Truth about pornography

[Blank]

Dead porn stars memorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk

Ex Porn Star's Amazing Story (1/5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ddPHfYDkDE

HIV outbreaks in the porn industry

http://thepinkcross.org/another-hiv-outbreak-porn-industry



KEY FINDINGS ON THE EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY

THE FAMILY AND PORNOGRAPHY

-Married men who are involved in pornography feel less satisfied with their conjugal relations and less emotionally attached to their wives. Wives notice and are upset by the difference.

-Pornography use is a pathway to infidelity and divorce, and is frequently a major factor in these family disasters.

-Among couples affected by one spouse's addiction, two-thirds experience a loss of interest in sexual intercourse.

-Both spouses perceive pornography viewing as tantamount to infidelity.

-Pornography viewing leads to a loss of interest in good family relations.

THE INDIVIDUAL AND PORNOGRAPHY

-Pornography is addictive, and neuroscientists are beginning to map the biological substrate of this addiction.

-Users tend to become desensitized to the type of pornorgraphy they use, become bored with it, and then seek more perverse forms of pornography.

-Men who view pornography regularly have a higher tolerance for abnormal sexuality, including rape, sexual aggression, and sexual promiscuity.

-Prolonged consumption of pornography by men produces stronger notions of women as commodities or as "sex objects."

-Pornography engenders greater sexual permissiveness, which in turn leads to a greater risk of out-of-wedlock births and STDs. These, in turn, lead to still more weaknesses and debilities.

-Child-sex offenders are more likely to view pornography regularly or to be involved in its distribution.

OTHER EFFECTS OF PORNOGRAPHY
-Many adolescents who view pornography initially feel shame, diminished self-confidence, and sexual uncertainty, but these feelings quickly shift to unadulterated enjoyment with regular viewing.

-The presence of sexually oriented businesses significantly harms the surrounding community, leading to increases in crime and decreases in property values.

-The main defenses against pornography are close family life, a good marriage and good relations between parents and children, coupled with deliberate parental monitoring of Internet use. Traditionally, government has kept a tight lid on sexual traffic and businesses, but in matters of pornography that has waned almost completely, except where child pornography is concerned. Given the massive, deleterious individual, marital, family, and social effects of pornography, it is time for citizens, communities, and government to reconsider their laissez-faire approach.


http://www.frc.org/pornography-effects

My stand is that porn is not a harmless pastime

[Amaryllis]

First off, it's nearly impossible to ban pornography. You will still have underground pornographers and that's even worse because we want what we can't get.

Wether you like it or not, being a pornstar is their job. Would you take away the jobs of any other occupation? What right do you have to do that, anyway? If pornography was banned, tons of americans, especially, would be left unemployed. What occupational opportunities would they have left? Few people are willing to hire ex-pornstars.

Pornography appeases sexual desires. Without it, rape cases would skyrocket and you'd have a lot more minors having sex. If people don't have porn to jack off to, who are they gonna turn to(other than themselves). That's right. The sex they're attracted to. A lot of kids -need- porn, what with puberty and whatnot.

Porn = Money. The porn industry is a huge source of income for a lot of countries *cough* america *cough* When you watch pornography, you're boosting up your national economy :D

Pornography benefits pornstars as well, it makes them feel better about themselves and it gives them a purpose. What's so bad about that? This is like abortion. It's the woman's/pornstar's choice. It's their bodies, minds and lives. They can do whatever they want with it.

People will die. Well, that's an exaggeration but you get my drift. People need porn, especially kids and if you don't give them what they want, you'll get riots, protests and strikes. People -will be mad-.

[Sleepwalking]

Oh go away!
What haven't you bashed yet?
Pornography is harmless. Half of the things you said aren't true.

"-Men who view pornography regularly have a higher tolerance for abnormal sexuality, including rape, sexual aggression, and sexual promiscuity."
Most men in the world watch porn. That statement is rather invalid, unless you are saying all men are rapists.

"-Many adolescents who view pornography initially feel shame, diminished self-confidence, and sexual uncertainty, but these feelings quickly shift to unadulterated enjoyment with regular viewing."
People don't view everything in the same way. The feeling a teen feels depends on their original feelings of what you described, like already having no confidence. Teens need porn, otherwise they wouldn't function. It's part of maturing.

Porn Stars choose to do the job they do. Who are you to say they shouldn't be able to do it?

You're spewing this out without any solid sources.

[Blank]

Sigh... Did you guys even watch the video?
They earn money yes, but how do pornstars feel?
How could you say that it's harmless and even helpful when thousands of pornstars die every year?
I'm sure they could find jobs to help them slowly integrate themselves into society. Pizza delivery? Cashier?
Most pornstars do not even choose to be pornstars in the first place. It's in the videos that you did not watch.

And porn appeasing sexual desires is simply an excuse. I'm aware that you can't run away from it, with all the media influences these days. But wet dreams are there for a reason. Also, though I don't approve of it, what's wrong with masturbating without porn? And by the way, not every country in the world has kids that talk and think about sex 24/7

[Sleepwalking]

-snip-

Who says we teens think of sex 24/7? BS.
Porn slavery exists, but I was talking about willing pornstars. Those "videos" are illegal things, so no need to bring them up at all.
They are entitled to do whatever job they like.
"wet dreams are there for a reason" So, masturbation is wrong now? That's also stupid thinking. You probably don't even know what wet dreams are.

[Amaryllis]

They earn money yes, but how do pornstars feel?
If they want to do it, it's their choice. They aren't obligated to. And some pornstars become "hooked" on the sex and hey, it pays good money, people like it. Why not?

