Post your unpopular opinions in this thread

[thatfatguy]

my unpopular opinions:

1.Anyone with an IQ below 90 should be sterilized.

2.All immigration should end.

3.Slutty women should have their tubes tied.

4.In order to use the internet, your IQ should be 100 or higher.

5.All drugs should be legal

6.All censorship in america should be abolished.

7.School bullies should be expelled from the entire education system for life. No second chances, no exceptions.

8.Thugs in the ghetto have no exuse to be the way they are. It is nobody's fault but their own.

9.Wellfare should have a time limit.

[Rawwwrr]

my unpopular opinions:

1.Anyone with an IQ below 90 should be sterilized.


So, in theory, we will produce a race of very intelligent humans, correct?

So what happens when 90 is no longer the standard? Do you raise the standard? Where do you raise it to?

2.All immigration should end.



That'd fuck over pretty much every country in the world.

3.Slutty women should have their tubes tied.



Why?

4.In order to use the internet, your IQ should be 100 or higher.



That is not going to happen, ever. As a race we will become more and more reliant upon the internet, it's simply an impractical and obscure idea.



5.All drugs should be legal



There's something we can agree on.



6.All censorship in america should be abolished.



Easier said than done, but in theory I agree with you.



7.School bullies should be expelled from the entire education system for life. No second chances, no exceptions.



Bullies often don't know they're bullies. Also, the term is subjective. If I poke someone they could claim I'm a bully for doing so.



8.Thugs in the ghetto have no exuse to be the way they are. It is nobody's fault but their own.


That's just a clear lack of understanding of their situation. They're poor, and nobody cares about them. They're underrepresented and abandoned. It's not as simple as saying "Just get a job" because there's no jobs to get.

9.Wellfare should have a time limit.



What does this accomplish and what is the purpose?




Unpopular opinions are often unpopular for a reason.

[thatfatguy]

So, in theory, we will produce a race of very intelligent humans, correct?

So what happens when 90 is no longer the standard? Do you raise the standard? Where do you raise it to?


-The standard would not be raised. 90 and above is good enough in my opinion.



That'd fuck over pretty much every country in the world.


-Too bad for them, they should get their crap together instead of freeloading here.



Why?


-they usually have a kid with no daddy and end up being poor living on wellfare, at least that's how it is where i live.


That is not going to happen, ever. As a race we will become more and more reliant upon the internet, it's simply an impractical and obscure idea.


-Yea, well, it's unpopular for a reason.




There's something we can agree on.

-k





Easier said than done, but in theory I agree with you.


-All you have to do is scrap the FCC and any other censorship organizations.




Bullies often don't know they're bullies. Also, the term is subjective. If I poke someone they could claim I'm a bully for doing so.


-There would have to be proof that you bullied somebody in order to get kicked out. And by bullying i mean things like beating up weaker kids, etc




That's just a clear lack of understanding of their situation. They're poor, and nobody cares about them. They're underrepresented and abandoned. It's not as simple as saying "Just get a job" because there's no jobs to get.


-Yes, but they shouldn't try to blame "the man" because it isn't our fault.




What does this accomplish and what is the purpose?


-it prevents wellfare leechers.




Unpopular opinions are often unpopular for a reason.

I find them fun to talk about, it's interesting to learn what weird things people think IMO

[kenoloor]

1. Legalize drugs
2. Legalize prostitution
3. Get rid of censorship
4. Get rid of any restrictions on immigration (this is probably more popular)
5. Get a LEGITIMATE separation of church and state, instead of the bullshit "separation" that we have now
There are probably more, I just can't think of any...

[thatfatguy]

1. Legalize drugs
2. Legalize prostitution
3. Get rid of censorship
4. Get rid of any restrictions on immigration (this is probably more popular)
5. Get a LEGITIMATE separation of church and state, instead of the bullshit "separation" that we have now
There are probably more, I just can't think of any...

Agree with all of those except the immigration

[Rawwwrr]

4. Get rid of any restrictions on immigration (this is probably more popular)

Or, how about this, revise immigration laws to make them more efficient and fair, and devote more resources to keeping illegals out and making life for legals better? I think the issue with removing any restrictions is that it'll overpopulate countries. Jesus Christ, try that in britain and in 10 years the country will be in ruins! We already have too many illegals and legals here, let alone just letting anyone in who wants to!


Anyway... for myself, I can only think of one thing at the moment, and that's that I think fat people should be taxed more. They consume more which wastes huge amounts of resources that went into its production and they're selfish and weak-minded in their nature.

[thatfatguy]

Or, how about this, revise immigration laws to make them more efficient and fair, and devote more resources to keeping illegals out and making life for legals better? I think the issue with removing any restrictions is that it'll overpopulate countries. Jesus Christ, try that in britain and in 10 years the country will be in ruins! We already have too many illegals and legals here, let alone just letting anyone in who wants to!


Anyway... for myself, I can only think of one thing at the moment, and that's that I think fat people should be taxed more. They consume more which wastes huge amounts of resources that went into its production and they're selfish and weak-minded in their nature.

Edit: picture didn't work never mind.

Anyway, i kind of agree with that. However, there should be exceptions for people who actually do have thyroid problems, though they are rare.

[kenoloor]

In response to Rawwwrr , I concede that removing all restrictions would be excessive, I suppose. I do, however, think it should be much, much easier to become a US citizen.

[thatfatguy]

Wonderful rebuttal.

In response to , I concede that removing all restrictions would be excessive, I suppose. I do, however, think it should be much, much easier to become a US citizen.

Most people who say they have a thyroid problems are bullshitting. But there are people who actually have them. If the tax ever gets implemented perhaps they could test for one, then you can't lie about it.

[Rawwwrr]

In response to Rawwwrr , I concede that removing all restrictions would be excessive, I suppose. I do, however, think it should be much, much easier to become a US citizen.

What would the benefit of this be?

[thatfatguy]

Another unpopular opinion: Mass 3rd world immigration is bad. It fucks with the economy and i hate to say it but more crime happens. Also overpopulation

[Rawwwrr]

Another unpopular opinion: Mass 3rd world immigration is bad. It fucks with the economy and i hate to say it but more crime happens. Also overpopulation

I don't think that's either unpopular or an opinion, it's just a fact. We need them to sort themselves out, not rely on us to save them or just run away and live in the UK or the US.

[thatfatguy]

I don't think that's either unpopular or an opinion, it's just a fact. We need them to sort themselves out, not rely on us to save them or just run away and live in the UK or the US.

What kind of immigrants do you get in the UK anyway?

[Rawwwrr]

What kind of immigrants do you get in the UK anyway?

We get lots from Eastern Europe; Polish for example. We also get many who come from Africa in search of a better life.

[thatfatguy]

Oh i forgot to ask, what would be the defining size to be fat? And would the tax increase the fatter you get?

[Rawwwrr]

Oh i forgot to ask, what would be the defining size to be fat? And would the tax increase the fatter you get?

Find the national average, then look at the extremes of each side and work out from there the maximum and minimum healthy weights, there you go. And yes, the fatter you get, the more you're taxed for food etc. Fat people are selfish, weak-minded individuals who have no idea how lucky they are to live in a country that practically hands them pork pies on a plate, while there's children in africa who starve to death.

[Sage]

-I should be able to infract and/or ban people for being stupid assholes.
-People who don't know how to break up quotes should stay the fuck out of the debate board.
-IQ is an extremely flawed and unreliable way of measuring intellect.
-Most poor people have very good reason to be lazy.
-The Occupy Wallstreet movement is an extremely positive and necessary thing.
-Sex purely for pleasure is a wonderful thing and people should get off their moral highhorse.
-Israel doesn't have a right to exist.
-Being overweight isn't something to be proud of, it's unhealthy and unsightly.
-Capitalism is self-destructive.
-Education is a right, not a privilege.
-Conservatives tend to be humorless and uncultured.
-Arts and humanities are just as important as science and maths.
-Soldiers don't give us freedom, nor have they defended it since WW2.
-Wicca is a fad, not a religion.
-->even if it were a religion, it'd still be stupid.

come at me bro

[Abyssinian]

Reading the above opinions.. I have a few things to add quickly...

People should have to pass a psyche, drug and financial test before being allowed to breed.
(That being said, I think it should be easy for anyone who will be able to support and love their child to have one, I don't think it should be like the adoption system for instance =/)

I agree that fat people should be taxed more, IF they have no medical reason to be that way. Or, I dunno.. forced into a gym membership or something for their own good!

Ignoring the immigration debate, people who come here should have some kind of time limit to make their English actually understandable..

I don't have much more to add. Most of my opinions are echoed by the majority of people I know.

[Sage]

People should have to pass a psyche, drug and financial test before being allowed to breed.

How the fuck do you enforce that?

[kenoloor]

How the fuck do you enforce that?

Government-issued chastity belts.

[Sage]

Government-issued chastity belts.

I'm gonna laugh with you and assume you're joking, because if not that's easily the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum ever. :P

[kenoloor]

I'm gonna laugh with you and assume you're joking, because if not that's easily the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum ever. :P

Are you kidding?! Of course I'm not serious. That'd be the worst idea in the world.

[Sage]

Are you kidding?!

You'd think you've heard everything after being on this board as long as I have, but nope.

[RoseyCadaver]

Modern agriculture is fucking up the Earth(as in factory farms and gardens).
The end of the world(as we know it) will be a slow and drawn out process.
The oceans should be catered and have more attention then the rain forest are getting.
Public schools aren't all that bad,then again I came from a Catholic school and now in public highschool.
Ghetto people are a lot nicer then middle class people.
Schools should teach at LEAST one foreign language,but the more the merrier.
Pansexual is just a way of saying you are bi with out so many strings attached.
Chinese isn't a hard language to learn.
Most people from the south aren't illiterate,over all's wearing,cousin fucking red necks.

[Swimmer93]

Re topic 1 - I know this sounds rather horrid but who do you think is going to build your fancy house while your exploring the quantum field theory - I dont think people with IQ's ranging between 140-160 do much brick laying!!

Re topic 8 - It's rather easy sitting on the sideline making unjust statements re the lives of those in the slums/ghettos, where in true fact we should be working with them trying to relieve the poverty in those areas. Not all people choose to live a life of poverty. When you live in a world where you have kids to look after, and no way to make sure they sleep at night with a bit of food in their stomach - crime is the easiest option. Im not promoting the way they act, dress or the 'bad actions' they make, im just saying that we should rather try to understand the lives that they are living. If gov isn't making the change, we should at least try.

Re fat people - Do you truly think all fat people sit at a burger joint and stuff their face until they cant eat no more? Some people have metabolism issues, and i think we need to accept that.

May'be I'm a little biased but thats my opinion...

[Abyssinian]

How the fuck do you enforce that?
Government-issued chastity belts.
I was GOING to say you can't really.. fine the parent's of a child if they didn't? Or evaluate them once they HAVE the kid?... but Saph, your idea is way better xD

[KICKASSKID]

if it was possible and it's not so far but i'd quite like a world with no females in it at all.

[Amaryllis]

1.Anyone with an IQ below 90 should be sterilised.
Hohoho. IQs are contagious now, aye? If so, everyone around me would be geniuses and everyone around you would be dumb!

[-](Kidding)[/-]

2.All immigration should end.
If immigration ended a long, long time ago, you wouldn't be in Atlanta. In fact, you probably wouldn't exist.

3.Slutty women should have their tubes tied.
And slutty men should have their vas deferens cut and sealed as well? How is anyone's sex life any of your business?

4.In order to use the internet, your IQ should be 100 or higher.
Oh yeah, man. I dare you to point at everyone you believe to have an IQ lower than 100 and be like "Hey, you! Dumbass! You can't use the internet cause you're schtupid!" You'd probably end up pointing at at least half of the people you've met or know, possibly more.

What right do you have to believe in such a thing? How is anyone else's use of internet related to you?

5.All drugs should be legal
Oh yeah. Let the little 4 year old inject some heroin into her system because it's legal like candy.

6.All censorship in america should be abolished.
In america? Why just america?

7.School bullies should be expelled from the entire education system for life. No second chances, no exceptions.
Do you know what "bullies" have been through? How is this going to improve their situation or help them change? You'll just end up with a bunch of criminals on the street who can't get a decent job or life so they end up stealing, becoming homeless, committing suicide or perhaps even killing everyone else.

Everyone makes mistakes. Kids can be immature. Does this mean they deserve such treatment? Have you ever been rude? Ignorant? Arrogant? Mean? How would you like it if you were forced into a terrible life, just because you were a child?

Not to mention, you'd end up expelling over half of the students in school.

