Do you think society has accepted homosexuality?

[Cicero]

What I mean is, do you think society in general has accepted it? Hav they accepted it where you live? Have they accepted it in your school?

FYI this isn't bashing anyone, don't want a bad rep saying I find this offensive or whatever.

I believe that where I live it's slowly being accepted, but my school isn't even close to accepting it.

[Malcolm Tucker]

No matter what day and age it is, the entire society is never going to be unanimously supportive of homosexuality (not just limited to that though, most things will never be fully agreed on). In my society, no. I live in a largely conservative, old fashioned country, where the Catholic Church has had a huge influence in peoples' mindsets from day 1. That being said, with the influx of the new generation, society is becoming increasingly accepting of homosexuality, I've found that the older the age-group, the more likely they are to be against it. I'm speaking about my country, from my own experiences, though.

[Anselmo]

do you think society in general has accepted it? No
Have they accepted it where you live? No
Have they accepted it in your school? No

I think it will take a few more years, and rubbing it on people's faces with parades doesn't help much...now i have nothing against, but a couple years ago i was against and parades only increased the hate....

[CrossingtheCourtyard]

I think society is really starting to get better, there's still a long way to go, but I think it's getting better.

It's legal to get married if you are a same-sex couple in Canada and my community is relatively cool with it, I think. I haven't seen or heard any hate crimes and for the most part people are against discrimination towards people of other orientations.

My school is pretty good too, we have GSA, discrimination about orientation is looked down upon, lot's of classes have 'Safe Space' marked on their windows, and a lot of people wear support ribbons and bracelets. We have poster's against homophobia all over the school too--nothing at all for biphobia or mentioning bisexuals at all, but it's still good, I think.

[BeyondOne]

Honestly, I don't think so. Some have, but definitely not as a whole. Yes, we have now allowed some same sex marriage. Yes, we have now allowed lgbt into our military. However, we are still far from getting down and accepting it. There is still too much hate, especially in schools. Teens these days are constantly bullied, hassled, and made fun of just because of who they like. This leads to suicide which is still very much a constant problem.

So all in all, society still hasn't accepted it

[Jupiter]

not everyone. i wish. that would be the coolest thing ever.

[Misfit]

In Australia we are still fighting for marriage rights but are being delayed by close-minded bigots and religious fanatics with positions of power (I.e Tony Abbott) Who can't seem to accept the fact that he is only delaying the inevitable...

[wattado]

people will eventually learn to accept it but right now people still see it as wrong. i hope in my lifetime that this will change and we can be accepted by all.

[kenoloor]

No matter what day and age it is, the entire society is never going to be unanimously supportive of homosexuality (not just limited to that though, most things will never be fully agreed on). In my society, no. I live in a largely conservative, old fashioned country, where the Catholic Church has had a huge influence in peoples' mindsets from day 1. That being said, with the influx of the new generation, society is becoming increasingly accepting of homosexuality, I've found that the older the age-group, the more likely they are to be against it. I'm speaking about my country, from my own experiences, though.

Agreed with Michael. And while I live in a particularly liberal area (suburbs of Chicago), there are still many places even around here that are still very unaccepting. The GSM community will always face adversity. That's just the way it is. But the LGBs have come an enormously long way since the 70s. The Transgender community is much further behind.

[Spook]

I don't think that society is there yet, but we do hope for the near future. At least some people are always going to not accept it though; like michael said.

[Donkey]

Not really. Even the people you think were more liberal turn out to think it's wrong, unnatural or a choice for the most part. "I have no problem with gay people, it is their choice if they want to fuck guys but I don't agree with it" is the usual bullshit response I get. I tend to compare their unfounded prejudice with racism and they usually take their points back, since calling someone a racist is probably the most offensive and sensitive thing you can do here. Then they understand.

People are prejudice; I am prejudice, you are prejudice. Perhaps to different and extents, and perhaps about different things. But that is the way humanity is. Shoving homosexuality down peoples throats (no pun intended) like these gay pride events and such do is just frustrating and actually makes the problem worse; if gays would just relax and integrate with the rest of society just as everyone else does without the fuss being made they are a homosexual, then I think the problem would be far lesser.

The truth is that being gay for a lot of people is something that identifies them. It makes them feel worth a little bit more and gives them something to care about; some people dress up real weird and wear excessive make up and very often they are also LGBT. That is a stereotype, but it is also a fact. Those are the figureheads for the hate towards the gay community. Just by acting relaxed and not trying to use my sexuality as something significant, I have actually made a lot of people less homophobic after coming out to them - they understand that not all gay people fit the stereotype and they appreciate that.

Until the narcissistic, materialistic, and vein gay community dissipates, the hatred will remain and they will be the figurehead.

[Cicero]

Not really. Even the people you think were more liberal turn out to think it's wrong, unnatural or a choice for the most part. "I have no problem with gay people, it is their choice if they want to fuck guys but I don't agree with it" is the usual bullshit response I get. I tend to compare their unfounded prejudice with racism and they usually take their points back, since calling someone a racist is probably the most offensive and sensitive thing you can do here. Then they understand.

People are prejudice; I am prejudice, you are prejudice. Perhaps to different and extents, and perhaps about different things. But that is the way humanity is. Shoving homosexuality down peoples throats (no pun intended) like these gay pride events and such do is just frustrating and actually makes the problem worse; if gays would just relax and integrate with the rest of society just as everyone else does without the fuss being made they are a homosexual, then I think the problem would be far lesser.

The truth is that being gay for a lot of people is something that identifies them. It makes them feel worth a little bit more and gives them something to care about; some people dress up real weird and wear excessive make up and very often they are also LGBT. That is a stereotype, but it is also a fact. Those are the figureheads for the hate towards the gay community. Just by acting relaxed and not trying to use my sexuality as something significant, I have actually made a lot of people less homophobic after coming out to them - they understand that not all gay people fit the stereotype and they appreciate that.

Until the narcissistic, materialistic, and vein gay community dissipates, the hatred will remain and they will be the figurehead.

