God Hates Gays >_>

[Kuervo]

i was reading somewhere on facebook i think and there was something that caught my eye. it may have been an ad or something. But i bet most of you have seen those stupid signs that say: God hates gays: right. well i saw something that went like this:

If God hated gays then he would have never created us.

Idk but i found that to be quite true. now, i didnt post this so people could fight, i just wanted to show u that little comment i saw

[TheMatrix]

Ummm, this isn't a debate....
ROTW :arrow: TWPR

[Sage]

If God hated gays then he would have never created us.

Sure he would've. He doesn't like sin, but that exists.

[DerBear]

The concept of god creating the earth and humans is too unbeleiveable for me

[SosbanFach]

The concept of god creating the earth and humans is too unbeleiveable for me

Whereas the thought of nothing exploding seems perfectly logical? The truth is that as yet, there are no rational explanations for the beginning of the universe.

[Amnesiac]

Whereas the thought of nothing exploding seems perfectly logical? The truth is that as yet, there are no rational explanations for the beginning of the universe.

The Big Bang theory is a perfectly rational explanation of how the Universe formed. It's just that nearly everybody misinterprets it as "nothing exploding". That's not what it is.

As for the OP, God is such a skewed and vague concept that he can do anything, and be as contradictory and hypocritical as he wants in doing it. Thus is the logic of monotheistic religion.

[Sage]

Whereas the thought of nothing exploding seems perfectly logical?

Nobody believes that.

[Efflorescence]

God doesn't hate anyone. HE created us, do not heed people who say that God hates 'those people' and other bullcrap.

[Sage]

God doesn't hate anyone. HE created us, do not heed people who say that God hates 'those people' and other bullcrap.

Why not? Their theology is just as arbitrarily valid or invalid as your own. By what standards do you judge one religious sect to be bullcrap and another to be true?

[Bath]

"Hate the sin, not the sinner."
In the Christian religion, lying is just as bad as being gay. If you lie, does God hate you? No, he hates that you lied. Does God hate gay people? No, he hates that they're gay.

You're supposed to "resist" being gay, like you're supposed to resist lying, adultry, and all that good stuff.

Good thing I don't believe in God, or the Christian religion for that matter, so it all works out for me ;) I just see how they could argue against your quote.

[Efflorescence]

Why not? Their theology is just as arbitrarily valid or invalid as your own. By what standards do you judge one religious sect to be bullcrap and another to be true?

What the hell are you saying to me? Who's saying that their 'religious sect' is bullcrap? I'm saying that according to my religion, God is love and so He cannot hate anyone in my opinion.
I'm saying that the notion of God hating someone is bullcrap to me.

And another thing, hatred is a negative feeling, which normally people try to get rid of not promote. You can ask someone who feels it a lot =ME. A religious sect based on hatred...NO thanks.

[UnknownError]

I have some nutter Christain friend and she doesnt get the idea they are born gay. She was telling me her church was performing some mad voodoo shit to turn a lesbian straight a few weeks ago and I was like "lolwat".

[Amaryllis]

I don't believe in an imaginary being floating the sky that's all good who watches over his little sims every second of the day. But hey, if you do, sure. Sometimes people find comfort in believing in a higher power.

I don't see a problem with gay people. Plants produce asexually so why not?

God doesn't hate anyone. HE created us, do not heed people who say that God hates 'those people' and other bullcrap.

Some parents hate their kids.

[Tristin.]

the exciting things are always a sin to Christians ;P

[Love.Hate]

I have some nutter Christain friend and she doesnt get the idea they are born gay. She was telling me her church was performing some mad voodoo shit to turn a lesbian straight a few weeks ago and I was like "lolwat".

Things like this irritate me.

I guess everyone is entitaled to their own opinion at the end of the day.

[Efflorescence]

I don't believe in an imaginary being floating the sky that's all good who watches over his little sims every second of the day. But hey, if you do, sure. Sometimes people find comfort in believing in a higher power.

I don't see a problem with gay people. Plants produce asexually so why not?

Some parents hate their kids.

The God I believe in is not an anthropomorphic god.

[Kuervo]

I just hate the fact that we are born gay, not become. I myself am bi and I'm fine with that. I just don't like how some people can hate us for being this way cause we can't change who we are

[Vonn]

I just hate the fact that we are born gay, not become. I myself am bi and I'm fine with that. I just don't like how some people can hate us for being this way cause we can't change who we are

We can pretend to be completely straight, but that would be lying, which is also a sin. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

[Jess]

I just hate the fact that we are born gay, not become. I myself am bi and I'm fine with that. I just don't like how some people can hate us for being this way cause we can't change who we are

I agree. I absolutely loathe close-minded people that think LGBT people are disgusting and blah blah blah they are ruining America and blah blah blah God will punish them blah blah blah. every time I go read an article about LGBT, mostly gay marriage and all, I see such hateful comments. It makes me want to scream in anger and throw the haters off a cliff!

[Vonn]

I agree. I absolutely loathe close-minded people that think LGBT people are disgusting and blah blah blah they are ruining America and blah blah blah God will punish them blah blah blah. every time I go read an article about LGBT, mostly gay marriage and all, I see such hateful comments. It makes me want to scream in anger and throw the haters off a cliff!

One time my uncle was talking about how he's not too worried about gay people 'cause they would eventually die off since they can't reproduce. I was probably the only one with a big fat "...What?" look on my face.

[MalditoDia]

i was reading somewhere on facebook i think and there was something that caught my eye. it may have been an ad or something. But i bet most of you have seen those stupid signs that say: God hates gays: right. well i saw something that went like this:

If God hated gays then he would have never created us.

Idk but i found that to be quite true. now, i didnt post this so people could fight, i just wanted to show u that little comment i saw this book i just got done reading thinking straight is really godly and it helps and explains alot about god and gays.

[Tonebone88]

I don't like how people think guys choose to be gay. I don't think there is a single person in the world that would choose to be gay if they had a choice because it means being made fun of all the time, not being able to have kids as easily and generally having a harder life. If you're gay, you were born that way, no doubt about it.

[Jupiter]

he is a ever forgiving god. except when you die. so i guess... as long as you turn straight before you die, youll be fine?

[Bath]

he is a ever forgiving god. except when you die. so i guess... as long as you turn straight before you die, youll be fine?

Or you could die true to who you are and keep your dignity, eh.

[Kuervo]

Or you could die true to who you are and keep your dignity, eh.

i totally agree with you ^_^

[Jupiter]

Or you could die true to who you are and keep your dignity, eh.



good point. i have nothing wrong with homosexuality, dont get me wrong. but i wish you could be gay and christian somehow..

[Vonn]

good point. i have nothing wrong with homosexuality, dont get me wrong. but i wish you could be gay and christian somehow..

You can.

[Jupiter]

You can.

how?

[travis101]

Or you could die true to who you are and keep your dignity, eh.

but unfortunately you wont go to heaven

[Jupiter]

yeah. Genesis 19.. Sodom and Gomorrah. I hate to break it to you...

[Peace God]

but unfortunately you wont go to heaven
that's cool, there is no heaven anyway...or hell

hell is the equivalent of your parents saying something like "be a good kid or else the boogie monster will eat you"... turns out there is no boogie monster, or eternal fire pit full of red guys with hoofs and pitchforks

so...problem solved, no one is going to heaven anyway...just be yourself

[Vonn]

but unfortunately you wont go to heaven

Everything delectable is considered a sin anyways.

yeah. Genesis 19.. Sodom and Gomorrah. I hate to break it to you...

The Three Little Pigs was a much better story.

You're not breaking anything to anybody. That book is older than dust. Get with the times.

[Tall T]

god dosent exist.. he didn't create anything and he dosent hate anything. why would you believe in something imaginary and make up that it hates you. Its so stupid christianity is built to make you feel like less of a person and it really pisses me off. YOUR AWESOME
you don't need some imaginary god.

[travis101]

god dosent exist.. he didn't create anything and he dosent hate anything. why would you believe in something imaginary and make up that it hates you. Its so stupid christianity is built to make you feel like less of a person and it really pisses me off. YOUR AWESOME
you don't need some imaginary god.

well someone or something created all this.........it didnt happen by accident.......lighting hit a pool of water with nitrogen and life just appeared and every living thing just accidentally evolved from that.........come on that is ridiculous....just take how complex the human body is...........when u study anatomy it just blows my mind how there are so many complex systems in the human body.....there is no way this just happened by accident

[Vonn]

come on that is ridiculous....

And an invisible, temperamental simmer in the sky isn't?

[travis101]

And an invisible, temperamental simmer in the sky isn't?

i said someone or something.........i didnt necessarily say "an invisible, temperamental simmer in the sky"

[Amaryllis]

The God I believe in is not an anthropomorphic god.

Well now... That's the god you believe in. What makes you think he is? Because the bible said so?

[Sage]

he is a ever forgiving god. except when you die. so i guess... as long as you turn straight before you die, youll be fine?

Your god sounds really, really dumb.

[Jupiter]

Your god sounds really, really dumb.

do you believe in anything?

btw everyone, its pointless telling me my god is dumb. its like saying "my action figure is better."

[Angel Androgynous]

do you believe in anything?


You think atheists believe in "nothing?" We believe in facts... y'know... those things with evidence.

[Sugaree]

I detect some butthurt in this thread. Just everyone remember that man made God, not the other way around.

[Jupiter]

You think atheists believe in "nothing?" We believe in facts... y'know... those things with evidence.

I didn't ask if he believed in "facts." I asked him if he believed in anything. and i asked him. not you. :)

[Angel Androgynous]

I didn't ask if he believed in "facts." I asked him if he believed in anything. and i asked him. not you. :)

Oh no, I am quite aware of that... in that context, though, you make it sound as if atheists believe in nothing... which is utter bullshit. :rolleyes:

[Jupiter]

Oh no, I am quite aware of that... in that context, though, you make it sound as if atheists believe in nothing... which is utter bullshit. :rolleyes:

I never said that, though. I hate assumptions. All they are is trouble. haha

[Infidelitas]

If God created the Earth, who created God?

