People who are different for the sake of being different

[mynameisjane]

i don't get people who base their opinions on being exactly the opposite of commonly accepted opinions. i dont get why these people feel like they have to oppose society in every way. they need to ask themselves if theyre different from everyone because all of your opinions are all coincidentally opposite traditionally accepted opinions or because they want to follow the crowd of people that reject every traditional belief. i'm all for rejecting traditional beliefs, i just dont believe in rejecting every single traditional belief with a crowd who rejects every single traditional belief for the sake of rejecting traditional belief. i think people should make their own opinions.:yes:

[Sapphire]

There will always be rebels who believe that the whole system needs to change. There is nothing wrong with rejecting every traditionally held view - if no one did this then we would not advance in anything would we?

It is natural to rebel and reject traditional beliefs, but it is also natural for humans to "group together". This is how you get the crowds of which you speak. It isn't detrimental to the human race as a whole and encourages revoluntionary thinking.

Davinci was hundreds of years before his time and reject so many "traditional" views that he was regarded as mad. Yet, hundreds of years after he passed away, we appreciate and accept his theories/inventions as factual and as great advances in science. Einstein was also regarded as mad due to some revolutionary and challenging views he possessed.

[mynameisjane]

but i'm saying its hard to believe that people in these groups reject every traditional belief because they actually believe that the beliefs are wrong and not for the sake of wanting to reject every traditional belief.
i think its good to have some traditional beliefs that you disagree with but its hard for me to believe that they truly disagree with all of them.
if someones complaining about one thing, i'd listen. if someone's complaining about everything, they just want attention.

[Everglow]

i think people should make their own opinions.:yes:

some of us 'rebels' do...

[Sapphire]

if someone's complaining about everything, they just want attention.

Nay, not true. In most cases you will find that they are genuinely dissatisfied with it all. If you listen to them and their quibbles then you will see some point or reason as to why they are going against the tide.

some of us 'rebels' do...
QFT, just because they are rejecting these views does not mean that someone has "put them up to it" or that they don't think for themselves or anything like that.

[mynameisjane]

btw its not that i dont like these kinda people, i just look at them and wonder why. i still haven't figured them out though.
i listen to what they say. i hang around people like this. their complaints with society seem to be the exact same complaints that all of their friends have.

[Sapphire]

Is it not possible that they are friends because they have similar dissatisfied views? And not that they have similar dissatisfied views because they are friends?

[Hyper]

'' Rebels '' just want attention

[mynameisjane]

[i'm going to get very stereotypical, only because it seems to be true in most cases. and i'm going to go straight out and say it, i'm challenging the beliefs of the emo/goth crowd, just to make it clear. and i'm NOT saying they're the same crowd but i consider them to be extremely similar.]

Is it not possible that they are friends because they have similar dissatisfied views? And not that they have similar dissatisfied views because they are friends?


sure its possible but what is more realistic?

adolecents who truley believe that death and pain are beautiful.

or adolecents who want to fit in with a crowd?

[DestroyTheFuture]

yeah, i hate emo and goth kids too.

everything about them just makes me want to kick them in the nuts and mess up their hair.

Jane, i agree with you, about how these kind of people are just ridiculous. Most of these kids just act "emo" and "goth" or w/e to make other friends, because they previously had none.

there are true "emo" kids, and true "goth" kids, as in kids who have had so much hardship that they dont trust anything anymore and so the reject reality and substitute their own. even "preps" and "ghetto bitchezz" have had this happen too.

for instance, i knew a girl who was very good looking, and she dressed very casually. in 8th grade, she got a little more sided towards the "emo" crowd with music and dress style. now, at 9th grade, she's absolutely fucking ridiculous and i just want to punch her in the face. she has dull black hair, and she "emo's" the hell out of it with extensions and spurts of tiny color amounts here and there. she's also obsessed with Hello Kitty (the "emo" way to be obsessed with it), she wears way too much make up, and she photoshops her myspace pictures to make herself look even more "hardcore" and "scene". i hate that girl now too because of her appearance, and her views, which are basically the opposite on everything in comparison to myself.

[Sapphire]

I was talking about people in general.
Adolescence, however, is different. It is a time of great turmoil. People are trying to discover themselves. Its the vague period of time between childhood and adulthood. Between being the child your parents influenced greatly and being your own adult. Some people act out and rebel because of the inner turmoil. Others conform. So what?
I don't see the issue. We are all just trying to find our way through life. We all want friends and to be accepted, even if we say "I dont care that I haven't got any friends, they are all stupid anyway". Why get so irate about how other people are doing it? And why pick out just emos and goths? They are not alike and I can think of plenty of other examples.

