Is it possible to prove that anything is real?

[LuciferSam]

Over the past few years, I have been mulling over whether or not the existence of a reality is logically provable. So far, I have not found any ways to prove that anything around me is real. Although I would like to believe that it is, I have not been able to develop a logical argument to prove it. What do you think?

[Kacey]

Haha u little future Descates
"I think therefore I am" that's all ...lol you don't want to become a Neoplatonist

[ApresMidi]

I think therefore I am ... but I have no proof that you think.

Yeah. Scary isn't it.
Nothing we can do except hope.

[Zarakly]

Yeah, just like what if we don't really know what the Earth looks like, what if all the governments just agreed on the same pictures and has been trolling us for years?

[Stryker125]

What if you can breathe in space, but the government doesn't want us to escape?

hhaha just kidding. I guess you'll just have to take it up on faith.

[LuciferSam]

What if there is no such thing as space?

[Genghis Khan]

I really don't like these kinds of questions purely because there's no point in pondering about them. I mean, so what if we don't exist? We're still going to evolve and function according to what we know and what we can subjectively perceive as 'real'. So why even bother with this meaningless bullcrap?

[Korashk]

The principle of self-evidence is proof that things are real.

[Erasmus]

Why even debate this? There's no way we'll find the answer, and even if we're not real, what can we do about it?

[Kacey]

....once again don't become a Neoplatonist.....

[Sordid Saint]

I really like the way that people are saying "we", as if it involves them. What OP is saying, is there's no way in knowing whether ANYTHING exists, not just us. Meaning, OP's (yours, mine, anyones) "mind" is creating this whole thing as it goes along. It's creating the world, the people, planets, stars, moons, the whole universe is being created by this one person's mind. Now, this is tricky, and like people have said, it's pointless to even ponder on this, because there is no way of knowing currently whether this is true or not.

Also, why are YOU the one that is creating this whole experience? I'm pretty sure that anyone qualifies to create it. Unless I've created you, and you've posted this thread just because I've thought about this thought before, actually very recently before I saw this post.

Have you ever heard the saying, if you can imagine it, it's possible? Hmmmm. There's something to ponder about ;)

[Professional Russian]

I really dont know how to answer this but... this glass of tea im holding right now. It has to be real if i can drink it. if it can hold a liquid. Ive actually spent alot of time trying to answer this fo my self but i yet to have a way to prove it. other than what i just said

[Bath]

The concept of "real" is simply what the perceiver sees to be true. One thing may be "real" to one person but not to another because we all perceive things in our own way.

[LuciferSam]

I really dont know how to answer this but... this glass of tea im holding right now. It has to be real if i can drink it. if it can hold a liquid. Ive actually spent alot of time trying to answer this fo my self but i yet to have a way to prove it. other than what i just said

Not necessarily. Everything that we consider to be "real" is merely a collection of stimuli that our brain interprets. The heat from the tea, the way it looks, the way it feels, all are simply your brain's interpretation of signals. Who are we to say that those signals are actually of something that really exists?

[ImCoolBeans]

Not necessarily. Everything that we consider to be "real" is merely a collection of stimuli that our brain interprets. The heat from the tea, the way it looks, the way it feels, all are simply your brain's interpretation of signals. Who are we to say that those signals are actually of something that really exists?

Heat has scientific facts behind it. The feeling might be made in our brain, but that doesn't take away from any scientific facts.

I don't like these types of questions, I used to like them a little more when I'd get really stoned and sit around in deep thought, but now I realize that stoner philosophy is ridiculous for the most part.

[LuciferSam]

Heat has scientific facts behind it. The feeling might be made in our brain, but that doesn't take away from any scientific facts.



Science is based entirely on what we have learned from this world, which, as I have previously stated, may or may not be real.

I think therefore I am ... but I have no proof that you think.

I think you might. It's a little tricky to prove, but it is harder to disprove that there are mental functions occuring in your brain. We are taking in information and analyzing it, even if it isn't reality. It is kind of hard to deny that these processes are occuring. But again, everything that it interprets may be real and it may not, so it should really be "I think, therefore my mind exists in some capacity.", as everything external to it is a perception, none of which can be trusted to be true.