Ya, when I would first think of a gay I would think of a guy cross dressing and wearing makeup. Well I found out that my 45 year old 3-4 cousin is gay and it shocked me cause I was think "I wouldn't have ever thought. He would be gay!" so that was the beginning of me thinking gays were like any other people. And truthfully coming on here has really helped me to see that gays and bis are like any other person. I was raised in a very religious home and I was taught that al that isn't good, and I believed it, probably even until I came on here. But then I started thinking, being gay isnt really wrong. But it's not something I personally would do. But I am very curious and a few months ago I was left wondering am I gay? And i found out that I'm just very curious. But as of this point I have nothing against gays. I personally don't like when they cross dress, but that's nothing against gays. I only like people who appear normal.

[Scoob]

Do you think society in general has accepted it? Nope and I doubt the entirety of the Earth's population ever will. Parents will pass on their ignorance to the next generation. It's just how it goes.
Have they accepted it where you live? The Majority has.
Have they accepted it in your school? Entirely.

[Stronger]

I dont think i will ever be 100% accepted, my school doesnt, not too sure where I live, I know some poeple do but not alot

[Electra Heart]

No, sort of, and no. People don't realize it but 50 years from now (well, hopefully 50 years) our children's children are going to read in history textbooks about the discrimination of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders the same way they'll learn about segregation like we are now. Well, that is things go the way their going, for all we know, we could get another jackass like George Bush up there, illegalize the gays again. They act like it's a choice, why the hell would someone CHOOSE to be ridiculed by the neanderthals that walk the streets with the attention span of a peanut? Screaming "FAGGOT!" while they toss another Bud Light onto the pile and scratch their distended stomach. Then proceed waddle back into the house and spank off to 2 gay chicks swapping saliva... it doesn't make sense...

[Rayquaza]

I think that majority of society has. But we will never have a full society that is pro-homosexual.

[Short Circuit]

I don't think society has accepted it, but SOME tolerate it, and that will always be the case.

[Cicero]

No, sort of, and no. People don't realize it but 50 years from now (well, hopefully 50 years) our children's children are going to read in history textbooks about the discrimination of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenders the same way they'll learn about segregation like we are now.

I don't think it will ever get that far where it will be in kids text books. But who knows. I know that if it were to go in the text books their would be a huge battle between people who are Pro Gay and people who are Anti Gay.

[kenoloor]

I don't think it will ever get that far where it will be in kids text books. But who knows. I know that if it were to go in the text books their would be a huge battle between people who are Pro Gay and people who are Anti Gay.

It will be soon. (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-14/us/california.lgbt.education_1_california-governor-signs-bill-gay-history-state-textbooks?_s=PM:US[/URL)

[Cicero]

It will be soon. (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-14/us/california.lgbt.education_1_california-governor-signs-bill-gay-history-state-textbooks?_s=PM:US[/URL)

Well it will be harder for them to sign it in states like Utah, Arizona, Texas, and a lot of the eastern states. I bet it will be almost impossible for Utah and Texas though, because Utah is overrun with Mormans and Texas Christians. I'd think that only about 20 states would do that. But i don't get what they would teach about. It's not like it's a race, so their would only be a few pages dedicated to them. Because its not like it's been a battle that they've been fighting for 100+ years. Only within the past 40+ years. Before 1960 that was majorily frowned upon. I'm not routin for any specific side but fro the way I see it they have one hell of a battle to go through and probably a battle that will only win a few states here and there.

[Stronger]

It will be soon. (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-14/us/california.lgbt.education_1_california-governor-signs-bill-gay-history-state-textbooks?_s=PM:US[/URL)

Now that is interesting isn't that the same state that wanted to ban same sex marriage

[DerBear]

Not being funny hear and I am not against homosexuality, but I agree with what some people have said about, it being rubbed in peoples faces, like all these programs and community efforts ect. to raise awarness and attempt to gain acceptance of homosexuality can and does only inflame the issue and make it stand out, I think that within the next 100 years or so that it will be mostly accepted because even now it is accepted mostly within the united kingdom. There will be some parts of the world that will not accept it but it will eventually come out. I just think that trying to advertise it with special groups and parades and campagins only keeps the hate going if these were silenced and the acceptance may become more natural, just saying

[kenoloor]

Well it will be harder for them to sign it in states like Utah, Arizona, Texas, and a lot of the eastern states. I bet it will be almost impossible for Utah and Texas though, because Utah is overrun with Mormans and Texas Christians. I'd think that only about 20 states would do that. But i don't get what they would teach about. It's not like it's a race, so their would only be a few pages dedicated to them. Because its not like it's been a battle that they've been fighting for 100+ years. Only within the past 40+ years. Before 1960 that was majorily frowned upon. I'm not routin for any specific side but fro the way I see it they have one hell of a battle to go through and probably a battle that will only win a few states here and there.

Agreed. It'll be a damn long time before it's implemented on a large scale, and people will make a big fuckin stink if/when it happens.

I think the big elements would be stuff like Stonewall and other significant milestones in the whole "battle for civil rights."

Now that is interesting isn't that the same state that wanted to ban same sex marriage

Yeah, but all of the funding, support, everything came from THE LDS Church in Utah. Prop 8 has been repealed since.

[Cicero]

Agreed. It'll be a damn long time before it's implemented on a large scale, and people will make a big fuckin stink if/when it happens.

I think the big elements would be stuff like Stonewall and other significant milestones in the whole "battle for civil rights."



Yeah, but all of the funding, support, everything came from THE LDS Church in Utah. Prop 8 has been repealed since.