How could you say that it's harmless and even helpful when thousands of pornstars die every year?
And 65 million people in the US alone have STDs. They could still have tons of sex if they weren't pornstars. So why not make some money out of it?

I'm sure they could find jobs to help them slowly integrate themselves into society. Pizza delivery? Cashier?
Porn star to pizza deliverer.

Huh.

http://i.qkme.me/4yoi.jpg

Most pornstars do not even choose to be pornstars in the first place. It's in the videos that you did not watch.
Okay. I watched it. As someone who has fucktard parents and a father who sexually abuses me, uh... I'm not gonna be a pornstar. [-]I know you guys want me to be, though.[/-] Yes, they do have hard lives. But pornography isn't the -cause- of their pain. It could be just how they dealt with their pain. All those drug overdoses or suicides most likely resulted from a deeper inner conflict. Pornography could be helping them.

That ex-pornstar is one. You can't see into the minds of all of them. Yes, famous pornstars generally have tough lives or have had tough lives and maybe they -do- need help turning away from the sex industry. However, in the end, the choice belongs to them.

Sometimes people have sex to distract themselves and escape from all the hell in the world. If they're going to continue doing that, why not make money out of it? Maybe to them, that's how they are loved.

And porn appeasing sexual desires is simply an excuse. I'm aware that you can't run away from it, with all the media influences these days.
Media influence? It's a natural human instinct. Living things reproduce. What's the purpose of sexually active animals? To get horny and fuck each other!

But wet dreams are there for a reason.
They're dreams. They're only as real as you can imagine them to be. And who actually remembers their dreams? Wet dreams aren't enough for most people. And not -all- women experience them.

Also, though I don't approve of it, what's wrong with masturbating without porn? And by the way, not every country in the world has kids that talk and think about sex 24/7
And you can generalise an entire country...?

[Blank]

And 65 million people in the US alone have STDs. They could still have tons of sex if they weren't pornstars. So why not make some money out of it?

yea, thanks to porn. Porn that encourages pre-marital sex as well as spreads sexually transmitted diseases within the industry itself. Would YOU put yourself at risk of having a sexually transmitted disease for the sake of money? I don't think so.


Porn star to pizza deliverer.

Huh.

image (http://i.qkme.me/4yoi.jpg)


It isn't. What's wrong with being a pizza deliverer? It's a job that isn't very taxing, allows the pornstars who have been through IMMENSE trauma to interact with people without fear of them being interested in sex and sex alone, as well as allow them to pick up education at the same time. Of course that was only an example, if they're skilled in other areas, they could pick up other jobs too.


Okay. I watched it. As someone who has fucktard parents and a father who sexually abuses me, uh... I'm not gonna be a pornstar. [-]I know you guys want me to be, though.[/-] Yes, they do have hard lives. But pornography isn't the -cause- of their pain. It could be just how they dealt with their pain. All those drug overdoses or suicides most likely resulted from a deeper inner conflict. Pornography could be helping them.

I'm truly sorry about that and I'm glad that you don't want to be a pornstar :)
That's genuine. Some do, I believe. It helps them escape the pain. But pornography isn't the answer. There are many ways one can deal with pain. Using pornography to deal with a sexual past only makes things worse.


That ex-pornstar is one. You can't see into the minds of all of them. Yes, famous pornstars generally have tough lives or have had tough lives and maybe they -do- need help turning away from the sex industry. However, in the end, the choice belongs to them.
[QUOTE=Amaryllis;1508439]

She has been in the porn industry and therefore knows the people there better than you do. If you watch the rest of her talk, you'll she that she talks about how pornstars desperately want out of the industry. I'm sure you'll want out if you were in there too. When you have sex as many times a day as they do, smeared in faeces, blood and bodily fluids, sex isn't enjoyable. It's torture.

[QUOTE=Amaryllis;1508439]
Media influence? It's a natural human instinct. Living things reproduce. What's the purpose of sexually active animals? To get horny and fuck each other!
[QUOTE=Amaryllis;1508439]

Yes media influence. Sex has been gradually creeping into entertainment and has gotten to the point where everything is ok. Of course, a sexual drive was intended for reproduction. Sex is meant to be an intimate affair between a man and a woman, a celebration of their love. Since when did animals dictate our morals? You'd scratch your butt in public like a monkey?

[QUOTE=Amaryllis;1508439]
Wet dreams aren't enough for most people.


The more you get the more you'll need. It's a vicious cycle. The need is never satisfied. You'll just end up feeling empty


And you can generalise an entire country...?

Not exactly. But when 51% of a country's teenagers aren't virgins.. and those are just statistics, I'm sure there are many more unreported ones...

[kenoloor]

yea, thanks to porn. Porn that encourages pre-marital sex as well as spreads sexually transmitted diseases within the industry itself. Would YOU put yourself at risk of having a sexually transmitted disease for the sake of money? I don't think so.

Do you even know how much STD Testing goes on in the porn industry?
The Adult Production Safety & Health Services (https://aphss.org/) is just an example of a service that provides testing for performers and information for otherwise.
I'd argue your other points, but I'm too lazy. What Faith said!!

[Genghis Khan]

Prolonged consumption of pornography by men produces stronger notions of women as commodities or as "sex objects."

Anyone who uses porn to judge the natural behaviour of women probably doesn't even know their ass to their elbow, I don't particularly believe the acting in porn videos can actually lead people to think that that is what women are like. Especially the ones nowadays.

[Blank]

Do you even know how much STD Testing goes on in the porn industry?
The Adult Production Safety & Health Services (https://aphss.org/) is just an example of a service that provides testing for performers and information for otherwise.
I'd argue your other points, but I'm too lazy. What Faith said!!

