Seat Belts

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Should we have to wear seat belts? Shouldn't it be my own choice to get into a car wreck and die? My not wearing a seat belt is not endangering anyone but myself. I suppose I could be launched out of windshield and knock someone over but the probability of that is probably very low. Besides the more people that die in car crashes, the less pensions, etc the government will have to pay. I suppose their should at least be a law that you have to be a certain age before you're given the option to wear it or not. Otherwise parents would become careless and end up not strapping in their new born. Well what do you think?

[Skeptical Bear]

Ummmm I'd have to disagree. Everyone should wear a seat belt. I'm sure it's not pulling people away from their main freedoms. I don't think just because someone's having a bad day, they should have the permission to remove their seat belt and hope to fly out of the windshield.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Ummmm I'd have to disagree. Everyone should wear a seat belt. I'm sure it's not pulling people away from their main freedoms. I don't think just because someone's having a bad day, they should have the permission to remove their seat belt and hope to fly out of the windshield.

What exactly is a "main freedom"? The fact that I am being forced to do something I don't want to do upsets me. Why should anyone be allowed to tell me what to do?

[Commander Thor]

It's a three inch wide piece of material that can save your life. What's the big deal?
The reason the law even exists is to protect people from their own stupidity. Otherwise, quite a few people wouldn't wear them, and die. You like living, right? Then wear it for christs sake.
Would you like a switch to turn off your airbags as well?
How about your anti-lock brakes? Power steering? Traction control? After all, who needs saftey!?!

[PerpetualImperfexion]

It's a three inch wide piece of material that can save your life. What's the big deal?
The reason the law even exists is to protect people from their own stupidity. Otherwise, quite a few people wouldn't wear them, and die. You like living, right? Then wear it for christs sake.
Would you like a switch to turn off your airbags as well?
How about your anti-lock brakes? Power steering? Traction control? After all, who needs saftey!?!

Have you ever realized that there are a lot of people who don't where seat belts anyway? Most of my family doesn't. None of them have died. And yes I think we should have the option to turn off all of these features. Some cars actually do have to option to turn off the air bags. You don't even legally have to have an airbag in your car to drive it so this is completely different.

[Amnesiac]

It's a trivial issue, but yes, I agree with you. People should have the right to be as irrational as they want. However, issues come into play concerning children. Overall, though, it's not a big deal – if you want to talk about individual liberties, there are much bigger fish to fry. I would hardly call the issue of mandatory seatbelts important in any way; it's not even a threat to individual rights. It's a non-issue. It's certainly not the kind of thing that we need clogging up state legislatures.

[Skeptical Bear]

What exactly is a "main freedom"? The fact that I am being forced to do something I don't want to do upsets me. Why should anyone be allowed to tell me what to do?

Freedom of speech, press, practice own religion and much more that has nothing to do with a law that simply says to wear a seat belt.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Freedom of speech, press, practice own religion and much more that has nothing to do with a law that simply says to wear a seat belt.

Actually freedom of speech also covers your actions. Like I said (or at least I think I said this) we should technically be able to do what ever we want as long as we aren't endangering others.

[Skeptical Bear]

I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's necessary at best. No matter if you're endangering someone or not. No one deserves to die at the cost of "I can do what ever I want So I'll take my seat belt off." If you're in the back seat and the driver and driving at a slow speed, than yeah. I'd put it on in the front though.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's necessary at best. No matter if you're endangering someone or not. No one deserves to die at the cost of "I can do what ever I want So I'll take my seat belt off." If you're in the back seat and the driver and driving at a slow speed, than yeah. I'd put it on in the front though.

Hmmm I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Perhaps we should replace the air bag with a machete then no one would drive over 5 miles per hour.

[User_Does Not Exist]

They're there for safety, not many of us are wanting to risk being projected out of a window, doesn't seem pleasant. As far as the law goes yes, there is far more good than harm that comes from it. It saves lives but you might get a broken collar bone. I know in TX we had a law stating that after 18 as long as you were in the back seat, you did have the option to wear the seatbelt or not.

