If a child commits suicide due to bullying is it the parent's fault?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Elsewhere on the Internet I had debate about whether parents should sue a school if their child commits suicide due to bullying that the school did not adequately address. Another person said that the suicide was the parents' fault because the parents should have been more assertive either in moving the child to a new school or pressuring the school to take. He gave an exmpae of what he would do if his child were being bullied, and now, I am reconsidering my original position that the school is to blame.

If it were my child that was being bullied, I'd do everything in my power to make it stop. I wouldn't push it onto the school to solve my problems for me, I'd take direct action myself. That's what being a parent is all about. It sounds to me like these parents wanted to find someone else to blame for their own shortcomings.



First, I'd make an appointment to see my child's teacher or teachers and principal to find out what him/her/they know about the situation. I'd outline clearly what my expectations are - that the school take every appropriate action to prevent the other child(ren) from being able to bully my child in school. I would give them a time-frame to have these in place, and seek a second meeting after that time has passed to discuss what has been achieved and what has not.

If I wasn't satisfied with the school's handling of the case, I'd refer it on to other agencies. That would depend on the structure in place - you mentioned a school board in one of your posts. I'd refer it to the district office of the state government education department here which is probably our equivalent. I'd refer it to the state government education department itself if I still felt I was getting nowhere. I'd complain to my elected state member of parliament to put pressure on the Education Minister in government. I'd go to the media with a "this mob of bastards aren't doing anything to stop my son/daughter being bullied in school". I'd go to the police and make a formal complaint, especially if the bullying had a physical aspect to it. I'd apply to the courts for a restraining (protection) order.

There's plenty that can be done, all it requires is a bit of work on behalf of the parents, rather than expecting someone else to do it all for them. And all of this happens before my child gets to the point of committing suicide.

[Amaryllis]

The child is at fault.

Understood, bullying does effect the bullied, but how the bullied reacts, too, contributes to the events that later occur. Unless someone is torturing another and asking them to kill themselves, suicide really is your own doing. It isn't murder - it's suicide.

Example, two "victims" may be shoved daily, called names and ignored. Victim A shrugs and laughs it off, "bullies" get bored. Victim B may cry, say how life sucks and kill themselves. How we react to situations affect the outcome.

Every now and then I blame my father for my eating disorders and my mother for my cutting, but I can't. They didn't -make- me do it. I made me do it. We need to take responsibility for our own actions. Granted, bullying may be one of the reasons, but it isn't the definite and only cause.

A "bully" is also subjective. As are victims. When we think of bullies, we often think of big, nasty, sociopathic kids who shove, punch and lock kids in lockers. But come on, siblings who beat, insult and ridicule you every day can be considered bullies. Parents who neglect, hit and embarrass their kids probably can, too. Hell, a kid who flashes his middle finger at your face every day could be considered a bully.

When I was coping with anorexia, tons of people spread rumours about me, called me names, tripped me, stuck nasty things in my locker and ignored me. Not that I really gave much of a fuck, well, I did. It made me feel even shittier than I already did but it was just a nagging pinch in comparison to my own mind and body. Hurrr, walking around with 50 pounds on me kind of hurt. "Kind of."

Thing is, I'm not dead, but if I did commit suicide, it would've been because of my eating disorders, not because of the bullying.

Parents and teachers often wish to pin the blame on something they can understand. They don't want to think their shitty parenting skills, them pressuring their kids, scolding, neglecting or whatever it is contributed to the death of their child. They don't want to see that perhaps their -kid might have had a problem-. It could've been their own minds causing them the most anguish.

Often my disgust for myself hurts me more than the actual sexual abuse. Sure, the sexual abuse probably led to the self-hate. But my process of thought made me feel this way. I could very well ask for help. It's not like the law is stopping me. Haha. Get it? No? Okay.

Bullying is a contributing factor, but the bullied need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Anyway, what makes the adults think they can help? Often telling a teacher or guardian only makes it worse. You can't -force- someone to like someone else. If anything, the hostility will grow. Bullying prevention's great and all, but how about teaching kids how to cope and deal with hostility?