I guess you can say that I have an "inner goth". I find the gothic literature and views and fashions intriguing. I am drawn towards this but not engulfed by it and believe me when I say this, it is not all about death and pain. It is also about love and happiness. Just people like you jump to conclusions and claim that being goth is all about being obsessed with death and vampires just because the fashions revolve around black black and more black. Why not try and learn from these people? They have such a profound insight, why not just listen without making rash judgements?

DestroyTheFuture you seem to have issues with those who are different from you. Is that not even slightly hypocritical? I mean you said i hate that girl now too because of her appearance, and her views, which are basically the opposite on everything in comparison to myself this is a very blinkered and shallow stance to take.

[DestroyTheFuture]

DestroyTheFuture you seem to have issues with those who are different from you. Is that not even slightly hypocritical? I mean you said [QUOTE INSERTED HERE] this is a very blinkered and shallow stance to take.

not all people different from me

just people who hate Bush
just people who tell me that my religious stature is bad
just people who tell me that the music i like isn't good
just kids who trip balls every day
just people who like screamo
just people who are Democratic
just people who are black and fit stereotypes that i dont agree with
just people who are emo and fit stereotypes that i dont agree with
just people who are goth and fit stereotypes that i dont agree with
just people who think im not cool
just people who started puberty early and take away my life because of it
that's all i can think of right now

EVERYONE is different from me, in some way, but the people that are too different from me for me to accept, are the people that i dont like.

for everyone's information, thats how everyone is. think about it.


and yes, im aware that it's shallow, but thats one of the circumstances that make me the person i am, and im okay with that because the life that i care about accepts that, as they feel the same way about it.

[Sapphire]

just people who hate Bush
just people who like screamo
just people who are Democratic
just people who are black and fit stereotypes that i dont agree with
just people who are emo and fit stereotypes that i dont agree with
just people who are goth and fit stereotypes that i dont agree with
just people who think im not cool
just people who started puberty early and take away my life because of it
that's all i can think of right now

That's not exactly a short list!
What is the point in all this hate though? What is the point in hating a group of people just because they dress a certain way?

[unknown(to_myself)]

how much time have you actually spent around these groups of people destroythefuture?

[Octo22]

'' Rebels '' just want attention

Anyone who stereotypes themself under rebels, wants attention. Anyone who stereotypes themselves, wants attention. If someone meets me, and then labels me a rebel, I'm not seeking attention, it's just their perception of my actions.

[i'm going to get very stereotypical, only because it seems to be true in most cases. and i'm going to go straight out and say it, i'm challenging the beliefs of the emo/goth crowd, just to make it clear. and i'm NOT saying they're the same crowd but i consider them to be extremely similar.]

sure its possible but what is more realistic?

adolecents who truley believe that death and pain are beautiful.

or adolecents who want to fit in with a crowd?

Every scene has people like this, emo is just the current craze and easiest to point out. Goth and Emo are quite different actually. The main difference being intelligence and perception. Emo's seem more focused on fashion and being sad when alone or for attention in groups. Gothic are more focused on intellectual discussion (I'm talking older crowd-ish, not 13 year old goths). The leader of a gothic group of over 600 in my city, doesn't wear clothes that fit the stereotype, he just wears black shirts.

Yes, at a young age though, many people rebel for the sake of rebelling. I think Death can be a beautiful thing, it's the final escape from this plain of perception. Pain isn't beautiful in my opinion, that's more an emo cutting thing.


yeah, i hate emo and goth kids too.


Good job, in the first line you already put words in his mouth. He says he doesn't UNDERSTAND them, and hangs with them. He clearly doesn't HATE them.

everything about them just makes me want to kick them in the nuts and mess up their hair.

Jane, i agree with you, about how these kind of people are just ridiculous. Most of these kids just act "emo" and "goth" or w/e to make other friends, because they previously had none.


A) All scenes have people obsessed with fashion, in fact preppy girls spend longer straightening their hair than most emo's do gelling :P

I don't act the way I do to make friends, but again I'm not some young mall goth/emo.


there are true "emo" kids, and true "goth" kids, as in kids who have had so much hardship that they dont trust anything anymore and so the reject reality and substitute their own. even "preps" and "ghetto bitchezz" have had this happen too.


Since when has their been a pre-requisite for you to have to have gone through a hardship? Emo SHOULD have hardship to be depressed so goddamn much. Gothic is more a love for the poetic side of death, no hardship, just abstract thought (or posing as having it).