Don't post multiple times in a row, just use the edit button ~ ImCoolBeans

[Professional Russian]

Ok im lost. im probaly thinking way too hard on this. Ill check back later and se if i can draw any conclusions

[ImCoolBeans]

Science is based entirely on what we have learned from this world, which, as I have previously stated, may or may not be real.

Okay but you can apply that logic to anything. Thats like a child saying "okay but I'm one times better than you" to everything you say. You can chase it in circles forever, but that doesn't make it a valid point.

[StoppingTime]

There is no way to prove this argument, seeing as whatever you prove was found by something that could or could not be real; you can't know for sure.

[Dragon_Droppings]

I think therefore I am. End of discussion

[jackson94]

Throw a rock at a friend who's not looking.

[LuciferSam]

"I think therefore I am. End of discussion"
-Dragon_Droppings

(Forgot to hit "Quote" and submitted reply before realizing)

You think, therefore there is a mind that exists in some capacity that you identify as yourself. I hate to overanalyze things like this, but it's true. Everything is relative to experience, so while you can think and this proves the existence of your mind, everything else that you perceive about yourself, i.e. your appearence and physical characteristics, may or may not truly exist.

[Dragon_Droppings]

You think, therefore there is a mind that exists in some capacity that you identify as yourself.

Yes. If we weren't bound by time and space, we would all be in the same place and we would all be a dot. I think that we are all in a reality, but a reality only goes so far. I believe in Einstein's theory that time and space is captivated, and that if we were to travel around space, we would end up at the same point time, because space isn't endless. And if we were to step out of the balloon that is keeping us bound in space and time, we would just dissolve into the nothingness which therefore makes us real, but real can only go for a certain amount of time before the reality dissolves into nothing.

[LuciferSam]

Throw a rock at a friend who's not looking.

:confused: What does that have to do with this?

[LuciferSam]

Yes. If we weren't bound by time and space, we would all be in the same place and we would all be a dot. I think that we are all in a reality, but a reality only goes so far. I believe in Einstein's theory that time and space is captivated, and that if we were to travel around space, we would end up at the same point time, because space isn't endless. And if we were to step out of the balloon that is keeping us bound in space and time, we would just dissolve into the nothingness which therefore makes us real, but real can only go for a certain amount of time before the reality dissolves into nothing.

Assuming Einstein was a real person, and that he really did what we are told he did (again I apologize for over-analysis) he was analyzing the world he perceived around him and assumed to be real. So while this makes sense, it can only be correct if everything that he based his observations in was also real.

See? Even something as seemingly logical and provable as science is not necessarily true or correct for someone who is as irritatingly Socratic as I am.

Also, how do you know that space (assuming that it, too, exists) is not infinite? I am also convinced that time is an illusion. It is merely something invented by us humans to keep track of lengths of an existence. Therefore, every type of physics involving time is flawed, because, even if some people believe that it can be distorted, that is based in the assumption that time is a substance (if only an abstract one).

[Dragon_Droppings]

Assuming Einstein was a real person, and that he really did what we are told he did (again I apologize for over-analysis) he was analyzing the world he perceived around him and assumed to be real. So while this makes sense, it can only be correct if everything that he based his observations in was also real.

See? Even something as seemingly logical and provable as science is not necessarily true or correct for someone who is as irritatingly Socratic as I am.

Well I see your point of view, and even as my views contradict yours I can see how we are all imagining what we see, but tell me something. Then how come we all see the same things, something has to exist, and our minds certainly do exist, therefore bringing your whole theory down that we can't prove that anything exists.

[LuciferSam]

Why is it so impossible that we can all see the same things? What if we're living in a situation similar to the one in The Matrix trilogy? We all could be subjected to the same set of stimuli, which would explain why everything appears to be the same. Besides, that implies the existence of other people. How do I know that there are, in fact, others? What if I am the only one experiencing all of this, and I am only being told (or hallucinating) that there are other people experiencing the same thing?

[Dragon_Droppings]

Why is it so impossible that we can all see the same things? What if we're living in a situation similar to the one in The Matrix trilogy? We all could be subjected to the same set of stimuli, which would explain why everything appears to be the same. Besides, that implies the existence of other people. How do I know that there are, in fact, others? What if I am the only one experiencing all of this, and I am only being told (or hallucinating) that there are other people experiencing the same thing?

Well I hope you're religious, because the only thing that can pull you through now is faith in god

[LuciferSam]

Does Philosophical Taoist count? (I'm not any sort of Asian denomination, if that matters.) Besides, I don't mind the fact that reality is not provable. Things are what they are, and seeing as I am unable to escape the falsehood, assuming that my point of view is correct, I will just have to work around it.

This may seem to be kind of a jerk move only saying this now, but I actually hope that there is a reality, but due to lack of substantial proof, I am not willing to simply believe in it.

[Clawhammer]

One is only able to work with the concept of reality within the boundaries of reality. The thoughts with which you question reality are even called into question. Best not to worry about it and get on with life. As for myself, I would refute non-reality... (stomps on floor) ... thus.

[LuciferSam]

How do you know that the floor is real and not just a hallucination or a projected set of stimuli?

[Professional Russian]

How do you know that the floor is real and not just a hallucination or a projected set of stimuli?

It was a hallutionation i would fall through it

[LuciferSam]

Says who? That is your deffinition of a hallucination. And if your deffinition IS correct, then you failed to address my other option: a set of stimuli being projected into your brain: your senses tell you that the floor is there, what it looks like, what it feels like, what sound it makes when it is being stomped on, etc. How do you know whether or not those stimuli are being sent from something that really exists in front of you, or from another source that vastly different from your perception?

[Professional Russian]

Says who? That is your deffinition of a hallucination. And if your deffinition IS correct, then you failed to address my other option: a set of stimuli being projected into your brain: your senses tell you that the floor is there, what it looks like, what it feels like, what sound it makes when it is being stomped on, etc. How do you know whether or not those stimuli are being sent from something that really exists in front of you, or from another source that vastly different from your perception?

I dont. I personally think this thread is just gonna go and on and on about people thinking they're correct

[Thunduhbuhlt]

We see, hear, feel, and basically do everything from our brains. I see where you come from.
But if this is true, how do you explain how everybody sees the same thing? Let's say the Mona Lisa. Everyone that is not blind or color blind will see the same thing. That's really the only proof we have. We have scientific studies, religion, and a whole load of ideas, but none of that will ever prove that we aren't or are real. Dreams are not real, we are real...that's all that it is.

[embers]

Says who? That is your deffinition of a hallucination. And if your deffinition IS correct, then you failed to address my other option: a set of stimuli being projected into your brain: your senses tell you that the floor is there, what it looks like, what it feels like, what sound it makes when it is being stomped on, etc. How do you know whether or not those stimuli are being sent from something that really exists in front of you, or from another source that vastly different from your perception?

Does it matter? Holding the view that the world is a hallucination means absolutely nothing. The "hallucination" will still function whether or not it actually is a product of what you see. You have to live with it.

[FojeJC]

Well, what about this -
You live and you die, therefore we are real. Time, changes everything, that shows what we see happening must be real. If you bang your head on a wall you feel pain and you see a bruise or blood on the wall. But if what we perceive through our magnificent eyes is not actually there then... end of discussion.

[Sugaree]

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae217/Sigma66/1333342733268.jpg

>this thread

[LuciferSam]

We see, hear, feel, and basically do everything from our brains. I see where you come from.
But if this is true, how do you explain how everybody sees the same thing? Let's say the Mona Lisa. Everyone that is not blind or color blind will see the same thing. That's really the only proof we have. We have scientific studies, religion, and a whole load of ideas, but none of that will ever prove that we aren't or are real. Dreams are not real, we are real...

We could all easily experience the same thing if we were being exposed to the same stimuli. And the only evidence we have of death are perceptible signs, which cannot be trrusted. If the perceptions involved with death are representative of the state of our mind, then it only signifies that, upon what we call death, our mind moves on to a different state,again only proving the existence of our minds. All of this also depends on the existence of others. It is just as impossible to prove that minds other than mine actually exist.

Well, what about this -
You live and you die, therefore we are real. Time, changes everything, that shows what we see happening must be real. If you bang your head on a wall you feel pain and you see a bruise or blood on the wall. But if what we perceive through our magnificent eyes is not actually there then... end of discussion.