That's just for show. Do you think they'd actually follow through with all those procedures? They're just interested in money. The people who manage the porn industry I mean.

[Amaryllis]

yea, thanks to porn. Porn that encourages pre-marital sex as well as spreads sexually transmitted diseases within the industry itself. Would YOU put yourself at risk of having a sexually transmitted disease for the sake of money? I don't think so.
What's wrong with pre-marital sex? Sex =/= Love

You don't need to be in the porn industry to have casual sex. And people can make money out of it if they want to. Why do you think we have willing prostitutes? Because it earns them good money, amongst other reasons.

It isn't. What's wrong with being a pizza deliverer? It's a job that isn't very taxing, allows the pornstars who have been through IMMENSE trauma to interact with people without fear of them being interested in sex and sex alone, as well as allow them to pick up education at the same time. Of course that was only an example, if they're skilled in other areas, they could pick up other jobs too.
Porn star to pizza deliverer... I'm pretty sure porn stars earn a lot more and... Ah, never mind. *facedesk*

I'm truly sorry about that and I'm glad that you don't want to be a pornstar :)
Nawwww. I just want to kill myself ^_^

That's genuine. Some do, I believe. It helps them escape the pain. But pornography isn't the answer. There are many ways one can deal with pain. Using pornography to deal with a sexual past only makes things worse.
Yeah, bro. Like heroin, cutting, smoking, drinking, starving, beating people up, burning, head-banging, taking your pain out on your kids. Oh yeah. Because that is -so- much better.

She has been in the porn industry and therefore knows the people there better than you do.
Never said I did. I just don't think anyone but them has the right to say what they should or shouldn't do. We don't own them. Their lives are their own, they can do what they want with it.

If you watch the rest of her talk, you'll she that she talks about how pornstars desperately want out of the industry. I'm sure you'll want out if you were in there too. When you have sex as many times a day as they do, smeared in faeces, blood and bodily fluids, sex isn't enjoyable. It's torture.
Okay, I see your point there. Okay, you definitely have a point. Pornography can be harmful, but eradicating it just isn't possible.

Sex is meant to be an intimate affair between a man and a woman, a celebration of their love.
It doesn't necessarily have to be. It can be fun and pleasurable.

Since when did animals dictate our morals?
Uh... Since we were and are part of the animalia family?

You'd scratch your butt in public like a monkey?
Some people actually do.

The more you get the more you'll need. It's a vicious cycle. The need is never satisfied. You'll just end up feeling empty
They mostly likely already do feel empty. Look, she mentioned sex abuse victims, disruptive families, shitty childhoods and lives. Trust me, they would have desensitised ages ago. They're probably trying to turn sex into like a handshake. This is especially true for rape victims. When sex becomes nothing, rape becomes nothing, too.

As for crappy families, they most likely do not believe in this eternal, one true "love" bullshit. I know I don't. I completely understand when you say it's a vicious cycle. It was like that for me with my eating disorders and it still is with the self-harm. But I mean, you can get them professional help. But do you know the -number- of professionals you would need? The cost? They can't just get out of it.

And seriously. People need porn. They are not going to be happy if it goes away. It's just going to turn into an underground scam and everyone's going to be running off to make their own rape-porn.

Not exactly. But when 51% of a country's teenagers aren't virgins.. and those are just statistics, I'm sure there are many more unreported ones...
I think you're talking about asian countries generally having more virgins? As an asian myself, I can tell you it's because we're shit scared of our parents. You probably could make the virginity rate go up.

Just do it like my mum. Beat your kid up till she's bleeding, kick her out of the house for a few days, lock her in the closet or make her stand on a bucket of water for a few hours.

Y'all parents need to treat you the way you treat dog shit, yo! That's how you train a 4 year old. Look at my report card. Straight As. Why? Cause my parents might just kill me if I get a B :) Sex? Naw! My parents would skin me alive and hang me on a tree to die <3

Lesson of the day: Beat the crap out of your kids.

[Jean Poutine]

Anyone who uses porn to judge the natural behaviour of women probably doesn't even know their ass to their elbow, I don't particularly believe the acting in porn videos can actually lead people to think that that is what women are like. Especially the ones nowadays.

Some people still think pro wrestling is real.

[Clawhammer]

All in all, I am in agreement with the OP. Speaking as one who used to be addicted but got tired of it, it does a lot more harm than good in society, as the evidence which he supplied shows pretty damn well. I can't argue against it without sounding pitiful, desperate and blind. Whatever works for you folks, help yourselves, I still watch it again on occasion, so who am I to talk. But I'm sure as hell not proud of it.

[Genghis Khan]

Some people still think pro wrestling is real.

And, what does that tell us about them?

[Korashk]

You'll forgive me if I don't trust the word of The Pink Cross (a faith-based anti-pornography organization) and the Marriage and Religion Research Institute (an organization devoted to pushing the notion that weekly worship in God's house is the best way to make everything good) when it comes to matters of pornography and objective research.

[Amnesiac]

Dead porn stars memorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk

Ex Porn Star's Amazing Story (1/5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ddPHfYDkDE

HIV outbreaks in the porn industry

http://thepinkcross.org/another-hiv-outbreak-porn-industry

http://www.frc.org/pornography-effects

None of these sources are reliable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources) in any way. Your entire argument has been a failure from the start.

