Prayer

[Magus]

That's just scientific lies, healings from Jesus aren't delusions, maybe you can explain how people in wheelchairs can walk again, have they always been able to walk?
It's called rehabilitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_therapy). People with severed hands, had their hands sewed back and started to use them normally. Is that a miracle? Yes. It's called the miracle of Medical Science. No Lawd Jesus involved.

And Scientific Lies? The fuck is that?


Healing in Hinduism, Islam..
Their healing is not from good sources, it's from the devil.
Can you prove that the Devil heals people? Can you prove the devil itself exist? If he exists, that is.

[Efflorescence]

Yet you're debating it...

Uh maybe.....cause I don't understand? xD

An atheist believing in ghosts contradicts the fundamental reason they are atheist. The reason people don't believe in God is because there is no evidence to support God's existence. Just as there is no evidence to support ghosts' existence, or Santa's.


Well sorry to break this to you pal, but there are atheists who believe in ghosts, aliens, love at first sight etc, etc. and it makes sense actually because they are all different.

When you look at it critically, God and Santa are the same person. They are both men who you ask to give you shit, they both have fairy tales surrounding them, and they both have zero evidence to prove their existence.


So you also kind of have it 'against' agnostics(someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God) cause they are agnostic to God but they're not agnostic to Santa.

There are few people who believe in either everything or nothing.
So by your logic, if I believe in God I have to believe in Santa, unicorns, ghosts, aliens, auras around people and every Tom, Harry and freakin Dick that people make up.....etc.

And by your logic, if I'm an atheist I cannot believe in ghosts, aliens, Loch Ness monster and all others basically.

No.


Yes.:)

Except a whole lot of time and energy.

If you don't want to pray, don't, it's not like I'm forcing you. But saying it wastes time and energy is lol. I think we should promote prayer as exercise now cause uh 'it wastes energy'.

Healing in Hinduism, Islam..
Their healing is not from good sources, it's from the devil.

Loooooooollllllllll.....Muslims believe in the same God as Christians ha ha......and Christianity teaches that one should respect the religions of others.....I love a troll now and then.

[jonte95]

It's called rehabilitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_therapy). People with severed hands, had their hands sewed back and started to use them normally. Is that a miracle? Yes. It's called the miracle of Medical Science. No Lawd Jesus involved.

And Scientific Lies? The fuck is that?


Can you prove that the Devil heals people? Can you prove the devil itself exist? If he exists, that is.

the devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist


Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8pLUMDVRc&feature=related


2 Thessalonians 2:7-9- "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

Matthew 24:24- "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Revelation 13:13- "And he (the False Prophet) doeth great wonders so that he maketh fire to come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had the power to do in the sight of the Beast sayign to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the Beast which had the wound by a sword and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the Beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Revelation 19:20- "And the Beast was taken with him the False Prophet that wrought miracles before him and which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped the image. These both were cast alive into a lake burning with brimstone."

Source: http://fundamentalbaptistchristian.blogspot.com/2011/03/surprise-satan-can-also-do-miracles.html

[Magus]

So you also kind of have it 'against' agnostics(someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God) cause they are agnostic to God but they're not agnostic to Santa.
Neither believes nor disbelieves? How is that possible? I think you got the wrong idea of agnosticism.

If you don't want to pray, don't, it's not like i'm forcing you. But saying it wastes time and energy is lol. I think we should promote prayer as exercise now cause uh 'it wastes energy'.Energy that could have been spent on studying, researching, helping other, doing creative things and etc., instead on something that's clearly not working.

the devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist
Really? That's intriguing.

Source: http://fundamentalbaptistchristian.blogspot.com/2011/03/surprise-satan-can-also-do-miracles.html
Fundamental Baptist Christian.

Guys, we are dealing with a professional troll. Probably a Ph.D'er.

Please don't double-post. ~Thomas

[Efflorescence]

Neither believes nor disbelieves? How is that possible? I think you got the wrong idea of agnosticism.


It could be, but my point was that they think that the existence or non existence of God is not knowledgeable so yes it is possible. My point was that these people are not agnostic to Santa but they are agnostic to God.

Energy that could have been spent on studying, researching, helping other, doing creative things and etc., instead on something that's clearly not working.

Oh plss, look I don't pray very often it's true, but what you're saying is kinda absurd. You can pray while taking a pee, while washing the floor, while helping others. I don't think that the reason why people don't help others is because they spend time praying instead. So try to be a bit reasonable.

[Maxxie]

I think I must applaud you, Jonte.

You are professional troll.

[jonte95]

Really? That's intriguing.


Fundamental Baptist Christian.

Guys, we are dealing with a professional troll. Probably a Ph.D'er.

I just googled "the devil can also do miracles" and it came up as the 2nd top result.

I wanted to find those scriptures, I didn't read the whole page, I just gave you the link in-case you wanted to read more.

I don't even know what fundamental means.

[Maxxie]

I just googled "the devil can also do miracles" and it came up as the 2nd top result.

I wanted to find those scriptures, I didn't read the whole page, I just gave you the link in-case you wanted to read more.

I don't even know what fundamental means.

I take back my professional troll statement.

You're just a dumbass.

[Jean Poutine]

I take back my professional troll statement.

You're just a dumbass.

And this shall be your downfall.

[jonte95]

And this shall be your downfall.

What do you mean?

[Azunite]

What do you mean?

It means "Arrivederci Abstergo"

[StoppingTime]

What do you mean?

Everyone knows that if you do a 10 second Google search, it proved nothing, especially if it is from a bias website.


Scientific proof that the devil exists, can you show me?

