I think my best friend and I are in love with each other?

[ShredtheGnar]

*This is long. Very long. Not exactly my life story, but I included a lot of things to help explain the situation better. My best friend and I have always had a different relationship from his other friends, not to say he likes me more than some of his others. But the last few months, I've been trying to determine if we both want the same thing out of our friendship.*

*Second disclaimer! I see that this forum prohibits the promotion of drugs. I'm not saying anyone here should go out and smoke pot, it's a substance that reacts differently to different people depending on brain chemistry. I personally concentrate better high, but that is very rare among people. Also, I'll admit that pot made this whole situation really confusing. It actually just made this all much worse. Using weed to seduce people is stupid and wrong, and if you read you will see that if you do anything that the person's still not going to forget it..*

*Mods, if you don't agree with my previous statement please listen to my plea not to delete this post! It took me two hours to type this and get my feelings and thoughts organized, I'm most likely going to bomb a few midterms tomorrow since this was bothering me so much I couldn't study!*

I've been contemplating if I should ask this here for a while now, but I honestly need to figure this out now. One of my friends from elementary school moved away years ago, and moved back right before I started high school. Him and I instantly reconnected and became close friends quickly, just like before. We both have a lot in common and go to religion together, so we were together a lot. And while high school has strained our friendship we both were still able to stay close.

A few months into our freshman year of high school I began to realize my feelings for him. While I hadn't acknowledged my own sexuality yet (and I still haven't publicly: completely in the closet besides this post), I found myself infatuated with him. However, we generally hung out with a third friend so probing for reactions and observing was sort of difficult. In April of that year I went to his house for a sleepover with him and our friend when his mom was away. At one point one of his senior friends came by and rolled a few joints for us and went on his way.

I had recently convinced myself that I would try pot. I didn't listen to peer pressure at all, instead reading books and articles, and watching one of my now favorite movies the Union. I came to the conclusion that weed isn't necessarily bad for you and was in the mindset. Theres a much longer funnier story about my first experience with marijuana, but it must wait for another time. I fell in love with the plant, and I have evolved into sort of an ent since then.

My friend and I have sort of become smoking partners, but our friendship honestly doesn't revolve around weed. We both are just the sort of kids that can put minimal effort into school and pull off decent grades, a mist being stoned if not at school or work (I personally do not agree with going to school high- you have to be mad dumb to risk ruining your chances of going to college to carry a dime around on you). But don't get me wrong, it's a big part.

Fast forward to the summer going into my sophomore year, when my friend didn't go away to camp as he usually did because of summer school. We get closer then, since my summer job was down the street from his apartment I would go there almost everyday after work. One day I was there he spent the whole time in his underwear- thought it was strange but said nothing of it. But I got mixed messages; at one point this summer he let me in on a secret about another one of our friends trying to touch him recently, he spoke so bitterly about our friend that I could see that the event ruined their friendship. But our friend also stole from him after that, so I am not sure which event he's upset about.

Sophomore year came and things happened, namely another friend of mine whom I always questioned their sexuality began inviting my friend over everyday to smoke. He got smoked up everyday for like two months, and I noticed something weird going on. My friend got a girlfriend who he broke up with a week later, his story about the break up didn't really make sense. She was into him, he was in the beginning he said he just lost all attraction for her.

One day we got out of school early, so I went over to his house and we ate some pot brownies and watched one of those dumb high schooler targeted movies on Netflix (Foreign Exchange, if I remember correctly). At one point he asks me if I ever rubbed chili powder on my balls. I laughed and said no, and he told me that it feels really good. I thought it was dumb, but I did it and five minutes later my balls were on fire. So I ran into his bathroom with my pants at my feet and my underwear on trying to rinse them off with water. He came in and grabbed me and held me from behind up against the wall. We both looked into the mirror and we looked to be enjoying holding me against him in my underwear. If my balls weren't on fire I would have been very turned on. But I eventually got free and washed them off- if any of you ever get Tabasco sauce on your balls just remember to get some Goldbond.

But then he called half our friends and told them what happened, and I honestly didn't give a f**k about the embarrassment. But if he was doing it for a sexual reason, I don't think he would have called our friends to say he got me to rub chili powder on my balls.

My friend also started throwing parties when his mom was away. I would go to them honestly just to make sure the drunken lax bros didn't get into fights. Those kids just aren't my crowd, but I was social and got drunk for the first time. That was a big moment because my mom's in AA and this was when I got the courage to try drinking, since she had scared me from doing it.

The day after one party we got twisted and we went to the fair. My friend was going to hang out with a girl he wouldn't stop talking about, but in the end she brought a friend unexpectedly (in all seriousness, I knew she was leading him on but couldn't tell him) so I stayed with them. I observed them the whole time and I would say he was genuinely attracted to her. More heartbreak for me, and for him a week later when he told the girl how he felt and she rejected him.

That night we slept over at my house after smoking a bowl and watching fireworks. We giggled back and forth the entire walk home to my house, where my mom had gone away for the night. We went into my room and after eating dinner started cuddling in my bed as we fell asleep. At one point, he asked me what was I doing and I responded, “It feels so good to be close to someone high.” He agreed. True fact no matter if you're attracted to someone imo.

More sleepovers led to more cuddling while watching TV or playing xbox, not even high since at one point his mom found out he smoked and started drug testing him (Him not smoking didn't effect our friendship in the slightest). We would just push our hands back and forth, like a lazy battle for strength until he burrowed his head into my chest or something, I would do the same. Not once did I notice that he had an erection but every time we cuddled or played our 'game,' I did. This made me think he was just a really affectionate person and he wasn't gay.

In the middle of the summer he went away to camp and this year, I was the one in summer school. He went away to camp, after listening to him obsessing over another girl who wanted to hook up with him at camp. In the end, the girl was again leading him on and it never worked out. Again I picked up what was going on before he even left from texts and videos he showed me from her, this time I even told him what was going on. He didn't believe me, and came back heart broken from that but said he had hooked up with a dozen girls there.

*Back to my statement earlier about smoking and drinking not effecting schoolwork, I stay true to that. My poor grades were due to my father kicking me out of his house and me moving into my moms full time. The ordeal did a lot to me, and I ended up failing geometry. I actually had quit smoking for a while here since I saw my grades dropping. I retook it and got an A and a 91 on my state exam retake.

After he came back we had a sleepover one night with super generous to my friend, friend. We had gone longboarding on the bike path with a few more people and after we were going home he asked if we wanted to stay at his house after we had already said the two of us were going to my Mom's. He asked if he could come, I got pissed he invited himself and also had caught on what he was trying at this point. But I couldn't quite get his angle on it.

Generous friend used his very expensive pot to bribe us, saying he would smoke us both up. We happily agreed and went to his house to stay the night. We watched TV and hotboxed his room with an eighth, and at one point my friend tried to take the lighter from him and he started playing keep away. High as f**k, I sat there and watched the events unfold ready to jump in if anything got too out of control. The game of keep away turned into a grope session and the our friend started grabbing him inappropriately, I asked him if he had any food to stop it after a second (I didn't want to be a dick, but my friend looked uncomfortable).

He got up and left the room, and my friend looked at me and looked genuinely scared and told me to keep the other guy off him. In a moment of unawareness, he told me the story about our friend from the year before. When our friend came back, I realized what was going on. I had never touched him inappropriately in any of our cuddles, as I didn't want to scare him away if he was gay and in denial or make things awkward if he was actually straight. But, I could tell what happened was over the line and he was uncomfortable. When our friend came back he was changed for bed and he told me I would sleep on the floor and my friend would sleep in his bed with him.

Speaking to me he sounded a little bitter, I realized he thought I was cramping his style but I couldn't let him borderline rape my friend. I mean, we both wanted him I wasn't trying to ruin his chances I just saw my friend didn't like it. A reaction he didn't get from me. But I fell asleep and left early the next morning since I had work. When I got out I met up with my friend to talk to him about what happened.

The next day when we did, he told me how our friend was touching him in his sleep and how terrible it was. He told me another story about when he was in seventh grade at his old school and how a kid in the class messaged him on Facebook one night and confessed his love to him. He told me that he had told the whole class the kid was gay. I told him how wrong that it was and he should have felt horrible, he agreed but said it was too strange. Again, this chased me away from him.

A week or so later, sexual deviant friend asks if I want to try some more of that weed (it's not laced either, if anyone has been thinking that, I looked at it). After bowl three we go longboarding, and after stopping at the convenience store for some munchies I ask him what he's doing this weekend. He says his dads going away and we might have a few people over, namely mentioning my friend. I ask if I can come (since he named almost all of our friends) and he says maybe.

I told him my friend and I already had plans that night, as we did. He says we can stay at his house and says my mom will be cool with it since she probably knows my friend and I are f**k buddies. I look at him confused and crack up laughing (the pot did that, sober I would have peed my pants realizing he knew how I felt for my friend since I keep it a secret). He says that I should invite him over to my house to instead of being a jerk and keeping him to myself. Again, I laugh hysterically.

What he thought was going on was what I've wanted this whole time. I tell him, “I don't know what you're talking about.” He says, “Okay, well I guess you don't mind if I f**k him.” This time, I intentionally laugh hysterically and acted dumb. He dropped it and he hasn't brought up the subject since. I don't know what he thinks now, but it would explain why he doesn't really want to hang out with me anymore. I'm just sad it ruined our friendship, but I really did nothing wrong.

Why do I include this part and all it's strangeness? Well it gives a third person perspective on my relationship with my friend from another persons point of view. He thought we were hooking up, so maybe theres a way my friend and I interact that I don't see for myself?

Flash forward another month and it's this past Fall. Junior year of high school, and we both have been thinking about colleges and we both have the same first two picks for schools. This has made me a little more anxious lately, playing out scenarios about if I keep holding in my feelings until college and we both in fact do go to the same school. I want to get this off my chest, and I keep getting more mixed signals.

I have noticed that both my friend and our mutual friend that didn't grope him are both talking to girls. I catch on that that latter's female companion is leading him on, a couple months later this will prove true. I guess I'm just good at reading people like that. My friend is talking to a girl that he will eventually end up dating for three weeks and break up with her because shes “a crazy bitch.” From the start something was off with that relationship, as the girl was actually the one to ask him out.

At one of his parties I packed a few bowls for him and his girl to smoke. They hadn't kissed or anything yet, they wanted to take it slow. Her brothers a kingpin pot dealer so she got really into it and they smoked. I thought it was a little weird when I tried to leave them alone (at this point I think he's straight) but when I try to leave the hotbox he keeps telling me to stay. Like he was nervous or something. I figured he needs to just get with her and I'm not going to be the reason he doesn't. I told myself I wouldn't let my attraction for him determine how I treated him, and did the whole 'bro' thing.

At the end of the night they had had one kiss. They went on a few more dates before breaking up. I thought it was weird when one guy told her just to fuck my friend as it was obvious they liked each other, and it looked like they were into each other from my perspective as well.

A few days before he broke up with his girlfriend, my friend and I went snowboarding. Afterwards, I went home and a while later went back to his house to stay the night. When he answered the door, I tried to hide my excitement when he answered the door in long his snowboard base layers. The looked hot on him. Really hot.

His mom was gone for the night, so we went and started playing Saints Row 3 he got for Christmas. He also thought it would be a good time to try out his new GoPro camera and wore the head mount to record the gameplay and our conversation. After finishing the recording we uploaded it to my laptop and looked it over a little and then we smoked a bowl and he forgot to delete it.

Eventually we started cuddling, but it was more like wrestling. Eventually I ended up sitting on his face and his legs were up in the air, it felt like he was sticking his tongue out on my butt, and I started getting turned on and grabbed his leg and bit it. All of a sudden he stops and gets off me and freaked out I bit his leg. I didn't say anything, but he started getting sexual. I wasn't the instigator, just the aggressor. Regardless, I stayed away from him and we didn't really touch each other the rest of the night.

In the morning we woke up at the same time him sleeping in his bed me on the floor next to him. He said it was snowing outside so I hopped on his bed to look. After a minute he told me to get off the bed and I said no, so he started tickling me. I tickled him back and we started just ticking each other as much as we could until we fell off the bed together and we just ended up cuddling again. He told me to get off of him, not sounding pissed at all. Because he didn't sound mad I just figured he was being playful and I said no. He told me to get off or he would rub a used condom on me. I said I wasn't getting off, frankly I wanted him to do that very much.

And he did after a few minutes of trying to convince me to stop tickling him. He never sounded serious when he told me to get off, and he eventually just stopped asking. I wasn't sure if he really did want me to get off though, if I was making him feel awkward I would feel terrible. But I did let him go and he got up and went to the bathroom, telling me to find the condom that got lost somewhere in the struggle since he didn't want his girlfriend to see it when she same over later. Sort of a slap in the face to me.

I get home and a few days later I'm making my chem project in iMovie and the footage from the other night is there. Remembering what he was wearing, I thought it would be fun to watch and proceed to do so although feeling like a scumbag. I'm watching it and because of the headmount, I can see exactly what he saw- including what his attention was on. I see a few minutes into the clip he starts looking at his crotch while I'm busy on my cellphone. A minute later he picks up a dead controller and asks me to get mine. I get up to go get the controller, and the minute I leave he starts touching himself.

Now I just started observing it completely, and after I came back into the room I changed my seat to next to him. A minute later, I can see him starting to get an erection (or I'm 70% sure I do) and he crosses his legs. All things I thought nothing of at the time. I can hear him starting to breath a little harder, and then the home phone rings. He leans forward and again looks at his crotch before waiting a minute before slowly getting up to get the phone- as if he was being careful not to let anything pop out.

Fast forward to this past weekend, and we are both chilling at his place while his moms away. We invite a couple friends over, namely sexual deviant friend and another person from our social group and smoke mad blunts and play video games. At one point sexual deviant friend and the other guy start wresting, my friend tells me once they leave the room that they hook up. We were really high, so I don't know if that was him joking or not. When we're in the bathroom smoking someone said something that I can't remember, and my friend looks at me and says so only I hear, “Everyone's going to think we're gay. Actually their going to know... because we all are.” and he glances around the room, no one else heard him.

As you can tell, that CONFUSED THE SH*T out of me. Seriously, dude. WHY? He was really high, so I just don't know if that was serious or not. He's the kind of person that would say that though, but the two comments together like that were strange. I mean, we did all sleep in the same bedroom and sexual deviant friend and my friend were in the same bed?

Sooooo, I'm thinking I should ask if it was true? But if he wasn't, that's game over for me.

And it gets more confusing! Go to last night and I ask if my friend wants to sleepover and go snowboarding in the morning since we had no school. Once we are in my room we're laying down on my bed talking. I assume he wants to stay on the floor again, so I tell him I'll go get some blankets. He tells me he's just going to spoon me in bed since my rooms too cold. He laughed. We both smoked a bowl and fell right asleep, ironically.

In the morning after my mom left for work we decided to do a little wake and bake. Two bowls down and he starts cuddling with me, it seemed a bit more sexual though. It lasted a really long time, and as always he lets go of me first. A minute later we're on top of each other again. As the morning went on we realized we weren't going snowboarding so we just started smoking a lot. At one point we started choking each other, and he was definitely enjoying it (as was I).

He started even telling me to choke him, and we were choking each other getting higher while basically on top of each other, and if that's not sexual I don't know what is. But in hindsight we are both pretty messed up. I know he's into kinky shit though, and I am too. Which would make our relationship even more interesting, if there's a possibility for one.

We basically just cuddled all day today and smoked, with a quick break for lunch. It was so intimate and amazing, but it just stayed there. At one point he started showing me his porn collection on his cellphone (all straight or girl on girl) and we just started watching porn in bed. At one point we were both jacking off a little to it on our own, but he wasn't exactly being open about it and I he stopped. For a few hours he was also texting a girl he said he was going to hook up with this weekend. He asked her if they were going to have sex and she said yes. But, again I feel like this isn't going to actually happen. I feel that if he were attracted to me something more definitely would have happened today.

So based on this, would you say that my friend is into me? I mean, I thought it was sort of normal for guys to cuddle until I just did some intensive googling. Some of the answers on Yahoo say it's definitely not something straight guys do, but how am I supposed to know when he cuddles with me for three hours then gives me a rundown of how he's going to nail this chick? If this is all really stupid, please just tell me and I won't hesitate to take it down. I feel as if the answer is really clear I just don't know which one.

TL;DR: I can't read my friends mixed signals to see whether he's loves me back or if he's not attracted to me. What should I do?!?!?!

[TheMightyBruce]

It could be that your friend may be bi or curious. Now that I've said this, I'm wondering about your sexuality since you do not mention any attraction for a girl in your story (completely understandable since it is not the main topic). Although yahoo says it is not normal, it really is normal to experiment or explore one's sexuality. Most people on Yahoo will not admit to that because they are in fact insecure about admitting the truth. Because it is all very unclear at the moment, it is best to continue being his best friend. Do not do anything rash or in this case...sexual...as it could ruin your friendship. Eventually the answers will unfold. However, seeing that your friend is still uncomfortable with either accepting the truth or any of those actions, it's best to wait it out.

[ShredtheGnar]

Thanks for your response, I get the feeling that he hasn't come to terms with his sexuality yet, but today he was sort of throwing himself at me- so yesterday definitely helped.

Today we hung out after school. We went to dinner with a couple friends and drove around, and after went back to my place to kill time for an hour before synagogue. We were just surfing the web (I had to quickly beat him to the computer and close the browser so he didn't see this page, lol) and we decided to make a rage comic together.

We were just making it and he was typing while I animated it on my graphic tablet, and at one point I asked him if if he would think I was weird if I said I liked him choking me yesterday. He said he would, and I said it seemed like he was enjoying it. He said he just didn't want to look like a pussy- the look on his face yesterday said otherwise, but I took his word. A few minutes later he started cuddling with me.

While we were working he started telling me about a religious retreat he goes on and that I should go with him next time. He said that all the guys were able to be really open with each other and shared a lot of secrets, his first example being that a lot of guys there come out of the closet regularly. I said, "Huh." and tried not to let it really effect me. I wasn't sure if that was his way of saying that he knew I was gay or if it was him saying, "Come to the retreat in March and we can come out of the closet to each other!"

I honestly don't want to wait that long, lol. But if that's his plan, that's cool.

Then a few minutes later he buried his face into my shoulder and started getting closer to me, then we were cuddling again. We just worked on the comic taking breaks every few minutes to cuddle, then my sister showed up at my house unexpectedly and I went downstairs. When I came back upstairs he was on his knees beside my bed in what was appearing to be a very sexual position with his back to me.

I tried to ignore it and kneeled down next to him and got back to work. A minute later, he started playing footsies with me and it eventually escalated to him grabbing me from behind. I'm not sure, but I think I felt his boner at that point (or his cell phone) and arched my back and he bit my side, asking if I liked that too.

I said it just hurt and I think he broke this skin after pulling him off. Then he quickly pulled up my shirt and felt for blood and put it down. Yeah, it did hurt butttt it would have been cool if I definitely knew it was sexual. He pulled me onto the ground and just laid on top of me and we played keep away with my debit card that was sitting on the ground near us.

After he got off nothing much more happened, besides a couple more quick cuddles- one each initiated by each of us. The difference from yesterday, was that today he was the one who seemed to want to cuddle more. But I was unsure of what the next step would be, and I basically just laid there each time playing tit for tat. So each time he would just get tired after a minute of it and get off.

Next time we end up cuddling like that and it's getting a little heated, what would be the next thing to try? Or should I wait for him to ask me about fooling around when he's ready- after tonight I think he's becoming more open minded.

When we found out we didn't have to go to religion, we decided to pick up some medical someone had and went to Starbucks to meet them. While we were there and sitting in the lobby, we told me about how our friend had an open house all weekend and him and my friend were talking about having a few girls over with a couple more guys. He said that one person might not be able to go tomorrow, so he would give me a call if I could go. I said that was cool, I talked to him about the girl he was supposed to bring there, and how she was now probably busy. She definitely said she wanted to have sex with him, I read the text. I found it a little strange that she couldn't go now.

Back to the previous response and the comment on my own sexuality, I'm pretty sure at this point I'm gay. I feel like I've known since middle school, and I've spent a few years denying it. In that time I had a girlfriend for a month, but in retrospect we didn't do much and I think it was more of a cover. But then I sometimes get turned on by girls, rarely though. I could see myself marrying my friend though, or being life partners or whatnot. It just seems right for us, we are both so similar and get along so well. And we just like being together.

But I'm not effeminate in the slightest. I hate sports, but how I carry myself in public leads everyone to think I'm straight. I'm expecting a really big surprise from my friends if/when I eventually come out. If my friend and I feel the same way for each other, I'm going to ask him that we attempt to keep our relationship secret until graduation, just to spare all our friends the social torment of hanging out with the "gay kids," or kids starting rumors our friends are gay since two of their friends turned out to be. I know that I'm going to be surprised as to who keeps being our friends after that.

In public, he can do something embarrassing on occasion but I do too so it doesn't bother me. But all the scenarios I've played out in my head have been very good, if he is attracted to me I feel like it's on the same level as I am to him by the way he's acted these last few days. And I know I'm in love with him, no question about it.

Thanks a lot, and thanks in advance to everyone else who replies!

[The Joker]

While we were working he started telling me about a religious retreat he goes on and that I should go with him next time. He said that all the guys were able to be really open with each other and shared a lot of secrets, his first example being that a lot of guys there come out of the closet regularly. I said, "Huh." and tried not to let it really effect me. I wasn't sure if that was his way of saying that he knew I was gay or if it was him saying, "Come to the retreat in March and we can come out of the closet to each other!"

You've got it right here. I think you know that he's interested in you, and he is being highly suggestive, I guess he just doesn't want to risk saying something too suggestive in case you were straight and didn't like him. If he wants to do it in March, let him do it in March, and it will be so much better, because it will be on his terms, and in his comfort zone (which he doesn't quite seem to want to get out of yet).

[DarkNick]

I was looking for a story like this!
(I've been through a similar story with a friend of mine but I exploded and told him how I felt about him too early :P)
I think that he's playing around with his and your sexuality. He probably doesn't know if he is bi, or gay or straight either 'cause he doesn't want to admit it or 'cause he just accepts the signals but ignores the labels (sounds a bit stupid, doesn't it? :P). I think that he wants the sort of a platonic love (like the friendship you got), the one truly partner that he would share with him anything,but in most of the cases not his bed (if you got what I mean :P),though, I think that in your case you might have some chances...
At least that's what happened to me and I'm talking by having personal experience (my story actually is more or less the same with yours)

Be patient for a while,read the signs, keep the tactic that you have follow until now and be ready for anything!
If you want to ask me anything about it, feel free to!
I know that it may not be a clear answer to your issue, but it's the clearest that I can give (and I REALLY want to help you! :) ).

[ShredtheGnar]

Thanks for your reply, Nick. It really helped and I feel much better knowing that I'm not the first person that this has happened to. But would you mind sharing your story and telling me how it ended with you and your friend? I feel like it would better help me be prepared for what can happen next.

When you say that you think I have chances, what do you mean exactly by this? Is there a way that I could determine how much of a chance?

Tonight he went to a party where a girl kept telling him that she wanted to hook up with him, but because of the ice outside I highly doubt the girls were able to go. Tomorrow I was going to ask him if he wanted to sleep over, maybe he'll be a little more up for something since he got disappointed the night before?

Another big question that I've had is if he tries to kiss me or something, should I be hesitant to accept it? I have this paranoia that if he does that it would be just to prove that I'm gay or something. I know it's not something he would even think of, I just don't have very much courage.

And when you say to be ready for anything, I have a strange feeling that he would be too afraid to try anything. Should we just keep playing chicken as we are, if that is in fact what's happening? I don't want him to move on from it and miss the opportunity should it arise, I just don't know what to look for!

The platonic love was what I always thought it was, it's just that it's escalation makes me think that theres something more to it. I want something more than it, and the anxiety of whether or not there is kills me.