The only people I know who claim they "reject reality and substitute their own" are extreme drug users :/

for instance, i knew a girl who was very good looking, and she dressed very casually. in 8th grade, she got a little more sided towards the "emo" crowd with music and dress style. now, at 9th grade, she's absolutely fucking ridiculous and i just want to punch her in the face. she has dull black hair, and she "emo's" the hell out of it with extensions and spurts of tiny color amounts here and there. she's also obsessed with Hello Kitty (the "emo" way to be obsessed with it), she wears way too much make up, and she photoshops her myspace pictures to make herself look even more "hardcore" and "scene". i hate that girl now too because of her appearance, and her views, which are basically the opposite on everything in comparison to myself.

Too bad you lost a friend, but don't blame the scene. It just probably matched her unspoken beliefs the best. We're not attracted to that which our beliefs oppose.

And for a final kicker, I've come across arguing the gothic/emo side quite a bit. I'm merely playing Devil's Advocate. If you must stereotype me, I'm a mash up of Gothic (Love for poetic tales of death / intelligence) Punk (Mohawk, Anti-system, change our government, NOT pro-anarchic punk) and I'm also mainly a raver.

[DestroyTheFuture]

how much time have you actually spent around these groups of people destroythefuture?

Enough time

thats how much

[Octo22]

Enough time

thats how much

Ignorance such as yours wouldn't be accepted in many of these groups mentioned. If someone were to spout the same jibber jabber you mentioned in the "homosexuality thread" You'd be banned for blatently ignoring evidence that disproves your arguments ^^.

I wouldn't be suprised if these groups seemed hostile to your views. You seem to hate everything according to your list.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Ignorance such as yours wouldn't be accepted in many of these groups mentioned. If someone were to spout the same jibber jabber you mentioned in the "homosexuality thread" You'd be banned for blatently ignoring evidence that disproves your arguments ^^.

I wouldn't be suprised if these groups seemed hostile to your views. You seem to hate everything according to your list.


i said enough time because:

1)each time span is different

2)i cant remember the exact amount of time, which was what the person asked me

3)it actually is enough time

4)i didnt want to spend my valuable time typing a full page on the amount of time ive spent


im not going to stereotype some kid. you'd be an idiot if you thought that. anyways, i actually go to school and am in classes with these people, and i'd say 8 hours for 9 months is a long enough time period.

dont tell me that i have to be these people's BFF's!!!!111!!!!!11!---because i dont. the way they act in public is the way they are perceived. it's as simple as that. if the dont want a bad rep, then they need not to act like it.

[Octo22]

the way they act in public is the way they are perceived. it's as simple as that. if the dont want a bad rep, then they need not to act like it.

Well that just means you know what we would refer to as scene kids or fashion whores :P

I've never acted in a way that would give me a bad rep, even though my mohawk stands out a little, I still respect teachers. Hell I've got a 92 average :P

[mynameisjane]

these people don't want to be judged negatively for how they look, yet they judge preppy people and gangstas for how they look. all of the other groups judge them and they seem to be annoyed. i dont know if they realize it, but between all of the other groups and them, their the most bizarre looking.

[Sapphire]

their the most bizarre looking.

That is only true from the perspective of people who aren't part of that group. It can also be said about any group by any other group.

[mynameisjane]

no, theyre the most bizarre looking because they all wear black and when they wear colors, they're bizarre neon colors, their clothes have a lot of chains on them, they wear big shoes, they put lots of effort into make their hair look unnatural (cuts, gelled, and colors), they wear the most makeup, and they're the only group where the guys wear makeup.

[Sapphire]

So the baby pink and baby blue velvet trackies aren't included in this criticism of fashion? I'm guessing the people who wear tops that expose their belly that is the size of Asia don't look ridiculous or gross either.

On the plus side I could get a group of mates together and stroll down the streets of london day in, day out in Edwardian dress and be perfectly fine because the goths and emos would still be the bizarre looking ones by your own admission...

[mynameisjane]

i think those trackies are ugly but much simpler and not as bizarre looking as what a goth or emo person wears. in comparison to the rest of the modern world, yes, they are the most bizarre looking crowd.
and yes it is gross when fat people show off their gut. thats why i'm glad clothes that show your midriff are out of style. though that style draws less attention than how the emo and goth crowd dresses.
and i never said they looked rediculous or gross, they just look bizarre. and they can't say they don't want to draw attention when how they make themselves look is so bizarre.

[Octo22]

i think those trackies are ugly but much simpler and not as bizarre looking as what a goth or emo person wears. in comparison to the rest of the modern world, yes, they are the most bizarre looking crowd.

Nope, in comparison to YOUR world maybe. I've travelled a lot of the world, Amsterdam had more gothic and punks than preps/gangsta's. In fact it's mainly the western world that gangsta' seems to be present. Therefore they're the odd balls by your standards.

and i never said they looked rediculous or gross, they just look bizarre. and they can't say they don't want to draw attention when how they make themselves look is so bizarre.

