belief or disbelief in "the devil," like how many Satanists (specifically atheistic Satanists) do not worship "the devil," proper. You completely missed the point of this thread even after I clarified the OP's intent earlier in this thread, which people continue to ignore.

[Can'tHelpIt]

Oh come off it. She was pointing out that this thread isn't based upon a belief or disbelief in "the devil," like how many Satanists (specifically atheistic Satanists) do not worship "the devil," proper. You completely missed the point of this thread even after I clarified the OP's intent earlier in this thread, which people continue to ignore.

Sorry I now understand

Well then I have no point on this thread sorry :P

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Well if you don't believe in the cartoon character side of this you could probably blame "sin" on free thought and individuality. I mean if we were all mindless zombies who never wanted to do anything fun or original I highly doubt we would have as many problems as we do today. On the other hand with out these two attributes life would be pretty boring and the few good things humanity has done would never have been done. If you do believe in the cartoon character side of things you have to admit that it might have been a lapse in judgement when God gave us free will. On the other hand, for the same reasons above, if I were a christian I would be thankful for that fault in judgement.

[Rage of the Menace]

I'm a Maronite Catholic (represent) and I'm a progressive creationist, and to add to that, I believe most of the Old Testament is Metaphorical, it was after all, the style of the jewish priests in Babylon.

Repin' Mystery Babylon, Mother of harlots and abominations.

[Mortal Coil]

The basis of Christianity is free will and thought.
I definitely don't think it is, but I'm not a Christian so I don't know as well as someone who is.

[Truth]

The basis of Christianity is free will and thought.
I definitely don't think it is, but I'm not a Christian so I don't know as well as someone who is. The basis of christianity might seem like free will and thought, but it's control and obedience.

[shatter..]

The basis of christianity might seem like free will and thought, but it's control and obedience.

Exactly what I thinking.

[Texas warrior]

I think that this thread needs a bump.

[Truth]

I think that this thread needs a bump. There was a conclusion already; the devil is free will and free thought.

God has no interest in letting you choose your own manner of living life.
There is only one way that god thinks is okay, and if you don't follow it, you go to hell.

[Smeagol]

I do not believe in the devil, but to me the devil symbolizes immoral behaviour.

[Truth]

I do not believe in the devil, but to me the devil symbolizes immoral behaviour. And what exactly is immoral? In the bible, eating the one apple god didn't want you to was immoral... which means, free will/freedom is immoral according to god.

So you agree that the devil is the representation of free will? Or?

[Genghis Khan]

Dude, the devil is pretty much that really bad diarrhoea I once had. Fuck.

[WickedWeekend]

And what exactly is immoral? In the bible, eating the one apple god didn't want you to was immoral... which means, free will/freedom is immoral according to god.

The eating of the fruit itself (who said it was an apple? Not the Bible.) was not immoral, but disobeying God by eating it was the sin. God only gave them one rule, and they broke it.

Back on track, I think Satan is the exact opposite of God, who is control and goodness. So, that makes Satan of chaos and evil. I don't think either of them represent free thought or individuality. The both have "cults", if you will, so they teach you to rely on the one you worship. (Satanism and Creationism)

[Weeping_Angel]

The eating of the fruit itself (who said it was an apple? Not the Bible.) was not immoral, but disobeying God by eating it was the sin. God only gave them one rule, and they broke it.

Back on track, I think Satan is the exact opposite of God, who is control and goodness. So, that makes Satan of chaos and evil. I don't think either of them represent free thought or individuality. The both have "cults", if you will, so they teach you to rely on the one you worship. (Satanism and Creationism)

But god isn't of control and goodness, since Satan has more power than god if he can make people sin.

And if you think about it, Satan is more powerful than god.

[FojeJC]

And if you think about, it all sounds like a big pile bullshit.

Also, god is more order than anything, so the devil would be chaos or discord. Though, I still follow my principle of the devil being a sin proactive being.

[kenoloor]

The both have "cults", if you will, so they teach you to rely on the one you worship. (Satanism and Creationism)

Satanism, in its most common form, is not the worship of Satan as a being. The majority of Satanists are Atheistic Satanists, meaning they do not believe in any sort of higher power, but still follow the philosophical system of Satanism. In this form of Satanism, "Satan" is used to represent earthly values and the like.

Actual worship of Satan as a higher power, with the inverted crosses and such, is incredibly rare, to the point of insignificance.

[boonsim]

Are you kidding me?

I didn't know communism was funded on such a holy background.