Today something else happened that I thought would be worth mentioning, keep in mind that these last three days have just been pretty eventful in this sense. It's not like everyday I am looking for an excuse to convince myself he's attracted to me...

After one of our classes we have together, I walked up to his desk and sat down next to him. We were just talking a little when the friend that was trying to get with him in the first post walked up. As the bell rings, my friend tells the other guy that I like being choked and smiled at me and walked away.

The other guy looked at me and burst out laughing as did I, since yesterday in class I randomly said to him that I felt like choking somebody- he asked where my friend was in response. Had that happened yesterday I would have stayed away from my friend after that in fear that he was going to start telling people I'm gay (biggest fear), but instead I'm looking at it from a new perspective.

The fact he told that particular person makes me think that he told him that knowing he wouldn't be a risk. The fact the other guy said that to me yesterday makes me wonder if he already knew? I mean, we both know the third kids gay at this point- maybe my friend and him talk about stuff like that and I don't know it? I've always danced around the subject with him after what happened in the summer.

[ShredtheGnar]

You've got it right here. I think you know that he's interested in you, and he is being highly suggestive, I guess he just doesn't want to risk saying something too suggestive in case you were straight and didn't like him. If he wants to do it in March, let him do it in March, and it will be so much better, because it will be on his terms, and in his comfort zone (which he doesn't quite seem to want to get out of yet).

That's what I want to believe, but what if it was his way of saying, "Dude I think you should come out of the closet." and he is straight? The difference between the other guys that came out to him (three that I know of- so they also thought he was gay) is that I have just been really sweet and spend time with him. I'm not in any rush (well I am, but I have some self control) so maybe he is starting to see that I just don't want sex, and that I really do care about him? And knowing him as well as I do from hearing him talk about girls, compassion is what he really wants. And if he is gay, the intimacy of our relationship is probably driving him crazy.

And I remembered something else pretty important that I forgot to include in the original post, he's gotten a blowjob from a girl from his camp. But he was drunk at a party (with camp friends a few hundred miles away) and he said he fell asleep in the middle of it. Something about trying to relax and holding out and he was just too tired....

[DarkNick]

Thanks for your reply, Nick. It really helped and I feel much better knowing that I'm not the first person that this has happened to. But would you mind sharing your story and telling me how it ended with you and your friend? I feel like it would better help me be prepared for what can happen next.

When you say that you think I have chances, what do you mean exactly by this? Is there a way that I could determine how much of a chance?

Tonight he went to a party where a girl kept telling him that she wanted to hook up with him, but because of the ice outside I highly doubt the girls were able to go. Tomorrow I was going to ask him if he wanted to sleep over, maybe he'll be a little more up for something since he got disappointed the night before?

Another big question that I've had is if he tries to kiss me or something, should I be hesitant to accept it? I have this paranoia that if he does that it would be just to prove that I'm gay or something. I know it's not something he would even think of, I just don't have very much courage.

And when you say to be ready for anything, I have a strange feeling that he would be too afraid to try anything. Should we just keep playing chicken as we are, if that is in fact what's happening? I don't want him to move on from it and miss the opportunity should it arise, I just don't know what to look for!

The platonic love was what I always thought it was, it's just that it's escalation makes me think that theres something more to it. I want something more than it, and the anxiety of whether or not there is kills me.

Today something else happened that I thought would be worth mentioning, keep in mind that these last three days have just been pretty eventful in this sense. It's not like everyday I am looking for an excuse to convince myself he's attracted to me...

After one of our classes we have together, I walked up to his desk and sat down next to him. We were just talking a little when the friend that was trying to get with him in the first post walked up. As the bell rings, my friend tells the other guy that I like being choked and smiled at me and walked away.

The other guy looked at me and burst out laughing as did I, since yesterday in class I randomly said to him that I felt like choking somebody- he asked where my friend was in response. Had that happened yesterday I would have stayed away from my friend after that in fear that he was going to start telling people I'm gay (biggest fear), but instead I'm looking at it from a new perspective.

The fact he told that particular person makes me think that he told him that knowing he wouldn't be a risk. The fact the other guy said that to me yesterday makes me wonder if he already knew? I mean, we both know the third kids gay at this point- maybe my friend and him talk about stuff like that and I don't know it? I've always danced around the subject with him after what happened in the summer.

Ok so first of all I'll explain to you what happened with my case (but hopefully yours won't have that end! :P)
So we met at a summer camp and we knew each other about 3 years (in total),the first 2 years we were cold towards each other and we were just saying hello and stuff. The third year out of the blue our common friends weren't in the camp for 2 weeks and we were just the 2 of us (Not even our parents), the whole camping was empty so somehow like that we found that we have many commons and we were spending the whole day together.We came close, really close but I had one target:to make him be my best friend (Selfish I know but that was 2 years ago) so I was insecure and I was acting like a bitch in some parts (I'm a bit aggressive as a person what can I say? :P)He was keep telling me that he's in love with one close friend of both of us and that she had a GF and that since he couldn't have her he wouldn't just stand there, so he went a make a relationship with a girl that he thought of her as stupid (It was strange to say oh I love her but at the same time to say she's an idiot).As in your case I was reading some ''gay'' stuff towards me (he was always looking at me during conv between let's say 10 ppl,slapping my ass,sleepovers,hugs,gay jokes,cuddling,sleeping on me and stuff..). Many of us thought that when me and him were fighting it was like a couple fighting meaning that we had a somehow ''different'' friendship.
After the summer things started to get bad.We were leaving far away from each other and we could only meet once or twice in one month.During winter we were arguing again and again but for a strange reason he would still defend me or at least not badmouthing me-like he loved me more than I thought...Then there was a friend that was like your case (he wanted him somehow...).I know that 'cause he was getting really envious when I was near my friend (but that's another story)...
Anyway I couldn't stand the pressure,the pain and that he couldn't admire or at least tell me if we were even good friends or just buddies so I confess him my love for him, he freaked out and in the end we decided to leave this friendship back and start living our lives away from each other.
It has been 6 months since I last saw him. I really miss the feeling that I was taking from that friendship (the good one)eventhough I've been through a lot but I wouldn't like to live that nightmare again anytime soon.Perhaps something more balanced....

Anyway as for the other things that you asked.
-As for the ''love'' part I have to say that it's 50-50. He may see you as a brother (like mine friend did-or at least that's what I figured out in the end),someone who might have an attraction for,but can't ''translate'' it like that (Platonic love), or there's something more than that..

-If he tries to kiss you or anything I think that you should go for it! I mean that's what you're waiting for and I don't think that he can do any damage to you after...
Either way (either if u accept the kiss or not)your friendship with him won't be the same again

-I know how it feels to don't know what he wants from you but that's all you got.If you harsh moves or ''big'' moves it may end like mine story did (which I wish it won't)

Ask me whatever else you want :)

Damn that's my biggest post!!!! :O :yes:

The things that you mention about the last days, I have to say that I can't read his signs easily either...
It seems like something big is in his mind...! :P

[ShredtheGnar]

Thanks, the reaction your friend had is the one thing I've been afraid of. That's why I've been so patient with this for the last couple years- when I first started realizing I was in love with him (little less than a year ago) I went online in search of someone else's experience to learn from. Most people said that they confessed their love too early, so this whole time I've been very careful not to do too much at once.

And what I saw back in the summer reinforced that, and I've been letting him slowly come out of his comfort zone on his own time. Since I think he's starting to figure it out, as am I, he's slowly been getting more physical and sexual. If I could go back these last few months as of now, I wouldn't change a thing. I think taking my time like this is why he is opening up to me, like I said he is looking for a strong emotional relationship and that's what I've tried to provide.

I think I'm going to ask him if he wants to sleepover tonight. Probably going to clean myself up a bit to see if that helps, it should at least flatter him- I'll report back should anything interesting happen :lol:

[DarkNick]

Thanks, the reaction your friend had is the one thing I've been afraid of. That's why I've been so patient with this for the last couple years- when I first started realizing I was in love with him (little less than a year ago) I went online in search of someone else's experience to learn from. Most people said that they confessed their love too early, so this whole time I've been very careful not to do too much at once.

And what I saw back in the summer reinforced that, and I've been letting him slowly come out of his comfort zone on his own time. Since I think he's starting to figure it out, as am I, he's slowly been getting more physical and sexual. If I could go back these last few months as of now, I wouldn't change a thing. I think taking my time like this is why he is opening up to me, like I said he is looking for a strong emotional relationship and that's what I've tried to provide.

I think I'm going to ask him if he wants to sleepover tonight. Probably going to clean myself up a bit to see if that helps, it should at least flatter him- I'll report back should anything interesting happen :lol:

Yeah you did well and you should keep that mindset!
I'll keep watching the threat to see what will happen next! :P

[Hugger]

U two are obviously close. I Have a feeling that he is definitly dropping hints. Why else would he mention that, "coming out thing." good luck with the sleep over invite. :p

[TheMightyBruce]

I'm starting to agree...Either he knows your sexuality or he is hinting about coming out with the whole religion camp thing. At this point you seem to be doing a good job in noticing all these hints he's giving you and I'm starting to believe he his bi...but in denial. As for your sexuality, you thought you were gay but have very slim attractions with women which is perfectly okay. I am bi with equal attraction to both sexes...but there are times where I seem to be more attracted to the guys than the girls which seems similar to your case. Again be cautious with what could happen. ... lol..sorry slightly jealous with what u have. Umm but if he brings up anything...just go with it...you seem to know what you should do when things happen and just consider what can happen when u do things that way you are more prepared to handle what he does

[SpiceandWolf]

Im sorry but are you a male or female

[ShredtheGnar]

Yeah you did well and you should keep that mindset!
I'll keep watching the threat to see what will happen next! :P

Thank you, sir!

U two are obviously close. I Have a feeling that he is definitly dropping hints. Why else would he mention that, "coming out thing." good luck with the sleep over invite. :p

Thanks, it works well because we balance each other. I used to be extremely socially awkward, and he's a pretty charismatic person and I learned a few tricks from him. He can sometimes get a little carried away with himself (slightly smug), and I remind him when he is being the down to earth person I am. And I feel we have so much in common, that we can be super open to each other.

Take Wednesday for example, while I don't know exactly how I was supposed to take what he said but we are both always on the same wavelength.

I don't think it's happening, his phone got turned off by verizon so theres no way to know what he's doing unless I go to his house and it's too cold. I really need to buy a car!

I'm starting to agree...Either he knows your sexuality or he is hinting about coming out with the whole religion camp thing. At this point you seem to be doing a good job in noticing all these hints he's giving you and I'm starting to believe he his bi...but in denial. As for your sexuality, you thought you were gay but have very slim attractions with women which is perfectly okay. I am bi with equal attraction to both sexes...but there are times where I seem to be more attracted to the guys than the girls which seems similar to your case. Again be cautious with what could happen. ... lol..sorry slightly jealous with what u have. Umm but if he brings up anything...just go with it...you seem to know what you should do when things happen and just consider what can happen when u do things that way you are more prepared to handle what he does

Yeah, I sort of agree with you on the bi thing too. Just thinking about bisexuality and how people behave, the bisexuals I know aren't too attached to any one social group (i.e. him). Can anyone else relate to this? I'm not a judgmental person, btw. Just a tad too observational.

That's something my friend does, as I stated his parties have a totally different crowd than the one I hang out with. My friend also stumbles through a couple others, both of us are in a few.

Now that I think about who he hangs out with in those groups, I think I can see what over guys he's interested in. He recently starting talking to a couple more people, and I think one of them is gay.

I really used to wish I was more attracted to girls, but knowing how crazy they all are I consider myself lucky. Ha!

As for what we have, I don't take it for granted in the slightest. As you said there's an end date to this, and either we are going to be very happy together or our friendship is going to lose the closeness it has now. In truth, no matter what happens I'm going to miss this for what it's been; such an emotional rollercoaster!

And like you said, I just got to go with it.
Thanks!

Im sorry but are you a male or female

Lady Gaga.

[ShredtheGnar]

In addition to the part about how open we are about each other, I guess it's not as much as I made it sound because if it was I would just ask him. In reality, I'm afraid if I try anything and he freaks out he'll tell everyone and hate me/ I don't want to take advantage of him and would rather let him be comfortable with what happens. He's most likely in denial about his sexuality, so he is definitely sending the right signals but he's too scared to face the truth.

I find it funny that this is the only thing we aren't open about though.

[Hugger]

Thanks, it works well because we balance each other. I used to be extremely socially awkward, and he's a pretty charismatic person and I learned a few tricks from him. He can sometimes get a little carried away with himself (slightly smug), and I remind him when he is being the down to earth person I am. And I feel we have so much in common, that we can be super open to each other.

Take Wednesday for example, while I don't know exactly how I was supposed to take what he said but we are both always on the same wavelength.

I don't think it's happening, his phone got turned off by verizon so theres no way to know what he's doing unless I go to his house and it's too cold. I really need to buy a car!
Oh my gosh! My friend and I are like that. He's more out going and stuff and more of a party person! :D
And u already know this, but my friend and I haven't talked about it. :p

[ShredtheGnar]

I'm sort of freaking out right now he was just in a car accident on the way back from snowboarding with someone... I think he's ok?

[Hugger]

I'm sort of freaking out right now he was just in a car accident on the way back from snowboarding with someone... I think he's ok?

Oh my gosh, hope he's okay! Hopefully it was just a small one

[ShredtheGnar]

Oh my gosh! My friend and I are like that. He's more out going and stuff and more of a party person! :D
And u already know this, but my friend and I haven't talked about it. :p

Sorry I didn't reply to yours before. I just had a minor freak out.
Yeah, I would say he's the party person and I'm the outgoing one in our relationship. But he must mean a lot to you if you understand him that much as a person and can identify his traits like that. :)

Oh my gosh, hope he's okay! Hopefully it was just a small one

They were on the highway and slid into another oncoming car, I haven't talked to him myself but he's okay. I mean they had to be going 60 and the car had no airbags. I'm writing that off as a mini-miracle.

And of coarse he IM's me right as I'm typing this! :lol:

[Hugger]

Sorry I didn't reply to yours before. I just had a minor freak out.
Yeah, I would say he's the party person and I'm the outgoing one in our relationship. But he must mean a lot to you if you understand him that much as a person and can identify his traits like that. :)



They were on the highway and slid into another oncoming car, I haven't talked to him myself but he's okay. I mean they had to be going 60 and the car had no airbags. I'm writing that off as a mini-miracle.

And of coarse he IM's me right as I'm typing this! :lol:

XD oh my gosh, we know eachother too well sometimes. :p sometimes we know what the other is thinking! :D
And oh my gosh(again), thank God your friend is ok! He must have known u were talking about him to IM u. :p just kidding. Lol.

[DarkNick]

Thank God he's alright...
:D

[ShredtheGnar]

Yeah, me too. I want to be pissed at him right now for him and my friends sort of ditching me earlier (he was really drunk though, I don't think he realized I wasn't there for a while) but I just can't stay mad at him lol. I still have to pretend I am, though....

[Camazot]

im jealous of u ive never had a relationship even remotely close to this because i come of as gay/bi but im not a flamer...also the closest relationship ive had with a guy that was a step below best friends and he ended up not going to my highschool...after that we drifted like crazy and now i almost hate him but truthfully i love him :(...any ways i hope ur friend is okay and i would use this to take it a half a step higher because u could have lost eachother...i hope everything works out

[Christheman]

Good luck i hope you hook up with him

[DarkNick]

Any updates on the topic men!?
Please tell us!!! :P
I really wanna know how this story goes :P

[ShredtheGnar]

The whole post I just typed got deleted when I logged in, so I got to rewrite it.

[Djentleman]

First off. That was one hell of a beast post.
Second. That was one of the most interesting and impressive posts I've read here. Normally if people are writing something that lengthy, grammar and spelling tend to go out of the window, but you held it man. Anywho....


I think what you have is awesome. You're very smart by the sounds of things and have things under good control. Don't slip and fail where others have by getting impatient. you've kept your cool this long and it's proving to the advantage of your relationship. Yes there will be an eventual date when things start to become unhinged and hanging out becomes less frequent and other people get in the picture, but something tells me he is going to tell you something you won't expect. That "something" being a positive? I don't know for sure, but I do know that holding out till the day will be worth while.

If you guys do however have a relationship by the end of this, I have a feeling it might be something very strong. At the moment you're the best support he's got , so just be that support and try and stay clear of anything sexual unless it's wholly intentionally initiated by him. And if he goes in for the kiss, accept it, don't move in swell, just stay stationary with your head dead still, eyes locked on his. Like you said, you won't know if he was trying to catch you out or if he really wanted that at that moment.

I definitely want to have regular updates from you pal. Keep me posted. I'm here to talk whenever and about whatever.

[ShredtheGnar]

I definitely want to have regular updates from you pal. Keep me posted. I'm here to talk whenever and about whatever.

Thanks for your advice, the part about if and when anything is might have just saved me because I was getting impatient from the other posts and getting too excited. These last two days I think I could have fucked it up a little...

Yesterday was super confusing. The day before, I invited him over after school. In the lunch line at school, someone was showing us their cracked iPad. My friend looks over at me and says with a wink, "I'm going to crack your computer screen after school." My heart fluttered and I thought that was the sign I was looking for. I quickly put my hands in my pockets and noticed his were too.

After school we met up, and walking home from school we talked about our past friends we had drifted away from. Not really sure what brought it up, I asked him later if he was hinting something about our friendship and he said no. When we got home we smoked a little and went on a walk through the neighborhood since it was nice out.

When we got back to my house he ran up to my room and beat me there. When I got up there he was laying on my bed using my laptop. He is the one person I trust with the password, and he laughed when I walked up and I saw that he was changing it as a joke. I got on the bed and wrestled him to make him change it back, he shut my computer to lock me out and laughed and he started cuddling with me. He almost immediately grabbed my head with his legs and started pulling me towards him.

I opened the computer and tried to figure out the password. He gave me a hint, "Think about the situation." A couple minutes later I got it; he used his name. We were just surfing the web, and I saw him start to fall off the bed so I grabbed him and started to pull him back up onto it and when I did I started cuddling with him this time. A minute later he started telling me, "I don't consent."

I really didn't know how to take this, he was cuddling with me a minute earlier and when I start to with him he tells me to stop. So I got off him and pushed him off the bed to be a dick. He pulled me onto him on the way down so we were both on the floor with him so we were wrestling. I pinned him and said I he owed me to let me punch him in the face (long story), and he said if I hit him once he wouldn't stop. I said that was bullshit and tried to hold him down, and we were wrestling/cuddling again.

At one point he flipped me, and ended up on top of me. He straddled me and held me down. I eventually flipped him back, and I'm pretty sure he felt my boner with his foot. But if he did he didn't react at all. And finally he flipped me and I tried to pull myself away, so he laid on top of me. He held me down and after a minute got a blanket and started to smother me, he quickly stopped and said "That was fucked up, just kidding." He calls his friend and gets ready to leave, I pick up my phone and tell my dad to come pick me up since I had a guitar lesson.

We walk downstairs and he says he is just going to go straight home, I tell him my dad can give him a ride since his house is on the way. He tells me he would rather walk because my dad thinks he's gay, and that it's nice enough to walk. I ask him why he thinks that about my dad, and he reminds me that I told him that at my birthday dinner.

A little more background, I guess. For my birthday my family, myself, and him went to a nice restaurant. He was sort of being effeminate the whole time and my father isn't a fan of homosexuality (another problem I have) and at one point my friend said something and my dad gave him a stare. I told him that my dad thought he was gay, since my dad had asked me that once before if he was or something. I don't remember what it was exactly.

Then he reminded me of the time that we were at a fundraiser at the community center and we were sitting in the computer room and my dad walked in to talk to me for a second, and when he left he asked me if I wanted to keep the door open or not. I said I didn't care, and when he closed it my friend asked me if my dad thought we were going to hook up as a joke. My dad drove us to Starbucks from there, and on the way there the two of them had a conversation about whether tea or coffee was better. My friend was defending tea, and when we got out of the car he said my dad probably thought he was gay.

Back to yesterday, I asked him if he was sure he wanted to walk and he said yes. We said goodbye, and he left. In hindsight, I would have said that I didn't care what my dad thought and that he shouldn't either and that if my dad did think that he wouldn't treat him differently because he was my friend. But I guess that ones going in a box for a quieter time.

I called out his name, and when he looked back I took a chance and said that he knows he's gay (keeping it in the third person- good or bad?). He went on the defense and said no. Then he asked me how many girlfriends has he had this year. We bother answer "one" in unison.

He starts to ask another question, and stumbles and thinks. Then he asks, "How many girlfriends have I had together?" We both think about it for a second and I guess seven, then he thinks and looks up at me before giving me a huge grin (sort of devious) and laughing and walking away. That just confused the shit out of me. I really don't know what to make of it.

[ShredtheGnar]

First off. That was one hell of a beast post.
Second. That was one of the most interesting and impressive posts I've read here. Normally if people are writing something that lengthy, grammar and spelling tend to go out of the window, but you held it man. Anywho....


Thanks, I really appreciate your feedback. I realized that if I was going to ask someone for help I wanted to explain it as clearly as possible. And with what I'm reading, it's paid off.

[Hugger]

Sorry if we almost made you slip. But, that's pretty interesting. You could say that its something I'd do to someone that I like. :p(keep em guessing)
Your friend is probably thinking the same, infortunately I realized I cannot directly relate to your problem. But I'll help u if its needed. Oh, an you should have said that thing about "I don't care if my dad thinks your gay and you shouldn't either".
Btw: tea is better than coffee. :$

[Djentleman]

Btw: tea is better than coffee. :$

Yup, I have to agree with you there. I treat coffee purely as a stimulant, nothing more. But that's for another thread eh?

Okay so judging by those two days, it might have seemed you suffered a bit of impatient curiosity, but nothing irreparable. I think the little episode on the bed where he said "I don't consent", could have been a defence on his character that he's trying to keep up until the "The Date" if we can call it that for easy reference, or he was just not in the mood. But that's something only you could determine because you have his facial expression and tone of voice to go by. I think thats minor though, nothing to rack your brains over.

The whole "your dad thinks I'm gay" thing definitely could've been handled better by you, but we're not always on the ball, only human. Just try not to prod to much on the sexuality side of things. You don't want things to be linked up and trails to be investigated, just play it like you always have and try not to get him into a corner. He may appear readable, but like I said, you're his support, like a brother, so all that affection could be what years of trust has put him in the comfort of doing.

Keep posted :)

[ShredtheGnar]

Working in a coffee shop, I have actually really started to like expresso. But lattes are a lot of calories so I more often end up drinking a really light coffee or tea. I like them both equally.

Yeah, I still have to type up what happened last night. But I'm relieved that you don't think I messed up too bad. I realized last night that I have to watch how I act around him and be less sexual, at least until the retreat. He was telling me that he's going to meet up with that girl again this weekend (did I already say that?) and I'm making a note from that not to try and hang out with him when I know their together as to not appear to be trying to stop him.

I have a thought that he might want to at least get with a girl first before he would want to do anything with me, maybe he's been planning on coming out at the retreat if/when he acknowledges his sexuality. I'm going to go to it, and when they share secrets or whatever it is I'll make sure he goes before me and if he comes out, I will too.

I'm trying to decide whether or not I should invite him to sleep over on Friday night. He was going to meet the girl on Saturday afternoon so he's probably not doing anything before, but I have spent the last two days with him outside of school. I don't want to start getting clingy.

I know that I handled the "my dad think's I'm gay" part poorly. It caught me off guard, and I was trying to figure out why exactly he said that. But I got to go to Comp Sci- I'll report back tonight!

[Djentleman]

Yeah man, just keep your distance when he goes on the date with the girl. He needs to see how he really feels deep down about females and which orientation he swings most to. For all you know, he could be Bi but still in denial.