(not from the bible by the way)

[Jess]

That's just scientific lies, healings from Jesus aren't delusions, maybe you can explain how people in wheelchairs can walk again, have they always been able to walk?

Healing in Hinduism, Islam..
Their healing is not from good sources, it's from the devil.

ever heard of medical science?

PROVE THAT JESUS DID IT

and no using bias websitse, videos, or anything from the Bible

did he just "appear" and freaking did the healing?

[Magus]

Oh plss, look I don't pray very often it's true, but what you're saying is kinda absurd. You can pray while taking a pee, while washing the floor, while helping others. I don't think that the reason why people don't help others is because they spend time praying instead. So try to be a bit reasonable.I guess you are mixing up prayer with supplication.

And this shall be your downfall.
lulz

Everyone knows that if you do a 10 second Google search, it proved nothing, especially if it is from a bias website.
A Fundamental website, nonetheless

Scientific proof that the devil exists, can you show me?

(not from the bible by the way)
What I really wanted to say. I need a tangible, testable proof of the devil. But he cannot. I guess. Devil paves way for God.

I always say to my Muslim friends this: Want me to believe the unreachable Allah? Give me Djinnis.

[jonte95]

Everyone knows that if you do a 10 second Google search, it proved nothing, especially if it is from a bias website.


Scientific proof that the devil exists, can you show me?

(not from the bible by the way)

How about all the evilness in the world?

Have you watched this? It's interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjmFm8PIz8M&list=FLpwJ0XDJC2cMUod3FJoA0Aw&index=8&feature=plpp_video

[Maxxie]

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/12061/12350670.jpg

[Jess]

prove that all the evilness in the world is from the devil -_-

[Maxxie]

prove that all the evilness in the world is from the devil -_-

The only place a devil figure exists is in religion.

[jonte95]

prove that all the evilness in the world is from the devil -_-

I can't.

[Jean Poutine]

image (http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/12061/12350670.jpg)

I resent that.

[backtobackawesome]

i agree wit jonte 100% i prayed 4 a coke nd den i went to the store nd boouhgt it this is proof that prayers come true

[Sugaree]

I can't.

So don't make claims that you can't back up.

i agree wit jonte 100% i prayed 4 a coke nd den i went to the store nd boouhgt it this is proof that prayers come true

^This sums up the thread pretty well.

[anonymous53]

Hi,

Why do you say prayers can't heal a person? Some/one of you said so in the locked thread "Christ for Atheists.

How do we know medicines can take away headache?
Maybe they just make us think we don't feel any pain?

If there's a way to proove that medication can cure headache,
with like, watching brain activity or something (before and after medicine).

And same method with before and after FAITHFUL prayer.



Alright, think back to let's say, the Dark Ages with the Bubonic plague. This is when the catholic church held the most power. People were spiritual yet they were still dying off in mass numbers. Don't you think they prayed for help?

[Jess]

I can't.

exactly. so evilness doesn't come from the Devil.

i agree wit jonte 100% i prayed 4 a coke nd den i went to the store nd boouhgt it this is proof that prayers come true

+1

[Amnesiac]

I don't see why this is still going on. Obviously, the OP cannot debate the topic. He continues to blatantly post obscenely biased sources as "scientific" "evidence" of the effects of prayer. He and other users in this thread have used personal testimony as "evidence" a ridiculous number of times. No goals will be achieved by continuing this thread. Nobody's valid questions will be answered, and no minds will be changed.

This thread is the perfect example of how religion corrupts minds. The OP has unknowingly shown how religion can come up with a countless number of ways to defend itself from criticism by making up excuses out of thin air. How does it do this? Well, as the OP has showed quite well, anything can be submitted as "evidence" and there are absolutely no standards (to the religious members in this thread) concerning what is a reliable source and what isn't. In addition to that, absurd things like "the Devil is trying to trick you" and "I can't prove it BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH!" keep coming up.

This OP and those who have argued on his behalf have absolutely failed to make any sort of valid argument in this thread. I'm actually offended by how insulting this thread is to the art of debate – it makes a mockery of it.

[Magus]

I can't.

The splendor of the mighty dead.

[Bmatlman]

there is alot of scientific proof out there. one of the major ones is the hundreds of profisses foretold in the bible that came true. the odds of all those comeing true is1to 1hundred million million million. also how did we come from a giant exsplosion. thats like saying an Iphone will form itself out of a pile of metal an silicon without any outside influence.

[deadpie]

there is alot of scientific proof out there. one of the major ones is the hundreds of profisses foretold in the bible that came true. the odds of all those comeing true is1to 1hundred million million million. also how did we come from a giant exsplosion. thats like saying an Iphone will form itself out of a pile of metal an silicon without any outside influence.

Really if you can't spell explosion correctly or know that it's entitled the Big Bang theory, that should just prove you don't know what you're talking about and it's way beyond your comprehension.

Also Jonte95 you lost the debate on about page four because there's tons of stuff I've said towards you that you decided not to quote, so I'm guessing it was too challenging/confrontational. You don't have to keep posting in this thread anymore. Just start up a new debate now.

Also pull up that statistic of "1 to 1hundred million million million".

There's an equal amount of so called "proof" for every bullshit religion out there and there's just as much proof on the scientific side of things. Religion is about faith, NOT using science, proof and logic. Faith has nothing to do with science, proof and logic. That's not what it's meant to be used as, which means it can't be completely relied on for everything. This is why we don't have rapists marry the people they rape, because we have some common sense.

I mean you really just need to break down every little chapter of The Bible down slowly, really pay attention to what's going on and realize it makes no fucking sense whatsoever. The only reason it might is because it was either banged into your head when you're young, your in fear of death or hell or both so you use religion as the scapegoat answer to your issues, or your crazy. Don't worry, we're all crazy though.