[WickedWeekend]

But god isn't of control and goodness, since Satan has more power than god if he can make people sin.

And if you think about it, Satan is more powerful than god.

He doesn't make people sin, but he tempts them. People give in. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

Satanism, in its most common form, is not the worship of Satan as a being. The majority of Satanists are Atheistic Satanists, meaning they do not believe in any sort of higher power, but still follow the philosophical system of Satanism. In this form of Satanism, "Satan" is used to represent earthly values and the like.

Actual worship of Satan as a higher power, with the inverted crosses and such, is incredibly rare, to the point of insignificance.

That's something I wasn't aware of.

[Truth]

He doesn't make people sin, but he tempts them. People give in. Therefore, your argument is invalid.



That's something I wasn't aware of. He tempts them to stop being controlled by god? So what? Then you agree with this thread?

If you don't agree the devil = freedom, then you are wording your argument horribly.

[JackShephard]

Satanism, in its most common form, is not the worship of Satan as a being. The majority of Satanists are Atheistic Satanists, meaning they do not believe in any sort of higher power, but still follow the philosophical system of Satanism. In this form of Satanism, "Satan" is used to represent earthly values and the like.

Actual worship of Satan as a higher power, with the inverted crosses and such, is incredibly rare, to the point of insignificance.

I believe that those particular satanists are also referred to neo-satanists. I think I've heard somewhere that Marilyn Manson belongs to that group.

Really, it's not that hard to be a satanist. One of the first things the book of the law (satanic bible) will tell you is to "Do as tho wilt." if your already doing that, then your halfway there. Lol

[Truth]

I believe that those particular satanists are also referred to neo-satanists. I think I've heard somewhere that Marilyn Manson belongs to that group.

Really, it's not that hard to be a satanist. One of the first things the book of the law (satanic bible) will tell you is to "Do as tho wilt." if your already doing that, then your halfway there. Lol In Satanism, you are the god. You control your life, you make your decisions, and you work your hardest to achieve what you want. You do not rely on some God to do it for you; you simply believe in your ability to do it alone.

Another reason why I believe satan represents freedom, is the satanic religion itself. The devil doesn't ask you to follow him, he tells you to do what you want because you know how to make yourself happy.

[Syvelocin]

Satan means "the opposer." While he is portrayed as this evil guy the opposite of God, wouldn't that be what they'd want you to think?

Because he was one who dared to challenge God. Of course he'd be the evil one according to the church! Because he could show you that there are better ideals that'll get you further than the ones they preach. There's a reason people are taught that all (magic word there) Satanists are to be the same as devil-worshippers, and make sacrifices and shit like that. Because the church doesn't want you to stray if you realize what you could accomplish with those views, or that you already hold many of them without even knowing it.

I know I always sympathize with the villain, but Satan? Definintely the guy I'd choose when representing all you said, and chiefly in my value system, doubting everything you're told to avoid self-deceit. (number four of the Satanic Sins! :P)

Satan and The God and Goddess in pagan religions, I have to say, are my favourite "deities", (quotes because I'm not a theistic Satanist) because they don't require blind worship and fear. Satan being the sort of example of how to lead your life, and my admiration for The God and Goddess comes from how mutual the relationship is between them and the witch. Give and take. It's very loving, and I don't see that from Christianity.

I believe that those particular satanists are also referred to neo-satanists. I think I've heard somewhere that Marilyn Manson belongs to that group.

For the sake of clearing it up, no. I do not believe he identifies as a Satanist. However, he was very good friends with Anton LaVey himself before he died, Manson wrote a forward for one of his books, he even made Manson a "Reverend" of the church. I think he holds similar beliefs but he has never said he was a Satanist. The most I've gotten was that "art is the only thing spiritual" or something to that extent, and that he shares beliefs with many different groups including Christianity (that interview was a VERY long time ago though, it should be noted. SMC or AC era. The first bit about art was a more recent one).

[johnnyd]

I definitely think that the devil could be construed as freedom or individuality depending on what scripture you look at. In general, however, I think the devil stands for the most base human emotions and desires, and part of his character is rebellion, which can be thought of as freedom. Especially in our day, where sin and the devil are systematically used to keep Christians in place, freedom seems to have been somewhat taken from Christians, but I don't think the devil was truly intended to stand for freedom. By the way, I'm an atheist from a very religious family, so I have some background on Christianity.

[plebble]

I don't believe in the devil's existence, so I don't know which one I vote for.