He can't come up from nowhere.

[Jess]

well someone or something created all this.........it didnt happen by accident.......lighting hit a pool of water with nitrogen and life just appeared and every living thing just accidentally evolved from that.........come on that is ridiculous....just take how complex the human body is...........when u study anatomy it just blows my mind how there are so many complex systems in the human body.....there is no way this just happened by accident

evolution seems more real than some being creating us...I don't believe we came from apes, but it's MORE believable than us being created from DIRT.

and who created the creator?

[Commander Thor]

And this has pretty much turned into a debate.
TWPR :arrow: ROTW

[Amaryllis]

do you believe in anything?
You didn't ask me but I'll answer anyway :D We'll believe it when we see it. Actually, no, we might be dillusional. We'll believe it when everybody sees, hear, touches god. When there is clear evidence, not unexplained happenings and books saying he's real and people saying they're prophets.

btw everyone, its pointless telling me my god is dumb. its like saying "my action figure is better."

No, it won't be saying "my action figure is better". Because action figures are real. We can easilly prove action figures exist. And if you don't think action figures are real, well, you're probably dumb ^_^

[Sage]

do you believe in anything?
I believe in ideas, not things or beings.

btw everyone, its pointless telling me my god is dumb. its like saying "my action figure is better."
No, it's more like saying "I don't play with silly toys."

[Skyhawk]

Let's see if this is going to be a thumb (iOS y0) exercise... :3

The following content is my midnight opinion, my logic might be a bit "off" but whatever.

I like to think of Atheism as a general disbelief, Athiests don't believe in any supernatural beings nor acts. Makes sense, right?
(Some being watching you <censored for virgin eyes> at night, disturbing!)

Ok, now to the OP about the "God" hates Gays page. Well that'll always exist, usually I like to torture myself and go to those websites. Fun.

I don't see a reason why sexuality matters really, we are generally the same physically, there has been no scientific conclusions towards any abnormalities physically with homosexuals, and nothing has been proven that homosexuality is a disease, mental illness/disorder nor anything abnormal.
Homosexuality exists in hundreds of species, homophobia only exists in one.

Trivia: Did you know that years ago homosexuality was considered a mental illness and was listed in the DSM criteria list thing way back when? (forgot what year it was removed)

Also, anyone is welcome to believe in what they want in my opinions as long as people down shove it down our throats and strangle us with it. Pfft.

I personally think that whoever thought of religion of a theoretical deity had some form of mental illness, like schizophrenia (brb listening to more crazy shit from my grandmother).

:3

[Sage]

I like to think of Atheism as a general disbelief, Athiests don't believe in any supernatural beings nor acts

Atheists don't believe in any gods. Naturalists don't believe in the supernatural. An atheist can still believe in ghosts or magic or reptilian aliens.

[Skyhawk]

Atheists don't believe in any gods. Naturalists don't believe in the supernatural. An atheist can still believe in ghosts or magic or reptilian aliens.

I guess, I have a habit of associating deities with supernatural beings, though I'd love to be politically incorrect and call deities artificial beings.

:3

[pageplant77]

Ok I saw this thread and clicked on it ready to write "Go back to the WBC."
But on a related note, what you saw might have been an ad for the WBC, the real life trolls.

[RoseyCadaver]

I don't believe in an imaginary being floating the sky that's all good who watches over his little sims every second of the day. But hey, if you do, sure. Sometimes people find comfort in believing in a higher power.

.

I lol'd.



The old "God hates gays"Is/was/ just an excuse to give some(not all) narrow minded Christians the right to be assholes to a minority.

I detect some butthurt in this thread. Just everyone remember that man made God, not the other way around.

Oh so true......

[Genghis Khan]

I don't know why Christians shit their pants so much when they find out they're gay. If you consider how many Christians wear clothes of more than one type of cloth, eat shellfish, make friends with unbelievers, lie, steal, say the Lord's name in vain, don't stone their unruly child to death, you'd have a good majority of today's Christians.

These, and several other Old Testament Laws (please please don't say that was the Old Testament and God's moved on) are broken by Christians on a daily basis and are just as punishable for, as being a homosexual. You pay little to no attention to all of those laws that carry the same weight and pretend God doesn't care about it, but the second you find out that rod up the ass feels pretty good you get scared? Jheez. If God has adapted to so many new things [that again, are considered as bad as homosexuality] why can't he adapt to homosexuality?

Just make whatever you want out of the faith you choose, your beliefs don't only differ according to your sect of that religion but individually too. You as an individual human being can twist and turn it the way everyone else has, and you know what, if anyone else tells you that's wrong... it's your business and no one else's.

[Jess]

I don't know why Christians shit their pants so much when they find out they're gay. If you consider how many Christians wear clothes of more than one type of cloth, eat shellfish, make friends with unbelievers, lie, steal, say the Lord's name in vain, don't stone their unruly child to death, you'd have a good majority of today's Christians.

These, and several other Old Testament Laws (please please don't say that was the Old Testament and God's moved on) are broken by Christians on a daily basis and are just as punishable for, as being a homosexual. You pay little to no attention to all of those laws that carry the same weight and pretend God doesn't care about it, but the second you find out that rod up the ass feels pretty good you get scared? Jheez. If God has adapted to so many new things [that again, are considered as bad as homosexuality] why can't he adapt to homosexuality?

Just make whatever you want out of the faith you choose, your beliefs don't only differ according to your sect of that religion but individually too. You as an individual human being can twist and turn it the way everyone else has, and you know what, if anyone else tells you that's wrong... it's your business and no one else's.

this. and women are supposed to stay silent...

[Efflorescence]

Well now... That's the god you believe in. What makes you think he is? Because the bible said so?

I believe that since God is love, HE cannot hate anyone. Now if you want to believe that God hates, and build a religious sect upon that notion, do it, but what's the fuckin point? And once I heard you say you were Wiccan......don't you have your own beliefs as a Wiccan as well?

And anyway, I'm Christian and pro-gay marriage so there are Christians who do not hate gays = ME

And as an aside: There's another point I want to add here. Why do some always assume that it is Christians who hate gays? I know atheists who despise gays, lesbians, bisexuals....so what about those, huh? Whose fault is it in this case? The Bible's fault? Anyway, I don't think this thread is about this but I wanted to say it all the same......

[CuriousO_oDude]

We can pretend to be completely straight, but that would be lying, which is also a sin. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Exactly, Crooked..
There isn't a single person on this forum who hasn't, or won't, look at someone of the same gender in a sexual way:)

So take that all you haters :lol::yeah::yes::D

[Amaryllis]

And anyway, I'm Christian and pro-gay marriage so there are Christians who do not hate gays = ME

And as an aside: There's another point I want to add here. Why do some always assume that it is Christians who hate gays? I know atheists who despise gays, lesbians, bisexuals....so what about those, huh? Whose fault is it in this case? The Bible's fault? Anyway, I don't think this thread is about this but I wanted to say it all the same......

I never said all christian hate gays. I don't think any of us have, if someone has, they either didn't mean it or didn't know what they were talking about.

And atheists aren't people who don't believe in anything. We believe in things that are real. Not that I'm saying god isn't real, he is to you. But it hasn't been proven that he is. And why is it a he?

[huginnmuninn]

this. and women are supposed to stay silent...

hallelujah...wait do you mean women arent supposed to stay silent?

most of the churches ive been to women were just as much part of the service as the men so i personally havent seen where women being forced to be silent or it being bad for them to talk but thats just an observation of the few churches ive attended.

[Jess]

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak
-- 1 Corinthians 14:34

but of course most churches don't follow it

[Perseus]

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak
-- 1 Corinthians 14:34

but of course most churches don't follow it
Churches did that until the whole women's rights thing came along in the 18 and 1900s.

[Simon.]

We can see that Homosexuality was not god's will. Does that mean it is wrong?
The bible condemns Homosexuality as an abomination? Only Sodomy is sin.
God loves all. We should not be homophobic, we should live and love together. 'Love Your Neighbor As Yourself'. We should not be bad to gay people, THIS is not the will of god. God wants you to love others around you. Just because they commit sin does not mean that God hates them, it just means they have chose to live in a way god does not agree with.

[Jess]

Churches did that until the whole women's rights thing came along in the 18 and 1900s.

ah I see

We can see that Homosexuality was not god's will. Does that mean it is wrong?
The bible condemns Homosexuality as an abomination? Only Sodomy is sin.
God loves all. We should not be homophobic, we should live and love together. 'Love Your Neighbor As Yourself'. We should not be bad to gay people, THIS is not the will of god. God wants you to love others around you. Just because they commit sin does not mean that God hates them, it just means they have chose to live in a way god does not agree with.

they did not chose to be homosexual.

and sorry if I'm wrong, but didn't God destroy a whole town of homosexuals? I thought I read that somewhere.....

[Simon.]

they did not chose to be homosexual.

and sorry if I'm wrong, but didn't God destroy a whole town of homosexuals? I thought I read that somewhere.....

But they did choose to perform Sodomy.

I think you are thinking of Sodom and Gorrah. I will look into it and edit post.

Edit: That was filthy prostitutes and dirty ways of love. Love is supposed to be special, that story was an example of evil wrong love.

[Vonn]

So let's say God exists. If he really doesn't agree with homosexuality (he can't hate us because he's a perfect being of love), then he just needs to accept that not even he can have everything he wants. The only thing being gay hurts is God's will, and seeing how he's a big perfect energy being thing, maybe he can invest some of his perfection into getting over it already.

But they did choose to perform Sodomy.

I think you are thinking of Sodom and Gorrah. I will look into it and edit post.

Edit: That was filthy prostitutes and dirty ways of love. Love is supposed to be special, that story was an example of evil wrong love.

"Evil, wrong" love?

[Simon.]

"Evil, wrong" love?