Fact is, you're gonna meet tons of douchebags in your life. You're gonna be physically, mentally and perhaps even sexually abused. No one is completely liked by absolutely everyone. Being a member of society is like being a politician. No matter what you do, you're gonna be hated.

What is the point of suing schools or parents? How does that solve anything at all? Can adults really control all teenagers? Who does everything their mother or teacher says? How in the world is getting them to pay you tons of money gonna bring your dead child back? How about you all just sit down and talk about how you're gonna make things better for others from here on? Supporting each other through this massive loss?

Next they'll be blaming the parents of the best friends of all these people who committed suicide!

I'm truly sorry if I've offended anyone who's been bullied. It's complete -shit- and I'm sure you feel like hell. Believe me, I understand. Acknowledge how you feel, know this won't last forever. Do what you think feels right. No, not suicide. It isn't the only way out. It isn't even a way out. You have your whole life ahead of you, when you're their boss, it'll bite them in the ass. Don't have to be a victim. Be a survivor.

The only real way to conquer bullying is to rise above it.

[Genghis Khan]

Pretty much agreed with everything Z said. As harsh as it sounds, from a logical standpoint suicide is your own doing, there are so many factors influencing each individual suicide that it would be impossible for anyone to put a definitive blame on one of the contributing factors.

[Jess]

also agree with Z. I think maybe the school and parents should have done something, but they shouldn't be to blame

[AllThatYouDreamed]

If a child commits suicide with no intervention beforehand it *is* the parent's fault, regardless of what could be chalked to the cause of it.

Because it's the parents' job to know their kid, talk to them, and intervene when they show suicidal tendencies.
If the parent isn't even trying to get the child help, its the parents fault their kid went through with it.

[DerBear]

suicide is a selfish act commited by the person who killed themselves as theres always to choices in life...they never stopped to think who it may hurt.

[Genghis Khan]

suicide is a selfish act commited by the person who killed themselves as theres always to choices in life...they never stopped to think who it may hurt.

wow.

[AllThatYouDreamed]

suicide is a selfish act commited by the person who killed themselves as theres always to choices in life...they never stopped to think who it may hurt.

And the parents played no role in neglecting their child's emotional stability at all?

[DerBear]

wow.

Okay

And the parents played no role in neglecting their child's emotional stability at all?

Well to be honest, parents dont always see this kinda stuff.

If anyone here has suffered depriession, they dont always talk to mum and dad about it now do they? most parents think it is there childs way of being moody and growing up.

My best friend commited sucide came from a loving home and everything

Parents are not to blame.

Why do we seek to blame when there is no blame except in the one that killed themselves

[embers]

Pretty much agreed with everything Z said. As harsh as it sounds, from a logical standpoint suicide is your own doing, there are so many factors influencing each individual suicide that it would be impossible for anyone to put a definitive blame on one of the contributing factors.

Suicide may be your own doing, but it isn't necessarily your own fault. Individuals react differently to different situations and there's no way you can really pin the suicide blame on somebody who feels as if they are being mentally tortured - extreme emotional states of mind generally aren't subject to logical rationing.

Basically I disagree with most of what Z said.

[tHe_Jester1080]

This may be a bad analogy but I think it's just like the people who sued McDonald's because they got fat. Ya the bullies may have contributed to the person's reason for suicide, but they didn't force the person to kill themselves. The school or the parents are not even close to being able to be blamed.

[Marky]

Suicide on its own is a topic that takes many many many factors into consideration. Most people would agree its the persons owwn fault for commiting suicide ( I agree) but their is the key factor of was their anything done to help prevent this? Did the child seek help? All in all suicide is a delicate case that depends on mmany factors and mainly the emotional stability of that person the moments when they commit suicide.


I totally disagree with the quote taling it to legeslature and what not, that is not their problem. They were saying to to blame anyone and seek answers themselves than why would they have to go to the government?


ANYWAYS,,,,,,,, I believe that the thought of suicide can be brought upon but in the end it matters the emotional strength foundation that the individual has.

[Genghis Khan]

Suicide may be your own doing, but it isn't necessarily your own fault. Individuals react differently to different situations and there's no way you can really pin the suicide blame on somebody who feels as if they are being mentally tortured - extreme emotional states of mind generally aren't subject to logical rationing.

Basically I disagree with most of what Z said.

It's your own doing. I suppose pinning the 'blame' on someone isn't really possible was the point of what I said earlier, there are so many things to consider that it's actually impossible to definitively say (like the OP suggests we should) who is responsible.


Why do we seek to blame when there is no blame except in the one that killed themselves

The problem is there's too many things to 'blame'. So the problem isn't to find out who/what to 'blame' and hold them/that responsible. The most you can do is make available people who can offer help and emphasise on how important it is to talk to someone about these things instead of taking the least favoured option.

[Donkey]

I think anyone's action is their own responsibility, and in turn, their own fault. But that is not to say that pushing someone over the edge or letting something happen is acceptable either.

It is not the parents fault if someone commits suicide - it can't be, as that was the action of that individual (hence: committing suicide). However, yeah, if they're bullying them or just not paying attention then they can take some of the blame for the slightly different act of homicide (specifically, manslaughter). They have a legal responsibility over that child, and if they're not fulfilling it and have pushed someone over the edge to killing themselves, they should be subject to the penalties.

People are not subject to rationality when emotionally abused, as Sachal as mentioned. We all have the responsibility to care for each other as humans, and if you let someone go that far... obviously on a case by case basis, but that person who did nothing to help should be held responsible. Not for their individual suicide, no, because that was their choice... but it's like giving someone a gun and telling them to either kill themselves or subject them to torture. Extreme example but same logic - you didn't kill them, but you are still responsible.

[Amaryllis]

I pretty much agree with everything Jon said. I was pretty irrational, harsh and emotional in my first post and I truly do apologise for that. Especially to anyone who has been emotionally, sexually or physically abused.

This debate is quite personal to me and I really shouldn't have let my current situation and past get in the way of my rationality.

Everyone is partially responsible. The people who subjected the child to the abuse, the people who knew and failed to help, the guardians of the victim, school authorities, as well as the child who killed himself.

Bullying is in no way "right", but I genuinely do not see the point of suing the parents or the school. What good is that going to do anyone? It isn't going to bring the victim back, that's for sure. And can adults truly control the actions of children? Sure, they could monitor it, but 24 hours, every day and everywhere?

The "bullies" will most likely have been subjected to extreme trauma, knowing their actions resulted in the death of another human being? Most bullies will have been punished enough. We should teach kids how to cope and how to treat each other with respect, rather than pointing fingers and blaming each other when it's too late.

[bigjohnson]

idk about this

[Sporadica]

I'm going to catch some flak for this but I think anyone who kills themselves is taking the cowards way out.

I don't really feel anything when I hear some kid killed them self because they were picked on. I was picked on too. I stood up for myself and then it stopped/

[AJay]

I'm going to catch some flak for this but I think anyone who kills themselves is taking the cowards way out.

I don't really feel anything when I hear some kid killed them self because they were picked on. I was picked on too. I stood up for myself and then it stopped/


In your eyes they may be taking the 'cowards way out' but in their eyes they don't SEE any other option. I know because I've been suicidal.

Good for you for having the self-esteem to pick yourself up though. ^^

But being able to do that depends on EVERY individual situation. I was never able to stand for my self. So I ran.

Fight or flight is very much a true statement when it comes to dealing with people like bullies. They are both natural reactions but neither are thought through. They happen in an instant when the act is happening. Therefore not everyone really can stand up for themselves like you did.

Now on whose fault a suicide is you can't really blame anyone in particular. In part it is genetics and how the child's brain is wired, it could be due to abuse at home or past experiences, could be school, could be bad parenting, could be stress, and it could be bullying.

From my experience there is NEVER one cause for someone being suicidal. It is a number of different things that have built up inside a person.

Yes, the actual act is the person who killed themselves fault but what leads up to it really isn't. You can't control such innate things programmed into you and the things happening to and around you at the same time.

So saying suicide is that own persons fault is like saying it is their fault they caught a disease.

Because people I assure you that depression IS an illness and suicide comes from depression.

On the other hand if they are perfectly fine and they do it for fun... yea. Then it is entirely their fault.

I feel like saying suicide was someones own fault is not only untrue but disrespectful to the one who committed the act.

[Kylehide]

And the parents played no role in neglecting their child's emotional stability at all?

and if they didn't know?

[User Deleted]

Wasn't this here before (what... a month ago) Never reached an agreement, it ended up a war of views both correct in their own individual ways.

---

Well... My opinion...

Suicide was no specific persons fault. It was the contributions (and that what was not contributed) that lead to the final result.

Now, despite I find the bully has to put their dignity down and admit it was partly their fault, be it in speech or not. They just need to know they helped them kill themselves, that guilt along with the immense gray area of events is punishment enough.

The parents fault? Not even close. I think it's the kids responsibility to recognize when they need help, and get it when they need it.

---

I know it's not much of an argument. But I'm really not in to mood to say any more.

[antiabort]

It is the child's fault, those who commit suicide are weak minded.

[StoppingTime]

It is the child's fault, those who commit suicide are weak minded.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/5/11dbfa22-fef5-44f5-8a46-8a8c3b569d44.jpg

You obviously don't know what people have to go through then do you. Your too high on your pedestal to see.
A kid is gay, they are teased about it everyday. They are abused, demeaned, and just about everything they have to live for is gone.

Would that make you think you are weak minded?

[antiabort]

image (http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/5/11dbfa22-fef5-44f5-8a46-8a8c3b569d44.jpg)

You obviously don't know what people have to go through then do you. Your too high on your pedestal to see.
A kid is gay, they are teased about it everyday. They are abused, demeaned, and just about everything they have to live for is gone.

Would that make you think you are weak minded?

I was bulled from kindergarten to 8th grade, and you know what I did? I went to school with a stick one day and beat the fuck out of the main kid doing it. Nobody has ever fucked with me since and I earned respect and friends for it. I thought about killing myself many times, but never even attempted it. Now before you say violence is bad and solves nothing etc etc, sometimes violence is necessary.

[StoppingTime]

I was bulled from kindergarten to 8th grade, and you know what I did? I went to school with a stick one day and beat the fuck out of the main kid doing it. Nobody has ever fucked with me since and I earned respect and friends for it. I thought about killing myself many times, but never even attempted it. Now before you say violence is bad and solves nothing etc etc, sometimes violence is necessary.

How does this have to do with anything, other than giving your story?

How does this have to do with people who are going through horrible times being weak minded? Yes, I will say, what happened to you shouldn't have. But violence has nothing to do with this argument.

[kenoloor]

It is the child's fault, those who commit suicide are weak minded.

At first I was going to say that this was the dumbest post I've ever seen on this site. Ever.

I was bulled from kindergarten to 8th grade, and you know what I did? I went to school with a stick one day and beat the fuck out of the main kid doing it. Nobody has ever fucked with me since and I earned respect and friends for it. I thought about killing myself many times, but never even attempted it. Now before you say violence is bad and solves nothing etc etc, sometimes violence is necessary.

But nope. You topped yourself. This is fucking stupid.

As to the motherfucking topic: of course it's not the parent's fault. It's the kid's "fault." Suicide is a choice, even if it seems like the only one.

[StoppingTime]

As to the motherfucking topic: of course it's not the parent's fault. It's the kid's "fault." Suicide is a choice, even if it seems like the only one.

And yes, to the topic, I couldn't agree more here.

[antiabort]

How does this have to do with anything, other than giving your story?

How does this have to do with people who are going through horrible times being weak minded? Yes, I will say, what happened to you shouldn't have. But violence has nothing to do with this argument.

Is it that difficult to see the point? i was bullied, I decided to solve the problem rather than "opt out" and others should do the same.

[StoppingTime]

Is it that difficult to see the point? i was bullied, I decided to solve the problem rather than "opt out" and others should do the same.

nonononononnonono. NO.

OK, you fought for yourself. This doesn't mean you're strong.
Again, picture this scenario. There is a fifteen year old kid, who is gay, and out. He is constantly being berated, hurt both physically and emotionally by it. He has a speech impediment, and can't bear to hear the sound of his own voice sometimes. What's he going to do? Even if you don't take it this far, there are plenty of time (the vast) majority, actually, that a kid can't do anything physical to stop it.

[antiabort]

nonononononnonono. NO.

OK, you fought for yourself. This doesn't mean you're strong.
Again, picture this scenario. There is a fifteen year old kid, who is gay, and out. He is constantly being berated, hurt both physically and emotionally by it. He has a speech impediment, and can't bear to hear the sound of his own voice sometimes. What's he going to do? Even if you don't take it this far, there are plenty of time (the vast) majority, actually, that a kid can't do anything physical to stop it.

If it is that bad you can report those fuckers to the police can't you?

[Mara-chan]

you could...but sometimes the cops can't really do anything about it....

unless the parents are the bullies, then no....it is not the parents fault....though, you can view it as a mix of things, like i do....you can blame the parents and the school for not seeing things and trying to help/stop this from happening....you can blame the kid for commiting suicide...the kid had a choice and didnt seek help....and again, if the kid did seek help and nothing was done, you can blame the parents or school again....

it is just a huge continous circle of "blaming" people....like i said....i think there is fault everywhere....for the choice, the lack of communication, and help.....

thats just how i see it....

[StoppingTime]

If it is that bad you can report those fuckers to the police can't you?

See. there. you said before violence was sometimes needed. Now its not. Now they are back to their weak minded selves, because weak minded people don't fight. And also, you think its easy for them to do that?

[Slytherin_Prince]

It is the child's fault, those who commit suicide are weak minded.

There is so much fail in that sentence, I can hardly begin. I'll leave it at that.

suicide is a selfish act commited by the person who killed themselves as theres always to choices in life...they never stopped to think who it may hurt.

There isn't always a choice. Trust me. And when you truly hit rock bottom, other people aren't as important as you. Nor should they be. It's an individual act, true, but to say it's wrong because it hurts others is a bit too superficial. There's a lot more behind it.

This may be a bad analogy but I think it's just like the people who sued McDonald's because they got fat. Ya the bullies may have contributed to the person's reason for suicide, but they didn't force the person to kill themselves. The school or the parents are not even close to being able to be blamed.

The bullies -do- contribute, because they're the ones who can truly push someone to not only think of suicide, but to actually commit it. And your comparison is faulty. You can't compare a bully who pushes someone over the limit to mcdonalds being sued because the allegedly make people fat. They're not comparable. In the first situation, there is only one person to blame, and then there's the one who is harmed by it, severely so. In the second, there is neither someone to blame nor is there a genuine victim.

The child is at fault.

Understood, bullying does effect the bullied, but how the bullied reacts, too, contributes to the events that later occur. Unless someone is torturing another and asking them to kill themselves, suicide really is your own doing. It isn't murder - it's suicide.

I partly agree. I agree with the first part, but the second one I disagree with.
I think it's not murder, no. But suicide isn't -solely- the fault of the one who commits it. That's like blaming a car for crashing into a tree because a drunk person was driving it.


Example, two "victims" may be shoved daily, called names and ignored. Victim A shrugs and laughs it off, "bullies" get bored. Victim B may cry, say how life sucks and kill themselves. How we react to situations affect the outcome.

Agreed with this.


Every now and then I blame my father for my eating disorders and my mother for my cutting, but I can't. They didn't -make- me do it. I made me do it. We need to take responsibility for our own actions. Granted, bullying may be one of the reasons, but it isn't the definite and only cause.

I understand what you're saying, but there's a difference between cutting and committing suicide. Both are absolutely terrible, you know I realize this. Still, the comparison isn't correct.


A "bully" is also subjective. As are victims. When we think of bullies, we often think of big, nasty, sociopathic kids who shove, punch and lock kids in lockers. But come on, siblings who beat, insult and ridicule you every day can be considered bullies. Parents who neglect, hit and embarrass their kids probably can, too. Hell, a kid who flashes his middle finger at your face every day could be considered a bully.

Agreed with this.


When I was coping with anorexia, tons of people spread rumours about me, called me names, tripped me, stuck nasty things in my locker and ignored me. Not that I really gave much of a fuck, well, I did. It made me feel even shittier than I already did but it was just a nagging pinch in comparison to my own mind and body. Hurrr, walking around with 50 pounds on me kind of hurt. "Kind of."

Thing is, I'm not dead, but if I did commit suicide, it would've been because of my eating disorders, not because of the bullying.

That's because you are an exceptionally strong individual, for which you know you have my eternal respect. But sometimes, bullying can be the cause of someone's suicide, and when it is, the bullies are partly responsible. The individual eventually makes the decision, but the bullies will have an effect on this decision, so to say they're not to blame doesn't quite cover it.

Parents and teachers often wish to pin the blame on something they can understand. They don't want to think their shitty parenting skills, them pressuring their kids, scolding, neglecting or whatever it is contributed to the death of their child. They don't want to see that perhaps their -kid might have had a problem-. It could've been their own minds causing them the most anguish.

Partly agreed with this. If a bully isn't responsible for one's suicide that the bully has pushed one to, why would the parents be for not noticing something was wrong? I agree with the first part. The parents can cause more anguish than many can imagine, as you know I know to be true more than most.

Often my disgust for myself hurts me more than the actual sexual abuse. Sure, the sexual abuse probably led to the self-hate. But my process of thought made me feel this way. I could very well ask for help. It's not like the law is stopping me. Haha. Get it? No? Okay.

I understand and know the feeling.

Bullying is a contributing factor, but the bullied need to take responsibility for their own actions.

When it's too late, that won't help. "Taking responsibilty" isn't that easy, especially in the moment of their most desperate acts. Usually, when the moment arises to take responsibility, it is already too late. Sadly.

Anyway, what makes the adults think they can help? Often telling a teacher or guardian only makes it worse. You can't -force- someone to like someone else. If anything, the hostility will grow. Bullying prevention's great and all, but how about teaching kids how to cope and deal with hostility?

You can't force them, but doing something about bullying isn't necessarily implying that the bully needs to be -forced- to like the one they bully. But especially if the bully has problems of his/her own, talking about it can definitely help. And you can teach kids how to cope and deal with hostility, but when they reach rock bottom, that won't count for anything. It will just lower the chance of them actually getting there. Which is a good thing, of course, but it's not a solution when someone is already suicidal and being pushed over the edge.

Fact is, you're gonna meet tons of douchebags in your life. You're gonna be physically, mentally and perhaps even sexually abused. No one is completely liked by absolutely everyone. Being a member of society is like being a politician. No matter what you do, you're gonna be hated.

Agreed with that.

What is the point of sueing schools or parents? How does that solve anything at all? Can adults really control all teenagers? Who does everything their mother or teacher says? How in the world is getting them to pay you tons of money gonna bring your dead child back? How about you all just sit down and talk about how you're gonna make things better for others from here on? Supporting each other through this massive loss?

Agreed with that.

Next they'll be blaming the parents of the best friends of all these people who committed suicide!

That's a bit of a rash conclusion, though.

I'm truly sorry if I've offended anyone who's been bullied. It's complete -shit- and I'm sure you feel like hell. Believe me, I understand. Acknowledge how you feel, know this won't last forever. Do what you think feels right. No, not suicide. It isn't the only way out. It isn't even a way out. You have your whole life ahead of you, when you're their boss, it'll bite them in the ass. Don't have to be a victim. Be a survivor.

The only real way to conquer bullying is to rise above it.

Agreed with this. It's sound advice.

Suicide may be your own doing, but it isn't necessarily your own fault. Individuals react differently to different situations and there's no way you can really pin the suicide blame on somebody who feels as if they are being mentally tortured - extreme emotional states of mind generally aren't subject to logical rationing.

Agreed with this wholeheartedly. "Those who deny reason, cannot be conquered by it." -Ayn Rand.

Most sincerely,
Robert.