[ShredtheGnar]

Yeah man, just keep your distance when he goes on the date with the girl. He needs to see how he really feels deep down about females and which orientation he swings most to. For all you know, he could be Bi but still in denial.

Well about 5 minutes before you posted this I was at school. Him and I were bored at lunch so I asked if he wanted to go split a cigarette with me quick. We walked off grounds to our private smoke spot and while we were there I asked him what he was doing tomorrow. He said nothing, so I asked if he wanted to hang out. So much for keeping my distance.

I asked him what about the girl and Saturday, and he said he thought his mom was going to be home Saturday night when she was supposed to come over. I told him he should take her to a party then, they could find a quieter place to go if need be. He said it didn't really matter because he didn't think she was going to find a ride, anyways.

While I'm posting I might as well explain what happened yesterday. I had Drivers' Ed after school and had already made plans to hang out with him, I told him my class was going to get out a little after 4. He told me that he could go home for an hour after school and meet me at my house with my bike I let him borrow the other day, and from there we could walk to dinner and synagogue.

When I got out of my class, I gave him a call. He told me he was at our friends house and told me to walk over and we could leave from there. He told me he had a haircut before temple and asked me to wait with him at the hairdressers' and get dinner after, I agreed.

Side note: I don't know any other guy that would ask his friend to wait for him to get his haircut and go with him. Am I simply overanalyzing this?

Anyways, when I got there we hotboxed the garage and soon it was time for us to go. I told him to go get my bike outside and wait for me while the other person there was trying to bum a cigarette off me. I walked outside a couple minutes later, him and my bike were gone. I knew his phone was dead, so I just started walking three miles to the temple.

When I was in the area, I heard him call out behind me and I see him bike over to me. I kept walking and ignored him, I was pissed that he ditched me and made me walk alone in the cold. He kept trying to get me to talk to him, and after we were inside I told him that he ditched me. He claimed that he didn't and that he needed to take my bike to his haircut, that he wouldn't have made it if he didn't (at this point I realized that was a valid argument, but I was still pissed).

I told him to try and see the situation from my perspective, and that he would see why I was upset. He said to me he did but he didn't have a choice and that I told him he could take my bike if he needed to. That sort of pissed me off more since I didn't say that, so I walked away from him.

We were in class and didn't talk, between our classes I went up to him and asked if I could make a thirty second rant and I would be over it. I told him that he of all people knows that I have major abandonment problems (because of my father) and that he should at least have waited for me. I said I wouldn't have left without him, and that I was more upset because this was the second time in a month he had ditched me because he didn't want to wait (first time was after temple a few weeks ago, we were talking to a teacher and he didn't want to finish the conversation so he walked away from her and told me he was leaving in three minutes. He left right before I finished talking to her, so I instead had to wait 45 minutes for a teacher to drive me home). Both of these things really bothered me.

He said both times were justified. I mean, being his best friend and having my feelings for him I would never leave him like that. That only gives me more doubts about him feeling the same towards me, but the thing is he doesn't even see what he did wrong.

After that, I dropped it completely and we had fun for the rest of class. It's things like this that make me think that we're just friends and nothing more, though.

[Djentleman]

You accompanying him to the barbers is nothing man. I have a friend who's a complete homophobe straight guy and trust me e definitely is, and he asked me a few times to come with hint to the barbers before we hung out. So nothing to think about there.

Yeah he could be impatient or just a bit selfish or like you said, he probably isn't in to you that way. But that's not to say you should abandon ship and get down in the dumps. Even people in good relationships ditch the other because they're not interested or they're just impatient to do something they're eager to get out the way. Now if it becomes a regular occurrence, then the alarm bells should go off. But like 2 times isn't anything to worry about man.

[ShredtheGnar]

Thanks, when you said he probably isn't into me do you feel that this is the situation from what you've read? Is that how it appears, more so than him just being selfish? And he is a little selfish and arrogant, I think I made a comment about that before. But when it's just the two of us alone, he can be a very caring person.

As for tomorrow, should I just do as you said and avoid anything sexual if possible? If you have any good questions that might help answer this, I can try to slip them into the conversation? You appear to have a lot of knowledge in this area, so my ears are wide open for anything you have to say!

[Djentleman]

I don't know if he isn't. He's a bit hot and cold. Things could be going either way just by what you're describing. When he's cuddling and giving affection, it could be him just feeling secure and trustful in your company. He could however be testing the waters before the future secret unveiling.

Sorry if I say things you've already pointed out, my memory is terrible. But you see, if you detect some of those character flaws in him, then you shouldn't be too concerned when goes off. I'm not saying I agree with him leaving you behind, but people tend to just take heed if they can't keep their cool.

Try not to initiate any sexual moves or hints. Be playful of course, but try not to get carried away and tae it too far. If he initiates a move, take it in your stride and go with it, but don't bite his hand off and go off on one. Just accept it.

Give him a playful ass tap on occasion, not all the time, but like when you leave or enter a room when you guys are alone.

Bring up the girl issues he's having and sympathise with him. i'm sure you do already, but it doesn't hurt to see what his stance on the constant rejection from the opposite sex is like. Maybe ask him more about the retreat. Ask him what he thought about the people after they came out there. Just curious, how old are both of you?

[ShredtheGnar]

At the whole hot and cold thing, I totally agree. I've been trying to figure it out for the longest time before I finally realized I need some form of support and found this forum. As for his character flaws, I guess that you're right about me not being too concerned. Just because it's something I would never do doesn't mean other people's minds don't work differently.

I'll try not to let anything get too out of control, haha. We usually end up wrestling and beating the crap out of each other before it turns into cuddling, anyways. If he does start initiating anything, by go with it do you mean just let him do whatever or should I do something too to encourage him? As for the ass taps, he does them to me occasionally but I am realizing now that I've never done anything like that to him.

The girl issues would be a good topic to talk about, I really want to know what he's thinking and I'll report back if anything interesting is said. I feel like I would be hesitant to ask him about the retreat because if he does turn out to be straight, that will make him start thinking more and possibly putting the puzzle pieces together. I'll remember it if he initiates anything though, at that point I think I would feel comfortable enough asking.

We're both 16, I'm turning 17 in a little less than two months.

[Djentleman]

Well that's good. Me and my friend used to give each other little pats on the ass sometimes little cock taps as well, but that's something you do if you're comfortable with. At the end of the day you're only be buddy buddy with each other, so he'll understand.

What I mean by "go with it" is to just let whatever happens happen basically. Say for instance he was to start playfully grinding on you during wrestling, don't push him off and act pissed, but sort of laugh at it and maybe even jokingly threaten him back with it. You know. Take whatever he offers in your stride and not something that you think might be a legit move. It's just fun and games.

Don't ask him anything you don't feel comfortable with. If you have any doubts before saying something, then don't say it. That's your gut instinct, go with it.

Reason I asked your ages was because I wanted to know what stage you guys were in your life and how far til you start maturing out of the hormonal phase. For now he could be cuddling and wrestling, but in a year, all that could possibly stop. So it just makes things more clearer for me.

Who's the mature one out of you two? Who messes around with the other first and who's the on who sorts of snaps the situation back into reality first? Sorry if you've pointed it out already.

[ShredtheGnar]

Alright, I'll go with it haha. I'll remember to go by my gut instinct, too.

So what you're saying by the hormonal phases is that if this goes on for another year or so, out of that phase, it's more likely that there's something there?

I would say we both start it equally, and I usually wait for him to stop and snap it back to reality, as you say.

[Djentleman]

Yeah that could possible mean that all the play fighting and whatnot ends then. Everyone's mindset changes as they age and they begin to think differently. But if none of this changes, then you've got a keeper man. Obviously you'll find out where you stand before then, so don't worry about then.

Okay, so just go with the flow then like I said earlier and wait for him to end whatever it is that has started. And good luck :)

Tell me how everything goes bud!

[Camazot]

first of all i have been reading your posts for awhile. second i have a friend thats just like this. Alex and law, i guess 2 friends lol. anyways they both do pretty much everything u say u do but 10 times more sexual and no physical wrestleing. they told me once that they were spooning (holding each other really closely) for like and hour. they also sleep together in the same bed. but its not just the holding each other. they also rub on eachother sexually too like on their legs and asses and chests.

i dont go to school with alex and when i did in our band class we would sit next to each other. we would do pretty much the same stuff. ie: rubbing legs (getting very close to the groinal region), almost kissing, hugging eachother, squeezing each others asses. and he claimed to be completely straight. i had/have a complete crush on him.

at a recent school dance he came behind me and started to pretty much make me grind on him.(he came to the dance although he goes to a diff school) i loved it, but i stopped after 30 seconds (or less) and pulled a girl between us. i did that because i didnt want him to think i really liked it.

later that night i texted him and said "wasnt that funny when we were rubbing together on that girl and the teacher told YOU to cool it down but not the girl and me."
he said "no that was just awkward."
i said "no what was awkward was when u made me grind on u. "
he said "no it wasnt i loved it." i then asked if he was bi ( more hinted if he was bi.
he said he wasnt and that he was just joking
and right before that he told me slmthing that reallyy seemed that he was because it was something that would be more emotionally bi than physically bi like he normally is. y
thats why i asked

he also periodically throughout the night would take his finger and run it through my ass. i did it back too him.

now since he went to a different highschool i tried to keep in touch with him as much as possible but he didnt have a cell and i dont have a facebook. so we drifted ALOT. i really miss him

anyways i tell u this because although he does stuff he still very much claims hes straight and not even bi-curious. sometimes i think he is well alot of the time. also one day in track two years ago when we went to middle school we started playing a game of nervous. but it was to the extreme. we were rubbing eachothers bodies from head to knees and he kept moving his had across my groinal region and i did it to him a couple of times. that went on for like 5 min. (i also loved) well we did that in front of the entire track team. and a coupleof weeks before that we were late to practice. so we were the only ones in the locker room and when we were changing i changed faster and was tying my shoes so looking at the ground and he told me to look up. when i did he was still in his boxers and as soon as i looked at him he pulled the bottom of his boxers up and the head of his penis came out. he didnt pull them up very fast and i just watched the whole time. after i saw it he immediately pulled them back down got dressed and we went to practice and i mentioned it in a small group with him and he completely denied it.

again i tell u this because hes always acting really gay but always goes back to being straight. and i think your friend is kinda of like that...and lastly me and him barely talk now a days. even if we are together (hanging out) :(


oh and law does it too but its never been more than a hug with some ass squeezing. i dont really like it from him, because hes not very good looking and it just seems weird with him.

sorry if that was really long and didt make sense

[ShredtheGnar]

So it's been a couple weeks, and some more stuff had been happening. Enough to drive me further away again, and honestly our friendship itself has been getting a little rocky with my feelings towards him and his possible feelings towards me aside. Our group of friends is having a sort of falling out with each other, and with everyone picking sides and fighting with each other it's been making things difficult.

Starting around the same point where I left off, he was changing his behavior towards me and the cuddling and whatnot stopped for a while. Last weekend, us and a couple other friends stayed at his house and chilled on Friday night. We were all high as sh*t and it turned out to be a pretty fun night. Saturday morning after everyone else left, we hung out at his house for a while and found out about a party that night.

I called work and switched shifts so I could go (lucky me, my co-worker asked if I would switch for two weekends). His mom was going to come home a a little while and then leave again for the night, we walked over to my house before she got home and hung out in my room. We were wrestling for a couple minutes but nothing sexual happened. He was talking about that girl again, but I'm going to rant about her later. I'm certain she's leading him on; just like the others.

Sort of off topic, sort of important to the situation but I'm going to give a quick rundown of the party. It was actually pretty crazy.

About 6pm his friend picked us up and brought us back to his house so they could grab the beerpong table that got stashed there after his last party. I told him beforehand that I had to take a shower and get ready before so he said I could take a shower at his place while he went with the other guy to drop off the table. He said he would call me when he met up with our friends and we would plan everything out.

After they left, I took a shower and got ready. I had just got my laptop out of my bag and was about to post here when the doorbell rang, I went to answer it and him along with a few of our friends jumped out and scared me. Almost sh*t my pants, no joke.

We hung out at his place for an hour before the party was going to start. At one point he looks at me and states, "You jacked off in my house." I denied it, but I was actually lying (c'mon, I hadn't in four days!) :whoops::P:lol:. He gave me an amused look like he knew I was lying, but he didn't say anything.

We left and went to the party, a few blocks away him and one of our friends went to go meet someone quick, everyone else including myself chilled at the park for about twenty minutes before seeing our other friends drive by on their way to the party. We chased them down and went in with them rather than wait for my friend, our original invite.

Once inside, I saw my friends ex-girlfriend. I quickly concealed the grin on my face and pointed her out to everyone. We all knew that something was going to happen. She quickly came up to us and asked us if he was coming, we really didn't answer her and just started doing our own things.

I was in the basement watching people play beer pong and heard one of my friends mention how his ex instantly asked about my friend. I said it was really funny, then one of her female friends chimes in with a story about how when they first started going out she was making out with him and he literally had to stop her from trying to have sex with him because she was so horny. That immediately grabbed my attention, since the one thing he wouldn't shut up about the whole time they were dating was how badly he wanted to screw her.

Finally he got there and us and a few guys rolled up some blunts and chilled out on the deck. We went back inside and him and our friend decided to hit the beer bong (I declined, as I always get a headache if I drink half a beer and I had a feeling I might end up needing to be DD for my friends who drove since it was 9:30 and they were already shitfaced).

After we went to the basement and watched people playing beer pong, again. At one point he started freestyle rapping next to me, I really didn't pay much attention to it but the last line was "you can blow me." I kept facing forward and pretended I didn't hear it to avoid any awkward, but out of the corner of my eye I saw him looking at me as if to gauge a reaction. I didn't give any to stay on the safe side and he asked if I thought it was a good freestyle, I said yes.

We kept watching the game and a minute later I casually asked him if he was drunk, he said no. He asked why, I said I was just wondering.

As the night went on the party got pretty rowdy, I just chilled and watched people get pissed at each other being the kind of person that doesn't like to get involved in stupid teenage drama. A 30 rack got stolen out from under someone's car and everyone immediately accused the biggest douchebag at the party (who most likely did steal it) and a fight almost broke out. Luckily, it was quickly diffused and the kid got thrown out of the party.

I guess the kid got pissed after he was kicked out, since a half hour later the guy who had his beer stolen ran into the house shouting he was calling the cops since someone smashed the mirror on his car. Everyone in the living room scattered like cockroaches and I ran outside and dove under my friends car. I watched the guy whos mirror was smashed shouting shit like, "THIS IS A SIXTY F*CKING THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR! WHO DO THESE F*CKERS THINK THEY ARE!?!?" and, "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO MY FATHER IS!?!?"

I frankly found it hilarious, and watched him destroy the hosts front lawn breaking shit while having a major temper tantrum. I realized my friends hadn't come outside yet, and I saw my friend and everyone who walked with us run by me. I got out from under the car and asked where they were going, they said back to one of their houses. I told them to wait and we could all get a ride from the two guys who drove.

They said no and went their way, I waited a couple more minutes before realizing the driver and the other guy hadn't come out of the house yet. I realized they were most likely passed out in the basement and ran back to the house to get them. The front door was locked so I ran around and right before I jump the fence I see the guy who supposedly smashed the mirror standing alongside the fence looking at what's going on in the street.

I hop the fence and he see's me. He tells me I need to help him get the f*ck out of there, I tell him to wait while I get my friends and we'll give him a ride. He tells me to run with him and he runs to hop the back fence, I don't follow him. He hops the fence and I hear him hit the ground followed by him screaming hysterically. I figured he landed on his face or something and that it served him right, and proceeded to reenter the house.

As I go up to the back door, the host's friend was locking the door so I ripped open the door and pushed her over and ran to the basement to get my friends. I run down there to see them watching TV with another guy and I said we needed to go since the cops were coming. They jumped up and asked if I was serious, I said yeah and we ran. The other guy just sat there not entirely sure what was happening.

While running out of the house, I asked if either of them were good to drive. Both of them thought about it, one said yes but the fact he had to think about it says otherwise. I told them I was sober and could drive, they almost let me too (I was actually looking forward to driving an Audi) but last second decided that we should run. We ran out the same way as the guy that fell on his face, and ran for a good 3/4 of a mile before stopping.

The guy that said he was good to drive back at the house looked at me and said he knew he was still drunk then because it was below freezing and his hands weren't cold at all- LET THAT BE A LESSON TO ALL OF YOU.

We figured it would be better to walk back and at least move the car off the street before the cops got there so we slowly made our way back being careful to stay clear of headlights on the street. I was much happier I ended up with the my most ambitious/smartest friends instead of the others because they too gave a sh*t about not getting caught by the cops and possibly f*cking up their lives.

Back at the house, we slowly got into the car our less drunk friend drove it around the block with me riding shotgun to direct him. It was only half a mile and we didn't go above 15 (yeah it took like five minutes) but that was still one of my stupidest decisions ever. But he figured he was the one with the license and the other guy and myself only had our permits. Not trying to rationalize letting a person drive a car drunk, that was his own reasoning. I argued with him extensively about it. :(

So that's that, maybe someone got a little thrill or excitement out of reading that since I sure did. But the important part to it is how my friend was acting earlier in the night, and what happened with him and his girlfriend. I'm still way behind on everything, but I'm too tired to write now so the rest will have to wait until most likely tomorrow.

[Djentleman]

Man, I love reading your stories but the situation you're in sucks.

Ill give my assessment after your next entry just to make sure I know what I think is right.

[DarkNick]

Yeah!
I love those teenage american life stories!!!! :P
You still are in a pretty frustating situation...
Stay calm!
I think he obviously looks for some signs from you more than words from you...
ah...ppl are strange!!! :P

[ShredtheGnar]

Thanks, Djentleman and Nick. I'm eagerly awaiting your responses to this post!

So after the whole ordeal last Saturday, I went to work Sunday afternoon. Him and I talked a little more that night and I said I would be able to go to the concert he and our friends were going to this past weekend since my shift was also changed for that day. It worked out since the person who was driving didn't have money to buy his ticket at the time so I bought both of ours and he's paying me back on Thursday.

This past week he started hanging out with some hood kids, to the minor disproval of myself and our friends. I honestly don't not like them, but I just know their going to cause trouble for all of us if we're hanging out with them. No one besides myself wants to hang out with him and them together, so on Friday I chilled and drove around with them.

After chilling with them for a while we were driven back to his house since he had to get ready for a double date with him and the girl he was talking about, and our friend and one of her friends. He showed me a bowl he was going to sell her, and told me she was selling him her ticket for the concert since she suddenly found out she couldn't go. I asked if he was still staying over at my house afterwards, he said he thought so. We agreed to figure out where we were staying after the concert the next night.

I left before he did, and later that night I called him to find out when he was coming over. He said he was going to stay in the hood for a while with his new friends and would call me when he left (if I haven't mentioned it we live in the suburbs outside a smaller city). I asked how the date went, he said not so well since the girls decided to go to a chick flick rather than wait for him and our friend. The met up for like five minutes halfway through the movie before her parents came and got the girls. He told me that she didn't have enough money for the bowl and he ended up losing some money and that she sold the ticket without telling him.

I told him that sounded pretty shitty, and he made a stupid excuse to cover for her. But we both know that she honestly didn't give a shit to make an effort for him, and how that night played out was enough to convince me that she isn't as into him as she said. This is the same girl that was texting him how she wanted to have sex with him the week before. The night resulted in him being lead on and ditching me (again) for his new friends.

Saturday morning my mom dropped me off at his house, I had packed my backpack thinking I was going to stay there for the night. When I got there he showed me his new bong his hood friends got for him and I offered to pack it a couple times. After we finished a quick smoke sesh we were in the living room chilling on the couch. At one point he got up and started walking to the kitchen to get ready to make lunch for us.

He told me I wouldn't get anything to eat unless I helped him. I responded jokingly, "F*ck you." He paused a second before saying, "F*ck me? Alright." and he pulled down his jeans and boxers and bent over. I looked away, and he said "C'mon, f*ck me!" He sounded sort of serious, but after a minute of me not looking and telling to pull up his pants up he started laughing and said he was kidding.

Then he walked over to me and asked if I had seen his "seductive dance." I said I hadn't, and he told me I needed to see it. He walked out of the room and came back and started... well, seductive dancing. I started dying with laughter and he kept doing it across the coffee table. He started pulling off his shirt, and after that he did it for another minute before stopping. He told me that if he did it for the girl he was talking about that she would be laughing her ass off at that point (sort of how I was?). He didn't take off any more clothes besides the shirt and after that everything went back to normal, if that's what you would call it.

I have more to type including what happened at the concert, but I have a guitar lesson in a couple minutes. I'll finish my post later tonight. Thanks, everyone!

[ShredtheGnar]

Yeah!
I love those teenage american life stories!!!! :P

Lmao, these past few weeks feel as if they were written by a team of writers. It's actually pretty awesome that my life is interesting for once, to be honest. But I don't want to get carried away with myself and get into trouble, it's my junior year of high school and if I screw up now I'll be kicking myself for the rest of my life.

As I said, I was happy I ended up with my smart friends after the party. My friend is also pretty smart and should lean towards that side of the spectrum, but as I said he get's carried away with himself. I just don't want his ego and quest to be a bad ass cause him to screw up. Our smart friends are actually cooler than us, in all honesty.

Back to the story, after that very confusing morning the hood kids came over and we chilled at my friends house for a little while before going to to their turf so they could pick up some weed for the us to bring to the concert. Like I said, I think their okay but I would rather not go into the city. They dropped us off so we could meet up with Sexual Deviant friend and from there be picked up by the driver and our smart friends to go to the concert.

Side note: After they left I noticed one of the hood kids copped my lighter.

While we were waiting for our friend, my friend told me we he was actually going to stay at his house tonight. I told him that complicated things for me since he had already agreed to either sleep at my house or for us to sleep at his house. I was annoyed by this, since all of my stuff was at his house including my laptop. And last time I left my laptop at his house his mom's boyfriend's kids threw it and damaged it ($2000 MacBook Pro that I saved for).

He said he's going to tell his mom and try to make her boyfriend pay to have it repaired or replaced.

He said he had already promised him earlier in the week. I knew that he didn't since last night he told me he hadn't given our friend an answer yet. But I don't want to argue with him, so I accepted it. He met up with us and we had a conversation about how he's done with his best friend, a good friend of ours. Like I said, our group has been falling apart this week and it really sucks.

We got picked up, and I figured me not staying at my friend's house was better because I my mom wouldn't be as sketched as she was about me going. We chilled at our smart friend's house together (their step brothers) and then went to the concert. The driver decided he wanted to get drunk at the show so he asked his mom to drive, another thing that turned out for the better. We got to the show and started doing our own thing. Sexual Deviant friend asked us if my friend and I would go with him to find girls to dance with at some point, we both agreed.

A guy came up to us and offered us Molly and we thought why not. Not recommending to do it, we were curious. Sexual Deviant friend abandoned us, as well as everyone else leaving my friend and I together. We went outside and smoked a couple cigarettes on the come up. And if anyone want's my honest opinion on it, it's not anywhere near as amazing as people say. And I did two, I was definitely feeling it.

Again, not recommending drug use. Just thought I would throw it out there if anyone's interested.

But the funny thing is that my friend was so excited to get with mad girls that night, and he didn't dance with a single one. I tried to dance with a couple but it didn't really work out since one rejected me and the other jumped away from me and started making out with a girl :yeah:.

Instead, we didn't leave each other's side all night. Both of us made some friends there and met some people who helped organize the show, so it was pretty cool. The show itself was probably one of the best concert's I've been to. I guess this isn't a very important part of the story, but I felt that it's worth mentioning that the two of us stayed together like that.

And on the drive home from the show I puked in my mouth five times, not from the drugs but rather me drinking too much water. Ironically, to try and prevent dehydration and getting sick. Guess I learned my lesson from that.