Making love without meaning, sometimes even rape. (hard to describe what I mean)

[Angel Androgynous]

Making love without meaning, sometimes even rape. (hard to describe what I mean)

"Making love" without meaning=Sex. There is nothing wrong with that.
Rape is a whole other issue.

[Simon.]

"Making love" without meaning=Sex. There is nothing wrong with that.
Rape is a whole other issue.

Premarital sex is sin in the eyes of god. Rape was what also happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Vonn]

Premarital sex is sin in the eyes of god.

Sex came before God. Why does it even matter? Just because it sometimes produces a baby, sex is suddenly holy territory?

[Simon.]

Sex came before God. Why does it even matter? Just because it sometimes produces a baby, sex is suddenly holy territory?

Everything that god created is holy territory. Nothing comes before god, god was always around but he planned when he would create earth and the universe.

[Angel Androgynous]

Everything that god created is holy territory. Nothing comes before god, god was always around but he planned when he would create earth and the universe.

But see....

You believe that...
You don't know that.

[Simon.]

But see....

You believe that...
You don't know that.

We have faith and cannot be proved wrong :)

[Jess]

um how do you know you cannot be proved wrong? Did God tell you everything he created is "holy territory"?

[Vonn]

Everything that god created is holy territory.

So all humans are holy. Even homosexuals. Right?

[Genghis Khan]

We have faith and cannot be proved wrong :)

Back to the drawing board ladies and gentlemen

[Vonn]

We have faith

Yes, you do.

and cannot be proved wrong :)

Most of the time, you can.

[Sugaree]

We have faith and cannot be proved wrong :)

Faith is not a substitution for scientifically proven facts and analysis. Back to the drawing board indeed.

[embers]

We have faith and cannot be proved wrong :)

Hinduism.

[Simon.]

Science cannot prove that Religion is wrong no more than Religion can prove that scientific theories are wrong.

“Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.” Pope John Paul II

Faith is a feeling. We can believe in god because we can feel him watching over us, keeping us right.

[embers]

Science cannot prove that Religion is wrong no more than Religion can prove that scientific theories are wrong.

This is where you lose the debate.

[Simon.]

This is where you lose the debate.

Not really. Our religion grows worldwide. Currently at 1.8 Billion people, the largest religion in the world.

[embers]

Not really. Our religion grows worldwide. Currently at 1.8 Billion people, the largest religion in the world.

That doesn't mean it's correct. Besides, I was commenting on your credibility within this debate, not Christianity's as a whole.

[Simon.]

That doesn't mean it's correct.

Can you prove it wrong?

[embers]

Can you prove it wrong?

Can you prove Hinduism wrong? Fact of the matter is, I would rather believe in a system that uses rational discourse and logic than something that uses blind faith, because with the former you can reach a conclusion to what is actually right. With blind faith, there is only unfounded belief and hope that you are right - that isn't what I want.

Besides, if you're referring to the Bible, then yes, the creation myth (as well as the creation of humans) can be proven wrong, and thus it is only sensible NOT to take other ideas presented by the book as right. For example, with the creation of humans, to believe that humans were placed here by God at a time where evolution has been proven to be fact is just moronic.

[Magus]

Can you prove it wrong?Can you prove my claim that an invisible zombie living in my bedroom wrong?

[Sugaree]

Can you prove it wrong?

Can you prove that Casey Anthony didn't murder her child? Can you prove that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole shooter in John F. Kennedy's assassination? You really don't get that you can't take everything on faith. Believing in some big man in the sky is watching over you and the reasoning behind that statement is "just because we feel it" doesn't help win converts. Just because you're part of the largest religion in the world, that doesn't mean you're right. It just means you got pretty god damn lucky.

[BaNd]

ok actually he hates the act of homosexuality didnt say he hates the ppl

[SinisterMystery]

God doesn't hate homosexuals. He hates homosexuality.
I have no god if no god can accept me for me.

[RoseyCadaver]

ok actually he hates the act of homosexuality didnt say he hates the ppl

He/She/it also hates the act of premarital hetero sex.So why can't it be fine if gay people get married,then have sex?

Besides,I may not be religious anymore,but what they taught us is that the bible was interpreted from God,it wasn't his exact word.And by all the obvious translations,it's only natural for things to be changed,or even altered. Who is to say someone has changed it to make it seem as if your God hates gays out of personal prejudice.

[Magus]

God doesn't hate homosexuals. He hates homosexuality.
I have no god if no god can accept me for me.Then what's the use of loving homosexuals?

Homosexuals have to be sexually active, like all other human beings. That's one brainsick god, if you tell me.

[salty]

God doesn't hate

[Valkyrie]

I so Lol'ed at half of these posts. I personally don't believe in a god as my religion hasn't acquired one yet (This is a real religion, I didn't make it up, It's been In my family since the beginning). I would so laugh if we were actually in a Sim game :P
Anyway I believe that the Christian "God" is something like a hippy, He made us while he was stoned lol So I guess he loves us all!
Also the "God" concept in general stinks!

[Lights]

It's really only the old testament of the Bible that shows clear disapproval of homosexuality, and as we know, most of the teachings found in the old testament are outdated and impractical in today's society.

And as the others have said to Zementh, the number of followers of a religion, small or large, does not validate it any more; it doesn't make any of the Bible's teachings any more, or less, 'correct'. Every human being is entitled to their own beliefs, and if it so happens that the estimate of 1.8 billion follow the Christian ones, then so be it.

And alike to what Jess had been saying about close-minded LGBT haters, I despise of them too. A friend of mine asked me yesterday on the school bus whether I'd like to have kids when I'm older (I'm gay), and I said yes. We then talked a little about adoption, and briefly about surrogacy, and then this boy who had been listening in pipes up "Urghh gay adoption is disgusting and wrong". I suppose I can't expect much support from a bigoted Muslim boy who thinks he's a hardman. The hate on LGBT is unjustified and shows a strong lack of maturity.

I really hate what a lot of Christianity believes in, but I refuse to let their 'God' stomp over me and make me feel guilty for falling in love. If there is a God who designed each human being, and who wanted no homosexuality, he would have set the human psychology to not even consider it. But wait, I'm about to get slammed with that whole "God gave us free will" rubbish. That line is just a counter for Christians to use when they know they have nothing valid to say in return.

[dontcare97]

I;m seeing this turn into a God vs Science kind of thing. Really, who cares? Everyone shouldn't make assumptions about the other group just because they seem stupid in your eyes. Some of the comments here seem kinda mean and offensive and they are thrown from both sides. Just because someone choices to believe in a higher power doesn't make them idiots or devote mindless beings that believe that sunshine is God's ass. Just because someone takes proven science as a method of confidence doesn't make them liars and jerks.

I watched this thing by Stephan Hawkings about how God can't exist because the universe could pop in and out of existences for no reason. His theory was flawless(it's Hawking) and made complete sense, but I still believe in God.

Everyone's God is their own and the there is no real bible. the common one, king James, is just one variation many accept as the truth but there was hundreds of thousands of bibles and testaments form all over the world. The same characters in most bibles differ exponentially. The bible is just a book to guide you and should never be taken literally.

Your faith is your own.All great religions and common human senses says being a good person is good for you and everyone else. it's a personal choice to do as you please. This debate is really becoming nasty.

Everyone needs to chill.

[Jupiter]

We can see that Homosexuality was not god's will. Does that mean it is wrong?
The bible condemns Homosexuality as an abomination? Only Sodomy is sin.
God loves all. We should not be homophobic, we should live and love together. 'Love Your Neighbor As Yourself'. We should not be bad to gay people, THIS is not the will of god. God wants you to love others around you. Just because they commit sin does not mean that God hates them, it just means they have chose to live in a way god does not agree with.


THANK YOU! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS. ALL CHRISTIANS READ. read if you want, atheists or other religions, but it doesn't apply to you. You see, as long as your thoughts aren't lustful, then you are fine. Even if someone is gay, a transsexual, straight, or a lesbian, no one is in place to judge. It's kind of the way I think. Please no one be offended by this, but this is how I feel, but I think of Christians older, and others as younger sisters or brothers. We all sin, judge, lust and other things, but Christians should know better. If the Christians could realize that we can all live together, whatever the religion of friends are, then yes, we are all good. You see, it is very simple to get into heaven, Christians. Just a few things. One.. is Matthew 7. I believe the very first verse says "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Get with it Christians..

[Jess]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Christians judge all the time. everyone judges. teachers, judges, etc.

according to the Bible, you have to believe in God to get into heaven. doesn't matter if you were generous. you have to believe in God. if you were evil and believed in God, you'll go to heaven. if you were kind and generous but did not believe in God, you went to hell

well that's what I read somewhere. sorry if I'm wrong

[Jupiter]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Christians judge all the time. everyone judges. teachers, judges, etc.

according to the Bible, you have to believe in God to get into heaven. doesn't matter if you were generous. you have to believe in God. if you were evil and believed in God, you'll go to heaven. if you were kind and generous but did not believe in God, you went to hell

well that's what I read somewhere. sorry if I'm wrong

You might be right, but what I read was that you also have to believe, like.. really believe. Believing is not "Oh, I think he's real. I think I'll just think that all day."

My thoughts daily are "Hello God. I'm glad you're in my life, you have been making many differences, and helping me with my addictions since I met you. You are real"
Then I read the Bible.

[Skyhawk]

The comments on Page 4 were hilarious.

Anyway, I've read parts of the Bible and I had noticed that there was contradictions here and there, many were indirectly pointed out already in this thread.

People have different views on the subject, people say he hates, people say he doesn't hate, yet hates this or that. Some might say, he doesn't hate, he is only love as "our creator", but he dislikes people who "choose" to act "sinful" against him.
The choosing part is referencing a couple of comments claiming that homosexuals chose to be homosexual, which is known to many to be untrue.

So, where are you getting your information everyone? The bible? Which one?

[Kuervo]

*sigh* i never meant for this to be a debate >> but look, there's a reason why religion is separated from the govt. I believe that people should believe whatever they want to believe in. instead of disputing about it, everyone needs to respect what the other believes in. even if one is totally against what the other believes in, i believe religion should not interfere with other things. science is one thing, religion is another. science is anything that it testable and exists in the natural world. religion is supernatural since it is unable to be tested if it is real or not.