8.Thugs in the ghetto have no exuse to be the way they are. It is nobody's fault but their own.
Let's see you go through everything they've been through. Let's see you try to survive on hardly anything. Okay, maybe they don't have an "excuse", yes, they need to face the consequences of their actions.

But, saying it's nobody's fault but their own, is pretty much saying abuse victims who feel like shit need to suck it up. People going through depression need to get over it. Kids who suffer from bullying aren't allowed to feel shitty. Gay people shouldn't protest because hey, it's their own damn fault. People with no money who steal a loaf of bread are evil. Nobody asked them to have emotions or bodies!

9.Wellfare should have a time limit.
Huh. Let's let all the old people with relatives who don't give a damn die.

[Sage]

if it was possible and it's not so far but i'd quite like a world with no females in it at all.

Why? Women are fucking awesome.

[kenoloor]

Pansexual is just a way of saying you are bi with out so many strings attached.

No, no, no. Bisexual means you're only attracted to men or women. Pansexual covers the whole gender spectrum.

[Rawwwrr]

No, no, no. Bisexual means you're only attracted to men or women. Pansexual covers the whole gender spectrum.

There are only two genders. :what:

[kenoloor]

There are only two genders. :what:

There are only two sexes* there's a whole spectrum of gender.

[Rawwwrr]

There are only two sexes* there's a whole spectrum of gender.

Such as?

[RoseyCadaver]

There are only two sexes* there's a whole spectrum of gender.
This is true.
No, no, no. Bisexual means you're only attracted to men or women. Pansexual covers the whole gender spectrum.

I know,that is why I was saying no strings attached silly :P.As in strings to gender .I consider myself pan,because I would date a hermaphrodite or some other gender other then male and female,but I still feel pansexuality is just a loose form of being bi.

Such as?
Some people don't consider themselves to be male or female,so they could consider themselves androgynous.Some men and women think of themselves as the opposite "sex's gender".

[Jess]

if it was possible and it's not so far but i'd quite like a world with no females in it at all.

1. humans would eventually die out unless men find a way to reproduce
2. what have you got against females?
3. what about a world with only females? :P

[kenoloor]

1. humans would eventually die out unless men find a way to reproduce
2. what have you got against females?
3. what about a world with only females? :P

Agree with everything.
Oh, and number 3 is the best idea thus far. :p

And @SecretSalt , sorry, I read it differently. Also, just to play politically correct police here, the proper term is intersex, not hermaphrodite. But I get what you're saying.
@Rawwwrr, many other cultures have more than two socially accepted genders. Readily coming to my mind is Native American culture where they have something like 5 (I could be wrong on the exact number) genders. But it still is all on a spectrum, similar to sexuality (i.e: Kinsey Scale).

[Rawwwrr]

3. what about a world with only females? :P

That'd cause the apocalypse.


Have you ever seen a group of very highly strung women try and work in a group? It just doesn't work, period. Just watch The Apprentice if you need any evidence, you get fighting, feuds, rumours.. women work great in groups of mixed gender but put them in a group of only women and it's a recipe for destruction.


Now imagine that group being World Leaders. See where I'm going? :P


That said, men aren't exactly perfect. They wave around their nuclear weapons like it's representative of how massive their dicks are.

[kenoloor]

That said, men aren't exactly perfect. They wave around their nuclear weapons like it's representative of how massive their dicks are.

Too true.

[Efflorescence]

Ummm, these are mine:

I'm pro-life so I think abortion should be illegalized unless mother's life is in danger.

I think that marriage is bullshit because it takes away much of your independence and it's impossible to spend all your life with only one partner (pls VT don't think I'm a slut, it's just....well think whatever you want:))

Parents who are not there for their children for no valid reason at all should be stoned:P ahem....arrested or something.

I hate most steps....as in stepmothers and stepfathers.

The death penalty is sometimes necessary.

No movies/books should be censored (applies to my country only).

(I will add more later on but these are all I can think of for now....:)...)

[kenoloor]

I think that marriage is bullshit because it takes away much of your independence and it's impossible to spend all your life with only one partner (pls VT don't think I'm a slut, it's just....well think whatever you want:))

agree. Not to mention its a religious institution that the government is involved in. Hello?! Separation of church and state.

[Jess]

That'd cause the apocalypse.


Have you ever seen a group of very highly strung women try and work in a group? It just doesn't work, period. Just watch The Apprentice if you need any evidence, you get fighting, feuds, rumours.. women work great in groups of mixed gender but put them in a group of only women and it's a recipe for destruction.

I don't believe that's necessarily true. :/ what if a group of only women work well together?

[Rawwwrr]

I don't believe that's necessarily true. :/ what if a group of only women work well together?

I think the problem is that they don't.

[kenoloor]

I think the problem is that they don't.

Gross generalizations are always effective.

[Syvelocin]

^ This

My lord, you sound like you've never met a woman in real life. We're not all the same as the airheads on TV. I work fine with women, now, I'm prone to have issues working in groups with men. But I know many men who are decent people, who do not match the typical male stereotype that makes me want to vomit. I expect men to be the same, to not expect every woman to be stereotypical. If you discount my mental illnesses, I'm actually very laid-back and low-maintenance. Shocker.

[Jess]

I think the problem is that they don't.

how do you know that?

is one thing, "The Apprentice" you mentioned, enough evidence?

[Rawwwrr]

Gross generalizations are always effective.

It's a fact that I've never seen reason to argue against in my entire life. I see it all the time in school. A perfect example is The Apprentice, a TV show I'm sure you've seen. The girls team argue and bitch and feud the whole show and then they go into the board room, take all their emotions and personal issues with them and fight it out in front of Sir Alan and make themselves look like school girls.


I'm not saying all women are incapable of working as a team with other women, just that I've never seen an example of them being able to do so and plenty of examples where they haven't been able to. In school I see it every day, and the teachers do too which is why they encourage mixed gender groups, to ensure teams work effectively. Groups of only boys mess around, groups of only girls get catty and unprofessional, the best thing is a mixture.

[kenoloor]

It's a fact that I've never seen reason to argue against in my entire life. I see it all the time in school. A perfect example is The Apprentice, a TV show I'm sure you've seen. The girls team argue and bitch and feud the whole show and then they go into the board room, take all their emotions and personal issues with them and fight it out in front of Sir Alan and make themselves look like school girls.


I'm not saying all women are incapable of working as a team with other women, just that I've never seen an example of them being able to do so and plenty of examples where they haven't been able to. In school I see it every day, and the teachers do too which is why they encourage mixed gender groups, to ensure teams work effectively. Groups of only boys mess around, groups of only girls get catty and unprofessional, the best thing is a mixture.

TV shows are definitely a solid representation of society around the world.
And just because there is a stereotype that says that, doesn't mean it's true for everyone. Gosh, I thought people figured that out by the time they were 10. I know some cops who don't like donuts. WHAT?!?! Crazy, right?! Somebody who defies stereotypes??? Never.

[Jess]

In response to Rawwwrr , I concede that removing all restrictions would be excessive, I suppose. I do, however, think it should be much, much easier to become a US citizen.

I agree. I was born in Canada and I've only just became a permanent resident. My older brother's one too and he's 18. if we were able to become US citizens sooner, he would be able to vote if he wanted to. I would be able to vote.

my mom told me that she and Dad got their citizenship in Canada fairly quickly

[embers]

I'm not saying all women are incapable of working as a team with other women

Really?

It's a fact that I've never seen reason to argue against in my entire life.

I think the problem is that they don't.

I think you're making an incredibly stupid generalisation. So what, you watch a reality show and you believe people in your school are dim. Of course that means it's fact!

[Rawwwrr]

TV shows are definitely a solid representation of society around the world.
And just because there is a stereotype that says that, doesn't mean it's true for everyone. Gosh, I thought people figured that out by the time they were 10. I know some cops who don't like donuts. WHAT?!?! Crazy, right?! Somebody who defies stereotypes??? Never.

Just because it's a stereotype doesn't mean it's not correct. In my experience, the stereotype has been reinforced time and time again. You saying that it's not true will not change my mind or others.

I think you're making an incredibly stupid generalisation. So what, you watch a reality show and you believe people in your school are dim. Of course that means it's fact!


As soon as I see a group of women who work together without getting catty or losing their professionalism, my opinion will be altered. I'll let you know when I see one. Also, I never said it was a fact, just an opinion.

You're all wasting your time arguing with me. The only thing that's going to convince me otherwise is if I see proof with my own eyes. You might as well just look to someone else to debate with, because my opinion will not be swayed by yours.

[embers]

As soon as I see a group of women who work together without getting catty or losing their professionalism, my opinion will be altered.

Look harder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Union_of_Women%27s_Suffrage_Societies). (Obviously that isn't by far the best and/or only example.)

Also, I never said it was a fact, just an opinion.

It's a fact that I've never seen reason to argue against in my entire life.

[Rawwwrr]

Careless wording. It's just an opinion.

[embers]

Careless wording. It's just an opinion.

One with a terrible foundation.

[kenoloor]

One with a terrible foundation.

Dammit, I was gonna say that!

[Rawwwrr]

One with a terrible foundation.

You know what will change my opinion? Not you telling me it's wrong because you disagree.


Things like this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/11/women-equality-competition-gender) are how I base my opinion, and that article does sway me significantly even though I dislike the hints of misandry in it.


Actual statistics and facts sway me, not just mass disagreement.

[embers]

You know what will change my opinion? Not you telling me it's wrong because you disagree.


Things like this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/11/women-equality-competition-gender) are how I base my opinion, and that article does sway me significantly even though I dislike the hints of misandry in it.


Actual statistics and facts sway me, not just mass disagreement.

As I said, the link I gave you wasn't the best or only example. Bravo, you looked harder.

I never said it was wrong because I disagree.

[Rawwwrr]

As I said, the link I gave you wasn't the best or only example. Bravo, you looked harder.

I never said it was wrong because I disagree.

The group you chose is a difficult for one for me to agree with seeing as I have a burning hatred of modern Feminism (hey that counts as an unpopular opinion right?)

[deadpie]

1.Anyone with an IQ below 90 should be sterilized.

Richard Feynman's IQ was 126
William Shockley's was 125
Luis Alvarez's was below 135 (he failed to qualify for Terman study)
Francis Crick's IQ was 115

Genius people with no genius score. Just saying, IQ test is pretty bad. Even if it is more "up to date", I don't know if I'd rely on that for knowing someone's over all intelligence.

90 is below average, not mentally challenged in the first place. Are you from fucking Russia or something?

[Efflorescence]

my unpopular opinions:

1.Anyone with an IQ below 90 should be sterilized.


You're joking right? Human rights do not have anything to do with some stupid IQ result. AS IF...

8.Thugs in the ghetto have no exuse to be the way they are. It is nobody's fault but their own.

Perhaps, it's the only community where thugs feel accepted because society has isolated them and treated them badly. Have you ever thought about that?

-Conservatives tend to be humorless and uncultured.

I don't know much about this so I could be wrong, ok?
But isn't it just a political party? How does voting for a particular party make you uncultured and humourless? And what if you decide to change party?

-Arts and humanities are just as important as science and maths.

How is this an unpopular opinion? I thought it was quite for granted that they are equally important.

[kenoloor]

I don't know much about this so I could be wrong, ok?
But isn't it just a political party? How does voting for a particular party make you uncultured and humourless? And what if you decide to change party?

"Conservative" is used to describe certain types of values or belief systems "Republican" is the political party most often associated with Conservatism.

[Efflorescence]

"Conservative" is used to describe certain types of values or belief systems "Republican" is the political party most often associated with Conservatism.

Many people are conservative when it comes to certain beliefs and liberal when it comes to others, they could be something in between...and what do these tend to be in that case....semi-cultured and semi-humorous? That's what I want to ask him.

[StoppingTime]

Israel doesn't have a right to exist? Why? What is the reason that Palestinians can take over their state because they want to?

[Efflorescence]

Israel doesn't have a right to exist? Why?

And that is another one...I wanted to ask him but forgot. It's a pretty big thing to say....saying that a country doesn't have the right to exist, even if there's this ongoing conflict! As if.....

[Rawwwrr]

I'm going to quote a user from Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/j2d9r/ok_heres_a_really_difficult_oneisrael_and/c28kjgl) in response to the questions about Palestine and Israel.

