Guns, Guns, Guns

[CuriousDestruction]

Legal or illegal? When can they be used to shoot others? Restrictions on ownership? Mandates for ownership?

Personally I understand if you want to keep a 12 gauge shotgun handy or even a 9mm as long as you are licensed to carry, you have taught your kids not to touch them, and you are keeping them in a gun case with the safety on. I grew up in a bad neighborhood I understand the need to feel secure.

However, if you own a fully automatic uzi or other submachine gun you better be in a war zone, otherwise there's no reason to need one for self defense. And you shouldn't need to be concealing your weapon either. The bad guys will see you have a gun? Good. Then they'll stay away. Better to not need to use the weapon and avoid trouble altogether.

What do you all think?

[Skeptical Bear]

Illegal. We live in a nation where fear is pumped into every single person through the media. If I were to break into a normal American household at night where they own a gun, I'd probably be shot in a heart beat with out no hesitation. Last I heard, we have the highest count of murders involving guns.Less guns. Less crimes. Simple as that. And yes. There will be those that will get their hands on guns illegally; but hey, will it be at the level we are now? America is way too ignorant to handle safety.

[Gaybaby94]

Illegal. We live in a nation where fear is pumped into every single person through the media. If I were to break into a normal American household at night where they own a gun, I'd probably be shot in a heart beat with out no hesitation. Last I heard, we have the highest count of murders involving guns.Less guns. Less crimes. Simple as that. And yes. There will be those that will get their hands on guns illegally; but hey, will it be at the level we are now? America is way too ignorant to handle safety.

Basically this.

[huginnmuninn]

most of the houses where i live have at least 1 gun most have more. Hasnt been a murder in my town in ... umm i cant think of one actually it just doesnt happen here.
guns =/= murder

[Thunduhbuhlt]

2 words, GUN CONTROL! this magical phrase can change a lot of criminals and could probably lower our crime, not too knowledgeable on any plans, just know the basics.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I'm sorry but people who think we shouldn't be allowed to own guns and carry concealed weapons are irrational. First of all you pretty much have the right to shoot on sight if someone is breaking into your house. Second of all if we don't have guns the bad guys will still be able to get them and we will have no way to protect ourselves. Third just because someone sees you have a gun doesn't mean they aren't going to fuck with you. The element of surprise is always helpful. As for people who have the big guns well some people in this country find reason to brag about the second amendment, good for them.

[Amnesiac]

Legal. We've all learned that having the government heavily control or abolish entire sectors of the economy simply doesn't work when it comes to getting rid of specific products. It's been attempted with drugs, alcohol and pornography. We're all familiar with the War on Drugs, which has the same basic premise as gun control – that something is affecting society and it must be banned or restricted. Yet so many liberals advocate the decriminalization of drugs and the criminalization of ownership of many types of guns. It doesn't make any sense.

There is absolutely no reason to distrust the average American's ability to own and use a weapon sensibly. Making guns illegal only creates a black market for the sale of guns to criminals (which is exactly what happened during prohibition and the War on Drugs) while depriving the average citizen of self-defense against people violating their rights, be it a couple of robbers or a totalitarian government.

Whether or not gun control even affects crime rates is a controversial issue. I don't even think that's relevant, though – I'm not one for trading individual liberty for security. Increasing state power to "make society safer" is a risky attitude that attempts to justify stripping individuals of their legal rights. It's what conservatives use to ban sodomy, homosexuality and porn, and to justify waterboarding, the PATRIOT Act and the death penalty. It's also what liberals use to increase economic regulations, taxes and the state bureaucracy. But anyway, I'll just leave a few links here: click (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp), click (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/weekinreview/29liptak.html?pagewanted=all), click (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States).

[CuriousDestruction]

just because someone sees you have a gun doesn't mean they aren't going to fuck with you. The element of surprise is always helpful. As for people who have the big guns well some people in this country find reason to brag about the second amendment, good for them.

Yeah, no, i'm just not seeing how this makes sense. the first part at least. I have yet to meet a person who was clearly carrying a weapon who got fucked with on my street. And as for the second amendment, that is true I just am weary of people using AK47s to commit atrocities. And there is no way in hell the average citizen needs one of these for shits and giggles:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Tj__oCLmuy0/TWXfExq9cbI/AAAAAAAAFos/FgEs2PF4EUk/s1600/gatlin%2Bminigun_original.jpg

[kenoloor]

inb4 Professional Russian shits on this thread. I fail to see the necessity in yet another thread about guns. The previous thread's corpse is barely cold.