So when you wear a slightly revealing top, would you say it's for attention? no, you'd say either it's comfy, or you like the look.

I dress the way I do not to be judged or get odd glares, merely to show off my fashion sense, just as you would.

You're being very judgemental of those who don't fit your (more likely your parents) definition of normal.

[DestroyTheFuture]

these people don't want to be judged negatively for how they look, yet they judge preppy people and gangstas for how they look. all of the other groups judge them and they seem to be annoyed. i dont know if they realize it, but between all of the other groups and them, their the most bizarre looking.

your entitled to your opinion, as i am entitled to mine

and i agree with you



they either DONT realize it, and they just think everyone else is fucked up,

OR

they DO realize it, and that's the entertainment that they get out of being emo, and thats one of the reasons why they like to be emo

[mynameisjane]

i TOLD you, it's out of style to show your midriff. especially if you're fat.
Nope, in comparison to YOUR world maybe. I've travelled a lot of the world, Amsterdam had more gothic and punks than preps/gangsta's.
are you saying that most of the modern world is gothic or punk?!

[mynameisjane]

you all seem to be annoyed that i consider the goth and emo crowds (and i'm gonna throw in the punks, scene, and hardcore) to be similar. i'm not saying that their beliefs are similar, but that the way the rest of the world looks at them is. the rest of the world sees that they all wear a lot of black, they all make their hair look unnatural, and they all seem to shop at hot topic.

[mynameisjane]

[QUOTE=~Tortured Beauty~;155056] Why not try and learn from these people? They have such a profound insight, why not just listen without making rash judgements?[QUOTE]

i do! its not like i dont like them! just today i went and saw pirates of the carribean 3 (very good movie) with one of my close goth friends. i made a joke about how if she ever went fishing and fell in, it would be really easy to catch her again what at with all the metal loops in her pants. so i have nothing against them, i just don't really understand why.

[DestroyTheFuture]

you all seem to be annoyed that i consider the goth and emo crowds (and i'm gonna throw in the punks, scene, and hardcore) to be similar. i'm not saying that their beliefs are similar, but that the way the rest of the world looks at them is. the rest of the world sees that they all wear a lot of black, they all make their hair look unnatural, and they all seem to shop at hot topic.

i fucking hate hot topic

the people there just completely meet the stereotypes of emo and goth


BUT

that is my understanding


Tortured Beauty has a very good, and obvious point

we see everyone as different

this debate really isnt going to be solved, unless you dont understand the simple logic that we are all entitled to our opinions. i think everyone knows that, so now, we can just go and give reasons why we dont like these individuals. we may have already done that, but i dont think we have capped on that as much as we should.


heres something to start us off:

-who do you think is the most bizarre?

-give one main reason as to why

-what group would you classify yourself?
(prep, goth, emo, gangsta, skater, other(if other, name))

-why do you choose to be a part of this culture?

-what are some positive things that you have received from being a part of this culture?

-what are some negative things that you have received from being a part of this culture?

fill it out, and i will fill it out later because i have to go to bed

[mynameisjane]

idk why i chose to start this argument, im not going to change the beliefs of an entire culture. i'm kinda bored with it.
<br>
death isn't beautiful. death is nothing. life is beautiful. theres no happiness without sadness and no sadness without happiness. theres an unlimited amount of things you can do, learn, and feel with your life. death is nothing. death isn't beautiful. no one can truly mean it when they say that death is beautiful and if they mean it then i dont see why they havent killed themselves already. and black is a depressing color.
<br>
i think the emo crowd is tied with the goth and punk crowd as the most bizarre crowds. they put effort into looking the most unnatural. i'm a nobody who hangs out with either the goth/emo/punk (the rockers) crowd or the gamers but i dress slightly rockerish (suprise!) because i wear eyeliner, rocker belts, hot topic jewlery, and skater shoes everyday and i play guitar. i dont know if i consider myself part of the culture but i dont like the way my eyes look without eyeliner, i think gothic jewlery is interesting, skater shoes are comfy, rocker belts look cool, and i happened to find a guitar in storage and i enjoy listening to rock music.

[Octo22]

the rest of the world sees that they all wear a lot of black, they all make their hair look unnatural, and they all seem to shop at hot topic.

That's more what the older generation see's. My grandparents make comments like that. My parents are more like "know that freak?" "yep" "niice"
Depending on how abstract one chooses to look, determines the bizarro factor.
Sure, I may wear baggy clothes, messed up chains and a mohawk, but I don't have 20 facial piercings, large gauged ears and tattoo's. I can fit in just perfect with the business world when I have to.