Imagine you are a person living in an old house.
You hear about another guy across town whose roommates beat him up and kicked him out. According to legends and history, this other guy used to live in the house you have now, and his parents and grandparents before him did too, and their family always talks about it as "theirs".
So one day the cops show up at your door with this guy and say,"So we've worked out a solution to this guy's problem. You know how he got beat up and kicked out of his house? Well we're going to have him move in here, with you, because his parents and grandparents lived here."
"But, I live here now. He, his grandparents and parents were evicted many years ago. I knew they were evicted because of fighting with their neighbors, and some racism may have been involved and it may not have been fair, but this is my house now. I do not want him to live here," you say.
"Well that's tough son. We think it would be great for him, and he's done a lot of campaigning about it, so that's it. He's moving in. But don't worry, we'll make it cool for you. We'll split the house up with a line of duct tape, with the kitchen being shared by both of you. So there won't be any problems! It works out for everyone!"
"Well that's horseshi-" you start to say, but he's already in your house, relaxing on your couch. The cops leave, and its just you and him.
So you constantly fight, physically and verbally. All his friends hate you and your friends, and all your friends hate him and his friends. You still don't believe that he has a right to live in the house, and he still thinks that he should be allowed to live there and prosper because of all the history and legends about his family living there.
You are Palestine, the other guy is Israel, all his friends are the Israeli Jews and their supporters (the U.S. being one), all your friends are the Islamic Arab world, and their supporters (which are numerous), the duct tape line is the border between modern day Israel and Palestine, and the kitchen is Jerusalem.
Editors note: Obvious oversimplification. Also, I chose to make this from the point of view of the Palestinians. I will make another from the point of view of the Israelis. Also note that this is only the description of the origin of the conflict, and not the entire history.

[aperson444]

1. Israel has no right to exist (Israel is waging a genocide against Palestine, and it's gone too far)
2. Legalize all drugs
3. Legalize prostitution
4. Legalize all forms of pornography (Not including pornography involving murder, minors under 10, or torture)
5. Sterilize people with severe disabilities, but let them live normal lives
6. Destroy Capitalism and install a Libertarian Communist system with many independent states rather than a single large nation.
7. Take money from the rich, distribute to the poor and nationalize all industries

[embers]

The group you chose is a difficult for one for me to agree with seeing as I have a burning hatred of modern Feminism (hey that counts as an unpopular opinion right?)

They were campaigning for the women's right to vote, and I hope you aren't so backwards as to believe that is a bad thing.

[Sage]

Israel doesn't have a right to exist? Why?

I don't believe being a 'race' (Jewish isn't a race, semitic is, and jews aren't the only semites) or being part of a religion doesn't entitle a group of people to their own special country just for them. If you allow a state to define itself on racial or theocratic terms, it's inevitably going to use that as a basis for discrimination, which Israel already has. I'm against the idea of a 'Jewish' state for the exact same reasons I'd be against a Christian state or Nazi Germany.

[Rawwwrr]

They were campaigning for the women's right to vote, and I hope you aren't so backwards as to believe that is a bad thing.

Of course not. I just think they're causing more harm than good at this point and that they're campaigning for female superiority rather than equal rights seeing as they already have equal rights. They also routinely vilify and demonize the male half of the species and have caused almost-irreparable harm to us. Everywhere you can see it. Try walking through a park on your own as an adult male.

I remember reading a story in the Guardian about a woman who rang the police because a father was waiting with his daughter outside Sainsbury's for his wife to finish paying. She presumed he was a pedophile and called the police.
Then there's the way men are portrayed in the media: apparently we're all lazy, in competent slobs who rely on women to live our lives. You see it in commercials (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_74_36Tqk), morning television (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkl_oLSKQc), sitcoms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7U0r7vIrgM); you name it, there's misandry in there.
Not to mention the widespread idea that violence against men is somehow funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80bwy9iKaEg), something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGmz3wrpOJA) to be considered funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqm-5iR_kPI).


Those are just two very small examples of the negative ways modern feminism has impacted us. Not to mention a host of other huge issues, such as unbelievably discriminatory Family (http://deltabravo.net/custody/stats.php) Court Laws (http://www.proactivechange.com/divorce/statistics/research-rates.htm), positive discrimination, female immunity (http://works.bepress.com/gang_lee/5/) from the law (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/10/28/Ohio-teacher-sentenced-to-4-years/UPI-60841319839011/) and exponentially (http://www.glennsacks.com/blog/?page_id=1334) rising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#False_reporting) false rape (http://ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume2/j2_3_1.htm) claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_allegation_of_child_sexual_abuse) that are presumed true by the public thereby ruining the man's life (seeing as only the accuser has anonymity.. how backwards is that?!) before he's even been to court.
There's also a huge disparity in workplace deaths, with men being 92% (http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi_rates_2010hb.pdf) of all workplace related deaths, lack of (http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/dom/lupri05.htm)social support (http://www.thereformedbuddhist.com/2011/09/homelessness-male-epidemic-by-omission.html), a discriminatory (http://www.ccl-cca.ca/ccl/Reports/OtherReports/201104GenderReport.html) education system (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm) that is widely acknowledge to be failing our boys and the social acceptability of male genital mutilation (also known as Circumcision).
Not to mention the undefendable fact that while there are over 7,500 domestic violence abuse shelters for women currently in the UK, there are just 60 for men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_shelter#Male_victims). There's also the horrifying but completely ignored fact that 9 out of 10 homeless people are either men or boys (http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/feminism-and-the-plague-of-male-homelessness/), and yet feminists are campaigning against female homelessness, completely ignoring the fact that women don't have a problem with homelessness, it's men that need the help.


While many of these are not necessary a direct effect of deliberate attempt by feminists (although many are), my main problem is that Feminism, and Feminists, have absolutely no interest in addressing these huge "elephant in the room" issues that face men in society today. In fact they're more interested in passing legislation to force women into CEO positions and government parliaments than they are in actually working towards equality. I have never in my life seen a protest by feminists to address a single one of these issues, ever. The only ones I've seen are by MRAs (Mens Rights Activists) and on that basis MRAs have my full support and Feminists my full opposition.


With all that said, I acknowledge the benefits feminism can bring to many third world countries, like those in Africa where more equality for women is definitely needed. However I believe that in the developed world, Europe, US etc., it has simply gone too far and has become less of a search for equal rights and more of a fight for extra rights; to be treated better than men and to eventually have men be considered second class citizens.


Sorry for the long post but I hope that this makes some of you aware of the extent to which men are being discriminated against in society and how little is being done by not just feminists, but anyone, to rectify these issues.


Also, this (http://radicalhub.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/radical-feminism-in-the-21st-century/) is where feminism has led us.

I think this sums up my views on those who claim that MRAs and such are just angry men with women problems.


Because we've been told for so long (and our instinctive/socialized views of men being self-sufficient and strong) that men have it good. Better than anyone else. So good, they have the luxury of treating women like objects and oppressing them.
Then someone says, "Men have issues and real problems with discrimination and institutional oppression, not because a particular man is black or gay, but because he's a man," and it hits that wall of societal misperception of men that is so ingrained in people's psyches, and the only way they can reconcile what they're hearing with whatthey believe all the way down to their toes is to conclude that men asserting their rights are actually demanding the right to oppress women.
Men are privileged, right? So if they're asking for something, they must be asking for more privilege, because men have always had ALL the rights. And when you look at all the ways men have been smeared over the last 40 years or more--abusers, rapists, patriarchal terrorists, toxic masculinity, hyper-aggression, players, oppressors--it's very easy to construct an image of what kinds of privilege men are demanding that fits the cultural narrative.
It's not true, so they don't provide any credible evidence, and what few examples they can come up with can be construed as the rule, and therefore applicable to all, because that fits the cultural narrative and our cultural conceptions of maleness. In the same way that a hideously misandrist feminist blogger can be construed as the exception that proves the rule that feminists (and women) are nice, because THAT fits the cultural narrative too.
It feels true to them, so it must be true.

Reference (http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/lxpsi/are_you_all_incredibly_angry_delusional_hateful/c2wfyjb)

[Jess]

I don't agree with the feminists that want extra rights for women, want women to be treated better than men. we're supposed to be treated EQUALLY, I agree.

I support feminists who advocate for rights in countries where women have little or no rights.

[Jupiter]

I feel that coexist should be forced. A lot more than it is now.

[Jess]

I feel that coexist should be forced. A lot more than it is now.

what? what's coexist? :confused: I thought "coexist" was a verb

[Jupiter]

pardon me. I mean "coexisting." :)

[Amaryllis]

I feel that coexist should be forced. A lot more than it is now.

How? Coexistence means you are existing together - peacefully.

Forcing someone to get along does not necessarily mean they will not be hostile towards each other behind closed doors, or retain their inner hatred. In fact, it might even add fuel to the fire. Just because bullying is against the rules, doesn't mean people actually follow the rules.

[embers]

Of course not. I just think they're causing more harm than good at this point and that they're campaigning for female superiority rather than equal rights seeing as they already have equal rights. They also routinely vilify and demonize the male half of the species and have caused almost-irreparable harm to us. Everywhere you can see it. Try walking through a park on your own as an adult male.

While I appreciate that you took the time to write such a long post, I first of all wasn't debating feminism, and secondly the NUWSS don't even exist anymore. They aren't a feminist society, they only existed in the early 20th century to campaign for women's right to vote.

[Church]

1. Legalize drugs.
2. Legalize prostitution.
3. Lower drinking age to 18.
4. If a baby is detected to be mentally retarded before birth it should be legally forced to be aborted.
5. Kick out all illegal immigrants and let them come back in the right way.
6. Complete seperation of church and state.
7. English as our official language.
8. Take "Under God" out of Pledge of Allegiance, and "In God We Trust" off money.
9. Change from Electoral College to popular vote

[Efflorescence]

1. Israel has no right to exist (Israel is waging a genocide against Palestine, and it's gone too far)


This is like saying 'Palestine has never existed'. Why can't they co-exist?

4. Legalize all forms of pornography (Not including pornography involving murder, minors under 10, or torture)


Minors under 10? So if they're twelve years old they can take part in pornography?

5. Sterilize people with severe disabilities, but let them live normal lives


If they don' want to be sterilized, you have no right to do it.

6. Destroy Capitalism and install a Libertarian Communist system with many independent states rather than a single large nation.


I'm not a huge fan of capitalism. But I cannot deny that it produces skilled workers and resources which are needed.

7. Take money from the rich, distribute to the poor and nationalize all industries

Oh hello Robin Hood. What if they have worked hard for their money? They should give money to the poor but no one should force them

[Rawwwrr]

Minors under 10? So if they're twelve years old they can take part in pornography?

He means watching it. Derp.




If they don' want to be sterilized, you have no right to do it.
The whole 'rights' thing is over emphasized. It's not important. What's important is whether it brings benefits or not, that's what the debate should focus on.

I'm not a huge fan of capitalism. But I cannot deny that it produces skilled workers and resources which are needed.
Neiher communism nor capitalism work. Communism is fundamentally flawed and capitalism is a recipe for eventual anarchy and revolution due to the unfairness it brings with it. The ideal state is a mixture of all three: anarchy, socialism and capitalism, all mixed into the pot.



Oh hello Robin Hood. What if they have worked hard for their money? They should give money to the poor but no one should force them


Funny, that's the same argument used to say that the rich shouldn't pay more taxes than poor people.

[Jupiter]

I'm afraid to post anymore opinions because everyone is getting picked apart.

[Efflorescence]

He means watching it. Derp.


I misunderstood then. My mistake. However, 10 is too young, even for watching. 18 is the right age.

The whole 'rights' thing is over emphasized. It's not important. What's important is whether it brings benefits or not, that's what the debate should focus on.


What benefits you may not benefit others and vice-versa. So what now? The state should start sterilizing people? And rights are important and should be respected.

Neiher communism nor capitalism work. Communism is fundamentally flawed and capitalism is a recipe for eventual anarchy and revolution due to the unfairness it brings with it. The ideal state is a mixture of all three: anarchy, socialism and capitalism, all mixed into the pot.


I agree bro, but easier said than done.


Funny, that's the same argument used to say that the rich shouldn't pay more taxes than poor people.

I'm all for helping the poor. I've helped them myself and we need more people helping them. However, you cannot force people to give money to the poor. It's their money. Taking money away from people in this manner would be stealing. That's all I'm saying.

[AllThatYouDreamed]

4.In order to use the internet, your IQ should be 100 or higher.

6.All censorship in america should be abolished.

7.School bullies should be expelled from the entire education system for life. No second chances, no exceptions.

Don't 4 and 7 contradict 6?
Free expression is free expression, regardless of IQ. If you have to pass an IQ tests to use the internet, you're censoring that person's ideas and opinions.