[Magus]

there is alot of scientific proof out there. one of the major ones is the hundreds of profisses foretold in the bible that came true. the odds of all those comeing true is1to 1hundred million million million.

So did Muhammad (http://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/muslim-signs-of-the-end-times-minor/), Prophet of Islam. Does that make Islam/Quran/Mohammad right? And how is a prophecy is a scientific proof? Can you tell us at least one of those prophecies that came true?

What's wrong with the fundie kids these days?
also how did we come from a giant exsplosion. thats like saying an Iphone will form itself out of a pile of metal an silicon without any outside influence.
The Watch (http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/nhmag.html)maker argument has been refuted over millions of times. No need to repeat ourselves again and again.

Also, we didn't came from a giant explosion(unless you are referring to a supernova, then yes).

The stars died for us.

[TheMatrix]

You guys are still at it? Looks like I didn't miss much :rolleyes:

Can I ask you a favour, OP? I have this irritating cold, and I'd like it to stop.
If you could pray for me that it goes away within the next 24 hours, then that'd be great. Thanks :)

I'm intrigued.

[Bmatlman]

ok for one thing i have a higher comprehention level then you could every dream of. i am a member of MENSA. and some of the modern day prophecy is that isrial would become a country once again. that russia would become a military super power. that the temple would be rebuilt. i that the world would resort to a single currency ( hasnt happened yet but is the best way to get out of economic crisis) also my odds were a bit off ( did by memory from lesson i was half asleep for a few years ago) but the odds of

all the prophecy obout jesus christ coming true is 1 in 100 trillion. that is for eight prophecy of which all came true. here is the page http://home.surewest.net/dfrench/evidence/prophecy.html and i dont care if you think its biased. read it and try to comprehend it.

P.S. I'm doing this on a psp so i have a word limit.

Please don't double post. The PSP does let you post more characters if you try, js. ~Thomas

[Magus]

ok for one thing i have a higher comprehention level then you could every dream of.Whatever this is. But I bet I have a higher comprehension level than you could ever dream of.

i am a member of MENSA.
I am a member of the B.A.L.U.C.H

and some of the modern day prophecy is that isrial would become a country once again.Predictable prophecy. Since Jews always want their land back.

that russia would become a military super power.
????????????????

that the temple would be rebuilt.
What?

i that the world would resort to a single currency ( hasnt happened yet but is the best way to get out of economic crisis)
Best way to get out of economic crisis? Says who?


also my odds were a bit off ( did by memory from lesson i was half asleep for a few years ago) but the odds of all the prophecy obout jesus christ coming true is 1 in 100 trillion. that is for eight prophecy of which all came true. here is the page http://home.surewest.net/dfrench/evidence/prophecy.html and i dont care if you think its biased. read it and try to comprehend it.

Yeah, I can't debate about a book that has been written, rewritten, with many omission and additions and rewritten again over a course of few thousands of years.

So, I cannot use it as a reliable source for the "prophecy" you are speaking about it.

Muhammad, Prophet of Islam, did a similar kinds of prophecy.

"-The Romans have been vanquished,
-In the lowest part of the land; and after their vanquishing they shall be the victors,
-In a few years… Chapter30: verse2, 3 and 4"

Muhammad discovered the lowest land: The dead sea. And the Romans indeed became victors over the Persians soon after.

So, Muhammad founded a miracle. So, that makes him automatically correct, right?

[Maxxie]

ok for one thing i have a higher comprehention level then you could every dream of. i am a member of MENSA. and some of the modern day prophecy is that isrial would become a country once again. that russia would become a military super power. that the temple would be rebuilt. i that the world would resort to a single currency ( hasnt happened yet but is the best way to get out of economic crisis) also my odds were a bit off ( did by memory from lesson i was half asleep for a few years ago) but the odds of

all the prophecy obout jesus christ coming true is 1 in 100 trillion. that is for eight prophecy of which all came true. here is the page http://home.surewest.net/dfrench/evidence/prophecy.html and i dont care if you think its biased. read it and try to comprehend it.

P.S. I'm doing this on a psp so i have a word limit.

Please don't double post. The PSP does let you post more characters if you try, js. ~Thomas

If you really were a part of MENSA, I think you'd use a bit better grammar. And are we supposed to take that MENSA thing on faith? Granted, it IS more believable than what you're trying to argue.

[Magus]

If you really were a part of MENSA, I think you'd use a bit better grammar. And are we supposed to take that MENSA thing on faith? Granted, it IS more believable than what you're trying to argue.It's a fail logic: Since he is a part of Mensa, that would make him true(or truer or more believable). So what he says is true just because he is a part of the Mensa. Genius, really.

I have a hard time believing that. A Mensa person of that age would have a good knowledge on debate methodologies.

[Bmatlman]

[QUOTE=Electric Nomad;1538363]
Yeah, I can't debate about a book that has been written, rewritten, with many omission and additions and rewritten again over a course of few thousands of years. [QUOTE]

there is a grea thing called the dead sea scrolls which date back to before jesus. they say the same exact thing as the bible does today.

also good grammer and spelling arnt the only thing that get you into MENSA. you need to have an IQ of atleast 140. mines 157.

[Jess]

there is alot of scientific proof out there. one of the major ones is the hundreds of profisses foretold in the bible that came true. the odds of all those comeing true is1to 1hundred million million million. also how did we come from a giant exsplosion. thats like saying an Iphone will form itself out of a pile of metal an silicon without any outside influence.

sure. scientific proof. pfft. I rather believe there was a giant explosion than some god creating everything (and where did the god come from?)