You're making overreaching, unfounded generalizations based on religious morality rather than secular logic. All of the societal effects you listed in your OP are pulled straight out the asses of a bunch of social conservative zealots and are completely unfounded in reality. People who watch porn do not rape and pillage. They are not deviants. This is what the ultra-right wing lobby would like you to believe, but they're clearly a bunch of fucking idiots. The pornography industry has existed for over 100 years and continues to be part of our society, which is a testament to our society's progression to liberalized values and acceptance of the individual's right to sexual freedom.

There has not been an unbiased, fully scientific study that shows pornography causes any of the things that you have listed. Your points are overblown to the point where they cannot possibly be considered true in any way.

Here's a source that's actually reliable. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-sunny-side-of-smut) Here's another. (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200801/vice-or-virtue-the-pros-pornography) Stop buying into all that right-wing dogma. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/10/tech/main6286110.shtml)

Edit: More? (http://classic.the-scientist.com/article/display/57169/;jsessionid=E72A182423134F730B895A19584A325F) And more? (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1178524.htm) Did I mention that your absurd connection between rape and porn is absolutely wrong? (http://anthonydamato.law.northwestern.edu/Adobefiles/porn.pdf)

The fact that people like you are content with returning to an age where sex is a taboo is disturbing.

[Jean Poutine]

And, what does that tell us about them?

That tells us that there are indeed people that believe IRL women = pornstars.

[kenoloor]

That tells us that there are indeed people that believe IRL women = pornstars.

Those people are in for some major disappointment on their honeymoon.

[Amaryllis]

That tells us that there are indeed people that believe IRL women = pornstars.

No. That just tells us we have dumbfucks in this world. And they probably live like this:

ouubuoHtrF4

And to them, I say..

http://troll.me/images/tomwopat/fuck-youre-dumb.jpg

[Hajara22]

so if watching porn makes you a rapist then listening to heavy metal music and watching scary movies must me how you become a killer...
Hmmmm no more scary movies for me,,, (NOT)

[BFG9001]

...the fuck did I just read?

[TheMatrix]

...the fuck did I just read?
I don't know what you just read. But I read spam, and it's what I quoted from you.
Keep it on topic or it will be locked.

[Jake.]

so if watching porn makes you a rapist then listening to heavy metal music and watching scary movies must me how you become a killer...
Hmmmm no more scary movies for me,,, (NOT)

Well actually, yes.

Do you know what the word "influence" means?
Just wondering.

[BFG9001]

Porn doesn't make you you a rapist. That's absurd. It helps people lose stress.

[Wakesetter03]

It is of my personal opinion that this is a load of bullshit, and having seen your other posts, happen to believe that you're going through the "rebel against society with ridiculous notions of self righteousness" stage.

Just my opinion though, I mean no personal offense.

[Rawwwrr]

Well actually, yes.

Do you know what the word "influence" means?
Just wondering.

You're implying that heavy metal influences people to be violent, and that likewise porn influences people to rape others?


http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/8/d/8de09-NotSureIfSerious.jpg

[Jake.]

You're implying that heavy metal influences people to be violent, and that likewise porn influences people to rape others?


image (http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/8/d/8de09-NotSureIfSerious.jpg)

I'm pretty sure i made myself clear.
But to sum it all up for you, Yes.

[Sage]

I'm pretty sure i made myself clear.
But to sum it all up for you, Yes.

Do you have anything up to back up your opinion or are you just going to keep asserting things with no factual basis?

[Jake.]

Porn doesn't make you you a rapist. That's absurd. It helps people lose stress.

It's a starting point, thus, it's an influence.
You can't tell me that serial rapists aren't constantly horny as hell. The only difference between a rapist and a horny kid, is the fact if they decide to take action on those thoughts.
That'll be like telling me that serial killers don't constantly think about killing people.

I never directly said porn made you a rapist.
I said it has an impact on your thoughts throughout life, it's an influence.

[Rawwwrr]

It's a starting point, thus, it's an influence.
You can't tell me that serial rapists aren't constantly horny as hell. The only difference between a rapist and a horny kid, is the fact if they decide to take action on those thoughts.
That'll be like telling me that serial killers don't constantly think about killing people.

I never directly said porn made you a rapist.
I said it has an impact on your thoughts throughout life, it's an influence.

So porn helps them relieve that 'horniness'. Also, you're quite clearly a moron. A rapist is completely different to a horny kid. Almost all teenagers are 'horny kids' and that doesn't mean they're all almost rapists. The difference is that, for whatever reason, mental disability or whatever, those who rape others lack many of the things that humans require, such as a logical thought process and compassion.

[Sage]

Also, you're quite clearly a moron.

Alright, alright: let's keep things civil here. This thread is on thin enough ice as it is. Any more spam or fighting language and it's being locked.

[Magus]

You're implying that heavy metal influences people to be violent, and that likewise porn influences people to rape others?
What about Noise Music?

mRUrvmyckUk

It's clearly far more violent than Heavy Metal. Heavy Metal is a joke compared to this. So, everyone who listens to Noise becomes a bdsm-pedophile-homo-rapist(just look at those titles)?

[Rawwwrr]

What about Noise Music?

mRUrvmyckUk

It's clearly far more violent than Heavy Metal. Heavy Metal is a joke compared to this. So, everyone who listens to Noise becomes a bdsm-pedophile-homo-rapist(just look at those titles)?

That's not really considered music is it? :P that's just radio interference... but I agree with the rest.


Alright, alright: let's keep things civil here. This thread is on thin enough ice as it is. Any more spam or fighting language and it's being locked.

Sorry, I got hot-headed. I'm a metal listener and I don't much like being told that my music means I'm a potential rapist.

[Amaryllis]

That's not really considered music is it? :P that's just radio interference... but I agree with the rest.
Music = Organised or planned sound

Sorry, I got hot-headed. I'm a metal listener and I don't much like being told that my music means I'm a potential rapist.
Everyone's a potential rapist. I'm a potential stripper. Having the potential is different from being the definite.