As far as the airbag comment goes, that could be optional, I've been hit by them 3x they are by no means the slightest bit comfortable. Yes they do more good than harm but the harm they do can be very serious/fatal.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

Should we have to wear seat belts? Shouldn't it be my own choice to get into a car wreck and die? My not wearing a seat belt is not endangering anyone but myself. I suppose I could be launched out of windshield and knock someone over but the probability of that is probably very low. Besides the more people that die in car crashes, the less pensions, etc the government will have to pay. I suppose their should at least be a law that you have to be a certain age before you're given the option to wear it or not. Otherwise parents would become careless and end up not strapping in their new born. Well what do you think?

My cousin died because she wasn't wearing her seat belt. She was 11. She was way too young to die, and there is nobody on this planet who wouldn't be sad about losing someone close to them. I always wear my seat belt and tell everyone who doesn't to start. If everyone is forced to wear seat belts, the government will make money off of law breakers and will prevent deaths in car accidents. It should be required.

[dead]

It's a good source of revenue and if anything I think that you should only be allowed to not wear it if you are over 21. Apart from that I think it should be completely required.

[kenoloor]

It's a trivial issue, but yes, I agree with you. People should have the right to be as irrational as they want. However, issues come into play concerning children. Overall, though, it's not a big deal – if you want to talk about individual liberties, there are much bigger fish to fry. I would hardly call the issue of mandatory seatbelts important in any way; it's not even a threat to individual rights. It's a non-issue. It's certainly not the kind of thing that we need clogging up state legislatures.

This. There are legitimate issues that are truly concerning, causing this one to be extremely not concerning.

[Genghis Khan]

I don't think issues should be arbitrarily made out of rules like these just so you can make a case for individual rights. It's socially beneficial, it can save lives, just deal with it.

[TeddyBearRock]

Yes, they are the thing that keep us from flying into the window screen! I could understand why they didnt have to where them back in the day coz drivers then are alot better than today, today we are terrible divers.

[Desuetude]

Have you ever realized that there are a lot of people who don't where seat belts anyway? Most of my family doesn't. None of them have died. And yes I think we should have the option to turn off all of these features. Some cars actually do have to option to turn off the air bags. You don't even legally have to have an airbag in your car to drive it so this is completely different.

Okay and they haven't died yet... not saying that they're going to but seatbelts are there incase of a crash. It's a pretty rubbish argument to say, I don't wear a seat belt and haven't died therefore whats the problem? Im fine not wearing one.
To be honest it's your choice. Wear the damn 3 cm bit of material when you're in a car or don't. It could be the differnce between life and death or i might not have any impact on it whatsoever. Like said above this really isn't a big deal when there are other bigger matters that are out there.

[dead]

Might as well legalize all drugs and get rid of required safety requirements.

[project_icarus]

Yes, they are the thing that keep us from flying into the window screen! I could understand why they didnt have to where them back in the day coz drivers then are alot better than today, today we are terrible divers.

I definitely disagree. The time has nothing to do with how good a driver's skills are. Seatbelts were not required in, the 70's and (much) earlier because seatbelts weren't proven to increase the likelyhood of a fatality in a motor vehicle accident.
Also, seatbelts were only introduced in 1958, made a requirement not too long following.

Seatbelts are an important safety feature. The Queensland Government (of Australia) has launched a campaign (http://hereforlife.qld.gov.au/Campaigns/Seatbelts), Here for Life, with a very graphic demonstration of what a seatbelts actually does in the event (however likely or unlikely) of an accident.
While I'm on the campaign, the Share My Story section of the campaign. Just a quick thing I had a little read through. (http://hereforlife.qld.gov.au/sharemystory/stories/view/Luck-must-run-out)
Sure, you can argue that you should be able to do whatever unless you're having an effect on someone else. Thing is, directly or indirectly, you are affecting other people. Things such as smoking & drugs. You smoke, hanging around smokers long enough can be a contributing factor to cancers. Anyway back to seatbelts. You have an accident, windshield cannon the hell out of that car and die, then what happens? You're the one that's died, and any passengers that may've died. That's only the people that've been directly effected.

