Boy wants to join Girl Scouts

[Cybercode]

A 7 year old boy in Colorado does not wish to join the Boy Scouts, but instead wants to join the Girl Scouts. At first he was rejected but they eventually allowed him in. Here's the link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053852/Colorado-Girls-Scouts-change-heart-rejecting-Bobby-Montoya--BOY-wanted-join.html

What do you guys think?

Personally I have mixed opinions about this.

[StoppingTime]

I dont think it is right. There really is no point for her needing to do this. It's similar to girls playing on all boys baseball teams. I guess they want to be like that, which I'm fine with. But I don't see it fitting for her to be jointing BOYscouts.


SUPER EDIT:
Again, for whoever neg repped me for this.
This was before I knew the boy was transgender. And when I made the baseball comment, I was referring it to the opinion that it was meant to be a boy's team only.

[Dimitri]

Okay, being a BOYscout myself, emphasis on BOYscout I do not think she sould be allowed, if she wants to join the explorer group she can but BOYscouts are for BOYscouts and GIRLscouts are for GIRLscouts. I cannot make it any clearer.

[StoppingTime]

Okay, being a BOYscout myself, emphasis on BOYscout I do not think she sould be allowed, if she wants to join the explorer group she can but BOYscouts are for BOYscouts and GIRLscouts are for GIRLscouts. I cannot make it any clearer.



...Serenity (:)) a boy wants to join the GIRLscouts.

[Cybercode]

I think this is a useless thread about a useless news article.
It's kinda weird.

i think there's a use to it because i want opinions from other people.

[Dimitri]

Ohh, I am sorry, I completly miss-read that, my bad.

[trooneh]

Smooth, bud. Smooth.

I'm not sure, do the girl scouts do things like camping? It could make things a tad bit awkward if they do.

[Donkey]

I think this is a useless thread about a useless news article.
It's kinda weird.

I think this is a useless post. Please don't spam - if you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing at all.

[SosbanFach]

I don't understand how this got beyond local news...

Anyhow, what Dimitri said doesn't seem to apply so much in the UK. While Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are always all girls, Beavers and Cubs, as well as Scouts less often, are occasionally mixed, although the majority are boys. While I've never heard of a boy in Guides or similar, if he feels the need to be, I suppose he can up to a certain age (maybe 12?)

[syd1298]

errrr, i think the boy might be a perv!!!

[SosbanFach]

errrr, i think the boy might be a perv!!!

Really? He's a bloody seven year old!

[ShatteredWings]

You guys.
That "boy" is A GIRL.

She is a girl, and I'm kind of really irritated at the video's complete irrelevance for pronouns which both her mother and she clearly use.

However GirlScouts get respect. (and money, I'm definitely making a point to buy cookies now)

[Jess]

I see no problem with it...he's a boy..I mean he's a g---never mind -_- I personally see no problem with it.

[Dimitri]

You guys.
That "boy" is A GIRL.

She is a girl, and I'm kind of really irritated at the video's complete irrelevance for pronouns which both her mother and she clearly use.

However GirlScouts get respect. (and money, I'm definitely making a point to buy cookies now)
OMG, I didn't even think to look at the vid, so a girl!!!! This is pointless.

[Sage]

You know what I think? Both institutions are antiquated and the segregation between them is entirely arbitrary. Why not just have "scouts"?

[Angel Androgynous]

You guys.
That "boy" is A GIRL.

She is a girl, and I'm kind of really irritated at the video's complete irrelevance for pronouns which both her mother and she clearly use.

However GirlScouts get respect. (and money, I'm definitely making a point to buy cookies now)

^ Pretty much this! I am glad that GirlScouts allowed a transgender kid in the club! Woot! (Shows how much society has changed... we are slowly moving towards a more accepting world) Gonna buy some samosas now. C: I am proud of the kid too. She is a brave little girl. :)


You know what I think? Both institutions are antiquated and the segregation between them is entirely arbitrary. Why not just have "scouts"?
I was wondering this as well.

[StoppingTime]

You know what I think? Both institutions are antiquated and the segregation between them is entirely arbitrary. Why not just have "scouts"?

Because they target different things. I don't know about in depth scouting, but taking from basic facts, I don't think they want to tie knots and learn how to build campfires.

What is the in depth boy scouting program like?


MAJOR EDIT!!!

I didn't know this kid was transgender. I therefore think it is fine to join the girl scouts then.

[ShatteredWings]

Because they target different things. I don't know about in depth scouting, but taking from basic facts, I don't think they want to tie knots and learn how to build campfires.