It's a starting point, thus, it's an influence.
You can't tell me that serial rapists aren't constantly horny as hell. The only difference between a rapist and a horny kid, is the fact if they decide to take action on those thoughts.
That's a -big- difference. Thoughts =/= Actions. What you think is not necessarily what you do. Of course I want to kill my parents(especially my father) most of the time. However, if I do not act on those desires, I am not a bad person.

Sometimes I feel like telling people to shut the fuck up and deal with it, of course, I don't. I act in a manner that is empathetic and considerate more often than not. Just like how we all judge people to some extent - as long as you do not tell the person they're the ugliest piece of shit you've ever seen and punch them in the face, well, we all have a right to the privacy of our own thoughts.

That'll be like telling me that serial killers don't constantly think about killing people.
Are you sure of this? Have you killed several people? Your parents could have constant thoughts of killing people, perhaps even you, many of our thoughts do not transcend into actions.

Ever met a person you just really, really wanted to kill or beat into a pulp?

I never directly said porn made you a rapist.
I said it has an impact on your thoughts throughout life, it's an influence.
Now, in no way am I saying pornography does not encourage rape - at all. But for the purpose of this argument, I will pick a side. So yes to pornography.

-It makes people feel better about themselves. Not only that, it reduces crime and increases work productivity.
-It teaches people self-control. When you watch porn, you're watching someone else have sex with someone else. It's not like you can stick your hand in the screen and grab the virtual girl.
-It encourages better sex. If you know what you're doing, you're 10 times more likely to do it right. People learn from watching.
-Knowledge builds confidence.
-Sex therapists encourage masturbation and adding porn into the mix just makes you all the better at pleasing your partner and yourself.
-Substitutes a sex life. Not everyone has someone to have sex with, so pornography does the trick.
-It helps the economy. The porn industry is pretty big after all.
-Pornography lets women accentuate their femininity. Contrary to popular belief, pornography helps women explore their sexuality and feel, be and learn to be in power.
-Pornography gives people jobs. Honestly, if pornography became illegal, it would be quite hard for pornstars to find jobs. How many employees would hire an ex-pornstar?
-Porn does not make people more aggressive. Generally, when people are watching porn - they don't think "DAMN I WANT TO STAB HIM IN THE EYE AND CUT OFF HIS TOES!"
-It curbs violent fantasies. After all, they have other ways of satisfying that need with porn.
-It violates free speech. It is only when free speech becomes offensive to others that it becomes a problem. This is not the case in pornography - they're consenting, legal adults. And no, child pornography does not count because it is illegal and we're often unwilling.

[Music Lover]

I'd just like to ask a question: Many of you accuse Blank (What's his actual name btw.) of using sources, which cannot be trusted. Do you guys have any basis for this? Seriously, it seems slightly ridiculous when people state someone's sources as false without rationalisation, while yet not providint sources to back up their own statements. I would seriously like to see someone thoroughly answer to Blank's original message and the content linked and give reasoned arguments against them. If that was done, a proper debate could ensue.

[Sage]

I'd just like to ask a question: Many of you accuse Blank (What's his actual name btw.) of using sources, which cannot be trusted. Do you guys have any basis for this?

His sources make it clear they're arguing from a deeply religious background. That is their bias. It is not widely believed at all among psychologists that pornography is harmful.

[Music Lover]

His sources make it clear they're arguing from a deeply religious background. That is their bias. It is not widely believed at all among psychologists that pornography is harmful.

Ok, they have bias, admitted. But is there anything wrong with their statistics? What makes them not genuine? Look up the ad hominem fallacy please :) Arguments should be considered, not the person making them.
Also, how about the ad populum argument? Popular belief should not be a basis for arguments in a debate.

[Korashk]

Ok, they have bias, admitted. But is there anything wrong with their statistics?
Other than STD rates (which don't further the argument that pornography is bad) the sources do not list statistics. Just interpretations of data. Which is where the problem lies. I've glanced at the references cited by MARRI's page and for the most of them are either referring to pornography addiction and not pornpgraphy, or referencing papers punlished by the Heritage Foundation. An organization subject to the same problems as organizations such as MARRI and the Institute for Creation Research. Namely interpreting data to fit their agenda and confusing correlation with causation.

[Music Lover]

Other than STD rates (which don't further the argument that pornography is bad) the sources do not list statistics.
http://www.shelleylubben.com/porn-industry
There is a text with a bit more statistics. I'll especially mention the 50% shorter life-expectancy on average of workers in the porn industry. Check it out.

Just interpretations of data. Which is where the problem lies. I've glanced at the references cited by MARRI's page and for the most of them are either referring to pornography addiction and not pornpgraphy, or referencing papers punlished by the Heritage Foundation. An organization subject to the same problems as organizations such as MARRI and the Institute for Creation Research. Namely interpreting data to fit their agenda and confusing correlation with causation.

As I said before. The arguments should be analysed based on content, not on who says the content. As for ICR, I find their analysis and conclusions to be reasonable, but we can debate this on a further thread.

I think it is needless to say, all sources have bias, which is the reason that arguments should be judged on content, not who presents it.

The articles and testimonies on shelleylubben.com give an indication that the porn industry is an industry with harsh working conditions, pressurisation and abuse. Although, from what I've seen is that there are some porn producers who claim to respect their workers.
Nevertheless, the information which is to be found seems mainly to not be statistical evidence, with a few exceptions. This very much limits the available information to testimonies of experiences.
Now, someone could say that we don't know if these people have just made up everything, but for example Shelley Lubben seems to actually have come from the backgrounds she comments on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelley_Lubben). I believe it is reasonable to assume she would know of how the industry works if she has actually worked in it.

EDIT: Also, the lack of statistical evidence is also because the information is based on peoples' experiences with the porn industry. That is why they very many times use words such as most and lots etc.

[Korashk]

http://www.shelleylubben.com/porn-industry
There is a text with a bit more statistics. I'll especially mention the 50% shorter life-expectancy on average of workers in the porn industry. Check it out.
That's a commercial website dedicated to selling a book and the statistics aren't even sourced.

As I said before. The arguments should be analysed based on content, not on who says the content.
I did analyze them based on their content. Mainly that their data does not support their conclusion because most of their data involves porn addiction and their conclusions have to do with porn in general.

As for ICR, I find their analysis and conclusions to be reasonable, but we can debate this on a further thread.
If you think that the conclusions of the Institute for Creation Research are reasonable, then I don't really want to have a discussion with you.

The articles and testimonies on shelleylubben.com give an indication that the porn industry is an industry with harsh working conditions, pressurisation and abuse.
No they don't, for two reasons. They're unsourced, and witness testimony is not valid evidence.

[Music Lover]

That's a commercial website dedicated to selling a book and the statistics aren't even sourced.

Actually, Pink Cross Foundation is a non-profit organisation with a mission to help people get out of the porn industry and raise awareness to how horribly the workers are treated.


I did analyze them based on their content. Mainly that their data does not support their conclusion because most of their data involves porn addiction and their conclusions have to do with porn in general.
Could you lay out your analysis on the sources data compared to the conclusion? Which data and conclusions are you referring to, etc.?

If you think that the conclusions of the Institute for Creation Research are reasonable, then I don't really want to have a discussion with you.
Look up "Poisoning the well". It seems you are doing just that.


No they don't, for two reasons. They're unsourced, and witness testimony is not valid evidence.
Why would witness testimony not be a reliable source of information, when the witnesses are actual people who have actually worked in the industry and know about the working conditions?

[Korashk]

Actually, Pink Cross Foundation is a non-profit organisation with a mission to help people get out of the porn industry and raise awareness to how horribly the workers are treated.
The source you gave didn't go to the Pink Cross Foundation. It went to "The Official Website of Shelley Lubben". The most prominet things you see when visiting being "Signed copy only $15.00" and "Get Shelley's book NOW!"

Could you lay out your analysis on the sources data compared to the conclusion? Which data and conclusions are you referring to, etc.?
I'm not going to waste my time indulging your ridiculously high analytical standards.

Look up "Poisoning the well". It seems you are doing just that.
Did you just learn what logical fallacies are or something? The ICR is an organization dedicated to proving that the Earth is 6000 years old and that every species that exists today existed not long after Earth's creation.

Anyone with a properly functioning brain realizes that these conclusions are ridiculous.

Why would witness testimony not be a reliable source of information, when the witnesses are actual people who have actually worked in the industry and know about the working conditions?
I'll let wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence) do my talking for me:

Anecdotal evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, can be used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalising from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". While the evidence is true, it does not warrant the conclusion made from it.

[Music Lover]

The source you gave didn't go to the Pink Cross Foundation. It went to "The Official Website of Shelley Lubben". The most prominet things you see when visiting being "Signed copy only $15.00" and "Get Shelley's book NOW!"
The advert for the book is alongside everything else on the website: blogs, videos, testimonies etc. And you haven't still said where you got the information of the website being commercial?

I'm not going to waste my time indulging your ridiculously high analytical standards.
A shame, because thoroughness is something I like in a debate.

Did you just learn what logical fallacies are or something?
Actually, I've learned of them quite a while ago. On the contrary, it seems many people here use them.

The ICR is an organization dedicated to proving that the Earth is 6000 years old and that every species that exists today existed not long after Earth's creation.
Well yes, they are creationist scientists.

Anyone with a properly functioning brain realizes that these conclusions are ridiculous.
If someone has been taught throughout their lives that evolution is a fact, they will probably think of it as the truth. ICR:s ideology being different to the popular opinion is not something based on which the truthfulness of their statements should be evaluated.

I'll let wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence) do my talking for me:
May I remind you that Shelley Lubben has not only her personal statistics. She has worked in Chatsworth, the center of the porn industry and has seen the bigger picture. I believe if she has seen how 85% of the porn industry works, she has sufficient information to make a generalisation on the working conditions of the porn industry.

[kenoloor]

May I remind you that Shelley Lubben has not only her personal statistics. She has worked in Chatsworth, the center of the porn industry and has seen the bigger picture. I believe if she has seen how 85% of the porn industry works, she has sufficient information to make a generalisation on the working conditions of the porn industry.

There's this thing called bias ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias). Specifically, statistical bias.

[Korashk]

The advert for the book is alongside everything else on the website: blogs, videos, testimonies etc. And you haven't still said where you got the information of the website being commercial?
Blogs, videos, and testimonies still (for the most part) fall under Anecdotal evidence and is therefore inadmissible as a, authoritative source.

A shame, because thoroughness is something I like in a debate.
I'm not going to read a book just to address a point in a forum.

If someone has been taught throughout their lives that evolution is a fact, they will probably think of it as the truth. ICR:s ideology being different to the popular opinion is not something based on which the truthfulness of their statements should be evaluated.
Yes, and their statements consist of telling people that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution is false. Therefore, their statements can be dismissed as being false because the earth is billions of years old, and evolution happens.

May I remind you that Shelley Lubben has not only her personal statistics. She has worked in Chatsworth, the center of the porn industry and has seen the bigger picture. I believe if she has seen how 85% of the porn industry works, she has sufficient information to make a generalisation on the working conditions of the porn industry.
Still anecdotal evidence and therefore still inadmissible in debate. It's funny how you point out the logical fallacies of others, yet insist that when you use then, they aren't logical fallacies all of a sudden.

[Music Lover]

Yes, and their statements consist of telling people that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution is false. Therefore, their statements can be dismissed as being false because the earth is billions of years old, and evolution happens.
If evolution is seen as a fact, of course the ideas of ICR and like organisations will be considered false. But, let's keep on topic. I do not intend to further address ICR in this thread.

Still anecdotal evidence and therefore still inadmissible in debate. It's funny how you point out the logical fallacies of others, yet insist that when you use then, they aren't logical fallacies all of a sudden.
"Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy" - Wikipedia
It doesn't state that use of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, but that misuse is. What I am wondering is why the story of a person who has actually seen how the industry works is not trustworthy.
If I understood correctly, anecdotal evidence is basically statistical evidence with a sample too small to make reliable generalisations out of. Correct me if I am wrong.
What I fail to see is why you would consider someone who has seen how 85% of the porn industry works as unreliable because of the sample being too small.

[Korashk]

"Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy" - Wikipedia
It doesn't state that use of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, but that misuse is. What I am wondering is why the story of a person who has actually seen how the industry works is not trustworthy.
Because one person's testimony is not a representative sample in any case. The porn industry is a multinational, multi-billion dollar industry. To think that one can make generalizations about it based off the testomony of ONE person is absurd.

If I understood correctly, anecdotal evidence is basically statistical evidence with a sample too small to make reliable generalisations out of. Correct me if I am wrong.
That sounds about right.

What I fail to see is why you would consider someone who has seen how 85% of the porn industry works as unreliable because of the sample being too small.
She hasn't seen what 85% of the porn industry is like. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands of different porn companies. That's just America. One person's testimony is not enough to draw any conclusions.

[Music Lover]

Because one person's testimony is not a representative sample in any case. The porn industry is a multinational, multi-billion dollar industry. To think that one can make generalizations about it based off the testomony of ONE person is absurd.

Do you have sources?

She hasn't seen what 85% of the porn industry is like. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands of different porn companies. That's just America. One person's testimony is not enough to draw any conclusions.

Here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20280932/Pornography-Secondary-Effects-by-Shelley-Lubben) she states that number, also referencing it. Do you have a reason why this statement would be false?

EDIT: I also found this (http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=80+percent+of+the+world%E2%80%99s+adult+content+is+made+in+Chatsworth+CA&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dir.ca.gov%2Fdosh%2Fdoshreg%2Fmeeting_minutes_6-29-10.doc&ei=0F3qTuuoAend4QSf3riCCQ&usg=AFQjCNGjWXH9SY-DU2n45ztlwHKyu27evQ), where one part says: "according to the FSC 80 percent of the world’s adult content is made in Chatsworth CA" (FSC=Free Speech Coalition). Although, I haven't yet found the origins of this information. But nevertheless, do you have any sources supporting your view of the California porn industry being a minority?

[Korashk]

Do you have sources?
For what? I haven't made any assertions. Unless you're asking for a source as to why the word of one person is unreliable when talking about something on the scale of an economic category?

Here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/20280932/Pornography-Secondary-Effects-by-Shelley-Lubben) she states that number, also referencing it. Do you have a reason why this statement would be false?
Here she states what number? I skimmed the entire thing and didn't see any reference to how much of the porn industry she's seen. Maybe quote the part you're talking about and and explanation of what exactly you're addressing. I think we're just suffering from communication failure.

EDIT: I also found this (http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=80+percent+of+the+world%E2%80%99s+adult+content+is+made+in+Chatsworth+CA&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dir.ca.gov%2Fdosh%2Fdoshreg%2Fmeeting_minutes_6-29-10.doc&ei=0F3qTuuoAend4QSf3riCCQ&usg=AFQjCNGjWXH9SY-DU2n45ztlwHKyu27evQ), where one part says: "according to the FSC 80 percent of the world’s adult content is made in Chatsworth CA" (FSC=Free Speech Coalition). Although, I haven't yet found the origins of this information. But nevertheless, do you have any sources supporting your view of the California porn industry being a minority?
I never said that the California porn industry was a minority.

[Music Lover]

Here she states what number? I skimmed the entire thing and didn't see any reference to how much of the porn industry she's seen. Maybe quote the part you're talking about and and explanation of what exactly you're addressing. I think we're just suffering from communication failure.
Ok the quote is: "Chatsworth, California produces 85% of the world’s adult content."

I never said that the California porn industry was a minority.

Ok, then I misunderstood you when you said:
She hasn't seen what 85% of the porn industry is like.

Ok, let me state my view.
From the sources I've taken a look at I gather the following information:
California produces about 85% of world's adult content.
Shelley Lubben has worked in the industry, had her own experiences, and observed the other workers and her message is that the porn industry is abusive, pressurizing and drug-contaminated.

I see no reason to doubt that she has seen how the majority of the porn industry works. I also do not see a reason to why she should be lying about the porn industry.
Thus my conclusion that at least the majority of the world's porn industry is indeed abusive, pressurizing and drug-filled.
Due to lack of information it is not possible to determine whether all companies treat their workers how the majority does, but I still haven't seen any evidence pointing to there being companies which treat their workers well.

[TheMatrix]

Well, the first thing that you would do as a porn model willing to get out is to just leave. Yes, walk out the door. Or if your contract forbids it, then try to find loopholes where you can sue to get out. OR just make it difficult for them.

Then, you take a different name, and go work somewhere else.

[danny7]

First off, it's nearly impossible to ban pornography. You will still have underground pornographers and that's even worse because we want what we can't get.

Wether you like it or not, being a pornstar is their job. Would you take away the jobs of any other occupation? What right do you have to do that, anyway? If pornography was banned, tons of americans, especially, would be left unemployed. What occupational opportunities would they have left? Few people are willing to hire ex-pornstars.

Pornography appeases sexual desires. Without it, rape cases would skyrocket and you'd have a lot more minors having sex. If people don't have porn to jack off to, who are they gonna turn to(other than themselves). That's right. The sex they're attracted to. A lot of kids -need- porn, what with puberty and whatnot.

Porn = Money. The porn industry is a huge source of income for a lot of countries *cough* america *cough* When you watch pornography, you're boosting up your national economy :D

Pornography benefits pornstars as well, it makes them feel better about themselves and it gives them a purpose. What's so bad about that? This is like abortion. It's the woman's/pornstar's choice. It's their bodies, minds and lives. They can do whatever they want with it.

People will die. Well, that's an exaggeration but you get my drift. People need porn, especially kids and if you don't give them what they want, you'll get riots, protests and strikes. People -will be mad-.

Going along to your first sentence: In the U.S. you cant ban pornography because it is a constitutional right from the 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights stating freedom of speech, religion, assembly, petition, press, and expression (symbolic speech) too.

[Jupiter]

porn is my best friend.

[Infidelitas]

porn is my best friend.

Each to their own.

[Music Lover]

Well, the first thing that you would do as a porn model willing to get out is to just leave. Yes, walk out the door. Or if your contract forbids it, then try to find loopholes where you can sue to get out. OR just make it difficult for them.

How about if they find themselves trapped inside? If they have a dependency on the porn and sex industry to get their living and if they quit, couldn't get any other work because of their background? You make it seem like getting rid of your past is such a simple matter as changing your name.

[TheMatrix]

How about if they find themselves trapped inside? If they have a dependency on the porn and sex industry to get their living and if they quit, couldn't get any other work because of their background? You make it seem like getting rid of your past is such a simple matter as changing your name.
Sometimes, it can be, actually. You could also go into the normal clothes modelling business. And dare I say, depending on the type of porn you starred in, you may find your brand to have record-high sales ;)

[Texas warrior]

I WATCH PORN, AND I DO NOT CARE WHO KNOWS IT!

It did two things for me.

one. it made me more intolerable to rape porn. knowing what rape is, and seeing it -bends over and pukes- makes me sick.

it gave me a idea about what sexuality is. the idea evolved and is still evolving today.
with out porn I would know nothing about sex and sexuality. Most of what I learned about sexuality from porn was wrong, but it was the start of a learning experience.
And if I had not started to learn I would be 17 my gf would offer sex, I would take it, she would get pregnant, and I would wander why I never looked up this sex thing on the web.


Warrior out

[Jupiter]

I WATCH PORN, AND I DO NOT CARE WHO KNOWS IT!

It did two things for me.

one. it made me more intolerable to rape porn. knowing what rape is, and seeing it -bends over and pukes- makes me sick.

it gave me a idea about what sexuality is. the idea evolved and is still evolving today.
with out porn I would know nothing about sex and sexuality. Most of what I learned about sexuality from porn was wrong, but it was the start of a learning experience.
And if I had not started to learn I would be 17 my gf would offer sex, I would take it, she would get pregnant, and I would wander why I never looked up this sex thing on the web.


Warrior out

so... no porn= not knowing our sexuality, and pregnancy.

hm

[dinosaur_go_rawr]

Porn is porn. Theres no right or wrong reson for it - its just been created for others pleasure. Whether you choose to watch it or not you cant stop it. Sex is a natral thing, its what were made for. From the minuet were born our bodys are preping us up for sex and pregnancy. Boobs are giant baby bottles, balls are sperm factorys , vaginas are entrance holes and exit holes and dicks are like sperm guns. Thats life- you cant change it- but you can watch it! Xxx

[GoddesssOfDarknesss]

All this hostility...haha.

I personally DISLIKE porn for this simple yet true statement right here:

-Both spouses perceive pornography viewing as tantamount to infidelity.

Why would I want my man to be viewing another woman in a sexual way?

He should only view ME in that way.

Sure, it's human nature to to " look " at the opposite sex.

But it's when someone takes it to the next " level " [ ie. staring, making remarks about how "attractive" he/she is, fantasizing about them and/or other women/men, etc. ] does it pose a serious " threat " to the relationship.

[ If you disagree with the above statement, I honestly feel that you're lying to yourself ]

We also " look " at other people/things JUST as a natural reaction to stimuli, to see what is approaching us.

If you're single and you watch porn. Good for you.

But if you're in a committed relationship, you need to rethink and reevaluate yourself and the situation.

Are you TRULY happy with your partner?

Does your partner TRULY please you?

Are you TRULY physically attracted to your partner?
[ And mentally/emotionally as well ]

There are better ways to " spice things up " in the bedroom, such as role playing,

The difference between role playing and watching porn is that role playing involves YOUR partner dressing up as -- enter cliche statement here -- and fantasizing over each other, whereas, watching porn involves a DIFFERENT person [ male/female ] that you fantasize over because of the way they look.

This is JUST MY OPINION on watching porn and i'm not changing it, but i'm open to hear other's perspectives/opinions about it to see why others may feel differently.

-- enter cliche/overused exiting sentence here --