Helping a friend?

[kcyred]

(I'm new here and this might be long, so bare with me. Also I can put a "too long; didn't read" at the end of this).

So I came here hoping I could get some help and advice. I am not sure if there is a better section this should be posted in, but if so, it can be moved.

First off, I read the sticky post on helping someone with an eating disorder. It is helpful. So thanks to Amaryllis who wrote it (even though I don't know who you are).

But... one of my really close friends has an eating disorder. It has been going since mid-July of this year. I've only known her since January but we've become extremely close. (And I did at one point develop feelings for her and am not sure if I still have them. But it is also weird because she is like a sister to me too). She has been going through a lot of emotional issues, as have I. She has more or less denied the fact she has had depression/been depressed for the last five years and hid her feelings away (she called it being "distant"). Finally she started to open up to me this past summer. Finding out her story, it would seem she has been making progress. What is hard is getting through to her.

I have it hard sometimes as I have anxiety and I self-harm. Also, I have been suicidal. My brother (who is her friend as well) helps me all the time (and her too). So I am getting better the best I can as well. Both myself and my friend are seeing counselors and she sometimes sees a dietitian (though she doesn't think there is a point or it is working).

She also self-harms, has a non-verbal learning disorder so her social skills/development are different which can make it hard for her, has insomnia (like myself), has had suicidal thoughts, and has this eating disorder.

I am trying to understand it. I really am. I have talked to some of my friends who struggled with eating disorders before and wanted to know what their mindset was in order to help her. Sometimes I will accidentally say things like "calories don't matter" in an attempt to be logical. It still never works and I am trying to watch myself on saying those type of things. But it seems like whatever I say doesn't mean much. (The only thing I find to help is that I am trying to make her comfortable with food. If she is contemplating eating a few things, I ask which will make her feel better in the end and cause less guilt/regret. That seems to be helping a bit). I really want her to know how beautiful, kindhearted, sweet, and caring she is. She honestly is one of the most amazing people I have ever met in my life and has helped me through so much. She is so giving. But sometimes that lets her problems fall to the wayside. I try to get through to her but nothing works. I can't tell her how beautiful she is without her refuting it multiple times. She does not like the way she looks and I find her beautiful. She is at a normal weight but doesn't see it as enough. Her self-esteem, self-confidence, and feelings of self-worth are low. She doesn't seem to think she has any good qualities in her. She doesn't think she is good enough for anyone, even herself. She doesn't think myself and my brother (who are the closest people to her other than her best friend who lives in another state, as she has told us) deserve her and that we should have a better, more "normal" friend. She always has the fear that myself and my brother are not going to be around anymore, that we are going to get tired of her, or leave. She always feels like she will get hurt in some way. She has asked me what it feels like to be "happy", as she cannot remember what it feels like. I don't quite know what that feels like either. And I am not sure how to explain it.

These feelings of hopelessness, worthlessness, and despair makes me sad. I really want to help her but I do not know how. I am trying everything. I just want to be able to help her see all that is good in her. Sometimes I don't know if being there for her is enough. I never know when something I say or do might set her off. I do not want her to have so many ups and downs or recoveries and relapses. I just want her to get help. It was hard enough getting her to go to a counselor and a dietitian. I just really want more for her in life and wish she would see all that she is. She has so many wonderful qualities about her but she can't see or accept them. I am not going anywhere or leaving her at all.

I just want to know how I am able to help her without hurting her. I would never want to do that, ever. I just don't want to see her hurting anymore. So what can I do?

Thank you in advance.

This was long, so... tl;dr: A wonderful friend of mine is hurting. She self-harms, has depression, and an eating disorder. I really want her to see the good in herself but she doesn't. I don't want to see her hurting anymore. I want to know how to help her. What do I do?

[Kaius]

I completely understand where you're coming from and I admire the fact you're willing to do this, its going to take a lot out of you but the end result will be worth it. My girlfriend suffers from an eating disorder and depression including self harming and suicidal thoughts. The first thing you've got to take into account is the fact they can't see what we can and in a short answer there isn't a whole lot we as friends/partners or family can really do about it ourselves except be there for them when they need us. When they need to talk or they need some guidance or advice we're there. Sometimes they may need talking out of things which isn't at all easy.

I've managed to persuade my girlfriend to get some medical help on several occasions, though sometimes the places aren't very forth coming with help if she isn't honest about it so you may need to go along with her in case she needs some support when it comes to explaining whats wrong. Maybe try to get her to write a letter. But it all depends on whether she knows she has a problem or not, some don't see it as having a problem, they don't see it as unhealthy.

As well as giving her some support you're also going to need it. Its really not an easy thing to see happen and sometimes its not going to go the way you want it to. Sometimes I've found when it gets particularly difficult my girlfriend will resort to acting as though theres not a problem again and in all honesty it makes me want to just go and bury myself somewhere until its over but it won't help at all if i do that. Is there anyone you can talk to? Maybe someone going through a similar thing or anything? Maybe even just another close family friend.

As I said, in short there is nothing you can majorly do to change it yourself. Its down to her at the end of the day whether she wants the help or support for it but you can try and persuade her as I did but thats going to come as equally challenging for both of you. Be there for her, let her come to you when she needs to talk or needs some help and try to help her see from your side. Try to keep things as positive as possible whenever you can because the good times are going to be what helps you the most as well as bringing you closer together.

If you need to talk at all you can always PM or VM me and I'll try to help as best I can. I know its not easy and it may help talking to someone in the same boat as i said above. I wish you both the best.

[Amaryllis]

Hey sweetie. Firstly, thank you so much for reading my sticky and you're very welcome :)

What you need to understand is: you have your own problems to cope with as well. Your own pain, your own battles, tears, scars, anger, thoughts and life. You -need- to put yourself first. Whatever you do, do not neglect yourself. Who's going to help her when your strength disappears and you just tumble down?

Her pain her -her pain-. You can't take on your problems because no matter what, they're hers and hers alone. In the end, only she can choose to come out of this, only she can change how she feels. Please don't take on your troubles as your own because that truly helps no one. All you will end up doing is set yourself up for misery as well.

Are you suited to help her? Can you? Can you cope with an extra load of stress? How are you dealing with your own problems? Are you a good role model? You need to ask yourself these things, if the answer is no, it's better to just stand by her, encourage her to get professional help but don't personally attempt to help her through her eating disorders.

I suffered from several eating disorders as well, I got through on my own. Of course, that isn't often possible for the majority. I recommend you stand by her. Let her know she isn't alone and that you won't leave her, no matter what. I still feel sick and sad when I think about how all my friends left me during that period of time when I was extremely skinny, I looked like I was going to die. In fact, I was.

I would have given anything to have had someone there then, just a friend. I didn't even have to have someone who knew about my eating disorders. I just wanted someone who didn't leave. Having someone who is willing to help is invaluable. It makes the journey through to recovery so much easier and a lot less painful.

Understood, many people with eating disorders push people away or they just don't see the value in your relationship, Don't take that to heart, sweetheart. Eating disorders tend to bring the worst in people. It has -nothing- to do with whatever you are.

I grew up and am growing up in a rather hostile environment. I know my relatives dislike me and feel that I'm a burden. My aunt has called me pregnant and ugly my entire life. My father sexually abuses and basically, what I'm getting at is, my self-appreciation's pretty much non-existent.

You're doing an excellent job of trying to convince her she's beautiful and great on the inside but things like this take some time. When you create a pattern in your head of "I'm ugly, fat, stupid, useless, hopeless. I'm better off dead. I should kill myself. I'm ugly, fat, stupid, useless, hopeless. I'm-" You get my point. It becomes an ingrained way of thinking and that can be very hard to break.

Continue what you're doing but focus on the qualities in her that have nothing to do with her appearance. Show her that how she looks really doesn't matter at all. Remind her of all the innate qualities she holds that make her beautiful. Tell her you genuinely do not care how she looks and no one who matters does, either.

This is her battle to fight. You can urge her on and point her in the right direction, but in the end, only her own strength can pull her through. Good luck, honey. It's really great what you're doing and I wish you both all the best. Take care of yourself as well. If you ever need anything, I'm but a message away.

Love.

[Fiction]

That description of your friend could honestly be about me, we sound very similar.

As has been said above always be there when she needs to talk. However little that sounds it is really the key thing, and can be the difference between life and death.

It sounds like you have the right idea, trying to convince her that she is worth your time, but whatever you do don't stop doing that. She'll deny it, and fight it, and it will seem hopeless, but really all she's asking is that you don't give up on her. The more you say it the more it'll sink in.

This is going to be something that will be almost impossible for you to solve on your own. You can help in a supporting role, as i'm sure you do, but she is going to need professional help. Try and persuade her to get help, maybe even go with her. She'll probably try and play down her problems, especially to a professional, so as Aaron said, try getting her to write a letter with how she's really feeling.

It's going to take a lot out of you looking after someone like this. So make sure you're looking after yourself too alright? If she sees that you're suffering because of her it's only going to lower her self-esteem more, and i'm sure she wouldn't want you to suffer because of her.

If you need anyone to talk to i'm always here :)

[kcyred]

Kaius: I guess the best I have is myself, who is going through a few similar things. Or my brother, who is not quite going through things as severe, just normal problems (if anything). But he is always there to listen and talk when I need him. I tell him most things anyway.

Sometimes she does actually acknowledge there is a problem, which is always a step in the right direction. But thanks for the quick reply.

Amaryllis: I do know that I have my own problems. I am trying not to neglect myself. I don't even think I do. It is my friend that does. She helps everyone else and neglects herself all of the time, and it is sad to see. She has told me that she likes helping people so much because it is good to do so and she gets satisfaction out of it but also so she can forget about her own problems. My brother helps me through everything I don't know I can get through. He is there for me in the best way possible so I know I always have support. I just want to be able to support her more. I hope what I am doing is enough.

My friend said that she doesn't want any of her problems to go so far as pushing me or my brother away. But sometimes I fear that it will. I will always push my way back into her life though and let her know I am here. I just don't want her to fade away or feel like she is disappearing (which she has felt for so long). (She said she has pushed most people away but doesn't want that to happen to my brother and I. She wants us to stay around, even if we are the only ones -- also including her best friend. And we will. We aren't going anywhere).

Thank you for your response and that great sticky post of yours.

Fiction: She has fought my help before but eventually gave in. Back in October she went to the hospital the first time. After that experience she told me that she always thought if she ended up in the hospital people would care about her more, but after going, it wasn't that she wanted people to care more, she just didn't want anyone to care any less. It wasn't that myself or my brother care any more than we usually do, it is just that we never left her. (I was not able to go with her to the hospital but instead ran over to my brothers room and had to wake him up when we was asleep after taking cough medicine, as he wasn't feeling well). It was a revelation she was happy to make and I am happy that she figured that out.

I know I can't handle it on my own but I just want to help in the ways I can. She protested and denied having a problem in the beginning/early on, but I finally got her to see a counselor (as my post said). She has been going a few times and is going to go again. She is planning on taking a depression screening test just to get diagnosed, as she hasn't. She told me on the Beck Depression Inventory she did a self-test and scored 37 at her lowest and 43 at her highest out of 63 (that being extreme depression). She has also gone to the dietitian once. But does not think that is working and has her older sister who is studying to become a nutritionist, so I hope she reaches out to her.

I find it extreme progress that I got her to go to counseling. I went with her to her first session to be there for moral support and just to make sure she was truthful about how she was feeling. It went well and she agreed to go back. Right now she doesn't see much of a point to go, also as the counselor didn't seem to validate her feelings, but she is pushing through on that front.

I know it will take a lot out of me to help her but I am willing to do so. She is important to me and I don't want to lose her. As much as I am going to watch out her for, I am going to watch out for me. Sometimes I think she feels that her problems are hurting me. I've felt it the other way around but don't think that anymore as she has never failed to be there for me. I just hope she doesn't think I'm hurting so much because of her. I just feel sad when I can't help her.

Also on the letter thing, she doesn't talk about her feelings much. She writes everything down. Actually her writing things down and then trying to find a way to tell me she has been feeling bad was how I found out. She danced around the subject with me and my brother until we figured it out and read what she had written. It was a big step for her to let us in like that. She has written every once in a while about her feelings and expressed what she has been going through. It has helped. She even showed one of her writings to the counselor.

I don't want to push it, but I may talk to her again, to see how she is feeling, and what we can do next.

Thanks. Also that's weird how you both seem alike. Interesting.

Edit: Another thing that can make this hard, which I thought should be added in here, is that sometimes it is hard to get her to eat when I am not even eating. A few years ago I got really sick and could not keep any food down. (I don't have an eating disorder). My stomach just rejected it which makes it hard to eat sometimes. So it's hard when I cannot physically eat because of when I was sick and trying to get her to eat because she just refuses to.

[Fiction]

[Fiction: She has fought my help before but eventually gave in. Back in October she went to the hospital the first time. After that experience she told me that she always thought if she ended up in the hospital people would care about her more, but after going, it wasn't that she wanted people to care more, she just didn't want anyone to care any less. It wasn't that myself or my brother care any more than we usually do, it is just that we never left her. (I was not able to go with her to the hospital but instead ran over to my brothers room and had to wake him up when we was asleep after taking cough medicine, as he wasn't feeling well). It was a revelation she was happy to make and I am happy that she figured that out.

I know I can't handle it on my own but I just want to help in the ways I can. She protested and denied having a problem in the beginning/early on, but I finally got her to see a counselor (as my post said). She has been going a few times and is going to go again. She is planning on taking a depression screening test just to get diagnosed, as she hasn't. She told me on the Beck Depression Inventory she did a self-test and scored 37 at her lowest and 43 at her highest out of 63 (that being extreme depression). She has also gone to the dietitian once. But does not think that is working and has her older sister who is studying to become a nutritionist, so I hope she reaches out to her.

I find it extreme progress that I got her to go to counseling. I went with her to her first session to be there for moral support and just to make sure she was truthful about how she was feeling. It went well and she agreed to go back. Right now she doesn't see much of a point to go, also as the counselor didn't seem to validate her feelings, but she is pushing through on that front.

I know it will take a lot out of me to help her but I am willing to do so. She is important to me and I don't want to lose her. As much as I am going to watch out her for, I am going to watch out for me. Sometimes I think she feels that her problems are hurting me. I've felt it the other way around but don't think that anymore as she has never failed to be there for me. I just hope she doesn't think I'm hurting so much because of her. I just feel sad when I can't help her.

Also on the letter thing, she doesn't talk about her feelings much. She writes everything down. Actually her writing things down and then trying to find a way to tell me she has been feeling bad was how I found out. She danced around the subject with me and my brother until we figured it out and read what she had written. It was a big step for her to let us in like that. She has written every once in a while about her feelings and expressed what she has been going through. It has helped. She even showed one of her writings to the counselor.

I don't want to push it, but I may talk to her again, to see how she is feeling, and what we can do next.

Thanks. Also that's weird how you both seem alike. Interesting.

Edit: Another thing that can make this hard, which I thought should be added in here, is that sometimes it is hard to get her to eat when I am not even eating. A few years ago I got really sick and could not keep any food down. (I don't have an eating disorder). My stomach just rejected it which makes it hard to eat sometimes. So it hard when I cannot physically eat because of when I was sick and trying to get her to eat because she just refuses to.

My counselor was exactly the same. I've been referred to the same counselor twice, and i've seen him 4 times. I was also seen by a counselor while I was in hospital, and that is all the help i've got.

For me, the problem is that I play down my problems a lot. I know you said you went with her the first time, and that she's shown the counselor some of her writings, but maybe get her to write a specific letter to him, about how she's feeling in general. Maybe then if you read over it for her, so point out if she's missed anything? Don't pressure her to show the counselor anything she doesn't want too, but since you've already convinced her to see the counselor, i'm sure you can convince her to tell the truth more too?

Another thing you can do is see if she can see another counselor. I'm not sure how you go about this, but i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find out and a different counselor might be just what she needs.

I think you should try and talk to her again, if she's relecutant to talk then leave it, but from what you've said about her wanting people to care it may help her a lot.

As for the eating, I think that's a universal thing to do with eating disorders. I find it a hell of a lot harder to eat around people who aren't eating than people who are. I mean even when i'm in periods of recovery, I still can't eat around people who aren't eating. I guess it's a comfort knowing that if someone else is eating it must be alright? I guess if you're in situations where you can't eat, you should show her that other people are eating, and convince her that it's okay.

Another thing you could perhaps do, is introduce her here. There's a lot of people going through similar things here and it might help her to talk to them. Of course if this is your place to vent etc, then you need your own space and privacy too, so don't neglect that.

You're doing something not many people would do, helping her like that, and it's a credit to you. It'll be something she'll be very grateful for now, and in the future :)

And yeah.. it's really quite scary how similar I seem to be to your friend...

[kcyred]

My counselor was exactly the same. I've been referred to the same counselor twice, and i've seen him 4 times. I was also seen by a counselor while I was in hospital, and that is all the help i've got.

For me, the problem is that I play down my problems a lot. I know you said you went with her the first time, and that she's shown the counselor some of her writings, but maybe get her to write a specific letter to him, about how she's feeling in general. Maybe then if you read over it for her, so point out if she's missed anything? Don't pressure her to show the counselor anything she doesn't want too, but since you've already convinced her to see the counselor, i'm sure you can convince her to tell the truth more too?

Another thing you can do is see if she can see another counselor. I'm not sure how you go about this, but i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find out and a different counselor might be just what she needs.

I think you should try and talk to her again, if she's relecutant to talk then leave it, but from what you've said about her wanting people to care it may help her a lot.

As for the eating, I think that's a universal thing to do with eating disorders. I find it a hell of a lot harder to eat around people who aren't eating than people who are. I mean even when i'm in periods of recovery, I still can't eat around people who aren't eating. I guess it's a comfort knowing that if someone else is eating it must be alright? I guess if you're in situations where you can't eat, you should show her that other people are eating, and convince her that it's okay.

Another thing you could perhaps do, is introduce her here. There's a lot of people going through similar things here and it might help her to talk to them. Of course if this is your place to vent etc, then you need your own space and privacy too, so don't neglect that.

You're doing something not many people would do, helping her like that, and it's a credit to you. It'll be something she'll be very grateful for now, and in the future :)

And yeah.. it's really quite scary how similar I seem to be to your friend...


The counselor she has been going to has been good for the most part. The only thing she [the counselor] did say was that my friend was not "clinically depressed" which made my friend feel like her feelings weren't real or like they were illegitimate. She told me that she feels she has to mess herself up more in order to get help. Which she knows is not true and I tell her it's not but she still feels that way sometimes.

The writing she showed the counselor was pretty much a rundown of all that she has been feeling the past few years. It was a good summary. I think she was the one who brought it up that she should show it to the counselor and I told her that would be a good idea. Maybe it would help. The counselor did read it and told her that her writing just felt very alone. That was in the same session she said that she was not "clinically depressed" but then went on to tell her that, yes, some of the way she was feeling correlated to depression.

I will have to work on the eating around other people thing. And it is not just me eating or not. It is other people in general. She says she only feels comfortable eating around my brother and I. She told me that at one point she told another 'friend' (sort of), who she doesn't hang out with much and always is over dramatic about that fact, she would get dinner with him one night. But after that her anxiety was really high and she made up an excuse and had to cancel on him. She had dinner with my brother and I instead. (She was also reluctant to eat with this 'friend' as she hadn't gotten dinner with us in three nights). A night when my brother could not make it to dinner and another friend she hadn't seen in awhile asked to get dinner with her, she declined, so she could eat with me/I wouldn't be alone, and she'd be more comfortable.

By the way, we just started college too. And a good thing is we have most of our meals together. Other than all of Tuesday and Thursday breakfast (and unless we decide to sleep in a bit before class or work on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday, which is not usual for us) we get every meal together. So that is about three meals a day, except for two on the weekends. She doesn't eat at all of them but we are working on that. She at least accompanies me and/or my brother to them. I think she is trying in that respect.

And thanks. I know most people aren't quick to help. But most just don't understand. I am trying my best. And I want to help her. I don't know if I'll show her this place or not as she's not big on using sites like these.

[kcyred]

Not sure if I should just add this to my last post or not. I'm not quite familiar with how this all works.

But...

I am having trouble getting her to eat in the mornings. She eats more so at night and usually skips meals in the daytime. If we are late getting breakfast, I will get food to-go, but she won't. It will only be until lunch she will eat. Or like today, we both slept in as we don't have classes because of Thanksgiving break (which has been nice for us), and got food around 2pm. She didn't find anything she liked so she only ate today after 6pm. She said even with all of the "junk" she ate (she baked cookies and brownies today for me and my brother and had some too), she was still under the amount of calories the dietitian recommended for her. She said something like it was just over half of what was recommended or something like that. (She ate salad for dinner and I had her promise me she'd eat one of her baked goods. I didn't like how little she was eating or how late it was and that she hadn't eaten most of the day. She agreed to eat what she had baked though, which was good, and actually followed through on that, which is step in the right direction, as she barely does that, ever.)

I don't know what to do about this fact. Can I do anything? Or do I just need to be there for her in general?
Thanks.