Religion is not correct nor wrong. i know im being repetitive but yeah, respect each others beliefs. science, govt, religion, are different things that i think shouldnt interfere with any of us. so you guys, chill please

[mbishop94479]

All this debate is why I'm nonreligious. But debating is still entertaining. *sigh*

My views are in a series of VMs with NinjaArmy on my profile and his.

[Joe1996]

Until I have solid proof of God I will believe the Big Bang caused the universe to be created and that there is no superior being to us all.

So, in my opinion, God doesn't hate the Gays because God doesn't actually exist.

[Teenager134]

God doesn't hate Gays though it says in the bible for it to b a man and a woman he hates the sin not the person. Love the person Hate the sin.

[Bath]

I find it funny... when people scream and dedicate their lives to bashing gays, for instance, the Westboro Baptist Church.

Tell me what sense this makes. (from their perspective.)
Being gay is "a sin".
Wrath is one of the "seven deadly sins."
"Every sin is equal in God's eyes."

So... wouldn't getting mad and vengeful on them be just as bad as what they're doing? Mind you, I am bisexual myself and an atheist haha. I'm just saying, I have no right to tell other people what to believe, so if they're going to believe it... believe it.

But I just want to say to them, "stop hating and hurting when it doesn't even make sense to your own religion."

[thecanjump]

The Christian God is an asshole, he kills mankind almost completely three times I believe, encourages to kill and plunder under his name, but says to love everyone and to forgive? Wtf man? I believe in an almighty being but not this one that likes to kill then say to love, killing does not equal loving my man. I bet most American Christians haven't even read the Bible themselves. I am bisexual myself but more gay than straight. This is my opinion not yourself, have a good day. =)

[ThatScience]

I don't like how people think guys choose to be gay. I don't think there is a single person in the world that would choose to be gay if they had a choice because it means being made fun of all the time, not being able to have kids as easily and generally having a harder life. If you're gay, you were born that way, no doubt about it.

Not to contradict for the sake of contradiction but I'm straight and, if I had the choice, I would choose to be gay. Everyone already thinks that I'm gay. Some of my nicest, funniest friends are gay. I don't even want kids anyway. From what I've observed of my friends, homosexuals are more sexually liberated than straight people. So far in my life I have not met a single homophobe.
Atm, I don't see any downsides.
Plus, girls are hard to get. I already understand what makes guys tick (because I am one!)
Goddamn... Life would be so much easier!

[tHe_Jester1080]

God does not hate the gay people. He is saddened. He despises and looks down on the devil and demons thought that bring the thoughts of gayness into a man and woman's brains.

[Jess]

The Christian God is an asshole, he kills mankind almost completely three times I believe, encourages to kill and plunder under his name, but says to love everyone and to forgive? Wtf man? I believe in an almighty being but not this one that likes to kill then say to love, killing does not equal loving my man. I bet most American Christians haven't even read the Bible themselves. I am bisexual myself but more gay than straight. This is my opinion not yourself, have a good day. =)

so right. and supposedly God hates baby-killers (women that have abortions). well if you read the bible....he kills babies and children....

[PureReality]

Yeah, I will not worship a God that is falsely advertised as this one. :yeah:

Did you know that homosexuality has been here on Earth for the longest time? It just isn't put in the bible. The bible is like one huge folklore. Either the people were tripping on shrooms, or found some really good Kush. Flaming bushes, a man separating water, a man walking on water...

Truly, if this were to come out today, nobody would believe in the bible, because it's just hypocritical and crazy.


Also, more hypocrisy:

During the way old ages, shamans (witches) were using astral projection (basically exploring the dream realm) for many different things, a lot just for personal exploration and entertainment.

The saints were using astral projection as well, if not in the same way; the shamans were hung for astral projection by the saints whom were practicing the same exact thing.

Is that not hypocritical? There saints, so it's all good, right?
Sure it was hundreds of years ago, but it's not like anything has changed when it comes to Christianity's hypocritical ways. Sure, there are good Christians, who support the true message, but they are lost among the haters.

[figaro42]

Ok everything in this universe depends on something else to exist. Nothing can happen without a being causing it. The nothing is a being. To the being itself we called him God, he gave every other thing their own being, that's why we consider him to be everywhere, because there is absolutely no way that the actual nothing can exist, even the idea of nothing is impossible. So if nothing first existed then nothing could have happened to cause existance, and nothing is impossible so there you go, something caused everything.

God doesn't hate gays, We are all the same and have different things going on within our minds. But let's remember that we are also a biological species and we are given our sexuality to reproduce, by natural law.
So homosexality itself Isn't the wrong one, it is the homosexual act that can be considered as a misuse of our natural reproductive capabilities and by some religions, a sin.

I wrote this because one can't talk bad about gays anywhere, but some people feel free to insult christianity as they please, insult God, and everyone seems to be fine with it. That's pure hypocresy. RESPECT

[embers]

Ok everything in this universe depends on something else to exist. Nothing can happen without a being causing it. The nothing is a being. To the being itself we called him God, he gave every other thing their own being, that's why we consider him to be everywhere, because there is absolutely no way that the actual nothing can exist, even the idea of nothing is impossible. So if nothing first existed then nothing could have happened to cause existance, and nothing is impossible so there you go, something caused everything.

God doesn't hate gays, We are all the same and have different things going on within our minds. But let's remember that we are also a biological species and we are given our sexuality to reproduce, by natural law.
So homosexality itself Isn't the wrong one, it is the homosexual act that can be considered as a misuse of our natural reproductive capabilities and by some religions, a sin.

I wrote this because one can't talk bad about gays anywhere, but some people feel free to insult christianity as they please, insult God, and everyone seems to be fine with it. That's pure hypocresy. RESPECT

This is all speaking under the assumption that the something that caused everything didn't need a cause.

[HaydenM]

Westboro Baptist Church.

gotta love a WBC hater.

And if there is a god ( i believe there isnt ) then he has said through the bible that he hates gays.

[Jean Poutine]

God Hates Gays >_>

Sure he does.

He hates everyone.

He's a mean kid with a magnifying glass over an anthill.

[Jupiter]

hmm.. i remember when this was just like... 5 posts. anyway... he loves everyone. i guess. good bye.

[Maxxie]

This is all speaking under the assumption that the something that caused everything didn't need a cause.

It was also speaking under the assumption that a belief system that fucking derides entire groups of people can be equated to a person's entire essence of being that doesn't affect ANYONE except themselves and the people they want to be with. "Homosexuality isn't wrong, it's the homosexual act that is wrong." FUCK OFF. Have YOU ever been injured, psychologically traumatized, emotionally bullied, or disregarded as a person because for some reason you happened to like one sex organ over the other, simply because its "unnatural?"

You can FUCK OFF if your "God" tells you, through the minds and pens of MEN, to completely deny a people's human RIGHT to be a person, in and of their fucking selves.

Respect is legitimate if it's mutual.

[figaro42]

It was also speaking under the assumption that a belief system that fucking derides entire groups of people can be equated to a person's entire essence of being that doesn't affect ANYONE except themselves and the people they want to be with. "Homosexuality isn't wrong, it's the homosexual act that is wrong." FUCK OFF. Have YOU ever been injured, psychologically traumatized, emotionally bullied, or disregarded as a person because for some reason you happened to like one sex organ over the other, simply because its "unnatural?"

You can FUCK OFF if your "God" tells you, through the minds and pens of MEN, to completely deny a people's human RIGHT to be a person, in and of their fucking selves.

Respect is legitimate if it's mutual.

You're letting your trauma affect you. Try to get rid of all that bitterness. I don't disregard you nor is my intention to offend you. But many of you people are insulting and disregarding religion and I am religious. You defend your beliefs and I defend mine, but I didn't mean to make anyone feel insulted sorry if I did.

[Strength]

Whereas the thought of nothing exploding seems perfectly logical? The truth is that as yet, there are no rational explanations for the beginning of the universe.

It wasnt an explosion from "nothing
don't over simplify things just because you cannot understand them.

[Iris]

Ok everything in this universe depends on something else to exist. Nothing can happen without a being causing it. The nothing is a being.

Do you really not see the screaming contradiction here? If everything depends on something else to exist, then who created god?

I wrote this because one can't talk bad about gays anywhere, but some people feel free to insult christianity as they please, insult God, and everyone seems to be fine with it. That's pure hypocresy. RESPECT

On the contrary, people talk badly about gay people quite a lot. Do you know how many gay kids are bullied?? They are people, they can hurt. God isn't. If you believe he exists (and you believe in the bible), then you believe he doesn't have emotions like us measly humans, so insulting him really doesn't matter, does it? Your beliefs may be insulted, but you aren't. Gay people are.

[figaro42]

Do you really not see the screaming contradiction here? If everything depends on something else to exist, then who created god?



On the contrary, people talk badly about gay people quite a lot. Do you know how many gay kids are bullied?? They are people, they can hurt. God isn't. If you believe he exists (and you believe in the bible), then you believe he doesn't have emotions like us measly humans, so insulting him really doesn't matter, does it? Your beliefs may be insulted, but you aren't. Gay people are.

God is existance itself. Since we all exist, then something gave us that existance and existance exists. Had there not been anything then nothing could have caused existance. So God didn't need to be created because he would then not be God, his creator would be and so on in an infinite chain of beings giving existance to others.

Religion is a quality of mine, homosexuality is a quality of gay people. So if you insult homosexuality they feel insulted, if you insult religion then I am insulted. We are all the same, remember.

[RoseyCadaver]

God does not hate the gay people. He is saddened. He despises and looks down on the devil and demons thought that bring the thoughts of gayness into a man and woman's brains.

Are these the same demons who made these (God does not hate the gay people. He is saddened. He despises and looks down on the devil and demons thought that bring the thoughts of gayness into a man and woman's brains. Are we speaking of the same demons who make [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals) animals gay?

Why would God allow us to be gay if he didn't want us to be? Wouldn't he or she had made a lot easier in the first place making sure we couldn't be gay?

[Iris]

because he would then not be God, his creator would be and so on in an infinite chain of beings giving existance to others.

EXACTLY.

Religion is a quality of mine, homosexuality is a quality of gay people. So if you insult homosexuality they feel insulted, if you insult religion then I am insulted. We are all the same, remember.

No. you are not born religious; religion isn't innate. Sexual orientation is.The decision to be religious reflects you, but it isn't you. For example, let's say you bought a shirt that you really like, but others say that you look stupid. Are they saying you are stupid? (No.) However sexual orientation is innate, not something you control, and you are condemning them in the way people condemn others for skin color.

[figaro42]

EXACTLY.



No. you are not born religious; religion isn't innate. Sexual orientation is.The decision to be religious reflects you, but it isn't you. For example, let's say you bought a shirt that you really like, but others say that you look stupid. Are they saying you are stupid? (No.) However sexual orientation is innate, not something you control, and you are condemning them in the way people condemn others for skin color.

I am no one to say if it is innate or not. However I do know that some cases it is not a choosing, but an acquired behavior, in some cases at least. But who knows, maybe sometimes it is innate. Whatever I made my point and accomplished my duty to defend what I believe in, won't argue in here

[Perseus]

God is existance itself. Since we all exist, then something gave us that existance and existance exists. Had there not been anything then nothing could have caused existance. So God didn't need to be created because he would then not be God, his creator would be and so on in an infinite chain of beings giving existance to others. The universe is existence itself. Since we all exist, then something gave us that existence and existence exists, the universe. Had there not been anything, then nothing could have caused existence. So the universe didn't need to be created because then the universe would need a creator, thus the creator would need a creator and so and so forth.

Religion is a quality of mine, homosexuality is a quality of gay people. So if you insult homosexuality they feel insulted, if you insult religion then I am insulted. We are all the same, remember.
Religion is only a quality of man, whereas homosexuality exists and many other species? Don't believe me? Too bad (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/162620/gay_animals_truth_about_gay_animals.html). Christians do not get bullied for being Christian, except in rare instances where the minority, whether it be atheist or gay, is fed up with it and has had negative interactions with Christians or Muslims or what have you.

[TayTay]

The universe is existence itself. Since we all exist, then something gave us that existence and existence exists, the universe. Had there not been anything, then nothing could have caused existence. So the universe didn't need to be created because then the universe would need a creator, thus the creator would need a creator and so and so forth.


Religion is only a quality of man, whereas homosexuality exists and many other species? Don't believe me? Too bad (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/162620/gay_animals_truth_about_gay_animals.html). Christians do not get bullied for being Christian, except in rare instances where the minority, whether it be atheist or gay, is fed up with it and has had negative interactions with Christians or Muslims or what have you.

The creator DOES have a creator, and so does that creator, and so on, so on, so on.........

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised, it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.

[Perseus]

The creator DOES have a creator, and so does that creator, and so on, so on, so on.........lolwut. That is a paradox and does not make sense at all.

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised, it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.If it is not intended by nature, then why do other species do it? Gay couples usually take the form of a surrogate parent of abandoned children in other species besides humanity. It wouldn't make sense for everyone in a species to be gay, yes, but not everyone in a species is gay, so that argument is completely invalid. It could easily be a mutation in the genes and sense gay people do not reproduce, it will not pass on to their kids, so the only instances where it happens is when the gene mutates. Gay people usually have more estrogen, in males, or more testosterone, in females. That's definitely not in the control of the person or animal.

[Jess]

The creator DOES have a creator, and so does that creator, and so on, so on, so on.........

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised, it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.

If it is not intended by nature, then why do other species do it? Gay couples usually take the form of a surrogate parent of abandoned children in other species besides humanity. It wouldn't make sense for everyone in a species to be gay, yes, but not everyone in a species is gay, so that argument is completely invalid. It could easily be a mutation in the genes and sense gay people do not reproduce, it will not pass on to their kids, so the only instances where it happens is when the gene mutates. Gay people usually have more estrogen, in males, or more testosterone, in females. That's definitely not in the control of the person or animal.

this x10000

[Genghis Khan]

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised

Animals do not rationalise and do not have the capability to make decisions based on their individual morality, they are heavily reliant on instinct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct). So there's no choice there. Animals who have never had any physiological problems or underlying biochemical manifestations in their brain have been recorded and observed to be homosexual, this has been found in (correct me if I'm wrong) more than a thousand species? Animals are also pretty much raised in the same manner, as previously mentioned, they do not have the capability to develop their own morality, so it's safe to say they're all brought up pretty much the same way. So uh, yeah, quit talking shit man.

it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.

'It doesn't benefit us' is not an argument. If it was harmful, that would be a good point, but it isn't.

The creator DOES have a creator, and so does that creator, and so on, so on, so on.........

what the fuck man

[Maxxie]

TayTay, in case you didn't see this...

No. I was worse. And I'm fucking proud of that.

So the way you're raised determines your sexuality? Still a flaw in your argument. You can't choose the way you're raised. Homosexuality is not decided at birth, I'll give you that.

It's decided way before that.

Your genetic makeup determines your likelihood to be homosexual, as well as all your other personality traits. It INFLUENCES. No, it doesn't decide them. Homosexuality is determined by a combination of genetic, parental, cognitive, physical, hormonal, and environmental effects, and it's not your fucking fault if your factors line up and make you gay. Your genetics also determine who and what you're attracted to, in part. Straight people (giving an example that maybe you can understand) can say they like larger chicks, or brunettes, or small boobs, or a massive ba-donka-donk - why the fuck can't people like the same gender, because they're attracted to it?

Saying being gay is alright but the homosexual act is not is like saying it's okay to be diabetic but not take your insulin.

Who the FUCK do you think you are to determine WHO, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, AND FUCKING HOW someone can LOVE?

The "gift" of sex is not only for people who like the same things you do.

Oh, and...

The creator DOES have a creator, and so does that creator, and so on, so on, so on.........

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised, it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.

How can you say it doesn't benefit the human race in anyway? Right there you're saying that love has no effect on humanity (which is complete bullshit, it is the strongest emotion for ANY human being, ever). So, if we can eradicate love, we can eradicate a so-called "problem" that does not "benefit" the human race, right?

=-=-=

I LOVE boys. And you're saying I can't do that, yet you can go on loving girls however the fuck you please? Yeah. Deny me my love and I'll deny you yours.

[Efflorescence]

I believe that gays are doing nothing wrong by expressing their love. I have values and these values are based on a very simple question 'Does this cause pain to someone or not? Is this harmful or not?" And I couldn't find how being homosexual can cause pain/harm to anyone.

And allowing gays to live their life in peace and to love whoever they want can actually be beneficial. Why? Let's take this example from my country. In the past, society put a lot of pressure on gays to be 'normal'. These gays married, had children and when they couldn't stand it any longer, left home and began living with partners of the same sex. Is that right? NO...and that is why I say 'Do not spew hatred on these people and 'Let them be who they are'. I believe everyone will be much happier that way. Just my two cents.

[embers]

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised, it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.

You know what else is not naturally intended? Clothes.

Are you a nudist?

[Skyhawk]

This thread has become pretty awesome for some reason. :)

You know what else is not naturally intended? Clothes.

Are you a nudist?

Now THAT'S a real facepalm!

Also, think about what else isn't naturally intended:

-Medication (as in pills, tablets, etc)
-Guns (incluing ammo)
-McDonald's chicken nuggets in 1994 (ammonia y0)
-Prosthetic legs
-Plastic
-Genetically modified lab rats
-Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate y0)

And the list goes on...

-R

[thecanjump]

The creator DOES have a creator, and so does that creator, and so on, so on, so on.........

Homosexuality, no matter how anybody puts it, is not intended by nature. Don't believe me? For a species to keep on existing, they have to reproduce. A man and another man or a woman and another woman, can not reproduce. Therefore, it is not naturally intended. Whether it be a choice, something wrong in the brain, the way you are raised, it is not natural and does not benefit the human race in any way. No one can deny that. Case closed.

It helps not over populate (which if we used all the land is nearly impossible but we live in only certain areas because of desire or being born there and not being able to leave) Homosexuality may not "help" the human race but it surely doesn't "hurt" the human race in any way. There's enough of us to reproduce. There's a lot more to a person than their homosexuality. The smartest person in my school's senior class last year was gay, so I'm guessing he won't help the human race in any way because he is gay. Oh darn.

[Jupiter]

why is everyone picking on the christian and jewish god, the muslim god also talks about it, i believe.

[Jean Poutine]

why is everyone picking on the christian and jewish god, the muslim god also talks about it, i believe.

You know many Muslims here?

Marketing 101 : your message should be heard by the biggest number of interested people possible.

Just so happens there's plenty of Judeo-Christians here. But if it makes you happy :

Oh my God did you see in the Quran, Allah hates sodomites. So backwards! So preposterous! So <more terms here>!

[Jupiter]

oh i see how it is... -.- thanks for the clarification.

[TayTay]

Wow guys, you took that COMPLETELY the wrong way.

You guys can't agrue against the point I TRIED to convey. It is NOT naturally intended. Neither were clothes, medication, etc. but homosexuality, no matter what species, IS NOT NATURAL!!!

I'm not saying gay people don't benefit society. They do. Many gays have done great and wonderful things. I'm saying homosexuality itself doesn't benefit or hurt society in any way. Some people can argue it does benefit because it promotes equality, others can argue it hurts because it teaches an immoral thing is now moral.

I

[Jean Poutine]

Wow guys, you took that COMPLETELY the wrong way.

You guys can't agrue against the point I TRIED to convey. It is NOT naturally intended. Neither were clothes, medication, etc. but homosexuality, no matter what species, IS NOT NATURAL!!!

I'm not saying gay people don't benefit society. They do. Many gays have done great and wonderful things. I'm saying homosexuality itself doesn't benefit or hurt society in any way. Some people can argue it does benefit because it promotes equality, others can argue it hurts because it teaches an immoral thing is now moral.

I

How can it be not natural when species without higher thought functions do it without being "contaminated" with the burden of free will and all the mental aberrations going with it?

Saying it's not natural implies its man-made. I doubt penguins and ducks debate the meaning and acceptance of homosexuality, and I very much doubt repressed gay penguins rose to vindicate their rights after being "contaminated" by nasty human propaganda. If it's found in other species the only thing to say is that homosexuality exists in nature. It's natural.

immoral thing

According to who?

[Vonn]

Wow guys, you took that COMPLETELY the wrong way.

You guys can't agrue against the point I TRIED to convey. It is NOT naturally intended. Neither were clothes, medication, etc. but homosexuality, no matter what species, IS NOT NATURAL!!!

Natural: existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.

It may not have been "intended" (and it probably was, since God knows and creates everything), but it is natural; at least according to our definition.

I'm not saying gay people don't benefit society. They do. Many gays have done great and wonderful things. I'm saying homosexuality itself doesn't benefit or hurt society in any way. Some people can argue it does benefit because it promotes equality, others can argue it hurts because it teaches an immoral thing is now moral.

The only reason people think it's immoral is because of a few Bible verses. It's really annoying that an old book that has long overstayed its existence is influencing humanity, in this case, for the worst.

[Perseus]

oh i see how it is... -.- thanks for the clarification.

Our culture isn't heavily based on Islam. America and the Western world has been founded upon Judeo-Christian values. I know not a lot about Islam, but I know a lot about Christianity since I was raised on it.

[Jupiter]

Our culture isn't heavily based on Islam. America and the Western world has been founded upon Judeo-Christian values. I know not a lot about Islam, but I know a lot about Christianity since I was raised on it.

So you are trying to slam Christians? ....nice....

[Perseus]

So you are trying to slam Christians? ....nice....

What? I do not understand how you could possibly perceive anything from my post having to do with slamming Christians.

[White]

Are these the same demons who made these ( Are we speaking of the same demons who make [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals) animals gay?

Why would God allow us to be gay if he didn't want us to be? Wouldn't he or she had made a lot easier in the first place making sure we couldn't be gay?


He wants us to have free choice and pick as we please, but if we do not follow the rules set in that Oh So Holy Book 'The Bible' then we will suffer eternal damnation. He warns us about this. Can't think of the verse right at this moment.

[RoseyCadaver]

He wants us to have free choice and pick as we please, but if we do not follow the rules set in that Oh So Holy Book 'The Bible' then we will suffer eternal damnation. He warns us about this. Can't think of the verse right at this moment.

Oh please,he also tells us it's an abomination to wear mixed cottons,and that if we don't follow him,but instead another image of him,we'll be damned forever.

It's also a sin to look at women with lust,but I'm sure many people do that.

The Bibles weren't even written by God,they were inspired by him and interpreted by many people.

Answer me this,this one thing.Other then God said being gay is an evil act,what other evidence shows that homosexuality is wrong?If you can honestly answer me this,other then trying to say it's unnatural(which it's not),how is it wrong?

[DerBear]

We have faith and cannot be proved wrong :)

But you cant be proven correct all you have is a book of theroys and myths :yeah:

[Rawwwrr]

But you cant be proven correct all you have is a book of theroys and myths :yeah:

Hiiiyooooooo! :lol:

[Genghis Khan]

Wow guys, you took that COMPLETELY the wrong way.

You guys can't agrue against the point I TRIED to convey. It is NOT naturally intended. Neither were clothes, medication, etc. but homosexuality, no matter what species, IS NOT NATURAL!!!

How many times will you blabber the same implausible incoherent gibberish before you actually listen to and address what others are saying?

[Rawwwrr]

Wow guys, you took that COMPLETELY the wrong way.

You guys can't agrue against the point I TRIED to convey. It is NOT naturally intended. Neither were clothes, medication, etc. but homosexuality, no matter what species, IS NOT NATURAL!!!

I'm not saying gay people don't benefit society. They do. Many gays have done great and wonderful things. I'm saying homosexuality itself doesn't benefit or hurt society in any way. Some people can argue it does benefit because it promotes equality, others can argue it hurts because it teaches an immoral thing is now moral.

I

Here's a link for you to look through before you continue to spout ignorant nonsense.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior


What was that? Not natural? :yeah:

[Sugaree]

How many times must it be said that faith is not the proper response to scientific analysis? Faith is the barrier which blocks the world from seeing actual facts. I don't care if someone has faith, but at least look at it from the other angles presented instead of flashing a big book like it's the ultimate source of truth.

[Ihaveleftforever]

God created man and women for each other. Not for same sexes it says so in the garden of eden when god takes the rib for the girl. Then when they ate the forbidden fruit a disobeyed gods commands because they were tricked by the snake aka the devil. That is how there is sin. And no god does not hate gays he loves them just as much as everyone eles. God will hate none. He hates the sin only. It is a sin, and that is what is wrong with it. Yes everyone sins and I do alot more than I should.

[Genghis Khan]

It is a sin

Why?

[Rawwwrr]

Why?

Because the Bible says so.


You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22)
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (NKJ, Leviticus 20:13)


While I'm a Secular Humanist, you can't blame some christians for believing what they do when all they're doing is following their religious text. At best you can interpret this to mean that homosexuality is fine but homosexual sex is a sin, but there's no escaping the issue which many "Christians" attempt to do by simply pretending the passage isn't there or by simply dismissing it as if God allows that.

[Short Circuit]

IF God created Adam and Eve, why do they have belly buttons in all the images you see of them? Surely you have a button as a result of being attached to the umbilical chord? Who tied the knot and cut the cord? At what age was Adam born? If he was an infant, who fed and nurtured him?

[Genghis Khan]

Because the Bible says so.

Oh my bad, I was expecting a reason worth hearing.

[Rawwwrr]

Oh my bad, I was expecting a reason worth hearing.
You asked why some believe it, not a reasoned critique of the reasoning.


Not that Leviticus garbage again.


So I guess wearing clothes of different fabrics is a sin too?



Well it depends how much you like picking and choosing your beliefs.

[Vonn]

"Because the Bible says so" is a stupid reason, considering there are a lot of things said in the Bible that society presently ignores for very good reasons. People are picky and choosy over so many verses, but Leviticus is still accurate just because they say so.

IF God created Adam and Eve, why do they have belly buttons in all the images you see of them? Surely you have a button as a result of being attached to the umbilical chord? Who tied the knot and cut the cord? At what age was Adam born? If he was an infant, who fed and nurtured him?

Adam was created as a fully grown man and had the lifespan of a demigod.

[Iris]

Homosexual acts are a sin. But who's to say that sins are bad.

[Sugaree]

Homosexual acts are a sin. But who's to say that sins are bad.

*ahem*

Sin
noun
1. transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam.

2. any act regarded as such a transgression, especially a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle.

3. any reprehensible or regrettable action, behavior, lapse, etc.; great fault or offense: It's a sin to waste time.

The definition of sin itself is to against a known moral rule. And by that definition, going against a moral rule is wrong. Thus, according to some, homosexual acts are a sin and that sin, in itself, is bad. Is it that hard to recognize? Have you read a dictionary recently?

[embers]

Have you read a dictionary recently?

God forbid people don't read dictionaries for leisure

[Iris]

Lol.

My point was: just because some dick in the sky says it's bad, doesn't mean it actually is bad.

[Rawwwrr]

Lol.

My point was: just because some dick in the sky says it's bad, doesn't mean it actually is bad.

We're not talking about 'some dick in the sky'. We're talking about a theoretical God. If he says it's bad, then it is bad, end of story. That said he isn't real anyway.

[Vonn]

We're not talking about 'some dick in the sky'. We're talking about a theoretical God. If he says it's bad, then it is bad, end of story. That said he isn't real anyway.

Too bad humans are starting to say differently. I'm curious, though: If it ever gets to the point where homosexuality is 100% accepted, what is God going to do about it? Send everyone to hell? Stir up another flood and start again?

[Rawwwrr]

Too bad humans are starting to say differently. I'm curious, though: If it ever gets to the point where homosexuality is 100% accepted, what is God going to do about it? Send everyone to hell? Stir up another flood and start again?

Don't ask me, I'm Atheist.

[GosuBara]

He doesn't hate gay
I believe that He does love Everyone
He just does not like the sins, now
being of one gender and liking the same
gender was something that happened in
the bible, but those who indulged in that
were punished, and those events where
called sin, so the saying in the bible
translated to modern text is something
believable.

"G-d loves the sinner, but not the sin"

[Sugaree]

Too bad humans are starting to say differently. I'm curious, though: If it ever gets to the point where homosexuality is 100% accepted, what is God going to do about it? Send everyone to hell? Stir up another flood and start again?

Genesis 9:1-17

[1] And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

[2] And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

[3] Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

[4] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

[6] Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

[7] And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

[8] And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

[9] And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

[10] And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

[11] And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

[12] And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

[13] I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

[14] And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

[15] And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

[16] And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

[17] And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

tl;dr version, God says that a worldwide flood will not sabotage his creation again, promising to Noah and all his ancestors that they will multiply.

[TayTay]

Okay wow.

So. The question here doesn't seem to be 'is gay wrong or right', but 'is god real or not'. The short answer ( in my opinion ) is yes. I could go off on some biblical, religious rage. But i won't. Because that will get us no where.

If God is real ( he is in my opinion ) than what he says is law. That is how it goes. Just like atheists believe that if something is proven true, it is law. Pretty much the same.

If God isn't real, than the BIble has no credibility and man is free to do whatever he chooses, right or wrong. But it still stands there is a moral compass out there even without religion. Right or wrong stays the same.....but yeah. Haha.

So that is my view on this whole situation. If you think your right, the other person doesn't. Opinions will never change. Why fight?........it is kind of fun.....:)

[Vonn]

If God is real ( he is in my opinion ) than what he says is law. That is how it goes. Just like atheists believe that if something is proven true, it is law. Pretty much the same.

The thing is, the Bible was written by people. Thousands of years ago. According to customs that were present at their time. The very least "God" could do is update the damn thing, if it insists on sticking around.

[Angel Androgynous]

If God is real ( he is in my opinion ) than what he says is law. That is how it goes. Just like atheists believe that if something is proven true, it is law. Pretty much the same.


Wait, so you agree with how women who got raped had to marry their rapist? You agree that people that work on the Sabbath day should be stoned? And disobedient kids? Keep in mind that the verse about homosexuality and all of the rest of these verses (Except for the rapist marriage one... that's in Deuteronomy) (These types of things do not apply anywhere anymore!) are in Leviticus... :rolleyes: Why does homosexuality stick out to you so much? Are not all abominations and sins equal? You should believe that people who eat shellfish go to hell too.... (That is, if you base your morals around the bible.)

[Rawwwrr]

Wait, so you agree with how women who got raped had to marry their rapist? You agree that people that work on the Sabbath day should be stoned? And disobedient kids? Keep in mind that the verse about homosexuality and all of the rest of these verses (Except for the rapist marriage one... that's in Deuteronomy) (These types of things do not apply anywhere anymore!) are in Leviticus... :rolleyes: Why does homosexuality stick out to you so much? Are not all abominations and sins equal? You should believe that people who eat shellfish go to hell too.... (That is, if you base your morals around the bible.)

While I'm Atheist, your question is ultimately addressed to every religious person in the world. You're asking them "Why do you believe that that ultimate being that you believe exists is right?" which, in all honesty, is a stupid question. Because it's a necessity that if he believes there is such a being, the ultimate, supreme, all knowing, all powerful, all loving being, that he also believes that this supreme being is also right. You honestly cannot say "I believe that God exists, but I know better than him. I don't care what he says, I'm right." because it's a necessity to believe that God must be right. What you can do is decide on an interpretation of his word, and that is where the real arguments lie.

[Angel Androgynous]

While I'm Atheist, your question is ultimately addressed to every religious person in the world. You're asking them "Why do you believe that that ultimate being that you believe exists is right?" which, in all honesty, is a stupid question. Because it's a necessity that if he believes there is such a being, the ultimate, supreme, all knowing, all powerful, all loving being, that he also believes that this supreme being is also right. You honestly cannot say "I believe that God exists, but I know better than him. I don't care what he says, I'm right." because it's a necessity to believe that God must be right. What you can do is decide on an interpretation of his word, and that is where the real arguments lie.

Yes, but why isn't eating shellfish an abomination anymore? Why isn't owning slaves condoned anymore? All of these things were in the Leviticus along with the homosexuality verse! According to Christianity, all sins and abominations, etc. are equal in God's eyes. So, people who eat shellfish are going to hell too? :P THAT is what I would like to know.

[Vonn]

Yes, but why isn't eating shellfish an abomination anymore? Why isn't owning slaves condoned anymore? All of these things were in the Leviticus along with the homosexuality verse! According to Christianity, all sins and abominations, etc. are equal in God's eyes. So, people who eat shellfish are going to hell too? :P THAT is what I would like to know.

If eating shellfish really is still worthy of a ticket to hell these days, then heaven sucks. Shellfish is the shit.

People are allowed to pick which rules to follow and which rules to ignore; whatever is most convenient for them. That way they can do whatever they want and condemn others as they please and still be eligible for heaven. Whee, life is easy~

[Korashk]

We're not talking about 'some dick in the sky'. We're talking about a theoretical God. If he says it's bad, then it is bad, end of story.
No it doesn't, a theoretical god's justification for what's wrong and right is no more justified than anybody else claiming a system of objective morality. That is to say, not justified in the slightest.

[Rawwwrr]

No it doesn't, a theoretical god's justification for what's wrong and right is no more justified than anybody else claiming a system of objective morality. That is to say, not justified in the slightest.

If he's real, then God doesn't need to justify himself. He's God. We're petty humans. He is infinitely superior to us, and seeing as it's impossible for him to be wrong, what he says goes.


I'm not even theistic and I know this, so please stop being deliberately obtuse.

[Vonn]

If he's real, then God doesn't need to justify himself.

The key word being "if." It's annoying that a being whose existence is questionable at best has so much influence over most of the world.

He's God. We're petty humans.

Humans have done some pretty impressive things. If you compare anything to God and his magic makin' standards, of course everything's going to be petty.

He is infinitely superior to us, and seeing as it's impossible for him to be wrong, what he says goes.

The game maker does get to decide the rules. However, it would be nice if he could clarify for us if he's the Angry Jealous God or the Loving Forgiving God.

[Rawwwrr]

The key word being "if." It's annoying that a being whose existence is questionable at best has so much influence over most of the world.

I agree, I'm arguing from a totally theoretical standpoint. He's attacking Christianity on an invalid point. I'm all for attacking it on Valid points. I agree that it's annoying, but he's trying to argue against Christanity and so I'm simply explaining why one would believe what one does.



Humans have done some pretty impressive things. If you compare anything to God and his magic makin' standards, of course everything's going to be petty.
The point being that he is the ultimate being. He is God. If you believe he exists then you must believe that you are answerable to the morals he sets, seeing as it is a given that if such a God exists that he cannot be wrong.


The game maker does get to decide the rules. It would be nice if he could clarify for us if he's the Angry Jealous God or the Loving Forgiving God.


I agree, however it really depends which part of the bible you believe in. The vast majority of Christians don't believe The Old Testament is the part you should believe in. In The Old Testament, God is portrayed as a very angry, very vain, very vengeful psychopath. In The New Testament, the section of the Bible the vast majority of Christians follow, then we see a relatively loving forgiving God (only in comparison with the first bit, there's still a lot of disgusting stuff such as homophobia etc.). It'd be nice if God actually told us why we should believe in him too, rather than expecting us to just read a book and then place our lives in his hands...

[TayTay]

Wow. You guys took my post WAY out of context, but whatever.

If you knew what you were talking about, you would realize that the Bible has been updated ( at least to some degree ). The Book of Mormon expands on the Bible's ideas and explains them a bit. Doctrine and Covenants are modern revelations formulated for the modern generation specifically. The Joseph Smith Translation and Pearl of Great Price are the correct translations of the Bible. It's been updated and improved. It still holds about the same truth.

I also want to explain this. God doesn't hate gays. That's like saying he hates people for eating shellfish. He doesn't hate anybody. He is sometimes disappointed or a bit angry, but he loves everyone unconditionally. And the only way to go to Outer Darkness(Hell, Eternal Damnation, etc.) is to murder (i think, maybe not) or deny his existence after meeting him face to face and talking with him. Every other sin can be forgiven. He is a merciful God. Even if you don't believe in him, he still loves you and wants the best for you. Whether you are gay or not, he loves you.

And the reason he wants us to believe in him is because that is how we earn eternal paradise. He is testing us to see how we do on Earth. We have to choose our own paths and decide how to react to what we are given. He wants the best for us and loves us.

[Angel Androgynous]

Wow. You guys took my post WAY out of context, but whatever.

If you knew what you were talking about, you would realize that the Bible has been updated ( at least to some degree ). The Book of Mormon expands on the Bible's ideas and explains them a bit. Doctrine and Covenants are modern revelations formulated for the modern generation specifically. The Joseph Smith Translation and Pearl of Great Price are the correct translations of the Bible. It's been updated and improved. It still holds about the same truth.



The only problem is... there are thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations... and each one of them has the "only truth and correct idea and blah blah blah."

Also, did God change his mind? What do you mean updated and improved? Does that mean that those supposed historical events did not happen, or that they happened differently? Why did God make the bible "wrong" in the first place? Why did he need to update it? Does that mean that he is imperfect? Oh my...:eek:

Also, that doesn't change the fact that at one point your God condoned slavery, stoning, genocide, and stupid rules...

[Jupiter]

Guys, please stop hating on Taylor. Seriously.
You should believe that people who eat shellfish go to hell too.... (That is, if you base your morals around the bible.)

That is in the Old Testament. That's for Jews.

[Vonn]

The only problem is... there are thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations... and each one of them has the "only truth and correct idea and blah blah blah."

This is another thing that's really annoying. There are so many viewpoints for Christianity that nobody can really know which way to go. Unless all of it is right and it's perfectly acceptable to follow any one of the billion different branches. How is the way one family follows the Bible any more right than another family who interprets it differently?

[Angel Androgynous]

Guys, please stop hating on Taylor. Seriously.


That is in the Old Testament. That's for Jews.

For one thing, we aren't "hating" on Taylor, we are debating with Taylor.
Second, honey, the Old testament, is taught in most churches, AND it is most of YOUR holy book! Are you saying that the ten commandments don't count? The Adam and Eve story? The six days? Moses? All those things don't count?...

This is another thing that's really annoying. There are so many viewpoints for Christianity that nobody can really know which way to go. Unless all of it is right and it's perfectly acceptable to follow any one of the billion different branches. How is the way one family follows the Bible any more right than another family who interprets it differently?
Also, the "you are misinterpreting the bible" argument! It's like: Well so are most of the other Christian denominations then, eh? Where is this... ONE truth? Yours? Oh... well that's what everyone else thinks! :D Give me a reason why YOUR denomination is correct...

[kenoloor]

Guys, please stop hating on Taylor. Seriously.


That is in the Old Testament. That's for Jews.

Laws forbidding homosexuality are in the Old Testament as well. So, since Christians apparently don't follow their Old Testament, this thread shouldn't even exist.

[Jupiter]

Nope. God hates sin. God does not change. He said it was wrong. BUUUUUTTTTTTTT Jesus was killed just so we can sin. And then it'll be better.

[Angel Androgynous]

Nope. God hates sin. God does not change. He said it was wrong. BUUUUUTTTTTTTT Jesus was killed just so we can sin. And then it'll be better.

What was the point of Jesus' sacrifice anyway? If a person murders someone, do we punish someone else and let that person go? The fact that an innocent person was killed, so that our punishment can be nullified, just kills the meaning of justice. Punishing someone for a crime they didn't commit is CLEARLY unjust.

Also, Jesus died KNOWING that he would come back to life... what did he give up? And Jesus then resurrected himself, so nothing was sacrificed in the first place!

Also, some denominations believe that Jesus WAS God... so... God sacrificed himself, to himself, to appease himself...? Lolwaht.

Was the sacrifice even necessary? Instead of doing all of that, couldn't he have chosen to just forgive us all? He's GOD! What exactly is stopping him? If he accepts punishment without guilt... why not accept guilt without punishment? What's the problem with forgiving us without insisting that someone be sacrificed in the process?

[kenoloor]

Was the sacrifice even necessary? Instead of doing all of that, couldn't he have chosen to just forgive us all? He's GOD! What exactly is stopping him? If he accepts punishment without guilt... why not accept guilt without punishment? What's the problem with forgiving us without insisting that someone be sacrificed in the process?

God always seemed to have a flair for the dramatic.

[Rawwwrr]

Second, honey, the Old testament, is taught in most churches, AND it is most of YOUR holy book! Are you saying that the ten commandments don't count? The Adam and Eve story? The six days? Moses? All those things don't count?...

You clearly know very little about Christianity. The Old Testament is taught in very few if any Christian churches, you've obviously never been to one otherwise you'd know this. They often read stories and allegories, sure, but do they take the words as command and fact or consider it the most important part of the Bible? No! Most modern Christians (who aren't extreme Conservatives and/or Evangelicals) consider the New Testament the more applicable, important part of the Bible. Hell, you'd know this by a quick google search. Most Christians consider it a preparation for the New Testament, a draft if you will.


And while the Ten Commandments is still considered true, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any but the most extreme of Christians who actually believe the world was created in six days. Most believe that Moses was one of God's greatest prophets, but that doesn't mean that they believe all the stories in the Old Testament literally.


Honestly I think you're arguing out of your depth. The very fact that you didn't know that The New Testament is the important half for Christians shows a sincere lack of understanding of the fundamentals of Christianity.

What was the point of Jesus' sacrifice anyway? If a person murders someone, do we punish someone else and let that person go? The fact that an innocent person was killed, so that our punishment can be nullified, just kills the meaning of justice. Punishing someone for a crime they didn't commit is CLEARLY unjust.


I sort of agree with you on this point. It seems odd to me that Jesus 'sacrified himself for our sins'. There's a curious doublestandard with Christians here, or more appropritately it's more of a severe cognitive dissonance. They both believe that we have been forgiven for our sins by Jesus' sacrifice, but also that we may still sin and therefore go to hell. I find it hard to understand how they can believe such a thing.


Also, Jesus died KNOWING that he would come back to life... what did he give up? And Jesus then resurrected himself, so nothing was sacrificed in the first place!
We don't know if Jesus knew he was going to come back to life or not. It was God that supposedly resurrected him, and while it's sort of true that 'nothing was sacrified in the first place', I think it's more correct to say that the act of sacrificing himself is what is important, not the end result of him being dead and in the ground!

Also, some denominations believe that Jesus WAS God... so... God sacrificed himself, to himself, to appease himself...? Lolwaht.



You state that "SOME denominations" as if these somehow represent all of Christianity, which is not true. There is no 100% agreed upon interpretation of the Bible and these events, so while you may disagree with those who believe this particular thing, this doesn't necessarily reflect upon Christianity as a whole.



Was the sacrifice even necessary? Instead of doing all of that, couldn't he have chosen to just forgive us all? He's GOD! What exactly is stopping him? If he accepts punishment without guilt... why not accept guilt without punishment? What's the problem with forgiving us without insisting that someone be sacrificed in the process?



I agree with you here. It seems somewhat unnecessary to sacrifice Jesus if God already knew what he was going to do. There's a lot of logical inconsistencies with the idea of an All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Loving god and the actions he performs.

[Angel Androgynous]

You clearly know very little about Christianity. The Old Testament is taught in very few if any Christian churches, you've obviously never been to one otherwise you'd know this. They often read stories and allegories, sure, but do they take the words as command and fact or consider it the most important part of the Bible? No! Most modern Christians (who aren't extreme Conservatives and/or Evangelicals) consider the New Testament the more applicable, important part of the Bible. Hell, you'd know this by a quick google search. Most Christians consider it a preparation for the New Testament, a draft if you will.


And while the Ten Commandments is still considered true, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any but the most extreme of Christians who actually believe the world was created in six days. Most believe that Moses was one of God's greatest prophets, but that doesn't mean that they believe all the stories in the Old Testament literally.


Honestly I think you're arguing out of your depth. The very fact that you didn't know that The New Testament is the important half for Christians shows a sincere lack of understanding of the fundamentals of Christianity.


Oh, trust me, that is not so (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjp4A6jBWzo&feature=player_embedded). :P

The New Testament gives two basic answers to this question: Yes, and no. Some verses indicate continuity, and others indicate change. Some verses maintain the validity of the law; others describe it as having been superseded by Christ.
Some (http://www.gci.org/law/otlaws) of the old testament still applies to Christians.

Also, I know that SOME denominations don't apply to Christianity as a whole... but every single one of them believes that they are correct. :P

[Rawwwrr]

Oh, trust me, that is not so (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjp4A6jBWzo&feature=player_embedded). :P

Those sort of groups are not mainstream in the slightest. I said you'd be hardpressed, I never said they didn't exist. There's always groups like that and the WBC who will exist, you get extremists in any groups.


Some (http://www.gci.org/law/otlaws) of the old testament still applies to Christians.


I already acknowledged this. They believe some parts but not others but believe for the most part that the New Testament is the more relevant section of the Bible. For instance they believe in the Ten Commandments but they don't believe the Six Days theory has any relevance. And anyway, it's their religion, let's cut them a little slack and allow them to choose their own interpretations! :)


Also, I know that SOME denominations don't apply to Christianity as a whole... but every single one of them believes that they are correct. :P



And that is what i find most irritating about religious extremists. They claim to know their religion is the correct and true one, yet others believe their religion is true as well. Of course you'll get Religious Pluralists and Inclusivists but that's another story..

[Vonn]

I already acknowledged this. They believe some parts but not others but believe for the most part that the New Testament is the more relevant section of the Bible. For instance they believe in the Ten Commandments but they don't believe the Six Days theory has any relevance. And anyway, it's their religion, let's cut them a little slack and allow them to choose their own interpretations! :)

It would be nice if (some) said interpretations didn't negatively affect (some) people's rights.

Also,

God hates sin. God does not change.

Humans change. If God doesn't want to send the majority of his children to hell (I'm starting to imagine Satan forming an army of totally bitchin' demons and damned souls, biding his time), he should learn to change, too.

[Rawwwrr]

It would be nice if (some) said interpretations didn't negatively affect (some) people's rights.

I agree..?

Humans change. If God doesn't want to send the majority of his children to hell (I'm starting to imagine Satan forming an army of totally bitchin' demons and damned souls, biding his time), he should learn to change, too.


Change implies that God was wrong in the first place, which is theoretically impossible.

[RoseyCadaver]

I was watching this extremely interesting documentary on the bible,and its translations and possible edits.There are many theories on it,like one is that the bible said a man can do things with another man,as long as he isn't all ready married to a women.

Others believe it is possible from the population.There population was starting to dwindle,so to make sure they had enough people ,they require you to stay with a women.This one can also relate to masturbation,in that instead of spilling your "seed" on the ground,make use to it and make the population rise.

Here is a link on mis-translation and the whole married men being gay. http://forums.canadiancontent.net/christian-discussion/84710-homosexuality-not-sin.html

[Jupiter]

Also, Jesus died KNOWING that he would come back to life... what did he give up? And Jesus then resurrected himself, so nothing was sacrificed in the first place!
?

So Jesus died without feeling rusty nail through his feet, hands and legs? Jesus never was reluctant for this.

[Angel Androgynous]

So Jesus died without feeling rusty nail through his feet, hands and legs? Jesus never was reluctant for this.

Did you read my whole post? :rolleyes:

[Jupiter]

Did you read my whole post? :rolleyes:


Uhh... Ya?

[Angel Androgynous]

Uhh... Ya?

To be a sacrifice, you stay dead. ._. That's the point of sacrifice. Also, you addressed the stupidest point I made. *sadface* :(

[Vonn]

Change implies that God was wrong in the first place, which is theoretically impossible.

Change doesn't always involve going from wrong to right.

[Jupiter]

To be a sacrifice, you stay dead. ._. That's the point of sacrifice. Also, you addressed the stupidest point I made. *sadface* :(

To be honest, that's the only one I really wanted to take an issue with. Otherwise, I wouldn't really participate in this much, unless people made a dumb point, that I really didn't like or if someone was getting attacked.

[Rawwwrr]

To be a sacrifice, you stay dead. ._. That's the point of sacrifice. Also, you addressed the stupidest point I made. *sadface* :(

That's not entirely true. Jesus' sacrifice was more symbolic than practical. It was the act of giving himself up so selflessly and courageously that apparently freed us from sin, not the fact that he died.

[xCreaturexx]

Please, it also says that we shoudlnt eat clams.. there are so many things we shouldnt do, but society picks and chooses what they want. They need something to go against. It is human nature

[DanielD210]

I am with Travis! Everything is too complex for it to be accident! I believe in God and I know for a FACT God hates the SIN not the sinner! God loves gays just not their sins! and thats all am saying! I do not agree with being gay however I have friends who are gay and I love them like family! =)

[Commander Thor]

I am with Travis! Everything is too complex for it to be accident! I believe in God and I know for a FACT God hates the SIN not the sinner! God loves gays just not their sins! and thats all am saying! I do not agree with being gay however I have friends who are gay and I love them like family! =)

This is from last November.
Try to watch the dates.

:locked: