Christ for Atheists

[Blank]

I know I'm going to receive a lot of backlash, I'm not going to be bothered by it. Everyone needs to know the truth, we all need Christ. Christ is not an opinion, Christ is not a religion, Christ IS TRUTH. For those who don't believe, invite the Lord into your heart and you will see change in your life beyond your imagination! The Lord does not hate YOU, He hates the SIN in you. He hates it because He sees how the sin is DESTROYING you, and how you are OBLIVIOUS to it, how the sin is destroying is child, and therefore He hates it.

You must understand that the Lord is our father. He made us. Which parent in their right mind would allow their own children to play with fire? He didn't come up with a set of rules just because he did not like certain things, he came up with these rules to PROTECT YOU FROM SIN. I have seen and experienced how lust, pride, homosexuality, wrath, gluttony and other sins that the Lord condemns harm a person without themselves ever realising it.

Please have a look at the link below. I apologise first if I am not able to answer your questions, for I am a new Christian. I will however, try my best. All I know is that I'm burning with passion to spread the word of the Lord so that YOU can SEE THE TRUTH. A passion that YOU TOO can experience if you ACCEPT THE LORD. I am gay, struggle with pornography and masturbation, struggle with sustaining a relationship with my parents. I can go on. I don't hate you, understand that. I want you to see what I have seen. How sinful we all are.

A Sermon on Christ for Atheists (Paul Washer w/ Dutch Translator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMXDYeYza0I

[Lucy the looney]

Not everyone needs Christ,I do not and don't want to either

[Blank]

Like you said, you do not WANT Christ. But nothing can change the fact that you absolutely need Him. Trust me, any problems that you may have, it may be heartache, disappointment, sloth, eating disorders, depression, WHATEVER! Invite Him into your heart. Learn how to live a life in Christ, because your father knows what's best for you. You'll be amazed at what He can do.

[Genghis Khan]

If there's anything I really need right now it's a shit. Brb.

Edit: That was amazing.

[Cybercode]

Dude it's great that you are trying to spread the word of the Lord, but most people do not want to accept Christ as thir Lord, their savior. Not only are you fonna get negative rep for this from people on here, but you won't get respect from people on here. I've been here long enough to know that people don't believe inca supreme being and we have no right to change their beliefs. But I do say: "You may ignore Him, but He will never ignore you."

[Cirrus]

How did you become a Christian, Blank?

[pineinchneis]

I have no need or want for christ (and don't tell me I do)

[Amaryllis]

Proof.

[Iris]

LOL no.

Christ can go fuck a tree for all I care.

[Blank]

Dude it's great that you are trying to spread the word of the Lord, but most people do not want to accept Christ as thir Lord, their savior. Not only are you fonna get negative rep for this from people on here, but you won't get respect from people on here. I've been here long enough to know that people don't believe inca supreme being and we have no right to change their beliefs. But I do say: "You may ignore Him, but He will never ignore you."

It's nice to have a fellow Christian here. I do not mind a negative reputation and I do not want their respect. I am a servant of Christ and the Lord will use me to do His work. And the people here should have every right to the truth.

How did you become a Christian, Blank?

I didn't like the idea at first, but something told me that there was a God. I was born into a Buddhist family. So one day I decided to go to church, that was about a year ago. I felt uncomfortable there, the people were singing songs about praising the Lord and I didn't understand it at all. However I just kept at it. It hasn't been easy, I had to come to terms with accepting that my homosexuality is sin and the fact that I HAD to change, as well as the fact that pornography and masturbation is bad. I had a boyfriend at the time too.

Long story short, my homosexual tendencies are still there, but far more manageable than they used to be. Also, I've cut down on masturbation and pornography. The Lord also gave me confidence and strength when I was insecure and shy. Just recently, he helped restore my family. I'd been isolating myself from them for years. But I've been praying for healing, and it finally came, all in one day. I had dinner with my parents and we chatted, and I also helped my sister with a bit of her homework.

Proof.

The Bible. Testimonies of life changing experiences. Look up Shelly Luben on youtube.

You may not be able to see or hear God, but once you develop a relationship with Him, He will be very, very tangible.

I have no need or want for christ (and don't tell me I do)

I don't have to tell you, the need is there regardless.

Don't double post, man. You can use the multi-quote button to reply to several posts at once. ~Sage

[Perseus]

I'm fine without Christ in my life. I was an ignorant hick with Christ in my life, and I'd rather not be that again. I'm much better off without the need for some dude who died 2,000 years ago. This is the 21st Century. There is no proof of any kind of deity. Humans have had religion forever, so what makes Christianity so special? Jesus can be paralleled to Horus, who came before him in Egypt.

[Jupiter]

Hey! It's awesome that you are spreading the word of Christ on here. You are at least trying. I too am a Christian. Here, the majority of people are either agnostics, or atheists .They do no not want Christ in their life.

They will bash Christianity. This will happen. Just don't fight back, or they will call you a "butt hurt Christian." Keep in touch with me, man!

[Blank]

I'm fine without Christ in my life. I was an ignorant hick with Christ in my life, and I'd rather not be that again. I'm much better off without the need for some dude who died 2,000 years ago. This is the 21st Century. There is no proof of any kind of deity. Humans have had religion forever, so what makes Christianity so special?

Ignorant? It's ignorant to follow the ways of the world. Whoever tells you that it's ok to smoke or ok to have underage sex is ignorant because not only are you being irresponsible by not taking care of your own body, you are also not taking into regard the feelings of the people who care about you. 21 centuries are but a drop in the bucket to an eternal God. The dude who died 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ, didn't just die. He suffered on the cross for sin He did not commit. Our sin. Just because it happened sometime back doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. He sacrificed Himself for YOU. How could you disregard that?

Christianity is different from other religions because it is the TRUTH. God is not a deity, He is our creator. Deities are created by humans. Those who follow deities agree with the religion.

Psalms 135:15-18

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; they have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.

I didn't enjoy following God's ways, ask any Christian, they had to struggle to follow Christ! We didn't look through the bible and go, 'mmmmhmm, this makes sense, I like it, I'm a Christian.' NO. It's how God showed us the light, how He used us to be so much more than we are. I've done things that I've never dreamed I'd be able to accomplish because of God. God freed me from sin just like He freed other Christians!

[Jupiter]

I didn't enjoy following God's ways, ask any Christian, they had to struggle to follow Christ! We didn't look through the bible and go, 'mmmmhmm, this makes sense, I like it, I'm a Christian.' NO. It's how God showed us the light, how He used us to be so much more than we are. I've done things that I've never dreamed I'd be able to accomplish because of God. God freed me from sin just like He freed other Christians!

Then how can YOU bring people. Only God can bring people to the light,

[Blank]

Then how can YOU bring people. Only God can bring people to the light,

God can use me to bring people to Him

[Perseus]

Ignorant? It's ignorant to follow the ways of the world. Whoever tells you that it's ok to smoke or ok to have underage sex is ignorant because not only are you being irresponsible by not taking care of your own body, you are also not taking into regard the feelings of the people who care about you. 21 centuries are but a drop in the bucket to an eternal God. The dude who died 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ, didn't just die. He suffered on the cross for sin He did not commit. Our sin. Just because it happened sometime back doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. He sacrificed Himself for YOU. How could you disregard that?

Christianity is different from other religions because it is the TRUTH. God is not a deity, He is our creator. Deities are created by humans. Those who follow deities agree with the religion.

Psalms 135:15-18

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not; they have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths. They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.

I didn't enjoy following God's ways, ask any Christian, they had to struggle to follow Christ! We didn't look through the bible and go, 'mmmmhmm, this makes sense, I like it, I'm a Christian.' NO. It's how God showed us the light, how He used us to be so much more than we are. I've done things that I've never dreamed I'd be able to accomplish because of God. God freed me from sin just like He freed other Christians!

Christianity is no different than any other religion. Stop your trying. You are not going to convert anybody here. And plus, the more you try, the more likely people will not want to give your superior religion a chance because it's fucking annoying to preach to people. People want to live their lives without some kid telling them they to find some dude in their life.

[Jupiter]

God can use me to bring people to Him

God doesn't need any help. He's got it covered! He can do anything.

[StoppingTime]

How can you prove to me its any different from any other religion? I'm an observant Jew, so your not going to get me to follow your "truth". Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe that Jesus was his son? He was no different from anyone else. I'm not looking to bash you, just sharing my opinion.


God doesn't need any help. He's got it covered! He can do anything.

Yea, what your doing only makes things worse.

[Blank]

Christianity is no different than any other religion. Stop your trying. You are not going to convert anybody here. And plus, the more you try, the more likely people will not want to give your superior religion a chance because it's fucking annoying to preach to people. People want to live their lives without some kid telling them they to find some dude in their life.

I explained why it was different. I'm aware that the message will not be well received, the truth still needs to be told.

[StoppingTime]

Where does it say in the Bible that God wants ou preaching on anyone?

[Suicune]

I was once a Christian and since have come to terms with the fact that one can not be a believer and be a non-believer at the same time.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[kenoloor]

The Bible. Testimonies of life changing experiences. Look up Shelly Luben on youtube.

You may not be able to see or hear God, but once you develop a relationship with Him, He will be very, very tangible.

You must not know what "proof" means, because the Bible is not proof, and neither are random testimonies. I can post a video saying that I had amazing sex with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but that doesn't make it true.

I always find it entertaining when people say that Jesus is fact/truth/insertBShere. It makes me laugh, and then I remember why religion has become such a poison to the planet.

A) don't fucking say homosexuality is a sin. If you're so Christian, try being more like Christ. Wanna know what he said about homosexuality? Absolutely nothing. And if you're talking about Leviticus, then that means that you must also apply laws such as those that forbid you from shaving, forbid you from wearing clothing with mixed fabrics, forbid you from touching a woman on her period, forbid you from getting piercings or tattoos, forbid you from being uncircumcised. All of those laws are in Leviticus, and none of those seems to apply anymore, so why does homosexuality? Picking and choosing what you believe from your Holy Book is really cheap.

B) there is not one, single scrap of evidence that any deity or deities exist. Nothing. So your argument goes against logic and evidence, and is therefore invalid, and you have no point to make.

I love threads like these. It reminds me how nice it is to think critically and logically, which you seem to be incapable of doing.

Edit: One more thing. I was hard-ass Christian for a large chunk of my life. I prayed before every meal and before bed every night and I believed very firmly that God was there for us, and that he was watching over all of us. Because of the family that I was raised in, we (my siblings and I) weren't given any alternative other than Christianity. But when all of my prayers continued to go unanswered, and I continued to be ignored by God, I started doing my research. And I found that God doesn't exist. So, no, accepting God may give you the illusion that your life is better, but it's just that: an illusion. Accepting God doesn't change shit.

[Blank]

How can you prove to me its any different from any other religion? I'm an observant Jew, so your not going to get me to follow your "truth". Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe that Jesus was his son? He was no different from anyone else. I'm not looking to bash you, just sharing my opinion.




Yea, what your doing only makes things worse.

And I respect your opinion.

I'm not just going to sit back and watch a bunch of teenagers say that everything that God hates it alright when it's absolutely wrong. They'll just go on believing that it's alright. I did too.

[Jupiter]

Where does it say in the Bible that God wants ou preaching on anyone?

http://www.openbible.info/topics/preaching

[StoppingTime]

http://www.openbible.info/topics/preaching

I saw the one from the Torah, and that doesn't have to do with preaching. Moses was hard of speech, and needed God, and Aaron to help him. This was when he was going to go to Pharoah to say to let te Israelites go.

[Jess]

um no. I do not ever need or want Christ. I don't believe in God nor will I ever.

[Rawwwrr]

You are everything I hate about Christianity.
I do not want or need a violent, megalomaniacal, egotistical, vicious, tyrannical God. I'm perfectly happy living life as a Secular Humanist with strong Buddhist philosophies. I base my morals and opinions on logic, world experience and facts - I don't base it off a fairy tale book.

I don't need him, I don't want him, I don't believe he exitsts, and don't you dare try and tell me otherwise. You're 15 years old, same as me, I'd expect you to be a bit more intelligent than "God is real regardless of what you think and I know this because I read it in a book".

[fatguystrangler]

I know I'm going to receive a lot of backlash, I'm not going to be bothered by it. Everyone needs to know the truth, we all need Christ. Christ is not an opinion, Christ is not a religion, Christ IS TRUTH. For those who don't believe, invite the Lord into your heart and you will see change in your life beyond your imagination! The Lord does not hate YOU, He hates the SIN in you. He hates it because He sees how the sin is DESTROYING you, and how you are OBLIVIOUS to it, how the sin is destroying is child, and therefore He hates it.

You must understand that the Lord is our father. He made us. Which parent in their right mind would allow their own children to play with fire? He didn't come up with a set of rules just because he did not like certain things, he came up with these rules to PROTECT YOU FROM SIN. I have seen and experienced how lust, pride, homosexuality, wrath, gluttony and other sins that the Lord condemns harm a person without themselves ever realising it.

Please have a look at the link below. I apologise first if I am not able to answer your questions, for I am a new Christian. I will however, try my best. All I know is that I'm burning with passion to spread the word of the Lord so that YOU can SEE THE TRUTH. A passion that YOU TOO can experience if you ACCEPT THE LORD. I am gay, struggle with pornography and masturbation, struggle with sustaining a relationship with my parents. I can go on. I don't hate you, understand that. I want you to see what I have seen. How sinful we all are.

A Sermon on Christ for Atheists (Paul Washer w/ Dutch Translator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMXDYeYza0I


Bad idea bro. Now all of the edgy ass holes are gonna neg rep you and try to sound cool by saying "lol fuck god hurr hurr hurr"

[Cirrus]

What's the point of quoting the Bible? It's just a story book, written a long time ago, when people didn't understand much science.

It's a shame that, in this day and age, people still believe such fairy tales. Oh well, at least you chose to be this way. Your parents didn't raise you to believe it, which is the worst thing they could do.

[Sage]

OP, what's the point of this thread? The debate board is here for debates. You're making it blatantly clear that nothing anyone is going to say here is going to change your mind, and nobody is going to take kindly to you making yourself a target, intentionally or not.

You might not care what others think of you, but flame-bait threads make the entire website look bad, so if this thread isn't going anywhere I'll ask that you stop being a shit-stirrer.

[huginnmuninn]

the image of god has changed so many times over the yeas do you really think your version of god is the real one? From "Sinners in the hands of an angry god" to God loves us all. It seems to me either someone is wrong or god has a few alternate personalities or something. Look at the old testament and the new testament, old testament: god is a douche that kills any that he doesnt like, new testament: god loves us all. well if god loves us all so much then why does he send so many to hell?

and im going on the premise that god exists

[jack187]

OP, what's the point of this thread? The debate board is here for debates. You're making it blatantly clear that nothing anyone is going to say here is going to change your mind, and nobody is going to take kindly to you making yourself a target, intentionally or not.

You might not care what others think of you, but flame-bait threads make the entire website look bad, so if this thread isn't going anywhere I'll ask that you stop being a shit-stirrer.

"I don't like christians, so I'm going to say you're a troll then ban you heheheh"

[Angel Androgynous]

For one thing, I am an Atheist.
For another, you have mentioned Jesus Christ dying and suffering for our sins.
Let me give you this hypothetical situation: If you were a judge, and there was a murder, and you caught someone, and killed them, and then found the REAL murderer... would you be horrified... OR tell the murderer: "Well, someone died in your place for you! You're free to go!"
Jesus' sacrifice is exactly what justice is NOT. Also, if God's intent was to forgive us, could he not have done so by JUST FORGIVING US? Why insist that someone or something was sacrificed in the process? (Looks like the Old Testament God is showing through ;))

The bible is not proof. That's like saying: "The three little pigs is a story of pigs that learned to build houses from the wolf god, but the first two pigs built weak houses so the wolf god blew them down and ate the pigs, and then when he tried to blow down the brick house, he couldn't and tried to get through the chimney, fell in a boiling pot, and died a horrible death." Okay... yeah, maybe that's how the story goes... then you say: "The wolf is his own only son, and he died for your sins!" They ask for proof and you say: "It's all right here in the book! :D" Yeah no.

Also, the bible contradicts itself MULTIPLE TIMES.
Even I can write something more reliable than that!
(And I am a horrible writer!)

Cthulhu is a much cooler God, by the way. ;D

[deadpie]

I know I'm going to receive a lot of backlash, I'm not going to be bothered by it. Everyone needs to know the truth, we all need the flying spaghetti monster. The flying spaghetti monster is not an opinion, The flying spaghetti monster is not a religion, The flying spaghetti monster IS TRUTH. For those who don't believe, invite the flying spaghetti monster into your heart and you will see change in your life beyond your imagination! The flying spaghetti monster does not hate YOU, He hates the SIN in you. He hates it because He sees how the sin is DESTROYING you, and how you are OBLIVIOUS to it, how the sin is destroying is child, and therefore He hates it.

You must understand that the flying spaghetti monster is our father. He made us. Which parent in their right mind would allow their own children to play with fire? He didn't come up with a set of rules just because he did not like certain things, he came up with these rules to PROTECT YOU FROM SIN. I have seen and experienced how lust, pride, homosexuality, wrath, gluttony and other sins that the flying spaghetti monster condemns harm a person without themselves ever realising it.

Please have a look at the link below. I apologise first if I am not able to answer your questions, for I am a new Pastafarian. I will however, try my best. All I know is that I'm burning with passion to spread the word of the flying spaghetti monster so that YOU can SEE THE TRUTH. A passion that YOU TOO can experience if you ACCEPT THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER. I am gay, struggle with pornography and masturbation, struggle with sustaining a relationship with my parents. I can go on. I don't hate you, understand that. I want you to see what I have seen. How sinful we all are.

A Sermon on flying spaghetti monster for Atheists (Written by a chef)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km4icEDpYs0

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is true because The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster says so. That's enough proof for me because i'm so closed minded that I base everything on faith with no reasoning/proof. My God is right and everyone else's is wrong because I just know. Don't question it, you're all going to Spaghetti Hell anyways.

[Efflorescence]

I know I'm going to receive a lot of backlash, I'm not going to be bothered by it. Everyone needs to know the truth, we all need Christ. Christ is not an opinion, Christ is not a religion, Christ IS TRUTH. For those who don't believe, invite the Lord into your heart and you will see change in your life beyond your imagination! The Lord does not hate YOU, He hates the SIN in you. He hates it because He sees how the sin is DESTROYING you, and how you are OBLIVIOUS to it, how the sin is destroying is child, and therefore He hates it.

You must understand that the Lord is our father. He made us. Which parent in their right mind would allow their own children to play with fire? He didn't come up with a set of rules just because he did not like certain things, he came up with these rules to PROTECT YOU FROM SIN. I have seen and experienced how lust, pride, homosexuality, wrath, gluttony and other sins that the Lord condemns harm a person without themselves ever realising it.

Please have a look at the link below. I apologise first if I am not able to answer your questions, for I am a new Christian. I will however, try my best. All I know is that I'm burning with passion to spread the word of the Lord so that YOU can SEE THE TRUTH. A passion that YOU TOO can experience if you ACCEPT THE LORD. I am gay, struggle with pornography and masturbation, struggle with sustaining a relationship with my parents. I can go on. I don't hate you, understand that. I want you to see what I have seen. How sinful we all are.

A Sermon on Christ for Atheists (Paul Washer w/ Dutch Translator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMXDYeYza0I

I'm a Christian and I want to tell you that you are wasting your time. I'm not trying to be rude to you but I don't sugar-coat my words. Dedicate your time to people who actually want your help and want to listen. That's all.

[Carlyle]

Trying to get some people to admit to the fact or accept it is really a futile thing to do. If there atheists, let them be, you have no right to try to turn them. The Bible is also no proof what so ever. For all we know, it was written thousands (if that) of years ago to scare people into avoiding certain things that qualified as "sins".. What real proof is there of a god?

[Clawhammer]

I'm flattered that you're willing to reach out to people. Well done, I'm glad it's going well for you. Truth of it all is, though, that not everyone is meant to know the truth. I want to be a Christian, but God has "hardened my heart" against Him. Believe me, I tried. You know how they always talk about how people see hard times of doubt and such, but God brings you back and reassures you? What if that doesn't happen? What if you are simply unable to love Him? God saves the elect. I wasn't chosen. I'm glad it works for you, but I just hope I can play my part with Judas, though I never chose it. There is no free will, only His. I'm happy for you.

[embers]

I'm ready for the Second Shitting

[Sage]

"I don't like christians, so I'm going to say you're a troll then ban you heheheh"

Where do I even begin here?

1) I never said I don't like Christians. I don't like Christianity, but that has nothing to do with my post.
2) I never said the OP is a troll, I said the OP is setting himself up as a target, intentionally or unintentionally.
3) I can't ban people even if I want to.
4) I would come down just as hard on anyone else of a different religion (or lack of religion) who made it perfectly clear that nothing is going to change their mind.
5) If you have a problem with how the rules are enforced, take it up privately.

I'm eager to see what the real point of this thread is beyond the soapbox.

[Veon]

So much text! Can't...read...all...of....it.
I need objects in my life, I just want to be happy in my own way.
EYE WANA HAV FUNN IN LIFE!
I think of Christ as someone who is non-existing and yet he is actually here.

[Sage]

I think of Christ as someone who is non-existing and yet he is actually here.

That's usually a symptom of psychosis.

[DarkHorses]

Well, I don't agree with all of that, because I don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. But aside from that, I think that everybody does need God. If it weren't for him we would be nothing, and without him we are nothing. You could say I was happy when I didn't consider myself a Christian, but not nearly as happy as I am with God back in my life. But I don't think that religion is something that can be sold. You can stand on a street corner and preach the word of God but you'll fall on deaf ears unless there's a person who truly wants to listen. Yes, I do believe it is up to Christians to spread the word of God. But religion is a choice. To believe is a choice. I think too often we forget that, and we think that if we use the right words, if we quote enough bible passages, then we'll change someone's life. But like I said, that only works if they're willing to listen.

My advice to atheists is not to be so set in your ways. Yes, I'm a Christian. But no, if an atheist came up to me and tried to tell me there was no God, I don't think I would walk away. Partly because I love an argument and partly because I would genuinely be interested in their opinion. Would I believe it? No. But I would listen. Because in the end we have no way of knowing who is right or wrong. So why not give everyone a chance to share what they think is right?

One suggestion I do have for you though, Blank, is not to tell people of their sins when you are trying to get them to listen. Speak of God's love for everyone, of his sacrifice and what he did for us and continues to do for us. I'd much rather hear that then I'm going to Hell if I am homosexual. It's all about the approach, and I think what angers atheists is that they are threatened with religion rather than told the things that really matter. It causes a lot of misconception when it comes to Christianity. Yes, it's important to believe and to lead a moral life. But it's more important to know that God will always love you, no matter what. Because if you don't know that for certain, why believe?

I try to keep my mind open. I'm a Christian, but it's not my place to judge you if you're not. And not to sound offensive, but I find that Christians and atheists alike complain that they are judged by those who believe differently. It is assumed that atheists are immoral, and it's assumed that Christians all want to shove religion down your throat. I can attest that neither are true. If we let go of the grudge we have against each other it would be a lot easier to get along, and to listen.

[Neptune]

LOL.

[Amnesiac]

This thread is the most fucking irritating thing I've ever read.

Nothing pisses me off more than people who rub their religion and moral beliefs in other peoples' faces.

[TheGangstaSheep]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pou6RrQDbbc :)

[deadpie]

Well, I don't agree with all of that, because I don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. But aside from that, I think that everybody does need God. If it weren't for him we would be nothing

I don't need God. Why would I love someone who created me with so many dysfunctions if he is real? God gave me type one diabetes, he gave me tritanopia, he made my stomach attack itself, he gave me all these mental illness's, all of my hallucinations, and delusions. God let my friends die. God let me die. God separated me from the people that mattered to me and smashed them to fucking pieces. God let me get fucked in the ass on almost a daily basis for four years. God let my friend get raped by his father. God let my friend get raped by a priest. Et al.

Let me tell you this. I don't need anyone's stupid mother fucking dumb piece of garbage fucking God. I'd rather live a life as an atheist where I believe all these things just happened because shit sucks, then to rather think someone who COULD do something did fucking nothing.

I don't give a shit if this is heated or not even a debate at this point, but I'm just letting it out.

and without him we are nothing.

You're less than zero with religion.

But religion is a choice.

Is it though? When you shove it down someone's throat from the beginning of birth? When you have to go knocking on fucking doors so everyone is reminded about the miracle of Jesus? When you have "Under God" in the pledge, where instead of Happy Holidays it's Merry Christmas. Christianity is a fucking fist wanting to take over and swallow everything whole. This is why I respect jewish people - they convince people to not join their religion four times before letting them proceed to become one of them.

that only works if they're willing to listen.

I'm listening, I'm just calling bullshit on all of it.

if an atheist came up to me and tried to tell me there was no God

Yes, because an atheist will randomly walk up to you, not knowing who you are, then say, "Hey, there's no God!" Typically an atheist won't say something like this unless the conversation is brought up.

I don't think I would walk away.

There's no difference between walking away and being so closed minded that when you listen it's like you have your fingers plugging your ears for you to not hear a single word.

Because in the end we have no way of knowing who is right or wrong.

All religious Gods we know of can be debunked with simple logic, evidence (or lack there off), and science.

Yes, it's important to believe and to lead a moral life.

This is what also bothers me about you Christians. You act like we just don't have morals. Morals come from common sense. You can have a moral life as an atheist. WOW! ISN'T THAT A SHOCKER?

But it's more important to know that God will always love you, no matter what.

Which is why everyone is going straight to Hell.

[aperson444]

I prefer prophet Mohammed to Christ. I'm technically agnostic, but out of Judaism, Christianity and Islam (three Judaeo-Christian religions), I prefer Islam.

But they both were people with the same god damn idea! They didn't want us to go around believing each story in the Qu'ran and Bible as reality. They wanted us to live as decent, loving human beings. That's something religion has lost these days. It's no longer about helping fellow mankind.

By shoving morals down the throat of others, you are going against the very meaning of "God".

[Jean Poutine]

I'm extremely, extremely surprised that nobody brought Pascal's gambit in this shithole of a thread yet.

[Rawwwrr]

You just neg rep'd me for not agreeing with you.

You really are classy as fuck aren't you?

You try to force your religion upon everyone, then claim that we're in the wrong.

[deadpie]

I'm extremely, extremely surprised that nobody brought Pascal's gambit in this shithole of a thread yet.

But we all know there's tons of different religions out there, so how do you know if you're putting your faith in the right one? That kind of just destroys the whole idea. The possibility of choosing the correct religion is quite small when you consider all of them to be equally possible and add how many religions there is.

Also, it's very irrational to base your belief on a bet. :l

[Jean Poutine]

But we all know there's tons of different religions out there, so how do you know if you're putting your faith in the right one? That kind of just destroys the whole idea. The possibility of choosing the correct religion is quite small when you consider all of them to be equally possible and add how many religions there is.

Also, it's very irrational to base your belief on a bet. :l

All I'm saying is that other Christians that love "spreading the word" and converting us poor heathens seem to also love Pascal's gambit. It's the first time I've seen someone so devoid of pseudo-rationalism that he didn't even think about using it.

That being said : http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/notes.html#7

[Blank]

You just neg rep'd me for not agreeing with you.

You really are classy as fuck aren't you?

You try to force your religion upon everyone, then claim that we're in the wrong.

I did no such thing. I could care less if you had a full green bar and I a full red one.

I'm classy cause I don't cuss ;)

[Veon]

That's usually a symptom of psychosis.

Does that mean I'm retarded?
Awww, darn it :(

[Suicune]

I'm classy cause I don't cuss ;)

No, you're not.

[StoppingTime]

I'm classy cause I don't cuss ;)

Yea, I agree with Marcus, this is meaningless.

[TheMatrix]

As a member of the team saying negating today's resolution "We need God in or lives", I offer the following three reasons.
To clarify the debate, I offer the following definitions:

"Faith" is defined as the belief in a god, deity, or other supernatrual being
"Contradiction" is the opposition of views by the same party


My value is reason, and my value-criterion is "God does not exist because of reason".

Reason 1: God, as you may very well know, is not real. Can you provide real, solid evidence that can be proven right here, right now? No?
Didn't think so ;)
That's okay. I'll get back to that later.

Reason 2: So anyways, as others have said, can you explain the contradictions between the old and new testament? Is that a no?
We're on a roll now! ;)

Reason 3: Or how about why for some reason, other religions such as those of ancient Greece, Egypt, etc have all been disproven and scorned at, especially by Christians, while whenever someone tries to disprove Christianity, then they're evil and stupid? You say "because they are, because of this and this reason"?
Well, because they used reason to disprove it, you will have to use the opposite(namely, stupidity and faith, which has no factual basis), and thus agreeing with me that there is no such thing as God. And since you agreed with me earlier that you could not prove there was God right now and the bible is full of contradictions(effectively rendering it useless), my value and value-criterion has been recognised, and I can now sum up the debate.

Conclusion: God does not exist because it cannot be proven right now that he exists, there are contradictions in the bible, and because of reason.
Thank you.

I'm classy cause I don't cuss ;)
You've been quoted in my sig! :yeah:

[trooneh]

I did no such thing. I could care less if you had a full green bar and I a full red one.

I'm classy cause I don't cuss ;)

You aren't classy when you attempt to force others into your belief system. Therefore, you are not classy.

You say to believe in Jesus? I'm Jewish, what if I brought up the old suspicion that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus? What would you say if I claimed credit for killing your beloved savior, and then asserted that I enjoyed it?

You would be upset with me for attempting to challenge you and provoke you, right?

That's what you are doing now.

[Riley6606]

Nah man, the devil protects me

[landone]

K firstly: too long didn't read. Secondly, I am a christian, but preaching on this site isn't going to do squat. Everyone here has their minds set on their religion or lack thereof and are not going to change their opinions.

And all I have to say is Christians on here need to stop shoving it down other peoples' throats and the atheists need to stop bashing Christians and calling the bible a fairy tale book. It's offensive. Rather than attacking Christians, just attack Christianity for Pete's sake.

Why must religion be so controversial here at VT?

Grr.

[TheMatrix]

And all I have to say is Christians on here need to stop shoving it down other peoples' throats and the atheists need to stop bashing Christians and calling the bible a fairy tale book. It's offensive. Rather than attacking Christians, just attack Christianity for Pete's sake.
That would effectively destroy the purpose of this thread. Or debate in general.

Why must religion be so controversial here at VT?

Grr.
Some of us are confused, and therefore seek help. This, in turn, sparks a debate. It's like me asking what the best type of plane is(cue Michael and Brice :P). One could say Cessna, the other Boeing. This could lead me to say "Why must planes be so controversial on VT? Grr."
But it would simply be because everyone has differing opinions.

Or, if you want to look at it from a completely different aspect: A world without conflict and opposition would be quite boring, no?

[embers]

I prefer prophet Mohammed to Christ.

Oh god no.

[jonte95]

You must not know what "proof" means, because the Bible is not proof, and neither are random testimonies. I can post a video saying that I had amazing sex with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but that doesn't make it true.

I always find it entertaining when people say that Jesus is fact/truth/insertBShere. It makes me laugh, and then I remember why religion has become such a poison to the planet.

A) don't fucking say homosexuality is a sin. If you're so Christian, try being more like Christ. Wanna know what he said about homosexuality? Absolutely nothing. And if you're talking about Leviticus, then that means that you must also apply laws such as those that forbid you from shaving, forbid you from wearing clothing with mixed fabrics, forbid you from touching a woman on her period, forbid you from getting piercings or tattoos, forbid you from being uncircumcised. All of those laws are in Leviticus, and none of those seems to apply anymore, so why does homosexuality? Picking and choosing what you believe from your Holy Book is really cheap.

B) there is not one, single scrap of evidence that any deity or deities exist. Nothing. So your argument goes against logic and evidence, and is therefore invalid, and you have no point to make.

I love threads like these. It reminds me how nice it is to think critically and logically, which you seem to be incapable of doing.

Edit: One more thing. I was hard-ass Christian for a large chunk of my life. I prayed before every meal and before bed every night and I believed very firmly that God was there for us, and that he was watching over all of us. Because of the family that I was raised in, we (my siblings and I) weren't given any alternative other than Christianity. But when all of my prayers continued to go unanswered, and I continued to be ignored by God, I started doing my research. And I found that God doesn't exist. So, no, accepting God may give you the illusion that your life is better, but it's just that: an illusion. Accepting God doesn't change shit.

There's evidence that the soul leaves the body when you die. If there's no God, then where is that soul going, it must go somewhere.

My cousin who's like 3 years old got healed from epilepsy by a christian. How did that happen if there's no god?

Do you believe in aliens and UFOs? They are demons, people who claim they've been abducted say that it would stop when they shouted for Jesus.

Why would a christian lie (which atheists obviously think), just to try to save you? Lying is a sin. Why would they lie to lead someone to Jesus. Doesn't make sense.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Also, if your prayers aren't getting answered, you pray wrong. You have to have faith and believe whatever you pray about it going to get answered not hope or wish because that's not faith. http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm
That's how you get prayers answered.

Were you even baptised in the Holy spirit? Did you read the bible and so? Reading the bible is good it opens your eyes to Jesus, the truth.

Just because you're a christian doesn't mean life will be easy and so. Satan and his forces wants to do everything to keep everyone from Jesus Christ. He's spreading lies in your mind and makes you doubt, and he's a deceiver.

Look at this testimony: http://www.near-death.com/storm.html

He was shown hell and saved by Jesus.

"He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything. Anything that wasn't seen, touched, or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else."

I don't need God. Why would I love someone who created me with so many dysfunctions if he is real? God gave me type one diabetes, he gave me tritanopia, he made my stomach attack itself, he gave me all these mental illness's, all of my hallucinations, and delusions. God let my friends die. God let me die. God separated me from the people that mattered to me and smashed them to fucking pieces. God let me get fucked in the ass on almost a daily basis for four years. God let my friend get raped by his father. God let my friend get raped by a priest. Et al.

Let me tell you this. I don't need anyone's stupid mother fucking dumb piece of garbage fucking God. I'd rather live a life as an atheist where I believe all these things just happened because shit sucks, then to rather think someone who COULD do something did fucking nothing.


That wasn't of God, it's of the Devil. Read "More than conquerors by Terry Mize" and you'll learn. God gave you free will, you could just have prayed to him and by faith be healed.

You need Jesus Christ, he's the only way to heaven. Time is short, he's coming soon, people all over the world have been seeing 11 everywhere and clocks that would reset at 11:11 after power outages.

"After that I saw another vision of a very bright shining clock. It was made of gold. The time shown was twelve o'clock. But I saw a hand make the clock go back to eleven o'clock. The Lord told me, "Look, My servant, I take the time back because My people are not prepared as I want them to be, I am taking the time back, because My people don't praise Me as I want, that is why, because of My great mercy I am giving a last chance, so that everyone that comes to My feet shall receive eternal life"
http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/8_year_old_girl/English_Rapture_and_Tribulation.htm

Read that testimony.

Wouldn't you rather believe that there is a god, than not believe, just to die and find out that there is a god?

Hell was meant for the devil and his angels, you think that place would be nice then? There's eternal suffering down there.

I have Aspergers syndrome myself.

I've had voice hallucinations for almost a month. But I wasn't really a practicing christian back then (I'm 15 now) I was like 13 or 14 then. I didn't really know about God's word and my authority. I could have rebuked them in the name of Jesus and I'm sure it would have stopped.

My parents are christian, but it's not until now (these 3 months) I've started taking my faith seriously. I can tell that all years without being practising < 2-3 months with Jesus christ, being baptised in the holy spirit.

You know, I've had a harsh life too. But when I started reading the bible and praying for deliverance from pornography and masturbation addiction, and going to church. That's when my eyes got opened.

Accept Jesus Christ as your savior, find a good church (not catholic/orthodox), be baptised in the holy spirit and in water and start reading the bible.

I'm praying for your salvation, and every non-believer here.

[kenoloor]

There's evidence that the soul leaves the body when you die. If there's no God, then where is that soul going, it must go somewhere.

Give me evidence of a soul. Solid evidence. Just a reminder: neither the Bible nor testimonial videos are reliable sources.

My cousin who's like 3 years old got healed from epilepsy by a christian. How did that happen if there's no god?

If you're going to make claims like that, you have to have some sort of proof to back it up, especially when your claims are as outlandish as this one.

Do you believe in aliens and UFOs? They are demons, people who claim they've been abducted say that it would stop when they shouted for Jesus.

No, I don't believe in malevolent aliens, and I certainly don't believe in UFOs. I think that there's a possibility that there might be life elsewhere, but until there is solid proof provided, I have no reason to believe that.

Why would a christian lie (which atheists obviously think), just to try to save you? Lying is a sin. Why would they lie to lead someone to Jesus. Doesn't make sense.

Hypothetical situation:
Someone tells you that your teacher turned 50 today. You spread it around school, and everyone now thinks it's the teacher's birthday. However, you find out that his birthday was, in fact, yesterday, you would find that the information that you spread around the school was false. Does that make you a liar? Not necessarily. It makes you ill-informed, and you didn't check your facts before spreading information.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." - Leviticus 25:44-45

So slavery is totally fine with you.

"You shall not round the edge of your head, nor shall you destroy the edge of your beard." - Leviticus 19:27

I hope you don't shave.

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." - Leviticus 19:19

Mixed fabrics? That's a no-no.

"Any person who curseth his father of mother must be killed." - Leviticus 20:9

Hope you haven't spoken against your parents, or you gotta be killed.

"Say to the Israelites: 'Do not eat any of the fat of cattle, sheep or goats." - Leviticus 7:23

Eaten a steak recently?

"No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured, or deformed." - Leviticus 21:18

So people who are disabled aren't allowed near the altar of God.

Need I say more?

Also, if your prayers aren't getting answered, you pray wrong. You have to have faith and believe whatever you pray about it going to get answered not hope or wish because that's not faith. http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm
That's how you get prayers answered.

Did you even read my post at all? Or did you just say "oh hey, another stupid non-believer" and copypasta your pat remarks. I had complete faith in God, and that he would listen and be there for me. That's what a personal god is.

Were you even baptised in the Holy spirit? Did you read the bible and so? Reading the bible is good it opens your eyes to Jesus, the truth.

Yes, I was baptized. And yes, I've read an extensive amount of the Bible, and because of that, I have found that it is silly and contradictory and rife with bigotry and stupidity. Yeah, I said it.

Just because you're a christian doesn't mean life will be easy and so. Satan and his forces wants to do everything to keep everyone from Jesus Christ. He's spreading lies in your mind and makes you doubt, and he's a deceiver.

So then Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and agnostics and Hindus and atheists are all victims of Satan? Huh.

Look at this testimony: http://www.near-death.com/storm.html

He was shown hell and saved by Jesus.