Ya, but it's the uk just another name for England? If so, no offense, England is pretty small it's easy to gt away with all that where as America it's harder. Everyone who was born around the 1920-1935 will fight against pro gay choice because they were raised very strictly when my great grandparents came over to this country they instilled what they believe in to their children. But it's not like it's their fault because pro gays were hated across the world. Whether you believe it's right or wrong it's the fact. Back in the 1700s gays witches warlocks were burned alive. Which anyone now with some descensy will know that was wrong and extreme. Almost every religion out their (other than those peace religions) will try to fight it, they might not be public about it, but when it comes to the voting they will probably vote no. Especially the Mormans. Where I live, it's like a hard core Morman MIT Romney town haha

Oh and I agree with the other guy. The more they parade around saying we want equality we want to be treated normal the more it will make people mad. If you want to be treated normal you must act normal. As I said earlier, my cousin was gay and I never even knew. He didn't wear make up, he didn't parade around saying I'm gay love me! He didn't go around smacking his boyfriends butt or kissing him. He acted normal. Anyone who wants to be accepted can't be do not normal things. Especially when their trying to be accepted. If I were them I would lay low, and if people ask just say oh I'm gay. I know for me I don't hang around anyone who doesn't look or act normal. That's just me though, I have another cousin who turned out to be gay, and now he is somewhat dressing the part. Accept he's not wearing dresses, he paints his nails does red hair in the front and just acts gay. And I'm embarrassed to be around him, not cause hes gay but cause he's choosing to be abnormal. That's why I like the gays and bis on here (some of them) because they have normal looking pictures. And just because I've been on here I've lightened up on the whole subject. Ask me what I thought of the subject before I came on here and I would've said oh I hate them, god doesn't agree Witt that they are nothing but disgusting sinners. Now I'm like, well I like the normal ones, it's not the choice for me but I'm not going to dislike them for their choice. (not making it sound like this :D website has changed my life but it's really changed a few ideas I've had about different subjects, and I got to ask the questions I was most worried about which really helped my life a lot!)

[Gaybaby94]

In Australia we are still fighting for marriage rights but are being delayed by close-minded bigots and religious fanatics with positions of power (I.e Tony Abbott) Who can't seem to accept the fact that he is only delaying the inevitable...

Same thing here in America. It is sad that society can not accept us as part of them. I mean if they accept three ways and other stuff like that, why can they not accept homosexuality?

[Cicero]

Same thing here in America. It is sad that society can not accept us as part of them. I mean if they accept three ways and other stuff like that, why can they not accept homosexuality?

It's because the people who are representing the gays are doing it in not ok ways. They are trying to look different. That's the thing, if they looked like anyone else people would gladly accept them (or at least more than they are now). When I see men and women cross dressing it grosses me out. But when I see a gay couple looking normal is when I think I wish everyone was like that.

[Gaybaby94]

I see men and women cross dressing it grosses me out.

What is wrong with that? I cross dress sometimes.

[kenoloor]

It's because the people who are representing the gays are doing it in not ok ways. They are trying to look different. That's the thing, if they looked like anyone else people would gladly accept them (or at least more than they are now).

They do not represent the GSM community. You are making them a representation in your own head; what you perceive as representative of anything is completely out of everyone's control, except yours. If you think a street rapper who raps about sexually objectifying women and having lots of money, or shooting people is representative of the black community, that's your problem, not anybody else's. Are those individuals extreme? In both cases, yes. However, looking at the extreme end of a community is not a fair way to evaluate the entire community.

When I see men and women cross dressing it grosses me out. But when I see a gay couple looking normal is when I think I wish everyone was like that.

How is that any different than homophobes someone saying "when I see a gay couple it grosses me out"? For many individuals, cross dressing is a fundamental element of their identity, just like being homosexual, transgender, black, a musician, etc.

"When I see an interracial couple, it grosses me out. But when I see two whites together looking normal is when I wish everyone was like that."

[Cicero]

They do not represent the GSM community. You are making them a representation in your own head; what you perceive as representative of anything is completely out of everyone's control, except yours. If you think a street rapper who raps about sexually objectifying women and having lots of money, or shooting people is representative of the black community, that's your problem, not anybody else's. Are those individuals extreme? In both cases, yes. However, looking at the extreme end of a community is not a fair way to evaluate the entire community.



How is that any different than homophobes someone saying "when I see a gay couple it grosses me out"? For many individuals, cross dressing is a fundamental element of their identity, just like being homosexual, transgender, black, a musician, etc.

"When I see an interracial couple, it grosses me out. But when I see two whites together looking normal is when I wish everyone was like that."

That's judging a race. Gays arent a race, it's a way of living. I'm just saying, if their are gay parades out there saying "We want to be treated normal, we want equality", then they must act normal and dress normal. If they do those parades cross dressing no one will give them what they want. It's like that with many people. Why would someone who wants to be treated like anyone else and be treated normal not dress normal? It's like saying I want to be respected. Well, you're only going to get respect if you respect yourself.

Some of those gay groups out there are sabotaging themselves because when they cross dressing 99.9% of the normal people are probably thinking. "Get me as far away from this guy as possible."

I'm ok with gays, but I don't like the ones who want to be abnormal. But don't take it personally I don't like anyone who isn't normal.

[kenoloor]

That's judging a race.

No it's not. It's judging a community that shares a common identifier.

Gays arent a race, it's a way of living.

Are you suggesting that homosexuality is a choice?

I'm just saying, if their are gay parades out there saying "We want to be treated normal, we want equality", then they must act normal and dress normal. If they do those parades cross dressing no one will give them what they want.

1. Who defines normal? You?
2. You're proposing that people should just shut up and conform? Blend in to the woodwork?
3. Cross-dressing is another thing that needs to be accepted into society more, honestly.

It's like that with many people. Why would someone who wants to be treated like anyone else and be treated normal not dress normal? It's like saying I want to be respected. Well, you're only going to get respect if you respect yourself.

You have no idea how they respect themselves. They obviously respect themselves enough to have pride (hence Pride parades, etc.).

Some of those gay groups out there are sabotaging themselves because when they cross dressing 99.9% of the normal people are probably thinking. "Get me as far away from this guy as possible."

I'm going to quote myself again, because you seem to be incapable of reading what I've already posted. Maybe this time it'll work.

For many individuals, cross dressing is a fundamental element of their identity, just like being homosexual, transgender, black, a musician, etc.

You're advocating a world where people deny their identity and just fit in; removing individuality, essentially.

I'm ok with gays, but I don't like the ones who want to be abnormal. But don't take it personally I don't like anyone who isn't normal.

This argument is fundamentally no different than what the Nazis said. "If you don't fit within certain parameters, then fuck you."

[Cicero]

No it's not. It's judging a community that shares a common identifier.



Are you suggesting that homosexuality is a choice?