What is the in depth boy scouting program like?

On that, why should they be different in the first place? why can't girls do boyscout things and learn something practical rather than be pidgenholed into arts&crafts

Actually, sage makes a fucking good point.

[Angel Androgynous]

Because they target different things. I don't know about in depth scouting, but taking from basic facts, I don't think they want to tie knots and learn how to build campfires.


Why do you think that they don't want to tie knots and build campfires?... Generalization much?

[StoppingTime]

On that, why should they be different in the first place? why can't girls do boyscout things and learn something practical rather than be pidgenholed into arts&crafts

I didn't say it should be like this. I said it is how it is.
I didn't realize the kid was transgender; so I edited my previous post.
Although, the bulk of people who go in boy/girl scouts don't want to do what the other is doing.



Why do you think that they don't want to tie knots and build campfires?... Generalization much?

I am saying the bulk. No, I haven't taken a survey on what girls would rather do. I honestly can't tell you for sure.

I was generalizing because, like I said, I haven't researched in depth scouting and what they really do.

[ShatteredWings]

I didn't say it should be like this. I said it is how it is.
I didn't realize the kid was transgender; so I edited my previous post.
Although, the bulk of people who go in boy/girl scouts don't want to do what the other is doing.

Do they not want it, or is it just never offered as a choice?

[StoppingTime]

Do they not want it, or is it just never offered as a choice?

Like I said, I haven't conducted surveys or anything. It was wrong for me to generalize.
Damn I suck at debating. :)

[Syvelocin]

Mmm, yes, with that bit of information, this is no big deal whatsoever. I don't like boy and girl scouts anyway, the segregation. There's one for boys and a one for girls. I think it should just be merged, troupes remain girl boy but same organization and same camp grounds and whatever. I was a girl scout until my first move, when I tried to start up again but it just wasn't fun with a smaller group of girls who hated me versus the girls I had been with since I was five.

If the case was that he was a boy, wanting to join girl scouts, I still wouldn't think it's a big deal. There's actually a big difference between the two, disregarding gender. I have bad associations with boy scouts, but I think that's only purely by how in some cases they're being brought up to be 'men' and do 'man things.' I'm no feminist, but that stuff makes me vomit. While girl scouts take the approach of giving girls the same opportunity, which, instead of teaching them to be 'girls' with sewing circles and cooking lessons (well, they get that too, but not "Housewife 101") they get the camping and first aid and sporting just the same, also teaching the importance of friendship, teamwork, and other values that would otherwise be heard of much less. The fondest memories of my pre-teenage years were most all from the big camping trips with my troupe at the jamboree each year.


I don't think they want to tie knots and learn how to build campfires.

I recall a lot of knot-tying, tent-pitching, fire-building in my experiences. There is a lot of arts and crafts now that you mention it though :P But I like that. Boy scouts should have swap-making! :P I love swaps. I still have all my badge things and a hat full of swaps.

[Dimitri]

Why not just have "scouts"?
They do, it is called Venturer Scouts somtimes called Explorers.

[StoppingTime]

I do agree. I really think they should merge them. Like Rith said, still keep them separate, (but have an option to be together), but offer them the same things to do.

[Jupiter]

Hmm.. So is he a transsexual?

[Angel Androgynous]

Hmm.. So is he a transsexual?

No, she can't be quite yet. :P She is transgender. She might have the surgery later on.

[Jupiter]

No, she can't be quite yet. :P She is transgender. She might have the surgery later on.

*facepalm* that's what I meant. I'm stupid. anyway, yes. she should be able to.

[Magenta]

I was in boyscouts as a kid. Honestly, they both do the same things for the most part so you might as well just blend them. While having something all-girls or all-boys can be fun, most kids just do what they want with who they want, be it boys or girls... On occasion, the girlscouts and boyscouts here got together and did activities and trips combined. It was more fun that way, in my opinion.

I see no problem with this, really.
(Sorry if my answer is vague... sort of just skimmed. This just caught my attention from personal experience being the only girl in a group of boyscouts.)

[SosbanFach]

They do, it is called Venturer Scouts somtimes called Explorers.

But that's only open to those over 14 1/2 years, at least that's how it is here. That wouldn't apply to him.

[Amaryllis]

You know what I think? Both institutions are antiquated and the segregation between them is entirely arbitrary. Why not just have "scouts"?
We don't have scouts here and I'm not sure how they were but probably because girls and guys get naked and tackle each other and shiz... Most parents aren't comfortable with having their baby girl sleep with another boy in a tent. Even if they had separate tents, parents may not be so willing.

Anyway, when you're little, you tend to be like "Eww!!! Boy cooties!!!" and "Girls r so schtupid" So when you have girlscouts and boyscouts, they tend to be more comfortable around each other. It would be interesting to see what would happen if we removed those gender divisions though. But that's going to take a while.

<------------>

As for the article, I think the boy has every right to join the girlscouts. He likes, perhaps feels and acts in a way that is typically considered feminine. If he feels comfortable around girls, he should be allowed to. I do worry for his social life, however. He will probably go through -a lot- of bullying.

So there's the question of whether you should change your son into something society accepts but in the process, create some confusion and inner battle in your child or let him do what he wants but consequently be persecuted for it?

I'd expect teenagers to be more mature though often, they are not. Young kids, however? Maybe that's expecting a bit too much. But were they not to have such terrible role models, I don't think they would be as they are.

We tend to think of everyone as you and I. Us and them. We separate ourselves from what we feel is different from us. We persecute those who appear "different" so we feel more "part of the group."

[embers]

You know what I think? Both institutions are antiquated and the segregation between them is entirely arbitrary. Why not just have "scouts"?

The type of scouts us queers in England have would suit.

[Fiction]

Imagine him joining boy scouts? I'm pretty sure he's going to fit in much better in girl scouts.

I think the difference between sex and gender needs to be more clearly defined, because people are not always the same sex as they are gender.

Gender being what you identify as, and sex being what you biologically are.

I think that gender should be the deciding factors in these type of things.

[Donkey]

I don't have many views on gender conformity... generally I don't mind it if I'm totally honest, but if that's what (s)he wants to do then so be it. If he has the psychological mindset of a girl but has a penis, I'm sure he'd still fit better in the girls group.

[Quick_Sylver]

You know what I think? Both institutions are antiquated and the segregation between them is entirely arbitrary. Why not just have "scouts"?

Sadly, I have to wait to rep you again Tim.

I didn't say it should be like this. I said it is how it is.
I didn't realize the kid was transgender; so I edited my previous post.
Although, the bulk of people who go in boy/girl scouts don't want to do what the other is doing.


I am saying the bulk. No, I haven't taken a survey on what girls would rather do. I honestly can't tell you for sure.


I was generalizing because, like I said, I haven't researched in depth scouting and what they really do.

No, actually.
Very few "gender generalizations" are true. Do most girls like arts and crafts or shopping non stop? Maybe a 1/4 of the whole population. Do most boys like hiking or reptiles? More like 1/2 of the whole population.

Do various people prefer various things? The entire population.

Does it really matter that she wants to be a girlscout? No. Why should her biological sex stop her from that? She already will be ostracized for identifying that way, so why should she go through more turmoil?


I don't have many views on gender conformity... generally I don't mind it if I'm totally honest, but if that's what she wants to do then so be it. If she has the psychological mindset of a girl but has a penis, I'm sure she'd still fit better in the girls group.

I'm sorry for editting your post like that, but misgendering someone is rather painful from personal experience, while also highly disrespectful to the person.

Oh! Someone said "I don't know how/why it made past local news" or something along those lines.

The reason it did so is because in a lot of places that entire family would be forced to move because of the hatred their child would be experiencing. Children are cruel in nature, because they're not conditioned to see that as wrong. Its as we grow that we turn into something considered "respectable individuals". Or, we're supposed to.

[Zephyr]

Above all else stands the child's happiness and feeling like they're accepted for who they are. It's wrong to deny them an atmosphere where they feel safe, comfortable and somewhere where they want to be. It's disgusting seeing some people say that it's not okay, especially when at one point in everyone's life they have faced some sort of social adversity.

In all honesty, had the person who denied her entrance to the girlscouts just talked with the mother and come up with some way to make it easy, then this wouldn't be an issue. If the kid identifies as a girl, then they're a girl and there's no reason as to why the other kids in the troupe would have to know what the contents of their underpants are.

[Donkey]

I'm sorry for editting your post like that, but misgendering someone is rather painful from personal experience, while also highly disrespectful to the person.

It's kinda up to dispute what gender pronouns mean... they came about before people were liberal enough to consider gender conformity. I use them to refer to the biological gender of someone rather than the "real" or psychological gender. It's a bit odd for me to say "she has a penis," but yeah you know what I guess I'll think about it in future

[Amaryllis]

For the sake of this, I'm just gonna call this person a he because he's anatomically male.

Why can't he wear girl clothes? Why can't he like barbies? Why can't he tie his hair? Why can't he keep it long? Why can't he join the girl scouts? Why can't men wear skirts? Why can't they like pink, rainbows and flowers? Why is it more socially acceptable for a girl to wear pants? For a girl to kick balls, play PS3s and xboxes, cuss and know how to throw a punch?

What's wrong with him doing things stereotypically female? I think it's ridiculous how some people will just hate a person because they aren't acting "manly" or "girly". Just because he dresses and acts as a girl, doesn't even mean he's gay. Even if it does, so what? Why would a straight guy be scared of being around a gay guy in fears he will make out and hit on him or something? Do men shy away from girls in fear of being hit on? Some people seem to think just cause you're gay means you like every single guy.

Where am I even going with this?

Oh yeah. Transgendered or not, it's no one's business. The girl scouts accepted him so great for him! What I am worried about though is the bullying he will have to suffer through. We can't really expect little 8 year olds to be mature enough not to. Then again, guess who they learn from.

And why are they even publicising this? Now he has no chance of hiding his penis and living a decent life. No matter where he goes, people are going to know who he is. God, this is so stupid, it's horrible.

[UnknownError]

Tbh they should just put them all together like Sage says. Stops conflicts like this.

errrr, i think the boy might be a perv!!!

http://indivision.ca/imageland/1156984.jpg

[AlexTorkin]

It should definitely be allowed. I remember when I was in elementary school, my parents forced me to join Girl Scouts to make me more 'girly'. It didn't work. I hated it and would've much preferred to be in Boy Scouts, but that wasn't allowed because I was a 'girl'. There is a huge difference between the two, anyways. Not just the gender difference, but the activities are so much different.

[DerBear]

It should definitely be allowed. I remember when I was in elementary school, my parents forced me to join Girl Scouts to make me more 'girly'. It didn't work. I hated it and would've much preferred to be in Boy Scouts, but that wasn't allowed because I was a 'girl'. There is a huge difference between the two, anyways. Not just the gender difference, but the activities are so much different.

it says your gender is male on here?

No offence I am just a little confused with that

[ShatteredWings]

Read his intro, alex is ftm

[Quick_Sylver]

It's kinda up to dispute what gender pronouns mean... they came about before people were liberal enough to consider gender conformity. I use them to refer to the biological gender of someone rather than the "real" or psychological gender. It's a bit odd for me to say "she has a penis," but yeah you know what I guess I'll think about it in future

We're not discussing their biological sex...

Gender = Mental sex.

Sex = Physical sex.

Male, Female, Intersex, Two spirited, bigendered...

Regardless of what the physical sex of the person in question, or their mental gender is, they're human.

[User Deleted]

I personally don't think they should discriminate, people should be allowed to join the scouting group of their choice. After all its a free country right? I personally even disagree with the names boy scouts and girl scouts. I'm not the person to come up with good alternative names, but I bet the two would become after a few years very gender open if they were changed. I doubt it will ever happen, but I guess that's just how things are.

---

I've heard of girls wanting to join boy scouts as well. It's no surprise a boy actually tried to go to girl scouts.

[DarkHorses]

I can see both viewpoints of the story. My natural instinct was that the boy should be allowed to join. But I read through some of the comments and came across one that brought up camping trips. It would be odd for a bunch of girl scouts to go on a camping trip when one of them was a boy, especially at such a young age. I can see a lot of parents disagreeing with this and it becoming an issue within the girl scouts. I think it was right to allow the boy to be a member of the Girl scouts, but I do think that it will probably bring up a few issues.

[HeroesAndCons]

Mweh i'd let her join. it is no shame on society, it is actually an accomplishment to society

[Rawwwrr]

Girl scouts are for Girls, Boy scouts are for boys.

That being a fact, I think if a boy truly identifies as a girl or vice versa, they should be allowed into the one of their choice.

[RoseyCadaver]

I think they should let her join.I could see some people's point of view about the whole they'll be trying to fuck when they're older but seeing the fact they're seven year olds makes it seem irrelevant(then again there are some kids out there.....lol).

I do hope she can join, because I know where I live. If someone tried to do that here(Arkansas), they'd be performing some kind of exorcism or shit -.- .Down hure in da good ol' south boys are boys and girls are girls.>.>

I remember when I was a boy scout,I liked what the boy scouts did,and the girls scouts,lucky for me we had a bunch of mums leading us (disregarding my father) :333.