Evolution vs. Intelligent Design in public schools

[mbishop94479]

A common debate, at least in the United States, is whether or not to teach both the theory of evolution and intelligent design side by side in science classes in public grade schools.

Where do you stand on this, and why?

[Perseus]

Evolution is a vital part of science. Intelligent design has nothing to do with science. Evolution explains the diversity of life. Religion class is all cool and all, but mixing it up with science is stupid and should not occur. Evolution is backed up by proof. Intelligent Design nothing but speculation. Keep it out of science, please.

[Peace God]

ID is not fucking science. And therefore should not be taught in science classes.

[Jess]

um intelligent design is not science...it shouldn't be taught in any science class...

[mbishop94479]

Ah, so much logical argument. It's been done before, and yet the argument persists. Anyone willing to take on a counterargument?

[huginnmuninn]

Ah, so much logical argument. It's been done before, and yet the argument persists. Anyone willing to take on a counterargument?

yes i will do it! ummm....ummm...ummm... God is always right herp derp and read the bible it has all the answers herp derp intelligent design makes sense if you believe and ummm... evolution is against religion and stuff

[mbishop94479]

Or the classic "evolution is just a theory, and kid need both sides to know it properly"

[Peace God]

Anyone willing to take on a counterargument?
Those damn biologists are learning too much about the human body and immune system instead of throwing their hands up and saying "god's work is too complex to understand". Now all of these people are living to be 80/90 years old instead of dying earlier like god intended. :(

[huginnmuninn]

Those damn biologists are learning too much about the human body and immune system instead of throwing their hands up and saying "god's work is too complex to understand". Now all of these people are living to be 80/90 years old instead of dying earlier like god intended. :(

damn it we should be liiving for several thousand years like methuselah if we just werent a bunch of sinners

[Jess]

:D

The Earth is only a few thousand years old. It was made in 6 days (note: sorry if I get the number wrong). Fossils are fake :P

/sarcasm

[SosbanFach]

http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114614

Some of the videos in this thread may be relevant here, particularly the first.

[Sporadica]

I see them both as theories. There is no 100% surefire evidence because there were no one there to see the universe created

I know people who believe that the earth was created by something, then evolution took off from that. I can see why they believe that.

I would prefer evolution to be taught in biology and such but I wouldn't deny someone to learn religion and creationism if it was an elective class.

[Korashk]

I see them both as theories.
You're misinformed if you think that. ID is not a theory, evolution is.

A scientific theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory) comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.

There is no 100% surefire evidence
Yes there is. Evolution is observed every day, and we've seen many species change (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html) into other species. (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html)

because there were no one there to see the universe created
Evolution has nothing to do with the origins of the universe or the origins of life.

I wouldn't deny someone to learn religion and creationism if it was an elective class.
Me either, as long as said class is a religious studies class, not a science class.

[Efflorescence]

Um...I go to a Jesuit school. Here, in our country, children are not thought ID in science, as it should be. Everyone seems to take it for granted over here that in a science class, one cannot teach concepts that are based on mere opinions instead of proof.

[Maxxie]

Um...I go to a Jesuit school. Here, in our country, children are not thought ID in science, as it should be. Everyone seems to take it for granted over here that in a science class, one cannot teach concepts that are based on mere opinions instead of proof.

This post is certainly not evidence of Intelligent Design.

(Slightly) Intelligent Trolling, perhaps.

We do not teach "Opinionated" Math, we don't teach "Opinionated" History (any more than we have the ability to - 'History is written by the victor' and whatnot...), so why should we have "Opinionated" Science?

Opinions do not run the world. It's facts. It's a bloody fact that evolution exists. It's only based on reproduction time and the viability of mutation in that reproduction time. Take viruses for example - they evolve on a constant basis, because the weaker forms of the viruses are contantly weeded out from the stronger forms, and the stronger ones proliferate more and more than the weaker ones, eventually creating a new species. This is why we have a new strain (read: species) of influenza virus every year. Viruses reproduce on such a fast timetable (measured in hours, not by twenty years), so they evolve faster. But with the evidence of early primate species, genetics, and the study of natural selection, it is certain that evolution takes place, and we are almost certain of the mechanisms of said Theory of Evolution.

[Korashk]

This post is certainly not evidence of Intelligent Design.

(Slightly) Intelligent Trolling, perhaps.

We do not teach "Opinionated" Math, we don't teach "Opinionated" History (any more than we have the ability to - 'History is written by the victor' and whatnot...), so why should we have "Opinionated" Science?

Opinions do not run the world. It's facts. It's a bloody fact that evolution exists. It's only based on reproduction time and the viability of mutation in that reproduction time. Take viruses for example - they evolve on a constant basis, because the weaker forms of the viruses are contantly weeded out from the stronger forms, and the stronger ones proliferate more and more than the weaker ones, eventually creating a new species. This is why we have a new strain (read: species) of influenza virus every year. Viruses reproduce on such a fast timetable (measured in hours, not by twenty years), so they evolve faster. But with the evidence of early primate species, genetics, and the study of natural selection, it is certain that evolution takes place, and we are almost certain of the mechanisms of said Theory of Evolution.
I think you read her post wrong.

[Maxxie]

I think you read her post wrong.

I probably did.

[Efflorescence]

This post is certainly not evidence of Intelligent Design.

(Slightly) Intelligent Trolling, perhaps.

http://www.knullen.com/gallery3/var/albums/Baby-and-its-Different-Avatar/Shocked%20Baby.jpg?m=1309546354

:eek:Trolling? Trolling my arse!! I go to a Jesuit school and it's one of the best schools in here (Malta) if one wants to choose Chemistry and Biology as A-levels. In fact, this question took me a bit by surprise because I always took it for granted that in a science class, one should teach facts that are in line with the scientific method not personal opinions. I agree perfectly with what you said afterwards.

I think you read her post wrong.

What is that supposed to mean? to myself: Ok. calm down calm down........

[Maxxie]

image (http://www.knullen.com/gallery3/var/albums/Baby-and-its-Different-Avatar/Shocked%20Baby.jpg?m=1309546354)

:eek:Trolling? Trolling my arse!! I go to a Jesuit school and it's one of the best schools in here (Malta) if one wants to choose Chemistry and Biology as A-levels. In fact, this question took me a bit by surprise because I always took it for granted that in a science class, one should teach facts that are in line with the scientific method not personal opinions. I agree perfectly with what you said afterwards.

My bad, Confusion. I read that completely wrong - that schools should teach OPINIONS (e.g, religion as scientific fact) over FACTS. Lo siento! :\

[Efflorescence]

Sorry, I mixed up everything lol....I thought that Maxxie and Korashk were both against me...Sorry I got confused...well yes.....schools should teach facts....I think we all agree here.

Schools should teach FACTS!!

[Maxxie]

Sorry, I mixed up everything lol....I thought that Maxxie and Korashk were both against me...Sorry I got confused...well yes.....schools should teach facts....I think we all agree here.

Schools should teach FACTS!!

I think that's unanimous. :D

[SosbanFach]

Agreed

This is such a great debate *Calls* "Fundamentalist Christians, step this way please!"

But yeah, save religion for RS, not science of any sort.

[Efflorescence]

Someone has just -ve repped me because of my post? WHAT THE FUCK? I'm saying that science should teach facts! Maaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!

Ok, thanks for removing it whoever he/she is!

[HaydenM]

If you are going to teach ID then you must also teach pastafarianism.

But honestly, if I was sitting in biology and my teacher said "Hello kids, today we are going to learn about how an 'intelligent designer' made everything as it is and always has been" I would stand up and walk out of class (and I am a model student).