Anyway, I essentially agree with Justin. My opinions, over time, have gone back and forth on this issue, however most everything in his post, I agree with. That being said, I think concealed carry is fucking stupid. I fail to see any legitimate scenario wherein one (normal civilian) would need a concealed weapon when an unconcealed weapon wouldn't suffice.

[Peace God]

There is absolutely no reason to distrust the average American's ability to own and use a weapon sensibly.
lol but srsly tho

[green]

I would preffer to be able to carry a god damn broadsword around over a gun. No one will fuck with you when your carrying a bloody broadsword over your shoulder

[Mortal Coil]

Legal or illegal? Legal
When can they be used to shoot others? Self-defense only
Restrictions on ownership? Age restrictions, e.g. must be 18 or 21+
Mandates for ownership? Must prove mental soundness (sounds discriminatory, but we don't want psychotic, senile or depressed people owning guns)

[Darkness.]

Legal or illegal? Legal.
When can they be used to shoot others? Self-defense.
Restrictions on ownership? Must be 18 or older and must have a gun license.
Mandates for ownership? Must be mentally stable and should have basic knowledge of guns and gun safety.

Just a note to everyone that doesn't know all guns in Australia are illegal unless you have a gun license. Semi-automatic guns have been illegal since 1996 and fully-automatic guns have been illegal since 1930.

[Mortal Coil]

Restrictions on ownership? Must be 18 or older and must have a gun license.
.

How does one qualify for a gun license?

[Skeptical Bear]

If the founding fathers saw how firearms play a role in this society, they would've banned guns right then and there. Their intention to have firearms were not for what we use them for today. Making them illegal seems the best option to lessen crime. No matter what we do, we can never completely stop violence. It's in human nature. All we can do is suppress it.

[Professional Russian]

Legal or illegal? Legal.
When can they be used to shoot others? Self-defense.
Restrictions on ownership? Must be 18 or older and must have a gun license.
Mandates for ownership? Must be mentally stable and should have basic knowledge of guns and gun safety.

Just a note to everyone that doesn't know all guns in Australia are illegal unless you have a gun license. Semi-automatic guns have been illegal since 1996 and fully-automatic guns have been illegal since 1930.

No no no. I own several Automatic Firearms. A Class 3 FFl Lets me own them legally.

Now to answer the question. Yes they should be legal to own. The only time to use is self defense, hunting, or just good old target practice. You should have to be 21(already in place for handguns) To a rifle. Should you be able to carry it concealed. Yes my dad carrys all the time but you need a CCW Permit to do and they run backround checks and all that other good shit before they actually give it too you.

[Darkness.]

How does one qualify for a gun license?

Everything in my first post and They cannot have a criminal record and must have training on a shooting range.

If I think of anything else I'll edit this post.

No no no. I own several Automatic Firearms. A Class 3 FFl Lets me own them legally.

I said in Australia.

[Professional Russian]

If the founding fathers saw how firearms play a role in this society, they would've banned guns right then and there. Their intention to have firearms were not for what we use them for today. Making them illegal seems the best option to lessen crime. No matter what we do, we can never completely stop violence. It's in human nature. All we can do is suppress it.


You have got to be fucking kidding me. If we take away the bad guys will ALWAYS find a way to get them. Its just a matter of time before the get them.



I said in Australia.

Sorry didnt read that part. I just saw automatic and illegal. Sorry

[Jess]

Legal or illegal? Legal.
When can they be used to shoot others? Self-defense.
Restrictions on ownership? Must be 18 or older and must have a gun license.
Mandates for ownership? Must be mentally stable and should have basic knowledge of guns and gun safety.

Just a note to everyone that doesn't know all guns in Australia are illegal unless you have a gun license. Semi-automatic guns have been illegal since 1996 and fully-automatic guns have been illegal since 1930.

basically all of this. I don't think there should be a lot of gun control as there will be protests against that, but it should be mandated so that people with a background of crime, aren't mentally stable or are minors do not get their hands on a gun.

[Erasmus]

Illegal. We live in a nation where fear is pumped into every single person through the media. If I were to break into a normal American household at night where they own a gun, I'd probably be shot in a heart beat with out no hesitation. Last I heard, we have the highest count of murders involving guns.Less guns. Less crimes. Simple as that. And yes. There will be those that will get their hands on guns illegally; but hey, will it be at the level we are now? America is way too ignorant to handle safety.

