Pledge of Allegiance

[Cybercode]

Yeah I'm going here again.

As you know, veterans day is upon us, and I know there are those who honor those that have served and others who think they are stone cold killers that don't deserve respect. And I know there are those that honor the pledge because you are taking an oath to the flag, the symbol of our country and it's 235 years of existence, and there are those who thinks its pointless and a waste of time (as much as I find that offending)

"Under God" aside, what does the pledge mean to you?

I think it means the oath and allegiance you take to the flag, remembering the freedom we have, and what it took to get it, the Constitution, those that have died for the flag and our freedom, and taking a minute out of my life to reflect upon that.

[Peace God]

Lets celebrate freedom by acting like we're in North Korea!

[Perseus]

I'm reciting a poem to a flag. It means nothing to me.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisivle, with liberty and justice for all.

Seems kind of brain washy to me. I honestly don't see the point in it. You're over here saying stuff about it having to do with the troops when it has nothing to do with it.

[StoppingTime]

I really never thought much of it until I saw your arguments. I always mumble through it, and never say it with any meaning. And you've helped me realize that I'm right!

Why is this something that is so important? I feel its like any other patriotic song, and not much else. Do I respect the country, sure. Do I respect those who fought for it, yes. Does this mean I have to say a pledge to prove it?
I see no point in saying it everyday, or really ever.
What's in there that's so important?

[Sugaree]

I think it means the oath and allegiance you take to the flag, remembering the freedom we have, and what it took to get it, the Constitution, those that have died for the flag and our freedom, and taking a minute out of my life to reflect upon that.

I think it's pretty stupid to look and talk to a flag. Honestly, what's the point in the pledge? It is an absolutely useless thing to say every day. I regard it simply as a large piece of American literature and I shouldn't say it every day just so I can "reflect" on my living on a piece of dirt. It does nothing but inspire blind patriotism, which is exactly what we don't need. And before you go off and get mad saying that none of us are "patriotic" or "love our country", please don't even bother. You'll get none of that here.

[StoppingTime]

And before you go off and get mad saying that none of us are "patriotic" or "love our country", please don't even bother. You'll get none of that here.

Exactly. I like America, but why do I need to recite this to prove it? What does it show and prove? Anything?

[Suicune]

As others have said, the Pledge means nothing to me. I have work to do in the morning and I'm not too happy with the idea of dropping everything I'm doing to talk to an American flag with a Made in China sticker on it.

[Amnesiac]

Well, I think the pledge is pointless and a waste of time.

You can't honor freedom by damaging it, which is exactly what mandatory pledge recital in schools does. Other than that, the pledge itself isn't even correct ("indivisible", "liberty and justice for all") and is nothing more than a way for people to look patriotic. If the pledge-pushers really want to honor freedom and military service, they'd donate their time and money to assisting soldiers and defending civil liberties. Instead, they want the government to force a specific point of view on the people and turn America's youth into mindless patriotic slaves.

A person who truly loves something should never feel the need to make other people love it too.

[aperson444]

Reciting the pledge goes against the very thing that makes America really America. We put so much emphasis on it during the 1950's because we were scared that the Communists were more devoted to their country than us. Blindly following your country and its constituents is not patriotism. It is the exact opposite.

[Cybercode]

Are there anybody on here that think it actually means something like loyalty to the country and it's values (not necessarily values of now or to be politically correct, the values of America from 2000 - 2008, but oh say back in 1897 when the pledge was first drawn up.)

[StoppingTime]

Are there anybody on here that think it actually means something like loyalty to the country and it's values (not necessarily values of now or to be politically correct, the values of America from 2000 - 2008, but oh say back in 1897 when the pledge was first drawn up.)

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".

We live in a free country. That's all I'm seeing. Why do I need to say this to a flag every morning? If we are supposed to be patriotic, blind patriotism isn't going to get us anywhere.

[Sugaree]

Are there anybody on here that think it actually means something like loyalty to the country and it's values (not necessarily values of now or to be politically correct, the values of America from 2000 - 2008, but oh say back in 1897 when the pledge was first drawn up.)

No, it doesn't represent our values now. Back when it was first written, sure, maybe it did mean something. But now, it's just part of our history and world history in total. Right now, the pledge is the last thing anyone should worry about. If you're loyal to your country, if you love it so much, why just say a pledge and be done with it? Help your fellow countrymen. Volunteer at a homeless shelter. Give clothes and toys to poor children for the holidays. Do something that helps the citizens, which will help the country.

[Cybercode]

No, it doesn't represent our values now. Back when it was first written, sure, maybe it did mean something. But now, it's just part of our history and world history in total. Right now, the pledge is the last thing anyone should worry about. If you're loyal to your country, if you love it so much, why just say a pledge and be done with it? Help your fellow countrymen. Volunteer at a homeless shelter. Give clothes and toys to poor children for the holidays. Do something that helps the citizens, which will help the country.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".

We live in a free country. That's all I'm seeing. Why do I need to say this to a flag every morning? If we are supposed to be patriotic, blind patriotism isn't going to get us anywhere.

So you guys are being somewhat closed minded and refuse to see it from my point of view, to actually sit and think about it and it's meaning, instead it's just a waste of time and let's protest against the greedy rich republicans instead.

I have to admit when I was 6 I had no idea what the hell it meant, but after doing my homework, figured out what it truly meant just giving up 30 seconds of your time to recognize our values from the good ole days and those that have fought for this country (Iraq, Vietnam, and Korea war not included if you want to pull that BS on me.) I try to do as much as I can, but in my hectic life, I stop for 30 seconds and give thanks and give respect to our country and it's freedom and those who have bravely served for the constitution. It's the least we can do.

EDIT: Let me add something that I'm upset about. Someone on here requested me to remove my avatar which had an Bald Eagle and next to it the words "Don't mess with me" because it was offending them. I honestly wanted to say too bad, it's my country and I'm proud to be an American, but I respected their rights and I removed it.

[StoppingTime]

I thought about its meaning........ *thinks long and hard*

Got it! It means we live in a country of liberty, and justice. Free country, I never knew that before. Exactly where do you see it saying anything about fighting wars and stand with our troops?

[-]Wow. You're so nice for removing an avatar. I see your views now.[/-]

[Sugaree]

So you guys are being somewhat closed minded and refuse to see it from my point of view, to actually sit and think about it and it's meaning, instead it's just a waste of time and let's protest against the greedy rich republicans instead.

That's not what we're saying. Don't equate us to people of the Occupy movement either, that doesn't work.

I have to admit when I was 6 I had no idea what the hell it meant, but after doing my homework, figured out what it truly meant just giving up 30 seconds of your time to recognize our values from the good ole days and those that have fought for this country (Iraq, Vietnam, and Korea war not included if you want to pull that BS on me.) I try to do as much as I can, but in my hectic life, I stop for 30 seconds and give thanks and give respect to our country and it's freedom and those who have bravely served for the constitution. It's the least we can do.

Firstly, did you just take a subtle jab at our education there? "After doing my homework" seems pretty insulting. Also, the "good ole days" are gone and are better left alone. Don't try to take us back to that, you'll only delay progression. Secondly, there's no point in looking at a flag and giving it empty promises. I care for what people have done for this country, believe me when I say that much. But I don't let it permeate how I think about the country itself. You seem to be doing just that. Thirdly, I've already listed the least you can do and it doesn't include pledging allegiance to anything.

Let me add something that I'm upset about. Someone on here requested me to remove my avatar which had an Bald Eagle and next to it the words "Don't mess with me" because it was offending them. I honestly wanted to say too bad, it's my country and I'm proud to be an American, but I respected their rights and I removed it.

Well, good for you for being PROUD to be an AMERICAN. Because that is just SUCH a thing to be PROUD of. Yeah, look at me, I'm PROUD of being born on a piece of DIRT. Oh, it's just a piece of dirt, but I'm PROUD of it because it's better than YOUR dirt. Nationalism is a hunk of bullshit, you need to realize that much.

[Cybercode]

I thought about its meaning........ *thinks long and hard*

Got it! It means we live in a country of liberty, and justice. Free country, I never knew that before. Exactly where do you see it saying anything about fighting wars and stand with our troops?

[-]Wow. You're so nice for removing an avatar. I see your views now.[/-]


I'm being serious in asking this question, but is this supposed to be sarcastic, cause I honestly have a feeling it is.


Well, good for you for being PROUD to be an AMERICAN. Because that is just SUCH a thing to be PROUD of. Yeah, look at me, I'm PROUD of being born on a piece of DIRT. Oh, it's just a piece of dirt, but I'm PROUD of it because it's better than YOUR dirt. Nationalism is a hunk of bullshit, you need to realize that much.

So your basically saying you don't give a shit about this country, it's values, freedoms, etc.

[StoppingTime]

Nope. I'm dead serious. (Not the long and hard part but...)

This: Got it! It means we live in a country of liberty, and justice. Free country. Exactly where do you see it saying anything about fighting wars and stand with our troops?

100%

[Perseus]

EDIT: Let me add something that I'm upset about. Someone on here requested me to remove my avatar which had an Bald Eagle and next to it the words "Don't mess with me" because it was offending them. I honestly wanted to say too bad, it's my country and I'm proud to be an American, but I respected their rights and I removed it.

I don't see why you didn't just tell the person to shove off. It's your decision. If they're offended by something so petty, they should get the fuck over it. Do what you want, not what others want.

[Cybercode]

I don't see why you didn't just tell the person to shove off. It's your decision. If they're offended by something so petty, they should get the fuck over it. Do what you want, not what others want.

Because "God forbid" (yes that is part of the meaning of my post) that I would offend anybody for showing off my patriotism, much like being in ROTC and someone claiming that I'm a stone cold killer promoting military violence (yes this actually happened to me and it pissed me off so much I wanted to beat the crap out of that person but I tried so hard to keep my restraint that day, because I was in uniform and I was representing not only ROTC and the school, but my country as well.)

[Perseus]

Because "God forbid" (yes that is part of the meaning of my post) that I would offend anybody for showing off my patriotism, much like being in ROTC and someone claiming that I'm a stone cold killer promoting military violence (yes this actually happened to me and it pissed me off so much I wanted to beat the crap out of that person but I tried so hard to keep my restraint that day, because I was in uniform and I was representing not only ROTC and the school, but my country as well.)
It's your decision, man. Tell them to fuck off and do what you want to do. Especially over the internet. Don't let some fuckface control you because they were "offended".

[Cybercode]

@Murdoc: My previous post quoting your post was a little harsh and I apologize, but TBH that's what I got out of it. You just say it's another piece of dirt and it has no meaning what so ever.

[Sugaree]

So your basically saying you don't give a shit about this country, it's values, freedoms, etc.

Wow, thanks for not even caring to read the rest of my post! Here, I'll even bring up a quote from that last post just for you because you're special.


I care for what people have done for this country, believe me when I say that much. But I don't let it permeate how I think about the country itself.

Kid, face it, you're on a piece of dirt like any other nations. There is nothing different about it save a few ideologies. Your "freedoms" aren't special. Your "values" aren't special. And to outright say that I don't give a shit about this country is absolutely false. If I didn't give a shit, I wouldn't bother responding to you. If I didn't give a shit, I would have jumped ship and let YOU sink with the rest of 'em. But I'm here anyway, aren't I?

Because "God forbid" (yes that is part of the meaning of my post) that I would offend anybody for showing off my patriotism, much like being in ROTC and someone claiming that I'm a stone cold killer promoting military violence (yes this actually happened to me and it pissed me off so much I wanted to beat the crap out of that person.)

Ok, here is where we can agree on something. I don't support whatever we're doing in the Middle East or other countries, but to say that all troops are senseless killers promoting innocent killing is a bit too far.

[Cybercode]

I'll tell you what, since people think I'm being ignorant on this issue, I'll end the thread right here right now and I will refuse to stand for the pledge what so ever just because America is a piece of dirt with no value or meaning, and the 235 years of history doesn't mean anything either. Since people say it's not my right to at least get people to think about the pledge for a little bit, since I'm forcing people to do something they don't want to. I'll never stand for the pledge again, I'll never salute the flag again, or thank a veteran, since I don't have to do those things to give respect. This thread is over.

[Perseus]

or thank a veteran
That has nothing to do with the pledge, broski.

[Sugaree]

or thank a veteran

How many times must it be said that the pledge isn't about thanking veterans. It's about giving your life for country in any way you can. Can you imagine that you can work for the country WITHOUT being in the military? Wow!

since I don't have to do those things to give respect.

We've only given OUR reasons on how to give respect to the country. You're the one saying we need to reflect on the pledge and realize it's about the armed forces and their sacrifice. You've forgotten that the pledge is something that is interpreted differently by different people. I interpret it as blind patriotism, which was never the original intention of the poem in the first place. But no, go ahead and think we're telling you to stop doing what you're doing because we don't like it. Seriously man, just do whatever the hell you want. It IS a free country as you've said. Don't let us ruin your freedom.

This thread is over.

Didn't realize you were a mod. So we can't debate this further just because you don't want to? What do you want us to talk about? The Holy Grail? Seriously, if you want to throw a temper tantrum, go ahead, because it only means we've "won" the debate. If you want to stay mad, be our guest, but don't go around saying we don't give a shit about the country or anything relating to it.

[Cybercode]

How many times must it be said that the pledge isn't about thanking veterans. It's about giving your life for country in any way you can. Can you imagine that you can work for the country WITHOUT being in the military? Wow!



We've only given OUR reasons on how to give respect to the country. You're the one saying we need to reflect on the pledge and realize it's about the armed forces and their sacrifice. You've forgotten that the pledge is something that is interpreted differently by different people. I interpret it as blind patriotism, which was never the original intention of the poem in the first place. But no, go ahead and think we're telling you to stop doing what you're doing because we don't like it. Seriously man, just do whatever the hell you want. It IS a free country as you've said. Don't let us ruin your freedom.



Didn't realize you were a mod. So we can't debate this further just because you don't want to? What do you want us to talk about? The Holy Grail? Seriously, if you want to throw a temper tantrum, go ahead, because it only means we've "won" the debate. If you want to stay mad, be our guest, but don't go around saying we don't give a shit about the country or anything relating to it.

Ummm...when you said this is just another piece of dirt, I took it as you said it, a piece of dirt with no values what so ever, and yes the pledge, the flag, has everything to do with people dying for our country. And I'm not forcing you to look at my opinion, I'm just asking you to consider looking at it from another perspective, kinda like Stoppingtime did, just take a good long time to think about the meaning of the pledge, after you did so, you can say all you want it has no meaning. I'm just a little offended because it does have a meaning, a point to everyone, but they haven't stopped and thought about it yet. I'm not a mod and I have no aspirations of ever becoming one, but I'm defeated, after debating I feel no more patriotism for this country anymore, since it lacks the values it had 235 years ago, so I lost this debate, and I'm ending it.

And I was totally fie until you said the "another piece of dirt" comment. that pretty much pissed me off right there, like America is just another dump in the toilet.

Anybody else wanna tell me that the pledge has no meaning and is pointless. Cause after this thread I think it should be banned from every school in he country since the government is trying to force it on people.

And basically it's un-American to recite a pledge that has no meaning to another piece of dirt.

[TheMatrix]

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