Marijuana

[organickush]

should it be legal? give your opinion

[shadowhunter320]

yes.

[Can'tHelpIt]

Hell NO, people would go ccrazy use it spend all their money and send our economy crashing down

[ImCoolBeans]

Hell NO, people would go ccrazy use it spend all their money and send our economy crashing down

Well actually, you're very far off. From an economic point of view - it would be taxed heavily and would give our economy a nice boost. A new industry, y'know? Well it's already an industry, but not one that our government can profit off of yet.

Coming from a stoners point of view, no - it should not be legalized. The heavy taxes will drive the prices up and the quality will likely decline.

But economically speaking, it would do wonders - hopefully.

[organickush]

Well actually, you're very far off. From an economic point of view - it would be taxed heavily and would give our economy a nice boost. A new industry, y'know? Well it's already an industry, but not one that our government can profit off of yet.

Coming from a stoners point of view, no - it should not be legalized. The heavy taxes will drive the prices up and the quality will likely decline.

But economically speaking, it would do wonders - hopefully.

agreed, but I feel that stoners would be willing to pay more, and because it is regulated, good quality marijuana would be grown

[Jupiter]

yes.

great job explaining your case.

yes it should be. i think that people have the right to do things like that, but yeah, some restrictions should be set, just like how there are for drinking.

[aperson444]

Yes, because there are fewer negative health effects than alcohol -- and if millions can consume alcohol, which has been proven time and time again to be a quite dangerous drug, then I think that people are intelligent enough to use marijuana safely. Furthermore, eradicating a natural product sounds wrong and when the government tries to step in and protect us from ourselves, it's also wrong.

The FDA and the DEA have ignored mountains of evidence that suggest that marijuana is relatively benign and possibly the answer to our prayers for the next generation of anti-emetic, neuroprotective agents. Furthermore, there is evidence suggesting that Marinol and Nabilone (synthetic cannabinoids, the former being synthetic THC) are not effective and even dangerous to patients. Cannabis in its herbal form has been used as medicine and recreation for over a millennium, and unlike opium, there have been virtually no reports of severe addiction until marijuana was actually made illegal (at which point it was more of a political issue than a public health one). It appalls me that such a benign substance with possibly beneficial effects (neuroprotective, neurogenerative, anti-inflammatory, vasodilating) and a few negative effects (perhaps increased risk of psychotic symptoms, acute cognitive impairment and lung problems not including cancers) is illegal while vastly dangerous substances are quite well accepted and in some cases drafted into the pharmaceutical market with very little comprehensive evidence of benefit vs risk.

Hell NO, people would go ccrazy use it spend all their money and send our economy crashing down

That's actually a moot point, because the economy is cyclic. Increased domestic expenditure actually stimulates the economy. This is a well known model of capitalism. Most economists agree with it. Regardless, your theory is wrong. Legalization (not decriminalization) would pull an entire market out of the dark. Street level dealers and shady underworld growers would have to go legitimate. Trying to work around taxes (tax evasion) would be stupid. There are very few large scale tax evasion operations involved with alcohol. Is moonshine sold in the USA? Sure. Does it make a whole lot of money relative to say, Eastern Europe where alcohol is strictly regulated? No. Instead of focusing massive amounts of cash on arresting and prosecuting marijuana growers, users and traffickers, we should promote domestic production that generates tax revenue. We should utilize police resources to prevent tax evasion, illegal sales and driving under the influence. We should allocate funding to education programs and harm reduction programs. We should vastly increase penalties for driving under the influence (of any substance).

Some people argue that the quality of marijuana would drop. This is just not true. There are thousands of grey-market marijuana growers already in operation in California and other medical marijuana states. This is on top of many black-market domestic growers, some of whom I know very well personally. If we let them sell to marijuana retailers (who would pay a tax) and tax their revenue, both parties would benefit. If we mandate a rigorous quality control system, we can prevent people from labeling ditch weed as medical grade. There are already many analytical laboratories doing assays on medical marijuana to determine cannabinoid ratios and analyze for dangerous contaminants. Why not let them go legit as well?

Others argue that public health costs will outweigh the possible economic benefits. My question is: What the fuck are you talking about? If you're worried about traffic accidents, then fine the living hell out of people who drive under the influence (and are caught doing it). Bar them from purchasing marijuana from stores (computers make this a lot easier). Worried about rehab? You're retarded. Rehab happens most of the time through pressure from a judge. Trust me, if you legalize marijuana, there will be a drop in rehab admissions for marijuana. I've been through that situation personally with many of my friends. You can pick between probation/jail or a rehab program. What would most teens with their whole lives ahead of them pick? Treat "marijuana addicts" as a public health problem. If an infraction involving marijuana is committed, then admit them to a panel of social workers, psychologists, doctors and legal experts. In Portugal, this is already working. These panels will determine whether the defendant needs treatment or not.