^this^

[Professional Russian]

^this^

I think I might Die. Why cant anybody figure the Bad Guys WILL ALWAYS GET GUNS. If they had guns and we didnt there would be a higher crime rate because we couldnt DEFEND OUR SELVES .

[Amnesiac]

If the founding fathers saw how firearms play a role in this society, they would've banned guns right then and there. Their intention to have firearms were not for what we use them for today. Making them illegal seems the best option to lessen crime. No matter what we do, we can never completely stop violence. It's in human nature. All we can do is suppress it.

The Second Amendment was created mainly out of the Founding Fathers' desire to establish a militia in the United States. The militia concept was created to establish an army of citizens that could counter any threats by the government to their liberties, or repel foreign invaders. Things like self-defense were also taken into consideration when drafting the Second Amendment, but the focus was on militias (one of which was actually created (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) in 1794, but failed).

Considering that the Founders were eager to create a society where citizens were armed against the federal government, as well as for self-defense, I doubt their objections to modern gun laws would stem from how people today use them, but rather from the fact that the federal government is unchecked by the power of a militia. No, I'm not suggesting that we need to create a militia, but I'm just pointing out that that's what the Founding Fathers would actually care about if they were teleported to the 21st century.

You're right, violence is part of human nature and cannot be stopped. But why would depriving citizens of a tool of self-defense and creating a black market for illegal guns be preferable? Also, what about those who simply use guns for recreation? There's no doubt that the United States is unique because it has a gun culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_culture) – what gives the government (or any of us) the right to go in and diminish their lifestyle because we think it's "dangerous"? Because we can't trust them to use their weapons safely? An overwhelming majority of American gun owners are licensed and use their guns safely. Criminals are the exception.

lol but srsly tho

ey man u callin americans stupid or sumthin

:usflag:

[Skeptical Bear]

Do you have anything to back that up with?

He doesn't have to. It happened with prohibition for example. Most found a way to get alcohol illegally during that time. Let's not forget Al Capone.

[Professional Russian]

Do you have anything to back that up with?

Its a proven fucking fact. Every single fucking time a murder happens the bad guy most likely has a fucking gun right? If he got then he'll be able to fucking get one if they were outlawed

[Electra Heart]

I think that they're pointless in most situations. I supose hunting rifles aren't as terrible as others, and even then, bows work fine. As for pistols and shotguns, I see NO point in having them, aside from the police, army, etc. Why even sell them to people?

[Professional Russian]

Because they're fun. (I just realized im going to loose every rep point i have from this post)

[Amnesiac]

Do you have anything to back that up with?

As with prohibition and the War on Drugs, banning something does not make it disappear. An illegal firearm market would form if guns were made illegal. It's obvious that criminals are the least likely to obey gun laws, and would obtain weapons regardless of whether or not they were banned.

I think that they're pointless in most situations. I supose hunting rifles aren't as terrible as others, and even then, bows work fine. As for pistols and shotguns, I see NO point in having them, aside from the police, army, etc. Why even sell them to people?

Who are we to tell people what they like to do is "pointless" and must be banned? That's the same thing people who are against marijuana legalization like to say: that it's pointless and should be illegal. If a person wants to use guns, they should be allowed to. One of the core concepts of a free society is that you don't deprive people of their rights simply because they have the potential to do something wrong. Nobody here has the right to tell gun users that what they're doing is bad. It's not until they actually violate someone else's rights that they should be punished.

[Professional Russian]

As with prohibition and the War on Drugs, banning something does not make it disappear. An illegal firearm market would form if guns were made illegal. It's obvious that criminals are the least likely to obey gun laws, and would obtain weapons regardless of whether or not they were banned.



Who are we to tell people what they like to do is "pointless" and must be banned? That's the same thing people who are against marijuana legalization like to say: that it's pointless and should be illegal. If a person wants to use guns, they should be allowed to. One of the core concepts of a free society is that you don't deprive people of their rights simply because they have the potential to do something wrong. Nobody here has the right to tell gun users that what they're doing is bad. It's not until they actually violate someone else's rights that they should be punished.

Thank you finally someone who understands what im saying.

[Genghis Khan]

Its a proven fucking fact. Every single fucking time a murder happens the bad guy most likely has a fucking gun right?

Nope, lol.

[BOSS]

What ever happened to the right to bear arms?!? And for crying out loud GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE kill people. GOT IT???

[Professional Russian]

What ever happened to the right to bear arms?!? And for crying out loud GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE kill people. GOT IT???

Thank you. you know what im saying

[Genghis Khan]

What ever happened to the right to bear arms?!? And for crying out loud GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE kill people. GOT IT???

But it's quite obvious that if you make something (that serves no other purpose but to kill) legal, it becomes easy to get a hold of for the people who want to misuse it. I mean I see Justin's point about how illegalising something doesn't permanently get rid of it but it can surely help decrease the numbers of deaths through firearms in this case. Here in the UK, there is barely any talk of gun crime. It's never on the news nor is it a problem, there was a time where it had increased quite a bit from 2008-2009 (I think?) but through regulation and security measures gun crime had decreased and up till now is still in the 1-3% numbers. Similarly I don't think gun crime is particularly a big thing in Canada.

You can impose a ton of regulations on how to use guns and not misuse them, but to legalise something that has no purpose other than to kill will inevitably raise the number of deaths. Mafias and gangs may exploit this the minute they get the opportunity, it'll be easier to break into houses, rob banks and just in a general sense, wreak havoc. Sure, you can buy guns to defend yourself but to think that owning gun is enough to save you from people who are sly, cunning and careful when it comes to assassinations or robbery is kind of far-fetched. They're not going to break in when you're cautious and alert, giving you enough time to shoot them in the face. They're not stupid.

[Professional Russian]

But it's quite obvious that if you make something (that serves no other purpose but to kill) legal, it becomes easy to get a hold of for the people who want to misuse it. I mean I see Justin's point about how illegalising something doesn't permanently get rid of it but it can surely help decrease the numbers of deaths through firearms in this case. Here in the UK, there is barely any talk of gun crime. It's never on the news nor is it a problem, there was a time where it had increased quite a bit from 2008-2009 (I think?) but through regulation and security measures gun crime had decreased and up till now is still in the 1-3% numbers. Similarly I don't think gun crime is particularly a big thing in Canada.

But the bad guys will still get guns. And theyre fun. If used properly and they get my food

[Genghis Khan]

But the bad guys will still get guns.

The number of people in the UK that can somehow smuggle a handgun into this country are not even marginally significant enough to be considered. UK law is extremely strict and security is tight. When you have a country that takes its security seriously, risks like these are minimal. Plus I explained earlier how carrying a gun won't necessarily be useful against people who do decide to break into your house.

And theyre fun. If used properly and they get my food

Oh they're fun, well forgive me for being so stupid all along.

[Professional Russian]

A fucking 12 gauge will be and/or .44 Mag.

[huginnmuninn]

The number of people in the UK that can somehow smuggle a handgun into this country are not even marginally significant enough to be considered. UK law is extremely strict and security is tight. When you have a country that takes its security seriously, risks like these are minimal. .

yea but the US government doesnt know how to keep anything out of the country. Drugs and illegal immigrants are two examples. During the Prohibition they couldnt stop alcohol from getting around.

[Genghis Khan]

yea but the US government doesnt know how to keep anything out of the country. Drugs and illegal immigrants are two examples.

Then they should.. I don't know... know how to do it? Can you imagine how bad an excuse that would be for the government to not ban guns and impose security?

[Professional Russian]

Then they should.. I don't know... know how to do it? Can you imagine how bad an excuse that would be for the government to not ban guns and impose security?

I guarantee that is the government tried to ban guns there would be a civil war and the citizens would win.

[Genghis Khan]

I guarantee that is the government tried to ban guns there would be a civil war and the citizens would win.

Oh of course the highly sophisticated & trained military who spends literally billions on weapons and warfare couldn't stand a chance against the average American wielding a rifle with which they hunt their deer.

[Professional Russian]

Oh of course the highly sophisticated trained military who spends literally billions on weapons and warfare couldn't stand a chance against the average American wielding a rifle with which he hunts his deer.

Most of military would be on the citizens side. Its obvious

[Genghis Khan]

Most of military would be on the citizens side. Its obvious

Why do you say that? You think the military that operates on the judgements of the United States government and have been doing so for fucking years would suddenly think it's a good idea to stand by the citizens instead?

[Professional Russian]

Becuase most people in the military like the right to keep and bear arms. if they didnt why would they go and shoot people all day.?

[Genghis Khan]

Becuase most people in the military like the right to keep and bear arms. if they didnt why would they go and shoot people all day.?

I suppose by 'shoot people all day' you mean currently engage in warfare against the Taliban in Afghanistan? That is because they have been ordered to, the decision was made by Bush to invade Afghanistan. They aren't going there and shooting people for a laugh and moreover doing it because they 'like the right to keep and bear arms'.

[huginnmuninn]

Then they should.. I don't know... know how to do it? Can you imagine how bad an excuse that would be for the government to not ban guns and impose security?

Youre right its not i good excuse. But with guns legalized there is a system where the police can know who has a registered gun (i know not all guns are registered) and it can be regulated. If guns are made illegal there will be no system.

on a side note. Ive seen about a thousadn times on marijuana debates about how it being illegal means it cant be regulated and people are getting it anyway so why not make weed legal.

[Genghis Khan]

Youre right its not i good excuse. But with guns legalized there is a system where the police can know who has a registered gun (i know not all guns are registered) and it can be regulated. If guns are made illegal there will be no system.

Right and people will not be able to purchase them in the first place. Strict security restrictions can push down the level of gun crime and the problem can be actively dealt with rather than making a really complicated system where you register, go through training, sign a load of documents, pay money just for the sake of owning a weapon. At this point I don't even know the actual benefits of owning a weapon other than 'it can be used for defence' which again can only be applicable to situations where the criminals are total fuckwads. Plus of course the famous 'it's fun' argument.

on a side note. Ive seen about a thousadn times on marijuana debates about how it being illegal means it cant be regulated and people are getting it anyway so why not make weed legal.

I wouldn't compare marijuana legalisation to right to bear arms. Marijuana is strictly about what we do with our own body, a persons individual right to infest their body with whatever junk they want. The right to bear arms is a demanded individual right that comes at the expense of putting other people at risk of being killed due to the accessibility of the guns.

[Professional Russian]

Why would you go into the military if you hate guns. all you see is guns explosives and everything bad

[huginnmuninn]

Right and people will not be able to purchase them in the first place. Strict security restrictions can push down the level of gun crime and the problem can be actively dealt with rather than making a really complicated system where you register, go through training, sign a load of documents, pay money just for the sake of owning a weapon. At this point I don't even know the actual benefits of owning a weapon other than 'it can be used for defence' which again can only be applicable to situations where the criminals are total fuckwads. Plus of course the famous 'it's fun' argument.



I wouldn't compare marijuana legalisation to right to bear arms. Marijuana is strictly what we do with our own body, a persons individual right to infest his body with whatever junk they want. The right to bear arms is a demanded individual right that comes at the expense of putting other people at risk of being killed due to the accessibility of the guns.

benefits: hunting, there are certain parts of america that you need to have a gun to protect yourself from animals that attack people, and the us economy is in the shit and the loss of jobs would screw it up even worse than it already is.

[Genghis Khan]

Why would you go into the military if you hate guns. all you see is guns explosives and everything bad

I really don't know how else to explain this to you but, here goes;


People can go into military for a number of reasons, it doesn't have to be because of an infatuation with weaponry. Some people may not like weapons but do it because it gives them a sense of patriotism. It makes them feel like they are making a difference by indulging in the traditional way of 'doing something for your country'. One doesn't have to be a gun freak to be in the military.
Regardless of how many people in the military do like guns, it is not up to the military to make decisions on how the country should be run, it serves as a defence mechanism. I'm sure people in the military have a much better understanding of how dangerous weapons can actually be and may not want people to mess around in that murky puddle. It's taken them years to develop into the marines that they are and even they can make mistakes.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is the military doesn't (or if it even does, it shouldn't) have a say in what laws need to be imposed in the country. Leave it up to the governing body to make these decisions and not the defence mechanism.

[CuriousDestruction]

benefits: hunting, there are certain parts of america that you need to have a gun to protect yourself from animals that attack people, and the us economy is in the shit and the loss of jobs would screw it up even worse than it already is.

Um, no. Just no. We do not have tribes living in the jungle. There are not tigers attacking villages left and right. The only reason we need guns to kill animals is because we hunt them.

And the loss of a few jobs is worth a lot of lives saved in my opinion.

[Korashk]

Oh of course the highly sophisticated & trained military who spends literally billions on weapons and warfare couldn't stand a chance against the average American wielding a rifle with which they hunt their deer.
Historical examples kind-of show that this is true.

The American Revolution was won by a bunch of farmers with guns, French Resistance fighters in WWII were highly successful at hounding Nazi forces, the Viet-Cong held off American forces in Vietnam, modern guerrilla fighters in the middle east less capable of equipping themselves than the average American citizen are holding their own against the same highly sophisticated and trained military you're implying the average American citizen stands no chance at resisting.

It's funny how sarcasm can turn itself around.

[Genghis Khan]

Historical examples kind-of show that this is true.

The American Revolution was won by a bunch of farmers with guns, French Resistance fighters in WWII were highly successful at hounding Nazi forces, the Viet-Cong held off American forces in Vietnam, modern guerrilla fighters in the middle east less capable of equipping themselves than the average American citizen are holding their own against the same highly sophisticated and trained military you're implying the average American citizen stands no chance at resisting.

It's funny how sarcasm can turn itself around.

The flaw in that is some of your examples are far back in history where there wasn't that much of a difference between military weaponry and average citizen weaponry. I'd like to know how much difference there was between the 'bunch of farmers with guns' and the opposition.

Viet-Cong holding forces back in Vietnam was down to the country's geography. You cannot defeat a force of people that live in either mountainous or jungle regions without nuking the entire place. Which goes to your second point about the Afghan opposition and the U.S. military's strategic failures.

Putting all of this into perspective. If the military wages war against the people in its own country with a fairly urbanised landscape, the U.S. military would know its own country inside out as compared to a foreign land like Vietnam or Afghanistan, and also considering its highest ranking in the list of armies I would say the U.S. military has a very good chance at decimating the American population. Not that this is in any way realistic, but it'd be impractical to compare failed wars in foreign lands and historical events such as the American revolution and the French to the present situation.

[Sugaree]

I try to stay out of debates about guns. Living in the Midwest, where gun ownership is pretty common in rural areas, you get used to having them around you. To make guns outright illegal is going against the personal liberty of the individual citizen to protect themselves. Sure, not everybody in the United States is going to be burglarized or mugged, but when it DOES happen, how do you defend yourself? Well, there's the typical martial arts training and there's a gun. Which one is more effective when used? Most likely, a gun.

I think that regulations on guns need to change. Buying a gun to own should be a simple and easy process, but it isn't. Why? Because of all the fear mongering that is pumped into the media and then into the American public mindset. Allowing anybody, who is at or above the age of 21, the ability to own a gun as long as they have proper identification, a permit for the gun, and/or a conceal/carry, then they shouldn't be forced to go through all the red tape.

In regards to a second Civil War if the government outlaws guns...no. The citizens would never win in this case. Whoever thinks you can take a ragtag group of citizens, who probably have little to hardly any firearms training, against a disciplined and well trained army with advanced technology not even known to the public is fucking insane. It would be absolute suicide.

[Professional Russian]

I try to stay out of debates about guns. Living in the Midwest, where gun ownership is pretty common in rural areas, you get used to having them around you. To make guns outright illegal is going against the personal liberty of the individual citizen to protect themselves. Sure, not everybody in the United States is going to be burglarized or mugged, but when it DOES happen, how do you defend yourself? Well, there's the typical martial arts training and there's a gun. Which one is more effective when used? Most likely, a gun.

I think that regulations on guns need to change. Buying a gun to own should be a simple and easy process, but it isn't. Why? Because of all the fear mongering that is pumped into the media and then into the American public mindset. Allowing anybody, who is at or above the age of 21, the ability to own a gun as long as they have proper identification, a permit for the gun, and/or a conceal/carry, then they shouldn't be forced to go through all the red tape.

In regards to a second Civil War if the government outlaws guns...no. The citizens would never win in this case. Whoever thinks you can take a ragtag group of citizens, who probably have little to hardly any firearms training, against a disciplined and well trained army with advanced technology not even known to the public is fucking insane. It would be absolute suicide.

I agree with all of this except The last paragraph.

Some or most of the armed forces would be on the citizens side because when they get out they would not be able to have a gun which would piss them off so they would fight against the government

[Genghis Khan]

Some or most of the armed forces would be on the citizens side because when they get out they would not be able to have a gun which would piss them off so they would fight against the government

So, every single person in the military is for the right to bear arms? I don't think so. Even then, this wouldn't nearly be a valid enough reason to actively rebel against the government by starting a civil war. That would be irrealistic.

[Professional Russian]

So, every single person in the military is for the right to bear arms? I don't think so. Even then, this wouldn't nearly be a valid enough reason to actively rebel against the government by starting a civil war. That would be irrealistic.

I said Some or most would. I just figured it out today the government wouldnt take the guns because they cant.

[huginnmuninn]

Even then, this wouldn't nearly be a valid enough reason to actively rebel against the government by starting a civil war. That would be irrealistic.

Youve apparently never been to the south...

Even if there wasnt a civil war there would still be people rioting in the streets and not just a few people it would be thousands of people

[Professional Russian]

Youve apparently never been to the south...

Even if there wasnt a civil war there would still be people rioting in the streets and not just a few people it would be thousands of people

Thank You.

[StoppingTime]

http://4funz.com/Funny-Pictures/random/img-oh-look-this-thread-again-167

I believe that guns should be legal for a few reasons.

1. If they aren't there will only be a large, black market, gun smuggling event here. We definitely don't need that, just look at the drug war now. Only imagine it with guns instead.

2. However, there should be stricter regulations.
a. Must be 21+ IN ALL STATES
b. Full, and complete background check, including possible health issues.
c. Constant need (every two years or so), to renew the license.
d. Nobody should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon without a special license stating so.


But yes, they should be legal.

[MisterSix]

I find the New Zealand firearms laws are great. Not mind blowingly hard to get a gun, like in U.K and AUS, but not letting blind people carry them in the streets like in the USA.

[Professional Russian]

So, every single person in the military is for the right to bear arms? I don't think so. Even then, this wouldn't nearly be a valid enough reason to actively rebel against the government by starting a civil war. That would be irrealistic.

Youve apparently never been to the south...

Even if there wasnt a civil war there would still be people rioting in the streets and not just a few people it would be thousands of people

About this If you lived in the US which i dont think you do you would know how most people feel about guns. There are alot of people that hate them there are just as many or more that like them. I am for i guns. My passion is to buy, build, sell and trade guns. I can only do this because of 1(My dad lets me use his name for everything and 2(Because of the the right to keep and bear arms. Now I now its Illegal for me to use my dads name on thengs but he agreed to it. But back on topic. If the government did take guns away(Which they wouldnt) The crime rate would get HIGHER Because the bad guys will ALWAYS Get guns. If i cant defend my self the bad guy will kill me causeing crime rates to go up because they KNOW the rest of the country wont have guns which makes it easier to get what they want. Plus the government would get rebeled against so badly. Hell id rebel with everyone else. This is why i dont like getting into debates about guns sure i like them and everything but the people that dont live in the U.S. dont know what its like here and how many people enjoy guns.

[Sebastian Michaelis]

Guns should be legal, with many restrictions and regulations:
Regulated by the NATIONAL government
Criminal records should be checked
Required mental health evaluation
ONLY HANDGUNS CAN BE OWNED No high powered weapons - Full Auto, Shotguns, ect. (Higher Powered guns can be rented for hunting or other legal purposes)
Min age of 25
Proper storage should be checked
Ammo Limit - use some sort of card to keep track, must use card to buy ammo
Gun limit - ex. 3 max
Week of training/lessons - Learn how to use it properly and the rules of using it against someone for defense
Required renewal of license every few years

I can't think of anymore, but that should definitely cover most of the issues and weed out the majority of the problem people.

[Sporadica]

Every gun should be legal, full auto M60 machine gun if you want and can afford, no registration, only requirement is you be a citizen and be 18 years old, even with that I have some wiggle room like in Canada we have minors licence, a 12 year old can have a gun unsupervised.

I also feel everyone should be allowed to carry a concealed, loaded handgun.


also to clear up what people here about what happens with gun bans.

- Less guns, same amount of crime
- Less gun violence with a gun ban? true, but that doesn't stop A SINGLE PERSON from bashing the fuck out of your face with a bat.
- It's a right in the USA and I personally feel it is a right to be armed
- An armed society is a polite society
- I'd like to see armies try to make a land invasion against the USA, guerrilla warfare
- Also take a look at jolly old England, citizens rarely can have guns and look at the gun crime there, it hasn't gone down. But now you have a monitored society that has hundreds of thousands of cameras, if the government wanted to round up people and put them in some camps, I doubt the english people could fight back.





also I beleive if you think a gun ban will work, you haven't suffered enough.

[Skeptical Bear]

Nice. Lets give them the right to bear explosives as well. You can't get rid of crime completely but restricting certain firearms will lessen some of the crime rate. Also, we have a higher gun murder rate than England from what I heard. I mean, I can see where we'd be fucking up their rights but if it's saving a few thousand lives a day, count me in.

[Sporadica]

Nice. Lets give them the right to bear explosives as well. You can't get rid of crime completely but restricting certain firearms will lessen some of the crime rate. Also, we have a higher gun murder rate than England from what I heard. I mean, I can see where we'd be fucking up their rights but if it's saving a few thousand lives a day, count me in.

Really? Because I live in Canada and with our gun registry, it has proven to be a 2 billion dollar waste of cash, which police have said they have no confidence in the system, and which was recently abolished.

And in Canada firearms have been restricted and that hasn't affected gun related crimes. I can surely tell you that I will be armed, weather guns are allowed for the general public or not, I'm sick of the government coming around and telling people what they can and cannot have.

So in England do you feel free? like with your National ID cards and your copious amount of security cameras and your inability to fight opression from the government?

I'm cool with peaceful protesting but ultimately in the world the supreme power of action is force.


- My 5 cents

[Professional Russian]

Nice. Lets give them the right to bear explosives as well. You can't get rid of crime completely but restricting certain firearms will lessen some of the crime rate. Also, we have a higher gun murder rate than England from what I heard. I mean, I can see where we'd be fucking up their rights but if it's saving a few thousand lives a day, count me in.

I hace an ecplosives licence. I can own any explosive i want. Aslong as i have the money

[Azunite]

Now to answer the question. Yes they should be legal to own. The only time to use is self defense, hunting, or just good old target practice. You should have to be 21(already in place for handguns) To a rifle. Should you be able to carry it concealed. Yes my dad carrys all the time but you need a CCW Permit to do and they run backround checks and all that other good shit before they actually give it too you.

Not everyone is as good as you. Of course having guns in your basement will give the pshycos a greater motivation to go on a rampage.

Not to mention the utter failures who will accidentaly shoot someone, or even themselves.

[Sugaree]

Not to mention the utter failures who will accidentaly shoot someone, or even themselves.

Except that is relatively easy to prevent given that you know what the fuck you're doing.

[StoppingTime]

Except that is relatively easy to prevent given that you know what the fuck you're doing.


But as of now, there really isn't any requirement of this, and having teens with guns and getting away with it (not necessarily you Robert, just in general), obviously can lead to problems.

[Professional Russian]

But as of now, there really isn't any requirement of this, and having teens with guns and getting away with it (not necessarily you Robert, just in general), obviously can lead to problems.

Not many people can convince their Parents to let them buy guns. And by the way I have taken a few courses and with the help of a few of my dads friend that were snipers and infantry men I have learned how responsible own, operate, and clean a gun and/or other weapons.

[Sporadica]

Because something that saves cops' lives is a waste of money.

Read the rest of my post. This is a program that has been proven to not have a beneficial effect with police forces. Many police have said that it is not accurate. For instance, I could legally have a rifle, and I don't have to store that rifle in my own house! So i could keep it at a friends house, the cop runs a check on the house, it says no guns in the house registered, and so the cop gets a false sense of confidence and something bad may happen. Also it was a waste of money on something that didn't work, if you actually researched it you would know that it didn't work. Simple as that, if it actually made cops lives safer than it'd be a good use of money, but in REALITY it was just the government pissing tax money away. Remember think in the real world and real events, not what the politicians said. They said it'd make it safer, but again, just pissing money away.

[Azunite]

Because something that saves cops' lives is a waste of money.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you think citizens will arm themselves to aid cops in their firefights?

[jackson94]

I hace an ecplosives licence. I can own any explosive i want. Aslong as i have the money

Oh god, someone who can't spell explosives (or many other words) has the right to have ANY explosive they want.

I don't want to live in this world anymore.

[Professional Russian]

Oh god, someone who can't spell explosives (or many other words) has the right to have ANY explosive they want.

I don't want to live in this world anymore.

Ya know i really hate when people point out i could nt spell something mostly because i was multi tasking. here Explosives. there spelled correctly.

[Genghis Khan]

Ya know i really hate when people point out i could nt spell something mostly because i was multi tasking.

Stop masturbating then.

[Professional Russian]

Stop masturbating then.

How'd You KNow? no i was actually eating at the time. I remember exactly what i was eating. a 12" steak hoagie all right. And i forgot hoagie is a pittsbughese term um um big assed long sandwhich there we go.

[Genghis Khan]

I remember exactly what i was eating. a 12" steak hoagie all right.

Ohh so that's what they call it these days... mmm, 12" steak hoagie, that works.

man this next generation just keeps getting kinkier

[Professional Russian]

Ohh so that's what they call it these days... mmm, 12" steak hoagie, that works.

man this next generation just keeps getting kinkier

Hey thats a pittsburghese term. Im aloud to use i live here. I forgot though. HEHE