[ShredtheGnar]

first of all i have been reading your posts for awhile. second i have a friend thats just like this. Alex and law, i guess 2 friends lol. anyways they both do pretty much everything u say u do but 10 times more sexual and no physical wrestleing. they told me once that they were spooning (holding each other really closely) for like and hour. they also sleep together in the same bed. but its not just the holding each other. they also rub on eachother sexually too like on their legs and asses and chests.

i dont go to school with alex and when i did in our band class we would sit next to each other. we would do pretty much the same stuff. ie: rubbing legs (getting very close to the groinal region), almost kissing, hugging eachother, squeezing each others asses. and he claimed to be completely straight. i had/have a complete crush on him.

at a recent school dance he came behind me and started to pretty much make me grind on him.(he came to the dance although he goes to a diff school) i loved it, but i stopped after 30 seconds (or less) and pulled a girl between us. i did that because i didnt want him to think i really liked it.

later that night i texted him and said "wasnt that funny when we were rubbing together on that girl and the teacher told YOU to cool it down but not the girl and me."
he said "no that was just awkward."
i said "no what was awkward was when u made me grind on u. "
he said "no it wasnt i loved it." i then asked if he was bi ( more hinted if he was bi.
he said he wasnt and that he was just joking
and right before that he told me slmthing that reallyy seemed that he was because it was something that would be more emotionally bi than physically bi like he normally is. y
thats why i asked

he also periodically throughout the night would take his finger and run it through my ass. i did it back too him.

now since he went to a different highschool i tried to keep in touch with him as much as possible but he didnt have a cell and i dont have a facebook. so we drifted ALOT. i really miss him

anyways i tell u this because although he does stuff he still very much claims hes straight and not even bi-curious. sometimes i think he is well alot of the time. also one day in track two years ago when we went to middle school we started playing a game of nervous. but it was to the extreme. we were rubbing eachothers bodies from head to knees and he kept moving his had across my groinal region and i did it to him a couple of times. that went on for like 5 min. (i also loved) well we did that in front of the entire track team. and a coupleof weeks before that we were late to practice. so we were the only ones in the locker room and when we were changing i changed faster and was tying my shoes so looking at the ground and he told me to look up. when i did he was still in his boxers and as soon as i looked at him he pulled the bottom of his boxers up and the head of his penis came out. he didnt pull them up very fast and i just watched the whole time. after i saw it he immediately pulled them back down got dressed and we went to practice and i mentioned it in a small group with him and he completely denied it.


Well it sounds like your first friend might be in denial, that is definitely much more sexual than my friend and I are. The fact that it was in public says something to the nature of it too. Not to mention it sounded like he got embarrassed when you mentioned the part about him flashing you to your friends. My friend has been making jokes about me liking to be choked after I said that to him around our friends, but they don't know what it's stemming from. I've just been going with it, don't want to give him the satisfaction of embarrassing me. You say you don't have a Facebook, but that's definitely enough of a reason to get one, dude! I'll repeat to you the general advice I've been getting; be patient and let him warm up to you. He may just surprise you at some point.

[ShredtheGnar]

Man, I love reading your stories but the situation you're in sucks.

Ill give my assessment after your next entry just to make sure I know what I think is right.

Alright, let's hear it man!

[Djentleman]

Alright! So things are only getting more and more complicated by the day for you, hey? i'm glad I'm not in your shoes, because all of those signals and situations would have put me into a right state, so I congratulate you sir on being strong willed and strong minded.

He's still playing the card close to his chest but it just seems to me now like he wants to know what your story is. I don't know if he's testing you in some cases to get what your thoughts might be on what he might potentially feel or if he is just being a lad and messing. The whole "pants down, screw me" episode was interesting but something that's too unreadable. That could be any which way. But I will say this: None of straight people I know, even if they were very very close to me, have done that, even as a joke. So that could have been an invitation for some casual fun on your part as well.

I think you might be playing it a bit too safe and you're not letting the reigns loose enough to have a bit of fun him. that's only my opinion and I would have probably played it back to him a little as a gesture that you could be just as daring/playful as he is.

It's grim about the throwing up incident, but it's great you're okay and haven't come out in a bad way. It's also grim how everything in your social circle is turning out like. This might be the time where you begin to split off into smaller sections and the meeting of those new people could possibly be the start of a new circle. But I know you knew that already.

Anyways, stick with him bud and stay patient. Those little actions he does could possibly be him indadvertedly reaching out to you with his sexuality, and it might have been him going "screw it! I'm going for it and if it fails, then it'll be a joke". He might be going through exactly the same thing you're going through!

Stay tight man.

P.S: You should've had a peek ;)

[DarkNick]

I think that the guys are right...
I would say the same things to you.. :P
(I'm last I guess :( )
I'll try to keep up with the story (/spam refresh button! :P)
and I know your I love that my life is extreme feeling! :P
It's interesting...but not all the time! :P

[Camazot]

yeah i know what u mean but i think hes mad at me hopefully our relationship builds this weekend because its been falling apart.
and can you use ur friend's name because its kinda hard to tell hoo is who when ur talking about more than 2 friends.

[Human]

seems like he likes you...

[ShredtheGnar]

Well I thought that this weekend would help solve a few problems, but it's actually made everything about twelve times more confusing. I have readjusted my thoughts about what his deal is, and I'm falling back to my previous conclusion that he is bi but in denial.

Really, really, deep denial. But I'll do a writeup later, I think the big question on my mind is should I help him become comfortable with himself, or for the sake of our friendship let him be and possibly never come to terms with it? If I do keep probing, I'm afraid that he's going to end up resenting/blaming/hating me if I do get him to admit he is in fact gay/bi.

[Camazot]

well when is the retreat thingy?
i think u should wait till then and try not to probe too much anymore.

[ShredtheGnar]

My post just got deleted when I posted again, so I'll retype tomorrow. But I haven't forgotten about this thread! My situation has gotten a little more heated, so keep an eye out. By the way, a site admin might want to fix a glitch where posts are lost after logging in. It's caused me way too many problems.

[Djentleman]

Harsh man, that's annoying. Sounds good man, take your time and chat soon.

[wonk]

i love my bff but she likes another guy
:\

[Abigballofdust]

Just a heads up as a small offtopic: never type your posts in here. Type them in word and then c/p them here.
There's a lot that can go wrong, from accidentally closing your open tab to crashing browsers or forumside glitches.
On topic: like your stories, keep them coming. Wish you all the best.

[ShredtheGnar]

Thanks, Dust. I'm typing this post up in Open Office to prevent a repeat of that. Pretty frustrating sh*t. But as for him and I, things are getting even more confusing and he is definitely sure of something. What that is, I'm not sure. And the retreat is not too far away, so I might be getting my answer sooner than I thought. Right now, I think the conclusion is one of two things;

1. He's actually completely straight and all my speculation is false, he may or may not know I'm straight. If he knows, he either is trying to out me or he doesn't care and still wants to be friends. I have been trying to figure this out, by gauging how close we are now compared to a few weeks ago. I started spending a lot of time with him, and he isn't making any effort to get out of hanging out with me.

2. He is bi or gay, and one or both of us really doesn't want to admit it. I think that I might be subconsciously giving wrong signals at times, and that he might be getting angry at me because I haven't made any drastic move. I'm starting to have more doubts that this is the case, though.

Picking up where the thread left off three weeks ago, I spent the Friday before February break over at his house while his Mom was away. I had just picked up some pot from our smart Audi driving friends, and he wanted to break in his new bong. I lost count of how many bowls I packed, but it was somewhere in the vicinity of two grams.

We were hanging out in the living room afterwards, watching Netflix on the couch. At one point he placed his legs onto my lap, I relaxed a little more remembering the advice I've been getting here to be more playful and start massaging his feet. He started getting into it too, rhythmically moving his feet in the motion of my hand. I look over at him to gauge his reaction, his eyes are closed and he looks relaxed.

Seeing he's okay with it, I decide to be a little more daring and I try to turn so I can let him take my feet, too. I move them by his face so he can't ignore them, and he pushes them away without taking them. I tried again and the same thing happened. His eyes were still closed but he looked more frustrated so I stopped. We both lay basically on top of each other for a while, head to foot. He shifted onto his side, and I repositioned myself so we were in more of a cuddling position. I fell asleep for a few minutes, thinking he was too but a minute later his phone rang and he picked up. I could see he was awake the whole time.

After he got off the phone, we both got up and headed to the bedroom for another smoke sesh when his phone rang again. On the phone were a couple kids he's friendly with, driving around looking for heads to chill with. We met up with them and cruised around town before heading back to his condominium complex to hotbox their car in the parking lot. We did just that, but both of us were in the backseat not really enjoying ourselves. He saw that I wanted to leave and started motioning for me to say goodbye, but I didn't understand him immediately.

The whole time we were communicating through eye contact, and he whispered to me that I needed to get out first so the other guys wouldn't invite themselves inside, too. I failed on my first try, blurting out something along the lines of “I have to use the bathroom.” The guys in the front looked at me like I was stupid and he cracked up laughing. I too found it pretty funny, and a minute later I made another move to say goodbye, him and I left and walked back to his place.

Realizing he wanted to be at his place with just me made me a little excited, and when we got back inside we started getting ready for bed. When I walked into his room, I was expecting to sleep in his bed with him but I saw him throwing some blankets onto the floor next to him for me to sleep in. A little disappointed, I got into bed and we laughed a bit more at what happened in the car before going to sleep.

In the morning, him and I woke up had a wake and bake before going back into the living room. I'm not exactly sure what happened, but at one point he started running away and I ran after him and he ended up getting cornered. He started swinging at me, and I swung back and asked him what he was doing. He asked me if I didn't think he knew what I was trying to do. In context, he basically said that I was trying to make him gay. What he actually said was that I was trying to make him into a very flamboyant person at our school. I immediately backed away and went back to sit on the couch.

Edit: "very flamboyant person at our school" is censoring the name of a person at our school.

He came into the living room a minute later and sat down next to me and we were quiet for a minute. Next person to speak was him, asking me how high I was. I said very, an over exaggeration to try and divert any uncomfortable conversation away. A few minutes later we were talking again, and nothing out of the ordinary happened after that.

That confused me even more, and I thought for a while that was him telling me to stop making moves on him. I felt pretty horrible, but then as he didn't express any anger towards me I thought that maybe he was embarrassed or something else. But the speculating tends to make me too daring, so maybe I should take that for how I originally comprehended it.

Fast forward to Wednesday night, a good friend of ours stayed over at my house for the night. He met us at my house in the morning, and we hung out there for the day. Thursday's he usually goes to his Dad's, so him and our friend decided to walk back to their houses together. After they left, Sexual Deviant friend calls me asking if I want to hang out with him and a couple more people.

When I met up with him and a couple more of our friends, I saw that he was there too. He saw Sexual Deviant friend and everyone else on the walk home and met up with them. We started walking to Sexual Deviant's house and my Friend said goodbye to me. I told him that I was coming too, and he gave me a look and asked if I was inviting myself. I said no, that our friend invited me to his house. He sort of ignored me and walked inside, leaving me confused and upset. Was he trying to ditch me?

When we all went inside, I didn't really try to have a conversation with him and instead talked to another friend of ours showing him my weed I had just bought (Blue Dream is so pretty) and he offered to match me on a bowl with some purple stuff he had. I agreed, and all of us proceeded to get high. Amidst this, I was texting one of our smart friends. He asked me if I was interested in going snowboarding the next day, I said definitely.

I asked who we would go with, he suggested I ask my friend. I gave the phone to him so he could read the text for himself, and when he gave it back to me he had typed two penises facing each other, but didn't send it. He looked at me and started giggling, when I saw it I immediately deleted it. A couple minutes later he asked me if I saw his reply, I said no and when he told me to look at it I said I couldn't find it. I asked him if he wanted to go snowboarding, and he didn't give me a response. I asked him if he was still planning on staying at his Dad's, and again he didn't say anything.

An hour or so later we had to leave, so him and I walked towards the street. I said goodbye, figuring his text meant that he knew I was gay and that he knew what I wanted to do that night. But instead he started walking in the direction of my house. A minute later of walking I asked him if he was going home, he looked at me and flatly asked if he could sleepover at my house. I said okay. My heart started racing as I took these signals in a completely different way now, thinking that he was basically saying we were going to do something and that I simply hadn't caught on yet.

When we got to my house and went upstairs, we both sat down on my bed and started surfing the web on my laptop. For some reason he suggested we play Rock, Paper, Scissors for something, what it was I don't remember. Every time we threw our hands, he would very slowly and softly touch my hands; when I had paper and him scissors he looked into my eyes while slowly closing his fingers on my hand. He looked like he was very happy when his fingers eventually closed.

After that was finished I got up to get the remote, and he asked if I wanted to play again. I said sure, and he quickly laughed and said no. It was pretty crushing being convinced something was about to happen only for him to do that, but whatever. Later on I took a chance and threw my arm over him, and he put his arm over mine. I rested my head on his chest and relaxed, he didn't mind. When I tried to get up he started punching me in the back and holding me onto him, so I stayed. The same thing happened a couple more times, I stayed. I was so confused because if I tried to get away from him he hit me, so I feel like he didn't want me to get off him. But when I realized this and started pulling him closer and looked him in the eyes, he hit me more.

All this did was confuse me more, and the thought started forming in my head that maybe he doesn't want to express his feelings towards me out of fear, but he also wanted me on top of him. The worst part of it was that night when we were sleeping in my bed, I kept finding myself curling up to him in my sleep. But every time I did he would start hitting me to get me off. If he's straight, I would feel pretty badly for how strange I must have made that for him.

Fast forward to last weekend, when him and I decided to go to another party. It was insane, until college kids showed up and tried to fight some seniors. My little sister was there with her freshman friends, and when kids started shouting at her for trying to fill her water bottle at the keg I gave her my cup (I had three beers socially at that point, wasn't in the mood to get drunk). Him and I ended up with each other most of the night, while I made an effort not to smother him he would come back towards me. I took that as a positive sign, and it seemed like he was trying to get us alone at a few points.

The cops busted it at 1:30 in the morning, while him and I were in the backyard smoking a cigarette. I heard car doors slam, and saw flashlight beams on the side of the house. I said the cops were here, and our smart friend told me to shut up and that it was fine. But a guy and his girlfriend were walking around the side of the house and when he saw us, warned the cops were coming around the house.

We booked into the woods behind the house, running on a trail until we came out on another street. I was with him, and our smart friend went the other way eventually ending up at our pre-determined meeting spot (everyone told me I was stupid for making a meeting spot, so it was pretty satisfying to be right). Unfortunately, my little sister was at the party too; if I had known she was there I wouldn't have gone. She was driven home in a police car, and she instantly told my parents I was there not sparing details (me smoking and drinking).

My mom called me freaking out, and I knew I was screwed because I told her I was staying at his house for the night. But the stupid part is that was only the second time I had lied to her, the other being the night of the other party I talked about a few weeks back. And I really did learn my lesson that night being chased through the woods by cops, and again when we were trying to make our way back into town. By that time we had met up with a few more people, and some others had people pick them up and got out of there.

But my mom still let me stay out, after I told her him and I were spending the night at a friends house, making it clear they weren't at the party. Somehow she was okay with that, and when I tried to call our friend and see if we could sleepover he didn't pick up. When we were on the phone, she asked me if him and I wanted her to pick us up and that we could stay at my house. He said no, but later he would regret that.


We stopped at an apartment complex to plan an escape route, breaking into an empty laundry room to roll a joint thinking that this would suck a little less if we were high. I rolled one up, and another kid we were with decided to try and steal a yard chair he found in the laundry room. When we got out, we walked onto the road thinking that we would try and cut across the highway without being seen by cops since they wouldn't be searching in that neighborhood.

I was in the process of lighting the joint when a cop car pulled up to the intersection and it's spotlight went on us. It started turning around the corner and we started running the other way back into the apartments to see another cruiser pulling up the other way with it's lights on. We turned again and ran into the woods, I went another way separate from the others. I ran to the top of the hill and hid my pot in a tree in case I got caught and waited by the road. Luckily, everyone with the exception of two of the people we were with made it.

The other two hid under a bush while the police searched the apartments for three hours, walking by them multiple times totally clueless!

We went down the street before cutting into more woods and called around for a ride out of there. Eventually, one of his hood friends picked us up and we slept in the unlocked post office across town. Like I said, I learned my lesson. But unfortunately, my mom seems to think otherwise. She told me I'm no longer allowed to stay at my friend's houses overnight and I'm currently grounded.

But last night she said it was okay for him to stay over. I made her promise me that she wouldn't tell his mom about the party, and after a few hours of arguing she gave in. A few hours after he got to my house, our smart friends called him and asked if he wanted to go to a party. I didn't want to ruin his night making him stay at my house, so I lied to my mom again telling her that his mom was coming to pick him up so he could do a school project in the morning.

She didn't completely buy it, and she made it clear to me today that she trusts me less now. But he didn't even end up going, so then he tried to get me to convince my mom to let another friend of ours stay over, too. At this point I felt used, and I had already tried to convince her to let our friend stay earlier but she said no. I tried again with the same result.

We hung out in my room for a while, he didn't want to smoke when I offered to pack a bowl because he was afraid of my mom catching us. She had already accused us smoking earlier that night, but we weren't then but that was still enough for him to be too sketched out. I made a comment to him about a porn video he showed me earlier in the week, telling him it was mad good. I found it and started watching it on my laptop next to him, we watched it for a few minutes and skipped around. He told me that it would be a nice start to my collection. When it was time to go to sleep, we got into my bed and after a minute he asked me for a blanket to sleep on the floor. He always sleeps in my bed with me, so I thought this was strange. I remembered after our friend stayed at my house (as mentioned earlier) he brought up how comfortable he was sleeping in my beanbag chair with blankets.

He asked me why I never gave him blankets before, and I reminded him of when he told me that he would rather spoon me. He instantly went on the defensive, saying that Sexual Deviant friend probably said that when he tried to rape me. I said that I knew he said it and he denied it again, and I left it at that. We were watching Tosh.0 when I got bored at started throwing my pillows at him. He didn't respond, so I threw some blankets on him and pounced on him.

He was smiling and I tried to grab my blankets from him, but he wouldn't let go. So I got on top of him and tried to pin him so I could take them away. We started wrestling each other, and he eventually pinned me in a sleeper hold (keep in mind he knows I like being choked). I tried to get away and he asked if I was done, I said no. So he punched me in the head; hard. Hard enough for me to find a few red spots and bruises on my face this morning. He finally stopped and started straddling me, he lay down on top of me and we stayed like that for a while.

I tried to get away and tried to hit him back, he told me if I didn't stop now that he wasn't going to. I ignored the warning, and he pulled me by my hair and threw me into the chair and hit me more. I told him to stop, and he got defensive again telling me that every time he stays over at my house I attack him while he's trying to go to sleep, then he asks me how I would like that being done to me. I got up and apologized, crawled back into my bed and that was the end of it.

He talked to me more after that, if he was mad (which he sounded when he told me I was attacking him) he wasn't anymore. That confused me even more. But I never punch him, I just try to pin him then I let go. He never actually told me to stop either, instead he would just ask me if I was done. I realize now that when I was first pinning him he was saying Potassium, and while I didn't remember it at the time it was our “safe word” we made the day we were choking each other.

I've interpreted that final episode as one of two things; either that is definite proof that he isn't gay or that he was enjoying it until I started pinning and becoming more aggressive. But I have a hindering feeling that it's the former of the two. Him becoming defensive twice like that was interesting, as well. I'm afraid that he might have been trying to figure out what my deal was too, but I was too cautious and now he thinks I'm straight and he's trying to talk his way out of everything.

So now I'm even MORE confused. Thanks for your responses, any help I can get would be great.

[DarkNick]

I think that he has some complexes that were either caused by you, or from someone else and he's trying to break away from them by getting them on you.
In any way he looks confused as well, like he has a homo romantic self and at the same time an aggressive, bottled up straight self (or not)
In any way he's not clear in any way!
:S

(It's not a really helpful response as you can see but that's all I can do.. :( I'll check it again tomorrow to see if I can add something! :) )

[ShredtheGnar]

So he just sent me a text message of a cumming penis in characters. I responded with a flaccid one. Good sign?

[ShredtheGnar]

@Nick
Like I said he was molested by one of his previous best friends, again by one of our good friends. What you're saying makes a lot of sense.

I agree with your second statement too, that's what throws me off and what tends to cause him to sabotage all his relationships with girls. He friendzones himself everytime, the only time he gets a girl to see him in a romantic manner is when her friend introduces them. He still talks about girls though, and I believe he is attracted to them too. If anything he's probably bi.

The funny thing is him hurting me last night was totally unexpected. But we've been talking all day over the phone, and it might all be in my head but he seems a little happier. Maybe he got something off his chest?

Like I said, both of us have some problems. In truth, if we do have a relationship I might ask him how he feels about counseling down the road. Not for us, but to get closure on a few things from our pasts and I would much rather heal with someone else and not be alone.

Your response is helpful actually. The psychoanalysis sheds light on some things I haven't put much thought into.

[Djentleman]

I think Nick has it pretty much in a nutshell man. He's got those insecurities about his past which he might be unconsciously or maybe purposely sharing with you.
He is an awfully confusing and unreadable character though, I'll give you that. There were spots when reading that post when I thought you should just leave him be and let go, but now looking at the bigger picture with his past and the possible pent up feelings, hanging on might be cool as well, at least until The Retreat.

The "flamboyant at school" episode seemed slightly telling in the sense that he's obviously hiding something from those he's trying to keep an image with.

Having one of his friends accompany you two to The Retreat is also a minor setback, because anything that could've been confessed in confidentiality between you two is now most likely not going to happen like you suggested. He might have withdrawn from doing so last minute though, because like you, he's unsure of the current situation.

Remember when someone gets sexually abused, getting intimate is hard to do for a long time and usually requires help, so he's most probably suffering from that when he finds someone he likes. That could go for both you or the girls. I think he might be bi but is unaware of sexuality's middle ground and probably thinks there can only be gay or straight, so is therefore afraid to come to terms with the former. Then again we might be completely wrong and he could be completely straight and like you said, probably weirding him out a bit with the odd happenings.

[ShredtheGnar]

That was how I interpreted the school episode too. He is even more unreadable when you try to describe how he portrays his self image. He say he doesn't give a fuck about what people think of him, and sometimes wears non matching clothes. But then he also has a bunch of fashionable hats, watches, and sunglasses he wears.

What throws me off more is who is coming to the retreat, one of our smart friends. Initially he invited both of them, but one didn't want to come. The other is currently waitlisted but he is most likely coming. The interesting thing is that he told me a couple times that he thinks the guy is gay, primarily because he just had the lead in the school play. He seemed a little happier the other guy wasn't coming, although they are good friends.

And I understand the sexual abuse rundown, one of my parents being a victim of it too. That's another part of my reasoning for why we would be good for each other. I want to work with him and help, and with my background and growing up with a parent still coming to terms with it 45+ years later I think I can help him.

Coincidentally, my other parent is what is referred to in family dynamics as a "savior" or someone who tries to solve their spouses problems. I don't want to be that character in the relationship, however. I have enough problems of my own- I want to work WITH him. But this is assuming said emotions exist for him.

I'm holding out to see what happens, and I'm sort of confused that he just sent me the text I mentioned above before telling me him and a female friend of his found me a prom date. If I'm on the same level of confusion in the summer, I might come out of the closet to him. Whether he tells people or not at that point I really wouldn't care.

If there is a possibility of a relationship or something more, I don't mind waiting for him. He has some self healing and soul searching to do, and I just want to be supportive of him.

[Djentleman]

Grim to know about your parents man, but it's true, you don't want him to completely rely on you to be his sound board all the time, it has to be a mutual thing.