1. Who defines normal? You?
2. You're proposing that people should just shut up and conform? Blend in to the woodwork?
3. Cross-dressing is another thing that needs to be accepted into society more, honestly.



You have no idea how they respect themselves. They obviously respect themselves enough to have pride (hence Pride parades, etc.).



I'm going to quote myself again, because you seem to be incapable of reading what I've already posted. Maybe this time it'll work.



You're advocating a world where people deny their identity and just fit in; removing individuality, essentially.



This argument is fundamentally no different than what the Nazis said. "If you don't fit within certain parameters, then fuck you."

I believe it is a choice. Their have been lesbians and gays that are now straight. It's just hard to do. I wasn't saying gays don't respect themselves I was saying in general, people not just gays anyone gays, straights, Europeans anyone.

It's great to be an individual, but when you try to be weird it's just weird. I don't make up what's normal society does. If you live in San Francisco and 65% of the population their cross dresses, then cross dressing is normal. But most everywhere you go it's not normal. I just saying if they want to do that their sabotaging themselves.

If the nazis and hitler were to say "we want to kill all Jews, Christians and gays" no one would follow him. He slowly introduced the idea. That's what gays need to do, first they should provide a foundation of it bring normal. Then add in a few things that girls would wear (if their guys) but you can't just full on do it. Remember back in the 40s gays were killed by the nazis. And in America gays were looked down upon. It's only been 70+ years. They should do it slowly. When people are fighting against gays, it just proves their point that gays are weird, if some of the cross dress. Then people will go oh ya they are weird then they go against the gays. I'm just saying. Once society can look at a gay couple making out in the park and say "how cute" or whatever. Then they should express themselves. I'm not the only one who believes this most everyone would agree with me.

It's like saying. Why shouldn't everyone dress up as clowns. If you see a few clowns just walking around you might think wow their kinda weird (if their isn't a festival or anything like that going on).

If the US president starting making out with a guy and started to cross dress. Not only would he be mocked, but no one would respect him. But if that's how he felt and wanted to express himself it's ok right?

[Tay-tay]

So....wow. These fights always get really heated really fast. So I am going to put in my own little thoughts.

First of all, homosexuality is perceived differently by everyone. Some people like it, encourage it, accept it, or whatevor. Others hate it, discourage it, or unaccepting. And few just don't care. I for one am a little bothered by it, but that's because i grew up in a straight community where gay isn't really present. That's just the way I am.

Second of all, no matter what, it's not a good idea to force anything on anyone. Whether it's realigious, ethics, political, or whatevor, don't try to force it. I could sit here for hours trying to persuade you gays to think gays are bad and Mormons are right, but that would just make you guys hate me and fight back with your beliefs and we wouldn't get anywhere. Let's all be content with our own beliefs and our lives and let others do the same with their own lives. If you want to speak your thoughts, go ahead, but don't get upset when others don't like them. If you are to speak, you will be heard, and others will speak back.

And lastly, open-mindedness goes both ways. I've been told I'm not open minded because i don't like homosexuality. Doesn't that make you close minded when you tell someone else their close minded for not thinking the same way as you? Open minded means to have your own beliefs and accept that others will have different beliefs and to be okay with it. You don't have to accept their belifs, you just have to accept that they have different beliefs than you.

If i came off a bit preachy or bashy, i'm sorry. I just wanted to share my thoughts.

[kenoloor]

I believe it is a choice. Their have been lesbians and gays that are now straight. It's just hard to do. I wasn't saying gays don't respect themselves I was saying in general, people not just gays anyone gays, straights, Europeans anyone.

This is the only part I'm bothering to respond to.

Read this. Now. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1567146&postcount=38) I posted that in another thread where people were debating whether homosexuality is a choice. Thinking that homosexuality is such an outdated idea it's not even funny.

[Gaybaby94]

I believe it is a choice. Their have been lesbians and gays that are now straight. It's just hard to do. I wasn't saying gays don't respect themselves I was saying in general, people not just gays anyone gays, straights, Europeans anyone.

It is NOT a choice. Even if it was I would still be gay because I do indeed have feelings toward guys.

[Cicero]

It is NOT a choice. Even if it was I would still be gay because I do indeed have feelings toward guys.

It is a choice. You can change anything you want about yourself that's not physical. If you like guys, you can try to train yourself to like girls. If your an alcoholic you can train yourself not to drink. If you have a short temper you can train yourself to not have a short temper. I'm not saying that becoming straight is easy. It's something that's very hard, but it's possible. Just like for alcoholics, you can choose not to abuse alcohol its just that it's very hard.

[kenoloor]

It is a choice. You can change anything you want about yourself that's not physical. If you like guys, you can try to train yourself to like girls. If your an alcoholic you can train yourself not to drink. If you have a short temper you can train yourself to not have a short temper. I'm not saying that becoming straight is easy. It's something that's very hard, but it's possible. Just like for alcoholics, you can choose not to abuse alcohol its just that it's very hard.

Read this now. READ IT. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1567146&postcount=38) And when you're done reading that, come up with some evidence before you go spouting stupid and groundless claims.

[Cicero]

Read this now. READ IT. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1567146&postcount=38) And when you're done reading that, come up with some evidence before you go spouting stupid and groundless claims.

What's the gene that makes people gay? I have nothing against gays. But I believe it's a choice just like anything else. You believe what you want I believe what I want.

[kenoloor]

What's the gene that makes people gay? I have nothing against gays. But I believe it's a choice just like anything else. You believe what you want I believe what I want.

No specific gene has been discovered as of yet, however it is accepted by the American Medical Association that homosexuality is not a choice.

I've said it a motherfucking billion times before, and I'll say it again: believing in something without proof is stupid. I believe what I believe because I have evidence to support those beliefs, thus turning belief into knowledge. You cannot say such a thing about your belief, because there is no legitimate evidence to support your argument. Jesus fucking christ, you people.

[Donkey]

Teen Sexuality -> Ramblings of the Wise

It is a choice. You can change anything you want about yourself that's not physical. If you like guys, you can try to train yourself to like girls. If your an alcoholic you can train yourself not to drink. If you have a short temper you can train yourself to not have a short temper. I'm not saying that becoming straight is easy. It's something that's very hard, but it's possible. Just like for alcoholics, you can choose not to abuse alcohol its just that it's very hard.
It is likely that the gays/lesbians who "turned" straight did it to be accepted by society, and their true feelings remain. There are countless stories of people at those gay camps just continuing to have relationships with each other secretly. If you were gay, and you said it was a choice, then maybe I would respect your viewpoint. But as a gay person, I think I have more ground in saying it is not a choice.

I've said it a motherfucking billion times before, and I'll say it again: believing in something without proof is stupid.
Saying something over and over again doesn't make it right. People have beliefs because they make them comfortable, they have grown up with the idea or just because they want to. People also have different beliefs cause they have different life experience and ideas about the world. That's what makes the world diverse.

[Jess]

hmm well where I live I can't really tell if it's generally accepted. I hope it is. at my school, yes definitely it has been.

society in general, no, but aren't more of the younger generation accepting of homosexuals?

It is a choice. You can change anything you want about yourself that's not physical. If you like guys, you can try to train yourself to like girls. If your an alcoholic you can train yourself not to drink. If you have a short temper you can train yourself to not have a short temper. I'm not saying that becoming straight is easy. It's something that's very hard, but it's possible. Just like for alcoholics, you can choose not to abuse alcohol its just that it's very hard.

it's not a choice. why would homosexuals choose a lifestyle that is not accepted at all by many? if you're a boy and you're attracted to boys, you can't change that. if you're a girl and you're attracted to girls, you can't change that.

[Gaybaby94]

It is a choice. You can change anything you want about yourself that's not physical. If you like guys, you can try to train yourself to like girls. If your an alcoholic you can train yourself not to drink. If you have a short temper you can train yourself to not have a short temper. I'm not saying that becoming straight is easy. It's something that's very hard, but it's possible. Just like for alcoholics, you can choose not to abuse alcohol its just that it's very hard.

It is NOT a choice, it is a genetic thing. Like I said, even if it was, I don't want to change so society can accept me. I want them to accept me for who I am .

[Genghis Khan]

It's because the people who are representing the gays are doing it in not ok ways. They are trying to look different. That's the thing, if they looked like anyone else people would gladly accept them (or at least more than they are now). When I see men and women cross dressing it grosses me out. But when I see a gay couple looking normal is when I think I wish everyone was like that.

Hahahaha I love you. You're the coolest person.

[kenoloor]

Saying something over and over again doesn't make it right. People have beliefs because they make them comfortable, they have grown up with the idea or just because they want to. People also have different beliefs cause they have different life experience and ideas about the world. That's what makes the world diverse.

That doesn't make groundless beliefs any less irrational. If personal experience is what someone uses exclusively to form their ideology of beliefs, that is simply illogical. As individuals, what we experience is far too limited to draw a lucid conclusion from.

Diversity of beliefs is not what makes the world diverse; diversity of perspectives makes the world diverse. And having a different perspective is not the same as refuting conclusive evidence.

[Ender]

I think society is heading in that direction, but it will be an ongoing issue for years. And even as society has come to accept it, there will still be select groups against it.

[Donkey]

That doesn't make groundless beliefs any less irrational. If personal experience is what someone uses exclusively to form their ideology of beliefs, that is simply illogical. As individuals, what we experience is far too limited to draw a lucid conclusion from.
Welcome to humanity sunshine. It is just your upbringing/psyche that has let you take a more scientific and liberal viewpoint. Some people are not like that. And that's all your opinion, and immensely subjective. For some people, personal experience is everything and you have no right to say that they can't have their opinions just like I have no right to say you have no right to do something. That sentence was ironic and nonsensical yes, but you get the picture.

Diversity of beliefs is not what makes the world diverse; diversity of perspectives makes the world diverse. And having a different perspective is not the same as refuting conclusive evidence.
No evidence is conclusive; proof is conclusive and proof is as rare as gold dust. Even then it is a matter of opinion whether you believe it or not, you can't say that people refute conclusive evidence if it's not conclusive evidence to them. It is subjective. I defend homophobes and racists all the time, even though fundamentally I think their beliefs are unfounded and illogical. Everything is down to experience and it is my view that if we judge people for their own prejudices based on their life experience, that makes us prejudice too.

Besides, diversity of perspectives does not make the world diverse: perspectives are individualistic and cannot be shared. Sharing descriptions of your perspectives based on opinions and social communications with other people is what makes the world diverse, and if that is homophobia then so what

[Professional Russian]

I dont think society will ever except homosexuality. Theres one gay kid in my school he gets beat up ALOT

[kenoloor]

Welcome to humanity sunshine. It is just your upbringing/psyche that has let you take a more scientific and liberal viewpoint. Some people are not like that. And that's all your opinion, and immensely subjective. For some people, personal experience is everything and you have no right to say that they can't have their opinions just like I have no right to say you have no right to do something. That sentence was ironic and nonsensical yes, but you get the picture.

The problems arise when people get selective about when they are logical and when they aren't.

If I tell someone I have $100 dollars in my pocket, they will undoubtedly want proof to support such a claim. If I were to, instead of showing them the money, say, "well I believe it, so it must be true," people would say that I was being illogical. Someone has undoubtedly used this comparison before, maybe even I have. But as soon as I call someone's belief in God/the supernatural/homosexuality being a choice irrational, well all of a sudden, they're entitled to their anti-logic.

No evidence is conclusive; proof is conclusive and proof is as rare as gold dust. Even then it is a matter of opinion whether you believe it or not, you can't say that people refute conclusive evidence if it's not conclusive evidence to them. It is subjective. I defend homophobes and racists all the time, even though fundamentally I think their beliefs are unfounded and illogical. Everything is down to experience and it is my view that if we judge people for their own prejudices based on their life experience, that makes us prejudice too.

Well, as the lovely musical, Avenue Q, put it, everyone's a little bit racist.

Besides, diversity of perspectives does not make the world diverse: perspectives are individualistic and cannot be shared. Sharing descriptions of your perspectives based on opinions and social communications with other people is what makes the world diverse, and if that is homophobia then so what

Oh details. :P that's essentially what I was getting at.

[Cicero]

The problems arise when people get selective about when they are logical and when they aren't.

If I tell someone I have $100 dollars in my pocket, they will undoubtedly want proof to support such a claim. If I were to, instead of showing them the money, say, "well I believe it, so it must be true," people would say that I was being illogical. Someone has undoubtedly used this comparison before, maybe even I have. But as soon as I call someone's belief in God/the supernatural/homosexuality being a choice irrational, well all of a sudden, they're entitled to their anti-logic.



Well, as the lovely musical, Avenue Q, put it, everyone's a little bit racist.



Oh details. :P that's essentially what I was getting at.

I don't unlike gays. I like them. But I dislike the gays who want to cross dress. Someone's belief in god isnt a "choice irrational."

[kenoloor]

I don't unlike gays. I like them. But I dislike the gays who want to cross dress.

Please explain what you find to be so offensive about cross-dressing.

Someone's belief in god isnt a "choice irrational."

Don't get me started.

[Gaybaby94]

I don't unlike gays. I like them. But I dislike the gays who want to cross dress. Someone's belief in god isnt a "choice irrational."

So you dislike people like me. That's ignorant and bigoted. And believing in god or any other being is irrational because it's a muthafucken belief. There is no proof that it exists. If one wants to pray to the sky or whatever, go ahead nut the minute they base their political views on stuff that doesn't exist, then I will never respect you or your beliefs again.

[Professional Russian]

I don't unlike gays. I like them. But I dislike the gays who want to cross dress. Someone's belief in god isnt a "choice irrational."

Are you making fun of klinger.

http://i.imgur.com/tHQBQ.jpg

[Ender]

Are you making fun of klinger.

image (http://i.imgur.com/tHQBQ.jpg)

Clinger did it for a legit reason though.. haha.

[Cicero]

So you dislike people like me. That's ignorant and bigoted. And believing in god or any other being is irrational because it's a muthafucken belief. There is no proof that it exists. If one wants to pray to the sky or whatever, go ahead nut the minute they base their political views on stuff that doesn't exist, then I will never respect you or your beliefs again.

Actually theirs more proof in that then any other religion. They found part of Noah's Ark and they have the cloth in which Jesus was buried in (shroud of Turin)!:P which is in an Italian museum. They also have recorded evidence of many events that have happened. Like when king Harod went around killing all new borns so Jesus wouldn't have been born. And I don't think people who cross dress represent the gay community in a good way. When I say cross dress I mean, they talk feminine they wear girls clothing and they wear makeup. And their is over 1 BILLION CATHOLICS IN THE WORLD. Which means 1/6 people you meet is Catholic Christian. Because of people who cross dress. Most people think of all gays as people who like to look like girls when their guys and vise versa. I went to a private catholic school, and what we learned was how we can defend our faith with facts.

[Professional Russian]

Clinger did it for a legit reason though.. haha.

He just wanted that section 8

Actually theirs more proof in that then any other religion. They found part of Noah's Ark and they have the cloth in which Jesus was buried in (shroud of Turin)!:P which is in an Italian museum. They also have recorded evidence of many events that have happened. Like when king Harod went around killing all new borns so Jesus wouldn't have been born. And I don't think people who cross dress represent the gay community in a good way. When I say cross dress I mean, they talk feminine they wear girls clothing and they wear makeup. And their is over 1 BILLION CATHOLICS IN THE WORLD. Which means 1/6 people you meet is Catholic Christian. Because of people who cross dress. Most people think of all gays as people who like to look like girls when their guys and vise versa. I went to a private catholic school, and what we learned was how we can defend our faith with facts.


Technically its 1/7 since theres over 7 billion people in the world

[Ender]

He just wanted that section 8

Gotta love his persistance though.


But yeah, back on topic xD

[Jupiter]

Actually theirs more proof in that then any other religion. They found part of Noah's Ark and they have the cloth in which Jesus was buried in (shroud of Turin)!:P which is in an Italian museum. They also have recorded evidence of many events that have happened. Like when king Harod went around killing all new borns so Jesus wouldn't have been born. And I don't think people who cross dress represent the gay community in a good way. When I say cross dress I mean, they talk feminine they wear girls clothing and they wear makeup. And their is over 1 BILLION CATHOLICS IN THE WORLD. Which means 1/6 people you meet is Catholic Christian. Because of people who cross dress. Most people think of all gays as people who like to look like girls when their guys and vise versa. I went to a private catholic school, and what we learned was how we can defend our faith with facts.

You're really going to bring religion into this, where there are just about as many atheists on here as Christians, and most of the Christians are in the p101 section.

Yeah, so, why don't you love the world. Like the bible says. You are the kind of person who REALLY makes me embarrassed to be a Christian, shoving religion down people's throats.

My bests friend online- Agnostic
Second BFO- Athiest
Third- Jewish

All of them I met on here. Get out of your fucking shell.

[Donkey]

The problems arise when people get selective about when they are logical and when they aren't.

If I tell someone I have $100 dollars in my pocket, they will undoubtedly want proof to support such a claim. If I were to, instead of showing them the money, say, "well I believe it, so it must be true," people would say that I was being illogical. Someone has undoubtedly used this comparison before, maybe even I have. But as soon as I call someone's belief in God/the supernatural/homosexuality being a choice irrational, well all of a sudden, they're entitled to their anti-logic.

Well the difference is that if you say you have $100 in your pocket but you know you don't really, then there is no comparison to faith as people genuinely believe that there are higher powers. That is because of their upbringing, and it is not simply a lie that they are telling. They really believe it is true. They may have had individual religious experiences or have just had it told to them since they were very young.

Saying you have $100 dollars in your pocket when you do not believe it isn't even a related comparison to saying you believe in a higher power and you do believe it. People do not need to justify their faith, anyway. If you demand that from someone you are being unfair. As long as their beliefs do not harm others it is all OK

[kenoloor]

Well the difference is that if you say you have $100 in your pocket but you know you don't really, then there is no comparison to faith as people genuinely believe that there are higher powers. That is because of their upbringing, and it is not simply a lie that they are telling. They really believe it is true. They may have had individual religious experiences or have just had it told to them since they were very young.

Saying you have $100 dollars in your pocket when you do not believe it isn't even a related comparison to saying you believe in a higher power and you do believe it. People do not need to justify their faith, anyway. If you demand that from someone you are being unfair. As long as their beliefs do not harm others it is all OK

Fuck, I wasn't clear. The other is the believer; sorry, I misspoke in that last post. I'm saying that if I were to say I have $100 dollars, they would want proof. But if I say "just believe it," [-]nobody[/-] almost nobody would accept that as a logical deduction. Sorry about that.

[Cicero]

You're really going to bring religion into this, where there are just about as many atheists on here as Christians, and most of the Christians are in the p101 section.

Yeah, so, why don't you love the world. Like the bible says. You are the kind of person who REALLY makes me embarrassed to be a Christian, shoving religion down people's throats.

My bests friend online- Agnostic
Second BFO- Athiest
Third- Jewish

All of them I met on here. Get out of your fucking shell.

That other guy started it, by saying its not real...

I'm simply defending my faith.

[kenoloor]

That other guy started it, by saying its not real...

I'm simply defending my faith.

1. I'm not "that other guy." I have a name (Bradi), and I'm not a dude. :hippy:
2. That was irrelevant. I was using it as an example, and while I do think that belief in a religion is irrational, I was not bringing that into this debate. You completely missed my purpose for bringing that into the discussion; I was not asking for a religious debate. We already have too many of those shit threads around here anyway.
3. Are you in first grade? "He started it!!" Really.

[trooneh]

That other guy started it, by saying its not real...

I'm simply defending my faith.

By attacking the way others try to display their individuality? Sounds hypocritical.

[Jupiter]

That other guy started it, by saying its not real...

I'm simply defending my faith.

Are you in kindergarten? You are acting like my dad, who... was kicked out last night.

"I punched him because he started it!"

IGNORE IT.

Jesus speaks about hypocrates, right?

[Cicero]

1. I'm not "that other guy." I have a name (Bradi), and I'm not a dude. :hippy:
2. That was irrelevant. I was using it as an example, and while I do think that belief in a religion is irrational, I was not bringing that into this debate. You completely missed my purpose for bringing that into the discussion; I was not asking for a religious debate. We already have too many of those shit threads around here anyway.
3. Are you in first grade? "He started it!!" Really.

Not you the other person the liberal guy.

Are you in kindergarten? You are acting like my dad, who... was kicked out last night.

"I punched him because he started it!"

IGNORE IT.

Jesus speaks about hypocrates, right?

Ya. And...


Please don't double post; instead edit your first post. I've merged both of your posts together. -Jon/Rafiki

[Jupiter]

Ya. And...

Do as I say, not as I do.

That's what you are basically saying. Not wanting people to bash Christianity, nor change our religion, so you turn around and bash athiesm, and try to shove your religion down other's throats.

hm.

[kenoloor]

Do as I say, not as I do.

That's what you are basically saying. Not wanting people to bash Christianity, nor change our religion, so you turn around and bash athiesm, and try to shove your religion down other's throats.

hm.

He was hardly bashing atheism.

[Jupiter]

He was hardly bashing atheism.

Well, yeah. I was mostly trying to emphasize the shoving of religion.

[Cicero]

Do as I say, not as I do.

That's what you are basically saying. Not wanting people to bash Christianity, nor change our religion, so you turn around and bash athiesm, and try to shove your religion down other's throats.

hm.

1. Maybe you should actually open the book called the bible (unless it burns your hands) and get facts straight. How did I bash atheists?
2. I'm not close to a hypocrite. If you want to turn this into a religious topic then go ahead. I'm way more knowledgable about that topic.
3. I wasn't shoving it down anyone's throats, I was simply defending my faith. That liberal guy said something derogatory about Roman Catholicism and I was defending myself against what he had said.

[Gaybaby94]

Actually theirs more proof in that then any other religion. They found part of Noah's Ark and they have the cloth in which Jesus was buried in (shroud of Turin)!:P which is in an Italian museum. They also have recorded evidence of many events that have happened. Like when king Harod went around killing all new borns so Jesus wouldn't have been born. And I don't think people who cross dress represent the gay community in a good way. When I say cross dress I mean, they talk feminine they wear girls clothing and they wear makeup. And their is over 1 BILLION CATHOLICS IN THE WORLD. Which means 1/6 people you meet is Catholic Christian. Because of people who cross dress. Most people think of all gays as people who like to look like girls when their guys and vise versa. I went to a private catholic school, and what we learned was how we can defend our faith with facts.

Anybody can say that they have proof. It is scientific fact that god, Jesus, Allah, whatever does not exist. We have evolved over time into "intelligent" ( some less than others) beings. Now if you want to pray to the sky, whatever. Just don't use it as a platform saying that my lifestyle or beliefs is wrong.

That other guy started it, by saying its not real...

I'm simply defending my faith.

1. I'm not "that other guy." I have a name (Bradi), and I'm not a dude. :hippy:

Are you in first grade? "He started it!!" Really.

Not you the other person the liberal guy.


He was referencing to me.

[Blind bat]

Anybody can say that they have proof. It is scientific fact that god, Jesus, Allah, whatever does not exist. We have evolved over time into "intelligent" ( some less than others) beings. Now if you want to pray to the sky, whatever. Just don't use it as a platform saying that my lifestyle or beliefs is wrong.







He was referencing to me.

To me it sounds like he was just saying, if the gay community is fighting so hard to have equality maybe they should first try not to be different to others. Which I agree.

Why is the gay community trying so hard to be thought of as normal, when they aren't dressing or acting normal.

And God isn't just a bunch of nonsense it's a belief in a higher power, and theirs nothing wrong with that. I think it's better to believe in something rather than believe in nothing. Believing in something gives purpose to someone's life, other than just thinking "well enjoy this time on earth cause once I die I'll just be in the ground."

[trooneh]

1. Maybe you should actually open the book called the bible (unless it burns your hands) and get facts straight. How did I bash atheists?

Maybe the bible was written by humans and therefore is not the ultimate source on all knowledge.
2. I'm not close to a hypocrite. If you want to turn this into a religious topic then go ahead. I'm way more knowledgable about that topic.
Do you accept people's right to express themselves in any way they see fit, whether that includes crossdressing or dressing flamboyantly? If not, and you then demand we respect your religious convictions, then I consider you a hypocrite.

3. I wasn't shoving it down anyone's throats, I was simply defending my faith. That liberal guy said something derogatory about Roman Catholicism and I was defending myself against what he had said.
We're also defending our rights to express ourselves in any way we want.

[StoppingTime]

1. Maybe you should actually open the book called the bible (unless it burns your hands) and get facts straight. How did I bash atheists?

Not everyone has to follow a religion.
I am Jewish, and sure, the Bible condemns homosexuality. Does that mean I have no respect for those people? No. Does that mean I think negatively about them in any way? Absolutely no.


2. I'm not close to a hypocrite. If you want to turn this into a religious topic then go ahead. I'm way more knowledgable about that topic.


I can just about guarantee that you are not.

[Blind bat]

Not everyone has to follow a religion.
I am Jewish, and sure, the Bible condemns homosexuality. Does that mean I have no respect for those people? No. Does that mean I think negatively about them in any way? Absolutely no.



I can just about guarantee that you are not.

Maybe you should debate instead of criticize balboa. And that question wasn't even pointed towards you. It sounds like balboa has said repeatedly he likes gays. So he hasn't even condemned or thinks negative about them. He was just saying that he didnt like people cross dressing. That's not wrong, he said his opinion so debate his opinion don't critize his way of thinking. If you were to probably be respectful he might Change his opinion, but I know that if I were him I'd think worst of cross dressing people, especially cause their showing him, that not only do they dress "unique" but their complete douchebags.

[Amnesiac]

That's judging a race. Gays arent a race, it's a way of living. I'm just saying, if their are gay parades out there saying "We want to be treated normal, we want equality", then they must act normal and dress normal. If they do those parades cross dressing no one will give them what they want. It's like that with many people. Why would someone who wants to be treated like anyone else and be treated normal not dress normal? It's like saying I want to be respected. Well, you're only going to get respect if you respect yourself.

Some of those gay groups out there are sabotaging themselves because when they cross dressing 99.9% of the normal people are probably thinking. "Get me as far away from this guy as possible."

I'm ok with gays, but I don't like the ones who want to be abnormal. But don't take it personally I don't like anyone who isn't normal.

I've never understood why a concept like conformity even exists in a supposedly free society such as the United States. Isn't one of the founding concepts of this nation that the individual should have the ability to enjoy his/her life the way they see fit? Liberty isn't something that can only be extended to those that are "normal". You cannot have a free society when that very society restricts the freedoms of entire groups of people.

Sure, being gay is not like being black, or Asian. However, it's more than a "lifestyle choice". Even if it was hypothetically a "lifestyle choice," why would that matter? If someone wants to be "weird," or as you put it, "abnormal," who cares? The fact that you are promoting discrimination against people who are "abnormal" goes against the very fundamentals of American society. 50 years ago, it was people of different color who were considered the very same thing – "abnormal," and therefore of a lower class.

"Respect" is something that should never be dealt out based on one's lifestyle, but rather, whether or not they are competent and a polite individual. People need to stop respecting people based on their outdated and arbitrary concepts of what is "acceptable," but rather whether or not the people they're addressing are dicks or not. The LGBT community has been fighting for equality under law since the 1960s, and there is absolutely no reason to ignore their valid complaints. Doing so is akin to supporting a society where only people who act "normal" have the right to enjoy life.

[Genghis Khan]

i think cross dressing is immoral because hey what take that blouse off you have excessive hair and hanging genitals that's just sick dude

[StoppingTime]

Maybe you should debate instead of criticize balboa.

I was not criticizing him. I was stating points related to his questions.


And that question wasn't even pointed towards you.


Does it matter?


It sounds like balboa has said repeatedly he likes gays.


I did not say otherwise.


He was just saying that he didnt like people cross dressing. That's not wrong, he said his opinion so debate his opinion don't critize his way of thinking.


That isn't wrong in your opinion. I was debating his opinion.
Yes, I should have been more specific about cross dressing, but I think he'll get it.


If you were to probably be respectful he might Change his opinion, but I know that if I were him I'd think worst of cross dressing people, especially cause their showing him, that not only do they dress "unique" but their complete douchebags.

No, religious people usually do not (I didn't say always) change their opinions if something is written in the Bible.
I am religious, and it is true, I don't believe everything an atheist says against my religion. I believe what I think is right.

[Donkey]

Just as a notice, Blind bat was a duplicate account of Rocky Balboa II

[Vonn]

The LGBT community has been fighting for equality under law since the 1960s, and there is absolutely no reason to ignore their valid complaints. Doing so is akin to supporting a society where only people who act "normal" have the right to enjoy life.

That was my favorite part to read. You must write fascinating essays in school.

i think cross dressing is immoral because hey what take that blouse off you have excessive hair and hanging genitals that's just sick dude

Totally. Cross-dressers should be shot on sight. (http://www.cracked.com/article_18467_the-6-biggest-badasses-who-lived-as-opposite-sex.html)

I mean just look at this sick motherfucker.

http://images.wikia.com/ssb/images/f/f5/Sheikartwork.jpg

God, s/he disgusts me.

[antiabort]

Just as a notice, Blind bat was a duplicate account of Rocky Balboa II


LOL! pwned

[dark_soul777]

Do you think society in general has accepted it? No, although in some regions more than others.
Have they accepted it where you live? No. I live near a small country town in the middle of nowhere (I hate it), and people literally get bashed for being any different, let alone having a different sexuality (The ultimate heresy in most people in my town's eyes).

Have they accepted it in your school? There is not a single openly gay person at our pathetic attempt at a school, if there was, they wouldn't last long , I got bullied and beaten for years for being "gay", and I'm straight. :(

[Professional Russian]

Just as a notice, Blind bat was a duplicate account of Rocky Balboa II

Well he got owned.

LMAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[beplubber24]

I say whatever floats your boat, I really don't care.