Think of your family, and people that associate with you. Friends, coworkers, etc. All those people will only be indirectly effected, but the thing is that they are being effected even though you're the one that's died.

[StoppingTime]

Might as well legalize all drugs and get rid of required safety requirements.

What does that have to do with the argument?

I do think that people should have the right to choose whether they want to put their life at risk or not, but then what happens? A kid sees it, and then he never buckles his seat belt (which takes all of five seconds). Then, his parents get into an accident, and he dies because he wasn't wearing the seat belt because he didn't think it was necessary, because his parents didn't.

But as others said, there are much bigger problems that are similar to this, and really, how hard is it to buckle something that could save your life?

[kenoloor]

Then, his parents get into an accident, and he dies because he wasn't wearing the seat belt because he didn't think it was necessary, because his parents didn't.

So? It's called learning from consequences.

[StoppingTime]

So? It's called learning from consequences.

By the death of a child?

[kenoloor]

By the death of a child?

Oh I'm sorry, is death not considered a consequence? Or is it because it's the death of a child?

[StoppingTime]

Oh I'm sorry, is death not considered a consequence? Or is it because it's the death of a child?

Either way, you think they'd have to let someone (anyone), die in order to prove that they are clearly an important safety measure?

[kenoloor]

Either way, you think they'd have to let someone (anyone), die in order to prove that they are clearly an important safety measure?

No. I was merely suggesting that it is a legitimate consequence.

[StoppingTime]

No. I was merely suggesting that it is a legitimate consequence.

Well yes, I guess that would teach them.

[ImCoolBeans]

I'm completely indifferent and I don't really care if it's mandatory or if it's not. I wear it because it really does save lives, and I don't want to be that dude flying through a windshield on the highway.

Also, just throwing this out there, you would probably feel completely different if you had ever lost someone close in a car accident who was not wearing a seatbelt.

[Electra Heart]

I wear my seatbelt, because I don't want to die. But the thing is, I've seen people in the ER who have gone flying out of their windshields and scraping off their faces because they weren't wearing seat belts. However, I've ALSO seen people get their fucking guts squeezed out, and/or the seatbelt simply didn't work. Usually though, wearing seat belts is the better option.

[DerBear]

We seroiously having this debate?

It saves lives.
You Enjoy Living?
Wear one?

This to me seems like an issue that people some how care about because its "forcing".
You are forced to pay taxes from the moment you are born to the second you die. we complain about that, but majoirty if not all of us pay them.

Seat belts save lives.
End.

[Gordo]

They don't have them on motorcycles.
Or school buses.
And I don't see all passengers in a parade wearing them.

I feel weird if i don't have it on, but for those that don't wanna wear it just get ur windows tinted and ur good to go.

[MeltedCrayon]

Wear Seatbelts inless u wanna die..... THAT IS ALL XD

[kenoloor]

Wear Seatbelts inless u wanna die..... THAT IS ALL XD

> doesn't wear seat belt
> will undoubtedly die

[-]logic.[/-]

lolno

[Amaryllis]

If you sit at the back without a seatbelt, in the case of an accident, you could come flying front, side, back and everywhere - potentially killing the others in the car. This happens regularly (Coming from someone who used to see dying bodies and severed limbs on the highway every other day. Malaysia isn't the safest place.)

The death and casualties of millions is not in the economy's or the human race's best interests. The government and everyone else needs you to earn money or contribute to society in one way or another. We need the poor as much as the wealthy. And for the human race to carry on, we need your sperms and eggs.

[Pepito]

[QUOTE=Amaryllis;1644328]If you sit at the back without a seatbelt, in the case of an accident, you could come flying front, side, back and everywhere - potentially killing the others in the car. This happens regularly (Coming from someone who used to see dying bodies and severed limbs on the highway every other day. Malaysia isn't the safest place.)

Yes that is very true and was proven by scientific experiments.
So basically if you don`t wear your seatbelt you don`t just put yourself at risk but other people in the car as well.

[lipstick_kisses23]

you know what the road signs say! Click it or Ticket!

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Might as well legalize all drugs and get rid of required safety requirements.

Off topic, but as long as no one but yourself is being harmed, I agree.

It takes a split second to click into place. Plus it sets a bad example for kids when adults aren't wearing their seatbelts.

Yep kids are definetly a problem

I'm completely indifferent and I don't really care if it's mandatory or if it's not. I wear it because it really does save lives, and I don't want to be that dude flying through a windshield on the highway.

Also, just throwing this out there, you would probably feel completely different if you had ever lost someone close in a car accident who was not wearing a seatbelt.

I personally haven't lost anyone close but me elder sister has.

They don't have them on motorcycles.
Or school buses.
And I don't see all passengers in a parade wearing them.

I feel weird if i don't have it on, but for those that don't wanna wear it just get ur windows tinted and ur good to go.

Good point, school buses and motor-cycles don't have seat belts, what's the exception there?

> doesn't wear seat belt
> will undoubtedly die

[-]logic.[/-]

lolno

true story

you know what the road signs say! Click it or Ticket!

It seems to me that the government is more interested in making money than in actual safety. My question is, do they make more money from the tickets or from less pensions they have to pay out do to the death rate. I couldn't find any statistic on either of those topics, anyone else have any luck?

BTW: I almost always wear a seat-belt. The only time I don't is when I'm in a large truck or other vehicle. I just think I and everyone else should have the right to choose not to without being afraid of getting a ticket. Too many replies on this have been telling me and others to where a seat belt when it isn't the point.

[DerBear]

Off topic, but as long as no one but yourself is being harmed, I agree.



Yep kids are definetly a problem



I personally haven't lost anyone close but me elder sister has.



Good point, school buses and motor-cycles don't have seat belts, what's the exception there?



true story



It seems to me that the government is more interested in making money than in actual safety. My question is, do they make more money from the tickets or from less pensions they have to pay out do to the death rate. I couldn't find any statistic on either of those topics, anyone else have any luck?

BTW: I almost always wear a seat-belt. The only time I don't is when I'm in a large truck or other vehicle. I just think I and everyone else should have the right to choose not to without being afraid of getting a ticket. Too many replies on this have been telling me and others to where a seat belt when it isn't the point.

Look, you don't wear a seat if you do not want to, personally I could not care less if you want to die in a car crash.

The point I and many others have to make is because, it saves lives we should ware one. Is that so HARD to understand. The reason the goverment has made it a law is because it saves lives. The only people who are excempt from this law is sometimes police and Taxi drivers due to obvious reasons.

They save lives.

Just becuase your forced to wear them, is for your OWN good.

You are the first person to question WHY we wear them and not accept the obvious answer.

If you dont want to wear one accept the tickets you get and move on.

Honestly some people these days.

[dead]

Do you know anything about how buses are built and the reasoning behind why they don't have seatbelts?

You should just tell him.

[Incompris]

My opinion has recently changed. There were some teens driven at like 70mi/h and cut a corner and rolled a couple of times. The passenger wasnt wearing there seat belt and was ejected. He broke his neck and now he cant move his legs. I dont think 5 minutes of fun was worth the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Look, you don't wear a seat if you do not want to, personally I could not care less if you want to die in a car crash.

The point I and many others have to make is because, it saves lives we should ware one. Is that so HARD to understand. The reason the goverment has made it a law is because it saves lives. The only people who are excempt from this law is sometimes police and Taxi drivers due to obvious reasons.

They save lives.

Just becuase your forced to wear them, is for your OWN good.

You are the first person to question WHY we wear them and not accept the obvious answer.

If you dont want to wear one accept the tickets you get and move on.

Honestly some people these days.

http://bit.ly/wbaEPv, I'm obviously not the first person to question this.

Large buses distribute forces differently than cars, which causes much less force to passengers during a collision. In addition with that, school buses use compartmentalization aka the high energy-absorbing seat backs.

Alright that explains buses, but what about motorcycles?

My opinion has recently changed. There were some teens driven at like 70mi/h and cut a corner and rolled a couple of times. The passenger wasnt wearing there seat belt and was ejected. He broke his neck and now he cant move his legs. I dont think 5 minutes of fun was worth the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

That's different. First of all the car flipped over and he was going 70 mph. He probably would have received a serious injury either way. Secondly why would you wear a seat belt when your on a joy ride. If you're purposefully speeding in a car you obviously don't care about your own safety and as far as law enforcement is concerned you have worse things to worry about than a seat belt ticket.

[cdude22]

what and who is it going to harm if you didnt put your seatbelt on? you, your family, friends and anyone who knew you. who would it harm if you did put your seatbelt on? no one. what is the point of not putting one on?

[MJohn]

Just f*cking wear seat belts.

[StoppingTime]

Just f*cking wear seat belts.

This kind of defeats the purpose of a debate, don't 'ya think?

[kenoloor]

Just f*cking wear seat belts.

If you're not going to substantiate your opinion, sharing it serves no purpose and gives it no validity.

[DerBear]

Do you know this thread is so fucking American "seat belts are uncostitutional"


Do me a favor! its a few fucking inches of material that saves live

LIVE WITH ITor
DIE without it

[StoppingTime]

Do you know this thread is so fucking American "seat belts are uncostitutional"


Do me a favor! its a few fucking inches of material that saves live

]LIVE WITH ITor
DIE without it

Logic=not here. :P

You aren't guaranteed dead without a seatbelt, but yes, I think for the safety of others, you should be required to wear one.

[CuriousDestruction]

to me, you don't wear a seatbelt you are setting an example for others not to wear a seatbelt, children in particular. If they don't wear seatbelts and don't understand the dangers of not doing so that can be a really bad thing. If a person is doing heroin, beyond the legal aspects of this, this can send a message to someone like a teenager that heroin is cool and therefore they should try it. But they have no idea how dangerous it is. Sounds farfetched I know but with some of the public education systems I've seen, it happens.

[DerBear]

Logic=not here. :P

You aren't guaranteed dead without a seatbelt, but yes, I think for the safety of others, you should be required to wear one.

Well of course you wont always die but it has a high rate that you will die/severly injure.

[Korashk]

Why do so many of you assume that people wouldn't wear seatbelts unless the government forced them to do so? I doubt he laws requiring them do anything to keep people safe. All the laws do is make the government spend unneeded money on commercials and have cops give you bullshit tickets.

As for children, I don't know about you but my mom/dad wouldn't even turn on the car unless I was buckled in. Sure, I guess it's sad if a kid dies because they weren't buckled in, but I'd put that death more on the parent's head than the government's in the absence of seatbelt legislation.

[Jean Poutine]

Nobody's whining about laws making drunk driving illegal. Or even laws banning texting while driving. Perhaps not wearing a seat belt isn't as dangerous as those two to other people, but believe me when I say receiving a human missile to the face can be hazardous to your health. I know since I transform people in human missiles every day as part of my sadistic hobby and I've received a few in the face myself.

The way I see it, it's not really about keeping somebody from doing something with legislation, because murder is prohibited, so is theft or punching people in the gonads and yet that still happens every day. It's simply being able to condemn either dangerous, antisocial or plain ol' stupid behavior and to apply a penalty that corresponds to the offense in the interest of fairness. Nobody keeps you from doing the particular action, have fun doing it. There's just a price attached to it.

Kinda like yellow and red cards in football. They don't keep Zidane from headbutting Italian players but since he's done it, there has to be a price to pay for it. Anything else would be unfair, illogical and kinda ridiculous. And hey, if the thought of a ticket keeps somebody buckled up - more power to 'em.

[Erasmus]

No, it should be the law to wear seat belts to protect people from their own stupidity.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

No, it should be the law to wear seat belts to protect people from their own stupidity.

Sorry, but the government isn't here to tell me what to do. If I choose not to wear my seat belt that is my choice. They can protect me from the barbarians who may or may not try to invade the country or the criminals that would be walking the streets, but otherwise I can pretty much fend for myself.

[Jean Poutine]

Sorry, but the government isn't here to tell me what to do. If I choose not to wear my seat belt that is my choice. They can protect me from the barbarians who may or may not try to invade the country or the criminals that would be walking the streets, but otherwise I can pretty much fend for myself.

Um, no. Your choice goes much farther than your own little belly button.

Don't wear your seatbelt. Get in a crash. In the event that your brains and guts are splattered everywhere it's up to the State to pay to get your innards out of there. They pay...with my money.

If you live and break your skull or something and you're either on Medicaid or living in a country with universal health care, then it's up to the State to pay for your treatments. They pay...with my money.

And hey, if you crash into another passenger while you're busy flying all over the place, I'm pretty sure you're going to affect their life in a quite negative way.

Not to mention all the money wasted by the State to send rescue teams, ferry your butt to the nearest hospital and clean up the car debris. Which is again paid by me. Hey, perhaps somebody who's accident was actually not their fault would have needed that ambulance! Foot the bill, fully, for all of this, then we'll talk.

"Your" decision will affect somebody else in the long run. Lots of somebody elses. Maybe you're never going to get in a crash, who knows? However, I think it's patently unfair and extremely selfish to get us to potentially pay for your dumb self-entitled ass were you to fly outta the windshield because you were too much of an immature, pseudo-libertarian prick to realize the consequences of your seemingly innocent choice. We all say it happens only to others, until I get pissed off cheap booze and fishtail your car into a ditch.

What was it that Nozick said again? Something about being completely free to enjoy everything you are entitled to enjoy, to the extent where you don't keep others from doing the same thing. Putting yourself deliberately in danger sure keeps people from enjoying their own freedoms, once you put two seconds of thought into the idea.

[Gordo]

We have air bags and how about avoiding collisions?

I'm not satisfied with the lack of them on school buses either. If they are such a valued device then they should be an option. If a school bus flips, seat backs that absorb energy aren't very helpful.

[DerBear]

1. You can't always avoid a collision i.e. when someone is about to crash into you head on.

2. Air bags aren't alternatives to seatbelts. What if you're not in the right position to be protected by air bags? A side impact or a roll-over? They won't help you at all.

Also they will not always deploy.
My firend was in a car colision and they did not deploy.

[ShootingStar]

Jus wear your seatbelt...it takes half a second to put it on..it's not even worth arguing about! It's jus people wanting to something to moan about. I understand if it took twenty minutes to fasten an intricate safety harness, but half a second? I think I'd rather stay alive thanks, an if the idiot in the back seat of the car wanted to not bother with a seatbelt, an came flying into the back of my seat an killed me, I would NOT be impressed! ss...x

[plebble]

Just wear your seat belt and deal with it... it's a good law

[double r]

Yea, and it will save your life one day

[Texas warrior]

If you feel like taken' the risk, then go for it, I mean it is your life right?

[Weber_Swagg]

It's just common sense it's so simple and it saves lives. There's a law because people don't use common sense and die because of it. However sometimes the seatbelt can cause death.

[RoseyCadaver]

I feel that a child should have to wear a safety belt, but I do think to an age an adult shouldn't have to be forced to wear a seat built.

I personally have no problem with them, and I wear mine all the time(I feel naked with out it lol) but I couldn't honestly care less if someone else didn't want to wear their safety belt. That being said, I do find it silly not to wear because it can help you avoid a lot of self damage if there were to be a said wreck.

But nah I don't think they should be forced to wear it.

[AbbaZabba]

It's a good law, saves life. If I hit you because it's my fault, I get sued because you died. Wear it and you live. One, that alone saves money and two, I don't have to live with killing someone. Plenty of money saving points, but why would you want to die?