One example of difference of views, I don't understand Gangsters, I don't see why they idolize failure personally.


death isn't beautiful. death is nothing. life is beautiful. theres no happiness without sadness and no sadness without happiness. theres an unlimited amount of things you can do, learn, and feel with your life. death is nothing. death isn't beautiful. no one can truly mean it when they say that death is beautiful and if they mean it then i dont see why they havent killed themselves already. and black is a depressing color.

Few faults in your belief claim here. In my opinion, death is just as beautiful as life. I don't YEARN for death, I like being alive thank you :P I'm just fascinated with death and what happens when we finally die. Many people are, just some tend to embrace this fascination as a culture to share their views and opinions. I wear all black, I'm far from depressing looking :D


i think the emo crowd is tied with the goth and punk crowd as the most bizarre crowds. they put effort into looking the most unnatural.

Differences in cultures by a LOONGGG shot. Yes, they all look bizarre to an extent, but so do Gangsters and Skaters.
Besides, different looks have different values. A quick summary
Goth: Embraces death as an eventuality, studies the concept, usually intellectually inclined.
Punk: Recognizes the government isn't perfect and usually wants a change in society. 50/50 on intelligence or retarded trend follower
Emo: Depression.

If I see a punk, I see a belief system.

i wear eyeliner, rocker belts, hot topic jewlery, and skater shoes everyday and i play guitar.

Funny, you just described three things that make you emo around here. Yet you don't understand why people would like to look that way? You just stated why YOU look that way. You seem to have answered your own question :/

[Sapphire]

Funny, you just described three things that make you emo around here. Yet you don't understand why people would like to look that way? You just stated why YOU look that way. You seem to have answered your own question :/

QFT. Maybe look at your own reasons and you will discover some of their reasons.

[mynameisjane]

lol i dress the way i do because i want to look nice by my standards and by the sandards of the rest of modern society. i can see you're wondering why i criticize these crowds when they just want to look nice too. my question is why do they dress so extremely everyday if most of modern society would give them strange looks? like, i think i'd look good if i wore a darth vader costume. but people would give me strange looks and that would make me unhappy, so i won't. and i wouldnt blame the people who were pointing me out as someone who is wearing something odd. i would rather be accepted by most of modern society than mostly just the star wars crowd.

[Octo22]

Here's the difference between you and their mentality.

and by the sandards of the rest of modern society.

Conformity's just another word for giving up :P
Where's the fun in conforming? Letting people and society tell you what you should and shouldn't wear.

my question is why do they dress so extremely everyday if most of modern society would give them strange looks?

Because they see through mainstream bullshit? They don't care what modern society thinks of them. I used to have a job at a Dollarama where the owner told me to wear my mohawk up when I worked, because he liked to express diversity in his store.

but people would give me strange looks and that would make me unhappy, so i won't. and i wouldnt blame the people who were pointing me out as someone who is wearing something odd. i would rather be accepted by most of modern society than mostly just the star wars crowd.

I dress gothic, I'm accepted by people. Maybe not strangers glaring and judging, although who cares for them anyway. And I don't blame these people for judging me, in fact I welcome it. Because if someone is so quick to judge based on look alone, I'm not sure I WANT to know that person.

[mynameisjane]

theres nothing wrong with conforming. youre conforming to the gothic crowd, arent you? if you didnt care what people think about how you dress, why dont you just wear pajama's all the time? i'd assume they'd be much more comfy than chains and what not. and if you really didnt want to conform, youd dress differently from everybody else, including the goth crowd. but you must care about what people think about you if you would go throught the trouble of maintaining a mowhawk. i dont find it boring to conform because theres a lot of styles out there to chose from that i can express myself through without letting myself be judged by. no one can assume anything about me by how i dress except that i kinda care about how i dress, yet down to earth person who doesnt want to draw much attention to herself. and you judge people based on how they dress, don't you?

[Octo22]

Good counterpoints.

youre conforming to the gothic crowd, arent you? if you didnt care what people think about how you dress, why dont you just wear pajama's all the time? i'd assume they'd be much more comfy than chains and what not. and if you really didnt want to conform, youd dress differently from everybody else, including the goth crowd.


I don't conform to the gothic crowd one bit, I've used them as my biggest example because they seem to be the most under-attack. I'm a mash-up of Gothic, Punk and Raver. I don't like stereotyping people into groups, I'm in many.
I don't care what people think of my clothes, I find pajama's uncomfortable, I wear chains because I AS IN MYSELF, like the style and added weight to my legs. I do dress differently from everyone else.


but you must care about what people think about you if you would go throught the trouble of maintaining a mowhawk.