Bullies, while I don't generally condone it, are also expressing a point of view and expelling them would be censorship.

~~~

- Elections by popular vote
- Death penalty more frequently used, note that evidence must be beyond any doubt (rather than "reasonable" doubt) and used on violent sex offenders/those who offend on minors 10+ years younger than them (so all child molesters, removes the "16&19" bullshit from getting added into this)
- Self defense is legal. Ffs, you shouldn't get tried for murder if you kill someone who's trying to hurt you.
- No limits on technological/scientific advancement. If you come out with the next superweapon, good on you. No, the government can't confenscate this it's your intellectual property.

Um, besides the drugs/prostitution/age of consent, I got nothing else I can think of to share.

Oh. True laisse-faire capitalism is a good idea. [am i the only non-socialist on the forum?]

[Rawwwrr]

I misunderstood then. My mistake. However, 10 is too young, even for watching. 18 is the right age.

I would pay you £100 if you found a 17 year old man who had not either/both watched porn or masturbate. Heck, every 15 year old guy I know already has been doing so for years.


What benefits you may not benefit others and vice-versa. So what now? The state should start sterilizing people? And rights are important and should be respected.



The important thing is what benefits society overall.

[aperson444]

This is like saying 'Palestine has never existed'. Why can't they co-exist?

Let me reword that. Israel had no right to kick the Palestinians out and establish a Jewish state. Before Israel, there WAS coexistence. Christians, Jews and Muslims lived alongside each other. Israel is not a legitimate state. It's a US puppet state. It does not deserve to exist as such. Rather, Palestinians and Israelis should combine to form a secular government (a democracy as well). Those who can't accept some Muslim or some Christian influence on the nation (along with some Jewish influence) ought to leave.

Minors under 10? So if they're twelve years old they can take part in pornography?

I was referring to watching it and producing it, but I think production should still be gray area material. It should only be prosecuted once the pornography escalates. And for children under say 16 to take part, they need full parental consent, all the profit must go to the child (none will be given to the parents) and there must be some kind of watchdog agency supervising said production.

If they don' want to be sterilized, you have no right to do it.

If they can consciously say that and interpret what that statement means, then they shouldn't be forced to do it.

I'm not a huge fan of capitalism. But I cannot deny that it produces skilled workers and resources which are needed.


The USSR did the same thing. Now, most Communists don't see the USSR as truly Communist, but the truth is that monetary competition and reward is not the only motivation for skilled labor.

Oh hello Robin Hood. What if they have worked hard for their money? They should give money to the poor but no one should force them

Sorry buddy, that's how it has to work. I think that the bigger threat is multi and trans-national monopolies and oligopolies rather than individuals who have a lot of money.

Neiher communism nor capitalism work. Communism is fundamentally flawed and capitalism is a recipe for eventual anarchy and revolution due to the unfairness it brings with it. The ideal state is a mixture of all three: anarchy, socialism and capitalism, all mixed into the pot.

I never believed in pure Communism, but I am firmly against a large-scale capitalist system. I think that small scale barter-trade systems within individual states is fine, but for the most part it should be an anarchist collection of loosely regulated Marxist states, although I think ideas of Bakunin and Kropotkonin should be applied as well as anarcho-syndicalist ideas.

[Rawwwrr]

I was referring to watching it and producing it, but I think production should still be gray area material. It should only be prosecuted once the pornography escalates. And for children under say 16 to take part, they need full parental consent, all the profit must go to the child (none will be given to the parents) and there must be some kind of watchdog agency supervising said production.

Okay, I apologise to whoever I corrected, you're right: this guy genuinely is saying we should legalise child pornography and make it legal for children to parcitipate.


Dude, do you have any idea how fucked up that paragraph is? Jesus fucking Christ


CHILDREN ARE NOT CAPABLE OF GIVING PERMISSION.

Their parents are also not able to give consent on their childs behalf.


Jesus Christ..

I will sort of meet you half way though: I see no reason why a properly supervised 16-18 year old should not be able to, as long as they are properly examined (mentally, maturity etc.) and parental/guardian permission, participate in these things. Below 16 is absolute no-go area.

[aperson444]

How many parents would allow that if they got no economic gain from it? Very few. Children are humans. They do what they want. I said it should be gray area, or rather decriminalized. This means possession and small-time distribution but not large-scale production would be illegal. If some sexual predator commits a crime, let them be charged for the crime, not the fact that they watch taboo porn. However every single act should require consent and thorough examination -- like I said standards. Pornography can entail everything from simple nudity to actual sex. If any parent consents the latter at an age below like 15, then they are not fit to be parents. However, I still believe that kids over 13 have gained enough maturity to decide and face any consequences of their actions. It's an ugly world; let people see that for themselves.

[Jess]

I would pay you £100 if you found a 17 year old man who had not either/both watched porn or masturbate. Heck, every 15 year old guy I know already has been doing so for years.

my older brother is 18...and has done neither. now please don't argue with me about this. for some reason I find both things really REALLY disgusting so I don't want to talk about either any further. -_-


Okay, I apologise to whoever I corrected, you're right: this guy genuinely is saying we should legalise child pornography and make it legal for children to parcitipate.


Dude, do you have any idea how fucked up that paragraph is? Jesus fucking Christ


CHILDREN ARE NOT CAPABLE OF GIVING PERMISSION.

Their parents are also not able to give consent on their childs behalf.


Jesus Christ..

I will sort of meet you half way though: I see no reason why a properly supervised 16-18 year old should not be able to, as long as they are properly examined (mentally, maturity etc.) and parental/guardian permission, participate in these things. Below 16 is absolute no-go area.

I agree with this. under 16? no freaking way.

[thatfatguy]

if you aren't at least a quarter native american, you should be deported.

women are NOT equal to men

age of consent should be taken down to 13. At age 13, i think you are intelligent enough to make the choice.

[StoppingTime]

Sage, if you don't believe in religion being able to govern a state, what do you think Palestine would turn into? Also, Israel is a "Jewish/semetic" state, but they don't only allow Jews to live there.

[Perseus]

my older brother is 18...and has done neither. now please don't argue with me about this. for some reason I find both things really REALLY disgusting so I don't want to talk about either any further. -_-





What, are you with your brother 24/7 or something?

women are NOT equal to men
I'm curious to see your reasoning to this.

[Rawwwrr]

my older brother is 18...and has done neither. now please don't argue with me about this. for some reason I find both things really REALLY disgusting so I don't want to talk about either any further. -_-

Haha, he told you that and you believed him? :rolleyes:

[Jess]

women are NOT equal to men

what made you say that? women freaking are equal to men


Haha, he told you that and you believed him? :rolleyes:

he did not say anything of the sort. I know him better than YOU and I know he is not the sort of person that does those things. enough about that okay? I don't want to go any further.

[thatfatguy]

what made you say that? women freaking are equal to men

Why is it that even the weakest of men can easily beat the hell out of a woman?

[Rawwwrr]

if you aren't at least a quarter native american, you should be deported.

Now you have to be trolling. You have to be. You want 99.9% of all Americans deported? really? Please tell me you're just playing Devils Advocate or something?

[Perseus]

he did not say anything of the sort. I know him better than YOU and I know he is not the sort of person that does those things. enough about that okay? I don't want to go any further.

That's a silly reasoning. Looking at naked women (or men) preforming sexual acts and stuff has nothing to do with "the kind of person you are". Don't be naive about these kind of things.

[Amnesiac]

Church and state should be completely separated.
People should keep their moral platforms to themselves.
All drugs should be legalized.
Polygamy should be legalized.
Sex offenders are given punishments that do not fit their crimes.
Censorship is wrong.
The government should not assist or harm the free market.
Our immigration problem is caused by a system wrapped in red tape, not an unsecure border.
Isreal can go fuck itself.
The U.S. shouldn't give out aid to other nations.
Respect is earned, and being in a position of authority does not automatically create it.
Authority is inherently corrupt.
It should be left up to the media companies to stop piracy, not the governement through legislation.
Laws that "protect the children" hurt everybody else.
Rules need a reason to exist.

[Jess]

Why is it that even the weakest of men can easily beat the hell out of a woman?

um..where's the proof of that?

[thatfatguy]

Now you have to be trolling. You have to be. You want 99.9% of all Americans deported? really? Please tell me you're just playing Devils Advocate or something?

stupid arse europeans took our land and STILL discriminate to this day. you destroy the environment and get morbidly obese from mcdonalds. you don't deserve to be here.

um..where's the proof of that?

what are boys taught from the moment they are born?

"you can't hit a girl because they are weaker than you"


Please don't double post; instead edit your first post. I've merged both of your posts together. -Jon/Rafiki

[embers]

Why is it that even the weakest of men can easily beat the hell out of a woman?

http://bodybuildingunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/femalebodybuilder.jpg

[Amnesiac]

stupid arse europeans took our land and STILL discriminate to this day. you destroy the environment and get morbidly obese from mcdonalds. you don't deserve to be here.

Oh, please. It's been 300 years. Yes, the European conquest of the world was not a good thing and caused a fuckload of problems for many regions, but none of that can be undone now. Holding grudges against people of European descent because their brainwashed ancestors invaded the land of Native Americans just doesn't make any sense. It was wrong, we all know that, but rectifying that situation is a modern impossibility and being all pissy about it doesn't contribute to creating the kind of peaceful society you say you want.

While there might be some discrimination against Natives, calling for the eradication of the United States isn't a solution to your complaints. How about cooperating instead? Starting a protest? Voicing your concerns?

Also, it's ignorant to act like if the Natives had been left to advance by themselves, they'd be any cleaner or healthier than the present American population. Obesity and pollution are things that affect every nation, and race hasn't played a part in how those issues have come about.

[Jess]

what are boys taught from the moment they are born?

"you can't hit a girl because they are weaker than you"

omg. some women can be stronger than men. not all of us are freaking weaker than you men

[thatfatguy]

image (http://bodybuildingunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/femalebodybuilder.jpg)

yea because that is TOTALLY natural. if it isn't photoshopped.

[embers]

yea because that is TOTALLY natural. if it isn't photoshopped.

They're called female bodybuilders, you moron.

[Amnesiac]

Why is it that even the weakest of men can easily beat the hell out of a woman?

What does this have to do with legal equality? Physical differences between the sexes doesn't pertain in any way to treatment of both equally by society and under law. Unless you want some disgusting patriarchal society.

[Jess]

so you think the weakest man can beat up a woman who...say, took martial arts?

[thatfatguy]

omg. some women can be stronger than men. not all of us are freaking weaker than you men

I don't see what you're so mad about. That is simply a law of nature, women tend to be smaller and less strong, men tend to be stronger and bigger. It's like that for most animals in the world. Of course there are exceptions, but they aren't very common.

[Jess]

that doesn't mean we're not equal to men. -_-


What does this have to do with legal equality? Physical differences between the sexes doesn't pertain in any way to treatment of both equally by society and under law. Unless you want some disgusting patriarchal society.

THIS THIS THIS THIS

[thatfatguy]

They're called female bodybuilders, you moron.

lol did i strike a nerve? XD

[embers]

lol did i strike a nerve? XD

Nope, you just come across as very ignorant.

[thatfatguy]

that doesn't mean we're not equal to men. -_-

You also tend to operate on emotion, and can't cooperate in groups well. Much like children. But once again you aren't all like that.

[Amnesiac]

You also tend to operate on emotion, and can't cooperate in groups well. Much like children. But once again you aren't all like that.

Yeah, and black people tend to be violent. But they're not all like that.

What point are you trying to make? Really, it seems like you're throwing around stereotypes, all of them completely unfounded, to support some terrible concept of inequality among the genders.

[Jess]

3.Slutty women should have their tubes tied.

why only women? what about men? >_>

[thatfatguy]

why only women? what about men? >_>

Men can't be whores. Also we can't get pregnant and be single moms that leech on wellfare.

[Amnesiac]

my unpopular opinions:

1.Anyone with an IQ below 90 should be sterilized.

Since when is an IQ test – or any test at all – a comprehensive measure of intelligence?

2.All immigration should end.

What do you have against the right of a person to reside wherever they want?

3.Slutty women should have their tubes tied.

In what way does a person making the choice to be slutty effect you at all? Also, in response to your above post, why can't you modify the welfare system instead of violating the individual rights of people who make the decision to live that lifestyle?

4.In order to use the internet, your IQ should be 100 or higher.

Again, how do "stupid" people effect you in any way, and since when was an IQ test a comprehensive measure of intelligence?

7.School bullies should be expelled from the entire education system for life. No second chances, no exceptions.

So you don't believe in rehabilitation?

[embers]

Men can't be whores. Also we can't get pregnant and be single moms that leech on wellfare.

However, men can abandon responsibility for children they are responsible for making, leaving mothers in a shit state.

You seriously aren't helping yourself here.

troll?

[Rawwwrr]

He's right about one thing, women are biologically weaker than men. Of course there's women who bodybuild deliberately and then there are always going to be weak men, but honestly if you try to argue that women are not physically weaker than men as a general biological rule then you're a moron who needs to go back to pre-school, who also hasn't taken 5 seconds to Google it where you would have found out the many ways in which women are weaker than men, for instance bone density and percentage of body muscle. He's just taking it to the next step and saying "Because women are biologically inferior to men in some ways, I believe that they are therefore not equal to men". Not an opinion I share, but I can sort of see where he's coming from.

[thatfatguy]

troll?

Because if you don't like what i say, i must be a troll right?

[embers]

Because if you don't like what i say, i must be a troll right?

Nope, it's because you make completely unfounded generalisations and then ignore all the refutations.

[thatfatguy]

Nope, it's because you make completely unfounded generalisations and then ignore all the refutations.

It is not natural for women to get as big as the one in your picture. The only way they get like that is from intense bodybuilding and possibly sterioids. The same goes for ultra gigantic men.

[embers]

It is not natural for women to get as big as the one in your picture. The only way they get like that is from intense bodybuilding and possibly sterioids. The same goes for ultra gigantic men.

The generalisation that the weakest man can beat up any woman is still incorrect.

[Rawwwrr]

The generalisation that the weakest man can beat up any woman is still incorrect.

One thing I've noticed about the way you debate: you're awfully good at nitpicking very small things and then using those to try and convince others that the entire position is void. Yes, it was a generalisation, but it's almost certainly one caused by haste rather than opinion. A good debater knows when to lit it slip an when generalisations are different to what they seem. I very much doubt that he's dumb enough to think that the weakest man in existence could beat up any given woman, he was quite obviously just trying to make the same point I made but in a more blunt way.

Though you can nitpick and say that that's incorrect, you've done a great job of actually ignoring the main subject matter of his post. He claims that because women are on average weaker than men (don't waste your time disputing this, you're cleverer than that I can tell) they are therefore not equal to men. You must actually offer a reason as to why he is wrong, not just nitpick little things like that and pretend they mean his entire position is wrong, though he would certainly do well to be more careful in his wording in future as it will inevtiably end up with someone like you calling him out on it. While I understand that you must set him straight, you've spent a lot of time arguing over nonsense little things and you two have spent very little time actually debating the core subject matter of his position.

[thatfatguy]

The generalisation that the weakest man can beat up any woman is still incorrect.

I worded it wrong, my apologies. I mean when it comes to just plain old natural humans, the women are almost always smaller and weaker. Sorry, that's just how we evolved. Deal with it.

[embers]

I worded it wrong, my apologies. I mean when it comes to just plain old natural humans, the women are almost always smaller and weaker. Sorry, that's just how we evolved. Deal with it.

Why is that a valid argument for why women shouldn't be treated equally to men?

[StoppingTime]

I worded it wrong, my apologies. I mean when it comes to just plain old natural humans, the women are almost always smaller and weaker. Sorry, that's just how we evolved. Deal with it.

This is true in every case? And even if it was, that wouldn't matter because we all do different things, so that's pointless to say that when they are born an never walked that's how it is, which isn't true to my knowledge either.

[thatfatguy]

Why is that a valid argument for why women shouldn't be treated equally to men?

Most women do not have very good logical thinking skills, and run on emotions and hormones. Therefore they should not be trusted to make big decisions. They get angry over nothing and tend to solve problems with violence rather than words. I bet if a woman was president, she'd start a damn world war over someone insulting her hair.

[embers]

Most women do not have very good logical thinking skills, and run on emotions and hormones. Therefore they should not be trusted to make big decisions. They get angry over nothing and tend to solve problems with violence rather than words. I bet if a woman was president, she'd start a damn world war over someone insulting her hair.

Do you actually have ANY foundation to back up those statements?

[StoppingTime]

What you are saying is ridiculous. You are going by a stupid, sexist stereotype. Give me hard evidence to back up what you said.

[Jess]

Most women do not have very good logical thinking skills, and run on emotions and hormones. Therefore they should not be trusted to make big decisions. They get angry over nothing and tend to solve problems with violence rather than words. I bet if a woman was president, she'd start a damn world war over someone insulting her hair.

in some countries the president/prime minister/whatever is female. and they make big decisions. did any of them get angry over nothing?

and what you've just said is sexist garbage.

[Rawwwrr]

Why is that a valid argument for why women shouldn't be treated equally to men?

There is a difference between saying that women are not equal to men and that women should not be treated with equal amount of respect to men. I don't believe that women necessarily are equal to men in all respects (but I believe that women are better than men at other things, for instance being a carer) but I sure as hell believe they deserve to be respected just as much.

That said his outburst later is ridiculous sexist garbage. For starters he thinks that only women solve problems through violence and not words, something both genders are equally likely to do.

This is true in every case? And even if it was, that wouldn't matter because we all do different things, so that's pointless to say that when they are born an never walked that's how it is, which isn't true to my knowledge either.

Not in every case, but you'd be a fool to try and dispute that women are the weaker of the two sexes.

[thatfatguy]

What i say about intelligence really only applies to american women. Women in other countries are more educated and aren't taught to be delicate little princesses that are entitled to everything and spend the day talking about "totally hot guys" men are also stupider in america. Yes, white people really made our land a wonderful country. I should be thanking you guys.

[StoppingTime]

That last post makes no sense. What are you trying to say?

[Amnesiac]

Most women do not have very good logical thinking skills, and run on emotions and hormones. Therefore they should not be trusted to make big decisions. They get angry over nothing and tend to solve problems with violence rather than words. I bet if a woman was president, she'd start a damn world war over someone insulting her hair.

This is the most absurd example of sexism I've ever seen. It's basically the same as saying that "most men are violent, ignorant bastards". You have absolutely no justification for what you are saying. Patriarchy is wrong. The stereotypes you're pushing here don't have any place in a reasoned debate.

What i say about intelligence really only applies to american women. Women in other countries are more educated and aren't taught to be delicate little princesses that are entitled to everything and spend the day talking about "totally hot guys" men are also stupider in america. Yes, white people really made our land a wonderful country. I should be thanking you guys.

What? You've let your ridiculous patriarchal views get the best of you. Now you're just spewing completely random and dubious tidbits about some perceived American inferiority. Since when have American women beeng "stupider" than other women? Can you cite a reliable source that says that? What's with the subtle racism against whites? Europeans colonizing the United States isn't a valid reason. As I said in a previous post that you ignored, the problems you keep talking about aren't restricted to the United States or "white people"; they occur all throughout the human race.

[Jess]

That last post makes no sense. What are you trying to say?


I think he's saying American women are dumb and are raised to be little princesses

I think.

[Rawwwrr]

I think he's saying American women are dumb and are raised to be little princesses

I think.

That is indeed what he is saying, and while he'd need some statistics for 'dumb', his opinion that many American women raised to be little princesses is a view held by a large number of Non-Americans.

[StoppingTime]

Yea, I think that was it. Like Justin said, can you provide anything to back that up?

[Amnesiac]

That is indeed what he is saying, and while he'd need some statistics for 'dumb', his opinion that many American women raised to be little princesses is a view held by a large number of Non-Americans.

I just don't see how anything he's saying is relevant. Actually, I don't even see how the issue of women being genetically unequal to men is relevant. That's a fact, it doesn't need to be debated. Meanwhile, his entire argument against legal and social equality between the sexes is based on overblown stereotypes that make my brain melt. Nothing here connects, it's just a ton of unfounded, terrible social stereotypes.

[Rawwwrr]

I just don't see how anything he's saying is relevant. Actually, I don't even see how the issue of women being genetically unequal to men is relevant. His entire argument against legal and social equality between the sexes is based on overblown stereotypes that make my brain melt.

I think his only valid point is that of biological strength. The rest is just a load of sexist nonsense that should have died out a long time ago.


And it's relevant because it's actually not unreasonable for a person to go from "women are biologically weaker" to "Women are inferior" to "Why should we them equally?". I don't agree but you have to admit it's understandable if flawed logic, lacking a great deal of context, common sense and common human compassion with a strong moral compass.

[thatfatguy]

A fine example of most american women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGR7hh0se2k&feature=player_embedded

and here is a redneck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANTDkfkoBaI

really, thanks. You make us natives look so primitive.

[Amnesiac]

I think his only valid point is that of biological strength. The rest is just a load of sexist nonsense that should have died out a long time ago.

And it's relevant because it's actually not unreasonable for a person to go from "women are biologically weaker" to "Women are inferior" to "Why should we them equally?". I don't agree but you have to admit it's understandable if flawed logic, lacking a great deal of context, common sense and common human compassion with a strong moral compass.

Yeah, but I don't see why we needed to talk about biological strength in the first place, nor do I see why that's a valid argument concerning legal rights. We don't base equality on how weak people are physically or mentally. It's a system based on the potential to be a greater person, as it should be.

I guess I can see why some think about equality that way, however, as you said, it lacks basically any justification beyond a flawed scientific analysis of the situation.

A fine example of most american women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGR7hh0se2k&feature=player_embedded

Yeah, let's judge a nation of 150 million women using one video!

[StoppingTime]

All I did was read the title to know this is ridiculous. You think this is a fine example f how most American women are? Do you have any evidence or hard facts that say this? This example is meaningless.

[Rawwwrr]

Yeah, but I don't see why we needed to talk about biological strength in the first place, nor do I see why that's a valid argument concerning legal rights. We don't base equality on how weak people are physically or mentally. It's a system based on the potential to be a greater person, as it should be.

I guess I can see why some think about equality that way, however, as you said, it lacks basically any justification beyond a flawed scientific analysis of the situation.

Actually I think it's definitely fair for someone to say "women are weaker, so in that respect they are inferior, however they make up for this in other areas". If we actually analysed this scientifically and came to the conclusion that actually women are actually inferior to men overall, then honestly I don't see how one could claim that they are equal. However that is not reality and in reality men and women have different strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other; I think the worst thing we, as a society, can do (and are doing) is pretending that men and women are the same and not working to put each sex's advantages to use.

A fine example of most american womenhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGR7hh0se2k&feature=player_embedded

and here is a redneck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANTDkfkoBaI

really, thanks. You make us natives look so primitive.


Sure let's judge them all based on this one video...

[thatfatguy]

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internationalism/are-americans-stupid-statistics-and-research-data this shows that Americans are on average less intelligent than other countries.

[Amnesiac]

Actually I think it's definitely fair for someone to say "women are weaker, so in that respect they are inferior, however they make up for this in other areas". If we actually analysed this scientifically and came to the conclusion that actually women are actually inferior to men overall, then honestly I don't see how one could claim that they are equal.

I agree. However, that in itself has no effect on societal equality – our friend thatfatguy wants to connect the two and use the scientific inferiority of women as a basis for treating them unequally in real-life situations.

However that is not reality and in reality men and women have different strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other; I think the worst thing we, as a society, can do (and are doing) is pretending that men and women are the same and not working to put each sex's advantages to use.

Indeed. However, it's important that both men and women are treated equally under law and by society so that all of their abilities can be put to use. True, we can't call both sexes completely equal, however, we can treat them the same to ensure the best of both worlds come into play. If men are put above women, all the potential of the female sex is suppressed.

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internationalism/are-americans-stupid-statistics-and-research-data this shows that Americans are on average less intelligent than other countries.

Honestly, man, I don't see where you're going with this.

[Rawwwrr]

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internationalism/are-americans-stupid-statistics-and-research-data this shows that Americans are on average less intelligent than other countries.

Ah, i was hoping you'd find that link, I have that one bookmarked.


Yes, it's actually true, America is one of the least educated countries of the developed world. They routinely score low on school results, common knowledge questions and how much they know about current events.


However "on average less intelligent than other countries" is one of the weakest statements I've heard in my life.


Also, this study says nothing about women in particular, just men. Although, then again, given that due to positive discrimination against men women are now the majority in universities we can sort of presume that this is very applicable to men as well as women. I think it just tells us that as a country, the US just isn't very educated.

[StoppingTime]

That link had nothing to do with anything you previously had said.

[thatfatguy]

Ah, i was hoping you'd find that link, I have that one bookmarked.


Yes, it's actually true, America is one of the least educated countries of the developed world. They routinely score low on school results, common knowledge questions and how much they know about current events.


However "on average less intelligent than other countries" is one of the weakest statements I've heard in my life.


Also, this study says nothing about women in particular, just men. Although, then again, given that due to positive discrimination against men women are now the majority in universities we can sort of presume that this is very applicable to men as well as women. I think it just tells us that as a country, the US just isn't very educated.

I didn't say america is a bunch of dumbasses because i didn't want to start a shitstorm. I couldn't find any studies on women, so i admit to being wrong unless i find some. I posted that as proof for my point that this country was better before settlers came along. Natives would have advanced eventually on their own, like all races have.

[deadpie]

if you aren't at least a quarter native american, you should be deported.

women are NOT equal to men

age of consent should be taken down to 13. At age 13, i think you are intelligent enough to make the choice.

Fuck yeah dude. Get rid of pretty much everyone of this country. Just throw all of those people in the fucking ocean or in the middle of the Congo. They're not true Americans, plus, even if they are true Americans, they also have to hate women, worship Jesus, not be stupid (Stupid people are SO FUCKING STUPID!!!!). Ron Paul/Rick Perry 2012!!!!

I agree. All women are fucking whores, whine about getting raped (They obviously deserve it because men are pure souls and smarter), they're all weak, not ONE SINGLE WOMAN CAN BEAT UP A MAN, they don't deserve rights as humans because they're not humans, they're animals, those fucking monsters with boobs that we love to fuck! But we can't show emotion. If you show emotion that defeats the purpose of having sex with a woman, because she'll feel your emotion and that makes YOU A WOMAN AND THEN YOU HAVE TO BE SHOT IN THE FUCKING HEAD because transgenders are even WORSE THAN WOMEN!!!!

Nah man, change the age of consent to NINE! And get the little girls tubes cut too.


Dude, we should be friends. I agree with like, everything you say. LOGIC!!!!11oneone1

[Efflorescence]

women are NOT equal to men

age of consent should be taken down to 13. At age 13, i think you are intelligent enough to make the choice.

At age 13, you're mature enough? Do you know what you're saying? Mannnnnn..........some country you'll have with fuckin 13 and 14 year olds strutting half naked with 60 - year olds! As if it's not bad already!

Okay, I apologise to whoever I corrected, you're right: this guy genuinely is saying we should legalise child pornography and make it legal for children to parcitipate.

I thought so.

Fuck yeah dude. Get rid of pretty much everyone of this country. Just throw all of those people in the fucking ocean or in the middle of the Congo. They're not true Americans, plus, even if they are true Americans, they also have to hate women, worship Jesus, not be stupid (Stupid people are SO FUCKING STUPID!!!!). Ron Paul/Rick Perry 2012!!!!

Who fuckin said that you have to worship Jesus?
Just let me worship him myself and I don't care whom you worship, ok? As long as you let me live my life in peace, you can worship a frikkin wall. That's what I think.

And if someone wants to vote for Ron Paul, then he/she should be allowed to vote for who the fuck they want. It's their choice and there's nothing you can do about it. That's all.

[Peace God]

Not in every case, but you'd be a fool to try and dispute that women are the weaker of the two sexes.
He's right about one thing, women are biologically weaker than men.
if you try to argue that women are not physically weaker than men as a general biological rule then you're a moron who needs to go back to pre-school, who also hasn't taken 5 seconds to Google it where you would have found out the many ways in which women are weaker than men, for instance bone density and percentage of body muscle.
Hi, fool/moron here.

1. Biological strength isn't mostly about muscle strength.
2. Immune system strength is more important than muscle strength.
3. Women have stronger immune systems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2042665/Women-superior-immune-systems-men.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110927192352.htm
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20090412032931data_trunc_sys.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/09/28/why-women-have-stronger-immune-systems-than-men/

K, going back to preschool now 'cuz I'm such an idiot.
"Because women are biologically inferior to men in some ways, I believe that they are therefore not equal to men". Not an opinion I share, but I can sort of see where he's coming from.

And it's relevant because it's actually not unreasonable for a person to go from "women are biologically weaker" to "Women are inferior" to "Why should we them equally?". I don't agree but you have to admit it's understandable if flawed logic, lacking a great deal of context, common sense and common human compassion with a strong moral compass.
You can "sort of see where he's coming from"? It's "not unreasonable"? :crazy:

Why are you going out of your way to indirectly defend stances like that? I get that you're sort of doing the devil's advocate thing but really... who says that?

[Rawwwrr]

Hi, fool/moron here.

1. Biological strength isn't mostly about muscle strength.
2. Immune system strength is more important than muscle strength.
3. Women have stronger immune systems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2042665/Women-superior-immune-systems-men.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110927192352.htm
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20090412032931data_trunc_sys.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/09/28/why-women-have-stronger-immune-systems-than-men/

K, going back to preschool now 'cuz I'm such an idiot.


It's more important in your opinion. But, seeing as the majority of diseases (bar STIs) have been contained or removed from Earth, it's no longer hugely necessary, especially in the developed world although of course in Africa it's important.


Also, while muscles are not the most important thing, men are still the most physically strong overall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans#Strength.2C_power_and_muscle_mass), for instance bone density, height and weight.


But hey, at least we now know where the idiots are. :yawn:


You can "sort of see where he's coming from"? It's "not unreasonable"? :crazy:

Why are you going out of your way to indirectly defend stances like that? I get that you're sort of doing the devil's advocate thing but really... who says that?


Because in his own twisted way I can sort of see how he would reach that conclusion. I don't agree with it, and I don't think he should take that next step in 'logic' (or lack thereof) but when we acknowledge the fact that women are physically weaker his stance becomes understandable. However he has failed to take into account that women are better than men at many other things and of course men are also better at other things. The two sexes compliment each other and he's completely failed to take this into account. The rest of what he said about women thinking with their fists etc. is complete bullshit (although technically women are neurologically more emotional creatures than men) that should have died out years ago.

[Peace God]

It's more important in your opinion. But, seeing as the majority of diseases (bar STIs) have been contained or removed from Earth, it's no longer hugely necessary, especially in the developed world although of course in Africa it's important.
Please tell me you're joking. A good immune system is no longer hugely necessary? A good immune system is less important than physical strength? What do you think the leading causes of death are? bar fights? No, health problems.

And death by gunshot wounds are irrelevant in this discussion because you don't need to be stronger than someone to kill them with a gun.

Also, while muscles are not the most important thing, men are still the most physically strong overall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans#Strength.2C_power_and_muscle_mass), for instance bone density, height and weight.
Again why is physical strength so important in the 21st century? There aren't sabertooth tigers and mammoths roaming our back yards any more. But there's still millions of people dying from health issues.

But hey, at least we now know where the idiots are. :yawn:
:yes:

[StoppingTime]

Yea, nobody needs immune systems. There are thousands of people dying each day from disease in Africa. But we have gotten rid of most diseases? Have you heard of cancer? Do you know how many people die from that? How about a heart attack, a stroke etc... I could keep going.

But yea, as long as you have muscles this won't bother you. :no:

[Rawwwrr]

Please tell me you're joking. A good immune system is no longer hugely necessary? A good immune system is less important than physical strength? What do you think the leading causes of death are? bar fights? No, health problems.

Immune systems are not responsible for all health issues.
It depends what you're aiming for when you say 'important'. Sure, they'll fight off some diseases better (and it's hardly that significantly better) but in actual physical situations such as a fight or battle they'll die very quickly.


And death by gunshot wounds are irrelevant in this discussion because you don't need to be stronger than someone to kill them with a gun.


Try telling that to someone who's had to wear army gear for 24 hours a day in Iraq. I'm pretty sure they'll tell you it's physically demanding.


Again why is physical strength so important in the 21st century? There aren't sabertooth tigers and mammoths roaming our back yards any more. But there's still millions of people dying from health issues.


Because you still need physical strength to be a soldier and if you deny that then you lack any understanding of what a soldier is, does and what is required of them.


Yea, nobody needs immune systems. There are thousands of people dying each day from disease in Africa. But we have gotten rid of most diseases? Have you heard of cancer? Do you know how many people die from that? How about a heart attack, a stroke etc... I could keep going.

But yea, as long as you have muscles this won't bother you. :no:


Who said you don't need them? I just believe that men's advantage over women of physical strength is greater than that of women's advantage over men of immune systems. Also, a 13 year old just tried to lecture me. lulz.

[StoppingTime]

Lulz, your still wrong. First off, I was being sarcastic when saying nobody needs them. Of course we do. But how can physical strength better beat an illness than a better immune system?

[Rawwwrr]

Lulz, your still wrong. First off, I was being sarcastic when saying nobody needs them. Of course we do. But how can physical strength better beat an illness than a better immune system?

I'm not talking about illnesses, you are.

[StoppingTime]

You still have yet to show me a logical example on why immune systems are less important than physical strength.

[Rawwwrr]

You still have yet to show me a logical example on why immune systems are less important than physical strength.

Because while we can eliminate diseases and we can cure them and constantly improve upon our medical knowledge, women will always be weaker.

[StoppingTime]

So... I am not seeing what this has to do with anything. Women will always be physically weaker? What does that show? And do you think that's true in ever case?

[Iris]

Because while we can eliminate diseases and we can cure them and constantly improve upon our medical knowledge, women will always be weaker.

You are missing the point. Your argument is that while men and women are on equal footing in terms of intelligence, men are physically superior to women. The problem with that is there's more to physical strength than muscle mass. Physical diseases are very much a part of physical strength. A person can have as many muscles as his or her body can hold, but if that person is dying of cancer, is he or she physically superior to someone with no muscles at all, who doesn't have tumors throughout his or her body? Think about it.

[Sage]

but honestly if you try to argue that women are not physically weaker than men as a general biological rule then you're a moron who needs to go back to pre-school, who also hasn't taken 5 seconds to Google it

I think everyone else is doing a splendid job of figuratively tearing your open a new asshole, but I think it should established that a five second google search does not make you an expert on anything, and if you use arguments found in such a search, it's blatantly obvious and makes you look belligerent and uneducated.

[aperson444]

Lol at the massive flame/argument here.

Men are not greater than women, nor vice versa. How the fuck is that so hard to understand? They both have their own role. It is true that men tend to be stronger than women, but it's just biology. Men have denser bones and produce more androgenic hormones (which promote muscle growth). The role of the female in biology is generally to raise and harbor offspring, so their immune system is stronger, they have more fat and a lighter build. The whole reason that female and male exist is for that very reason -- one individual carries some genetic material and protects and provides for another while the other individual harbors offspring and raises them. I'm not saying that's how it should be in modern times, just that it's the situation.

Because while we can eliminate diseases and we can cure them and constantly improve upon our medical knowledge, women will always be weaker.

Moot point. We can't outsmart disease. Remember, some diseases have been around for longer than humans. Immune strength is very much relevant. IF you're sick, you can't reproduce. If you can't reproduce, you can't pass on genetic information. Survival of the fittest. It's true that immune superiority is not as set in stone as physical strength seen in males. Immune superiority is not controlled by biological or biochemical pathways like male physical strength is (androgens and probably bone mineralization factors).

It's more important in your opinion. But, seeing as the majority of diseases (bar STIs) have been contained or removed from Earth, it's no longer hugely necessary, especially in the developed world although of course in Africa it's important.

Nope. We've eliminated smallpox completely. That's all. No matter how hard we try, there will still be polio/cholera. Much as a result of Capitalism placing economic disparity between people who can procure vaccines/medicine and those who cannot. Nevertheless, do not underestimate nature. Diseases are constantly mutating and evolving and there will be some that will lead to our demise at some point. A plague is inevitable.

At age 13, you're mature enough? Do you know what you're saying? Mannnnnn..........some country you'll have with fuckin 13 and 14 year olds strutting half naked with 60 - year olds! As if it's not bad already!


I see 0 logic in the AOC argument. Why is it so bad to bring age of consent down to 13? Do you really think kids today are that naive? They can make their own choices and face the consequences. If some 13 year old girl screws a 60 year old man one day (provided it's consensual) or vice versa, then that kid should face the regret and consequences. It was their choice, they should suffer for it. They can wallow in that suffering or they can let it go. There will still be a negative stigma surrounding 13-60 relationships, so that 60 year old will also face some social scrutiny. Both parties suffer. There should be no laws binding that.

[deadpie]

Who fuckin said that you have to worship Jesus?
Just let me worship him myself and I don't care whom you worship, ok? As long as you let me live my life in peace, you can worship a frikkin wall. That's what I think.

Lol, I was kidding. Making fun of thatfatguy by using his own philosophies, as if it wasn't obvious. Guess it wasn't.

[Marky]

You also tend to operate on emotion, and can't cooperate in groups well. Much like children. But once again you aren't all like that.

Wit a minute you also tend to react upon emotion as well. I was reading your past posts on this debate and you seem to be emotionally attached to the past (that I might state you took no part in) in the time when the Europeans came over. You dont seem to cooporate in groups well either because from this point of view you are way to opinionated to accept or realize and flaws in your thougnts or plans.

[Sporadica]

my unpopular opinions: (I borrowed some of OP's)

1. You should have to pass a test in order to be eligible to vote.
2. All drugs should be legal
3. All censorship should be ended.
4. Thugs in the ghetto have no excuse to be the way they are. It is nobody's fault but their own.
5. The Post office should be privatized
6. All guns, including full auto fire, should be legal and only limit on gun purchasing is be 18, no mental health issues, and no criminal record
7. Have a blind election.

If I think anymore I'll edit my post.

[otrapersonak2nosabes]

My opinions. (Not meant to offend anyone)
-People who do drugs are a waste of space. They waste money and time that can be spent helping people -
-Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want moron!-
-"Ghetto Mexicans should not be allowed to reproduce from this point on (I come from a line of Mexicans *puro mexicano*so I m not trying to be racist)-
-Everyone should save sex for marriage, not for religious reasons, but because I think it makes your first moment so much more amazing. And wait on the first kiss till you know you have deep feelings.-
-Porn is a drug, and should be less accessible to youth, adults have all their rights to do what they want, but kids are clueless-
-Schools are too easy ( no matter what programme yur in, generally it isn't that much different)-
-using tye words that start with n and f do nit make you cool, you just sound stupid-

-American food is so gross and blande ( with some exceptions)-
Again, I don't want to offend. But that's just how I think

[AppealToReason]

My opinions. (Not meant to offend anyone)
-People who do drugs are a waste of space. They waste money and time that can be spent helping people -


Well, I'm going to assume you mean illegal drugs and not alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, ect, but I don't understand what you mean by "they waste time and money". How exactly? Besides, shouldn't we spend some of that time and money to help the drug users so they aren't a "waste of space"?

[deadpie]

-People who do drugs are a waste of space. They waste money and time that can be spent helping people -

Most of the musicians you listen to are a waste of space then. Your favorite comedians too I'm sure. Also, drugs is quite open. Alcohol and tobacco are legal drugs that can hurt you worse than many drugs that are illegal. Are you against those? What about prescription medication abuse?

Such a closed minded statement beyond reality.

Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want moron!-

Actually, it does.

"Ghetto Mexicans should not be allowed to reproduce from this point on

This is so utterly racist, even if you "come from a line of mexicans", it makes no difference. Herman Cain is black and is racist against black people, so yeah, you can be racist about your own race by stereotyping and judging. Not all mexican families fuck furiously and have ten kids.

Everyone should save sex for marriage

Uh, marriage isn't legal for everyone (Cough cough, people who aren't straight here in certain parts of the US and other places outside). So they can't have sex at all then?

Porn is a drug

It's not physically addictive, only mentally. You cannot smoke, drink, plug, shoot porn.

and should be less accessible to youth,

Just make them more clueless and stupid to things like sex, then they'll act more immature and curious about what sex is. True story bro. The more you try to push things away from the kids the more they'll want it.

Schools are too easy ( no matter what programme yur in, generally it isn't that much different)-

School can't be too easy, because you can't spell program correctly. Hypocritical statement. Also, there is more difficult programs, like here where I live I used to do GT (Gifted and Talented).

using tye words that start with n and f do nit make you cool, you just sound stupid-

Not everyone is wanting to sound cool. You drop a bowling ball on your foot and yell, "FUCK!" Do you immediately say, "Damn, I'm so cool for yelling fuck after dropping that ball on my foot"?

[Jean Poutine]

My unpopular opinions :

-opera can sound beautiful
-reading school textbooks for fun can be entertaining
-theater representations are more enjoyable than movies

[DerBear]

Government-issued chastity belts.

Quick question a world where there is little money and I assume such devices cost a lot to make in general terms. The ecomoy has little money as it is and they would waste it on a device most commonly used now in sub/dom sex games.

I assume you are joking when u siad this if you are not then you are one sick weirdo.

[StoppingTime]

6. All guns, including full auto fire, should be legal and only limit on gun purchasing is be 18, no mental health issues, and no criminal record


Sure, lets have crazy serial killers having full access to guns. I can't see anything wrong there. Just might as well pass them out at school if this is legal...

[Perseus]

my unpopular opinions: (I borrowed some of OP's)

1. You should have to pass a test in order to be eligible to vote.I'm against that.
4. Thugs in the ghetto have no excuse to be the way they are. It is nobody's fault but their own.It sure is easy to say that when you aren't involved in it. Come to a "ghetto" and see if there is any help for them.




Sure, lets have crazy serial killers having full access to guns. I can't see anything wrong there. Just might as well pass them out at school if this is legal...
Not really. The state I live in, Georgia, it is harder to buy a gun than a car. Not many serial killers around here with fully automatic guns, and you can purchase them.

[kenoloor]

Quick question a world where there is little money and I assume such devices cost a lot to make in general terms. The ecomoy has little money as it is and they would waste it on a device most commonly used now in sub/dom sex games.

I assume you are joking when u siad this if you are not then you are one sick weirdo.

It was a joke. I clarified this later on in the discussion. I lose faith in the human race when I see that people actually thought I could be remotely serious.

[StoppingTime]

I'm against that.
Not really. The state I live in, Georgia, it is harder to buy a gun than a car. Not many serial killers around here with fully automatic guns, and you can purchase them.

What he was saying that you didn't need to go through any background checks, unlike what you are saying. I agree with what you said about the laws in Georgia.

[Amaryllis]

Tim's already broken all of this down and I completely agree with him, but you're really tickling my balls here.

My opinions. (Not meant to offend anyone)
When you say drug users are a waste of space, mexicans should not be allowed to reproduce and school is too easy? Errr, you're kind of -asking- to be bashed.

-People who do drugs are a waste of space. They waste money and time that can be spent helping people -
Like Michael said, how about you spend time and money helping those people you consider a "waste of space"? And these people have issues they're trying to cope with like you and I. If you mean that they're a waste of space because they spend their days and money doing drugs... Huh. By that logic, people suffering from depression, those who cut, starve, binge, have mental illnesses, want to die, they're all a waste of space, too? After all, a lot of them just sit around saying how life sucks shit.

Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want moron!-
Free. Speech. Pretty self-explanatory there.

And you're saying whatever you want.

Ghetto Mexicans should not be allowed to reproduce from this point on (I come from a line of Mexicans *puro mexicano*so I m not trying to be racist)-
You're not living in the slums now, are you? They have every right to reproduce. They have the same rights as you and I. Denying them that right would be cruel and stupid. If they don't have easy access to contraception, does that mean they should never have sex? What if they were raped? What if they just want a family?

Read this and replace LEDCs with "ghetto mexicans". (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1498922&postcount=3)

Everyone should save sex for marriage, not for religious reasons, but because I think it makes your first moment so much more amazing. And wait on the first kiss till you know you have deep feelings.-
Kids get horny. Some never get married. They think they have deep feelings, whether it's actually "deep" is debatable.

Porn is a drug, and should be less accessible to youth, adults have all their rights to do what they want, but kids are clueless-
It does often say 18+ But, hey, kids are hormonal. Do you want them to end up making their own porn? Porn kind of helps ease their sexual urges, don't you think?

Anyway, people want to do what they can't do.

Schools are too easy ( no matter what programme yur in, generally it isn't that much different)-
You get 100% for everything?

using tye words that start with n and f do nit make you cool, you just sound stupid-
Using yur doesn't make you cool, either.

Again, I don't want to offend. But that's just how I think
Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want.

[Professional Russian]

We should end immigration and enforce our borders alot morer instead of like 200 people protecting the whole border and we should get rid of this fucking president

[Perseus]

What he was saying that you didn't need to go through any background checks, unlike what you are saying. I agree with what you said about the laws in Georgia.

I guess that's what I get for reading it after I wake up, haha. Didn't read it all the way.

[Amaryllis]

We should end immigration
You most likely wouldn't be here had it not been for immigration. People wouldn't be able to experience new... Experiences. Poorer people would not be given the chance to create new lives for themselves, and countries would lack diversity.

enforce our borders alot morer instead of like 200 people protecting the whole border
Most people don't enjoy standing there all day, pushing poor people (men, women, children) away and leaving them to starve, dehydrate and die in the middle of nowhere.

we should get rid of this fucking president
Because you'd obviously be the better choice.

[aperson444]

Sure, lets have crazy serial killers having full access to guns. I can't see anything wrong there. Just might as well pass them out at school if this is legal...

Gun control is stupid. Notice that serial killers generally use things like knives and handguns rather than standard weapons. Now also remember there is a very small percentage that really does wrong with weapons. Guess what? If everyone else has a gun, then can that percentage simply assume their action is going to be easy? That's not a good refutation for the gun legalization argument.

[StoppingTime]

Gun control is stupid. Notice that serial killers generally use things like knives and handguns rather than standard weapons. Now also remember there is a very small percentage that really does wrong with weapons. Guess what? If everyone else has a gun, then can that percentage simply assume their action is going to be easy? That's not a good refutation for the gun legalization argument.

But what do you think would happen if everyone had access to a gun? What would change?

[Professional Russian]

Im not saying id be better but someone that would actually do something.

[StoppingTime]

Im not saying id be better but someone that would actually do something.

Define do something? Something you want? What would an example be?

[Cybercode]

-Israel doesn't have a right to exist.

I disagree. They have every right to exist as much as the U.S. or the U.K. or any other country.


-Being overweight isn't something to be proud of, it's unhealthy and unsightly.

What about people with medical issues like me?


-Conservatives tend to be humorless and uncultured.

Not necessarily true. I know plenty of conservatives that are humored and cultured.

Soldiers don't give us freedom, nor have they defended it since WW2.

I partly disagree because A) I live in a military family and if anybody knew somebody said this, even those that died would be rolling in their graves. B) Soldiers have always defended this country, it's just what conflict they were in, but still they proudly died wearing the American flag.

Part II:

Here are my unpopular opinions

1. All drugs should be made illegal, just so those that use them can commit a slow and painful suicide. (No offense, but I think doing drugs is a bad choice. I'm personally clean and always will be.)
2. If the LGTB community wants laws against discrimination, so should Christians.
3. Abortions should be made illegal after a heartbeat is detected.
4. Guns should NOT be made totally illegal, although there should be laws on them, like tough background checks and age limit.
5. Do away with standardized tests.
6. Even though it is their freedom of speech, protests of military funerals should not be allowed seeing how the person they are protesting died for them.
7. Anybody who is an official American citizen should stand for the pledge since million of people died over 200 years to protect our country.

I'll probably think of some more later as I try to let out frustration.

Part III: To the person who neged rep me on here: so you are saying my family members are murderers? I find that disgraceful to my late members and to the country. I said that I partly agree with the "after WW2" part. Some of those wars were not justified, but my family members answered the call and proudly served in the military and took the oath to defend the constitution. So by saying they are just killing people is a disgrace to my family name. And no I'm not proud of being overweight but still, I don't have control of being overweight.

Part IV: Look you can neg rep me all you want, but I stand by my family name and I'm proud of it, regardless if you think they were "murderers". I think anybody who has served in the military is a hero, and I proudly stand for the pledge for them.

[Sugaree]

1. All drugs should be made illegal, just so those that use them can commit a slow and painful suicide. (No offense, but I think doing drugs is a bad choice. I'm personally clean and always will be.)

You do know that medicinal marijuana is helpful, right? Patients with multiple sclerosis and even cancer use it daily and it helps them with pain. Also, what a fucked up thing to say. "Slow and painful suicide"? Have you ever heard of rehab?

4. Abortions should be made illegal after a heartbeat is detected.

What about if the fetus in question is the result of a rape or incest?

7. Even though it is their freedom of speech, protests of military funerals should not be allowed seeing how the person they are protesting died for them.

So they die to protect free speech, but those who use it for protests of military funerals need to have it taken away? That's totally contradictory.

8. Anybody who is an official American citizen should stand for the pledge since million of people died over 200 years to protect our country.

I like how you put "official" before "American citizen", that's pretty funny. Also, the pledge has no place in the class room and saying it every day before lessons begin is absolutely stupid. There's nothing to gain from it except faux patriotism.

Alright, I'm tried to ignore this thread, but here I go.

1. Though I detest the actions of Israel, they do deserve to have an existence. They are human beings, but I will not treat them as that until they clean up their act.

2. Abortions should be legal in the case of incest and rape. Though I personally don't condone abortion, I fully support the right of a woman to do as she wishes.

3. We have no right to go and occupy other countries for no reason. What we have done to the Middle East is unforgivable and we should be ashamed.

4. Capitalism doesn't work. End of story.

5. Socialism is not a bad political standing. Stop acting like people who hold socialist beliefs are out to set up a new world order.

6. The Patriot Act was a mistake by the Bush Administration and should be repealed immediately.

7. I believe that not all conservatives that pollute the mainstream political scene are an accurate representation of conservatives everywhere. Same goes for liberals.

8. There is nothing wrong with having everyone on a medicare plan. However, I believe that there should be enough wiggle room, so to say, for each person according to their needs.

[Cybercode]

You do know that medicinal marijuana is helpful, right? Patients with multiple sclerosis and even cancer use it daily and it helps them with pain. Also, what a fucked up thing to say. "Slow and painful suicide"? Have you ever heard of rehab? Sorry about the "slow and painful suicide" thing, but that's my view on it.



What about if the fetus in question is the result of a rape or incest? True I forgot about that part. If it's rape and incest I agree, but I will still stand by the heartbeat thing.



So they die to protect free speech, but those who use it for protests of military funerals need to have it taken away? That's totally contradictory.

I find it contradictory that people protest against those who have died to protect their rights to protest against the very people that defended their rights ( now entering logical paradox)


I like how you put "official" before "American citizen", that's pretty funny. Also, the pledge has no place in the class room and saying it every day before lessons begin is absolutely stupid. There's nothing to gain from it except faux patriotism.

So there is no point in the pledge what so ever? There is no point in recognizing the fact that countless people died for our country? Do YOU stand for the pledge? (I will calculate the total number of military soldiers that died before WWII this Friday. In fact right now.)

[aperson444]

I disagree. They have every right to exist as much as the U.S. or the U.K. or any other country.

No. No they do not. Displacing people is not OK, especially when that land is holy to so many. Israel has absolutely no reason to exist as the status quo state. If they can strike a deal with the Palestinians and create a single state that is completely secular (or takes elements from Islam, Judaism and Christianity), I think that's fine.


1. All drugs should be made illegal, just so those that use them can commit a slow and painful suicide. (No offense, but I think doing drugs is a bad choice. I'm personally clean and always will be.)

Do you drink coffee? Who will enforce these laws? Who will stop the rage of people who want the right to do drugs? You can't oppress the people, especially when it comes to their right to play with their own mind. I deserve the right to do as I wish with my own body and mind. If I rob a bank high on PCP, charge me with armed robbery. Not the fact that I was high.

True I forgot about that part. If it's rape and incest I agree, but I will still stand by the heartbeat thing.

If a fetus has a right to live, why does a drug addict not? The fetus has no right to be alive. It's life can be taken at any whim. Not one negative consequence will occur on the Planet Earth.

I find it contradictory that people protest against those who have died to protect their rights to protest against the very people that defended their rights ( now entering logical paradox)

Not all wars were for the purpose to defend our rights. The soldier should be honored, but the American government is despicable, and in my honest opinion, I hope they get invaded and another 9/11 happens. Too many lives were taken by the Americans, they must pay.


I partly disagree because A) I live in a military family and if anybody knew somebody said this, even those that died would be rolling in their graves. B) Soldiers have always defended this country, it's just what conflict they were in, but still they proudly died wearing the American flag.


A real patriot would understand that the US government is flawed, thus some wars are unjustified. Remember the words of Jefferson and our Founding Fathers. Do not blindly follow the government. Many wars are started for selfish or geopolitical purposes.

But what do you think would happen if everyone had access to a gun? What would change?

We could decrease military funding and support small militias. That way if the people do not agree with the policies of USA, they can choose not to fight for USA or even fight against the government. Also, with increased self-defence we can deter violent/property crimes.

So there is no point in the pledge what so ever? There is no point in recognizing the fact that countless people died for our country? Do YOU stand for the pledge? (I will calculate the total number of military soldiers that died before WWII this Friday. In fact right now.)

Blind patriotism is the path to Fascism. Pledge not to your government and the traditional nation, but to your people and the spirit of your nation. Reciting the pledge blindly only ensures your slavery to a government -- that's exactly what the Founding Fathers fought against.

4. Capitalism doesn't work. End of story.

5. Socialism is not a bad political standing. Stop acting like people who hold socialist beliefs are out to set up a new world order.

Socialism and Communism are the answer. Capitalism will fail inevitably. Also Liberals are really annoying, and anyone who even attempts to call them socialist is an idiot. Likewise, anyone who calls conservatives fascists are idiots as well.


Part III: To the person who neged rep me on here: so you are saying my family members are murderers? I find that disgraceful to my late members and to the country. I said that I partly agree with the "after WW2" part. Some of those wars were not justified, but my family members answered the call and proudly served in the military and took the oath to defend the constitution. So by saying they are just killing people is a disgrace to my family name. And no I'm not proud of being overweight but still, I don't have control of being overweight.

Your family members are soldiers, and all soldiers deserve respect -- but that includes Taliban freedom fighters and the PKK. That includes the millions of Soviet soldiers who died (and the Soviets suffered FAR more than the USA) fighting against fascism. You may not agree with their ideology, but you should respect them as soldiers; as human beings.

[Sugaree]

So there is no point in the pledge what so ever? There is no point in recognizing the fact that countless people died for our country? Do YOU stand for the pledge? (I will calculate the total number of military soldiers that died before WWII this Friday. In fact right now.)

No, there is no point in saying the pledge. It's a piece of American literature, but it's not something we should recite. No, there is not always a point that people have died for our country. Some have died for the wrong reasons (see Vietnam and Korea) and are hailed as true heroes. But that doesn't mean that fighting the oppression of Nazi rule over the majority of Europe was a bad decision. No, I don't stand for the pledge because I won't pledge an allegiance to anything. It's useless, idiotic, and a bad representation for America. Most people say the pledge, but do they mean it? No way. When it comes time for bravery, they all back off and let others do the job for them. The pledge inspires false patriotism, which I find absolutely disgusting.

[Amnesiac]

1. All drugs should be made illegal, just so those that use them can commit a slow and painful suicide. (No offense, but I think doing drugs is a bad choice. I'm personally clean and always will be.)

Who are you to tell people what choices are good for them? If somebody wants to use drugs, why can't they? It's the most blatant example of a victimless crime in this society of ours, which is hell-bent on pushing its morals on everybody else.

2. If the LGTB community wants laws against discrimination, so should Christians.

I'm pretty sure society already protects Christians from discrimination, so that discrimination doesn't exist in the first place. Minorities are the ones who deserve protection from discrimination, if such protections are going to be handed out at all.

3. Abortions should be made illegal after a heartbeat is detected.

Why?

6. Even though it is their freedom of speech, protests of military funerals should not be allowed seeing how the person they are protesting died for them.

It shouldn't be within the power of government to legislate the right to protest anything. I don't care if the protesters are supporting genocide in Africa, they have a right to express their views regardless of the background of the situation.

7. Anybody who is an official American citizen should stand for the pledge since million of people died over 200 years to protect our country.

Absolutely not. The pledge is a blatant example of blind patriotism and a violation of the free speech rights of millions of students all across the country. The government should never put words in a citizen's mouth.

[StoppingTime]

1. Though I detest the actions of Israel, they do deserve to have an existence. They are human beings, but I will not treat them as that until they clean up their act.

What do you have against Israel?

[Marky]

Here are my unpopular opinions.

1. Incompetence doesnt belong in an early college highschool.
2. Hilter is a great role model (a personal role model of mine)
3. The U.S will fall soon if it continues on this path
4. Racism will always exist
5. I believe that anyone that is pregnant has the privalige to recieve an abortion if they choose to have one.
6. Humans are no better than man we still kill each other we just have fancy weapons to do it with. We still use the social statuses that animal use.

Have fun *<:P

[Sugaree]

What do you have against Israel?

http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

They are forcefully taking land from the Palestinians. The UN Partition plan in 1947 evenly divided the region between Palestine and the then budding Israel. But Israel took it a step further and decided to take more land. Whenever Israel kills a Palestinian, the US turns a blind eye; but when a Palestinian kills an Israeli? We want their fucking head on a pole.

[Perseus]

So there is no point in the pledge what so ever? There is no point in recognizing the fact that countless people died for our country? Do YOU stand for the pledge? (I will calculate the total number of military soldiers that died before WWII this Friday. In fact right now.)

What's the point in it anyway? I stand for it since I'm required to, but I don't say it. It's stupid and a waste of time.

[Cybercode]

Who are you to tell people what choices are good for them? If somebody wants to use drugs, why can't they? It's the most blatant example of a victimless crime in this society of ours, which is hell-bent on pushing its morals on everybody else.

I said that I would make it legal, but it is the person's choice, I rather abstain from drugs of any kind unless prescribed, because I know the harms it does for the body. I've been clean for a long time and I intend to keep it that way.

I'm pretty sure society already protects Christians from discrimination, so that discrimination doesn't exist in the first place. Minorities are the ones who deserve protection from discrimination, if such protections are going to be handed out at all.

Have you looked on here lately? Have you looked at my posts lately about the one girl at school going around and spewing nothing but hate for the religious. See what kind of stuff I have to put up with. I would imagine it would be no different if someone went around saying all gays are aliens or something like that.



Why?
You support the killing of a fetus that has technically gained life? I support abortions up until the heartbeat, but that is for rape cases. If it was consensual sex and the girl just got knocked up, they were responsible for having unprotected sex, they should be responsible for the consequences.



Absolutely not. The pledge is a blatant example of blind patriotism and a violation of the free speech rights of millions of students all across the country. The government should never put words in a citizen's mouth.

Millions of people died over the 200+ years of the countries existence for our freedom, the least we can do is stand for about thirty seconds and pay our respects. To some people it can be a propaganda message, or to others like me, it has a personal meaning. And I want people to find that personal meaning before not doing it at all. I want people to know the sacrifice it took to keep this country going for so long.

[StoppingTime]

[COLOR="blue"]2. Hilter is a great role model (a personal role model of mine)


I find it disturbing that someone who killed over six million people is someone you can look up to. Can you even think of how many that is?

[Jess]

2. Hilter is a great role model (a personal role model of mine)

May I ask how someone who killed millions of people makes a great role model to you?

[StoppingTime]

Whenever Israel kills a Palestinian, the US turns a blind eye; but when a Palestinian kills an Israeli? We want their fucking head on a pole.

When do Israeli's kill Palestinians unless necessary for security reasons? Do they go in and bomb Gaza?

[Cybercode]

I find it disturbing that someone who killed over six million people is someone you can look up to. Can you even think of how many that is?

May I ask how someone who killed millions of people makes a great role model to you?

I agree totally with these two. When I seen that chills went down my spine. No joke.

What's the point in it anyway? I stand for it since I'm required to, but I don't say it. It's stupid and a waste of time.

So it has no personal meaning to you what so ever. Just the point (the point I keep repeating over and over again tonight, which I guess is not working) that millions have died for this flag, for the constitution (not counting AFTER WWII if you say so). I know I would put my life on the line for freedom, but just the fact that we have a generation that doesn't care, actually against it, sickens me.

[Marky]

I dont look at the death tole at this point. He is a great rolemodel for his persuasive skills and his determination. And wether you believe it or not you benifit from the Holocoust

[Perseus]

So it has no personal meaning to you what so ever. Just the point (the point I keep repeating over and over again tonight, which I guess is not working) that millions have died for this flag, for the constitution (not counting AFTER WWII if you say so). I know I would put my life on the line for freedom, but just the fact that we have a generation that doesn't care, actually against it, sickens me.
What does reciting a poem have to do with that? If we were ever to go to war for an actual valid reason, I'd enlist. But for these stupid ass wars we're involved in in the Middle East? Fuck no.

[StoppingTime]

I dont look at the death tole at this point. He is a great rolemodel for his persuasive skills and his determination. And wether you believe it or not you benifit from the Holocoust

Tell me how I benefited, please, I'm open to insane opinions.

[Cybercode]

What does reciting a poem have to do with that?

OK i'm done stressing my fuckin point. Obviously there is no fuckin point since the generation does not give a hoot about our freedom anymore. Or the respect the hero's that defended our nation deserve. just fuckin sick. i'm moving to Canada, i hope the kids and teens there are patriotic.

[Jess]

Just because I don't say the pledge (I stand up but remain silent), doesn't mean I'm not patriotic, or don't care about our freedom..........

[Cybercode]

Just because I don't say the pledge (I stand up but remain silent), doesn't mean I'm not patriotic, or don't care about our freedom..........

There was a muslim kid in my class a few years ago, he would stand for the pledge but would not recite it, I'm OK with that, it's just that when you say it's pointless or a waste of time or stupid, that's when I get mad, because there is a point and it sure as hell not a waste of time.