Pain is caused by stimuli, which, as I have stated, can be false.

posts merged. please don't double post, use the edit button. -embers

[Burn007]

all we know of....it can be just imagination,game or dream of a person in diffrent universe...nothing is true....

[JackShephard]

It really comes down to your definition of reality. What it "real?"

Is it something you can interpret with your five senses? If so, than anything you can physically touch or see or hear or taste or smell is real.

I don't exactly remember the quote, but I believe it was from the renascence era. It said something to the effect of, "How can we tell that this world is real. What if it's all an epic dream."

I don't really bother with such thoughts. There is no real way to know for sure. But in the mean time, let me focus on my life and my happiness. Because I believe that happiness is something that is real, even if it was in a dreamworld.

[khila]

it is not possible to truly prove anything as everyone will come up with some opposeing theory however for reality u dont u dont even know if ur own thought process is real proveing "i think therefore i am" wrong as guess what u could be implimented with an AI for all u know

[Silicate Wielder]

My mind works in a different way than most people. So I think differently than most people. The Existence of reality is more like a bunch of energy. as energy is used a lot in our world. To me when the universe was born there was literally nothing, not even that single atom as scientists believe. Instead over time energy built up, expanded, and concentrated. then when it hit a peak point. the energy began to build up at alarming speeds, like maybe 5 Trillion Megawatts worth of energy as every millisecond passed by. and it began to clump giving the illusion of matter existing. then when life came along, the energy was deeply concentrated at such a density that it began to act on its own and the simplest forms of that energy is perceived as the single celled organisms that scientists study today. multi-celled creatures are more like millions and millions of those clumps of energy being clumped together. So when we die healthy and naturally its just that all of the energy that kept us alive has been released. and when our mothers are pregnant with us, we are created by our mothers ability to siphon extra energy from the world and concentrate it when she is pregnant.
So in a way nothing is real, only perceived as being real by "us and all other intelligent life."
So even life does not exist, it is just a piece to a never-ending puzzle
Different things may look to be different to different life forms.
while you may see a tree as a giant brown wooden pole sticking out of what you perceive as the ground and has more brown poles sticking out of it that have green ovals sticking to it, to another person it may look like a giant red sphere with cubes stuck to it and on those cubes are millions of tiny pyramids. So we cannot assume that what we see looks the same to everyone else in our over imagined world.
This post on this website may not even exist as we may only be imagining everything we come across

We see, hear, feel, and basically do everything from our brains. I see where you come from.
But if this is true, how do you explain how everybody sees the same thing? Let's say the Mona Lisa. Everyone that is not blind or color blind will see the same thing. That's really the only proof we have. We have scientific studies, religion, and a whole load of ideas, but none of that will ever prove that we aren't or are real. Dreams are not real, we are real...that's all that it is.
If you were looking at what appeared to be the same tree your friend is looking at, to you the tree may look one way, but to your friend the tree may look a different way.
The only way I could theorize this was by forcing myself to think many many thoughts at one time and processing the similarities, that are perceived by me, of each thought.

[TBJohnston]

I think you should of stopped at the first post.

It doesn't matter if reality is logically provable or not, this right now is our own perception which we consider reality, questioning this or taking it any further just seems like pseudo-philosophical bullshit that isn't even worth contemplating. (In my own opinion.. of course.)

[Sugaree]

I remember my first bowl too, OP.

[JackShephard]

I remember my first bowl too, OP.

Lol this does sound like something I would think about when I was using.

[Dreaming Cannibal]

This question is unanswerable. Some will say "Cogito ergo sum" others will say senses give you all information and proof needed. The answer it's something you device personally, or not. In this very matter I prefer a nihilistic point of view, does not matter.

[Crescendo]

Dude.... first of all, MIND. BLOWN. Second, nope not really. So ya just gotta sit tight and hope the reality or un(?)reality of life soon comes up with its own "do-over" button.

[Professional Russian]

On my way up to camp for the first day of trout season me my dad and his 2 friends had big disscussion about this. we came to the conclusen that no it can not be proven that anything is real...but what do we know we're just a bunch of "dumb rednecks" according to the people ive told this too

[NotYourSombrero]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
But in this case there's a lot of evidence, such as the fact IT'S THERE.