Umm, since when is a mohawk maintenance? lol. My mohawk again is FOR ME. It represents my views and ideology's shared with the punk crowd. I put it up WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Not when I'm trying to impress or go out. Hell, I've gelled it for a day of sitting home on the computer :P

i dont find it boring to conform because theres a lot of styles out there to chose from that i can express myself through without letting myself be judged by. no one can assume anything about me by how i dress except that i kinda care about how i dress, yet down to earth person who doesnt want to draw much attention to herself.

So you're assuming because you dress like a rocker you're immune to being juddged? Hell, you're judged if you wear the wrong BRAND LABEL by mainstream dumbasses.

and you judge people based on how they dress, don't you?

Actually no, I judge people by their actions from the moment I meet them. I don't judge by past or style. I just take in the person as a whole, and see just how genuine they are in their personality.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Tortured Beauty has a very good, and obvious point

we see everyone as different

this debate really isnt going to be solved, unless you dont understand the simple logic that we are all entitled to our opinions. i think everyone knows that, so now, we can just go and give reasons why we dont like these individuals. we may have already done that, but i dont think we have capped on that as much as we should.


SURVEY FOR REASONING OF DIVERSITY IN GROUPS

heres something to start us off:

-who do you think is the most bizarre?

-give one main reason as to why

-what group would you classify yourself?
(prep, goth, emo, gangsta, skater, other(if other, name))

-why do you choose to be a part of this culture?

-what are some positive things that you have received from being a part of this culture?

-what are some negative things that you have received from being a part of this culture?

FILL THIS OUT!

[unknown(to_myself)]

SURVEY FOR REASONING OF DIVERSITY IN GROUPS

heres something to start us off:

-who do you think is the most bizarre?
the whole "gangster" group
-give one main reason as to why
i just dont personally think anything they do has the slightest bit of intellect behind it...but thats just my opinion

-what group would you classify yourself?
(prep, goth, emo, gangsta, skater, other(if other, name)
i dont consider myself under only one group... but i am similar to goths in some ways to punks in others and a lot of people refer to me as "emo"

-why do you choose to be a part of this culture?
well, my mom was goth and my dad was punk...so i guess its mostly just following them...and emo isnt something i choose to be in..however i have (at least a little) more respect for them than the average person

-what are some positive things that you have received from being a part of this culture?
i love that wut i wear makes me an individual..thats fun
but honestly...i guess because of it i look at things in a differant way than a lot of people
i love the protest and am involved in as much as i can be to change things for the better-what are some negative things that you have received from being a part of this culture?
a lot of the time my views are more toward the depressive side
a really bad reputation (but this could be viewed either way...basically "I dont give a damn about my bad reputation" as The Blackhearts put it)
very few friends cause im so "differant" and people dont really understand my views

[DestroyTheFuture]

-who do you think is the most bizarre?
the stereo-goths, aka emo hybrids. basically, i realize that actual gothic culture is fairly interesting, but the stereotyped goths, who wear chainfilled black jeans, and spikes on their Slipknot hats and gay ass shit like that, are the people that i dont like. these are also referred to as emo hybrids, being emo and goth, because they love screamo and stanic death metal where you can understand the singer's, or "screamers" lyrics until you look them up.
-give one main reason as to why
lol i kind of just did^^^
-what group would you classify yourself?
(prep, goth, emo, gangsta, skater, other(if other, name))
original skater. what this basically is, is like, not emo skater, not gansta skater, not poser skater, but like, i wear clothes that are like the skaters and surfers did like 2 or 3 years ago, where emo and gangsta skater didnt really happen. i wear mostly Quiksliver with some local brand surf stores and stuff like that. i listen to all typesof rock, but not metal or screamo or anything like that. also, i listen to a lot of local hip hop and rap because that's just great poetic songwriting. you dont see those guys on TRL making a guest appearance to release information on the new movie that they are doing with beyonce, because they arent known enough throughout the land, only in the local underground scene, and their music is truly unique. see, last year and the previous years, i wore only abercrombie and stuff, because thats what the good looking girls liked, because i looked good in that. but now, the good looking girls are becoming a tiny bit more punk and emo i guess with music style and dress style, so being a skater appeals more to them. plus, i actually do skate so it fits my style and i like to have people know that i represent just by looking at me.
-why do you choose to be a part of this culture?
because i am most interested in this, and it expresses my individuality to the highest extent
-what are some positive things that you have received from being a part of this culture?
learning about myself, the fun of acting like a jackass to kids i dont know, and will never see again, looking better lol, and just being comfortable with myself because im not being fake to impress any girls, im being me, and girls will find a way to be impressed
-what are some negative things that you have received from being a part of this culture?
i get stereotyped by older people because my hair is long (like the average skater...not like a ponytail or anything). also, it sucks when people see that you have a board in your hand and they automatically think your a druggie, which i am proud to have never been one.

[Octo22]

unless you dont understand the simple logic that we are all entitled to our opinions. i think everyone knows that, so now, we can just go and give reasons why we dont like these individuals.


We are entitled to our opinions. Which is why I'm discussing the difference's with mynameisjane. YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE to bring up that they "don't like these individuals". So we're not debating as much as comparing perspectives.



SURVEY FOR REASONING OF DIVERSITY IN GROUPS


Why do you try and turn a good discussion into nothing but a fill in survey? Do you think people here are too dumb to form coherent sentences forming their views without some specific guideline?

[MoveAlong]

Well I didn't read the thread like I usually do, but I did read the first post.

I don't understand some of these people either. The only thing I can do is guess why they have such opinions.
And it's probably to have that sense of danger...that rebellion...when you're depressed, that's exactly how you feel! =]

I also had all these opinions about things because I thought it was cool. I thought it was neat to be this person who knows he's an ass, and pushes everybody out of his way, making jokes that only amuse himself. But I decided that didn't work for me.

So I don't think I'll ever really understand why they do it, but I agree with you, Jane :D

[mynameisjane]

yes, you do conform. you dress like the goth/punk/ravers. are you saying that youve never seen another goth/punk/raver before? are you saying that there is nobody else on earth that dresses like you? and you find pajama's uncomfortable? perhaps this is going off topic but what do you wear to sleep? okay, i'll accept that you like your mohawk. and nobody is immune to being judged. i'm just saying that i think that less people would judge me than they do you. i wear the same brands that most of the people at my school wear and i wear a lot of different kinds because i like to dress in several different styles so if anyone is judging me by my brands or by which crowd i dress like, it would be very few. i dont get why people would dress to represent a crowd if they dont want to be judged by the stereotypes of that crowd. i dont believe you dont judge people. its human nature to judge people off stereotypes. if you were stuck in a room with a gangsta and a punk, who would you talk to first?

[Octo22]

yes, you do conform. you dress like the goth/punk/ravers. are you saying that youve never seen another goth/punk/raver before? are you saying that there is nobody else on earth that dresses like you?

Conforming is dressing TO LOOK Goth. I happen to look goth because I like the fashion. I don't try to look Goth, I just prefer black over other colours, chains over none. It's all personal preference. I sure as hell don't do it to fit in, I hang out with the preps of my school :D The goths of my school fit the stereotype you're describing.

and you find pajama's uncomfortable? perhaps this is going off topic but what do you wear to sleep?

naked.

i dont get why people would dress to represent a crowd if they dont want to be judged by the stereotypes of that crowd.

Again, your assuming I dress to REPRESENT a crowd.


i dont believe you dont judge people. its human nature to judge people off stereotypes. if you were stuck in a room with a gangsta and a punk, who would you talk to first?

I'd actually say hey to both, and just judge which seemed nicer / more eager to speak.


What's with all these stereotypes? What ever happened to people being people? Sorry, I've just outgrown stereotypes. They're pointless. Chains are comfy to me, if I wear track pants, I feel uncomfortable. It all comes down to personal preference.


Who's the more intelligent person, the one who dresses the way they do because THEY like it, and THEY find it comfy.
Or the person who dresses specifically so people won't look at them, or think they're weird.

C'mon, have some fun in life, what's fun AT ALL in blending in with a crowd?

I've literally had four people above the age of 60 compliment me on my mohawk and asking how I keep it up. They found me easily approachable. They didn't see a goth, they saw a person. Grow up a little in your perception of people. It'll change your attitudes toward those who're different ;D

[Sapphire]

Jane, you are stereotyping everything and everyone. You are telling Octo22 that he dresses to represent a crowd when you haven't even met him. I think you are the one who is most concerned about who judges whom in what way.

Octo22 hit the nail on the head with his last bit They didn't see a goth, they saw a person. Grow up a little in your perception of peopleIf you grow to accept people more then you will be happier with yourself and will have more fulfilling relationships

[mynameisjane]

sure i've met him. ive never seen him but i've been talking to him for the past couple days.
grow up in my perception of people? this is what i percieve: i like to dress the way i do. every person seems to have clothing styles that they prefer over others. the goth/emo/punk etc crowds mostly dress in mostly black and incorperate metal into their clothes and wear unnatural colored makeup and make their hair look the least natural. other crowds have odd things too. i suppose you could say the gangsta crowd incorperates a lot of metal in their look too with their bling bling, but they seem to be the only crowd that typically dresses in one color from head to foot (aside from the track suits) and makes their hair and face look least natural, thus i consider them the most bizarre. i think my curiosity is justified.