Seriously, there are millions of Americans who smoke marijuana. Most are actually normal, hard-working people (not stereotypical stoners). They are doctors, plumbers, lawyers, scientists, judges, landscapers and factory workers. If you know a single thing about how drug-crimes work in the US, you will know that a single drug offense can turn your record into utter shit. Especially if you are charged with distribution or possession of over an ounce (marijuana) as a minor. It can ruin your life and keep you from college, a career and even a decent place to live. Legalization would clearly make it harder for (stupid) kids to get weed. Would they still find a way to get some? Sure. But no longer will it be as easy as visiting your local dealer Bob.

[KidImage]

I believe it should just for the fact that it will get rid of the drug dealers. If you think about it, would give the economy a great boost.

[kenoloor]

Yeah man, we needed another one of these threads. It's been what, two weeks since someone last posted about legalizing marijuana.

Anyway:

Coming from a stoners point of view, no - it should not be legalized. The heavy taxes will drive the prices up and the quality will likely decline.

This is, in a nutshell, why I think it should stay illegal.

If marijuana were legalized, prices would skyrocket. The government would be all like, "oh hey, bigass industry, let's maximize our profits by dumping a fuckton of tax onto it." Weed suddenly becomes a huge-ass investment, more so than it is now.

And if the government is producing marijuana, you really think it's going time be as good as creepy Ralph from down the street who grows in his basement and experiments with different combinations to find that sweet spot of sticky nastiness? Fuck no. The government will want to maximize output, and in order to gain quantity, they're more than likely going to have to sacrifice quality. That's no good.

All of that being said, I think it should be decriminalized as long as the person who's doing it isn't hurting anyone else.

[Sonic Boom]

I am going to assume that marijuana production will be open to anyone with a license if it were legalized.

Firstly, there would be the establishment of many different marijuana brands, all of them competing. Brands that sell cheaper, bad quality stuff and brands that sell premium quality etc. Just like in the alcohol industry.

Secondly, they would all have to compete for customers who are used to good quality stuff that is not very expensive, and so these companies would engage in further research and mass production to reduce the cost of cultivating and processing marijuana per unit, while keeping quality the same or even better.

These larger marijuana corporations will have the financial resources and scientific intellectual capacity to do so, compared to some poor guy hiding in a basement.
This could possibly cancel out the tax effects of higher prices and lower quality.

Finally, this potential mega-industry will provide millions of jobs worldwide, which means more salaries and further tax revenue for governments.

Do you agree with this?

[Mortal Coil]

Yes. Legalization will make it cleaner and more reliable, and the ability to tax the shit out of it will boost the economy.

[aperson444]

And if the government is producing marijuana, you really think it's going time be as good as creepy Ralph from down the street who grows in his basement and experiments with different combinations to find that sweet spot of sticky nastiness? Fuck no. The government will want to maximize output, and in order to gain quantity, they're more than likely going to have to sacrifice quality. That's no good.


I doubt that will happen. In the end people have a choice to buy what they want. Now making the marijuana industry state controlled is a different matter. That's a bad idea. However, if we legalize the production, sale, possession and use of cannabis, it will be a hell of a lot easier to grow your own weed. I've mentioned this in another thread, but there's already a very booming industry for medical marijuana. Growers can make a living off of it. The price would drop minimally. Legal marijuana will shift the demand curve of the industry to compensate the shift in the supply curve. Legal marijuana will allow people to grow their own. The supplies required are minimal. A 400 W HPS light, some soil, a germination kit, a few seeds are all that's needed. Given the time and dedication, it's fairly easy for mom and pop growers to sell to retailers. I wouldn't be surprised that some of those operations would go commercial, but I doubt there would be a decline in quality. There's a sweet spot for quality and quantity. If you grow too many plants, you're overwhelmed with not being able to give individual attention to each plant (indoor cannabis operations are extremely sensitive to the plant's own status). Grow too little and you aren't yielding enough bud to turn a significant profit. In general, most individual and small-scale growers in the medical marijuana business have found that sweet spot. Legalization would remove constraints to size (growers are legally bound by limits on the number of plants they can grow and significant operations run the risk of being raided by federal agents). They would by able to figure out that sweet spot. Any small time grower with a grain of capital investment will be able to hit that economic sweet spot that minimizes cost (between economies and diseconomies of scale). Unlike alcohol, which requires substantial equipment to produce on a large scale (you need temperature control, fermentation vats and if you want to distill, you need a very expensive and very sleek distillation apparatus), marijuana requires basic knowledge and a capital investment that's well within the yearly salary of most employed persons in the USA.

Furthermore, there's not going to be anyone pointing a gun at you forcing you to buy a brick of nasty hempseed schwag. The majority of the cannabis using crowd will prefer the middle ground, while the medicinal and higher end crowd will prefer the top shelf stuff. Addressing the tax issue, I took into account the national average for liquor taxes. It's about $6.75 per gallon of distilled spirits (depends from state to state). In addition, many states have a registration fee. Considering that a pound of high end marijuana is equivalent to a gallon of 40% ABV triple-distilled vodka, I would say that this tax is a bit small. Even with a $1000 registration fee. Even taxation by the ounce would yield $108 per pound. I think that the moment you decide to sell the marijuana you grow, you should face the tax -- if it's a substantial amount. The retailer should cover the bulk of the tax (the tax is on the transaction, not the production or purchase of the product). If someone grows their own stuff, I think the government should stay out of it. Perhaps a tax bracket system could be set up. Table wine is taxed less than distilled spirits. What if we do the opposite? What if we tax lower quality materials higher than high quality materials? Obviously marijuana testing should be mandatory. Most labs today charge about $50 per sample (1 sample = 1 batch tested = About 1 gram of a single batch). If the THC/CBD/CBN content is labeled on the product, consumers know what they're getting. Medical patients can either buy garden batches from growers who grow many different strains to cater to both recreational and medicinal users or they can purchase standardized strains and/or extracts from a grower that grows a plant with consistent THC/CBD/CBN readouts. Recreational users will have the same liberty. I don't think price will go down or up considerably. Quite minimally perhaps. It might even go up (taxes can drive prices up), but it won't have an impact on overall quality. It will have an impact on the spectrum of quality, but quality control and strict regulation of quality can ensure that consumers know what they buy. Based off of trends in the medical marijuana business (much of which is dominated by recreational users), people seem to prefer the top shelf to the lower grades. Lower grade stuff in dispensary is equal to mid grade stuff on the street. Opening up the market might initially cause a price spike, but eventually competition (marijuana is very difficult to form a monopoly or oligopoly on because the product is very diverse) will drive prices down to an acceptable equilibrium that I suspect will be at or slightly lower than what we see for high-quality street marijuana today.

[Steve Jobs]

I think, economically speaking we need to see the wider impact on society than government revenue and availability. Marijuana should be used responsibly and not thrown on the streets to the average kid. Like alcohol, you should not be able to drive or operate machinery while under the influence of it.
I'd like to see heavier penalties on committing crimes and such, while under the influence of it. Drop healthcare for treatment caused by the consumption of it.
Then maybe.

[shadowhunter320]

great job explaining your case.

yes it should be. i think that people have the right to do things like that, but yeah, some restrictions should be set, just like how there are for drinking.

i dont have anything to say but yes.

[kenoloor]

i dont have anything to say but yes.

If you're not going to explain/defend your opinion, there is no purpose in posting it.

@aperson444 and your bigass wall of text - I was operating under the assumption that it would become a government business and not remain a private one. If a "growers' license" system were implemented, that would be much better than some government schmucks taking over the industry and I wouldn't object to it being legalized in that instance.

However, I still stand by my initial opinion. In my ideal situation, I'd really rather that the government just stay out of it when it comes to my drugs. However some sort of licensing system would certainly make the issue much more manageable were it to be legalized. I think I repeated myself like 7 times, but you get the idea.

[antiabort]

Yeah man, we needed another one of these threads. It's been what, two weeks since someone last posted about legalizing marijuana.

Anyway:



This is, in a nutshell, why I think it should stay illegal.

If marijuana were legalized, prices would skyrocket. The government would be all like, "oh hey, bigass industry, let's maximize our profits by dumping a fuckton of tax onto it." Weed suddenly becomes a huge-ass investment, more so than it is now.

And if the government is producing marijuana, you really think it's going time be as good as creepy Ralph from down the street who grows in his basement and experiments with different combinations to find that sweet spot of sticky nastiness? Fuck no. The government will want to maximize output, and in order to gain quantity, they're more than likely going to have to sacrifice quality. That's no good.

All of that being said, I think it should be decriminalized as long as the person who's doing it isn't hurting anyone else.


Yea man let's ruin people's lives and make prisons even more overcrowded!

[Korashk]

@aperson444 and your bigass wall of text - I was operating under the assumption that it would become a government business and not remain a private one.
Why would you be operating under that absurd assumption? Especially when talking about countries in the first world.

[Amaryllis]

It depends on what your definition of the definition of legalised is. Sell it in the supermarket next to the broccoli and parsley? Probably not. Give limited, monitored, carefully packaged and checked packages to people of an appropriate age? Slim perhaps.

The motion of legalising marijuana is of course, a complex and controversial one. However, arguments for the legalisation of marijuana stand on a slippery slope.

Legalised gambling has not reduced illegal gambling. So legalised marijuana probably won't reduce illegal marijuana trafficking. Marijuana dependance and abuse is only second to alcohol. Legalising it would not be in society's best interests. As the number of marijuana users will inevitably increase.

So no, legalising marijuana is not in our best interests.

[aperson444]

It depends on what your definition of the definition of legalised is. Sell it in the supermarket next to the broccoli and parsley? Probably not. Give limited, monitored, carefully packaged and checked packages to people of an appropriate age? Slim perhaps.

The motion of legalising marijuana is of course, a complex and controversial one. However, arguments for the legalisation of marijuana stand on a slippery slope.

Legalised gambling has not reduced illegal gambling. So legalised marijuana probably won't reduce illegal marijuana trafficking. Marijuana dependance and abuse is only second to alcohol. Legalising it would not be in society's best interests. As the number of marijuana users will inevitably increase.

So no, legalising marijuana is not in our best interests

I remember a very famous man made this argument that illegal gambling has not been reduced. I think he was a member of the Dow family (one of the leading families of the chemical industry). Anyways, marijuana and gambling are different issues. Cannabis users are highly dependent on quality and price. Marijuana trafficking would cease to be feasible. First off, commercial marijuana is generally produced in a large amount and with little care given to quality. Secondly, a legal competitive market would eliminate the need for marijuana trafficking. Who would want to buy some crappy import weed when you could go over to the cannabis shop and grab an ounce of mid to high grade domestic bud without going through various shadowy dealers? Would you rather ring up Skinny Pete and ask for an ounce of the finest smuggled brick, wait for him to drive over, look around nervously and possibly threaten you with a dull, yet intimidating pocketknife and demand that you admit you are not a narc or would you rather go down to the local store, show your ID, get your stuff, drive home and roll a joint?

So-called marijuana dependence seems to largely be a factor of social and legal matters. I know many people who chose rehab over jail. They were reported as "marijuana dependent" rather than people who were given no other choice and opted to go to rehab instead of prison or probation. Furthermore, legalization would generate more liquid funds to go to rehabilitation for true drug addicts (opiate addicts, people with severe psychological dependency). Furthermore, I think we would see a shift away from alcohol is cannabis were legalized. It may also make sense to increase alcohol/liquor taxes a tad bit to encourage this shift.

In reality, marijuana laws create a lot of problems for society. You end up imprisoning people for marijuana. This goes on their record. They can't get a job. They're now poor. They turn to the black market. They become criminals. It's a vicious cycle. Would you rather have a few million so-called marijuana "addicts" who really can't handle themselves or would you rather have a few million criminals making a living by stealing, dealing and robbing or at the very least living on unemployment? I know people who have had their entire lives ruined by a single arrest. Some people are strong and can piece themselves back together, but most people just give up and turn to crime, alcohol, poverty and hard drugs. Stop the cycle and stop putting people in jail for growing a plant that's been used without problems for a millennium.



Yea man let's ruin people's lives and make prisons even more overcrowded!

This. The problem with decriminalization is that it still makes manufacturing marijuana illegal. That means no one can start their own tidy little grow op without risking jail time. Plenty of people would rather grow their own stuff than buy it. This fallacy is reflected in the Dutch coffee shop system. Shop owners can sell their cannabis/hashish on their storefront, but they cannot legally purchase larger quantities. They must deal with the black market to actually get their sellable product. If they grow their own, they are still possible targets for the police. Rather than create that weird and nonsensical state of law, it would be better to regulate the system in a way similar to alcohol.

Why would you be operating under that absurd assumption? Especially when talking about countries in the first world.

She has a valid point, because some states have govt. controlled alcohol monopolies. However, with marijuana it's far too easy to grow your own cannabis and it's just not worth it for the government to regulate it. Licensing growers though, I think that might work (i.e growers need to be licensed like liquor distillers).

[Sporadica]

I can legally smoke marijuana in Canada due to back pains. My Dr. said any time I want he'll fill out the paperwork but I have a job that does drug testing and my back pain hasnt shown up in a while. But I like the idea that I can smoke in front of cops haha.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

Yes, I do think so. If it is legalized it will greatly help everyone out there.

1. The drug will become more safe because it is not being stripped with an addictant like some people do to make the customers come back.

2. The government can tax it and make a lot of money off if it.

3. It will be better regulated so teens can't get it as easily. Like alcohol. Drug dealers will sell to anyone, even kids.

4. Harsh drugs will become obsolete. A lot of people won't be pressured into drugs like heroin, meth, cocaine, and more...