[Bmatlman]

how could we come from some Big Bang? There are alot of holes in that theory. There is no way for the amino acids to bond together to make complex life. and go telling me that it started with simple organisms and evolution brought us to where we are today because there is that big missing thing.

[TheMatrix]

how could we come from some Big Bang? There are alot of holes in that theory. There is no way for the amino acids to bond together to make complex life. and go telling me that it started with simple organisms and evolution brought us to where we are today because there is that big missing thing.
Have you ever watched the documentaries by Stephen Hawking? He's a very good scientist, and explains things really well. I suggest that you watch one of his films on the Big Bang sometime.
Yes, there are a lot of holes, but scientists are working hard to find the missing pieces.

But that has little to do with the current topic, so I'd greatly appreciate if we could return to the thread's purpose: prayer. :)

[Efflorescence]

I guess you are mixing up prayer with supplication.

First of all supplication is in fact a form of prayer. Second of all, do you think that in order for your prayer to mean something, you have to spend two hours praying? Are you saying that those 5 mins praying are going to stop you from saving the world or from creating a work of art?

It's absurd.


i agree wit jonte 100% i prayed 4 a coke nd den i went to the store nd boouhgt it this is proof that prayers come true

Loooooooooooolllllllllllllllll........a ha ha.....I laughed my fuckin ass off.

Please don't double post. Use the "Edit" or "Multi-quote" buttons next time. ~TheMatrix

[Maxxie]

how could we come from some Big Bang? There are alot of holes in that theory. There is no way for the amino acids to bond together to make complex life. and go telling me that it started with simple organisms and evolution brought us to where we are today because there is that big missing thing.

Even though you are probably just an elaborate troll

ARE YOU FUCKING SHITTING ME?

The fact that we have actually observed the production of self-replicating amino acids in a man-made primordial soup completely and totally disregards your notion of the impossibility of this jump from chemistry to biology.

Here's your ever-so-valuable scientific proof (http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html)

The earth has existed for well over 4 billion years. Do you think, in that time, these self-replicating amino acids wouldn't have had something go wrong in their reproduction that made them different, and then those differences magnified, and magnified again and again and again, to produce, from organic monomers, organic polymers?

Oh, and by the way, Amino acids are not magical. They exist because of fundamental interactions between matter (especially the electromagnetic interaction which causes cations to bind to anions and covalent bonds to form).

I don't see how, for one bloody Planck length of time, one could think that the belief that the world spontaneously erupted from some outpouring of Divine loneliness has more credibility and more foundation than a theory that has been proven again and again to be right (i.e, the "Primordial Soup" theory).

No, we do not know what came before the Big Bang, nor what happened in a space of 10^11 (I think?) seconds after it, but I can assure you that you cannot answer the question of where your God came from.

So, tell me, Mr. MENSA member, why should we have to have the logic of existentialism to our theories while you can completely disregard it in yours?

Two words: Fuck off.

[Bmatlman]

i actually havve heard of the premordial soup therory and yes it does in a way show that life could have come on its own but if it did then we would have to go look at the problum of evolution and that has a bigger hole in it then your poorly miss guided logic. It appears that once someone gets close to disproving you so called scientific resoning, you start calling them a troll. Honestly I think you are the troll sir. I am sorry Matrix I just needed to say that. I pray because it works and is comferting.

[StoppingTime]

How is a supernatural ressurection, healing supposed to be logical and scientific?

It isn't. That's the point. If you can't show scientific evidence that Jesus healed you by just asking (whats his number BTW, Imma gonna put it on ma speed dial bro..), then why should we believe it ? Because you, or one medical physician, or another bias website or youtube video says so?


Well if you believe it's a placeno, it obviously works, then why not do that rather than taking pills that most likely have side-effects, and doesn't give instant effect.

Except me thinking that even though, if I had a terminal illness, I thought it would go away (thought being used d the placebo and praying to Jesus), then lemme tell 'ya something here, it won't happen.


That's just scientific lies, healings from Jesus aren't delusions, maybe you can explain how people in wheelchairs can walk again, have they always been able to walk?

As Faris said, Rehabilitation. You can't live your life as one big miracle, you'll find it won't work for you.


Healing in Hinduism, Islam..
Their healing is not from good sources, it's from the devil.

Damn us Jews and Islams etc... we believe in the devil, even though all Jesus did was claim to be God's "son" and make up a bunch of new rules because he didn't agree with the Old Testament.


It's called rehabilitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_therapy). People with severed hands, had their hands sewed back and started to use them normally. Is that a miracle? Yes. It's called the miracle of Medical Science. No Lawd Jesus involved.

the devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist


Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8pLUMDVRc&feature=related


Another bias youtube video! Horray!! And don't ask me if I watched it, because I'll tell you now, I didn't. Prove to me that the devil exists in Christianity, can you?

I can't.

Then why argue if you know you can't prove anything to us?



2 Thessalonians 2:7-9- "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

Matthew 24:24- "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Revelation 13:13- "And he (the False Prophet) doeth great wonders so that he maketh fire to come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had the power to do in the sight of the Beast sayign to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the Beast which had the wound by a sword and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the Beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Revelation 19:20- "And the Beast was taken with him the False Prophet that wrought miracles before him and which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped the image. These both were cast alive into a lake burning with brimstone."

Source: http://fundamentalbaptistchristian.blogspot.com/2011/03/surprise-satan-can-also-do-miracles.html

All from a bias website, using books from someone who faked to be anything different than someone who wanted to change religion.

I just googled "the devil can also do miracles" and it came up as the 2nd top result.