TESTIMONIES AREN'T FUCKING PROOF!!!!!! I've said this already. I can post any kind of video I want. Maybe I had a philosophical conversation with Scooby-Doo, or I walked on a rainbow or was transported to Australia and back in the middle of the night. I can say whatever the hell I want and call it a testimony. Now please, stop being stupid, and present REAL evidence.

"He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything. Anything that wasn't seen, touched, or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else."

Um...I don't even know what purpose this serves. So I'm just going to laugh.

Oh, and I typed and researched this entire post from my iPod. Props to me.

[Genghis Khan]

I prefer prophet Mohammed to Christ. I'm technically agnostic, but out of Judaism, Christianity and Islam (three Judaeo-Christian religions), I prefer Islam.

That's interesting. Why though?

[emrahcud]

My christ is Ozzy fucking Osbourne

[Vonn]

That wasn't of God, it's of the Devil. Read "More than conquerors by Terry Mize" and you'll learn. God gave you free will, you could just have prayed to him and by faith be healed.

Praying and faith aren't going to heal anybody of emotional/physical abuse. Especially when your prayers aren't answered.

You need Jesus Christ, he's the only way to heaven. Time is short, he's coming soon, people all over the world have been seeing 11 everywhere and clocks that would reset at 11:11 after power outages.

Jesus has been in the habit of missing his own parties lately. Don't count on him showing up anytime soon.

"After that I saw another vision of a very bright shining clock. It was made of gold. The time shown was twelve o'clock. But I saw a hand make the clock go back to eleven o'clock. The Lord told me, "Look, My servant, I take the time back because My people are not prepared as I want them to be, I am taking the time back, because My people don't praise Me as I want, that is why, because of My great mercy I am giving a last chance, so that everyone that comes to My feet shall receive eternal life"
http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/8_year_old_girl/English_Rapture_and_Tribulation.htm

Read that testimony.

I could go for some corn muffins right about now.

Wouldn't you rather believe that there is a god, than not believe, just to die and find out that there is a god?

The options here are Asshole God, Loving God, and No God. Besides, if he's so Great and Forgiving Omg, he'll understand why a lot of people don't believe in him.

Hell was meant for the devil and his angels, you think that place would be nice then? There's eternal suffering down there.

If the Devil's job is to punish the damned, doesn't that make him good? He's doing God a favor, mercilessly torturing the souls he cast aside.

I have Aspergers syndrome myself.

I've had voice hallucinations for almost a month. But I wasn't really a practicing christian back then (I'm 15 now) I was like 13 or 14 then. I didn't really know about God's word and my authority. I could have rebuked them in the name of Jesus and I'm sure it would have stopped.

Sorry, but no. If it were that easy, people would be all over that shit.

My parents are christian, but it's not until now (these 3 months) I've started taking my faith seriously. I can tell that all years without being practising < 2-3 months with Jesus christ, being baptised in the holy spirit.

Hey, that's great for you. Just don't be an asshole about it and you're good.

You know, I've had a harsh life too. But when I started reading the bible and praying for deliverance from pornography and masturbation addiction, and going to church. That's when my eyes got opened.

I sure hope porn and fapping aren't the only defining features of your "harsh life." You didn't elaborate, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and move on.

Accept Jesus Christ as your savior, find a good church (not catholic/orthodox), be baptised in the holy spirit and in water and start reading the bible.

Who are you to say your church is right and others are wrong? Your credibility is no greater than theirs. Remember, don't be an asshole.

I was baptized. It didn't really do much for me.

I'd read the bible, but it's really long and the font is tiny and ugly and I heard from a lot of people that the plot could use a lot of work.

I'm praying for your salvation, and every non-believer here.

You'll do the boring work for me? How very generous of you.

[deadpie]

There's evidence that the soul leaves the body when you die. If there's no God, then where is that soul going, it must go somewhere.

If you're going to say there's evidence for it you should probably provide some.

The association of spirit with air is embedded in a number of ancient languages: the Hebrew ruah ("wind" or "breath") and nefesh, also associated with breathing; the Greek psychein ("to breathe"), which is related to the word psyche for "soul"; and the Latin words anima ("air," "breath," or "life") and spiritus, which also refers to breathing. The soul was seen as departing the body in the dying last breath. [...] In the Old Testament, the soul is life itself, breathing into the body by God.

The "soul," as it first appeared in Greek thought, had a religious though not a Christian origin. It seems, so far as Greece was concerned, to have originated in the teachings of the Pythagoreans, who believed in transmigration. [... They] influenced Plato, and Plato influenced the Father of the Church; in this way the doctrine of the soul as something distinct from the body became part of Christian doctrine. [...] It appears from Plato that doctrines very similar to those subsequently taught by Christianity were widely held in his day by the general public rather than by philosophers.

My cousin who's like 3 years old got healed from epilepsy by a christian. How did that happen if there's no god?

Are you saying that epileptic people can't be Christians? And I'm calling huge bullshit that she was just randomly "healed". Maybe she wasn't even epileptic then.

Do you believe in aliens and UFOs?

I believe the chance of another life form in a universe this big is quite big. This is when you pull out the Drake Equation. Go research it when you have the time.

They are demons, people who claim they've been abducted say that it would stop when they shouted for Jesus.

Big facepalm here. That's your evidence?

Also, if your prayers aren't getting answered, you pray wrong.

So which way is it? Do you have to make your hands a fist, have them put together sticking up, do you need to buy a fancy carpet and worship on it, do I need to put my fucking feet together and play the violin while eating a gigantic cake? What is the precise way to pray?

Were you even baptised in the Holy spirit? Did you read the bible and so? Reading the bible is good it opens your eyes to Jesus, the truth.

I've read The Bible, I think, too many times. Also, the Bible is not proof/truth. "HURRR DURR THE BIBLE IS TRUE BECAUSE IT SAYS SO!"

Just because you're a christian doesn't mean life will be easy and so.

I'm not a Christian though? Lol.

Satan and his forces wants to do everything to keep everyone from Jesus Christ. He's spreading lies in your mind and makes you doubt, and he's a deceiver.

Can you even prove that Satan is real? He's not.

Look at this testimony: http://www.near-death.com/storm.html

OH YEAH! Near Death Experiences. I'll copypasta from my favorite debate towards religion that I ever had on VT

Has anyone ever heard of I Had A Near Death Experience And Now I Can Make A Shitload Of Money Off Of It By Saying I Went To Hell Or Heaven by Dead Pie? Pretty good book. It also explains how near death experiences are actually when the blood from your head starts rushing downwards which can cause that bright light 15 percent of people describe to see.

Also go watch the Penn And Teller Near Death Experience episode.


Also, research time explaining Near Death Experiences are actually not paranormal at all:

In the new study, researchers investigated whether different levels of oxygen and carbon dioxide—the main blood gases—play a role in the mysterious phenomenon.

The team studied 52 heart attack patients who had been admitted to three major hospitals and were eventually resuscitated. Eleven of the patients reported near-death experiences.

During cardiac arrest and resuscitation, blood gases such as CO2 rise or fall because of the lack of circulation and breathing.

"We found that in those patients who experienced the phenomenon, blood carbon-dioxide levels were significantly higher than in those who did not," said team member Zalika Klemenc-Ketis, of the University of Maribor in Slovenia.
Link (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100408-near-death-experiences-blood-carbon-dioxide/)

Other factors, such a patient's sex, age, or religious beliefs—or the time it took to revive them—had no bearing on whether the patients reported near-death experiences.

The drugs used during initial treatment—a suggested explanation for near-death experiences after heart attacks—also didn't seem to correlate with the sensations, according to the study authors.


You're going to see what you want to see. Like the Jesus on a piece of toast. You want to see Jesus on a piece of toast. It's all your brain playing mindtricks on you.

Someone that's Islamic could say they saw an afterlife too. That would prove your religion wrong also mean ALL religions are correct, or in other words, it's all bullshit. Anyone OF any religion could have different stories and they have. So who is to believe? You can't believe anyone. And there's already proof that CO2 is the main factor behind all of it. I'm sorry but what you had was just you loosing a bunch of oxygen.

You need Jesus Christ. he's the only way to heaven.

NAH REALLY? I DIDN'T KNOW YOUR RELIGION SAID THAT! I never knew, after all these fucking debates, that Jesus was actually the way to Heaven. NO WAY! WOW!

Time is short, he's coming soon, people all over the world have been seeing 11 everywhere and clocks that would reset at 11:11 after power outages.

You're basing the second coming off the number 11 being seen everywhere? Also, have you seen the movie Pi? Here's a good quote from it -

Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere.

Wouldn't you rather believe that there is a god, than not believe, just to die and find out that there is a god?

I'm not going to base everything on a bet, especially if it's toward a religion I don't agree with. Now why the hell would I want to be part of something I disagree with or am against?

Hell was meant for the devil and his angels, you think that place would be nice then? There's eternal suffering down there.

This is the problem with Hell - It's never ending. How can you learn your lesson and punishment if your punishment never ends? Also, I hope you realize this, but every single one of us Humans, we're all going to Hell, or a version of Hell, in someone's religion that we don't believe in technically.

I've had voice hallucinations for almost a month.

Ok, so you registered to this forum just to post in this precise thread, then babble your "proof" aka near death experience testimonies that are bullshit, then tell me me you have hallucinations.

But I wasn't really a practicing christian back then (I'm 15 now) I was like 13 or 14 then. I didn't really know about God's word and my authority. I could have rebuked them in the name of Jesus and I'm sure it would have stopped.

I don't know if you know this, but religious delusions are a common symptom of Schizophrenia. Along with the hallucinations you've been having.

You know, I've had a harsh life too. But when I started reading the bible and praying for deliverance from pornography and masturbation addiction, and going to church. That's when my eyes got opened.

Lol, there's no such thing as masturbation addiction. Porn isn't evil. You're a joke.

[Jess]

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

and if a girl is raped, she has to marry her rapist.

Were you even baptised in the Holy spirit? Did you read the bible and so? Reading the bible is good it opens your eyes to Jesus, the truth.

Yep I read the Bible. I found loads of crap and contradictions in it.

Also, if your prayers aren't getting answered, you pray wrong. You have to have faith and believe whatever you pray about it going to get answered not hope or wish because that's not faith. http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm
That's how you get prayers answered.

suuuuuuuuuuure.

There's evidence that the soul leaves the body when you die. If there's no God, then where is that soul going, it must go somewhere.

and the evidence is...?

You need Jesus Christ, he's the only way to heaven.

No I freaking do not

[Genghis Khan]

God gave you free will

YKss2uYpih8

[Vonn]

Also, WBC.

Everybody says they're crazy people and I'm quite honestly surprised they haven't been sniped yet, but honestly, in terms of credibility, they could be right. They could be wrong. Most of the population disagrees with them, hard, at top volume. But that doesn't change the fact that they could be right.

Religion is just...annoying. It seems like so much stress over something that's a big fat maybe. For all the people that love Jesus and God and enjoy their relationship with them (him?) and love everybody equally regardless of their sins and leave it at that, that's wonderful. That's what it should be about, in my opinion.

[Jean Poutine]

Why would a christian lie (which atheists obviously think), just to try to save you? Lying is a sin. Why would they lie to lead someone to Jesus. Doesn't make sense.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

too bad the word "lie" in this quote refers to having sex, and not deceiving. derpamundo.

[StoppingTime]

DISCLAIMER: I believe in God (Jewish), but what you're saying isn't all true.




There's evidence that the soul leaves the body when you die. If there's no God, then where is that soul going, it must go somewhere.

Can you show me a source? I have never seen this proved.


My cousin who's like 3 years old got healed from epilepsy by a christian. How did that happen if there's no god?

This has nothing to do with you being christian. It has to do with the fact that the person was healed due to good medical treatments. It doesn't matter who treated them. God wasn't working through the person, also. If they prayed, then there is a chance He would answer.


Do you believe in aliens and UFOs? They are demons, people who claim they've been abducted say that it would stop when they shouted for Jesus.

Just no. This is absolutely ridiculous. Again, proof please.


Why would a christian lie (which atheists obviously think), just to try to save you? Lying is a sin. Why would they lie to lead someone to Jesus. Doesn't make sense.

Well, seeing as they are following a false religion, they are lying. They just choose to believe its the "truth". Explain to me how it was OK for "Jesus" to change the Old Testament even though it is the word of God, and therefore is perfect and can't be changed? Hmmmm.....
And also, atheists don't think they are lying, they just don't believe because there isn't any proof.


Also, if your prayers aren't getting answered, you pray wrong. You have to have faith and believe whatever you pray about it going to get answered not hope or wish because that's not faith. http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm
That's how you get prayers answered.
:yes: noooooo that is not true. This also doesn't make sense. First of all, Jesus was no different from anyone else, so thats one reason. Also, there is no way to pray. If God sees that you deserve for what you're asking, He will give it to you. It doesn't matter how you ask.

Say you're in Church (mass?), and you don't know how to read, but you know the alphabet. Your a young kid, and you are asking God to help you with something wrong in your family. Are you saying God wont answer you because you can't read the songs? Or if you recite the alphabet, but have in mind what you want to ask, will God acknowledge that?


Were you even baptised in the Holy spirit? Did you read the bible and so? Reading the bible is good it opens your eyes to Jesus, the truth.

Once again, this is wrong. How did Jesus change the Bible? How was he allowed to do that? and don't tell me he was God's son. Show me proof of that.


"He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything. Anything that wasn't seen, touched, or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else."

So what? Some people believe this, and there isn't anything wrong with them. They are perfectly good people. In fact, they're better than christians trying "Save everyone from their horrible ways and want to show them the truth........"



You need Jesus Christ, he's the only way to heaven. Time is short, he's coming soon, people all over the world have been seeing 11 everywhere and clocks that would reset at 11:11 after power outages.

What?????????



Wouldn't you rather believe that there is a god, than not believe, just to die and find out that there is a god?


God doesn't want people like yourself trying to spread the word about religion. If people are respectful, and just overall good people, (and should follow the seven laws of Noah, but I won't go there now), then they are just as good as anyone else.


I've had voice hallucinations for almost a month. But I wasn't really a practicing christian back then (I'm 15 now) I was like 13 or 14 then. I didn't really know about God's word and my authority. I could have rebuked them in the name of Jesus and I'm sure it would have stopped.

Great you heard hallucinations! JESUSSSSSSSS!!!!! :no:



Accept Jesus Christ as your savior, find a good church (not catholic/orthodox), be baptised in the holy spirit and in water and start reading the bible.

I'm praying for your salvation, and every non-believer here.

What you're doing is worthless and rude. Does god want you spreading the word like this?

[jonte95]

Give me evidence of a soul. Solid evidence. Just a reminder: neither the Bible nor testimonial videos are reliable sources.



If you're going to make claims like that, you have to have some sort of proof to back it up, especially when your claims are as outlandish as this one.



No, I don't believe in malevolent aliens, and I certainly don't believe in UFOs. I think that there's a possibility that there might be life elsewhere, but until there is solid proof provided, I have no reason to believe that.



Hypothetical situation:
Someone tells you that your teacher turned 50 today. You spread it around school, and everyone now thinks it's the teacher's birthday. However, you find out that his birthday was, in fact, yesterday, you would find that the information that you spread around the school was false. Does that make you a liar? Not necessarily. It makes you ill-informed, and you didn't check your facts before spreading information.



"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." - Leviticus 25:44-45

So slavery is totally fine with you.

"You shall not round the edge of your head, nor shall you destroy the edge of your beard." - Leviticus 19:27

I hope you don't shave.

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." - Leviticus 19:19

Mixed fabrics? That's a no-no.

"Any person who curseth his father of mother must be killed." - Leviticus 20:9

Hope you haven't spoken against your parents, or you gotta be killed.

"Say to the Israelites: 'Do not eat any of the fat of cattle, sheep or goats." - Leviticus 7:23

Eaten a steak recently?

"No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured, or deformed." - Leviticus 21:18

So people who are disabled aren't allowed near the altar of God.

Need I say more?



Did you even read my post at all? Or did you just say "oh hey, another stupid non-believer" and copypasta your pat remarks. I had complete faith in God, and that he would listen and be there for me. That's what a personal god is.



Yes, I was baptized. And yes, I've read an extensive amount of the Bible, and because of that, I have found that it is silly and contradictory and rife with bigotry and stupidity. Yeah, I said it.



So then Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and agnostics and Hindus and atheists are all victims of Satan? Huh.



TESTIMONIES AREN'T FUCKING PROOF!!!!!! I've said this already. I can post any kind of video I want. Maybe I had a philosophical conversation with Scooby-Doo, or I walked on a rainbow or was transported to Australia and back in the middle of the night. I can say whatever the hell I want and call it a testimony. Now please, stop being stupid, and present REAL evidence.



Um...I don't even know what purpose this serves. So I'm just going to laugh.

Oh, and I typed and researched this entire post from my iPod. Props to me.

Yes I've eaten pork, shellfish recently. However, I've read arguments that Jesus made it pure again.

Yes, on general principle. The Law of Moses is still in effect for those of the Jewish faith, but Christians are under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. "Acts 10 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (NIV) Because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law, we who follow Him are not obligated to follow the Law of Moses. He has made all things clean by His New Covenant.

However, I'll look more into it. People say different things, some claim it still persists.


So then Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and agnostics and Hindus and atheists are all victims of Satan? Huh.


Jesus says "If you aren't for me, you're against me".


Satan wants to keep everyone from Jesus. He's a deceiver, liar and he and his forces are working to keep people from Jesus.


You have no idea how horrible hell is, it was meant for satan and his angels.


Praying and faith aren't going to heal anybody of emotional/physical abuse. Especially when your prayers aren't answered.



Jesus has been in the habit of missing his own parties lately. Don't count on him showing up anytime soon.



I could go for some corn muffins right about now.



The options here are Asshole God, Loving God, and No God. Besides, if he's so Great and Forgiving Omg, he'll understand why a lot of people don't believe in him.



If the Devil's job is to punish the damned, doesn't that make him good? He's doing God a favor, mercilessly torturing the souls he cast aside.



Sorry, but no. If it were that easy, people would be all over that shit.



Hey, that's great for you. Just don't be an asshole about it and you're good.



I sure hope porn and fapping aren't the only defining features of your "harsh life." You didn't elaborate, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and move on.

[QUOTE=jonte95;1507414]Accept Jesus Christ as your savior, find a good church (not catholic/orthodox), be baptised in the holy spirit and in water and start reading the bible.[QUOTE=jonte95;1507414]

Who are you to say your church is right and others are wrong? Your credibility is no greater than theirs. Remember, don't be an asshole.

I was baptized. It didn't really do much for me.

I'd read the bible, but it's really long and the font is tiny and ugly and I heard from a lot of people that the plot could use a lot of work.

You'll do the boring work for me? How very generous of you.

It's boring because you don't have the hunger, same goes for church, you need the hunger and thirst for it, I thought it was boring too. But let Jesus open your eyes and heart for him, I did that.



Jesus missing his own parties? What do you mean?

You know that guy who said the rapture would be in May 2011 has repented and said sorry?

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
-Matthew 24:36

There's internet bibles, and there's slimline bibles with bigger fonts etc.

Because catholics worship mary and saints which is idolatry. There's a testimony of someone who's been in heaven, she said she saw mary there wondering why they pray to her etc:::

http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/8_year_old_girl/English_Rapture_and_Tribulation.htm


The devil has blinded all non-believers!! It makes so much sense! I feel like a new person in christ now! Whenever I pray for him to cure me from headache/neckpain/sore troath/stomach pain, he does it, healing me through my faith, believing that he can do it!


Jesus chrisy loves you and is waiting for you to come to him! Just believe! Everyone gets doubts sometimes, it's our carnal nature!




Jesus will come in the skies soon with his angels, it's foretold in thw bible that the angels will blow their trumpets.




If you're going to say there's evidence for it you should probably provide some.







Are you saying that epileptic people can't be Christians? And I'm calling huge bullshit that she was just randomly "healed". Maybe she wasn't even epileptic then.



I believe the chance of another life form in a universe this big is quite big. This is when you pull out the Drake Equation. Go research it when you have the time.



Big facepalm here. That's your evidence?



So which way is it? Do you have to make your hands a fist, have them put together sticking up, do you need to buy a fancy carpet and worship on it, do I need to put my fucking feet together and play the violin while eating a gigantic cake? What is the precise way to pray?



I've read The Bible, I think, too many times. Also, the Bible is not proof/truth. "HURRR DURR THE BIBLE IS TRUE BECAUSE IT SAYS SO!"



I'm not a Christian though? Lol.



Can you even prove that Satan is real? He's not.



OH YEAH! Near Death Experiences. I'll copypasta from my favorite debate towards religion that I ever had on VT

Has anyone ever heard of I Had A Near Death Experience And Now I Can Make A Shitload Of Money Off Of It By Saying I Went To Hell Or Heaven by Dead Pie? Pretty good book. It also explains how near death experiences are actually when the blood from your head starts rushing downwards which can cause that bright light 15 percent of people describe to see.

Also go watch the Penn And Teller Near Death Experience episode.


Also, research time explaining Near Death Experiences are actually not paranormal at all:

In the new study, researchers investigated whether different levels of oxygen and carbon dioxide—the main blood gases—play a role in the mysterious phenomenon.

The team studied 52 heart attack patients who had been admitted to three major hospitals and were eventually resuscitated. Eleven of the patients reported near-death experiences.

During cardiac arrest and resuscitation, blood gases such as CO2 rise or fall because of the lack of circulation and breathing.

"We found that in those patients who experienced the phenomenon, blood carbon-dioxide levels were significantly higher than in those who did not," said team member Zalika Klemenc-Ketis, of the University of Maribor in Slovenia.
Link (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100408-near-death-experiences-blood-carbon-dioxide/)

Other factors, such a patient's sex, age, or religious beliefs—or the time it took to revive them—had no bearing on whether the patients reported near-death experiences.

The drugs used during initial treatment—a suggested explanation for near-death experiences after heart attacks—also didn't seem to correlate with the sensations, according to the study authors.


You're going to see what you want to see. Like the Jesus on a piece of toast. You want to see Jesus on a piece of toast. It's all your brain playing mindtricks on you.

Someone that's Islamic could say they saw an afterlife too. That would prove your religion wrong also mean ALL religions are correct, or in other words, it's all bullshit. Anyone OF any religion could have different stories and they have. So who is to believe? You can't believe anyone. And there's already proof that CO2 is the main factor behind all of it. I'm sorry but what you had was just you loosing a bunch of oxygen.



NAH REALLY? I DIDN'T KNOW YOUR RELIGION SAID THAT! I never knew, after all these fucking debates, that Jesus was actually the way to Heaven. NO WAY! WOW!



You're basing the second coming off the number 11 being seen everywhere? Also, have you seen the movie Pi? Here's a good quote from it -





I'm not going to base everything on a bet, especially if it's toward a religion I don't agree with. Now why the hell would I want to be part of something I disagree with or am against?



This is the problem with Hell - It's never ending. How can you learn your lesson and punishment if your punishment never ends? Also, I hope you realize this, but every single one of us Humans, we're all going to Hell, or a version of Hell, in someone's religion that we don't believe in technically.



Ok, so you registered to this forum just to post in this precise thread, then babble your "proof" aka near death experience testimonies that are bullshit, then tell me me you have hallucinations.



I don't know if you know this, but religious delusions are a common symptom of Schizophrenia. Along with the hallucinations you've been having.



Lol, there's no such thing as masturbation addiction. Porn isn't evil. You're a joke.

I didn't say someone with epilepsy can't be christian, did I?

My cousin is like 3 years, he's under the age of accountability. If he had epileptic attacks and was diagnosed with it then obviously he has it. But he got healed.


There are people who have been raised from the dead in the name of Jesus.


You know, Jesus gave you free will. I'm just telling you, I thought the bible and church was boring before too, but when I started reading it, seeking Jesus and praying for deliverance from porn, masturbation I felt my eyes being opened and I got the hunger for church and the word which the pastor preached about.


No all humans aren't going to hell, that's a lie from the devil.


"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
-John 3:16


The devil wants to keep you from Jesus at all costs, it's your choice to seek Jesus and to accept him or not, you have to accept him as your saviour!






Here's some things that happened to me:

When I was like 7 years old, I saw Jesus when I woke up crying after a nightmare. He was shining in light blue and his eyes too, and looked really peaceful and nice. He said with a humble mighty voice "Don't be afraid, Jonathan".

When I was like 6 or 7 years, I stumbled on a pavement stone in the neighbourhood, and as I stumbled, a scooter was already on it's way down the street. So I got overrun and fell into a thornbush that was there, atleast I was told so. I didn't get hurt at all, the angels protected me, and a guy on bicycle saw the accident and wore me all the way home.

When I was like 8 or 9 years, a sudden loud flash of lightning hit the ground in the neighbourhood just a few steps away from me. I was protected.

When I was 14 years, I slipped on ice backwards and didn't get hurt, and 1 week prior to that I slipped sideways on ice. I didn't get hurt, you'd always hear people getting arms and legs fractured.

Porn is evil, masturbation too. Why else would I feel such guilt and feel like my day is ruined when I masturbate? Masturbation falls under sexual immorality and perversion. Porn is adultery, lust after flesh which is sin.

You don't think it's sin etc because satan holds non-believers blinded. He deceived Eve and Adam through Eve.

Look: I had a whole month of problems with sleeping when I was like 13 or 14 years. It was due to voices that would say clear sounding stuff like "Where areee yoouuuuu, Jonathan?" with a seeking voice, and always a female voice, and "I seeee yoouuuuu!". If I recall right, they even said "I will come and takeee yooouuu!" I heard them the most at night.

At the day, I'd sometimes hear a voice sounding like my grandma (who's alive) saying "Joonaathaan, where areee yoouuu!?"

Wouldn't surprise me if it was demons since I had nightmares that month too, and I remember one really creepy:

I was running on a long narrow path in the night which is a real life place in my city. When I started closing in to the end of it, I saw a little girl (around 8-12 years maybe) in white, bit worn-out robe, and she had long black and a bit curly and torn hair. She stood with her back against me and when I got closer to her. If I recall right, she turned around or she still stood with her back against me (I don't remember which), and she said "Joonnaathaaan, I seee yooouu!", or some of the above voices, it was creepy.

Also another sign that it might have been demons, is because when my parents laid their hands on me and prayed, I would hear that voice "Jonaaathhaaan, wheree arreee you!?", or "I seee yooouuu!" I don't remember which.

Sometimes I would hear the sound of trotting/galopping hooves clearly in the night (I live in a neighbourhood in the city). When I slept over at my grandma's place once, I would hear a clear annoying song with female voice in my head singing "O-o-ooh, Heaven is on fireee".

I had Ke$ha's TiK ToK song playing in my head that month too, one night.

Sometimes I'd hear drums playing too. We have no drums.

I wasn't a practicing christian that time, and a lot of stuff had happened to me in my younger years (Jesus showed himself to me once at the age of 7/8 for example), read my testimony if you're interested about everything he saved me from.

So I guess I was an easy victim, if it was demons, they probably knew I would become a practicing christian again in a few years, so they wanted to try to destroy my life and try to tear me apart as much as possible, etc.

Now when I think about it. I was involved in a kind of divination around that age, can't remember if it was AFTER or BEFORE the voices began. This girl in my class, who watched series like "Medium and Ghost whisperer", and watched many horror movies. She also claimed that her dad's house was haunted, that it had ghosts. She said doors would open by themselves in the night and stuff like that. I told her she was an idi*t, because she watched such programs etc.

The divination wasn't with real divination cards or so, but. She used cards from a card game (SKIP-BO card game cards), and she would say like "A green card is a NO, a red is a YES, a blue is a MAYBE etc (you get it)". Then she would ask class mates random stuff like "Is your favorite subject maths?", and then pick-up a card and at the most times it would be right. It was something like that, it was divination atleast.

Who knows what she and her family were doing, maybe they were involved in the occult. Maybe she called a curse upon me or something because I insulted her, who knows. Or maybe it was just simply because I took part in her divination game.

Like I said, I don't remember if I attended to this before or after the voices.

Btw, here's a message from Jesus to america: http://www.worldministries.org/IntNL/Church_in_America_Warning.pdf



How about you go read about 11:11? People didn't want to see it, they woke up at times with 11 in it every day, non-christian or christian, many people did, they saw it on receipts, everything.


I didn't ask to see Jesus, he just came to me. There are worse times I would have wanted to have him come down to me at. But I'm just happy I got to see him.




and if a girl is raped, she has to marry her rapist.



Yep I read the Bible. I found loads of crap and contradictions in it.



suuuuuuuuuuure.



and the evidence is...?

Evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4a_Gu49SA

By the way, I came to think off, there's evidence of Nephilim (biblical giants):

http://propheticvoice.co.uk/Nephilim_-_Biblical_Giants

And here's evidence of Pharaoh and his chariots, men in the red sea:

http://propheticvoice.co.uk/Ron_Wyatt_-_Pharaoh_s_army_in_the_Red_Sea

Read the text too, don't just look at the pictures.

Look, how come that when Iraq fires 40 scud missiles into tiny Israel, only one person died directly from a missile attack.

"It was only at the very end of the war that the true capability of a Scud missile was shown, when a single missile hitting a US Marine bunker in Saudi Arabia killed more than 40 men. A much-sobered Israeli public quietly put away the songs and jokes, realizing that the credit for their safely was due elsewhere. Even self-proclaimed atheists began to read their Bibles."

http://propheticvoice.co.uk/1991_Scud_Missiles_into_Israel

Where did you get that from, that when a girl is raped she has to marry the rapist? It happened against her will, so it's not her fault.

[Vonn]

Please fix up your post. It looks like someone bombed it.

It's boring because you don't have the hunger, same goes for church, you need the hunger and thirst for it, I thought it was boring too. But let Jesus open your eyes and heart for him, I did that.

I'm not particularly "hungry" for something that doesn't really make any sense. It might give me indigestion.

Jesus missing his own parties? What do you mean?

People predict his arrival all the time, and he never shows up. Why? Because he doesn't like being told what to do.

You know that guy who said the rapture would be in May 2011 has repented and said sorry?

I'm sorry he's a delusional whackjob.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
-Matthew 24:36

Then why did he even bother predicting anything? Because he's a delusional whackjob. Or maybe he just wanted attention.

There's internet bibles, and there's slimline bibles with bigger fonts etc.

The Bible is a really bad book and I'm not going to waste my time ingesting its nonsense.

Because catholics worship mary and saints which is idolatry. There's a testimony of someone who's been in heaven, she said she saw mary there wondering why they pray to her etc:::

http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documen...ribulation.htm

See that sentence in red? That's where you immediately lose the argument. I could say I went to heaven and saw a really hot guy with bat wings and an eye piercing having sex with a talking station wagon. My word would be just as good as hers (and frankly, mine is more interesting).

The devil has blinded all non-believers!! It makes so much sense! I feel like a new person in christ now! Whenever I pray for him to cure me from headache/neckpain/sore troath/stomach pain, he does it, healing me through my faith, believing that he can do it!

Yes! Blame the Devil for all the bad stuff! Even though you've never seen him before in your life and there's no evidence to indicate that a fallen angel has taken root in the boiling underworld to spend the rest of his (and our) days prodding at the souls of the damned while their non-flesh cooks over an eternal flame forever and ever and ever because God loves you but really, he hates the sinner and the sin lol, so fuck you! Yes! It makes so much sense and everybody should know about this so I'm going to write a really long book about it and it's all going to start with how God made everything -- wait...

Also, the sentence in red again? Bullshit. I just got an IM from Jesus; he said to stop whining about petty pains like a little bitch so he can focus on his knitting.

Jesus chrisy loves you and is waiting for you to come to him! Just believe! Everyone gets doubts sometimes, it's our carnal nature!

I find it really creepy that you think a man that may have lived 2,000~ years ago and hasn't shown his face since then loves you unconditionally for no real reason.

Jesus will come in the skies soon with his angels, it's foretold in thw bible that the angels will blow their trumpets.

I'll be sure to have some popcorn ready.

Do you think they take requests? Angel music has to be ridiculously awesome.

[kenoloor]

Yes I've eaten pork, shellfish recently. However, I've read arguments that Jesus made it pure again.

Yes, on general principle. The Law of Moses is still in effect for those of the Jewish faith, but Christians are under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. "Acts 10 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (NIV) Because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law, we who follow Him are not obligated to follow the Law of Moses. He has made all things clean by His New Covenant.

However, I'll look more into it. People say different things, some claim it still persists.


So then Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and agnostics and Hindus and atheists are all victims of Satan? Huh.


Jesus says "If you aren't for me, you're against me".


Satan wants to keep everyone from Jesus. He's a deceiver, liar and he and his forces are working to keep people from Jesus.


You have no idea how horrible hell is, it was meant for satan and his angels.

So, you answered TWO of the points that I made. And the answer you gave only confirmed how you pick and choose what you believe. If Christians are under the "New Covenant of Jesus Christ" then why is homosexuality considered a sin? Jesus said LITERALLY nothing on the subject of homosexuality. Read the fucking New Testament. So thank you for contributing to the invalidation of your own argument.

Also, you claim that people of every other religion and non-religion are misguided and have been deceived by Satan.
Let me ask you something. Do you believe in the gods of the Greeks? Do you believe in Judaism? Of course not. And why don't you believe in the Greek gods, or Judaism?

And I would be absolutely thrilled if you would respond to the other points I made instead of ignoring them.
Oh, and also
PROOF.

[canadaski]

I respect your opinion and your belief in a higher power just as I hope you respect my atheism.

Religion is not to be taken literally. It is a set of guidelines meant to teach life lessons and morality to people from an early age. This is what religion used to be like until people started interpreting biblical lore as first hand accounts of events that happened.

At the end of the day, you can't prove that god exists and I can't prove that he doesn't. The cycle goes round and round.

[Rawwwrr]

PROOF.

Christians are incapable of providing that which does not exist. it is not fair to ask them to provide it, although one could also argue that it's ridiculous that they believe it in the first place if there's no proof.
Christianity and religion in general is not something that can be proven or disproven and is something that Science can explain, it something outside that realm.


As much as I agree with you, as a fellow atheist, that he has made a seriously weak attempt at an argument, I just felt like I should intervene at this point.

[kenoloor]

Christians are incapable of providing that which does not exist. it is not fair to ask them to provide it, although one could also argue that it's ridiculous that they believe it in the first place if there's no proof.
Christianity and religion in general is not something that can be proven or disproven and is something that Science can explain, it something outside that realm.


As much as I agree with you, as a fellow atheist, that he has made a seriously weak attempt at an argument, I just felt like I should intervene at this point.

I fail to see how it is unfair to ask for proof. If I claim that I have 100 dollars, people want proof. So I show them the 100 dollars. That's proof. Any claim I make, people will want proof. Except for Christianity. So why is religion the big exception? They claim they have 100 dollars, you ask for proof, and their response is, instead of showing you the 100 dollars they say, "you can't disprove it!" Well, by lack of solid proof for so many years, we can come so close to disproving it that it should have become irrelevant by now. But nope. If you're Christian, you don't need proof. Logic is for losers.

[Vonn]

You shouldn't make such a strong statement if you can't back it up. Feel free to believe what you want, but when you're trying to convince other people that you're right and they're wrong and they're going to hell and isn't condescension fun, don't get butthurt when they ask for proof and you can't deliver.

[StoppingTime]

Please fix your post with the quotes....

Yes I've eaten pork, shellfish recently. However, I've read arguments that Jesus made it pure again.

Yes, on general principle. The Law of Moses is still in effect for those of the Jewish faith, but Christians are under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. "Acts 10 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (NIV) Because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law, we who follow Him are not obligated to follow the Law of Moses. He has made all things clean by His New Covenant.

OK, but then since the Old Testament is written by God, it is perfect. therefore, there is no way it can ever be changed. BY ANYONE. Not to mention that he wasn't the son of God. Prove to me that is true, using a verse from the OLD Testament.




So then Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and agnostics and Hindus and atheists are all victims of Satan? Huh.


Huh, your wrong. Again, since Jesus was never mentioned as the son of God in the Old Testament, anything he said was false. Prove to me he was "God's son".
Just because people don't believe in Jesus, doesn't mean they are wrong.


Jesus says "If you aren't for me, you're against me".

So, because he said it, its then true?


Satan wants to keep everyone from Jesus. He's a deceiver, liar and he and his forces are working to keep people from Jesus.


You have no idea how horrible hell is, it was meant for satan and his angels.

So, even though I follow the ORIGINAL Bible of Abrahamic religions, I worship the devil. Cool. And because Jesus said so, and whatever he says go because he was the "son of God". I can't wait for hell....


Praying and faith aren't going to heal anybody of emotional/physical abuse. Especially when your prayers aren't answered.
I sure hope porn and fapping aren't the only defining features of your "harsh life." You didn't elaborate, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and move on.

I forgot to ask him about this, thanks :)


Jesus missing his own parties? What do you mean?

You know that guy who said the rapture would be in May 2011 has repented and said sorry?

There goes one of his main arguments......



Because catholics worship mary and saints which is idolatry. There's a testimony of someone who's been in heaven, she said she saw mary there wondering why they pray to her etc:::

http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/8_year_old_girl/English_Rapture_and_Tribulation.htm

Been to heaven and back to tell the tale? This is your proof of Jesus and Christianity being the only true religion. *Sign me up* /sarcasm


The devil has blinded all non-believers!! It makes so much sense! I feel like a new person in christ now! Whenever I pray for him to cure me from headache/neckpain/sore troath/stomach pain, he does it, healing me through my faith, believing that he can do it!
Yea, go devil worshippers!! We're so cool!
And also, just going to put this out there, I'm sure God cures everything the instant you ask because you have *faith*. Right...... So if any other christian prayed to God for that, do you think it would happen? You think there aren't Christians in the hospital who have MORE "faith" than you, and pray to God to save them, but they still end up dying there? Moving on....


Jesus chrisy loves you and is waiting for you to come to him! Just believe! Everyone gets doubts sometimes, it's our carnal nature!
Jesus will come in the skies soon with his angels, it's foretold in thw bible that the angels will blow their trumpets.

Yea, I see him right now.... Because he said he'd come back, now I have to believe him.


There are people who have been raised from the dead in the name of Jesus.

Show me proof........ Oh wait.... :no:


You know, Jesus gave you free will. I'm just telling you, I thought the bible and church was boring before too, but when I started reading it, seeking Jesus and praying for deliverance from porn, masturbation I felt my eyes being opened and I got the hunger for church and the word which the pastor preached about.

Nope, he didn't do that. God did. But good try. And great, you listen to church and that inspired you. How do you know you wouldnt feel the same way if you went to a different religion? This shows nothing.




"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
-John 3:16

Then, just about everyone in the world won't be living forever....


The devil wants to keep you from Jesus at all costs, it's your choice to seek Jesus and to accept him or not, you have to accept him as your saviour!

Nope. No I dont. He will make things worse.


Here's some things that happened to me:

When I was like 7 years old, I saw Jesus when I woke up crying after a nightmare. He was shining in light blue and his eyes too, and looked really peaceful and nice. He said with a humble mighty voice "Don't be afraid, Jonathan".

Great, you claimed o have saw him, this doesn't help prove your point at all.



When I was like 6 or 7 years, I stumbled on a pavement stone in the neighbourhood, and as I stumbled, a scooter was already on it's way down the street. So I got overrun and fell into a thornbush that was there, atleast I was told so. I didn't get hurt at all, the angels protected me, and a guy on bicycle saw the accident and wore me all the way home.

Same thing. These are just things that happened. Am I denying it is the work of God in these instances? No. Is it because you're christian? No.


When I was like 8 or 9 years, a sudden loud flash of lightning hit the ground in the neighbourhood just a few steps away from me. I was protected.


Same thing as I said before. This has [b]nothing]/b] to do with you being a christian.


Porn is evil, masturbation too. Why else would I feel such guilt and feel like my day is ruined when I masturbate? Masturbation falls under sexual immorality and perversion. Porn is adultery, lust after flesh which is sin.

We do agree on something here.


You don't think it's sin etc because satan holds non-believers blinded. He deceived Eve and Adam through Eve.

But how could this be? We have free will. So we make the choice.... At least thats how Judaism sees it.



Look: I had a whole month of problems with sleeping when I was like 13 or 14 years. It was due to voices that would say clear sounding stuff like "Where areee yoouuuuu, Jonathan?" with a seeking voice, and always a female voice, and "I seeee yoouuuuu!". If I recall right, they even said "I will come and takeee yooouuu!" I heard them the most at night.

At the day, I'd sometimes hear a voice sounding like my grandma (who's alive) saying "Joonaathaan, where areee yoouuu!?"

Wouldn't surprise me if it was demons since I had nightmares that month too, and I remember one really creepy:

I was running on a long narrow path in the night which is a real life place in my city. When I started closing in to the end of it, I saw a little girl (around 8-12 years maybe) in white, bit worn-out robe, and she had long black and a bit curly and torn hair. She stood with her back against me and when I got closer to her. If I recall right, she turned around or she still stood with her back against me (I don't remember which), and she said "Joonnaathaaan, I seee yooouu!", or some of the above voices, it was creepy.

Also another sign that it might have been demons, is because when my parents laid their hands on me and prayed, I would hear that voice "Jonaaathhaaan, wheree arreee you!?", or "I seee yooouuu!" I don't remember which.

Sometimes I would hear the sound of trotting/galopping hooves clearly in the night (I live in a neighbourhood in the city). When I slept over at my grandma's place once, I would hear a clear annoying song with female voice in my head singing "O-o-ooh, Heaven is on fireee".

I had Ke$ha's TiK ToK song playing in my head that month too, one night.

Sometimes I'd hear drums playing too. We have no drums.

I wasn't a practicing christian that time, and a lot of stuff had happened to me in my younger years (Jesus showed himself to me once at the age of 7/8 for example), read my testimony if you're interested about everything he saved me from.

So I guess I was an easy victim, if it was demons, they probably knew I would become a practicing christian again in a few years, so they wanted to try to destroy my life and try to tear me apart as much as possible, etc.

Now when I think about it. I was involved in a kind of divination around that age, can't remember if it was AFTER or BEFORE the voices began. This girl in my class, who watched series like "Medium and Ghost whisperer", and watched many horror movies. She also claimed that her dad's house was haunted, that it had ghosts. She said doors would open by themselves in the night and stuff like that. I told her she was an idi*t, because she watched such programs etc.

The divination wasn't with real divination cards or so, but. She used cards from a card game (SKIP-BO card game cards), and she would say like "A green card is a NO, a red is a YES, a blue is a MAYBE etc (you get it)". Then she would ask class mates random stuff like "Is your favorite subject maths?", and then pick-up a card and at the most times it would be right. It was something like that, it was divination atleast.

Who knows what she and her family were doing, maybe they were involved in the occult. Maybe she called a curse upon me or something because I insulted her, who knows. Or maybe it was just simply because I took part in her divination game.

Like I said, I don't remember if I attended to this before or after the voices.


I'm done with your stories. I'll just be saying the same thing over and over.

http://www.worldministries.org/IntNL/Church_in_America_Warning.pdf
Btw, here's a message from Jesus to america: http://www.worldministries.org/IntNL/Church_in_America_Warning.pdf[/quote]

This_shows_nothing.pdf


How about you go read about 11:11? People didn't want to see it, they woke up at times with 11 in it every day, non-christian or christian, many people did, they saw it on receipts, everything.


No, once again, a meaningless argument.



I didn't ask to see Jesus, he just came to me. There are worse times I would have wanted to have him come down to me at. But I'm just happy I got to see him.

Great. You think you see Jesus. So cool man....







Where did you get that from, that when a girl is raped she has to marry the rapist? It happened against her will, so it's not her fault.

It is a verse, but it's meaning as been lost in translation. Also, we cannot truly understand its meaning because we aren't a high enough spiritual level to understand the Torah as the people whho received it were. Thats why we (Jews) need commentators.

[Rawwwrr]

I fail to see how it is unfair to ask for proof. If I claim that I have 100 dollars, people want proof. So I show them the 100 dollars. That's proof. Any claim I make, people will want proof. Except for Christianity. So why is religion the big exception? They claim they have 100 dollars, you ask for proof, and their response is, instead of showing you the 100 dollars they say, "you can't disprove it!" Well, by lack of solid proof for so many years, we can come so close to disproving it that it should have become irrelevant by now. But nope. If you're Christian, you don't need proof. Logic is for losers.

Because religion is not science - science explains the world around us. Religion is not the world around us, therefore science cannot explain it. That's totally different to 100 dollars which is in the world around us.


You also need to stop being so aggressive with your beliefs. Remember that I'm Atheist just as you are, but the difference is that I'm prepared to empathise and put myself in their shoes and debate on the same level as them, whereas you're content to just believe what you believe, ignore their arguments and just shout about how ignorant and stupid they are.


And anyway, you're hardly convincing anyone here. Any Christians who read your post will continue to believe what they believe and any Atheists who read your post will continue to feel superior to Theists. All it does is reinforce a harmful divide between the two groups.


While your logic is correct; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" etc., you're failing to take into account why they believe what they believe and also why you're making your case in the first place.
They believe it because it gives them hope and happiness in a world where they may find it difficult to find any. You and I find our hope and happiness elsewhere but there's no harm in finding it where they do.
You're acting as if they are somehow making the world a worse place for believing so.
Not to mention you're arguing on a rather null point - you claim their belief is invalid because of a lack of evidence; however most don't believe in religion because of evidence in the first place, so you aren't actually getting anywhere near changing their minds on the topic.



tl;dr: if he wants to make an argument for christianity, one can very reasonably argue a lack of scientific proof leaves him with nothing. However, you are not willing to engage with him or others on a level where you're going to come away even slightly more knowledgeable or experienced in their beliefs.

[kenoloor]

Because religion is not science - science explains the world around us. Religion is not the world around us, therefore science cannot explain it. That's totally different to 100 dollars which is in the world around us.

The problem arises when people such as the OP take their religion and force it into the world around us. For many people, at least those that I know, religion does exist in the world around us. They find God in their life and in the things they do in the world, and the "God-sightings" that they experience. All of those are ways that people see God in the world around us.


You also need to stop being so aggressive with your beliefs. Remember that I'm Atheist just as you are, but the difference is that I'm prepared to empathise and put myself in their shoes and debate on the same level as them, whereas you're content to just believe what you believe, ignore their arguments and just shout about how ignorant and stupid they are.

I'm not really sure how to debate on a level where no proof is needed. Maybe I'm being simple-minded, or misinformed, but debating is when people formulate opposing arguments that are supported with evidence. Without that, there is no debate.
And yes, I agree that I'm aggressive. Shit like this just irks me beyond belief because of how prevalent is it. People telling me I need Jesus Christ, that I need to accept him in my heart so I won't go to hell, that I'm a sinner, that I need to repent, all these things that I "need" to do. Now you tell me that people shoving their religion down your throat doesn't irritate you.


And anyway, you're hardly convincing anyone here. Any Christians who read your post will continue to believe what they believe and any Atheists who read your post will continue to feel superior to Theists. All it does is reinforce a harmful divide between the two groups.

I know. I do wish that there wasn't such a gross dichotomy between atheists and theists, socially. But again, this is a debate forum. Debates happen. There are sides. Sides are argued.

While your logic is correct; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" etc., you're failing to take into account why they believe what they believe and also why you're making your case in the first place.
They believe it because it gives them hope and happiness in a world where they may find it difficult to find any. You and I find our hope and happiness elsewhere but there's no harm in finding it where they do.
You're acting as if they are somehow making the world a worse place for believing so.
Not to mention you're arguing on a rather null point - you claim their belief is invalid because of a lack of evidence; however most don't believe in religion because of evidence in the first place, so you aren't actually getting anywhere near changing their minds on the topic.

I agree with you here. Finding happiness in religion isn't harmful. What is harmful is when they take their beliefs and try to force them down everyone's throats. It's harmful for someone who may be struggling with their sexuality to be told that they're a sinner. No, the belief itself isn't harmful. It's the believers that oftentimes become harmful.

tl;dr: if he wants to make an argument for christianity, one can very reasonably argue a lack of scientific proof leaves him with nothing. However, you are not willing to engage with him or others on a level where you're going to come away even slightly more knowledgeable or experienced in their beliefs.

Again, I don't know what level this is. If I'm supposed to formulate an argument without logic, evidence, or proof, how the hell am I supposed to make an argument at all? What's the point, even? Then it's all just "he said, she said" and there would be no purpose.

[Rawwwrr]

I loathe OP as much as you, she really is trying to force her beliefs down others throats. I just think it's important that you debate with Christians on a level they can also argue. Otherwise you're just preaching to the choir.

[kenoloor]

I loathe OP as much as you, she really is trying to force her beliefs down others throats. I just think it's important that you debate with Christians on a level they can also argue. Otherwise you're just preaching to the choir.

I honestly don't know what level that would be.

[Jess]

Where did you get that from, that when a girl is raped she has to marry the rapist? It happened against her will, so it's not her fault.

what? you don't know the Bible says that? OHHHHH.

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. --Deuteronomy 22:28-29

not only that but there's this too:

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. --Deuteronomy 22:23-24

of course maybe you don't follow these anymore. They're in the Old Testament.

The devil wants to keep you from Jesus at all costs, it's your choice to seek Jesus and to accept him or not, you have to accept him as your saviour!

no freaking thank you

The devil has blinded all non-believers!! It makes so much sense! I feel like a new person in christ now! Whenever I pray for him to cure me from headache/neckpain/sore troath/stomach pain, he does it, healing me through my faith, believing that he can do it!

so you just pray? You don't take medicine or whatever?

[Rawwwrr]

I honestly don't know what level that would be.

You're arguing on a scientific, logical level - their belief is not based in either logic or science, therefore you're getting nowhere by arguing as though it was so.

[kenoloor]

You're arguing on a scientific, logical level - their belief is not based in either logic or science, therefore you're getting nowhere by arguing as though it was so.

Then these threads serve no purpose.

[Vonn]

Then these threads serve no purpose.

On the bright side, they make for great typing practice/exercise.

[Suicune]

what? you don't know the Bible says that? OHHHHH.

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. --Deuteronomy 22:28-29

not only that but there's this too:

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. --Deuteronomy 22:23-24

of course maybe you don't follow these anymore. They're in the Old Testament.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lni1fnTvnU1qd18mq.gif

[Abyssinian]

Heh I like homosexuality far too much for this..

I also believe people mainly don't like it when opinions are worded as you did..
People telling me I need something that I do not believe I do just kinda annoys me.. I tend to ignore people who try to tell me what I feel/want/need as I am the master of myself. I know those things better than anyone else can.

That being said, I am very happy for you, that you've found your religion, and I think everyone is entitled to an opinion. Thanks for yours.

That's my 2c, and I apologise if I missed anything important that makes my post invalid in any way.. but I am tired enough not to read past the first page xD

[Jess]

I loathe OP as much as you, she really is trying to force her beliefs down others throats. I just think it's important that you debate with Christians on a level they can also argue. Otherwise you're just preaching to the choir.

OP is a he

image (http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lni1fnTvnU1qd18mq.gif)

um what?

[huginnmuninn]

I feel sorry for Lucifer hes just a little misunderstood... :(
I might turn christian if they werent such haters against him or if i had any belief in god...

[Blank]

Christians are called to love the world. As ridiculous as this sounds to you, would you just watch as a dear friend of yours to walks down a path of destruction, say, cutting, or would you, as much as they enjoy cutting, point out to them the error of their ways?

Christians are also called to spread the word of God. That is what we believe in, whether you think it is stupid or not. Therefore it is only natural that we follow what we believe in. To those who say that testimonies aren't proof of God, testimonies are written/spoken by people who have experienced significant change in their lives (for the better) and wish to share the good news with the world, so that they too can experience such freedom and joy. Why else would we go about spreading the word of God, seeing how it is so frowned upon by the general community?

In defence of homosexuals, a common stance is that a homosexual wouldn't choose to be a homosexual because nobody chooses to be hated by the world simply because of what they like. Which, I agree with. Nobody chooses to be homosexual. Our views and beliefs are unpopular too. They are unpopular with our friends, our family, and obviously here. Why would we still want to spread the word? We don't do it because I feel morally superior, all humans are equal, we have all sinned and fallen short of the grace of God. We don't do it because we want our religion to be popular. We do it because we want you to know our(including you) God and what He can do.

Also, about the bible condoning slavery. This may not be a satisfactory answer, but I was told that slavery illustrates humility. Jesus came to the Earth to serve even though He was God.

[Sleepwalking]

Here goes.
I respect people and their religions, but it's when people like /you/ who try and shove Christ down my throat.
People choose their own religon, and what to believe in. What gives you the right to say thats wrong and make them believe in yours?
You've also been BS'ing alot in the previous posts. You've said so many things are wrong, but times have changed, and so have people.
The bible is a fake book. What proof is there that it's real and that God is real? NONE. Faith doesn't count.
I do not believe in god, and nobody will ever make me.

:yeah:

[Jess]

Christians are called to love the world. As ridiculous as this sounds to you, would you just watch as a dear friend of yours to walks down a path of destruction, say, cutting, or would you, as much as they enjoy cutting, point out to them the error of their ways?

Christians are also called to spread the word of God. That is what we believe in, whether you think it is stupid or not. Therefore it is only natural that we follow what we believe in. To those who say that testimonies aren't proof of God, testimonies are written/spoken by people who have experienced significant change in their lives (for the better) and wish to share the good news with the world, so that they too can experience such freedom and joy. Why else would we go about spreading the word of God, seeing how it is so frowned upon by the general community?

In defence of homosexuals, a common stance is that a homosexual wouldn't choose to be a homosexual because nobody chooses to be hated by the world simply because of what they like. Which, I agree with. Nobody chooses to be homosexual. Our views and beliefs are unpopular too. They are unpopular with our friends, our family, and obviously here. Why would we still want to spread the word? We don't do it because I feel morally superior, all humans are equal, we have all sinned and fallen short of the grace of God. We don't do it because we want our religion to be popular. We do it because we want you to know our(including you) God and what He can do.

Also, about the bible condoning slavery. This may not be a satisfactory answer, but I was told that slavery illustrates humility. Jesus came to the Earth to serve even though He was God.

fine. I respect your beliefs. but I hate it when people - religious people - shove their religion down my - and others people's throat. I won't ever accept or need or want Christ or God.

[Zephyr]

As a very wise teacher from high school once said, "If you lived where they lived and if you were taught what they were taught, then you would believe in what they believe.". Some people are raised in god-fearing households and others are raised religion-neutral households

When you (and this is directed at everyone pointing fingers on either side) tell somebody that what they believe in is wrong, they're going to get pissed off and defensive because you're then insinuating that their entire upbringing was wrong and that they are, therefore, invalidated in what they believe. It's like throwing a lit match into a gas can, big no-no.

Christians arn't going to convert Atheists by telling them that they are going to hell and/or that they need Christ because they don't believe that either exists, it's like saying that Santa Claus or ghosts exist to them. Likewise, Atheists can't turn Christians away from their religion because they have faith that they are saved by Jesus Christ and that they are going to heaven for believing in this higher power with love for them.


Christians are called to love the world. As ridiculous as this sounds to you, would you just watch as a dear friend of yours to walks down a path of destruction, say, cutting, or would you, as much as they enjoy cutting, point out to them the error of their ways?

There's a difference between morality and religion. One can have morals without religion and live a perfectly healthy and socially acceptable life. The only 'error' that they may make is not believing in what you believe in.

They're never going to fully understand why you think that they're damned to a hell that they don't believe in, and therefore don't take you seriously. On the flip side, you're not going to take them seriously because you know that you're going to heaven after you die, and not just rotting in the ground after death like what they believe in. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. In the end, it's the individual who has to decide for themselves whether or not they are going to change what they believe in.

[kenoloor]

Christians are called to love the world. As ridiculous as this sounds to you, would you just watch as a dear friend of yours to walks down a path of destruction, say, cutting, or would you, as much as they enjoy cutting, point out to them the error of their ways?

Christians are also called to spread the word of God. That is what we believe in, whether you think it is stupid or not. Therefore it is only natural that we follow what we believe in. To those who say that testimonies aren't proof of God, testimonies are written/spoken by people who have experienced significant change in their lives (for the better) and wish to share the good news with the world, so that they too can experience such freedom and joy. Why else would we go about spreading the word of God, seeing how it is so frowned upon by the general community?

In defence of homosexuals, a common stance is that a homosexual wouldn't choose to be a homosexual because nobody chooses to be hated by the world simply because of what they like. Which, I agree with. Nobody chooses to be homosexual. Our views and beliefs are unpopular too. They are unpopular with our friends, our family, and obviously here. Why would we still want to spread the word? We don't do it because I feel morally superior, all humans are equal, we have all sinned and fallen short of the grace of God. We don't do it because we want our religion to be popular. We do it because we want you to know our(including you) God and what He can do.

Also, about the bible condoning slavery. This may not be a satisfactory answer, but I was told that slavery illustrates humility. Jesus came to the Earth to serve even though He was God.

Although, technically, if Jesus = God, then Jesus was self-serving, which I'm pretty sure is a sin. Also, if Jesus = God, then Jesus didn't sacrifice anything on the cross because he knew he would be resurrected, and therefore his "sacrifice" means nothing.

So it's not enough for you to accept Jesus Christ on your own and be happy about it. You have to go and evangelize. Why?

I'm trying to take Rawwwrr's advice and debate on "your level." But since I can't resist: testimonies are NOT proof. When will you understand this? Anybody can post a video, or write an essay claiming ANYTHING, and say that they experienced it. I can say that I swam to the very bottom of the Pacific Ocean and back, and call it a testimony. That does not make it proof. Solid, real, and credible proof. Testimonies are neither solid, real, nor credible.

[Blank]

Although, technically, if Jesus = God, then Jesus was self-serving, which I'm pretty sure is a sin. Also, if Jesus = God, then Jesus didn't sacrifice anything on the cross because he knew he would be resurrected, and therefore his "sacrifice" means nothing.

Anybody can post a video, or write an essay claiming ANYTHING, and say that they experienced it. I can say that I swam to the very bottom of the Pacific Ocean and back, and call it a testimony. That does not make it proof. Solid, real, and credible proof. Testimonies are neither solid, real, nor credible.

Jesus was betrayed by his disciples, was seen as an illegitimate child His whole life by those around Him and accused of being a drunkard, glutton and of being demon posessed. And the pain that He experienced while dying on the cross is unimaginable. He didn't have to do it all either. He did it because he loved us.