That text message is really weird, I don't know what it means. It could be him giving you a hint about his knowledge of your sexuality and is taking a dig or him hinting at something else ;D. It could also coincidentally be harmless. It's not really giving you an actual newer and I'm sorry to be pointing out the obvious, but it really is something which could be read in so many ways.

Him inviting a friend who he suspects is gay could be comforting in the sense that he won't judge and could be helpful when the time of the confession happens and that's probably why he wanted him to come.

I'm glad you set an approximate time period you'll give this station to unfold. You can't let it go on forever, it's not healthy for your mind to be constantly second guessing. You've picked a good time as well. I'm guessing that's when your year of school is over? Whichever way it pans out, closure will be far greater than chasing mixed signals.

[ShredtheGnar]

Djentleman, yeah I'll be on vacation but if he decides to tell people I still have to go through senior year with the whole school knowing I'm bi/gay. Granted I'm in a fairly liberal town and I wouldn't be physically harmed at school, but there would still be a great deal of verbal abuse.

Boroboii, can you elaborate a little more?

But, I just had a bit of an idea. I think I'll start telling him I have a secret but not tell him and let it bother him and refer to it a little and see what happens. I don't want to be a douchebag and rub it in his face, but in the lunch line tomorrow I can say something like, "I have something to tell you." and when he asks what I won't respond or say I'm not telling him yet.

It might be better to wait until we're alone to try this though, since I doubt we would accomplish much in public with all of our friends there. But idk.

Then at the retreat or something I'll bring it up again, and see what happens. Any insight on this?

[DarkNick]

Hmmm...
That's actually a nice idea...It'll make him think and if it starts to get out of control you can just say something ''silly''

The only ''flaw'' that I can find is that he may bottle up his anxiety about your secret and it may end in an explosion of anger

[Djentleman]

Yeah he could take it personally, like he suspects the secret to be about you knowing what he's hiding. It's something to sort of mix things up a bit and get him thinking until The Retreat. But like you said, try not to make it threatening.

[ShredtheGnar]

I didn't have a chance to talk to him alone long enough to drop the hint today, we were sitting with our friends at lunch and I was nervous that one of them would start calling me an a**hole for doing that (he doesn't know what's going on). While we were sitting at the table though, he told me that he was getting flasks for the retreat and he was going to give me one. I asked why, and he winked at me.

Roughly ten seconds later, he said that it was really because my debit card was charged four bucks for shipping when he bought them online. I told him a few weeks ago that he is the one person I would trust with my card, and when he did ask to borrow it on Saturday he told me it was because his card expired and that he was using a giftcard. He didn't know that it would charge me. I told him I was cool with it.

I don't regret giving him my card number; if we do end up having a relationship I would give it to him without even asking why to be honest, my brother in law and my sister did that (recently divorced) and I really admired the level of trust they had sharing bank accounts and the such. And I would give him my full trust from the get go since we've already grown this close.

I want to save that topic for later, though. I'm curious as to how quickly we should jump into the relationship if we have one. We know each other extremely well already, but how much of that would transfer to us as a couple instead of friends?

Assuming he's into me, of course. ;)

After school, I went to work only to find out that my manager had given me the entire week off (I asked for it off because of the retreat this weekend, I forgot I asked my buddy to cover my Monday shift too). And since I didn't have Driver's Ed until 7 I chose to take advantage of my limited freedom (still grounded for the party incident, but my parents still thought I was working).

I called him and he told me him, Sexual Deviant friend, and a couple other friends of ours were all meeting up to go longboarding in the nice weather. He invited me along, and on my way out of work I grabbed him an iced coffee and an iced tea for myself. That's not really an important piece of information, I just like to say that I've been treating him well and surprised him with that.

A couple weeks ago, I paid for his mocha when we went to get breakfast before school. A few days later we went to get coffee again in the morning and this time he paid for me. Since then we've paid for each others meals a couple times. He's pretty stingy with money and isn't the type to do that for people, and we both like to sit and have coffee together when we have a minute to relax. I feel that we're sort of like a couple when we do. My biggest fear is that it's all in my head, though.

So right now, I'm starting to become more optimistic again. Our friend that was coming with us on the retreat is definitely not going now, and I couldn't figure out if He was happier of upset because of this. He said it more matter of factly, when I said that sucked, he joked that I should give up my spot for him.

[Djentleman]

Awesome man, I really hope things pan out the way you're hoping for. You seem very caring and selfless, someone I'd like to be with.

Don't worry about what's in your head or not until The Retreat is done. That's the confirmation, the hopeful closure to this episode in your life.

It's cool that your friend isn't coming anymore either. Is that because of any particular reason or just lack of places? It's give you the confidential privacy that you two need to see things through. It's your chance, so take it.

[Loverocksyah]

... im new here but i read all ur post...i know 70 thats a lot but ur story is truly intriguing

wat i find really ironic is that i have a retreat thingy this weekend too. and its a place where people can be totally comfortable...and my crush is going i just hope to be his friend again i kinda messed it up. but i hope it works out and imma keep readin lol

[ShredtheGnar]

Grim to know about your parents man, but it's true, you don't want him to completely rely on you to be his sound board all the time, it has to be a mutual thing.

That latter part of the sentence isn't exactly the problem, I'm the one that complains to him about sh*t. However, it is apparent there are somethings that he has bottled up. I don't want him to have to be alone with them, sharing what's bugging us and talking about it with each other only makes us stronger. He told me about his car accident, and when we drove by the scene of the crash weeks later he reminded me he could have died there (I have a feeling he was gauging my reaction to figure me out).

While he and everyone else who was in the car understands the accident isn't my fault, I still feel somewhat accountable even though I was home at the time. I found out that they were pulling out of a driveway onto a highway, and the passenger was supposed to navigate. He was going to tell the driver not to go when his phone rang; I was calling back my friend after he told me to call this person because his phone died.

Instead the driver drove forward onto the road and the car got T-boned. When I was on the phone I remember he answered and I heard a lot of static, got confused and hung up. I called back once after a while later but there was no answer.

Backtracking to the quote, he is able to get past things pretty quickly. He's pretty forgivable and it's hard to piss him off. I'm not exactly agreeing with me being his soundboard it's more so the opposite. But I don't want to be obnoxious so I've slowly been teaching myself to get over my own problems. However, he has some ghosts in his closet and his reaction on Friday night (assuming he is attracted to me, of course) says that he needs to talk to someone about something.

And I'm going to be there to listen and comfort him, just as he does for me. I really do appreciate him for what he has done for me. And out of respect for him, maybe I shouldn't be hung up over trying to figure him out. And to be honest, I'm not. I'm really just trying to get with it, whatever "it" is. But it's a good thing I'm aware of the fact there's something lingering, so I'm prepared. But I should let him come to me when he's ready, like his possible feelings for me.

Me being around him has helped me get over some of my problems. He makes me want to be a better person, and I have become one as a result of him being in my life. And if there's one thing I am sure about love, is that it makes you want to do just this.

[Djentleman]

Why the heck am I giving you advice? You sound like you should be giving me advice haha. You're an amazing person and I'm happy you've got your ideals in perfectly achievable grasp. If he could only see what you feel, I'm sure he'd be happy to stay with you.

[ShredtheGnar]

Awesome man, I really hope things pan out the way you're hoping for. You seem very caring and selfless, someone I'd like to be with.

Don't worry about what's in your head or not until The Retreat is done. That's the confirmation, the hopeful closure to this episode in your life.

It's cool that your friend isn't coming anymore either. Is that because of any particular reason or just lack of places? It's give you the confidential privacy that you two need to see things through. It's your chance, so take it.

I can't say I'll 100% believe he's straight after the retreat is nothing happens, but I will definitely back off and see what happens. Not to say I won't stop talking to him or anything; he's my best friend after all. But I'll definitely doubt myself too much to want to risk anything.

I have a feeling the stories not quite over, yet.

... im new here but i read all ur post...i know 70 thats a lot but ur story is truly intriguing

wat i find really ironic is that i have a retreat thingy this weekend too. and its a place where people can be totally comfortable...and my crush is going i just hope to be his friend again i kinda messed it up. but i hope it works out and imma keep readin lol

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to read the whole thread, I've found myself pretty intrigued myself in some of the similar stories I've found online. There's a lot on Yahoo Answers, but none of them are quite the same, or like mine (or yours for the matter). Some of the posters had happy endings, others not.

It's funny that you too have a retreat this weekend, also. Seeing your location, mines not quite in your neck of the woods but it would have been insane if we were both going to be at the same place. I would have asked you for a first hand assessment, I could have tried to do the same for you. :P

I hope you sort everything out with your situation. A couple weeks ago I thought I screwed it up myself, it turned out to be next to nothing. Just remember not to go against your gut instinct. If you hear yourself say no right after you say it, don't do it! Do what really feels right, and listen to your intuition!

Hope to hear from you again, it's good to know that we're not alone and that somebody else is going through something similar. We aren't alone.

Happy reading!

[ShredtheGnar]

Why the heck am I giving you advice? You sound like you should be giving me advice haha. You're an amazing person and I'm happy you've got your ideals in perfectly achievable grasp. If he could only see what you feel, I'm sure he'd be happy to stay with you.

Haha, that's very flattering thank you :lol:. Don't stop with the advice though, dude. Some of the stuff you have said is extremely important and beneficial. And a third person perspective of our relationship is exactly what we need to know what's going on.

I'm still confused as to why I still don't have an answer; I started writing here in January. These thing's take time, but he is smart and by now should have picked up as to whats going on. But while our intellect is very similar in many ways, in others it is completely different. I have mentioned that I think he knows. Is he just not going to acknowledge my sexuality, and just wait for me to tell him? I know one of us needs to say something first, but I feel that it's unfair that it has to be me when I don't even know for sure if it will end well. If he gave me some undeniable sign that he's into me, (or at this point, if he wouldn't tell anyone) I would tell him.

I really hope he can/does/will feel what I feel. I've put some thought into it, though. If he does have feelings for me, I don't know if they will be as strong as mine are towards him. At least in the beginning.

Edit: Maybe I could show him this thread once we start dating and he would understand....
....?

[Djentleman]

The thing is man, this situation you're in is a blind road. You can't predict or understand what the other is thinking or feeling unless you make the love and ask. But like anyone, outright asking is too risky and might potentially destroy what you've built up.

I think at this moment, it's a stalemate. He's probably waiting for your explanation, just you like you are. At the end of the day someone has got to make the move and if you feel your gut telling you that you have to do it, then go ahead. Patience is key at this point because it seems anything could come about at any time. He might not necessarily be waiting to tell you something, but maybe waiting to hear something he suspects.

Remember if you do get together and he seems distant or not as in to you, that's just a sign that he's not as confident at the situation as you are. He's going to be very self aware and He'll most definitely want to keep his image up to the outside world for a bit longer, but that wont mean any less in his feelings for you. That's something to worry about later though man.

Just keep up the wait and try not to show your impatience. If you want to drop the subtleties and make him aware that it is safe to tell/ask you what's on your mind then go for it.

This thread being seen by him is a bit 50/50, but I'd advise against it. He could feel very different things about it.

[WonderTastic]

I was looking for a story like this!
(I've been through a similar story with a friend of mine but I exploded and told him how I felt about him too early :P)
I think that he's playing around with his and your sexuality. He probably doesn't know if he is bi, or gay or straight either 'cause he doesn't want to admit it or 'cause he just accepts the signals but ignores the labels (sounds a bit stupid, doesn't it? :P). I think that he wants the sort of a platonic love (like the friendship you got), the one truly partner that he would share with him anything,but in most of the cases not his bed (if you got what I mean :P),though, I think that in your case you might have some chances...
At least that's what happened to me and I'm talking by having personal experience (my story actually is more or less the same with yours)

Be patient for a while,read the signs, keep the tactic that you have follow until now and be ready for anything!
If you want to ask me anything about it, feel free to!
I know that it may not be a clear answer to your issue, but it's the clearest that I can give (and I REALLY want to help you! :) ).
im going through it too lol he does things and i cant ignore them my friend told him i said i loved him and he said aww w yall got better signals than i did caus im getting scrapes lol i feel in love with a str8 boy and it sucks

[DarkNick]

im going through it too lol he does things and i cant ignore them my friend told him i said i loved him and he said aww w yall got better signals than i did caus im getting scrapes lol i feel in love with a str8 boy and it sucks

That sucks really bad...
Good luck, I guess... (I believe that my old friend of mine was-is bi though :P. From what I've been hearing so far-I haven't seen him since August-even his GF is jealous sometimes 'cause of his new ''romantic'' friendship :P so it was a different situation than yours,perhaps :) )

Anyway back on the main topic!!! :P

[ShredtheGnar]

The thing is man, this situation you're in is a blind road. You can't predict or understand what the other is thinking or feeling unless you make the love and ask. But like anyone, outright asking is too risky and might potentially destroy what you've built up.

I think at this moment, it's a stalemate. He's probably waiting for your explanation, just you like you are. At the end of the day someone has got to make the move and if you feel your gut telling you that you have to do it, then go ahead. Patience is key at this point because it seems anything could come about at any time. He might not necessarily be waiting to tell you something, but maybe waiting to hear something he suspects.

Remember if you do get together and he seems distant or not as in to you, that's just a sign that he's not as confident at the situation as you are. He's going to be very self aware and He'll most definitely want to keep his image up to the outside world for a bit longer, but that wont mean any less in his feelings for you. That's something to worry about later though man.

Just keep up the wait and try not to show your impatience. If you want to drop the subtleties and make him aware that it is safe to tell/ask you what's on your mind then go for it.

This thread being seen by him is a bit 50/50, but I'd advise against it. He could feel very different things about it.

I also think we're in a stalemate, as you said. But I don't know if it's necessarily between which one of us comes out of the closet first, it might be which one of us admit's that I'm into him first. If he is straight, he is probably too afraid to admit that I am, in regard to his self image, also as you said.

But if we do go somewhere, I want to sit down with him and get on the same page about where we stand on public displays of affection, communication, whether or not we both stay closeted for the most part until we're out of high school, etc. I don't really care if people know I'm gay if we're together, except my father. And if everyone at school knows about us, then my younger sister would too. First thing she would do is tell mommy and daddy her big brothers gay with his friend.

I think my dad would eventually come around, but I really don't want to deal with his reaction while I'm in high school. I'm not emotionally mature enough for what he would say and do, yet. I think he would want to stay in the closet until we graduate, anyways. We both want to go to the same colleges, so thinking longterm isn't very difficult for me.

I feel sketchy about showing him this thread, too. I think it would something I might show him down the road, if we get together. Like on our first anniversary or something like that. The relationship problems/questions aside, this is still a very good account of our adventures these past few months.

im going through it too lol he does things and i cant ignore them my friend told him i said i loved him and he said aww w yall got better signals than i did caus im getting scrapes lol i feel in love with a str8 boy and it sucks

Sorry to hear that, it does suck but there are other guys out there. I have that in the back of my mind, and if this doesn't work out I'm still going to be crushed but eventually I'll be able to move forward (but I hope I don't have to). We all have the inner strength to do so, and you'll find it too. :)

That sucks really bad...
Good luck, I guess... (I believe that my old friend of mine was-is bi though :P. From what I've been hearing so far-I haven't seen him since August-even his GF is jealous sometimes 'cause of his new ''romantic'' friendship :P so it was a different situation than yours,perhaps :) )

Anyway back on the main topic!!! :P

So his girlfriend know's he's hooking up with guys and is okay with it? Lucky bastard...

At lunch today, our friend who was going on the retreat and I were sitting in the cafeteria after chilling outside and enjoying the nice weather. He and another friend of ours walked over and sat down, and he whispered something in our smart friend's ear. I didn't pick up a word of it, but our smart friend instantly tried to get me to switch places with him for the retreat. He offered me an 8th of pot and 50 bucks (that's over $100) to trade with me for the weekend.

He said that I could stay with his step brother for the weekend and drive around with him when he went to make deals and stuff, and while I will admit it was a tempting offer I said no. My Friend chimed in saying that I might want to do it, him saying that hurt me and I thought he was trying to replace me with our friend. But, I wanted him to be happy so I asked if he thought I should do it. He said it was a really good offer.

Afterwards, our smart friend went to class and our other friend had gym so we accompanied him to class. He went and walked with him while I sat on the bleachers next to the track finishing my History homework. When we were walking to the track, I let them go ahead of me and talked to an acquaintance of ours who was sitting with us at lunch. We talked about a mutual friend of ours who has repeatedly stolen from me, at this point upwards of 250 bucks.

I said that my Friend still attempts to scam me occasionally, and it bothered me that he did so (he really hasn't for a while, though). Our mutual friend told me about a conversation he had with Him a while back, He said that if everyone in the world was more like me that the world would be a better place. I asked him to elaborate, he explained that I am too trusting of people and instantly offer to help them. This generally results in me getting into trouble, being caught up in something that's none of my business.

I'm not looking for any reason to assume my friend is attracted to me, because as far as those go this is nothing. But what he said about me definitely brightened my day.

After I was out on the bleachers doing homework, Him and our friend walked over to talk to me when the coach came out and told the class to go inside. Him and I were the only people who weren't in the class, so we both chose to sit outside for the remaining fifteen minutes of the period. He sat down with my backpack between us (I was on the end, whether or not he wanted to sit closer I don't know) and we worked on our homework.

I asked him if he really wanted me to switch with our friend this weekend, he laughed and said no way. I felt a weight lift off my shoulders, and we talked a little more about this weekend. I asked him again if he wanted to get a bottle to fill the flasks with, he asked me why I was so caught up in getting drunk this weekend. I said that I didn't really care about getting drunk, but made a point that if we were going to get something that we needed to think ahead. He said he had some melon liquor to kill.

When the bell rang, we walked to class together. At the end of History, I walked over to his desk to talk to him before the bell rang, as I usually do. We were on our phones, not really talking to each other. I realized that if I was going to try my experiment today, that this would be my last chance to talk to him privately. I cleared my throat and called his attention, he looked up at me and I stuttered before saying nevermind.

He asked what was I going to say, I said it wasn't important. He asked again, I said it was stupid. He told me that I do this to him everyday; that's a drastic over exaggeration. But occasionally I do something similar, generally because of my short term memory loss from smoking so much pot or I'm listening to my gut instinct and choosing to keep my mouth shut. He sounded a little upset that I wouldn't tell him, and said that if it wasn't important that I would just tell him. I stuttered again and thought about my response, luckily I was saved by the bell.

So the moral of that story is that I'm a spineless bitch. :(

After school I had Drivers Ed. When I finished I called my dad and asked if I could drive around for a while. While I waited for him, I called my friend to see what he was up to. He was alone, waiting for a friend of ours to pick him up. We talked on the phone for a few minutes, he said that his phone was about to die but if I wanted to hang out with them to try and give him a call soon before I wouldn't be able to get a hold of him.

I told him I would give him a call tonight, and a little while ago I texted him a penis (like he did the other night). His phone's still dead, so that will be a nice surprise for him when he gets home. :lol:

Today wasn't really accomplishing, but tomorrow we have synagogue so I'll probably hang out with him at some point beforehand. Thanks again, and if you're reading this please feel free to respond!

[Loverocksyah]

lol i could just picture u stuttering

and the retreat actually isnt in LA its in wisconsin...i fly to green bay wisconsin thursday then take a bus to the campsite...i only go because ive been going since i lived there beforre i moved over here

[Djentleman]

I'm gutted for you not being able to tell him, but I'm glad you didn't afterward because it would've sounded too important with the second guessing you were doing.

That's also really cool what he said about you and that's a characteristic I have as well which is why I understand what he means.

Keep it up man :)

[WonderTastic]

I love how you reply to everyone replies lol recently me and him been playing mw3 online together he is sogood and.i suck like I dont know what I like anout him lol people say he ugly but to me he is gold like if I got ugly I wouldnt notice cause his heart is what I love I wish just him knowing I love him no matter would be enough but it isnt I have to go.back to the old triston and lure him in but if I do whaat if he just wanna do m..... I want him to love me back... My heart and brain are fighting and im losing the war

[WonderTastic]

he asked for a hug the other day and it was like a shoulder hugcause I had too much I was carring lol then the next day was my bday and he picked me up my legs and hugged me lol but he got a girl now so yea

In the perfect world id be with hibut it anit perfect so yea and im so gonna blog about this make sure you read we can help.each other lol


This anit the first time in my life this happend like I dont know now but I got other guys to do the things he is doing and they are straight so like am I a big flirt our do they see me as a experiment cause I comeoff as bi or gay but I myself is pan


Would you be happy if he just.wanted a sexual relationship and not a emotional cause I feel I might notbe able to.say no to him cause my feeling for him are so strong yea know lol that was long for a quick reply

[WonderTastic]

He makes me an emotional whirlwind like I am falling like a roock I cry I laugh... Then i get mad I scream I wanna kick.his balls in but then I want to.kiss him and hold him and yes f¤¤k him and grind on him but most of all love him and he love me just for him to look in my eyes and say triston I love you with every bite of heart and mean it and I hug him and cry tears of joy.while he holds me..... I love me but for someone else to its the most amazing feeling.... Lol I write songs and I wrote 7 bout him lol they pretty

[WonderTastic]

Sorry my post are broken I just keep getting hit with thoughts and emotions. I love this thread andnd I want you to work cause id give anything for mines to work and I know you feel the same

[ShredtheGnar]

Well holy shit I think I just got my answer. He just spent the last two hours flirting with me at synagogue. We did smoke beforehand on the way to get dinner, but at this point we were both sober. While we were waiting for class to start, he started eating a banana and was staring into my eyes while deep throating it before taking a bite.

The only other thing that is going on at this point is he's trying to break me and make me come out. But that seems like a really paranoid thing to say, would someone seriously be malicious enough to try this?

I instantly walked out of the room, sort of having a mini freak out. When I went back to look for him he was sitting at a table filling out paperwork. I sat with him and helped him apply for a summer job, and a couple times were staring into each other's eyes. We went to our first class and every time the person sitting between us got up to do something, he stared into my eyes. I could definitely see something there, and he started giving me devious smirks.

We went to our second class, I sat down on a two person bench in the library. He walked in, I motioned for him to sit. Again, he gave me the smirk. We sat next to each other and started listening to the lecture, he started nudging me with his leg when no one was looking. I looked at him to see what was going on, he looked back and gave me the same smirk. We kept doing this for the rest of class when no one was watching us, I could him breathing harder and we stopped when the teacher started having a conversation.

When the class was over, we went to have a meeting for planning an event with some other people at the hebrew school. He sat down next to a hot senior girl, he constantly flirts with her although he's definitely friend zoned. He was also texting our friend a joke about both of them dating a girl he's friends with. He offered to take her out on dates and the other guy could screw her. I was resting my feet on the table leg, he went to do the same. I started nudging me with my toes a little and he looked at me, I could read his expression completely: not now.

This time was much more public than before, so I'm 95% sure now that he is attracted to me but doesn't want to come out. And like I said, I'm totally fine with that for the meantime since I would prefer to finish high school while still on speaking terms with my father.

I'm more hopeful that something will happen at the retreat, this weekend. I could tell he was trying to control himself as was I. And I'm not going to push anything sexual, I just want to be close to him and let him do what he wants when he's ready.[/quote]

[ShredtheGnar]

lol i could just picture u stuttering

and the retreat actually isnt in LA its in wisconsin...i fly to green bay wisconsin thursday then take a bus to the campsite...i only go because ive been going since i lived there beforre i moved over here

Ah...Ah....Ah........I can see how. :D

That's cool about your retreat. Wisconsin is in my timezone (I think) but I still don't think we have the same thing. :(

I'm gutted for you not being able to tell him, but I'm glad you didn't afterward because it would've sounded too important with the second guessing you were doing.

That's also really cool what he said about you and that's a characteristic I have as well which is why I understand what he means.