If I see a punk, I see a belief system.
:/

My mohawk again is FOR ME. It represents my views and ideology's shared with the punk crowd.

i think these quotes imply that he dresses in a way that represents crowd that shares his beliefs. i dont think people should dress in a way that would make people look at him and say, "that guy think the way the rest of his crowd thinks"

[mynameisjane]

of course there are other people who dress in one color from head to foot like nuns and buisness people, but i means in high school.

[Sapphire]

Umm, since when is a mohawk maintenance? lol. My mohawk again is FOR ME. It represents my views and ideology's shared with the punk crowd. I put it up WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Not when I'm trying to impress or go out. Hell, I've gelled it for a day of sitting home on the computer

Jane, if you read this ^ properly then you will clearly see that he is stating that the mohawk is for him and helps represent his views and ideaology - this just happens to coincide with punks views and ideaologies. He doesn't say that his has the mohawk because he shares these ideaologies with this particular group.

[mynameisjane]

alright, so youre telling me that he would wear a mowhawk and be a punk, even if there were no punks?

[Sapphire]

If you actually bothered to read anything anyone actually writes then you would know that he has it because he likes it and it is his way of expressing certain views. Not because he is representing a group.

[mynameisjane]

i've quoted that he likes it and it shares his views and ideology shared with the punk crowd. i dont disagree that he doesnt like his mowhawk. im trying to figure out why the punk/goth/etc crowds like to be the way they are. why do they choose to look extremely different from everyone else? why dont they expect to be looked at differently? why do they all follow the same beliefs? why do they tend to listen to the same music? why doesnt an individual of the group expect to be judged for how the rest of the people in that group think? if how you dressed reflected how you thought, wouldnt people know how you thought before they actually knew you? isnt that stereotyping? arent they allowing themselves to be stereotyped?

[Octo22]

alright, so youre telling me that he would wear a mowhawk and be a punk, even if there were no punks?

Yep, if I were to think up the style all by myself, then yes. I clearly have seen mohawks in my lifetime.

i've quoted that he likes it and it shares his views and ideology shared with the punk crowd. i dont disagree that he doesnt like his mowhawk. im trying to figure out why the punk/goth/etc crowds like to be the way they are. why do they choose to look extremely different from everyone else? why dont they expect to be looked at differently? why do they all follow the same beliefs? why do they tend to listen to the same music? why doesnt an individual of the group expect to be judged for how the rest of the people in that group think? if how you dressed reflected how you thought, wouldnt people know how you thought before they actually knew you? isnt that stereotyping? arent they allowing themselves to be stereotyped?

I agree, in many cases this is true. "Waaaah, I'm being stereotyped cuz I look goth, that's dumb!" <- That is a very dumb statement. I EXPECT to be stereotyped, I just DON'T CARE.

Also, as to why they look a certain way (at least to throw in for punks/skinheads)

WAAAAY back when the government was even more oppressive, hundreds of workers / kids or basically anyone that felt they were bullyed, shaved their heads (some into mohawks) and wore boots, to make a political statement that they were mindless drones for the government to use as an army. So yes, I look a certain way because my views are shared with this group on many aspects. But I didn't become a punk, and then get the ideals, I had them before I knew what punk was.

But to get back to the original point.

The difference is people who COMPLAIN about being judged when it's obvious they should know it's coming; And people who DON'T CARE they're being judged, because they're making a statement FOR THEMSELVES.

I hope I've clarified :D

[mynameisjane]

thank you! *applause*

[Octo22]

Phew finally, good points all around

:D

[Mannequin]

I think conformity in itself is a much greater problem than people chosing to be different. Although, no one is really different anymore...nearly everything has been done. I respect individuality, but its apparent when people withdraw themselves so from themselves to gain added attention. I can relate to wanting attention--its in your persona.

[Hyper]

I think conformity in itself is a much greater problem than people chosing to be different. Although, no one is really different anymore...nearly everything has been done. I respect individuality, but its apparent when people withdraw themselves so from themselves to gain added attention. I can relate to wanting attention--its in your persona.

Yes like I said, ppl who are ''rebels'' just want attention.. ;P

[Mannequin]

Yes like I said, ppl who are ''rebels'' just want attention.. ;P

We know you said it--I don't care.

[Whisper]

Everyone is allowed to act however they want aslong as its within our laws
example green mohawk cool murdering your cook cause he makes mashed potatoes and there disgusting because you hate mashed potatoes....baaaad

You act how you want
I act how I want
Its called freedom

[Latino_Teen]

hate them. 2 words: rosie o'donnel. hate her. n ppl who r liek that r emo/goth crazy ass nonconformists