A testimony is what someone has experienced. I'm sure some lie. But as I've stated above, Christians give testimonies not to benefit themselves, but to help others. What I, as well as many other Christians have been through is proof because it did happen. Also, you can usually tell when someone is lying or not. Why would Shelley Luben spend time and effort going about and sharing her story, creating a website and starting a foundation about how she escaped the porn industry, when she was lying? She could have stayed in the porn industry and earned big bucks, why would she do this instead? Passion, passion for God who set her free.

[kenoloor]

Jesus was betrayed by his disciples, was seen as an illegitimate child His whole life by those around Him and accused of being a drunkard, glutton and of being demon posessed. And the pain that He experienced while dying on the cross is unimaginable. He didn't have to do it all either. He did it because he loved us.

A testimony is what someone has experienced. I'm sure some lie. But as I've stated above, Christians give testimonies not to benefit themselves, but to help others. What I, as well as many other Christians have been through is proof because it did happen. Also, you can usually tell when someone is lying or not. Why would Shelley Luben spend time and effort going about and sharing her story, creating a website and starting a foundation about how she escaped the porn industry, when she was lying? She could have stayed in the porn industry and earned big bucks, why would she do this instead? Passion, passion for God who set her free.

Yupp. You're right. You are absolutely correct. Jesus Christ is my savior, and I need to accept him into my heart. I need to repent my sins do I may be allowed into heaven, lest I be damned to hell for an eternity of pain and suffering.

Now lemme go make a video documenting my life and how I was saved. Then maybe other people can see it and be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

lulz. Facetious-ness aside, I'm done here. This thread irritates me too much, and I see no way to have a legitimate and intelligent debate without the use of evidence and proof, neither of which anyone can present in favor of religion.
Good day.

[Kaius]

This is one thing I do not like. Everyone is entitled to believe in what they want, which religion they want but no one is entitled to force their religions or views on other people. People preaching or forcing like you're doing now is only going to put a more negative view on things like Christianity etc. No one has the right to tell other people what they do and don't need and to be honest anyone that does do that to me they're only going to persuade me more than I don't need it. I'm an atheist, i believe in science more than I've ever believed in any religion and I'm not about to start now to be honest. The likes of science has had more on an impact on shaping my life than religion has done.

[jonte95]

People predict his arrival all the time, and he never shows up. Why? Because he doesn't like being told what to do.


It says in the bible: [ Only God Knows When the Time Will Be ] “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows."
-Matthew 24:36

It also says that false prophets will arise.

"The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be as red as blood. Then the great and glorious day of the Lord will come."
-Acts 2:20





I'm sorry he's a delusional whackjob.

Then why did he even bother predicting anything? Because he's a delusional whackjob. Or maybe he just wanted attention.


Yes, obviously he just wanted attention, or money or something.



The Bible is a really bad book and I'm not going to waste my time ingesting its nonsense.


Well, you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Then, what strenghtened my faith was getting baptised in the holy spirit. Also, pray that he'll open your eyes and take him into your heart. Water baptism is also good, all this is good and will open your eyes and make you feel like a new person.



Yes! Blame the Devil for all the bad stuff! Even though you've never seen him before in your life and there's no evidence to indicate that a fallen angel has taken root in the boiling underworld to spend the rest of his (and our) days prodding at the souls of the damned while their non-flesh cooks over an eternal flame forever and ever and ever because God loves you but really, he hates the sinner and the sin lol, so fuck you! Yes! It makes so much sense and everybody should know about this so I'm going to write a really long book about it and it's all going to start with how God made everything -- wait...


The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing people he does not exist.
He decieved Eve and Adam through Eve. He's really good at it, he's done it for thousands of years. He stood up against the most high and he and his angels were thrown down into hell.

Then don't you think he would hate us and want us to come down to hell? He's stubborn, jealous etc.





I find it really creepy that you think a man that may have lived 2,000~ years ago and hasn't shown his face since then loves you unconditionally for no real reason.


A good quote "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." -C.S. Lewis

I've personally seen him and felt his great love and his miracles. No way that there's no connection between me seeing Jesus, and then seeing a sudden loud flash of lightning hit the ground in the neighbourhood a few steps away from me, and all other things that could have turned out bad.



I'll be sure to have some popcorn ready.

Do you think they take requests? Angel music has to be ridiculously awesome.

Angels are really majestetic, I haven't seen one but when my mum got baptised in the spirit, the people who prayed for her claimed that they saw an army of angels behind my mum.








too bad the word "lie" in this quote refers to having sex, and not deceiving. derpamundo.

The bible verse was meant as an answer to something someone else said, it wasn't in context with the upper statement. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, it was late and my mum kept shouting for me to go to bed.


so you just pray? You don't take medicine or whatever?

Yes I just pray, I don't need any medication. Whenever I pray for him to take away my neck pain, he does it. I feel the pain going away, I feel it taking off, it's a nice feeling.

Headache - gone, instantly. Prayer > medicine. Prayer takes it away faster and in a healthy way.

I have nausea. I just pray, nausea is gone. Jesus is awesome.

Just follow this, it's how I get prayers answered (not my site though, not my article):

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

You have to believe in faith that you're healed, not HOPE or WISH that you eventually WILL or MIGHT become healed.

Please don't double-post. If you have something to add, use the "Edit" and "Multiquote" buttons. They exist for a reason ;)
~Thomas

[Genghis Khan]

Yes I just pray, I don't need any medication. Whenever I pray for him to take away my neck pain, he does it. I feel the pain going away, I feel it taking off, it's a nice feeling.

Headache - gone, instantly. Prayer > medicine. Prayer takes it away faster and in a healthy way.

I have nausea. I just pray, nausea is gone. Jesus is awesome.

Just follow this, it's how I get prayers answered (not my site though, not my article):

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

You have to believe in faith that you're healed, not HOPE or WISH that you eventually WILL or MIGHT become healed.

I agree. This one time I went for a dental checkup and came out with my left eye removed.

[Sleepwalking]

Yes I just pray, I don't need any medication. Whenever I pray for him to take away my neck pain, he does it. I feel the pain going away, I feel it taking off, it's a nice feeling.

Headache - gone, instantly. Prayer > medicine. Prayer takes it away faster and in a healthy way.

I have nausea. I just pray, nausea is gone. Jesus is awesome.

Just follow this, it's how I get prayers answered (not my site though, not my article):

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

You have to believe in faith that you're healed, not HOPE or WISH that you eventually WILL or MIGHT become healed.

So if you had something life threatening, and the only cure was medicine, you wouldn't take it? I doubt praying would help you there.

[deadpie]

This thread is everything that's wrong about religion and faith. You want to know what destroys people's faith and beliefs? This garbage. As much as you think you're helping, you're actually making the matter first.

I don't even want to consider debating in this thread now, because it's 10x worse than the Religion thread. This thread literally reeks of shit.

I'd like to think Christians are more accepting and not as annoying, but this just ruins everything over and over, making my impression on Christians the same as it has always been; just plainly bothered.

[jonte95]

and the evidence is...?


Evidence of soul leaving the body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4a_Gu49SA

So it has to go somewhere, to a place where someone takes care of it.

Heaven/hell.




Can you show me a source? I have never seen this proved.


Evidence of soul leaving the body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4a_Gu49SA

So it has to go somewhere, to a place where someone takes care of it.

Heaven/hell.



This has nothing to do with you being christian. It has to do with the fact that the person was healed due to good medical treatments. It doesn't matter who treated them. God wasn't working through the person, also. If they prayed, then there is a chance He would answer.


What do you mean? So, when I pray for healing in Jesus Christ's name and believing that by faith in him I'm healed, it's not he who heals me? Doesn't make sense. What does medical treatment have anything to do with my praying? Hey, pray to Jesus Christ to heal you from headache/nausea/neck pain etc some time, and see it working for yourself, just make sure to pray right if you want results: http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

Or go to some Christian conference and witness with your own eyes dead, blind, people etc getting healed.

Terry Mize was a missionary, read his book "More than conquerors by Terry Mize". He raised people from the dead in Jesus name, he helped someone to get healed from cancer just before a surgery (he sowed faith in the woman).




Also, you claim that people of every other religion and non-religion are misguided and have been deceived by Satan.
Let me ask you something. Do you believe in the gods of the Greeks? Do you believe in Judaism? Of course not. And why don't you believe in the Greek gods, or Judaism?


No, I don't because my parents are christian, and I saw Jesus, and I believe in him and he saved me from many things.


Yea, go devil worshippers!! We're so cool!
And also, just going to put this out there, I'm sure God cures everything the instant you ask because you have *faith*. Right...... So if any other christian prayed to God for that, do you think it would happen? You think there aren't Christians in the hospital who have MORE "faith" than you, and pray to God to save them, but they still end up dying there? Moving on....


Maybe the patients didn't have faith.

[deadpie]

No, I don't because my parents are christian, and I saw Jesus, and I believe in him and he saved me from many things.

When I had a near death experience I saw Muhammad.

[Hajara22]

its one thing to spread the word. its another to shove your beliefs dont the proverbial throat of another and you seem to be the latter. i come from a pagan family and we have gotten along just fine for many centuries with out your one god... not saying one religion is correct over another but you dont have to push your self onto someone to make them believe. its their choice at what or who they want to believe in and youshouldnt question that...

[Jess]

Yes I just pray, I don't need any medication. Whenever I pray for him to take away my neck pain, he does it. I feel the pain going away, I feel it taking off, it's a nice feeling.

Headache - gone, instantly. Prayer > medicine. Prayer takes it away faster and in a healthy way.

I have nausea. I just pray, nausea is gone. Jesus is awesome.

Just follow this, it's how I get prayers answered (not my site though, not my article):

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

You have to believe in faith that you're healed, not HOPE or WISH that you eventually WILL or MIGHT become healed.

that's freaking stupid. so if you had some illness that requires you to take medicine, you wouldn't take it at all? you'll just PRAY to get healed? and even if you put faith in, you probably won't be healed if you don't take any medicine whatsoever.

I doubt this is true: Prayer > Medicine.

Well, you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Then, what strenghtened my faith was getting baptised in the holy spirit. Also, pray that he'll open your eyes and take him into your heart. Water baptism is also good, all this is good and will open your eyes and make you feel like a new person.

can you stop telling people to accept Christ? I won't and neither will most people who are atheists/agnostics or have other beliefs. and if people like me don't believe in prayer or believe it works, we aren't going to pray

[jonte95]

So if you had something life threatening, and the only cure was medicine, you wouldn't take it? I doubt praying would help you there.

Here are many scriptures promising healing from diseases etc: http://www.savedhealed.com/healing.htm

So I would in first place pray and believe, since I've heard of all miracles he has done to people I know and other christians, and non-christians. And all the times he healed me.

No disease would be too big for him to heal. Deadly cancer or not, he can heal it!

[anonymous53]

Here are many scriptures promising healing from diseases etc: http://www.savedhealed.com/healing.htm

So I would in first place pray and believe, since I've heard of all miracles he has done to people I know and other christians, and non-christians. And all the times he healed me.

No disease would be too big for him to heal. Deadly cancer or not, he can heal it!

Honestly, I understand people who pray to be healed, yes. There is nothing in the bible though against taking medicine to better your health. So people can pray and take medicine at the same time.

As to the rest of this thread. Some people have very good reasons to not believe in such things. I accept all people of all religions, as long as they respect my beliefs.

[Vonn]

It says in the bible: [ Only God Knows When the Time Will Be ] “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows."
-Matthew 24:36

Yes, that was stated a while ago.

It also says that false prophets will arise.

"The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be as red as blood. Then the great and glorious day of the Lord will come."
-Acts 2:20

Sounds a lot like an eclipse. They occur with or without the arrival of the Lord.

Yes, obviously he just wanted attention, or money or something.

Sadly, he's not the only one. I'm not pointing fingers; just sayin'.

Well, you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour.

I've gotten along pretty fine without Jesus so far. And don't tell me what I "have" to do. You're not the authority on the subject.

Then, what strenghtened my faith was getting baptised in the holy spirit. Also, pray that he'll open your eyes and take him into your heart. Water baptism is also good, all this is good and will open your eyes and make you feel like a new person.

Like I said, I was baptized. In water. It felt like I was dunked in water by my uncle. I didn't feel any different afterwards.

The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing people he does not exist.

This statement is so ironic, I just can't even. Isn't he supposed to be the one appearing to people and seducing them into doing his [-]sinning[/-] bidding? He would have to make his existence known to do that.

He decieved Eve and Adam through Eve. He's really good at it, he's done it for thousands of years. He stood up against the most high and he and his angels were thrown down into hell.

It's all part of God's plan. Whatever that means.

Then don't you think he would hate us and want us to come down to hell? He's stubborn, jealous etc.

That's right. If you hate someone, you want them to be sent to where you live for all of eternity.

Jealous? Of God? Who wouldn't be? He's got a pretty shiny position up there. And I never understood the whole God/Devil relationship as well as I'd like. Satan tries to turn people away from God (for what purpose?) so they'll go to hell (I love you too, God), where Satan can torture them (for what purpose?) and...do nothing else, really. Is there a goal he's trying to achieve?

A good quote "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." -C.S. Lewis

Another good quote is "If something doesn't make sense, it's usually not true." -Judge Judy

I've personally seen him and felt his great love and his miracles.

See, if it were anything else, anything else in the world, you would be considered mentally ill. But no. Jesus is the exception because he loves you.

No way that there's no connection between me seeing Jesus, and then seeing a sudden loud flash of lightning hit the ground in the neighbourhood a few steps away from me, and all other things that could have turned out bad.

Jesus said stop making him look bad or next time he won't miss.

Angels are really majestetic,

Glorious.

I haven't seen one but when my mum got baptised in the spirit, the people who prayed for her claimed that they saw an army of angels behind my mum.

And what if I claimed that eating premature babies cleanses us of sin?

[Jess]

Here are many scriptures promising healing from diseases etc: http://www.savedhealed.com/healing.htm

So I would in first place pray and believe, since I've heard of all miracles he has done to people I know and other christians, and non-christians. And all the times he healed me.

No disease would be too big for him to heal. Deadly cancer or not, he can heal it!

Now maybe I haven't read the news or whatever enough, but I haven't heard of anyone that was cured of cancer by PRAYING

[TheMatrix]

My opponent's case is like a Swiss cheese: it's full of holes and it stinks. In addition, they have not responded to my arguments, and I can therefore consider those as "dropped contentions", which I will use to determine that we(the negating team) will use to measure our win in this debate.
In this post, I will first be responding to some of my opponent's arguments, and then be moving on to my own.

To begin, you say that praying can cure diseases such as cancer. With that, you provided a source. Unfortunately, that source appears to be biased, and is run by an untrustworthy organization. Therefore, you cannot use that as an argument, and is just a fallacy.
Next, you argue that you have seen God and/or Jesus yourself. To reiterate, that is not trustworthy evidence, and must be considered false. To further prove my point, let's look at a hypothetical situation. I can say that I had a cup of tea with Steve Jobs while having a good chat about the recent times, and that happened today.
Would you believe me if I said that? I didn't think so.
Before moving on, I will offer some commentary on the video that you posted. I would like to congratulate the editor of that video on his excellent photoshopping skills, it is truly a masterpiece. You can guess what that does to your case.

Now, I will provide some more arguments as for our case.
First of all, let's go back in time to the dark ages, you know, the time of the Bubonic(Black) plague. Not too long before that, the Church had increased in power and popularity by a large amount. As you may very well know, in order to take control of something, you need both.
Once the church had it all, they had the ability to change the mindset of people. And they did. Books were burnt, especially those having to do with science, and those who tried to continue anyways were called "witches" or "sorcerers", and were killed or stoned upon sight. Science, in that era, fell dramatically. This made the church even more powerful, as they had everyone believing in this dude called "God". Compare this God to a puppet. It says whatever the church wants it to say. And the people believe, because that's all there is. One word to describe it: brainwashing. It also happened in Germany during WWII, in many middle eastern countries(even today), and especially in dictatorships.

You [-]may[/-] have tl;dr'd at it all, and I don't believe you. Believe me, if I were you, I wouldn't want to read all this evidence against my beliefs either. Especially when I've shoved it down other people's faces. Then I have to make sure I don't lose anything, or I will have lost the entire debate.
Debating trick: don't drop contentions, doing so loses you the round. You dropped all of mine, and can technically not respond to them anymore.
Good luck, though, you'll need it.

For these reasons, I negate.

[trooneh]

My opponent's case is like a Swiss cheese: it's full of holes and it stinks. In addition, they have not responded to my arguments, and I can therefore consider those as "dropped contentions", which I will use to determine that we(the negating team) will use to measure our win in this debate.
In this post, I will first be responding to some of my opponent's arguments, and then be moving on to my own.

To begin, you say that praying can cure diseases such as cancer. With that, you provided a source. Unfortunately, that source appears to be biased, and is run by an untrustworthy organization. Therefore, you cannot use that as an argument, and is just a fallacy.
Next, you argue that you have seen God and/or Jesus yourself. To reiterate, that is not trustworthy evidence, and must be considered false. To further prove my point, let's look at a hypothetical situation. I can say that I had a cup of tea with Steve Jobs while having a good chat about the recent times, and that happened today.
Would you believe me if I said that? I didn't think so.
Before moving on, I will offer some commentary on the video that you posted. I would like to congratulate the editor of that video on his excellent photoshopping skills, it is truly a masterpiece. You can guess what that does to your case.

Now, I will provide some more arguments as for our case.
First of all, let's go back in time to the dark ages, you know, the time of the Bubonic(Black) plague. Not too long before that, the Church had increased in power and popularity by a large amount. As you may very well know, in order to take control of something, you need both.
Once the church had it all, they had the ability to change the mindset of people. And they did. Books were burnt, especially those having to do with science, and those who tried to continue anyways were called "witches" or "sorcerers", and were killed or stoned upon sight. Science, in that era, fell dramatically. This made the church even more powerful, as they had everyone believing in this dude called "God". Compare this God to a puppet. It says whatever the church wants it to say. And the people believe, because that's all there is. One word to describe it: brainwashing. It also happened in Germany during WWII, in many middle eastern countries(even today), and especially in dictatorships.

You [-]may[/-] have tl;dr'd at it all, and I don't believe you. Believe me, if I were you, I wouldn't want to read all this evidence against my beliefs either. Especially when I've shoved it down other people's faces. Then I have to make sure I don't lose anything, or I will have lost the entire debate.
Debating trick: don't drop contentions, doing so loses you the round. You dropped all of mine, and can technically not respond to them anymore.
Good luck, though, you'll need it.

For these reasons, I negate.

tl;dr

Thomas wins, opponent loses.

Well said, Thomas. :P

[StoppingTime]

Yupp. You're right. You are absolutely correct. Jesus Christ is my savior, and I need to accept him into my heart. I need to repent my sins do I may be allowed into heaven, lest I be damned to hell for an eternity of pain and suffering.

Now lemme go make a video documenting my life and how I was saved. Then maybe other people can see it and be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

lulz. Facetious-ness aside, I'm done here. This thread irritates me too much, and I see no way to have a legitimate and intelligent debate without the use of evidence and proof, neither of which anyone can present in favor of religion.
Good day.

But thats whats so fun about it. :cool: Yes, it is based on senseless, ridiculous facts but....

This is one thing I do not like. Everyone is entitled to believe in what they want, which religion they want but no one is entitled to force their religions or views on other people. People preaching or forcing like you're doing now is only going to put a more negative view on things like Christianity etc. No one has the right to tell other people what they do and don't need and to be honest anyone that does do that to me they're only going to persuade me more than I don't need it. I'm an atheist, i believe in science more than I've ever believed in any religion and I'm not about to start now to be honest. The likes of science has had more on an impact on shaping my life than religion has done.

Exactly, I 100% agree with you. I don't care what you believe in, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or Flying Spaghetti Monsterism. As long as it isn't hurting me, I don't care. I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to be preached, or told. I love to debate these topics, but you aren't debating. You're preaching us with useless, untrue facts regarding your religion.

It says in the bible: [ Only God Knows When the Time Will Be ] “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows."
-Matthew 24:36

O yes, since God only had ONE son, he's the Messiah. O, and for good measure, let me tell you why he is not the Messiah. And I'm not including sources, because you'll find these incredibly self explanatory:


It is never said Messiah would be killed
If he's the Messiah, why is there still war?
There would be peace




It also says that false prophets will arise.
"The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be as red as blood. Then the great and glorious day of the Lord will come."
-Acts 2:20

What does this have to do with anything?


Yes, obviously he just wanted attention, or money or something.

Do you really believe that?


Well, you have to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Then, what strenghtened my faith was getting baptised in the holy spirit. Also, pray that he'll open your eyes and take him into your heart. Water baptism is also good, all this is good and will open your eyes and make you feel like a new person.

*dips in water* I'm new again! Look at me! I won't ever commit sin again, yea Jesus!!!!! :no:
Yes, there is "Holy Water" in Judaism, but it is completely different, so don't even bother bringing that up.


The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing people he does not exist.
He decieved Eve and Adam through Eve. He's really good at it, he's done it for thousands of years. He stood up against the most high and he and his angels were thrown down into hell.

Then don't you think he would hate us and want us to come down to hell? He's stubborn, jealous etc.

Right, because anyone who isn't Christian is tricked by the devil. I guess I'm a devil worshipper then. Awesome!!!!


I've personally seen him and felt his great love and his miracles. No way that there's no connection between me seeing Jesus, and then seeing a sudden loud flash of lightning hit the ground in the neighbourhood a few steps away from me, and all other things that could have turned out bad.

You're a prophet? You can talk and see him just whenever you want? And yes, Jesus had nothing to do with you not getting struck by lightening. That's just how it happened. God had something to do with it. He didn't choose where you walked, he made sure it wouldn't hit you though.


Angels are really majestetic, I haven't seen one but when my mum got baptised in the spirit, the people who prayed for her claimed that they saw an army of angels behind my mum.

There! You said it yourself! You obviously believe it, so why say they claimed? They just pop up all the time.


What exactly are you trying to say here All you're doing is bringing down stories, not debating.


Yes I just pray, I don't need any medication. Whenever I pray for him to take away my neck pain, he does it. I feel the pain going away, I feel it taking off, it's a nice feeling.

Headache - gone, instantly. Prayer > medicine. Prayer takes it away faster and in a healthy way.

I have nausea. I just pray, nausea is gone. Jesus is awesome.


omglolroflmao! Yea, thats right guys. He just prays, and its all good. God doesn't just do miracles because you want them immediately. Even in christianity. And don't even start telling me that because you pray right it happens. I'm sure that other people have seen this ridiculous link, did what it said, and didn't get answered. But your special, right?

Just follow this, it's how I get prayers answered (not my site though, not my article):

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

Its like a 1-800 number isn't it? Just simply say, "God, get rid of the headache for me" in a *special way*, and its done! Lemme try, "O Jesus, make me fly"
Its working......yea come on...... Damn. He didn't listen. I did everything it said. /sarcasm

And you think there aren't people praying for loved ones to heal 10x harder than you? How come Jesus doesn't listen to them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This thread is everything that's wrong about religion and faith. You want to know what destroys people's faith and beliefs? This garbage. As much as you think you're helping, you're actually making the matter first.

I don't even want to consider debating in this thread now, because it's 10x worse than the Religion thread. This thread literally reeks of shit.

I'd like to think Christians are more accepting and not as annoying, but this just ruins everything over and over, making my impression on Christians the same as it has always been; just plainly bothered.

I agree with you completely. Preaching people on things only makes people want to listen to you less. If I sat here and told you a thousand reasons why you should be Jewish, what would you think? If someone did that to me, I'd be.... O wait....


Evidence of soul leaving the body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4a_Gu49SA

So it has to go somewhere, to a place where someone takes care of it.

Heaven/hell.

I'm not denying that we have a soul, but this is one of the most ridiculous pieces of "proof" I've ever seen. There is no evidence of it. There doesn't need to be.
Also, proof form a five minute Google search, not a good idea. And all I see, which is I think all anyone sees, is a bunch of meaningless pictures, because this is what they are.


What do you mean? So, when I pray for healing in Jesus Christ's name and believing that by faith in him I'm healed, it's not he who heals me? Doesn't make sense. What does medical treatment have anything to do with my praying? Hey, pray to Jesus Christ to heal you from headache/nausea/neck pain etc some time, and see it working for yourself, just make sure to pray right if you want results: http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm


Yea, its more like your not exactly being completely honest here. Now, just guessing here, I'm gonna have to go with, you're full of crap.... /endsarcasm
Anyway, no, I don't believe what you're saying.


Or go to some Christian conference and witness with your own eyes dead, blind, people etc getting healed.

Terry Mize was a missionary, read his book "More than conquerors by Terry Mize". He raised people from the dead in Jesus name, he helped someone to get healed from cancer just before a surgery (he sowed faith in the woman).

Yea, so people come back from the dead because Jesus existed and was God's son. How come there aren't a couple hundred million more people then? You'd think if the dead could be raised because someone asked Jesus, there'd be some more people coming back.



When I had a near death experience I saw Muhammad.

I saw the devil, because I worship him apparently! :eek:

that's freaking stupid. so if you had some illness that requires you to take medicine, you wouldn't take it at all? you'll just PRAY to get healed? and even if you put faith in, you probably won't be healed if you don't take any medicine whatsoever.

I doubt this is true: Prayer > Medicine.



can you stop telling people to accept Christ? I won't and neither will most people who are atheists/agnostics or have other beliefs. and if people like me don't believe in prayer or believe it works, we aren't going to pray

90% agreed. What he is doing is ridiculous, but to say prayer has no effect, in my opinion, isn't true.

Here are many scriptures promising healing from diseases etc: http://www.savedhealed.com/healing.htm

Just as I quickly was looking through, I can assure you this website is useless.
First, whatever genius wrote it doesn't understand that the Old Testament mentions NOTHING about Jesus, and yet I see this:


Make Jesus The Lord Of Your Life, Reverence Him By Closing All Doors To The Enemy, Giving Him First Place!


Exodus 15:26 "If thou will diligently harken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in His sight, and wilt give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will put (permit) none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee."

This was taken out of context, and the translation isn't fully correct. This is taken from when the Jews are leaving Egypt, and just crossed the Red Sea. God is saying of the Israelites, and obey HIS laws, then they won't be sickens like the Egyptians when they were plagued.


No disease would be too big for him to heal. Deadly cancer or not, he can heal it!
True, but that doesn't mean He will if you ask in your so called "correct way".

Honestly, I understand people who pray to be healed, yes. There is nothing in the bible though against taking medicine to better your health. So people can pray and take medicine at the same time.

Yes, this is how it should be done. god doesn't just perform miracles. It is said that we should not live our lives on miracles, and just sit back and let God heal us and protect us.


As to the rest of this thread. Some people have very good reasons to not believe in such things. I accept all people of all religions, as long as they respect my beliefs.

Same here, but that isn't whats going on here.

[aperson444]

That's interesting. Why though?

Look, out of the big three "Western" (Judaism, Islam, Christianity), the only one that still has the slightest thread of culture left in it is Islam and some sects of Judaism (most Jews see them as radical anti-Zionist assholes, but they are actually pretty interesting). Christians and Christianity, except for the Aramaic Christians (some) have lost sight of what Christianity means. They have no culture, they pick and choose what verses of the Bibles to believe and they really like to force their religion down others' throats and then cry about persecution when someone gets irritated by their shennanigans. Islam is the best for that reason. While they aren't the most free and liberty-loving people, they have culture, they have pride and they support the things that the Qu'ran teaches. Plus they don't demonize cannabis as much as Christianity does. Which really sort of irritates me, because Christianity completely illegitimized cannabis and replaced cannabis with alcohol.

Now I really dislike organized religion as a whole. I'm just saying that Islam is more direct and more cultural rather than a jumble of moralistic bullshit. These three religions (the Judaeo-Christian religions) all support a general culture of judgment, which is what I hate. The entire basis of the three religions is the benevolence of God, yet God somehow has the ability to judge a being based on what He/She/It perceives as wrong.

I really want to irritate the OP and say that Satan is my Lord and Savior.

Hail Satan!

[Marky]

My main question to all people of religions, why label him/her/it/ god or Jesus. How will one know if that person exists? how will one know if their is truley a heaven or hell? Take a sociology course we talk about this in class that religions and almost all other things are socially constructed. Religion is often refered to as the answer to the unknown because man kind does not like the fact that we dont have a reason for everything. Religion/gender roles/ sanctions/ norms/ are all socially constructed.


Now on a personal note, I was once a "Christian" and I believed I have capable f speaking "tungues" and that I saw "Jesus" at one point in my life. But once you take a step back and view the full picture you see that their are many world religions and what constructed them? Society. People constructed religions. Idk maybe their might be a greater being, and maybe their might not. But one will truely never know until your death, until you are sent to "heven, hell, nervona, capable of experiencing reincarnation". and even then once this body is dead their is no way of bringing it back to tell others what you experienced after death.

Last but not least their is no tangable evidence to prove if a higher being exists or not for any religion, because faith is constructed within our selves and threw social ties. Wether or not you have faith is something that was created within you mostly threw social interactions.

[jonte95]

*dips in water* I'm new again! Look at me! I won't ever commit sin again, yea Jesus!!!!! :no:
Yes, there is "Holy Water" in Judaism, but it is completely different, so don't even bother bringing that up.


Doesn't say you'll never commit sin again by being baptised.


You're a prophet? You can talk and see him just whenever you want? And yes, Jesus had nothing to do with you not getting struck by lightening. That's just how it happened. God had something to do with it. He didn't choose where you walked, he made sure it wouldn't hit you though.


I can't talk and see him whenever I want. I've seen him once, and he said "Don't be afraid, Jonathan".




True, but that doesn't mean He will if you ask in your so called "correct way".


He has healed me from neckpains, headaches, sore throath, stomach pain and nausea so far.






Yes, this is how it should be done. god doesn't just perform miracles. It is said that we should not live our lives on miracles, and just sit back and let God heal us and protect us.


Where does it say so? What do you mean "sit back"? Like, living double lives? Gaming etc?

Google: The cross in our bodies There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!



Sounds a lot like an eclipse. They occur with or without the arrival of the Lord.


Well when it's eclipse, the moon covers the sun. However it says the moon will turn red as blood and the sun into darkness. Doesn't say that the sun will cover the moon or that the moon will cover the sun

Google: The cross in our bodies ........There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!



Another good quote is "If something doesn't make sense, it's usually not true." -Judge Judy


Well Jesus and his father are so wise, so it would make sense that we wouldn't understand everything the way we would like to understand it.

Google: The cross in our bodies ............ There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!


Now maybe I haven't read the news or whatever enough, but I haven't heard of anyone that was cured of cancer by PRAYING

Why does it have to be said in the news? The person who prayed for healing maybe didn't want to publish it on the news.

Google: The cross in our bodies .................There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!

Well, I'm only 15 and I've been a practising christian/full believer for only 2-3 months~

And I've Aspergers syndrome.

I'm not really good at Apologetics yet it seems.

It's hard to convince you people, when all you want is that it must make sense and that you want proof that Jesus exists, when Christianity is a lot about FAITH.

I haven't tried to spread the word/evangelize before, on forums. Only in online games like Counter-Strike etc.


However, I'm praying every day for the things me and OP said. Praying that it will touch your hearts and speak directly to your hearts and that Jesus Christ will open your eyes and hearts to him so you can experience his amazing grace and love.

God bless you.

Look

Israel's Land of Milk and Honey: Prophecy Fulfilled
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2011/October11/1121.html


Israeli cows yield on average 12,000 liters of milk a year – compared to an average of 6,000 per year in the U.S. and the U.K., and between 3,000 and 4,000 in India and China.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/148175


Israel is a blessed land, look how much growth they have too!


Please don't double post; instead edit your first post. I've merged both of your posts together. -Jon/Rafiki

[anonymous53]

Look

Israel's Land of Milk and Honey: Prophecy Fulfilled
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2011/October11/1121.html


Israeli cows yield on average 12,000 liters of milk a year – compared to an average of 6,000 per year in the U.S. and the U.K., and between 3,000 and 4,000 in India and China.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/148175


Israel is a blessed land, look how much growth they have too!

There are also scientific reasons, such as these cows could be mated with the "best" in selective breeding. To allow the "best" genes to prosper. Their diets may be different or higher in certain nutrients.

[Jess]

Doesn't say you'll never commit sin again by being baptised.



I can't talk and see him whenever I want. I've seen him once, and he said "Don't be afraid, Jonathan".





He has healed me from neckpains, headaches, sore throath, stomach pain and nausea so far.







Where does it say so? What do you mean "sit back"? Like, living double lives? Gaming etc?

Google: The cross in our bodies There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!



Well when it's eclipse, the moon covers the sun. However it says the moon will turn red as blood and the sun into darkness. Doesn't say that the sun will cover the moon or that the moon will cover the sun

Google: The cross in our bodies ........There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!




Well Jesus and his father are so wise, so it would make sense that we wouldn't understand everything the way we would like to understand it.

Google: The cross in our bodies ............ There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!




Why does it have to be said in the news? The person who prayed for healing maybe didn't want to publish it on the news.

Google: The cross in our bodies .................There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross!


it doesn't matter if it wasn't published in the news. you can't be cured of cancer or some other illness that has no official cure by PRAYING

[jonte95]

it doesn't matter if it wasn't published in the news. you can't be cured of cancer or some other illness that has no official cure by PRAYING

Yes you can, if you have faith!

How do you know it's not possible?

"Because there's no proof"?

[Jess]

Yeah, you have a life-threatening illness, you're going to die soon, and you pray and you'll suddenly freaking healed? what a load of crap. praying does NOT cure cancer or AIDs or any other life-threatening illnesses!!!!


It amazes me that people actually use arguments like this and still think they're being logical.

agreed!

[Amnesiac]

Yes you can, if you have faith!

How do you know it's not possible?

"Because there's no proof"?

It amazes me that people actually use arguments like this and still think they're being logical.

[Rawwwrr]

Yes you can, if you have faith!

How do you know it's not possible?

"Because there's no proof"?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a perfect example of an absolute trainwreck of logic.

[TheMatrix]

And I've Aspergers syndrome.
I thought no disease was too difficult for god to heal ;)

And once again, you have failed to respond to my arguments. That's 3 more wins on our side.

[Jean Poutine]

y'all gettin' trolled again

[Jess]

And I've Aspergers syndrome.

oh. so you haven't prayed, PUTTING FAITH IN, to get healed of this? or have you, and you weren't healed at all? seriously >_>

[Bougainvillea]

Seriously. People do just fine without Christ in their lives. We don't need to know, and I can't think of a time where knowing Jesus would have made times in my life better. "My dad died, and my mom is an alcoholic, but hey. I know Jesus. Life is now great." In reality, Jesus doesn't do shit. Never has, never will. And I still think its sad that people choose him instead of actually doing anything. Life is what you make of it. If you choose Jesus, great. Good for you. Love him all you want, but in the end, your system isnt the only system in the world, and its very arrogant, and ignorant, to disregard that and think "WELL PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW SO I'M GOING TO BE A CUNT AND SHOVE SOME IT DOWN THEIR THROATS BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE IS OBVIOUSLY THE ONLY TRUTH AND SHIT BLAH BLAH".

I wish people like you could live in reality, and realise this. But you're stuck believing you're doing is good, when you're being ignorant, and rude.

How hard is it to understand that? How hard is it for you to keep it to yourself? Can you not grasp the fact that your beliefs aren't the only ones that matter? Am I talking to an idiot?

HNNG I WISH THAT I COULD LET STUPID PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY ARE STUPID. YOU HAVE NO IDEA. OH MY NON EXISTANT GOD YOU ARE SO IGNORANT I JUST BLAGGH.

There is so much running through my head and I just...

I have a better idea. How about you save yourself time, and just see it my way.

[StoppingTime]

I can't talk and see him whenever I want. I've seen him once, and he said "Don't be afraid, Jonathan".
You telling me this is absolutely meaningless. there is no proof that you saw him, so nobody could possible know. We aren't going to just take your word on it.


He has healed me from neckpains, headaches, sore throath, stomach pain and nausea so far.


Once again, O find this incredibly hard to believe. God doesn't work miracles while you just sit back and ask him, whether you do it "correctly" or not. That jus tint how it works. If it was, then whey would we ever need to do anything? We could just pray "correctly" and our lives would be lived for us.



Where does it say so? What do you mean "sit back"? Like, living double lives? Gaming etc?

I mean that you can't let God do things for you. He doesn't. You can't just say, "I've got neck pain, cure me, in your special way. That just isn't how it happens. I explained why above.


Google: The cross in our bodies There's something in our bodies called Laminin shaped like a cross! /meaningless fact


Whether this is true or not, its meaningless. This proves 0. Absolutely nothing. If its even true.



Well [-]Jesus and his father[/-] GOD is so wise, so it would make sense that we wouldn't understand everything the way we would like to understand it.


Your correct. We can't understand everything in the way God works. We weren't meant to.




And I've Aspergers syndrome.

Then why hasn't God cured that? You could just ask him and say pretty please, right?



It's hard to convince you people, when all you want is that it must make sense and that you want proof that Jesus exists, when Christianity is a lot about FAITH.

THERE IS NO POINT IN TRYING! it will never happen. What your doing lessens the chances even more of something supernatural happening and converting us all :P. I will say Jesus exists. That's al. He wasn't special, just convinced people to stray away from Torah. So yea, its a whole lot about false faith.


I haven't tried to spread the word/evangelize before, on forums. Only in online games like Counter-Strike etc.

I recommend stopping, it will get you nowhere and only get people mad at you.


Israel is a blessed land, look how much growth they have too!

Yes it is, for the people it was meant for, the Jews.


I thought no disease was too difficult for god to heal ;)

And once again, you have failed to respond to my arguments. That's 3 more wins on our side.

I asked him about this hmmm.............

[jonte95]

Once again, O find this incredibly hard to believe. God doesn't work miracles while you just sit back and ask him, whether you do it "correctly" or not. That jus tint how it works. If it was, then whey would we ever need to do anything? We could just pray "correctly" and our lives would be lived for us.


Well Jesus does that when I pray to him, it's amazing.



I mean that you can't let God do things for you. He doesn't. You can't just say, "I've got neck pain, cure me, in your special way. That just isn't how it happens. I explained why above.


Yes Jesus does it because I've faith in him healing me from it.




Then why hasn't God cured that? You could just ask him and say pretty please, right?


I'm not sure I've even prayed fervently for it. I accept that he made me like this, I actually find lots of pros in being an Asperger. More pros than cons actually.

However, people have prayed for me when I was younger, for my Aspergers. And later on when I've taken blood samples, or something, it turned out my Asperger genes were gone, so it wouldn't be passed on to my children in the future. My mum told me this.

[Jean Poutine]

I'm not sure I've even prayed fervently for it. I accept that he made me like this, I actually find lots of pros in being an Asperger. More pros than cons actually.

However, people have prayed for me when I was younger, for my Aspergers. And later on when I've taken blood samples, or something, it turned out my Asperger genes were gone, so it wouldn't be passed on to my children in the future. My mum told me this.

You're either a pretty good troll (or people here are just gullible), quite wacko or simply incredibly stupid. Either way, I'll bite this once.

First of all, as a high-functioning autistic person, I'm quite offended by what I perceive to be a downplaying of my suffering. I've gone through Hell in high school because of this shit and fortunately lived to tell the tale (but almost didn't). "More pros than cons"? There are maybe one or two pros with being autistic, and many, many cons. Go on, name them. I want to know what made suffering for as long as I have memories worth it.

The doctor who's analyzed your blood samples is either a quack or a highly-evolved being with superior technology from Zeta Reticuli. Nobody (human) knows what gene causes Asperger Syndrome. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/asperger/detail_asperger.htm#179693080

Even if Prayer level 3 had made them "disappear", the doctor wouldn't be able to tell because he wouldn't know where to look. Wait, no, let me guess. The guy who analyzed your blood samples was Jesus. That explains it all!

Derp a fucking herp. And you guys are falling for this.

[deadpie]

I'm not sure I've even prayed fervently for it. I accept that he made me like this, I actually find lots of pros in being an Asperger. More pros than cons actually.

However, people have prayed for me when I was younger, for my Aspergers. And later on when I've taken blood samples, or something, it turned out my Asperger genes were gone, so it wouldn't be passed on to my children in the future. My mum told me this.

So what do you say about other people with Aspergers who ARE Christian? Why aren't they cured. Are you just the miracle child? What makes you so special anyhow?

Holy shit! It must mean you're the messiah! THIS IS PROOF OF GOD! HOLY FUCK I'M CONVERTING! BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rawwwrr]

However, people have prayed for me when I was younger, for my Aspergers. And later on when I've taken blood samples, or something, it turned out my Asperger genes were gone, so it wouldn't be passed on to my children in the future. My mum told me this.

She was either wrong or lying, sorry. Either you have aspergers or you don't, you can't be 'cured' of it. If you ever had it, you still have it. It's possibly you were misdiagnosed but that's really unlikely as scientists can actually determine it from the brain.

[Jess]

Well Jesus does that when I pray to him, it's amazing.




Yes Jesus does it because I've faith in him healing me from it.





I'm not sure I've even prayed fervently for it. I accept that he made me like this, I actually find lots of pros in being an Asperger. More pros than cons actually.

However, people have prayed for me when I was younger, for my Aspergers. And later on when I've taken blood samples, or something, it turned out my Asperger genes were gone, so it wouldn't be passed on to my children in the future. My mum told me this.

you never even replied to how it's possible for someone to be cured of cancer. nor did you reply to Thomas' arguments.

"putting faith in praying to Jesus" is not an answer.

[Levy]

I have no negative feelings towards a person of any religion, but please do not try to force a religion onto me. That's when I get a little testy, and sometimes I might get into a little debating mood. Which actually debating is pretty fun.

[Matt-hew]

I have two things to contribute:
1 - To all of the Atheists can you prove one time in history where the bible was wrong? It says in the bible that there will be phenomena's of weather occurring in strange places.

For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles. These are the beginnings of sorrows. Mark 13:8

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. Matthew 24:7

Japan had the Tsunami, Haiti had the earthquake, last tornado season many cities were ruined, and the East Coast had an earthquake the previous summer.

Nations have been rising against nation (all the rebellions in the Middle East), famines have been happening more so in the last century than ever. Not just in Africa alone but in America, England, Ireland, etc.

They have found Roman Chariots in the Red Sea which is where Moses went through while saving the slaves from Egypt. They have found an ark measuring to the biblical standards of Noah's in Genesis.

Besides all that was previously stated - How would Natural Genesis occur? In Revelation God states:
I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Revelation 22:14

2) For all of you who are asking for "evidence of God's true existence" look at around for one day. How was our small intestine created? How do men (scientifically proven for decades) have one less rib than women? In Genesis God said He took Adam's one rib away to give to Eve to be created.

So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib[b] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Genesis 2:21-22

The evidence is all around, but if you must need evidence I may present it to you.

We all have brains, unless we get our heads X-Rayed or skulls cut open to prove it, we have faith that we have a brain. Now do not tell me this is "Scientifically Proven" as it is, but lets talk about the 17th Century I suppose. At that time their Science and Technology was no where near as sofisticated as ours; yet they claim we all have the same makeup, all men a penis, all women a vagina - everything else the same. How did they know this? They didn't they couldn't operate properly, for when in the Civil War a man was penetrated with a bullet unless the bullet went through his arm, the doctors made the man bite a stick and commenced the severing of his arm.

So at this point there was no real version of what we would all define as "surgery". But yet they had faith we all had a heart, we all had a liver, a small intestine, etc. We walk with God by faith alone, and nothing else. He is always there, yet is an essence that cannot be seen, nor heard. Yet if you look deep into the galaxy there are eyes, there are illustrations of a man upon a cross, faces, crosses, etc. How could all this be created? By Chemical fission is the simpleminded analysis, however upon further studying that cannot create perfect illustrations of a face, a cross, or the texture of an eye.

We walk by faith alone that this is the truth. But when you want to prove it, just look into the stars. The sun by biblical standards has been burning for 6,000 years. That is longer than anyone has ever been alive for, but it is kept burning. The heart of all life, is kept burning. Without the sun there would be no plants, no plants would equal no beef, no beef would equal no us in a simple analogy.

When we were in Preschool did we not get 1+1 wrong ever? In that simple statement there how do we know all of the scientists do not have the process of carbon dating wrong? Though we have a full brain, how much power does the brain use? The brain uses approximately 5% at all times. Only five percent? What about the other 95%?

God gave us the option of Free Will since Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. He told them "You may eat upon any tree, just not that one tree where the serpent lye." Eve decided she wanted to gain an incredible amount of knowledge, upon biting the apple God banished Adam and Eve from Eden. Could it be God knows that when the brains full power is released that we will know of Him? We will walk the path He asks of us? Perhaps, but He did give us Free Will for a reason.

If you dare use the Epicurus paradox
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

People are simple indeed, read it very closely. If you cannot answer the question that is perfectly fine, as well as intended by Epicurus. Look at it long enough and it will unravel the answer to you and simply the answer is - God is willing to do all, though He will not. He will not due to the fact that if we do not ask for Him, why should he help? If we do ask for Him or do not we express our right of Free Will.

So I question you-
If you do not believe in God, why do believe in a fate so grim?
A fate that ends with either personal gain in life, or the gain of a charity.
If you are doing all you do in vain and against God, whether God be real or not.
You are looking at the fate of rotting in the ground when you die.
How is that appealing to you?
Why not dream of "When I die I will go to a place lined with golden paths, full of love and everything I could ever wish of."
Just a question after all.

So I leave you with this last Bible passage and a few last words:

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? James 2:20

If you have faith in God, but never Pray, is your faith not useless?
If you have faith in becoming an MLG Pro on the Xbox, but never practice is your faith not false?
If you have faith you will be like Jimi Hendrix, but never practice playing the guitar is your faith nonexistent?

That is my thoughts on this topic, and this will be my stance until I die.

[Carlyle]

You do realize that trying to convert people is a truly pointless effort your making, right? Most people are atheists for a reason and it would take a lot more than what you call "proof" for them to convert. Why have faith in a God who plays with his creations and watches them suffer and never helps them through the darkest times of there lives? I believe everything happens for a reason, but no God has any dominion over I or anyone else in this world.

[Matt-hew]

You do realize that trying to convert people is a truly pointless effort your making, right? Most people are atheists for a reason and it would take a lot more than what you call "proof" for them to convert. Why have faith in a God who plays with his creations and watches them suffer and never helps them through the darkest times of there lives? I believe everything happens for a reason, but no God has any dominion over I or anyone else in this world.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, just saying stuff about God.
Honestly, I question it all the time, and ask is it real, but would rather not think when I die I'll be 6' under in a ditch.

[Blank]

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is no, which may explain why they are not cured. Not that He enjoys watching them suffer. Diseases are often capable of strengthening one's character as well as the people around them. That could be one of the reasons for God saying 'no' to a prayer for recovery.

[Jess]

He does not answers all prayers. When I used to believe in God...long time ago...NONE of my prayers were answered

and I'm pretty sure most of other people's prayers aren't answered either.

[Carlyle]

He does not answers all prayers. When I used to believe in God...long time ago...NONE of my prayers were answered

and I'm pretty sure most of other people's prayers aren't answered either.

Jess pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.. When I actually thought he was there and believed in him, I never saw evidence or had my prayers answered. Looking back, I feel foolish for ever thinking there was a god.

[Magus]

There is no Christ in my life, and I feel totally fine. Hell, I am not even baptized.

I have two things to contribute:
1 - To all of the Atheists can you prove one time in history where the bible was wrong? It says in the bible that there will be phenomena's of weather occurring in strange places.

Mark 13:8

Matthew 24:7

Japan had the Tsunami, Haiti had the earthquake, last tornado season many cities were ruined, and the East Coast had an earthquake the previous summer.

And I will say there will always be strange wheather phenomenon. Always. From Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Torrents, Cyclones and etc.

I don't see the miracle here. It only says that there will be such things. It always had, and always will have. That's unless someone figure out how to stop or create these things artificially.


Nations have been rising against nation (all the rebellions in the Middle East), famines have been happening more so in the last century than ever. Not just in Africa alone but in America, England, Ireland, etc.Nations have been rising against nation. I mean, I can easily say that it means there will always will be wars and disputes. Nothing magical here. Next.

We are trying to eradicate famine. Then, what will happen next?


They have found Roman Chariots in the Red Sea which is where Moses went through while saving the slaves from Egypt. They have found an ark measuring to the biblical standards of Noah's in Genesis.Only god knows from where you are bringing this shit up. Can we have a decent source of these claims?


2) For all of you who are asking for "evidence of God's true existence" look at around for one day. How was our small intestine created?The process of evolution, perhaps? Otherwise, why do we have things appendix or a shortened monkey tailbone? Did the devil put it there?

How do men (scientifically proven for decades) have one less rib than women? In Genesis God said He took Adam's one rib away to give to Eve to be created.Because people knew we have one less ribs, and then they put it in the book?

Plus, we all have the same 12 pairs of ribs. Man and women. There is no missing rib in man, except in very rare special cases.

The evidence is all around, but if you must need evidence I may present it to you.

The Quran has explained big bang theory and embryogenesis in it, and that's 1400 years before we even know what that is. So, what do you think? Does that makes the Quran right?


We all have brains, unless we get our heads X-Rayed or skulls cut open to prove it, we have faith that we have a brain. We don't need faith to know we have brain. If we don't have brain, we wouldn't function at all. Simple logic. Not faith.

Now do not tell me this is "Scientifically Proven" as it is
It is "Scientifically Disproven" I believe.

but lets talk about the 17th Century I suppose. At that time their Science and Technology was no where near as sofisticated as ours; yet they claim we all have the same makeup, all men a penis, all women a vagina - everything else the same. How did they know this? They didn't they couldn't operate properly, for when in the Civil War a man was penetrated with a bullet unless the bullet went through his arm, the doctors made the man bite a stick and commenced the severing of his arm.

So at this point there was no real version of what we would all define as "surgery". But yet they had faith we all had a heart, we all had a liver, a small intestine, etc. We walk with God by faith alone, and nothing else. He is always there, yet is an essence that cannot be seen, nor heard. Yet if you look deep into the galaxy there are eyes, there are illustrations of a man upon a cross, faces, crosses, etc. How could all this be created? By Chemical fission is the simpleminded analysis, however upon further studying that cannot create perfect illustrations of a face, a cross, or the texture of an eye.

I don't even....


We walk by faith alone that this is the truth. But when you want to prove it, just look into the stars. The sun by biblical standards has been burning for 6,000 years. That is longer than anyone has ever been alive for, but it is kept burning. The heart of all life, is kept burning. Without the sun there would be no plants, no plants would equal no beef, no beef would equal no us in a simple analogy.

Six thousand years? Seriously? Are you trolling? I don't care. Doesn't matter. I will waste some time.


When we were in Preschool did we not get 1+1 wrong ever? In that simple statement there how do we know all of the scientists do not have the process of carbon dating wrong? Though we have a full brain, how much power does the brain use? The brain uses approximately 5% at all times. Only five percent? What about the other 95%?

95% brain usage is a myth, just like the tongue-taste map. Carbon dating is as accurate as 1+1 =2.


God gave us the option of Free Will since Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. He told them "You may eat upon any tree, just not that one tree where the serpent lye." Eve decided she wanted to gain an incredible amount of knowledge, upon biting the apple God banished Adam and Eve from Eden. Could it be God knows that when the brains full power is released that we will know of Him? We will walk the path He asks of us? Perhaps, but He did give us Free Will for a reason.

Adam and Eve is an allegory created by Assyrians to describe the Human conditions. Some Jews adopted the allegory. But some people took it literally.


If you dare use the Epicurus paradoxHuh?


People are simple indeed, read it very closely. If you cannot answer the question that is perfectly fine, as well as intended by Epicurus. Look at it long enough and it will unravel the answer to you and simply the answer is - God is willing to do all, though He will not. He will not due to the fact that if we do not ask for Him, why should he help? If we do ask for Him or do not we express our right of Free Will.God is eating his burger right now. He is too busy to help you.

If you do not believe in God, why do believe in a fate so grim?
A fate that ends with either personal gain in life, or the gain of a charity.
If you are doing all you do in vain and against God, whether God be real or not.
You are looking at the fate of rotting in the ground when you die.
How is that appealing to you?
Why not dream of "When I die I will go to a place lined with golden paths, full of love and everything I could ever wish of."
Just a question after all.
Because we are too realist for wishful thinking.


So I leave you with this last Bible passage and a few last wordsThat's a good advice.

That is my thoughts on this topic, and this will be my stance until I die.Tsk tsk tsk.

[Jess]

2) For all of you who are asking for "evidence of God's true existence" look at around for one day. How was our small intestine created? How do men (scientifically proven for decades) have one less rib than women? In Genesis God said He took Adam's one rib away to give to Eve to be created.

heard of anything called evolution? >_>


They have found Roman Chariots in the Red Sea which is where Moses went through while saving the slaves from Egypt. They have found an ark measuring to the biblical standards of Noah's in Genesis.

um...where are your sources to back that up?


We walk by faith alone that this is the truth. But when you want to prove it, just look into the stars. The sun by biblical standards has been burning for 6,000 years. That is longer than anyone has ever been alive for, but it is kept burning. The heart of all life, is kept burning. Without the sun there would be no plants, no plants would equal no beef, no beef would equal no us in a simple analogy.

The sun has been freaking burning for WAY longer than that.

[jonte95]

He does not answers all prayers. When I used to believe in God...long time ago...NONE of my prayers were answered

and I'm pretty sure most of other people's prayers aren't answered either.

Well you probably didn't have faith then.




um...where are your sources to back that up?


Here's evidence (pictures and text) of chariots in the Red Sea and they've found skeletons in the Red Sea:

http://propheticvoice.co.uk/Ron_Wyatt_-_Pharaoh_s_army_in_the_Red_Sea

---Sorry for double-post, I forgot---

oh. so you haven't prayed, PUTTING FAITH IN, to get healed of this? or have you, and you weren't healed at all? seriously >_>

I can't recall that I've prayed about getting rid of Aspergers syndrome. I actually like Aspergers syndrome a lot, I don't see it as a disease. Ofcourse there have been times I've been depressed/sad about myself being an Asperger.

[Vonn]

Well you probably didn't have faith then.

Or maybe when you pray, you're actually talking to nobody but yourself and the odds of your prayers coming true aren't any better than random chance. On top of that, people love perceiving the "results" of their prayers differently in order to convince themselves that they actually came true omg praise [-]joshua[/-] jesus the grass stain actually came out of my blouse hallelujah.

Also, it's really rude to tell someone that they don't have enough faith in God when they feel lost. You don't know them. They could be pouring their souls into their faith, and when it seems God is ignoring their prayers, that's going to turn people away.

[kenoloor]

Here's evidence (pictures and text) of chariots in the Red Sea and they've found skeletons in the Red Sea:

http://propheticvoice.co.uk/Ron_Wyatt_-_Pharaoh_s_army_in_the_Red_Sea

---Sorry for double-post, I forgot---

I said I was done with this thread. But I'm sorry. This is such a harsh betrayal of logic and conclusive evidence. Using sources that that are clearly biased ("Prophetic Voice" ?!?!!???) is not a good way to debate. In fact it's a really horrible way. Find unbiased evidence, THEN I'll pay more attention to outlandish claims.

Also, it's really rude to tell someone that they don't have enough faith in God. You don't know them. They could be pouring their souls into their faith, and when it seems God is ignoring their prayers, that's going to turn people away.

Yeah, but then he'd be out of an argument.

[Vonn]

Yeah, but then he'd be out of an argument.

He was out of an argument when he submitted the OP.

[jonte95]

Also, it's really rude to tell someone that they don't have enough faith in God when they feel lost. You don't know them. They could be pouring their souls into their faith, and when it seems God is ignoring their prayers, that's going to turn people away.

Well, he said he's not Christian anymore, maybe he didn't follow this:

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

Must have faith! It's the key! To unlock the treasure (healing) you need the key! The key is faith in this case!

Also, here, listen to this anointed, prophetic song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvlioNJfrl4


It's very powerful!

[Jess]

Well you probably didn't have faith then.


how do you know that?

Here's evidence (pictures and text) of chariots in the Red Sea and they've found skeletons in the Red Sea:

http://propheticvoice.co.uk/Ron_Wyat...in_the_Red_Sea

-_-


what Sapphire Flames said. totally agree with her.

[Genghis Khan]

Must have faith! It's the key! To unlock the treasure (healing) you need the key! The key is faith in this case!

It's very powerful!

I had strong faith once, it didn't really work out, I was lying there in desperate need for the Lord and suddenly I just gave birth to a baby lamb.

[Vonn]

Well, he said he's not Christian anymore, maybe he didn't follow this:

http://www.tbm.org/prayers_answered.htm

Jess is a girl.

tl;dr Believe hard enough and long enough and you will get what you asked for. Random chance? Serendipity? Someone else buying/doing something for you and it's exactly what you wanted [-]because you wouldn't quit whining about it[/-]? Of course not! It's God!

And what the hell is this steaming pile:

Dr. Cho, the pastor of the world's largest church, said that many years ago when South Korea was poor, he asked God for a bicycle. Back then a bicycle was a big thing. Well, several months had elapsed, but he had not received the bicycle. Finally he asked the Lord why it was taking so long for Him to answer this prayer. The Lord answered, "Son, you didn't tell Me what kind of bicycle you wanted. There are many different brands, different colors, and different manufacturers. Be specific. What kind of bicycle do you want?"

The Lord sounds like a condescending snob that gets off on waving his [-]dick[/-] power around. Nobody--nobody gets exactly what they want just because they asked God for it.

Must have faith! It's the key! To unlock the treasure (healing) you need the key! The key is faith in this case!

Plenty of people have faith, and it usually does nothing for them. They take it as a sign that the Lord is testing them, so they stay faithful. An endless cycle that gets you nowhere more often than not.

Also, here, listen to this anointed, prophetic song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvlioNJfrl4


It's very powerful!

It does nothing to help your nonexistent argument.

[jonte95]

how do you know that?


What did you pray about then?

[Jess]

it was a long time ago. I don't remember

The Lord sounds like a condescending snob that gets off on waving his power around. Nobody--nobody gets exactly what they want just because they asked God for it.

agreed.

[Sage]

Show's over folks, by OP's request. :hippy:

:locked: