Infinite Life

[Sporadica]

So there are some scientific theories as to being able to literally just copy a "file" which is your frontal lobe, basically what makes you unique and copy it into a new younger body.

Couple Questions:
Do you think it's right to be able to do this (to the highest bidder of coarse) and not die?
Also if it were to happen what would happen to RRSP's and Pension plan? Would an old man collect it in his 20 year old new body or would he have to restart again basically equiped with higher knowledge?


In my opinion Ithink it would turn into gattica where the rich have all the time in the world to learn EVERYTHING and they eventually do and eventually there is a new class of discrimination.

[DoctorNewbie]

Well, first, we'd have to figure out how to make bodies with totally blank minds. Yep, that's right, make them.

Say you had the body. The original inhabitant of that body hates chocolate. Cannot stand it. He'd rather die than eat chocolate. Well, they are chosen to become the body of a super-rich-I-have-a-bajillion-bazillion-umpteenth-gaphilion-dollars-more-than-you guy. This super-rich-I-have-a-bajillion-bazillion-umpteenth-gaphilion-dollars-more-than-you guy fucking loves chocolate. He spends $9001 bajillion on it in a day. So, he gets the carbon copy, and you have 2 people in the same body. What happens. Does the person love chocolate? Does the mind implode? I think it would be different in each case, so we'd just have to create the shell.

My 2 cents.


And I got to use made-up numbers.

[Syvelocin]

I don't like the idea that the rich could do it and the poor would have to die. I'd imagine this could lead to a rather unstable economy and the rich would forever remain at the top because they'd never "die" and so it would be, instead of rich people owning the world for a specific amount of time, it would be the same rich people owning the world forever. We also have the issue that we'd overpopulate way faster than we are right now of course. I don't know the solution to that, but I do have to say longer lives are appealing, as long as you have a younger body.

[Magus]

I don't like the idea that the rich could do it and the poor would have to die. I'd imagine this could lead to a rather unstable economy and the rich would forever remain at the top because they'd never "die" and so it would be, instead of rich people owning the world for a specific amount of time, it would be the same rich people owning the world forever. We also have the issue that we'd overpopulate way faster than we are right now of course. I don't know the solution to that, but I do have to say longer lives are appealing, as long as you have a younger body.Welcome to the real world.(Not Matrix reference) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk)

That's how the current world works. The rich gets the best medical treatments, while the poor suffer and die.

[TheMatrix]

Although a very interesting idea, it would put the rich at the top. And besides, it's just prolonging the inevitable. Eventually, you will die, albeit because the transfer didn't quite work out, or there was some other disease that eventually killed you.

Welcome to the real world.(Not Matrix reference) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk)
Yes Matrix reference :P

[Magus]

Although a very interesting idea, it would put the rich at the top. And besides, it's just prolonging the inevitable. Eventually, you will die, albeit because the transfer didn't quite work out, or there was some other disease that eventually killed you.

If there is a world with such technology to transfer the collective memory of a person to another body, then there is bound to be technology that would annihilate anything that'd kills you(i.e diseases and disorders).

But there is a problem. In a transhumanist society, there are no socio-economical levels for individuals to be in. Everyone can prolong their life, if they wanted it to.

[Amaryllis]

A copy of a file is not the original file. A copy of you is not you. Sure, the "younger you" would have the same memories, survival skills, personality, knowledge, wisdom etc. etc. but you would still have died.

But let's say this were possible - forget that it isn't actually you. The world would overpopulate unless many of the poor died to make up for it. This would be a cause for concern and human rights activists should and would most likely rise against it. Then again, this happens in modern times as well. Much of the population in first world countries have more than enough and the poorer nations have less than enough.

As for the pension plan and other related things, of course the copy in the 20 year old body shouldn't be listed as a dependant citizen or be entitled to the same rights as a retired person without a fresh body! Reason being s/he is more than able to work. If you're going to live forever, you should be made to work forever. Why should the rest of the population support you for the rest of eternity compared to the 50 years of your life? Taxes would skyrocket! Assuming a decent amount of people will be given an "infinite" lifespan.

Another question: How on earth do you plan to get the younger body? Use that over another? A clone? Someone who wants to die, anyway? Infinite life raises many moral issues, as you can see.

We are not made to live forever. We aren't made to never change. Everyone must die one day. And unless you are to find a new, liveable planet or create one - there will be a definite rise is living expanses and greater concerns for overpopulation.

@Faris and Thomas
No, they will not die as long as they have the money available. I'd imagine you wouldn't transfer the entire frontal lobe of a person into that of another body - most likely, were it to happen, it'd be more like a "download." Perhaps imitate the neurotransmitters, chemicals, neurological connections, cells, muscles and nerves in your brain. Or whatever it may be.

So all you'd have to do is store that somewhere, update it frequently and were you to die, the copy would survive so you'd just "insert" that into a new host. How original that copy is and how human it is is debatable.

[Sporadica]

Good replies guys. Another thing that could eventually kill someone is a well placed bullet to the head. But in the event of destruction of the brain if the frontal lobe was still intact you may be able to recover memories. Although probably not because when you die all nuerons stop firing and all memories are neurons fired via chemical reactions.

[Donkey]

I think the only way of letting your consciousness actually continue would be a full brain transplant - medical science has a while to go for that... but yeah, just making a copy will not be the same actual consciousness I don't think. Cause think if you created a copy and the original also was alive at the same time, you would have two of the same consciousnesses running parallel to each other which means that they must somehow be separate. Not really living forever then.

But then it is not a good idea. If humans were truly intelligent creatures, we would know when to stop playing with nature. and this is the cut off point

[Magus]

I think the only way of letting your consciousness actually continue would be a full brain transplant - medical science has a while to go for that... but yeah, just making a copy will not be the same actual consciousness I don't think. Cause think if you created a copy and the original also was alive at the same time, you would have two of the same consciousnesses running parallel to each other which means that they must somehow be separate. Not really living forever then.

But then it is not a good idea. If humans were truly intelligent creatures, we would know when to stop playing with nature. and this is the cut off pointThere is a same problem with space teleportation.

In most teleportation methods, the particles are disassembled and reassembled some place else. The memories and what not are the same, but is the person really the same? Get me?

[Jupiter]

I don't think I'd want to live forever.

[Donkey]

I don't think I'd want to live forever.
I would. You'd get very used to the possibility of living forever and it wouldn't be so daunting anymore

[kenoloor]

I would. You'd get very used to the possibility of living forever and it wouldn't be so daunting anymore

I think living forever would be obscenely horrible, especially if others around you don't live forever. Because you'd have eternity to become wise and mature, but then others would still be stupid and shallow. Or, on the flip side, if others did live forever, you'd have to put up with their shit for eternity. Living forever would be more of a curse than a blessing in my opinion. I don't see why anyone would want to never die.

If you lived forever, things would stop being exciting after awhile. You'd have seen enough that you'd just be plodding through life monotonously, and nothing would be thrilling or new to you. Think how boring that would be.

[Donkey]

I think living forever would be obscenely horrible, especially if others around you don't live forever. Because you'd have eternity to become wise and mature, but then others would still be stupid and shallow. Or, on the flip side, if others did live forever, you'd have to put up with their shit for eternity. Living forever would be more of a curse than a blessing in my opinion. I don't see why anyone would want to never die.

If you lived forever, things would stop being exciting after awhile. You'd have seen enough that you'd just be plodding through life monotonously, and nothing would be thrilling or new to you. Think how boring that would be.
Don't worry, I've thought about that argument. It is indeed the most common and one of the most regarded; yet I find it quite illogical.

The human brain adapts to everything. It will not spend billions of years being bored out of its mind - it will find new things; it will learn to enjoy things it thought it couldn't and it will be satisfied if the time is given for it to do so. And with infinite time, that possibility is definitely there.

In order to truly consider what an immortal consciousness would be like to an experience, we must take our thought streams out of what we are used to (a moral being) and really empathise with that it would be like to live forever. Amazing, is the answer. For me, at least.

[huginnmuninn]

my initial problem with this theory is that it would probably be easier to rejuvinate the body and make it young than to transfer the mind into a younger body. plus even if we were to transfer our minds it would be pointless to think we would live forever since our sun will eventually die and then everything on earth will die.

aside from that i agree with rafiki. although yes we would probably initially grieve over our loved ones deaths and we would probably never forget them but our minds would adapt and we would move on. and if we did start to forget things like people what would be the point of living forever since we would have to learn everything again and again to achieve our limitless life

[Syvelocin]

I don't think that anyone would want to live forever anyway...

Oh, I would. As long as I didn't have to be insanely old and everyone around me lived forever as well, I'd actually take it. I'd probably kill myself eventually though. But I'd certainly take a longer life than I get.