Keep it up man :)

Yeah, not one of my best moments. I accidentally did the same thing tonight and he started joking about it again. Regardless, I think he picked up what I was trying to do. He made a point about it right after he gave me all of those signals, but I explained that time was because of short term memory loss. :P

Sorry my post are broken I just keep getting hit with thoughts and emotions. I love this thread andnd I want you to work cause id give anything for mines to work and I know you feel the same

I know how you feel, I spent about four hours writing my initial post. It takes time for things to come back to you and for you word them specifically as to be more clear about what you're writing. I do feel the same, I really wish the best of luck to you guys. And now I think something's happening between us, maybe you and your friend have a chance too!

Just remember to watch how you're acting and keep yourself from distorting your thinking with your feelings.

[Djentleman]

Wow, that's a stark change in his ways. It seems like he just wants to get it out now. But man, I'm not trying to be depressing or pessimistic; just remember that those signals could mean he knows what you are interested in and is basically tell you through these gestures. I'm not saying they definitely mean that, but there's a good chance they do.

I had a homophobic friend that did those things to me regularly as well and I know he suspected me of being gay before. I learnt later that that was his way of gaining confirmation from my response. I'm not saying cut him off. Just be weary. And believe me, people can be that cold to play these games with you if they want answers.

By the way, I just wanted to know what the answer to the other poster's question was.

If all he wants is a sexual thing with no strings attached, would be go along with it?

[ShredtheGnar]

Wow, that's a stark change in his ways. It seems like he just wants to get it out now. But man, I'm not trying to be depressing or pessimistic; just remember that those signals could mean he knows what you are interested in and is basically tell you through these gestures. I'm not saying they definitely mean that, but there's a good chance they do.

I had a homophobic friend that did those things to me regularly as well and I know he suspected me of being gay before. I learnt later that that was his way of gaining confirmation from my response. I'm not saying cut him off. Just be weary. And believe me, people can be that cold to play these games with you if they want answers.

By the way, I just wanted to know what the answer to the other poster's question was.

If all he wants is a sexual thing with no strings attached, would be go along with it?

I thought about that too, and I've been contemplating if he would actually do this just to get a confirmation. I said I'm 95% sure this is for real, the other 5% is this suspicion.

It might be a good idea to lower that, simply because my emotions are completely taking over right now. I'm still confident, but to be safe I'll take off 15%. 80% is still a great probability, and I'm just going to see what happens at the retreat and will jump on it should the opportunity present itself.

I mean, I'm pretty sure he had a boner when he was nudging me.

As for the question, I'm not sure what I would do. Lust itself would probably have me say yes, but down the road I might ask him if he would want to take it a step further.

[Loverocksyah]

omg! thats awesome!...but dont get too excited thats exactly wat my friend did and i went along with it he ended up be straight...i stiilll doubt it though.

um with the retreat my friend is going to be there...i just hope he rooms with me ;) good luck :D

[WonderTastic]

I say be cautious with this I think guys tried to do this to me. They called me gay then flirt with me later... This confused the mess out of me.. I never told any of them I was gay or bi but it would explain why they would mess with me. How homophobic is.your friend cause guys can be creul mofo's. If you go into soon preare your self for worst cause if he is out to break hearts I dont.want it to phase you. If he does flip on you please dont cry. You cant let hom know he won or even got to you. Be like I got my fun out of it and im done. That be the turnimg point and youll officaly be out but at least on your own terms lol. I am hoping for the best but we dont like in a perfect worl and people are messed up so yea.Another problem is being used for sex butwe arent even there yet so thats later. The ball is in your court ask him first. He might not be able to accept his sexuality. He might turn on you because he him self is scared of what society.might think but you aren't society you are his best friend and he trust you so you need to get him alone and when he is comfortable ask him hint questions who you have a crush on and flirt and stuff you got to prie at him cause if he trruly like you and ready to be with you he will answer honestly. If he says no one he likes you if he go too into detail about this girl then he trying to be str... Use how you feel and reply correspondedly lol

[ShredtheGnar]

I say be cautious with this I think guys tried to do this to me. They calles me gay then flirt with me late... This confused the mess out of me.. I never told any of them I was gay or bi but it would explain why they wpuld mess with me. How homophobic is.your friend cause guys can be creul mofo's. If you go into soon preare your self for worst cause if he is out to break hearts I dont.want it to phase you. If he does flip on you please dont cry. You cant let hom know he won or even got to you. Be like I got my fun out of it and im done. That be the turnimg point and youll officaly be out but at least on your own terms lol. I am hoping for the best but we dont like in a perfect worl and people are messed up so yea.Another problem is being used for sex butwe arent even there yet so thats later. The ball is in your court ask him first. He might not be able to accept his sexuality. He might turn on you because he him self is scared of what society.might think but you aren't society you are his best friend and he trust you so you need to get him alone and when he is comfortable ask him hint questions who you have a crush on and flirt and stuff you got to prie at him cause if he trruly like you and ready to be with you he will answer honestly. If he says no one he likes you if he go too into detail about this girl then he trying to be str... Use how you feel and reply correspondedly lol

I did what you said and had a long thought, I think I know what I'm going to do tomorrow afternoon.

After lunch when we have our free period together I'm going to ask him if he wants to go with me and kill my last two cigarettes. When we get to our smoke spot and spark up, I'll have a conversation with him.

I'm going to ask him if I've ever told him he's my best friend. I'm thinking really hard right now, and I'm pretty sure I've never said that to him.

I'll ask him if he still wants to quit cigarettes, he was talking about it for a while as was I. Neither of us did anything about it, but we could support each other. Most of the time we smoke them is when we're with each other, anyways. We were talking about quitting together, too. I'm just going to see if he was serious about it. If he agrees, I'll continue.

I'll tell him, "You're a person whom I don't want to have a falling out with, or ruin the relationship. I'll still want to be able to talk to college or something, you know?"

I feel that if he really is straight and trying to out me, and I'm about to ruin our friendship, that he needs to stop what he's doing. He might tell me that he think's I'm fucking up our friendship. Then I'll know this is all in my head.

If not, and he goes with it I'm doing nothing wrong. He might say something along the lines of, "Yeah I feel the same way, dude." and ask me if I still want to go to a couple schools we're mutually interested in. If this conversation goes well, it means we're good. Not saying there's been anything wrong with our friendship, though. We've actually been growing extremely close these last few weeks.

That won't answer whether or not he wants a relationship or to be friends with benefits. But it seems to be a surefire way of knowing he too has feelings for me, and he doesn't even have to admit anything to me. Much more comfortable for him, and myself. We would both know what we're talking about.

But I need feedback on this, I'm sort of unsure about it. Thanks in advance for your responses.

[WonderTastic]

I found out my problem with my guy we dont spend enough time together so how can we build any thing in a hour a week of seeing each other.


Good plan something you always do with each other. Try not to pour your heart out but dont be without feeling you got to find a perfect medieum and then depending on how on going give in to it or slowly pull out. But I think this should not be the I love bomb it should be the I like guys bomb let him that you are intrested in guys. This should be done playfuly like almost a joke. Let him know though that you are in to guys. Tell him to keep it betwwen us. Depending on how he reacts you should keep going. If he is freaking out be like dont worry your not at my standard anyway but in a playful matter try and make it like a competiton on if he can get you rt not. If he still isnt reacting or freaking out be like come on dude we'vee been friends for forever are we really gonna stop talking because.i like ps3 and you like xbox. If he didnt want be friends still then you got your answer but if he does you have to wait longer. If you guys stay friends then things might change dont get discouraged. You can repair out with little problems especially if he had a thing for you.


Now it is up to you which one you chosse first but try your best to keep a friendship

[CrossingtheCourtyard]

I did what you said and had a long thought, I think I know what I'm going to do tomorrow afternoon.

After lunch when we have our free period together I'm going to ask him if he wants to go with me and kill my last two cigarettes. When we get to our smoke spot and spark up, I'll have a conversation with him.

I'm going to ask him if I've ever told him he's my best friend. I'm thinking really hard right now, and I'm pretty sure I've never said that to him.

I'll ask him if he still wants to quit cigarettes, he was talking about it for a while as was I. Neither of us did anything about it, but we could support each other. Most of the time we smoke them is when we're with each other, anyways. We were talking about quitting together, too. I'm just going to see if he was serious about it. If he agrees, I'll continue.

I'll tell him, "You're a person whom I don't want to have a falling out with, or ruin the relationship. I'll still want to be able to talk to college or something, you know?"

I feel that if he really is straight and trying to out me, and I'm about to ruin our friendship, that he needs to stop what he's doing. He might tell me that he think's I'm fucking up our friendship. Then I'll know this is all in my head.

If not, and he goes with it I'm doing nothing wrong. He might say something along the lines of, "Yeah I feel the same way, dude." and ask me if I still want to go to a couple schools we're mutually interested in. If this conversation goes well, it means we're good. Not saying there's been anything wrong with our friendship, though. We've actually been growing extremely close these last few weeks.

That won't answer whether or not he wants a relationship or to be friends with benefits. But it seems to be a surefire way of knowing he too has feelings for me, and he doesn't even have to admit anything to me. Much more comfortable for him, and myself. We would both know what we're talking about.

But I need feedback on this, I'm sort of unsure about it. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Firstly I'd like to say I've been reading this thread since it began--God, not to make you feel like your life is a television show but its fascinating--and I apologize for not commenting before, I just never thought I had anything that would really be helpful to say.

Now, onto the reason I'm commenting now: Be very careful how you do this. Depending on what you say, he might think that you're trying to put him in a 'friend zone' because you don't want to compromise your friendship--and with the recent hints and goings on, he may think you're responding poorly to his 'flirting' and intimate behavior.

The words you use, the tone of voice, body language and general feelings you put out are going to be important.

[DejaVu]

Thanks, Dust. I'm typing this post up in Open Office to prevent a repeat of that. Pretty frustrating sh*t. But as for him and I, things are getting even more confusing and he is definitely sure of something. What that is, I'm not sure. And the retreat is not too far away, so I might be getting my answer sooner than I thought. Right now, I think the conclusion is one of two things;

1. He's actually completely straight and all my speculation is false, he may or may not know I'm straight. If he knows, he either is trying to out me or he doesn't care and still wants to be friends. I have been trying to figure this out, by gauging how close we are now compared to a few weeks ago. I started spending a lot of time with him, and he isn't making any effort to get out of hanging out with me.

2. He is bi or gay, and one or both of us really doesn't want to admit it. I think that I might be subconsciously giving wrong signals at times, and that he might be getting angry at me because I haven't made any drastic move. I'm starting to have more doubts that this is the case, though.

Picking up where the thread left off three weeks ago, I spent the Friday before February break over at his house while his Mom was away. I had just picked up some pot from our smart Audi driving friends, and he wanted to break in his new bong. I lost count of how many bowls I packed, but it was somewhere in the vicinity of two grams.

We were hanging out in the living room afterwards, watching Netflix on the couch. At one point he placed his legs onto my lap, I relaxed a little more remembering the advice I've been getting here to be more playful and start massaging his feet. He started getting into it too, rhythmically moving his feet in the motion of my hand. I look over at him to gauge his reaction, his eyes are closed and he looks relaxed.

Seeing he's okay with it, I decide to be a little more daring and I try to turn so I can let him take my feet, too. I move them by his face so he can't ignore them, and he pushes them away without taking them. I tried again and the same thing happened. His eyes were still closed but he looked more frustrated so I stopped. We both lay basically on top of each other for a while, head to foot. He shifted onto his side, and I repositioned myself so we were in more of a cuddling position. I fell asleep for a few minutes, thinking he was too but a minute later his phone rang and he picked up. I could see he was awake the whole time.

After he got off the phone, we both got up and headed to the bedroom for another smoke sesh when his phone rang again. On the phone were a couple kids he's friendly with, driving around looking for heads to chill with. We met up with them and cruised around town before heading back to his condominium complex to hotbox their car in the parking lot. We did just that, but both of us were in the backseat not really enjoying ourselves. He saw that I wanted to leave and started motioning for me to say goodbye, but I didn't understand him immediately.

The whole time we were communicating through eye contact, and he whispered to me that I needed to get out first so the other guys wouldn't invite themselves inside, too. I failed on my first try, blurting out something along the lines of “I have to use the bathroom.” The guys in the front looked at me like I was stupid and he cracked up laughing. I too found it pretty funny, and a minute later I made another move to say goodbye, him and I left and walked back to his place.

Realizing he wanted to be at his place with just me made me a little excited, and when we got back inside we started getting ready for bed. When I walked into his room, I was expecting to sleep in his bed with him but I saw him throwing some blankets onto the floor next to him for me to sleep in. A little disappointed, I got into bed and we laughed a bit more at what happened in the car before going to sleep.

In the morning, him and I woke up had a wake and bake before going back into the living room. I'm not exactly sure what happened, but at one point he started running away and I ran after him and he ended up getting cornered. He started swinging at me, and I swung back and asked him what he was doing. He asked me if I didn't think he knew what I was trying to do. In context, he basically said that I was trying to make him gay. What he actually said was that I was trying to make him into a very flamboyant person at our school. I immediately backed away and went back to sit on the couch.

Edit: "very flamboyant person at our school" is censoring the name of a person at our school.

He came into the living room a minute later and sat down next to me and we were quiet for a minute. Next person to speak was him, asking me how high I was. I said very, an over exaggeration to try and divert any uncomfortable conversation away. A few minutes later we were talking again, and nothing out of the ordinary happened after that.

That confused me even more, and I thought for a while that was him telling me to stop making moves on him. I felt pretty horrible, but then as he didn't express any anger towards me I thought that maybe he was embarrassed or something else. But the speculating tends to make me too daring, so maybe I should take that for how I originally comprehended it.

Fast forward to Wednesday night, a good friend of ours stayed over at my house for the night. He met us at my house in the morning, and we hung out there for the day. Thursday's he usually goes to his Dad's, so him and our friend decided to walk back to their houses together. After they left, Sexual Deviant friend calls me asking if I want to hang out with him and a couple more people.

When I met up with him and a couple more of our friends, I saw that he was there too. He saw Sexual Deviant friend and everyone else on the walk home and met up with them. We started walking to Sexual Deviant's house and my Friend said goodbye to me. I told him that I was coming too, and he gave me a look and asked if I was inviting myself. I said no, that our friend invited me to his house. He sort of ignored me and walked inside, leaving me confused and upset. Was he trying to ditch me?

When we all went inside, I didn't really try to have a conversation with him and instead talked to another friend of ours showing him my weed I had just bought (Blue Dream is so pretty) and he offered to match me on a bowl with some purple stuff he had. I agreed, and all of us proceeded to get high. Amidst this, I was texting one of our smart friends. He asked me if I was interested in going snowboarding the next day, I said definitely.

I asked who we would go with, he suggested I ask my friend. I gave the phone to him so he could read the text for himself, and when he gave it back to me he had typed two penises facing each other, but didn't send it. He looked at me and started giggling, when I saw it I immediately deleted it. A couple minutes later he asked me if I saw his reply, I said no and when he told me to look at it I said I couldn't find it. I asked him if he wanted to go snowboarding, and he didn't give me a response. I asked him if he was still planning on staying at his Dad's, and again he didn't say anything.

An hour or so later we had to leave, so him and I walked towards the street. I said goodbye, figuring his text meant that he knew I was gay and that he knew what I wanted to do that night. But instead he started walking in the direction of my house. A minute later of walking I asked him if he was going home, he looked at me and flatly asked if he could sleepover at my house. I said okay. My heart started racing as I took these signals in a completely different way now, thinking that he was basically saying we were going to do something and that I simply hadn't caught on yet.

When we got to my house and went upstairs, we both sat down on my bed and started surfing the web on my laptop. For some reason he suggested we play Rock, Paper, Scissors for something, what it was I don't remember. Every time we threw our hands, he would very slowly and softly touch my hands; when I had paper and him scissors he looked into my eyes while slowly closing his fingers on my hand. He looked like he was very happy when his fingers eventually closed.

After that was finished I got up to get the remote, and he asked if I wanted to play again. I said sure, and he quickly laughed and said no. It was pretty crushing being convinced something was about to happen only for him to do that, but whatever. Later on I took a chance and threw my arm over him, and he put his arm over mine. I rested my head on his chest and relaxed, he didn't mind. When I tried to get up he started punching me in the back and holding me onto him, so I stayed. The same thing happened a couple more times, I stayed. I was so confused because if I tried to get away from him he hit me, so I feel like he didn't want me to get off him. But when I realized this and started pulling him closer and looked him in the eyes, he hit me more.

All this did was confuse me more, and the thought started forming in my head that maybe he doesn't want to express his feelings towards me out of fear, but he also wanted me on top of him. The worst part of it was that night when we were sleeping in my bed, I kept finding myself curling up to him in my sleep. But every time I did he would start hitting me to get me off. If he's straight, I would feel pretty badly for how strange I must have made that for him.

Fast forward to last weekend, when him and I decided to go to another party. It was insane, until college kids showed up and tried to fight some seniors. My little sister was there with her freshman friends, and when kids started shouting at her for trying to fill her water bottle at the keg I gave her my cup (I had three beers socially at that point, wasn't in the mood to get drunk). Him and I ended up with each other most of the night, while I made an effort not to smother him he would come back towards me. I took that as a positive sign, and it seemed like he was trying to get us alone at a few points.

The cops busted it at 1:30 in the morning, while him and I were in the backyard smoking a cigarette. I heard car doors slam, and saw flashlight beams on the side of the house. I said the cops were here, and our smart friend told me to shut up and that it was fine. But a guy and his girlfriend were walking around the side of the house and when he saw us, warned the cops were coming around the house.

We booked into the woods behind the house, running on a trail until we came out on another street. I was with him, and our smart friend went the other way eventually ending up at our pre-determined meeting spot (everyone told me I was stupid for making a meeting spot, so it was pretty satisfying to be right). Unfortunately, my little sister was at the party too; if I had known she was there I wouldn't have gone. She was driven home in a police car, and she instantly told my parents I was there not sparing details (me smoking and drinking).

My mom called me freaking out, and I knew I was screwed because I told her I was staying at his house for the night. But the stupid part is that was only the second time I had lied to her, the other being the night of the other party I talked about a few weeks back. And I really did learn my lesson that night being chased through the woods by cops, and again when we were trying to make our way back into town. By that time we had met up with a few more people, and some others had people pick them up and got out of there.

But my mom still let me stay out, after I told her him and I were spending the night at a friends house, making it clear they weren't at the party. Somehow she was okay with that, and when I tried to call our friend and see if we could sleepover he didn't pick up. When we were on the phone, she asked me if him and I wanted her to pick us up and that we could stay at my house. He said no, but later he would regret that.


We stopped at an apartment complex to plan an escape route, breaking into an empty laundry room to roll a joint thinking that this would suck a little less if we were high. I rolled one up, and another kid we were with decided to try and steal a yard chair he found in the laundry room. When we got out, we walked onto the road thinking that we would try and cut across the highway without being seen by cops since they wouldn't be searching in that neighborhood.

I was in the process of lighting the joint when a cop car pulled up to the intersection and it's spotlight went on us. It started turning around the corner and we started running the other way back into the apartments to see another cruiser pulling up the other way with it's lights on. We turned again and ran into the woods, I went another way separate from the others. I ran to the top of the hill and hid my pot in a tree in case I got caught and waited by the road. Luckily, everyone with the exception of two of the people we were with made it.

The other two hid under a bush while the police searched the apartments for three hours, walking by them multiple times totally clueless!

We went down the street before cutting into more woods and called around for a ride out of there. Eventually, one of his hood friends picked us up and we slept in the unlocked post office across town. Like I said, I learned my lesson. But unfortunately, my mom seems to think otherwise. She told me I'm no longer allowed to stay at my friend's houses overnight and I'm currently grounded.

But last night she said it was okay for him to stay over. I made her promise me that she wouldn't tell his mom about the party, and after a few hours of arguing she gave in. A few hours after he got to my house, our smart friends called him and asked if he wanted to go to a party. I didn't want to ruin his night making him stay at my house, so I lied to my mom again telling her that his mom was coming to pick him up so he could do a school project in the morning.

She didn't completely buy it, and she made it clear to me today that she trusts me less now. But he didn't even end up going, so then he tried to get me to convince my mom to let another friend of ours stay over, too. At this point I felt used, and I had already tried to convince her to let our friend stay earlier but she said no. I tried again with the same result.

We hung out in my room for a while, he didn't want to smoke when I offered to pack a bowl because he was afraid of my mom catching us. She had already accused us smoking earlier that night, but we weren't then but that was still enough for him to be too sketched out. I made a comment to him about a porn video he showed me earlier in the week, telling him it was mad good. I found it and started watching it on my laptop next to him, we watched it for a few minutes and skipped around. He told me that it would be a nice start to my collection. When it was time to go to sleep, we got into my bed and after a minute he asked me for a blanket to sleep on the floor. He always sleeps in my bed with me, so I thought this was strange. I remembered after our friend stayed at my house (as mentioned earlier) he brought up how comfortable he was sleeping in my beanbag chair with blankets.

He asked me why I never gave him blankets before, and I reminded him of when he told me that he would rather spoon me. He instantly went on the defensive, saying that Sexual Deviant friend probably said that when he tried to rape me. I said that I knew he said it and he denied it again, and I left it at that. We were watching Tosh.0 when I got bored at started throwing my pillows at him. He didn't respond, so I threw some blankets on him and pounced on him.

He was smiling and I tried to grab my blankets from him, but he wouldn't let go. So I got on top of him and tried to pin him so I could take them away. We started wrestling each other, and he eventually pinned me in a sleeper hold (keep in mind he knows I like being choked). I tried to get away and he asked if I was done, I said no. So he punched me in the head; hard. Hard enough for me to find a few red spots and bruises on my face this morning. He finally stopped and started straddling me, he lay down on top of me and we stayed like that for a while.

I tried to get away and tried to hit him back, he told me if I didn't stop now that he wasn't going to. I ignored the warning, and he pulled me by my hair and threw me into the chair and hit me more. I told him to stop, and he got defensive again telling me that every time he stays over at my house I attack him while he's trying to go to sleep, then he asks me how I would like that being done to me. I got up and apologized, crawled back into my bed and that was the end of it.

He talked to me more after that, if he was mad (which he sounded when he told me I was attacking him) he wasn't anymore. That confused me even more. But I never punch him, I just try to pin him then I let go. He never actually told me to stop either, instead he would just ask me if I was done. I realize now that when I was first pinning him he was saying Potassium, and while I didn't remember it at the time it was our “safe word” we made the day we were choking each other.

I've interpreted that final episode as one of two things; either that is definite proof that he isn't gay or that he was enjoying it until I started pinning and becoming more aggressive. But I have a hindering feeling that it's the former of the two. Him becoming defensive twice like that was interesting, as well. I'm afraid that he might have been trying to figure out what my deal was too, but I was too cautious and now he thinks I'm straight and he's trying to talk his way out of everything.

So now I'm even MORE confused. Thanks for your responses, any help I can get would be great.

Hi, I just found your thread and so far I've only read this post. Fucking hell, the cops in the US raid your house if they catch you smoking/drinking inside while being underage? Loved your account of things, it was a really good read :yes:

[Djentleman]

I did what you said and had a long thought, I think I know what I'm going to do tomorrow afternoon.

After lunch when we have our free period together I'm going to ask him if he wants to go with me and kill my last two cigarettes. When we get to our smoke spot and spark up, I'll have a conversation with him.

I'm going to ask him if I've ever told him he's my best friend. I'm thinking really hard right now, and I'm pretty sure I've never said that to him.

I'll ask him if he still wants to quit cigarettes, he was talking about it for a while as was I. Neither of us did anything about it, but we could support each other. Most of the time we smoke them is when we're with each other, anyways. We were talking about quitting together, too. I'm just going to see if he was serious about it. If he agrees, I'll continue.