Hark, a genius! He did a google search. Praise him!!!! yeaaaano.




ok for one thing i have a higher comprehention level then you could every dream of. i am a member of MENSA. and some of the modern day prophecy is that isrial would become a country once again. that russia would become a military super power. that the temple would be rebuilt. i that the world would resort to a single currency ( hasnt happened yet but is the best way to get out of economic crisis) also my odds were a bit off ( did by memory from lesson i was half asleep for a few years ago) but the odds of

all the prophecy obout jesus christ coming true is 1 in 100 trillion. that is for eight prophecy of which all came true. here is the page http://home.surewest.net/dfrench/evidence/prophecy.html and i dont care if you think its biased. read it and try to comprehend it.


It is bias, so don't even bother with it. And oooooh, your a member of Mensa. Nobody could ever be as high as you, my mighty all powerful master. /sarcasm. What does that matter. And you're great at spelling too, that must have been what got you in.

[Bmatlman]

If the bible is made up then explain why so many prophecy in it have come true. I cant't wait till the end of they world. Then i can see you beg at the foot of the thrown of the lord. all who are denied will be sent to the lake of fire for eternal punishment.

[StoppingTime]

If the bible is made up then explain why so many prophecy in it have come true. I cant't wait till the end of they world. Then i can see you beg at the foot of the thrown of the lord. May God have mercy on your soul.

Hold up there. I never said the Bible was made up. I am an observant Jew, and as much as so many of you guys here hate that, I honestly don't care. Anyway, I was saying that the New Testament has nothing to it. And where's the whole end of the world thing coming from?

[Bmatlman]

aww youre jewish. so that explains the stuff against the new testiment and jesus, but jesus was a real man who lived on earth.

[Maxxie]

If the bible is made up then explain why so many prophecy in it have come true. I cant't wait till the end of they world. Then i can see you beg at the foot of the thrown of the lord. May God have mercy on your soul.

What soul?

aww youre jewish. so that explains the stuff against the new testiment and jesus, but jesus was a real man who lived on earth.

So was Pol Pot.

[StoppingTime]

So was Pol Pot.

Yea. This. Kinda. He wasn't anything special. You cannot prove that.

[huginnmuninn]

May God have mercy on your soul.

I'm gonna be honest i literally laughed out loud when i read this. it sounds like something from a cheesy movie or something.
:devil: i think i would rather the devil have mercy on my soul since im going to hell based on what you think

[Bmatlman]

no ones is just damned to hell. everyone will have a chance at heaven when the second coming of christ happens.

[huginnmuninn]

no ones is just damned to hell. everyone will have a chance at heaven when the second coming of christ happens.

well then whats the point of believing now when i will be able to believe when i know for sure that god exists?

[Maxxie]

well then whats the point of believing now when i will be able to believe when i know for sure that god exists?

Because blind belief in something that may or may not exist is accpeted as a virtue for the sole fucking purpose of having followers.

A lot of religions are just like really bad Tumblrs.

[Jess]

no ones is just damned to hell. everyone will have a chance at heaven when the second coming of christ happens.

and how do you know the second coming of Christ will happen?

[Bmatlman]

because the bible says so.

[TheMatrix]

because the bible says so.
Here we go again...

Guess what? I can make a book too. I will call it the Book of Thomas-inism. It predicts that each day, the sun will rise from the East. Over the course of 10-ish hours, it moves and eventually sets in the West. When the sun is overhead, people go about their daily business. At the end, they retire to their homes and lay on their beds and sleep.

How do I know? Because the Great Book of Thomas-inism says so.
Your turn :cool:

[Bmatlman]

the bible hasnt lied yet. i would dare you guys to give me an example of a lie from the bible but non of you have probubly read it. if you do you cant use god or the creation story as an example. you have to have proof that its a lie too.

[Magus]

because the bible says so.Ever heard of Circular Reasoning Mr. Mensa?

First of all supplication is in fact a form of prayer. Second of all, do you think that in order for your prayer to mean something, you have to spend two hours praying? Are you saying that those 5 mins praying are going to stop you from saving the world or from creating a work of art?I agree with you, it's absurd praying to invisible being that you cannot hear or see or feel.(YMMV on the last one)

the bible hasnt lied yet. i would dare you guys to give me an example of a lie from the bible but non of you have probubly read it. if you do you cant use god or the creation story as an example. you have to have proof that its a lie too.Yeah, the universe is six year old. Congrats, bud.

Have you ever watched the documentaries by Stephen Hawking?
Or Carl Sagan or Michio Kako or Max Tegmark or etc.

[TheMatrix]

the bible hasnt lied yet. i would dare you guys to give me an example of a lie from the bible but non of you have probubly read it. if you do you cant use god or the creation story as an example. you have to have proof that its a lie too.
Let me paraphrase that for you:
The Bible hasn't lied, and I will insist that it doesn't. You guys can try to give me a lie story, but hopefully enough of you will submit something so I can ignore the ones I know are actually lies. But then again, you people have no idea what the bible says, so it doesn't really matter what you say anyways. Oh, and you need "proof", but it can't be from any unbiased or biased towards non-Christian sites.
Correct?

[Maxxie]

That awkward moment when you find out God lied to his own people. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+22&version=NIV)

[Jess]

the bible hasnt lied yet.

there are SO MANY freaking contradictions in the Bible. The Bible also says lots of crap about animals. like a bat is a bird.

Some contradictions:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

i would dare you guys to give me an example of a lie from the bible but non of you have probubly read it. if you do you cant use god or the creation story as an example. you have to have proof that its a lie too.

I've heard somewhere that atheists are more knowledgeable in the Bible than most Christians .... maybe that's true or not true but some Christians don't even know the Bible approve of rape, murder, and slavery. even if it's in the Old Testament, they don't know about it.

[jonte95]

there are SO MANY freaking contradictions in the Bible. The Bible also says lots of crap about animals. like a bat is a bird.

Some contradictions:





I've heard somewhere that atheists are more knowledgeable in the Bible than most Christians .... maybe that's true or not true but some Christians don't even know the Bible approve of rape, murder, and slavery. even if it's in the Old Testament, they don't know about it.

Why is it necessary to know about them if it's abolished laws?

Judg 1:19 is not a contradiction:
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/q16.htm

Check this site, and look up the other "contradictions":

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/bible.htm

Hold up there. I never said the Bible was made up. I am an observant Jew, and as much as so many of you guys here hate that, I honestly don't care. Anyway, I was saying that the New Testament has nothing to it. And where's the whole end of the world thing coming from?

You know, some old jewish "rabbis´" whispered in peoples ears "Jesus is Messiah", before their death. My mum said that.


Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus' Life:
http://www.askapastor.org/proph.html

[StoppingTime]

You know, some old jewish "rabbis´" whispered in peoples ears "Jesus is Messiah", before their death. My mum said that.


Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus' Life:
http://www.biachristianwebsiteproph.html



again, personal stories are completely meaningless. I think I've told you that before, no?

And I fixed the link for you

[Genghis Khan]

the bible hasnt lied yet.

It lied when it said spanking donkeys is a good idea. Now none of the donkeys in the ranch will do me.

[Efflorescence]

again, personal stories are completely meaningless. I think I've told you that before, no?

And I fixed the link for you

What you're saying about the New Testament, can also apply for what happened in the Old Testament. You cannot be certain for both testaments.

I agree with you, it's absurd praying to invisible being that you cannot hear or see or feel.(YMMV on the last one)

Lol....not 'praying' is absurd.....the notion that praying is going to stop you from doing things is absurd...but you knew that, didn't you? Praying will not stop you from being creative, from helping people, from doing what you want to do in life. That is what I'm trying to say. Praying can never be wrong. You can say that it is meaningless or absurd but never wrong.

And sometimes, we are faced with certain situations in life where we are ready to do even things which are 'absurd' to try and solve our problems.

[jonte95]

Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus' Life:
http://www.biachristianwebsiteproph.html



again, personal stories are completely meaningless. I think I've told you that before, no?

And I fixed the link for you

What do you mean personal stories? It includes verses from the OT.



Damn us Jews and Islams etc... we believe in the devil, even though all Jesus did was claim to be God's "son" and make up a bunch of new rules because he didn't agree with the Old Testament.


Jews believe in God.

[StoppingTime]

What do you mean personal stories? It includes verses from the OT.




Jews believe in God.

I was saying whet you said that your mother told you that some rabbis thought Jesus was the Messiah. There's no proof there.

And I know Jews believe in God. That post, which you took out of context, is when your said that other religions didn't get there "healing powers" from good sources.

[jonte95]

http://daydreamsaboutgod.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/new_hubble_images.jpg

WASHINGTON, DC – Despite new repairs to the Hubble Telescope, NASA refuses to release old photos or take new ones of Heaven!

In 1994, a researcher was smuggled one top-secret photo the Hubble Space Telescope had taken of what is presumed to be Heaven. Weekly World News was the first to print the image and report on Dr. Masson’s findings, but despite the media coverage, NASA refused to acknowledge the existence of the photo.

Now that the Hubble has been repaired and NASA is officially releasing some of it’s new findings, the Weekly World News editorial team believes it is NASA’s responsibility to further investigate this space anomaly!

Source: http://daydreamsaboutgod.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/picture-of-heaven-by-hubble-telescope/

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/11684/new-hubble-images/

[StoppingTime]

image (http://daydreamsaboutgod.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/new_hubble_images.jpg)

WASHINGTON, DC – Despite new repairs to the Hubble Telescope, NASA refuses to release old photos or take new ones of Heaven!

In 1994, a researcher was smuggled one top-secret photo the Hubble Space Telescope had taken of what is presumed to be Heaven. Weekly World News was the first to print the image and report on Dr. Masson’s findings, but despite the media coverage, NASA refused to acknowledge the existence of the photo.

Now that the Hubble has been repaired and NASA is officially releasing some of it’s new findings, the Weekly World News editorial team believes it is NASA’s responsibility to further investigate this space anomaly!

Source: http://daydreamsaboutgod.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/picture-of-heaven-by-hubble-telescope/

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/11684/new-hubble-images/



I only clicked the second one because it didn't have God in the URL, and I don't even know why. How do you prove to me this is Olam HaBah (heaven)?

Was there a big neon sign saying "heaven here" that I didn't see?

And don't say because the article or speaker said so, that's meaningless opinion.

[jonte95]

I only clicked the second one because it didn't have God in the URL, and I don't even know why. How do you prove to me this is Olam HaBah (heaven)?

Was there a big neon sign saying "heaven here" that I didn't see?

And don't say because the article or speaker said so, that's meaningless opinion.

What else do you think it is?
I don't think it looks like some alien place, given that it looks like it has "roman" buildings and waterfalls.

It looks like a hill, don't you think?

Psalm 3:4
I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and he heard me out of his holy hill. Selah.
Psalm 3:3-5 (in Context) Psalm 3 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 15:1
Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
Psalm 15:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 15 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 24:3
Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
Psalm 24:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 24 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 43:3
O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
Psalm 43:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 43 (Whole Chapter)

[Jess]

edit: actually, the picture IS fake. it doesn't even look real

[Bmatlman]

edit: actually, the picture IS fake. it doesn't even look real

of corse you would say that. you a strong willed young woman who has already determied not to let her beleifs be changed because youve been hurt by so many broken promises. you only will bealive in what you bealive to absolute and refuse anything that you doubt, how even little it is. you so predictable. all of you.

also if you actually bothered to click on of the links there is real pictures from hubble.

[StoppingTime]

edit: actually, the picture IS fake. it doesn't even look real

I thought so too.

And even if it was real, just because it looks like something (which it really doesn't) what more does that prove?

And bob, just because other pictures may be real doesn't mean that one is, and there is no way you can prove it to me otherwise.

[Bmatlman]

i know i cant prove anything. obviously the b&w one is photo shopped though.

[Syvelocin]

The human mind has a tendency to look for familiar figures in everything, to identify them as something they have seen before. Even when the thing the person is looking at is nothing near what they think it is, they still see it because the mind is trained to look for recognizable patterns. For example, a common paranormal claim is seeing a face in the mirror. Old cracked and smudged mirrors are often the mirrors in question. They see a pattern of smudges or scratches or whatever it is that to their mind resembles a face, but isn't of course. This is often the case with a lot of religious anomalies. Like Jesus' face in a pancake or something. Or crisps that are shaped like the heads of celebrities that those strange collectors who go on talk shows have.

[jonte95]

edit: actually, the picture IS fake. it doesn't even look real

How do you know it's fake? Look at the waterfalls, in the front. It looks like waterfalls atleast.

Notice when it was captured too: February 8, 1994.



Then how can we know other planets like saturn etc, aren't fake?

Yes I know what the picture wasn't a picture of a planet but a glimpse of heaven, didn't you see the light that emitted out from it, on the picture?

If NASA posted this picture as a fake, then how can we be sure all other Hubble pictures aren't fake?

Why would they keep it secret, if it's fake?

[Jess]

lol how do you know it's real

it's freaking obvious pictures of planets are real

[jonte95]

lol how do you know it's real

it's freaking obvious pictures of planets are real

Because if it isn't, how can we know other pictures NASA have taken are real or not?

[Magus]

Because if it isn't, how can we know other pictures NASA have taken are real or not?We don't care about NASA. Why are we talking about NASA? Answer the other godamn questions.

How about you make your own telescopes and start taking pictures. It isn't impossible if you have enough resources. Unlike the biblical miracles, which you obviously cannot replicate. Unfortunately.

And the heaven pictures looks fake, most definitely. If you tell me that heaven is in alternative universe, I would have at least consider that. But no. You have to take fake pictures.

Not different from this one:
CLICK ME PLEASE (http://www.ufocasebook.com/redbudillinois042350.jpg)

Come on. You can't be that stupid, now.

of corse you would say that. you a strong willed young woman who has already determied not to let her beleifs be changed because youve been hurt by so many broken promises. you only will bealive in what you bealive to absolute and refuse anything that you doubt, how even little it is. you so predictable. all of you.
LAWL Broken promises. Dude, it's called SKEPTICISM.

Skeptics are believers, it's only that they need tangible evidences to cement their beliefs, otherwise they'd too will shatter and vanish.

Actually, the thing you said applies to you. It's called CONFIRMATION BIAS, Mr. Mensa.

[dead]

Because if it isn't, how can we know other pictures NASA have taken are real or not?

Do you not understand what a telescope is?

[Bmatlman]

hey im just backing out cause there is no convincing you guys. also im tired of losing all my rep to you guys. -236! i used to have 47.

[jonte95]

2OxNVmxYfmA

[Jess]

Because if it isn't, how can we know other pictures NASA have taken are real or not?

so those planets we see through a telescope are fake.....the telescope is showing us fake things....

wow -_-

[dead]

2OxNVmxYfmA

A few sentences in and 'night' is spelled "nite" in the description.

[jonte95]

A few sentences in and 'night' is spelled "nite" in the description.

Ok, but did you watch the video?

[deadpie]

Lol....not 'praying' is absurd.....the notion that praying is going to stop you from doing things is absurd...

Look, when people pray for people, they're not actually doing anything for that person, when in fact, they COULD just do something without praying, which is obviously far more offective.

Two hands at work do more than a thousand at prayer.

from helping people

See above. Praying is the half ass two cent 'I'll pretend like I give a shit' way of helping someone.

fPraying can never be wrong. You can say that it is meaningless or absurd but never wrong.

You're WRONG! If there's a child dying with something that can be treated and people decide to do nothing more but to pray that he lives, then he will probably die. That's wrong. That's when prayer gets illogical.

Just like when Jonte95 was talking about how medicine is actually fake and you don't actually need it. That's illogical. It would be illogical for me to stop taking my insulin and just say, "I'm going to pray that I just don't die now."

And sometimes, we are faced with certain situations in life where we are ready to do even things which are 'absurd' to try and solve our problems.

What does this even mean? It means absolutely nothing! Brings nothing to the debate and it's an absolutely pointless thing to add to your absolutely confused post.

Look, praying won't solve your problems and now you've admitted that praying is absurd. Congratulations.

------------------------



http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/11684/new-hubble-images/

also if you actually bothered to click on of the links there is real pictures from hubble.

You realize that you were linking information from a Satirical site that parodies religion all the time and strongly in the case? WOW! You couldn't get any funnier than that. Weekly World News. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News)

[StoppingTime]

You realize that you were linking information from a Satirical site that parodies religion all the time and strongly in the case? WOW! You couldn't get any funnier than that. Weekly World News. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News)

This just proves that all he probably did was click this proof of heaven and click the first result, without even looking at the site he was clicking just to prove we were wrong....


