Abortion

[Thunduhbuhlt]

After about a month of hard research and planning, I am ready to state my opinion on this very controversial topic.

I have decided that I am pro-choice.

I see that it is her choice.

While i still do not agree that abortion is right, i see how it is not my job to worry about other people's choices.

I also decided that a way to prevent abortion in un-needed cases, people should know the facts.

A fetus is living; I know how people will react, just let me explain.
In my eyes, life begins at contraception, when the sperm cells and egg meet and create the embryo. In the woman's body, the fetus is living tissue, which makes it living, technically and scientifically (according to my high school biology teacher). Whenever you believe life begins is your choice.

Adoption is a great method of "getting rid of" unwanted babies. There are 1.5 million families in America waiting to adopt your little baby.

Abortion can harm the woman's body: it can cause infertility, low birth weight, and possible birth defects. This is because when you abort a baby, it can cause some parts of the reproductive system to be harmed. While this risk is low, it still is there.

There is also emotional stress and regret, but that varies depending on the woman, and her situation.

But overall, it is 100% her choice, and no woman should ever rush into an abortion without proper knowledge and preparation.

Sources:
Many of the information was gained from my high school biology teacher from books that she has in her room.

Most other info was gained from this (http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/a/AbortionArgumen.htm) site.

Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________

This is aimed towards the people who I fought with in this (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1626855) thread.
But anyone else can add if you would like.

[Wicked_Syn]

Nullness

[Mortal Coil]

There is no real male equivalent since men cannot get pregnant, thus it is arguably not sexist.
Arguably.
I think that abortion, while not a "nice" thing, is an important right especially in times like these when the planet is becoming overpopulated. It is good for the economy since there will almost always be unwanted pregnancies, whether through faulty birth control, a few moments of poor judgement or (god forbid) rape, and there will, as long as abortion remains legal, always be a need for doctors to terminate these unwanted pregnancies.
The pro-life argument is based on the idea that a human is alive from the moment of conception, which is scientifically true but the fetus cannot survive even for a short time without the mother, unlike a newborn could (for a couple of hours)therefore making it technically not alive yet. Pro-lifers are saying that abortion=murder, and that the child can be given up for adoption or, in the case of a teen pregnancy, raised by grandparents as well.

[Efflorescence]

This is like.....the 100 millionth thread regarding abortion on this forum.

What is VT coming to?

[Mortal Coil]

What is VT coming to?

... a forum where people are standing up for and hopefully justifying their opinions on serious, real-world issues, thus teaching them how to structure and present arguments and preparing them for later life as well as allowing people to understand the viewpoints of others?

I know it was a rhetorical question, I just couldn't stay away. Honestly not trying to be rude or anything

[Genghis Khan]

why the fuck is this still an issue?

[Jess]

Pretty sure I'll get some smart ass remarks from some of you, anyway.

I'm just watching MSNBC and it's talking about women's rights.

I have one question:

Why the fuck is the United States trying to control women with their reproductive rights? Seriously?

If you want my opinion, it's the ladies body. If she chooses that it's not right to bring her child into a situation that is not going to be beneficial to the child's well being, then let her end her pregnancy, it's none of my business, and none of your business.

What is the world coming to?

I totally agree with you. I don't like the fact that there are still people wanting to control women's bodies...

[Jess]

Glad you're pro choice :)

I read this somewhere. it's very old (over a year and a half) but it still outraged me. I know it's absolutely not true but the person that posted it apparently believes that

"if you get raped and get pregnant as a result, God wanted you to get pregnant for a reason. there is absolutely no reason on the face of this earth that ANYBODY should get an abortion. it is wrong. no if's, and's, or's, or but's."


so God let you get raped because he wants you to get pregnant. how freaking stupid is that? like I said, I know most Christians won't agree with that as it's very wrong.

[Mortal Coil]

life begins at contraception, when the sperm cells and egg meet and create the embryo.

life begins at contraception


life begins at contraception

life begins at contraception

life begins at contraception

say what, bolt? Also, Jess- I can't believe someone said that, I want to do some very violent things to whoever thinks that.

[kenoloor]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd282/Nine1215/Just%20Funny/OH-BOY-ITS-THIS-THREAD-AGAIN.jpg

WE NEED MORE ABORTION THREADS.

In my eyes, life begins at contraception

lol.

This is aimed towards the people who I fought with in this (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1626855) thread.

also lol. This was directed at me. Okay.

My views on abortion have been made very clear in the past; I agree with the OP (this time around) that it is the woman's choice. Our respective reasoning we use to reach that conclusion differs, but whatever.

/stupid post

[Erasmus]

Definitively pro choice. Women should have the choice.

It's the women's choice. She can decide what to do.

Double post merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

[Sonic Boom]

They say "If you play adult games, you take adult responsibility!" Idk, its all about the welfare of the child. You may play adult games, but that doesn't make you a responsible adult necessarily. So if you're in no position to properly raise a child (still at school/struggling financially etc), then abortion must be done (early) to prevent a miserable future for both the "mother" and the baby.

[Mortal Coil]

If you play adult games, you take adult responsibility!

What if the girl is raped? What then?
Also, it's completely unfair to say that a woman can't have sex because they're not financially well-equipped to raise a child. Sex drive is a natural instinct that remains despite the way that society has changed. Back when it developed there were no electricity bills or business trips or college tuition fees. The idea that people aren't supposed to deliberately end their pregnancies became obsolete when society demanded that parents have a steady job etc., it would be different if we were still living in hunter-gatherer communities scattered across the globe.

[Efflorescence]

... a forum where people are standing up for and hopefully justifying their opinions on serious, real-world issues, thus teaching them how to structure and present arguments and preparing them for later life as well as allowing people to understand the viewpoints of others?

I know it was a rhetorical question, I just couldn't stay away. Honestly not trying to be rude or anything

Do you know how many threads are there on abortion? It's like people never grow tired of it. There's another new one called 'Abortion'. Just give it a break. That's all I'm saying.

And it's not like I'm going to become pro-choice just because there are a 100 threads showing that everyone on here is pro-choice.

[Sonic Boom]

What if the girl is raped? What then?
Also, it's completely unfair to say that a woman can't have sex because they're not financially well-equipped to raise a child. Sex drive is a natural instinct that remains despite the way that society has changed. Back when it developed there were no electricity bills or business trips or college tuition fees. The idea that people aren't supposed to deliberately end their pregnancies became obsolete when society demanded that parents have a steady job etc., it would be different if we were still living in hunter-gatherer communities scattered across the globe.

Fair enough. I even edited my post to argue differently. But I don't think rape can be classified as a game. That's just sick.

[Jupiter]

They say "If you play adult games, you take adult responsibility!"

who says that sex is an adult game?

[Erasmus]

who says that sex is an adult game?

ya, i know many a kid who has had sex.

[Jupiter]

AND

pro-choice goes a little further than abortion. it also means that you could want equal rights for everyone.

[Erasmus]

AND

pro-choice goes a little further than abortion. it also means that you could want equal rights for everyone.

i second that.

[Commander Thor]

Merging with the existing abortion thread.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

That's great. Keep in mind that pro choice doesn't means pro abortion, you're just in support of rights. You can be politically pro choice and personally pro life at the same time.

Correct, If I was a woman that was pregnant with an unwanted child, I would not get an abortion, but it's the woman's choice.

[TeddyBearRock]

I see why people are against it but I am all for it,

[DanielD210]

I am 100% against abortion. Yes it is the womans choice to do away with her CHILD! if she wants to but its murder! If a boy and girl feel responsible enough to have unprotected sex they should be repsonsible enough to take care of the baby! Why should the child suffer?

[Jess]

I am 100% against abortion. Yes it is the womans choice to do away with her CHILD! if she wants to but its murder! If a boy and girl feel responsible enough to have unprotected sex they should be repsonsible enough to take care of the baby! Why should the child suffer?

it's not murder. we're getting rid of something that's not even human, if it's in the early stages

what if the woman was raped? What if it's a NINE YEAR OLD who was raped and GOT PREGNANT? you want her to give birth????

[StoppingTime]

I am 100% against abortion. Yes it is the womans choice to do away with her CHILD! if she wants to but its murder! If a boy and girl feel responsible enough to have unprotected sex they should be repsonsible enough to take care of the baby! Why should the child suffer?

Just lol.

It isn't murder; it's not even human.
What if she was raped?
Should she have to suffer the pains of pregnancy for no reason?

Her body, her choice, why is that so complicated?

[Amnesiac]

Let me be the first to say that abortion isn't as clear-cut as y'all like to make it out to be. It's not a simple issue. Using overblown hyperbole like "WHAT IF SHE WAS RAPED?!" to justify your positions isn't valid. The fact is that abortion is controversial because the legal rights of a fetus are undefined, and just because someone disagrees with you on that doesn't mean their opinion should be discarded.

I'm pro-choice because I view the unborn fetus as dependent on the mother, and I don't consider it a "person". However, those that disagree have plenty of good points as well. Every time this goddamn dead, beaten horse of a political topic is dumped in ROTW, I see both sides of the debate pull out some of the most inane and mindless arguments to throw into the shitstorm (that forms EVERY SINGLE TIME).

Stop the stupid hypotheticals, guys. We don't ask "what if a NINE YEAR OLD started USING HEROIN?" when talking about drug legalization. There are a million "what-ifs" in every situation, but the probability of those things actually happening is so low that it's negligible. Also, human fetuses are human. That's not something you can spin. Whether or not it's a person is what we're debating here, and it doesn't make someone stupid if they believe that a fetus is one.

I'm against the criminilization of abortion because I see it as preferable to a society where women resort to desperate measures to "get rid of" their unborn children, and I don't believe the government has the authority to regulate critical medical issues like that. If you're going to argue for the pro-choice side of the debate, at least try to do it with a level head and without using ridiculous, way-out-there arguments that don't make any sense. Don't laugh at people who disagree. Stop bombarding your opponents with a bunch of hypothetical questions.

[Bluebird14]

I do think abortion is wrong, but that doesn't mean I think it is right to stand outside on abortion clinic and harass young girls who are already having a hard time

[StoppingTime]

Let me be the first to say that abortion isn't as clear-cut as y'all like to make it out to be. It's not a simple issue. Using overblown hyperbole like "WHAT IF SHE WAS RAPED?!" to justify your positions isn't valid. The fact is that abortion is controversial because the legal rights of a fetus are undefined, and just because someone disagrees with you on that doesn't mean their opinion should be discarded.

Hmm, I don't disregard their opinions, I just have not seen one that makes logical sense to me, I still listen.


I'm pro-choice because I view the unborn fetus as dependent on the mother, and I don't consider it a "person". However, those that disagree have plenty of good points as well. Every time this goddamn dead, beaten horse of a political topic is dumped in ROTW, I see both sides of the debate pull out some of the most inane and mindless arguments to throw into the shitstorm (that forms EVERY SINGLE TIME).


Stop the stupid hypotheticals, guys. We don't ask "what if a NINE YEAR OLD started USING HEROIN?" when talking about drug legalization. There are a million "what-ifs" in every situation, but the probability of those things actually happening is so low that it's negligible. Also, human fetuses are human. That's not something you can spin. Whether or not it's a person is what we're debating here, and it doesn't make someone stupid if they believe that a fetus is one.

Excuse my terminology, you're right. They are human, but I don't view it as a person in the earlier stages.

I'm against the criminilization of abortion because I see it as preferable to a society where women resort to desperate measures to "get rid of" their unborn children, and I don't believe the government has the authority to regulate critical medical issues like that. If you're going to argue for the pro-choice side of the debate, at least try to do it with a level head and without using ridiculous, way-out-there arguments that don't make any sense. Don't laugh at people who disagree. Stop bombarding your opponents with a bunch of hypothetical questions.

You know, this does have some sense to it. (I know, generic gasp.) I can see the fact that it is more controversial in everyday life, not just in extremes.
I do not think the government has the right to control it, but that doesn't mean I think it's right for someone to use it as a "get rid of" mechanism.

[Chadrick.rox]

There is a bill being passed (just VA?) That says you have to get an ultrasound before you have an abortion. What do you think?

[Amnesiac]

Hmm, I don't disregard their opinions, I just have not seen one that makes logical sense to me, I still listen.

I'm really talking to all of VT here, since previous (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127658) abortion threads have gotten really heated and both sides have committed their fair share of illogicality. There are plenty of pro-life arguments that are just as valid as pro-choice ones, it's just that sensible debate on both sides gets buried under all the hypotheticals and flaming.

Excuse my terminology, you're right. They are human, but I don't view it as a person in the earlier stages.

And that's where the disagreement comes in. Not everybody agrees on what a "person" is, and it's annoying when people automatically assume that those who are against abortion are "anti-woman".

You know, this does have some sense to it. (I know, generic gasp.) I can see the fact that it is more controversial in everyday life, not just in extremes.
I do not think the government has the right to control it, but that doesn't mean I think it's right for someone to use it as a "get rid of" mechanism.

I just think that a lot of people view the issue of abortion through a very limited lens – only the extremes. Once you remove all of the fanatics, it's a simple problem of definitions. Things like the word "person" and the legal ramifications of defining that word make up the entire debate, basically. It's not all about women's rights. Too many people try and make it all about women's rights, when it's not strictly limited to that field.

I meant "get rid of" in that they wouldn't have anywhere else to go, not that they'd do it on a whim.

[Korashk]

Adoption is a great method of "getting rid of" unwanted babies. There are 1.5 million families in America waiting to adopt your little baby.
This snippet kinda pisses me off. There are only about 110,000 kids in the adoption system.

Holy shit government. I knew the adoption process was retarded, but I didn't know it was THAT goddamn retarded.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

This snippet kinda pisses me off. There are only about 110,000 kids in the adoption system.

Holy shit government. I knew the adoption process was retarded, but I didn't know it was THAT goddamn retarded.

I don't understand your stance on this, are you saying there are too many babies that are in adoption facilities? Or what?

[Korashk]

I don't understand your stance on this, are you saying there are too many babies that are in adoption facilities? Or what?
I'm saying that it's too hard to adopt a kid in America because of ridiculous overregulation. Adoption facilities are notoriously poor in quality due to lack of government support and overcrowding. For the most part they're like lenient prisons for children.

Yet if your statistic is to be believed, then if every woman who got an abortion last year had the kid and put it up for adoption and the government granted every couple who applied a child there'd still be around 200,000 couples forced to go without.

This is a gigantic failing on the side of the government.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

I was not aware of this problem, and it should be fixed right away to help those people get the children they deserve.

I guess they may be making sure they aren't like baby molesters but still.

[StoppingTime]

I was not aware of this problem, and it should be fixed right away to help those people get the children they deserve.

I guess they may be making sure they aren't like baby molesters but still.

Yea, wouldn't that be nice.
And besides, you would still have to go through the pains of pregnancy, and some women just don't want that.
Now, I don't think it's right to use it as a "I was drunk lets get rid of this thing" method, but that shouldn't put any restrictions on it.

[NephilimAzrael]

I am way pro-life, though I can see the point of pro-choice arguments (to a degree) but I tihnk the only reason abortion should be allowed is if the mother could be seriously injured/killed during pregnancy/child birth (eg, a woman w/ brittle bone syndrome, though idk how she'd procreate if the 1st place then but u get the point) or, if it is a drastic case, if she was raped. i'm not saying there's serious rape and normal rape, rape is rape, and it's a very traumatic experience, but i think that since killing a pregnant woman is "double murder" abortion is murder

[Jess]

I am way pro-life, though I can see the point of pro-choice arguments (to a degree) but I tihnk the only reason abortion should be allowed is if the mother could be seriously injured/killed during pregnancy/child birth (eg, a woman w/ brittle bone syndrome, though idk how she'd procreate if the 1st place then but u get the point) or, if it is a drastic case, if she was raped. i'm not saying there's serious rape and normal rape, rape is rape, and it's a very traumatic experience, but i think that since killing a pregnant woman is "double murder" abortion is murder

right..."killing" a cell is murder...

[Weber_Swagg]

I think abortion should be up to the parents/mom because if a life is taken before it even takes a breath what's so wrong about it? I personally would never get one. Also I feel like if people have sex they should use protection unless they are able to support a baby. It also pisses me off if someone is a slut, gets drunk and has sex without protection and then when they get pregnant then they are all shocked and then they just decide to get an abortion and don't learn anything. But I think people should be able to have an abortion.