I'll tell him, "You're a person whom I don't want to have a falling out with, or ruin the relationship. I'll still want to be able to talk to college or something, you know?"

I feel that if he really is straight and trying to out me, and I'm about to ruin our friendship, that he needs to stop what he's doing. He might tell me that he think's I'm fucking up our friendship. Then I'll know this is all in my head.

If not, and he goes with it I'm doing nothing wrong. He might say something along the lines of, "Yeah I feel the same way, dude." and ask me if I still want to go to a couple schools we're mutually interested in. If this conversation goes well, it means we're good. Not saying there's been anything wrong with our friendship, though. We've actually been growing extremely close these last few weeks.

That won't answer whether or not he wants a relationship or to be friends with benefits. But it seems to be a surefire way of knowing he too has feelings for me, and he doesn't even have to admit anything to me. Much more comfortable for him, and myself. We would both know what we're talking about.

But I need feedback on this, I'm sort of unsure about it. Thanks in advance for your responses.


I suppose you're getting to the end of your tether man and I can understand the impatience and excitement of a real conclusion to this dilemma, but I think this should way for the retreat. This is only MY opinion however.

He should definitely know where you going with things if you do say what you want to say, and like you said, it could be the answer to your question on his motives all along. Just be thick skinned and hold up if it turns out wrong man. I hope it doesn't, but you can never be sure. Go with your gut. The moment you sense something isn't right, back track. Don't rush into it because you feel there won't be another time.

[ShredtheGnar]

So looks like this is the week I find out, or we're at least really close to it. I am still completely confused by what he's trying to do, but in case he is trying to out me to our friends and he's straight I have an exit strategy. And for him trying to do something as mean as that, in the end he'll not know and feel like shit.

I really don't want to hurt him like that, but if he would break our trust with something as mean as that I am not going to feel sorry for him. Coincidentally, the opportunity arose after he said something that put me on the defensive. So I feel like we're going to have a serious talk at synagogue tomorrow.

Backtracking a few days, I left for the retreat on Friday afternoon. I packed my stuff and he called and asked if I wanted to come over and smoke before we got on the bus for a few hours. I walked to his house with an hour to spare, my dad was going to pick us up there and drive us to the bus stop. When I got there, I was already sort of high as was he.

We were walking around in his living room planning a little and talking about what was going to happen over the weekend. I didn't hesitate to not make eye contact with him, I started staring him directly in the eyes. He kept looking back into mine and we both drifted away and looked at each other, and gazed into the other's eyes for a good minute. I know I saw something there, and he had a smirk on his face. I could tell he was really happy, and part of me quickly did as well so I sat down.

As I took a seat, I'm 95% certain that he was starting to get turned on. After I took a seat he quickly turned around from me and started to walk away from me and changed the subject. We smoked a bit and talked some more, a little less than an hour later we started walking to go meet my dad. While we were walking, he asked what I thought about his relationship with me was like.

I got nervous under pressure and blurted out a half thought reply. It was bad, along the lines of "I think you are someone who is much more open about your lives to others, and enjoys being in the company of others more than my other friends." Keep in mind I still haven't said to him he's my best friend, I have been waiting for the right time and I really think that need's to be top on my list of priorities this week.

He asked if I thought that true with his other guy friends, I said yeah. He said he talked to one of his female friends about this and had feedback from her but wanted to ask me one more question before telling me what she said. He asked what I thought his friendship's with other girls were like. I said that he had more of an ability to have an emotional relationship with girls rather than a physical or romantic one, and that gave him a greater ability to befriend them.

He was silent and didn't respond, a few seconds later my dad called and told us to run to meet him since we were late. We both picked up the pace, and I never had a chance to find out what she said. That's second on my list of priorities this week.

I was planning on telling him that he's my best friend on the bus, but he sat with one of his other female friends. I sat by myself across from him, and tried to go to sleep. At one point I did, and awoke a minute later when he put an M&M in my mouth. After we got there, him and I stayed close to each other that night while we made our way around to people and he introduced me to his friends.

We were sleeping at different houses, but saw each other again the next day. We spent the afternoon doing volunteer work before going to a dance that night. At the dance he set me up with a girl, her and I danced while he danced with another one of his friends who was a girl. They were dancing as friends, and he was sort of being my wingman. I went in to kiss her, she got mad awkward after and walked away from me a minute later. I went outside sort of hung up on what happened, he followed me out and we talked and he gave me the usual "there's always more fish in the sea" pep talk.

He didn't hook up with any of the girls there, he said he was about to with one but a guy told him he was trying to get with her so he backed off, the other guy was later rejected by her.

That was the only real thing worth mentioning from it, we both had fun and I made sure to leave him alone for a while and let him hang out with his other friends. The girl who agreed to go to prom with him said she couldn't go when he formally asked her, but another girl is trying to convince her parents to let her go with him, as friends.

We got home on Sunday, I went home and tried to get some sleep. Today, we met up after I got out of Driver's Ed. Him, Ron, and Paul (Fake name's I'm giving our friend's who are step brothers, they've been mentioned before) picked me up and we went to smoke. Us all being Jews, we chose the woods behind the local Jewish Community Center as our spot. While we were passing around the blunt, he sat down and said he felt like passing out.

Ron asked him if he could walk, he tried but didn't get far. It was in the high seventies outside, we figured the heat much have been getting to him and he was really high. We gave him a minute to collect himself before he started putting his arm on my shoulder for support. My initial reaction was to push him off, but he put it back. I started helping him, but he started breathing heavy and making noises. I quickly came to the conclusion that he was trying to out me or something, so I pushed him off again and he called me an asshole.

He started making a big deal about me being a shitty friend for not helping him, and Ron told him to chill. Him and Paul didn't think I was doing anything wrong, and I found it strange he freaked out. Paul helped him up to the car, at the end I joined and we got him into the car and to the gas station for a bottle of water. When we were in the car, Paul make a joke about Him making noises when I was trying to help him, such as telling me to go faster and slower. I also thought that it was weird when I was helping him, it was actually what made me think he was trying to out me.

Paul started asking me why I was pushing him off. I said it was just weird, and he said he knew what I meant and that I must be one of those people who doesn't like to get touchy. I said that was true, and the conversation pretty much ended there. We went to get dinner and He started acting funny, he said his mom was coming to pick him up to eat. So he chose to sit by himself at the front of the restaurant, counting his money in his wallet. For someone as especially social as him, that was strange. And sitting at the table, we all mutually noted it.

On Wednesday night, I got to synagogue late since I had Drivers Ed. He asked if I wanted to walk home with him and smoke a joint. I said that would be nice, as we were walking and talking I asked him if I had ever told him he was my best friend, knowing it was pretty obvious and that I hadn't verbalized it. He said that he had a feeling that was the case, noting that he was usually there when I hung out with people but he didn't know if he was the most important person there to me. I said that he was, and he laughed. A minute later he said thanks, that was the end of the conversation. He didn't return the gesture.

That was the last time we hung out for the rest of the week, since he started skipping school after that. A lot. To the extent of more than half of his classes for the rest of that week, and the past two days this week. Wednesday, our friend Gavin and I were both called by him in the morning before school. He asked us both to meet him for lunch and longboard with him, we agreed. But when we had our free period, we went to McDonalds and called him to meet up with him only for him to tell us he had mad kids at his house, during school. I asked if we could come over too, and he said no. I got awkward and annoyed, said bye, and hung up.

On Friday, he went with Paul to visit a college and spent the weekend there. I texted him once while he was there, he said he was at a party and too drunk to text.

I went to play frisbee at the park with Steve (Sexual Deviant friend) and a few other friends on Sunday night. While I was there, everyone started talking about when they were in the car with my Friend a few weeks ago when he put his pot up his butt (literally) thinking the cops were coming after him. Steve looked over at me and asked if I knew about that, I didn't. From there the conversation hovered around my Friend's sexuality for a moment before going elsewhere. I didn't really contribute besides saying that I wouldn't be overly surprised.

Monday was my birthday, when I called him up at lunch he sounded happy to talk to me and when I asked where he was he told me he stayed home to play xbox. I asked why was he at home, he said because he was pissed that his mom freaked out at him when she found out he cut on Thursday. He said that he was grounded and that he wouldn't be able to go to dinner with our friends that night, something we planned the week before. But instead, he asked if we could do it at his convenience, during our free period.

I texted Ron, who told me he couldn't drive and that he was in class. I called Him back, and told him that we couldn't go. I said that Ron, Paul, and I were hanging out after school and he was welcome to come, too. He told me to give him a call when I got out of class.

After school, I saw Paul in the hallway. He told me that they actually had something to do last minute and apologized. He assured me that I would still be getting my birthday present from them (still haven't as of now, though :-P) and was off. I called my friend, who told me he was with our friends and that I should walk over to their house. I did so, and when I got there we chilled and got chinese food. Our friend handed me a straight porn magazine, saying it was a little birthday present from him to me. I thanked him and panned through, it was actually a pretty nice one.

While we were chilling, I forget the context of the conversation but my friend began talking about a “spiritual experience” he had the day him and I went snowboarding with Ron. He said that he felt as if a higher being was reaching out to him, and that he had a higher purpose or something. He said that he chose not to answer this “calling,” however, because he would rather live a normal life rather than do something great, however he knew that he could be very happy if he answered it. He proceeded to say something about being teleported into a spaceship and being raped by an alien.

I sat there for a minute as the conversation carried on thinking, and pondered whether or not that he was trying to tell me something. Was this him trying to tell me, “Yeah, I am into you I just don't want to live my life as a homo?” The thought of that really hurt me, and I sort of shut down the rest of the night before going home for a cake with my family. I don't know if he just was having another Highdea sort of thing, though. I remembered him telling me the story at the mountain that day, but not the last part. And it honestly could be feasible that my rollercoaster emotions made me think that, I've been really unstable these last few days.

Today, I met up with Gavin for lunch and together we looked for Him for a minute. We both called us, but he ignored our calls. We asked around briefly to see if he was at school, no one had seen him. So we ate lunch and met up with a few people, including Paul. He asked us if we wanted to hang out after school, we happily obliged.

After school, I met them at Ron's car for him to drop us off at his and Paul's house before he went to work. We hung out until six, when Ron came home from work and drove us to school to drop off Gavin for an SAT class. Then we went to McDonalds for dinner, when my friend called me asking to chill. I told him he could meet us at McDonalds, he said he was driving and would be right over.

We sat in the car eating our McBites when I saw Him and Steve pulled into the spot next to us; in HIS car. He looked high as shit in the passenger seat, and when we rolled down the windows and asked where the fuck had he been, he said he had been figuring shit out with his life. Deciding what he wanted to do and seeing if he wanted to finish school and go to college. That downright scared me, and from the eerie feeling that went through the car I think Ron and Paul were too.

Interestingly, Steve and I had a conversation the other day about Him cutting after Steve started. The difference is that Steve never planned on going to college, and has a career path that doesn't require a college diploma. My friend, however, is a very smart person who should make something of himself. We both agreed that he is simply trying to be cool in Steve's foot steps, but I really don't understand what's going through his head right now. I think he needs to stop smoking pot for a while and clear up his head.

Ron and Paul asked if he wanted to smoke at their place, he agreed but said he needed to go home and get some bud first and drop off Steve. I asked if I could come in their car, so there would be someone else in the car after Steve hopped out. He told me to get in, and Steve gave me a big grin that definitely had some meaning behind it.

After we stopped at His house and dropped Steve home, we went to Ron and Paul's to chill for a while. An hour later, their parents came home and we had to leave. We all decided to meet up at His house, Ron and Paul had to go meet someone first. On the ride back, I asked Him when the first time he took the car out was, he said today. He said he didn't give a fuck if his mom found out (he only has his permit). I chose to stay quiet instead of start an argument with him, I really wanted to ask him what the fuck was he doing with himself.

We got to his house and went to play xbox, after a minute of silence I asked him “what's up.” Casually, as I really wanted to see what was going through his head as he is about to fuck up one of his most important grading periods of school. He quickly leaned away, asking “are you coming on to me, bro?” I said no, and he went on to ask if I was the “G” word. I said no flatly, and he walked away saying he meant “Jew,” said he tricked me and asked what I thought he said. I said gay, and he asked why did I think that and if I had gay thoughts.

I said no and told him to shut up. He didn't really try to have a conversation with me past that, and a short time later Ron and Paul came. A few minutes later, He told us he found out what was wrong with his mom's ex boyfriend and told us to guess. I had a feeling what it was, but stayed quiet. A second later Paul asked if it was Aspurgers and my Friend told him he was right. I called my Friend an asshole, saying he knew my Dad had it and to knock it off. I took it back when I realized he wasn't saying anything hurtful, but he still knew the conversation would make me feel awkward.

Paul asked for me to explain what it was, I told him my basic knowledge of it being a social behavioral disorder that causes people to have a difficult time interacting with others. I mentioned it being hereditary, and that I am a carrier of it. I said that my Dad was never officially diagnosed though, and that my grandfather wouldn't let him be diagnosed as a child out of pride. My grandmother told my mom this years ago, who told my older sister, who told me this past summer thinking I was mature enough to handle it.

Paul asked if I thought I had it, and I responded I didn't know and that it would solve a lot of the questions I've had about myself. He asked if it would explain the other day when I kept pushing my Friend off of me when he needed help walking, I said maybe.

I said that I've read a little about it on Wikipedia, and he asked me to tell him some of the characteristics of it. I pulled up the webpage on my phone and read it out to him, including the part about awkward eye contact made by individuals who have it. My initial idea was to say this should my friend be trying to out me, as a self defense mechanism. I could say that my extended eye contact with him is unintentional, and that I'm not gay. Hiding behind a disability such as Aspurgers is probably a scumbag thing to do, but it is true I don't know if I have it or not.

To some degree it's characteristics are a learned behavior, something I could have picked up from my father in childhood. And seeing my social skills aren't problematic (in general) I personally do not believe I have it. Wishful thinking, perhaps. But I really couldn't pursue diagnosis since my parents would find out my sister told me, and my Dad wouldn't be able to talk to me out of embarrassment. I have also been slightly removed from my peers, being slightly reserved and awkward in groups. I'm by no means popular, but I have had an extensive history of bullying over the years.

Anyways, my friend commented that it was interesting and I tried to move past the conversation, feeling sort of awkward. A few minutes later I asked Ron and Paul to drive me home, and on the way home we talked about it more. Paul referred to me as a case of “closeted aspurgers.” He seemed to hop on board with the positive diagnosis, I told him about my theory of it being more of a learned behavior. He said he could believe that, in a “nurture over nature” context.

After that ordeal, I went home and smoked a cigarette on my porch trying to figure out what the hell happened at his house. I am so confused right now, more than I was last night trying to figure out what his rant meant (if anything). I see my theory of his rant having a secluded message as very probable, and that bothers me that he would potentially throw away what could be a happy relationship for the sake of fitting in. If that is the case, I don't know if I would want to be friends with him anymore. Not from the rejection, I just wouldn't want to be friends with him knowing he is living a lie like that.

Or there's the possibility him and Steve have had a relationship for a while now, since I'm starting to think that they have spent their time cutting school together. I have a lot more reasoning behind this that I would rather not go into, but again I would be crushed by this.

On top of it all, I've been getting really depressed from the emotional toll of this. I've actually been thinking about hanging myself, something that hasn't even crossed my mind in four years, since Steve rejected me in eighth grade. This is really scaring me too, although I didn't go through with it before and don't think I would this time. I might talk to Him about this and gauge his reaction, I really want to ask him if he seriously doesn't think I'm aware of what's going on. I just want to talk to him and know the truth, while knowing I don't face social suicide be doing so.

I've thought about him being in the same boat, not trusting me enough to tell me the truth. Maybe this is all just a big game of chicken? I'll try and talk to him tomorrow, just the two of us. I still have to ask him what his friend said from our conversation to Friday's ago.

I've also been talking about Him with Gavin some. At lunch today, he said that he might stop hanging out with Him because of him being an asshole to all of his friends, he also said that he's turning into a scumbag. Keep in mind, they have been best friends since first grade. We both mutually agreed on his odd behavior lately, he's been acting really weird around us. More hostile, and less interested in his friends. Not to mention he ignores most of our calls and texts now.

[ShredtheGnar]

Hi, I just found your thread and so far I've only read this post. Fucking hell, the cops in the US raid your house if they catch you smoking/drinking inside while being underage? Loved your account of things, it was a really good read :yes:

Thanks for the support, and yeah the cops here are jerks. But I'm also in a small town where the cops have nothing better to do. :(

[ShredtheGnar]

I suppose you're getting to the end of your tether man and I can understand the impatience and excitement of a real conclusion to this dilemma, but I think this should way for the retreat. This is only MY opinion however.

He should definitely know where you going with things if you do say what you want to say, and like you said, it could be the answer to your question on his motives all along. Just be thick skinned and hold up if it turns out wrong man. I hope it doesn't, but you can never be sure. Go with your gut. The moment you sense something isn't right, back track. Don't rush into it because you feel there won't be another time.

I waited, and still am. He's just such an unreadable person I can't figure out his deal. I've been going by my gut instinct more, and it is in fact helping. It's just a matter of catching myself in time.

[Djentleman]

It sounds to me like he might feel rejected or mentally exhausted from all the smoking and shit that's been doing down.

That little episode where you guys had smoked and he out his arms around you for support, could have been a way of seeing how comfortable you are with him like that in close proximity. The breathing and noises weren't necessary though, so I don't blame you for feeling uneasy and trying to get him off. He's probably getting really anxious about the retreat and probably doesn't know how to go through with telling you anything he started out wanting to say

The Xbox episode seems shifty as hell. I immediately felt hostile towards him because of the aggression he put (or sounded like he did) into that questioning. I would have responded with something along the lines of "no I'm not, I was just seeing how you were because of all this unexplained shit you've been pulling off like missing school, unless you have something I don't know you want to tell me that I don't know?"

Doing that is one of the easiest ways to see how a person ticks and how they react to certain statements. He's just skipping all the small footing and going on the offence.

He you want to pick him up on what's been going on like you do want to, I think it could be alright. If he starts raging again, suggest quitting smoking for a hit for him to clear his head, because all that green and mind games don't mix well together and could pull someone under so fast, they don't even know what's hit them until they're left completely split.

Your decision about the aftermath of him possibly using you though is perfectly understandable and would be something I would do exactly the same. He's a lost cause and someone you should completely forget about if he's so shallow as to putting you through that.

End thought:
Ask him again whats up and see what's going through his mind. If he's vague, wait for The Retreat. If he's rude, go on the defence and ask him what's it to him. I thin he's cracking, but I don't know who over exactly. His own self doubt or his doubt about you.

[ShredtheGnar]

The smoking is definitely making this much more difficult. Today we were in lunch and I wanted to try and talk to him for a minute about what he exactly intends to do with his life as of now. He said he had a few options, ranging from working extra hard and boosting his grades to dropping out now. He decided he wants to follow something along the lines of my personal school work ethic model.

Basically working off a limited effort put into school to get slightly above average grades, what he's basically been doing for the past few years. We're both fairly smart as I've said before, and honestly don't need to do much to get decent grades. But now he knows he doesn't want to strive as highly as he originally intended.

The retreat was a couple weekends ago, I wrote up a summary of what happened but honestly it wasn't what I expected. There was a dance the last night, and I was expecting him to hook up with mad girls but instead he hung out around me the whole time and talked to some girls, but he was just friends with them. Not exactly my previous impression of his relationships with the girls there he had told me about. He did set me up with with alright looking girl but she didn't stay with me very long.

The xbox episode made me back off today, and there were multiple times at school he would try to make eye contact with me that I tried to avoid. He kept trying to lock eyes with me, and when I didn't I could see some emotion on his face. I couldn't exactly tell what it was, it was depressed but was that because his speculation was true and he's upset by that or because he's disappointed I won't look at him?

In History, there was a slightly amusing episode when the sub caught the kid behind my friend passing notes and approached him (really? use a goddam cellphone!) and told him "Give it to me." He said it more times and the class started laughing at the innuendo, he turned to me when there was no around and said he would give it to me. Later in the class we were having a conversation about imperialism, and he made a comment about Florida being the back door of the country. He looked at me and gave me a smirk.

I was so f**king confused, but gave him a smile back and turned back a second later. I think he might want to consider himself straight, but he's inadvertently burning himself. And if that's the case, I guess I just have to wait for if/when he is honest with himself.

At synagogue tonight, I borderline avoided him. Again, he kept trying to lock eye contact with him but I was pulling myself away. When we were sitting across the room from each other at one point he tried for a five minutes straight, when I would try to talk to someone and distract myself I would look back over for him to instantly turn back and look at me. After he stopped he got the same look on his face that he had at lunch.

I think the answer lies in the emotion he was showing.

[Loverocksyah]

lol u post # is 69...but anyways i think u should make ur move becuz he really seems to be into u...or judt really need ur affection

[Djentleman]

I think that pretty much solves the mystery about wether he knows something or not. It sounds like he knows or heavily suspects what your feelings and is mirroring the innuendo's back to you blatantly. The problem now is why exactly.

I don't think he's burning himself if he is straight, he's just telling you he knows what is going on and is being theatrical and mind gamey about it. All these obvious actions and hints all lead to him being an a*hole or someone that is really desperate to let you in on his secret, without the awkwardness of telling you head on. My thought is this: if he was secretly in love with you or gay, why would he be so blatantly displaying this public affection for you or conveying this message if he cared about protecting his image? That's what makes me think that he's not in the same boat as you. And I think him hanging out with others is a sign that maybe he was trying distance himself s bit because he felt uncomfortable when realising he might be right about his assumptions. He might have told a friend about his suspicions as well which is why some of the others are throwing those questions around.

These are hypotheticals, but I wanted you to see the naked truth and what my mind is interpreting from these events. I could be wrong,but I guess that's why its called an opinion. Anyway bud, I think the ball is firmly in your court and you're going to have to set a date as to when the truth hits home and to see if what we're saying is true or not.

[ShredtheGnar]

lol u post # is 69...but anyways i think u should make ur move becuz he really seems to be into u...or judt really need ur affection

Lol I thought that was funny too. I hope he is too, thanks for your reply!

I think that pretty much solves the mystery about wether he knows something or not. It sounds like he knows or heavily suspects what your feelings and is mirroring the innuendo's back to you blatantly. The problem now is why exactly.

I don't think he's burning himself if he is straight, he's just telling you he knows what is going on and is being theatrical and mind gamey about it. All these obvious actions and hints all lead to him being an a*hole or someone that is really desperate to let you in on his secret, without the awkwardness of telling you head on. My thought is this: if he was secretly in love with you or gay, why would he be so blatantly displaying this public affection for you or conveying this message if he cared about protecting his image? That's what makes me think that he's not in the same boat as you. And I think him hanging out with others is a sign that maybe he was trying distance himself s bit because he felt uncomfortable when realising he might be right about his assumptions. He might have told a friend about his suspicions as well which is why some of the others are throwing those questions around.

These are hypotheticals, but I wanted you to see the naked truth and what my mind is interpreting from these events. I could be wrong,but I guess that's why its called an opinion. Anyway bud, I think the ball is firmly in your court and you're going to have to set a date as to when the truth hits home and to see if what we're saying is true or not.

Yeah, I figured out right before the retreat he knows something is up. But he's not blatantly displaying affection for me, everything he said to me in class was in whispers with no one around. The eye contact was when everyone was focused on a conversation and the only other person looking in his direction was the teacher, who's openly gay.

And at synagogue, I was the one avoiding him. He hasn't been trying to get away from me at all actually, I thought no matter what that would happen from this so it's sort of strange. If you're referring to him going away with Paul last weekend, we were actually going to a private screening of the Hunger Games on Friday night. He didn't display any disappointment that we weren't going anymore when he changed his plans, but honestly any high schooler would give anything to go to frat parties for a weekend. In fact, he completely forgot about it in his excitement when Paul invited him.

I'm not intentionally debunking your thoughts, all I'm saying is that there is a solid argument both ways. I feel that if he is attracted to me, he would try to tell me in subtle ways rather than being up front about it. Hell that's what I've been doing...

But if this behavior continues, how do I respond to it? Should I flirt back with him in the same subtle way, or attempt something more? I would rather let him be 100% confident before I imposed anything, and to be honest I'm still not 100% myself, I've actually been facing the reality that I myself have a slight internalized homophobia or something; towards myself and my accepting of myself as who I am, as I'm a very accepting person.

[Djentleman]

I understand your argument and it seems valid and quite possibly on point, but you have to make sure you're not stepping into self denial and end up defending his opposing motives. Now I'm not saying you are in denial, I just want to make sure you still have a firm grip on the possible reality of what he might be trying to do as well. But none of us know at the moment I guess.

If he does continue however, giving these signals, then I think you should go right on ahed and give it back to him, but don't make it a "pouring out my feelings" gesture, just a playfully flirtatious response to his action. He's too damn unpredictable, thats the thing that throws things out of the window when you think you have a firm grasp on the situation. One minute you think that actually things might be looking up, the next, he's like borderline offended at the possibility of you trying to come on to him. It makes no sense. A part of me wants to just tell you to get on with it and tell him straight on in black and white what the hell is going on and if he wants to stick with you or not but this current part of my psyche is telling me its wiser to just keep you passive and just observing.

I don't think you've got some secret homophobia about you, I think you're just frustrated and probably confused about certain aspects of your sexuality. Then again, I'm not a mind reader and I don't know you or haven't seen you, so I can't tell you what only you can know. But don't beat yourself about this situation. I know exactly what its like to believe someone is your ideal other half, yet you can't just make a move because of so many elements existing.

One question: Does he use homophobic slurs regularly and does he exude male heterosexual bravado?

[OntarioKid]

So, Ive spent most of last night and this morning reading through this thread because this is so similar to me and what happened to me. The only difference is, Im a little older than you and my friend doesnt smoke or do drugs, in fact hes such a hard worker its rediculous.

To be honest it made me lose alot of sleep last night because I cant stop thinking about him now. I have been his good friend since 7th grade. We used to sleep over every weekend and cuddle and wrestle. We also tickled each others backs and what not alot. Never done anything sexual but Ive always wanted to. Im just afraid if I do anything Il ruin our friendship. He is my best friend.

Were through high school now and this winter Ive moved across the country to ski. So i havent seen him in about 4 months and Il be going home within the next 2 weeks. I never thought I would miss him this much but I do and I just cant believe how similar our stories are.

[OntarioKid]

Sorry for the second post. You mentioned earlier that you had thoughts of suicide. I know what that feels like but trust me what ever your dealing with you will get through it and life will move on and get better. Imagine how devastated your family and friends would be if you decided to go through with it. I dont even know you and when you said that it made me upset.

Also, it seems like your friend is looking for signs from you just as you are from him. But it seems like his ways of going about it are a bit more unusual and more blunt. My friend was the same way and Im sure he made advances towards me but I never know how to take it and like you Im always worried that for some reason if I dont say no or dont stop his advances, he is just going to accuse me of being gay. Even though hes the one making the advance. It tears me apart, it really does, the fact that I dont know what hes thinking or what he wants.

Im sorry I know this post is about you but I havent ever talked to anyone about this and Ive kept it secret for a few years. I just thought it might help both of us. I would like to talk to you about it because it really has been eating away at my insides.

[ShredtheGnar]

Sorry for the second post. You mentioned earlier that you had thoughts of suicide. I know what that feels like but trust me what ever your dealing with you will get through it and life will move on and get better. Imagine how devastated your family and friends would be if you decided to go through with it. I dont even know you and when you said that it made me upset.

Also, it seems like your friend is looking for signs from you just as you are from him. But it seems like his ways of going about it are a bit more unusual and more blunt. My friend was the same way and Im sure he made advances towards me but I never know how to take it and like you Im always worried that for some reason if I dont say no or dont stop his advances, he is just going to accuse me of being gay. Even though hes the one making the advance. It tears me apart, it really does, the fact that I dont know what hes thinking or what he wants.

Im sorry I know this post is about you but I havent ever talked to anyone about this and Ive kept it secret for a few years. I just thought it might help both of us. I would like to talk to you about it because it really has been eating away at my insides.

I just read your post, I actually took a break from this forum for a few weeks to try and snap back into the reality of it instead of letting my emotions take control. And the result was slightly interesting.

In truth, I really think there is something between us. I've slowly been catching on to what he's doing, and I think he just wants me to come out to him at this point. He knows I caught onto his signals, and as of right now it's my move. But I need him to tell me right out before I can tell him back. He has been giving signals, some of them as close you can come to right out telling me as possible.

Instead, I would rather just cuddle with him in my bed for a few hours and talk about it. The last two weeks, I've tried to cuddle with him a couple times, both he pushed me off. However, when I'm not trying to get close to him he's trying to get close to me. It just confuses the shit out of me, my best guess is that he's taunting me and then friend zoning me right before anything more happens because either (a) he himself isn't totally comfortable with his sexuality yet, or (b) he is simply waiting for me to tell him.

I read a on Reddit's /r/gay subforum a few weeks ago. The poster was explaining a very similar situation, and in the end his best friend who he eventually started dating did the exact same thing until he came out to him. I had a theory that was happening before, but found it too wild to believe to be true. But that post makes me curious if he's actually trying to teach me a lesson or something.

I think he might have caught onto me getting paranoid that Paul was trying to replace me as his friend. When we were longboarding to his house a couple Friday's ago, he told me "When you leave my house tonight, you're going to know what I know assuming that you already don't know it. But even if you don't know what I'm referring to, you will still know."

Later that night Paul came over to spend the night at my friend's house, I went home around eleven. While we were hanging out, Paul told us about him and Ron getting a UPM and that their parents took their car away. But they had a scale and some bags with them, the cop told them that he could have also charged them with DUI and Intent to Sell. Honestly they got off scott free compared to what could have been.

But he also had a couple stories about girls he had hooked up with, and one he banged. That could have potentially been His way of telling me Paul isn't gay and I shouldn't worry. When He was on the phone with Paul before, Paul said he could find girls to come to the house where His mom was away, but He told him no. When I asked him what I would know the next day, he said it was simply that Paul was coming over.

But he's the sort of person who would tell the partial truth and not feel bad, although he's withheld vital information. So when I ask him to explain himself, I usually know to take it with a grain of salt. But for the sake of lack of evidence, I'm not going to try and figure that whole thing out.

Tonight at synagogue, I discussed details for my junior prom with my date. I found it funny that he seemed to be talking to her for me about it while I was right there. But him and I have both talked about what we want to do, so maybe he was just staying in the loop. What went from a limo with four couples shrunk to him and his date (a friend from his camp) to me and my date.

That was what I hoped would happen, and it sort of made my day that he worked that out while I had never told him I wanted that. In fact, we were in total sync with each other all day. We ended up spending a lot of time alone together at school, as we did yesterday. That has all been his decision, and it's something worth mentioning as he is an extremely social person. Almost as if he knew that was all I wanted to do- all while I didn't even hint it.

Then while we were walking to the coat room before leaving, he looked back at me and down on himself hinting that I had been looking at his butt. He smiled at me and I just gave him a blank look back, probably one of my weaker moments. I just don't know what my next move should be, or what he wants from me.

I'm afraid if I don't do something, anything soon he's going to lose interest again. But if he's actually still not ready to come out of the closet, I might scare him away.

[ShredtheGnar]

Also left out that he has been recruiting kids to sign up for the Day of Silence on Friday. He claims to everyone that he's doing it to get high and not have to talk in class on 4/20, and that same idea has got a bunch of pot heads to sign up. He said that the gay part didn't matter to him, but he's only said that when we're with other people. I might try to strike up that conversation tomorrow when we're alone to see if anything he says changes.

But if it wasn't for him telling to me sign up, I wouldn't have. I guess no matter what something good will come out of Friday.

[Loverocksyah]

wow...lol

[Djentleman]

Hey man, glad you came back! I was close to sending you a PM asking you where you went, but you answered that for me :)

It actually is a good stance to take, breaking away from here for a bit to get back to the situation at hand and it looks to be like you've pretty much made up your mind about things. I agree with your perspective on his reasons for the constant mood change that he displays when relative closeness is initiated. It's confusing to you, but I think he might be just as confused. I think he doesn't know wether or not being too comfortable is the right thing, just like you said.

I think you just have to go on the offence and start hinting back. If he bites, then he might just be in to you. He could be genuinely in the middle of figuring himself out. he probably doesn't know which direction he truly wants to take.

Good Luck.

[Thylacine]

Bump.

[OntarioKid]

Im also glad that you decided to come back on and share more of your story. The more you say the more in common our stories become. The only differences are is that when my friend gives me "signals" its not just funny looks, he will offer to cuddle and often times if I get close to him he will lick me. But its weird cause he will grab my hand and just lick it or put it in his mouth, almost like he knows im loving every second of it. But if i lick him he usually pushes me away or says "gross" or something like that. Also for the last 3 years or so, when I watch porn (gay or straight) all i can think about is him... does this happen to you?

[vitorioso]

Hope you didn't forget about us! I've basically spent half the day reading your posts, because your situation relates so much to what I felt with a friend during April and May. Although I wasn't in high school (I am going to be a freshman this September!) it related very much to what you are experiencing. Mix signals, emotions, all that jazz.

Please reply and tell us what happened! I am sure school is out for most of the United States (just ended here in NY) so you must have confessed something to your friend! I honestly think that this entire thread could be made into an independent movie just because of the absolute rollercoster it has been :D.

So please, do remember to tell :)

[Curoz]

Great read. Any news?

[ShredtheGnar]

Hey everyone, it's been a while!

At this point, I've come out to him and he told me he isn't gay and is in fact completely heterosexual. What followed was a few days of him being a bit on edge and us talking more about things pertaining to the subject, but we're still friends.

But I'm not certain this is the end of the story. He can't deny what he did, and while I didn't recall specific events I made a point that he was doing some mad weird shit; as well as voicing to him my certainty of his sexuality. His reaction to this was strangely unemotional, and he sort of diverted the questions away from himself.

I no longer feel like making assumptions based on what happens in my life, so think of this what you will. Everything written here was true, in all honesty he has a lot of self explaining to do. But I'm being non-confrontational and since the brief period of us discussing my sexuality it has become unspoken of in normal conversation.

The thing is, I myself lied to him when I came out to him. I told him I was bi-sexual and was only looking for a guy to fool around with; and that I was devoted to marrying a girl someday, after having him tell me he wouldn't tell anyone. Beginning to digress, I stopped talking before saying he is the only person that statement didn't apply to.

To be honest I still have a slight doubt, but understand for our relationship to work I must see our friendship in a different light. My thought is it's all perspective, and that if I see him as something more as a friend I will subconsciously act on it. I half lied when I said him being straight didn't effect our relationship. But he really is a wonderful person and I enjoy his company and friendship, I also believe pot was causing my extreme emotions for him.

In the mindset he is actually straight, I am taking this as a learning experience and that first or second love might be foolish and impulsive. Since this and the transformation in our friendship I have been working on my observational skills. Us finally fulfilling my aforementioned plan to trip on acid and smoke all my saved keef sort of gave things a nudge.

Should he come out of the closet to me later on, I honestly won't be all too surprised. But now I don't feel as if I can make that leap I was so prepared for at the time I wrote here last, in April. I would have to tell him he hurt me, and led me to the conclusion I hurt him. These conjoining factors crushed me, leading to a slightly self destructive freak out. I really don't know how that conversation would play out, but it most likely isn't happening nor do I really want it to anymore.

But I'm all about moving on and meeting other people. I just want to be in something soon, right now I want to try having a girlfriend again and seeing how I feel about the relationship. What I felt towards him was a completely different animal opposed to anything I feel for girls. I want to have sex with one and the idea of longterm relationships is appealing, but I don't know if I'm capable of feeling that with a girl, as well.

Not really expecting anything longterm stemming from that, I want to try and rekindle a relationship with a guy I used to have a crush on my first two years of high school. Freshmen year I punched him in the face in homeroom when he flirted with me, not at the time at rest with my emotions. He called me out on being gay a year later and I replied, "You wish I was." I tend to miscommunicate my intentions towards people.

I messaged him when I saw he was online last summer (thinking back, why?) and we were able to have a conversation, basically as total strangers for about ten minutes. I also have tried sitting with him and his friends a lunch a handful of times, but I don't really fit into that group. The kid's really shy though, and I fear he may still hate me for what happened then.

I remembered that day and what I did to him during the trip, and now feel I should at least apologize to him. I never did and feel badly, and also would like to become more acquainted with him. I'm not sure if he's into guys too or if it was just him joking around. He used to also try to show me his compression shorts in Art, Freshman year. I don't know for sure still what we was up to, but I'm down for an adventure.

[Djentleman]

Wow, what a conclusion to this tale. First off, I'd like to say thanks for coming back and shedding light on everything that has happened to your relationship. It's pretty much the only reason I would come back on here. Now that you've told us the final chapter, I'm happy to be closing mine here as well.

I'm really sorry to hear that he's either in denial and denied you because of he's insecurity or because he isn't actually gay. Like we had discussed several times before, the actions and signs he was sharing was very evident of flirtation and frustration of wanting more, yet bing to afraid to explore.

This ended in exactly the same way friendship with someone I liked did as well, minus the coming out. all you can do is move on man and keep that mindset of him being just a friend or acquaintance and nothing more. I really hope for yours sake that if and when he does come out to you and wants a relationship with you, that you keep your wit about you and just showing him your support and nothing more. It's very very hard for someone to show their love to someone and have that person deny you because of their fear of spoiling their public image.

I am proud of you for taking that step man. It's something I have yet to do, so I know how hard it is to get into that affirmative mindset and go for it. Only one thing though. If you know that you're not into girls and you know it's only going to end before you've even made the start, I recommend not doing it. Just stick with what you know you have a chance of having a future with man. It's really tough putting someone through something like that when they eventually find out the truth or something along the lines.

That guy at the end sounds like a shot worth going for and I think making amends and starting a fresh might be the start to your clarification and happiness in your own self.

I also think your writing has improved ten fold since you last updated on here. Like seriously, I thought you were a pleasure reading, but you've refined your technique and I love it. So congrats on so many levels.

[eggy101]

Wow what an amazing read, I’ve been following since day 1 and am truly amazed. I admire your braveness and courage through this whole episode what is and will be your life. Thank You for Sharing.
As ii said I have been following from day 1 and I am sure that your friend does have some more lustful feeling for you, but that will all be revealed in time.
In saying that all of us here would love you to keep the posts up and giving us info [(maybe a monthly blog? Even if it’s about your pot-smoking, beer-ponging misadventures) we would be lying if we said we didn’t enjoy those.
I’d like to apologise as I never put any input or my opinion in the thread, but it was always in fear of leading you in the wrong direction, pushing you towards a situation that would hurt both you and your best mate.

The other guy you mention at the end sounds like a catch, do you guys share any common interests? If so he’s a cracker, just put the past where it belongs, behind you.(and apologise)
I know I have no right to but, I would like to thank both nick and djentlemen as some of the advice obliviously helped you, but it also really helped me.
So I leave with just a thank you, you have actually been an inspiration and helped my find my ‘homo’sexuality ;), and accept it, somehow.

If your ever down under here in Australia mate hit me up and we can chucka couple of shrimp on a barbie together ;)

Thnx With Love
Eggy

[crisel]

Indeed! Posts are long, very long. Fun of reading it.

[journey]

yea i read it all and i think he likes u back but u cant be sure so dont rush on to somthing to be honst i thoght u were a girl for the1 part of it and i really dont know any good anser cause 11 girl:confused: so i really dont kno

[jjsmitty]

Wow that was such a great read, only come across this today and it was like a tv programme! I've been in a similar situation to you where I had a very straight friend who I had had a crush on for years. We had a sleepover and I confessed my bisexuality to him in the dark whilst getting to sleep. He didn't really reply other than "oh" and we eventually fell asleep. The next morning I heard him get up and begin to brush his teeth and after a bit of general talk basically asked him what he thought. He said he thought he might be Bi aswell! Completely out of the blue, I had crushed on this guy for years and secretly absolutely fell in love with him. I never got any gay or bi hints from him but sometimes things just work out. We eventually got into a relationship which has stood the test of time for the past few years. Honestly I know how you feel crushing after straight guy friends but sometimes it does work out, as in my case, worst case scenario for you is you stay as friends, which to me is very good.
I thank you for creating an incredible read and wish you the best of luck in your friendship! :D

[ShredtheGnar]

Wow, what a conclusion to this tale. First off, I'd like to say thanks for coming back and shedding light on everything that has happened to your relationship. It's pretty much the only reason I would come back on here. Now that you've told us the final chapter, I'm happy to be closing mine here as well.

I'm really sorry to hear that he's either in denial and denied you because of he's insecurity or because he isn't actually gay. Like we had discussed several times before, the actions and signs he was sharing was very evident of flirtation and frustration of wanting more, yet bing to afraid to explore.

This ended in exactly the same way friendship with someone I liked did as well, minus the coming out. all you can do is move on man and keep that mindset of him being just a friend or acquaintance and nothing more. I really hope for yours sake that if and when he does come out to you and wants a relationship with you, that you keep your wit about you and just showing him your support and nothing more. It's very very hard for someone to show their love to someone and have that person deny you because of their fear of spoiling their public image.

I am proud of you for taking that step man. It's something I have yet to do, so I know how hard it is to get into that affirmative mindset and go for it. Only one thing though. If you know that you're not into girls and you know it's only going to end before you've even made the start, I recommend not doing it. Just stick with what you know you have a chance of having a future with man. It's really tough putting someone through something like that when they eventually find out the truth or something along the lines.

That guy at the end sounds like a shot worth going for and I think making amends and starting a fresh might be the start to your clarification and happiness in your own self.

I also think your writing has improved ten fold since you last updated on here. Like seriously, I thought you were a pleasure reading, but you've refined your technique and I love it. So congrats on so many levels.

Yeah, to be honest I sort of forgot about this place. It popped into my head the other night, however after everything went down I debated whether or not to return. I never decided, and I had a feeling at least you would want to know how it panned out. Your advice really helped me, and I'm grateful for it. I don't have the post count to message you back, but I'll work on it.

And with me looking for a relationship with a girl, I'm not really trying to do anything I'm just saying what I feel like at the moment. For example, I was at Verizon with my friend yesterday and took note of her standing as close to me as possible while we both talked to the rep, and the fact that her shoe seemed to touch mine wherever it was planted as we stood there.

However, I'm not going to jump onto this newfound opportunity. I had another hint she likes me, so I feel this assumption isn't as drastic. I would rather continue being friends, and should something happen at a later point in time we can take it one step at a time (or go nuts on each other). I think she's pretty cute, her personality is a huge bonus. I also feel as if we would make a good couple, but I'm just feeling it out.

I'm not going to be mind gamey, should she start making more moves. If theres one thing this whole experience taught me is that it's not fair to the other person and makes the perpetrator a bastard. I'd rather be up front with her at the beginning of the relationship about my sexuality, and while I've never actually been with another man that would be something I would want her to accept. She's bi too, as I've heard; so I'm not too worried.

Thanks for your positive feedback on my writing. I've been working on the flow of my words, as you said perfecting my technique. Your own writing is great, by the way. The well organized replies you posted made you a pleasurable penpal to correspond to these past few months, I would be more than happy to keep in touch.

Wow what an amazing read, I’ve been following since day 1 and am truly amazed. I admire your braveness and courage through this whole episode what is and will be your life. Thank You for Sharing.
As ii said I have been following from day 1 and I am sure that your friend does have some more lustful feeling for you, but that will all be revealed in time.
In saying that all of us here would love you to keep the posts up and giving us info [(maybe a monthly blog? Even if it’s about your pot-smoking, beer-ponging misadventures) we would be lying if we said we didn’t enjoy those.
I’d like to apologise as I never put any input or my opinion in the thread, but it was always in fear of leading you in the wrong direction, pushing you towards a situation that would hurt both you and your best mate.

The other guy you mention at the end sounds like a catch, do you guys share any common interests? If so he’s a cracker, just put the past where it belongs, behind you.(and apologise)
I know I have no right to but, I would like to thank both nick and djentlemen as some of the advice obliviously helped you, but it also really helped me.
So I leave with just a thank you, you have actually been an inspiration and helped my find my ‘homo’sexuality ;), and accept it, somehow.

If your ever down under here in Australia mate hit me up and we can chucka couple of shrimp on a barbie together ;)

Thnx With Love
Eggy

As I said, I'm not certain that this is the end of the story. The post replied to below kindles this thought; but for me to move on I need to go only by the reality, what actually happens. He has undoubtably been acting stranger each week, but I'll wait for him to talk to me. At this point I've approached him, I see no more need for effort on my end. If he wants support, he has it.

This thread has been helpful for accepting my own sexuality, as well. The worst part of being completely in the closet was the isolation, and just talking about it here was such a great leap and broke many barriers. Lying to myself was making me stupider, and I'm so happy I have a friend IRL to talk to if need be. While writing here made everything ten times better, telling him really was the icing on the cake.

Should I ever be down under, I'll be sure to send a message your way. I have a cousin who just moved back to the states after spending a couple of years there. Definitely a priority on my list of international travel spots. Are you inland or on the coast?

Wow that was such a great read, only come across this today and it was like a tv programme! I've been in a similar situation to you where I had a very straight friend who I had had a crush on for years. We had a sleepover and I confessed my bisexuality to him in the dark whilst getting to sleep. He didn't really reply other than "oh" and we eventually fell asleep. The next morning I heard him get up and begin to brush his teeth and after a bit of general talk basically asked him what he thought. He said he thought he might be Bi aswell! Completely out of the blue, I had crushed on this guy for years and secretly absolutely fell in love with him. I never got any gay or bi hints from him but sometimes things just work out. We eventually got into a relationship which has stood the test of time for the past few years. Honestly I know how you feel crushing after straight guy friends but sometimes it does work out, as in my case, worst case scenario for you is you stay as friends, which to me is very good.
I thank you for creating an incredible read and wish you the best of luck in your friendship! :D

Thanks for your reply, today's post is brought to you by Captain Crunch. :D

I think your story is great, the best part is your relationships success. I've been starting to realize it's quite common for this to happen, but as you said you were lucky. It would still be a great experience, I'm happy for you, him, and the happiness you achieve for give each other.

[eggy101]

As I said, I'm not certain that this is the end of the story. The post replied to below kindles this thought; but for me to move on I need to go only by the reality, what actually happens. He has undoubtably been acting stranger each week, but I'll wait for him to talk to me. At this point I've approached him, I see no more need for effort on my end. If he wants support, he has it.

This thread has been helpful for accepting my own sexuality, as well. The worst part of being completely in the closet was the isolation, and just talking about it here was such a great leap and broke many barriers. Lying to myself was making me stupider, and I'm so happy I have a friend IRL to talk to if need be. While writing here made everything ten times better, telling him really was the icing on the cake.

Should I ever be down under, I'll be sure to send a message your way. I have a cousin who just moved back to the states after spending a couple of years there. Definitely a priority on my list of international travel spots. Are you inland or on the coast?


I live on the coast of new south wales at bondi (if you know that) it was lovely to see your reply and i have nothing more to say but your right, did you say it was your cousin? Where did they stay?

[jegoss02]

Dude. Just spent 3 hours reading this. Lol. It was a great story. Sorry it didn't work out as well as you might have hoped but things happen in life so that we can learn from them. Happiness to you.

[WonderTastic]

I'm so late but I am glad I returned. Not the ending I would want but life works out and he might not be ya guy. I also have moved on and I'm so ready to find my guy so you keep looking for yours.