And yes, even from a religious standpoint, living your life a miracle is the wrong way to liv and will get you into problems.

[Maxxie]

Jonte, you've lost. You have no point, no cohesiveness, no argument worth a damn, and you'r only furthering the other side of the debate by flamboyantly shouting your stupidity like a flamer at a Pride parade, only much more obnoxious and not as intelligent.

And this thread has gotten so far off topic that soon enough we're going go be personally pulling Jonte's head out of his ass.

[TheMatrix]

Remember that favour I asked for a while ago (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1538266&postcount=232)? Yeah, the headache was still there :(

Or did God ignore you(provided you prayed for me)? Hmmm....

[Magus]

Remember that favour I asked for a while ago (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1538266&postcount=232)? Yeah, the headache was still there :(

Or did God ignore you(provided you prayed for me)? Hmmm....I have the best irrefutable argument for this: God works in mysterious way!

That disease is perhaps a sign from God!

:P

[TheMatrix]

I have the best irrefutable argument for this: God works in mysterious way!

That disease is perhaps a sign from God!

:P
Why, you're right, Faris! :eek:
I am merely a devil-worshipping infidel, who will go to hell after all this. Then I get to beg at this God-dude's foot and stuff :cool:

[Magus]

I am merely a devil-worshipping infidel, who will go to hell after all this. Then I get to beg at this God-dude's foot and stuff :cool:You devil worshiping evil atheist! If you don't pray, the God dude will burn in hell!

Okay. I will stop teh spammings. I have to agree with Maxxie. This thread is really going down. Neither Bmatlman(Mr. Mensa) nor jonte95 provided us the proofs for a functional prayer or healing prayer in general. And they have failed in providing us reliable sources, too. And consistently demonstrating us their application of beautiful failed logic as well.

BTW. A reliable source, for example, would be a link to a university research(even if it's in theology or religion branch).

[jonte95]

Remember that favour I asked for a while ago (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1538266&postcount=232)? Yeah, the headache was still there :(

Or did God ignore you(provided you prayed for me)? Hmmm....

I didn't pray for you. Do you still have a headache or something?

[Jess]

if praying really cures cancer why don't someone with deep faith pray for a cure for cancer? Then there will be no more need for research for trying to find a cure. How about pray to God to rid the world of poverty? If your God is all powerful, he should be able to do that. and why does it need praying? If God is kind, he can do good things WITHOUT PRAYING

[jonte95]

if praying really cures cancer why don't someone with deep faith pray for a cure for cancer? Then there will be no more need for research for trying to find a cure. How about pray to God to rid the world of poverty? If your God is all powerful, he should be able to do that. and why does it need praying? If God is kind, he can do good things WITHOUT PRAYING

We can't comprehend his omnipotence. He can do anything. But he wants us to pray.

Also, these things has to happen in the end-times.

Ask the question on Christianforums > Christian advice, if you want better answers.

[Genghis Khan]

We can't comprehend his omnipotence. He can do anything. But he wants us to pray.

This post is the prime reason why everyone here should stop taking this thread seriously.

[Jess]

This post is the prime reason why everyone here should stop taking this thread seriously.

agreed. from now on I'm no longer going to take this thread seriously.

[kenoloor]

We can't comprehend his omnipotence. He can do anything. But he wants us to pray.

If you can't comprehend his omnipotence, how do you know he wants you to pray? Whatever. Rawal's right. This is stupid.

[StoppingTime]

If you can't comprehend his omnipotence, how do you know he wants you to pray? Whatever. Rawal's right. This is stupid.

Yes, this thread should have been over 15 pages ago. From a religious standpoint, you aren't supposed to understand God, so why have you been trying to tell us you can?

[Maxxie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all

Checkmate.

[jonte95]

If you can't comprehend his omnipotence, how do you know he wants you to pray? Whatever. Rawal's right. This is stupid.

Yes, this thread should have been over 15 pages ago. From a religious standpoint, you aren't supposed to understand God, so why have you been trying to tell us you can?

I quote from: http://goanddisciple.blogspot.com/2011/06/jesus-wants-us-to-pray.html

our Father wants us to ask for what we think we need. I understand that. As a father, I always tell my children that I want them to ask if they want something. They know that I will not always say "Yes." In fact, more often than not my response will be "Let's wait." or "No." I would be an irresponsible father and husband if I didn't. And, I always try to explain to my children why I have given the answer that I have. That way, I hope that they may have wise reasoning when they are adults and have to care for more than just themselves; just as my parents trained me.

But I tell my children that if they don't ask, they won't have. So, they need to ask. Jesus tells us the exact same thing about our Father in Heaven. If we don't ask, we won't have. If we don't ask, we won't know his answer on many important things. We won't know what he says yes to, what he says no to and what he says not yet to.

Asking our Father for what we want isn't about getting what we want, it is about learning what our Father wants. Because when we want what He wants, we are in a position to be trusted with just about anything since we are mature in Christ.

According to our Lord Jesus, our Father wants us to ask. Our Father wants us to keep asking. Our Father wants us to trust and respect Him as our Father.

And he said to them, “Suppose one of you has a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread; for a friend of mine has arrived, and I have nothing to set before him.’ And he answers from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door has already been locked, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.’ I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, at least because of his persistence he will get up and give him whatever he needs.
“So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for a fish, will give a snake instead of a fish? Or if the child asks for an egg, will give a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

[Jess]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all

Checkmate.

that just about sums everything up

[Donkey]

300 posts later and you guys are still getting trolled. This thread is going nowhere. Game over :locked2: