Christianity and Homosexuality: let's solve this

[ExhibitG]

i am curious. in fact, very curious. i have a sexual attraction to guys, but little to no emotional attraction. i have a large emotional attraction to girls, and a smaller (but still there) sexual attraction to them. i don't declare myself bisexual because i've never had a crush on a guy, and that's an obvious necessity to being bisexual.

i am Christian. in fact, very Christian. and i notice that there are a bunch of disputes on here about Christianity and whether or not it supports homosexuality. i'd like to give aid to those in a sticky situation over this to make people feel better. the following is my opinion, though well-researched and thought out.

believe it or not, but God never says anything about denying homosexuallity. in fact, most of the quotes come from Leviticus. like this 20:13 -

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Leviticus is in the Old Testament, which therefore is not a preaching of God, but preachings by people in that time period. if we were to follow this, we would have to follow other things that nobody does today. Leviticus 19:27 says no one can trim their beard. Leviticus 19:28 says no one can get tattoos. 1 Timothy 2:9 says women can't wear jewelry.

these ramblings go on and on, and while i fully believe in the Bible, i realize that many of these teachings were written to suit that time period. things in the Bible such as this were documented back then, and do not apply to our way of life now. obviously people that wear jewelry or get tattoos are not going to hell. neither are homosexuals.

are you bisexual/gay/curious and worried about how your religion accepts you? if so, did this post give you peace of mind?

[AltoVaughn]

I respect the message you're trying to make, and trust me people have made it. I still have to say I have negative views of religion in general so I think it would be useless to post my extremely biased opinions.

[Syvelocin]

Why do you (not referring exactly to the OP, just to Christians in general) have to live with a religion that doesn't accept you? Religion is your own perception of how the world works. Make your religion accept you. You may believe that your God is different than described. So he is. It's simple. Why believe in a God that doesn't accept you? Believe in a God that is the God you believe exists. Even if Christianity is the correct religion, God didn't write the bible. Just saying.

[ExhibitG]

Why do you (not referring exactly to the OP, just to Christians in general) have to live with a religion that doesn't accept you? Religion is your own perception of how the world works. Make your religion accept you. You may believe that your God is different than described. So he is. It's simple. Why believe in a God that doesn't accept you? Believe in a God that is the God you believe exists. Even if Christianity is the correct religion, God didn't write the bible. Just saying.

love it.

[User Deleted]

Why do you (not referring exactly to the OP, just to Christians in general) have to live with a religion that doesn't accept you? Religion is your own perception of how the world works. Make your religion accept you. You may believe that your God is different than described. So he is. It's simple. Why believe in a God that doesn't accept you? Believe in a God that is the God you believe exists. Even if Christianity is the correct religion, God didn't write the bible. Just saying.

Although I agree I am sure some people would basically call that making up a religion. Which in the view of many would be at best mythology. Think about it... one has faith in (such and such religion) so they have full faith in it and believe what they do is wrong because they have faith that their scripture is true. Faith is the bread and butter of religion. Remove it and we would all be atheists, individuals, or slaves to priests.

[ExhibitG]

Although I agree I am sure some people would basically call that making up a religion. Which in the view of many would be at best mythology. Think about it... one has faith in (such and such religion) so they have full faith in it and believe what they do is wrong because they have faith that their scripture is true. Faith is the bread and butter of religion. Remove it and we would all be atheists, individuals, or slaves to priests.

i have faith in God, but i acknowledge that the Bible was written according to people's beliefs back then, not now. and we should believe either ALL of it or NONE of it, instead of just SOME of it like Christianity does today.

[Syvelocin]

Although I agree I am sure some people would basically call that making up a religion. Which in the view of many would be at best mythology. Think about it... one has faith in (such and such religion) so they have full faith in it and believe what they do is wrong because they have faith that their scripture is true. Faith is the bread and butter of religion. Remove it and we would all be atheists, individuals, or slaves to priests.

All religion is made up. I know many will dispute that, but it's true. See, everyone seems to think that you have to choose a religion. But just like you can have moral beliefs, you can have religious beliefs. There are more explanations of how the world works than just the religions in existence right now. My psychologist believes in reincarnation, in God as an energy, in the collective subconscious. That's her religion. She decided for herself what her beliefs were instead of following a template. You don't have to go by the book you know. Religion is a type of mythology, whether people like it or not. In the future, many of our current-day religions will just be that, mythology we will be taught in textbooks just like Greek Gods.

[User Deleted]

i have faith in God, but i acknowledge that the Bible was written according to people's beliefs back then, not now. and we should believe either ALL of it or NONE of it, instead of just SOME of it like Christianity does today.

But many words in the bible were warped after many translations and fewer occasions selfish pastors altered the scripture. Sorry, but its raining cold hard facts.


All religion is made up. I know many will dispute that, but it's true. See, everyone seems to think that you have to choose a religion. But just like you can have moral beliefs, you can have religious beliefs. There are more explanations of how the world works than just the religions in existence right now. My psychologist believes in reincarnation, in God as an energy, in the collective subconscious. That's her religion. She decided for herself what her beliefs were instead of following a template. You don't have to go by the book you know.

I would ask why would we have religion but I know it all too well. *Sigh* Its convenient to be able to cool off by lying to yourself every now and then.

[judahtics]

well here's the deal. in the old testament, it actually states man lying with man is unnatural. in the new testament, it states homosexuality is bad and leads to sin. so your argument of the old testament doesn't count anymore, really is void, because it goes into further discussion on this subject in the new testament. also, you mentioned God didn't write the Bible, correct, he didn't physically. but it says all scripture is God breathed and inspired, meaning, it's not just the words of men, but the very words God wanted written through the hands on men.

something to think about.

i hope you find clarity in your search.

[Syvelocin]

Okay. We can't be picky here. I hate it when Christians go off about believing in what the bible says when they are just as selective as the liberal Christians are. There are tons of things the bible says that the Christians who believe that God thinks homosexuality is incorrect like to overlook. Christians these days are partial Christians if we go about religion in this manner. Your typical person actually acts more like a Satanist in morals than a Christian, but preaches that the bible is law. Not saying that all Christians are like this, but a lot of modern-day Christians are so hypocritical.

[ExhibitG]

well here's the deal. in the old testament, it actually states man lying with man is unnatural. in the new testament, it states homosexuality is bad and leads to sin. so your argument of the old testament doesn't count anymore, really is void, because it goes into further discussion on this subject in the new testament. also, you mentioned God didn't write the Bible, correct, he didn't physically. but it says all scripture is God breathed and inspired, meaning, it's not just the words of men, but the very words God wanted written through the hands on men.

something to think about.

i hope you find clarity in your search.

how does any man know the words God wants written?

[judahtics]

well to a "true" christian, the Bible is the law of the their life. or you can look at it in that manner at least. they have chosen to allow this to guide them and show them how to live. no one forced this, it was completely by choice.

how does any man know the words God wants written?

2 timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

there is the verse.

Please don't double post; instead edit your first post. I've merged both of your posts together. -Jon/Donkey

[User Deleted]

Okay. We can't be picky here. I hate it when Christians go off about believing in what the bible says when they are just as selective as the liberal Christians are. There are tons of things the bible says that the Christians who believe that God thinks homosexuality is incorrect like to overlook. Christians these days are partial Christians if we go about religion in this manner. Your typical person actually acts more like a Satanist in morals than a Christian, but preaches that the bible is law. Not saying that all Christians are like this, but a lot of modern-day Christians are so hypocritical.

Well I know you said a lot not all but there are two extremes. (I am not posting the in-betweens because the above just covered it for the most part...)

There is the one I am:

I don't preach it, unless someone asks me. I don't broadcast my beliefs. I don't believe a lot of the bibles moral limits so I don't talk about them or go by them. Some are right, but they are typically so obvious there is little reason to preach it. About as atheist as a believer in Christianity can be.

Then there is the ultra strong believer:

Lives by all moral limits of the bible whenever possible. Belies every word in the bible literally in most scenarios I have seen. They often introduce to others Christianity and preach the word of it.

The reason I don't believe strongly...

for correction

I honestly loled, what happens when "ooh I think this is bad" *scribble scribble write write* "Look at my pretty 'corrections!'"

[Syvelocin]

I know I'll never understand, but why do Christians think of the bible as higher than laws themselves? I never could grasp that. I think of my own texts as merely a suggestion. It says loads of things that I truly believe in but I don't use it as an encyclopaedia claiming that because it is stated there than it is fact. Faith and fact are quite separate. But anything written in the bible has to be fact now, because my mum and pastor told me so. "But the bible says..." Now, if the bible said to jump off a cliff...

[judahtics]

I honestly loled, what happens when "ooh I think this is bad" *scribble scribble write write* "Look at my pretty 'corrections!'"

you are aware it's talking about things that go against the Bible correct?

[User Deleted]

"But the bible says..." Now, if the bible said to jump off a cliff...

I bet at least 100,000 people would if the bible said "on 2012 all Christians need to 'take a leap of faith' and jump off a cliff"

Lol, and how many more times has religion screwed with the world instead vs. helping it? Seems ironic, doesn't it.

[judahtics]

I know I'll never understand, but why do Christians think of the bible as higher than laws themselves? I never could grasp that. I think of my own texts as merely a suggestion. It says loads of things that I truly believe in but I don't use it as an encyclopaedia claiming that because it is stated there than it is fact. Faith and fact are quite separate. But anything written in the bible has to be fact now, because my mum and pastor told me so. "But the bible says..." Now, if the bible said to jump off a cliff...

the bible actually says to submit to the laws of your land (romans) unless they go against the laws of God. so christian is for obedience to the laws set before man, as long as you make your choices based on God's law ultimately.

[ExhibitG]

2 timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

there is the verse.

I don't care. regardless of whether or not it's in the Bible, that verse was not written by God, and therefore can not know what God truly wants. Even Christianity acknowledges that the Bible is not written by God, although I'm sure most would believe this. that would then go back to my only-believing-some-of-the-Bible point.

[Syvelocin]

the bible actually says to submit to the laws of your land (romans) unless they go against the laws of God. so christian is for obedience to the laws set before man, as long as you make your choices based on God's law ultimately.

Obedience? Where the hell does that get you in life?

[judahtics]

I don't care. regardless of whether or not it's in the Bible, that verse was not written by God, and therefore can not know what God truly wants. Even Christianity acknowledges that the Bible is not written by God, although I'm sure most would believe this. that would then go back to my only-believing-some-of-the-Bible point.

what denomination would you say you are? if any?

[User Deleted]

you are aware it's talking about things that go against the Bible correct?

And who determines what the bible says is correct? The pastor making the changes and the translators. Because think about it, there is no guide to corrections, then correcting the bible as it is the only guide is changing your guide, therefor automatically making itself correct.

[judahtics]

Obedience? Where the hell does that get you in life?

well 1 john says those who love God will be obedient to God. if you lack obedience you don't love him.

And who determines what the bible says is correct? The pastor making the changes and the translators.

that tends to be based on conviction. however going blantenly against scripture is not true repentance.

[User Deleted]

well 1 john says those who love God will be obedient to God. if you lack obedience you don't love him.

And so when I disobey my parents saying something I don't love them? No.

that tends to be based on conviction. however going blantenly against scripture is not true repentance.

So when someone started making fiction books because it wasn't true it was a sin? They CALLED OUT enjoying your free time as a sin. Please, based on conviction, that's shit, the preset 7 deadly sins are more than describing it and everything people change/add is bull crap. Even church says so. If people do something not called bible it is not bad. Simple as that.

Not to mention how much hippocriticality there is revolving Christianity and other religion.

[sammy1996]

the bible to far too hypocritical for me to believe in, modern day christians choose what they want to believe simply glossing over the bits they choose to ignore.
thanks to firm beliefs and science im an atheist.

[judahtics]

And so when I disobey my parents saying something I don't love them? No.

they are also aren't your king. they also didn't die for you and take on a painful, discouraging, tormenting, death to save your eternal soul. well if you believe in Jesus anyway.


So when someone started making fiction books because it wasn't true it was a sin? They CALLED OUT enjoying your free time as a sin. Please based on conviction, that's shit, the preset 7 deadly sins are more than describing it and everything people change/add is bull crap. Even church says so.

the 7 deadly sins where actually put together by the pope and they are simply based on scripture from proverbs and matthew.

[Syvelocin]

well 1 john says those who love God will be obedient to God. if you lack obedience you don't love him.

Mmm. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

I guess I don't love God. Awww shite. I'm going to go think for myself now and live my life.

they are also aren't your king. they also didn't die for you and take on a painful, discouraging, tormenting, death to save your eternal soul. well if you believe in Jesus anyway.


My mum actually did something for me. That's the difference. My mum is more a queen in my eyes than some guy who's existence is based on faith. And she had to push me out of her birth canal. That's painful and tormenting too. But I'm not even obedient to her because full obedience is weak. Again, you'll get nowhere thinking that everything will be handed to you only if you are quiet and sit there like a good boy.

[User Deleted]

they are also aren't your king. they also didn't die for you and take on a painful, discouraging, tormenting, death to save your eternal soul. well if you believe in Jesus anyway.

the 7 deadly sins where actually put together by the pope and they are simply based on scripture from proverbs and matthew.

So birth isn't as bad as they say XD... sorry just trying to lighten the mood... Well so every time someone does me a favor I have to give them a shred of my obedience? Then hell, I better listen to everyone, and when they tell me jump off a cliff... gee I'll just have to listen.

Exactly, even our rules were made up by us. It is over complicated by our 'corrections' and that alone if I am not mistaken is a sin.

[sammy1996]

^ i agree, faith and religon aside, most wars have religous starts, or atleast contribute.
personally i think religons cause more damage than good, they just segragate the community and warp individuals beliefs

[ExhibitG]

what denomination would you say you are? if any?

Christian, if you read my post.

[User Deleted]

Christian, if you read my post.

I think he meant more specific, I am southern baptist... but loosely.

[judahtics]

no, you don't have to be obedient to everyone who does something for you. why? because they are not your king. christians, real christians, knowing place Jesus as the ruler and king over their life and actions.

as far as birth vs crucifixion, no comparison! even if you don't believe in Jesus, crucifixion was a real way to punish people and is actually noted to be a very brutal death.

as far as why to obey and the big deal over obedience, well,

your mom wasn't/isn't perfect - her sacrifice of birth, can't get you into heaven
making Jesus you King - is a gateway to heaven or the gate key. it takes a perfect sacrifice. in the old testament they made constant sacrifice, new testament they made one final ultimate sacrifice, Jesus.

I think he meant more specific, I am southern baptist... but loosely.

thanks for clarifying. i guess he didn't understand there are denominations within christianity.

[User Deleted]

no, you don't have to be obedient to everyone who does something for you. why? because they are not your king. christians, real christians, knowing place Jesus as the ruler and king over their life and actions.

as far as birth vs crucifixion, no comparison! even if you don't believe in Jesus, crucifixion was a real way to punish people and is actually noted to be a very brutal death.

as far as why to obey and the big deal over obedience, well,

your mom wasn't/isn't perfect - her sacrifice of birth, can't get you into heaven
making Jesus you King - is a gateway to heaven or the gate key. it takes a perfect sacrifice. in the old testament they made constant sacrifice, new testament they made one final ultimate sacrifice, Jesus.

And yet nobody hears god to know all he wants you to do. Neat hun, a king who rules your life in the dark unseen corner.

I know, it was my sad attempt at a joke

Oh, lovely, so going back to heaven was so bad? Some people with disorders experience more pain and they are innocent.

[Syvelocin]

your mom wasn't/isn't perfect - her sacrifice of birth, can't get you into heaven
making Jesus you King - is a gateway to heaven or the gate key. it takes a perfect sacrifice. in the old testament they made constant sacrifice, new testament they made one final ultimate sacrifice, Jesus.

Ohohoho. Au contraire. I think you'll find there are way more flaws than you know of in Jesus. And my mum is goddamn perfect, thank you very much. She's flawed, but she's real. And that's why she's perfect.

Why do you need a king? That makes him MORE valuable than yourself. And that doesn't work. And everyone is just as valuable as the next. Even a magical Jewish man with a beard.

And I'll say it again, religion isn't foolproof. You can have faith in it, but know one knows for sure. I hate to burst your bubble, but you may actually just die. And then you wasted your life praising how lovely heaven is and how much you desire to go there when it ended up not existing. This is the only time you have on earth, so it is therefore MORE important than heaven. You get to be in heaven for eternity. You get only a short time on earth.

[judahtics]

And yet nobody hears god to know all he wants you to do. Neat hun, a king who rules your life in the dark unseen corner.

I know, it was my sad attempt at a joke

Oh, lovely, so going back to heaven was so bad? Some people with disorders experience more pain and they are innocent.

according to the Bible Jesus was innocent and died so people that don't deserve heaven don't have to encounter hell.

Why do you need a king? That makes him MORE valuable than yourself. And that doesn't work.

maybe i should mention, i'm not a christian.

[User Deleted]

You get to be in heaven for eternity. You get only a short time on earth.

Although I almost agree with everything you say... it is an eternity in heaven... or hell... Hell is the big factor of descion that for people who want to manipulate the bible can use hell as a lever for persuasion.


according to the Bible Jesus was innocent and died so people that don't deserve heaven don't have to encounter hell.

Then lets kill innocent babies so they are happy in heaven. lower overpopulation, happy kids, mass slaughter, everyone's happy!

[Syvelocin]

maybe i should mention, i'm not a christian.

Uhhh...

>.> <.<

o.O

Well, you fooled me....

Although I almost agree with everything you say... it is an eternity in heaven... or hell... Hell is the big factor of descion that for people who want to manipulate the bible can use hell as a lever for persuasion.

Yeah, I know, sorry, I'm used to my mum who doesn't believe in hell and only heaven. :P But a lot of people don't think about it, because they're so obedient that they can't possibly go to hell. And of course, everyone has different concepts of how you get into heaven. Some are the same, but if you talk to a Catholic, then a Baptist, I feel like you'll get a few different answers.

[User Deleted]

Yeah, I know, sorry, I'm used to my mum who doesn't believe in hell and only heaven. :P But a lot of people don't think about it, because they're so obedient that they can't possibly go to hell. And of course, everyone has different concepts of how you get into heaven. Some are the same, but if you talk to a Catholic, then a Baptist, I feel like you'll get a few different answers.

I never thought much about the area of how differing religions have differing ideas oh how to get to heaven. I guess I am a little stumped. But still, it is like scaring people into obedience even more. More possibilities of failure. Less potential wiggle room. But I suppose some people would worry less. In that case I suppose I agree. If you think you can enjoy your life on your own path and go to heaven go for it.

[Syvelocin]

I could send you the pamphlet my step-dad's sister in-law sent me. It's on how to get into heaven, the southern baptist way. It's a delightful read.

[User Deleted]

I could send you the pamphlet my step-dad's sister in-law sent me. It's on how to get into heaven, the southern baptist way. It's a delightful read.

Lol, I know all about southern baptist. It is practically believe and ask "forgive me" Then there are details which I wont even get into because it is off topic and somewhat long.

[Syvelocin]

Lol, I know all about southern baptist. It is practically believe and ask "forgive me" Then there are details which I wont even get into because it is off topic and somewhat long.

Oh yes. But I was just remarking that I've got something official that dictates exactly what to do. So I kept it. To do the opposite. :P (And I can't tell you how much I laughed when I had the aunt I've met twice saying that she was "worrying about my soul")

[judahtics]

i think it's funny that people claim they are "christians" don't even know what the bible says. it's really entertaining to be honest.

[Syvelocin]

^ First thing I've agreed with you about in this thread. It's scary that I know more about what the bible says than some people do. And I haven't even touched one.

[User Deleted]

Oh yes. But I was just remarking that I've got something official that dictates exactly what to do. So I kept it. To do the opposite. :P (And I can't tell you how much I laughed when I had the aunt I've met twice saying that she was "worrying about my soul")

Lol, that's so awesome and horrible at the same time :D


i think it's funny that people claim they are "christians" don't even know what the bible says. it's really entertaining to be honest.

I am not claiming to be christian, (not saying that you were saying I did but just... yeah) but my beliefs revolve around southern baptist. I learned a lot about the bible, forgot probably even more, but I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

But I find it more ridiculous than funny, you need to know something about a religion to claim to be part of it.

[judahtics]

well the thing is, with christianity, it's about the Bible.

[User Deleted]

well the thing is, with christianity, it's about the Bible.

Well any religion needs a way to be passed on, its either about a book, group of people passing it on, or an alternative method I am unaware of. So not knowing the preaching of a religion and saying I'm christian is like saying I am employed and be searching for a job. Same with not knowing the material of other religion. Just saying, that seems somewhat olbvous. Anyway its late, we'll finish this tomorow or ya'll will go without me or something.

[judahtics]

I don't care. regardless of whether or not it's in the Bible, that verse was not written by God, and therefore can not know what God truly wants. Even Christianity acknowledges that the Bible is not written by God, although I'm sure most would believe this. that would then go back to my only-believing-some-of-the-Bible point.

you are far from a "very strong christian". you are trying yourself to prove he Bible is not accurate and is flawed. that is not something a christian would do.

and there is nothing wrong with obedience. rules are in place for a reason. there is nothing wrong with following them. not to say i've never broken any.

[Syvelocin]

you are far from a "very strong christian". you are trying yourself to prove he Bible is not accurate and is flawed. that is not something a christian would do.

Nope. That's something a rational person would do. I may just be surrounded by unusual Christians, but I have loads of friends I can have a sincere discussion with about Christianity, and they themselves say it's only faith and they're not sure, but that's the definition of faith. You should be analysing the bible, for it's strengths and it's flaws. It's your religion anyway. It's something so powerful, so personal, that you should be interested in not only learning about it, but questioning it, and thinking about it.

and there is nothing wrong with obedience. rules are in place for a reason. there is nothing wrong with following them. not to say i've never broken any.

Oh yes. I'm not saying I go around defying the government. But understand that religions are to control the masses. And that's just what is happening. By obeying without exceptions, you're not living your life. You're letting someone else dictate it for you, letting them control your thoughts, your morals, your behaviour. The seven deadly sins are bullshit because they're all human nature. Religion is in place to cut down risks, to keep the sheep in line. It's dehumanization. They don't want anyone questioning, doubting, straying, rebelling, being their own person. Now, there are ways to get around that and still be a form of a Christian, but without letting yourself be a product of religion, but having religion be a product of your own opinions and spirituality.

[judahtics]

there is always someone dictating our lives. something also leads us in some way. whether it's trauma, religion, this that or other. no one makes up theory on his own.

[Syvelocin]

there is always someone dictating our lives. something also leads us in some way. whether it's trauma, religion, this that or other. no one makes up theory on his own.

Of course. Influence comes from everywhere. But I think you're missing it. This is a single source, not just influencing, not just giving bits and pieces, but an entire way to think, a flawed way to think because of that. You should realize how you are supposed to think. Religion is something so personal, something that can be so beautiful. But no one seems to opt for that. Instead, we like to be told exactly what the fuck to do, and we don't like analysing things. It's brainwashing at its finest.

Religion leads people more than they should be led. That's the difference. We should be forced to think, question, doubt, explore, imagine, create. But we're not. They're making it too easy for us, and they get to win twice over.

[Aweshum]

I'm gonna come in at my own angle.
Over here in Northern Ireland, there are conflicts and murders based over what somebody believes in. Just because somebodys beliefs differ from yours doesn't mean they should be punished or hated. I have heard of young teens who came out to their religious family and they were disowned, because of what the parents believe in.
I was brought up a Catholic, and went to a Catholic school, but I never continued in being religous.
I hated being brought up in a religion which I had no say in at all.
In my life right now, I'm having problems knowing my family won't accept me for who I am, and there's nothing I can do about that because I have to value their beliefs.

[ExhibitG]

no, you don't have to be obedient to everyone who does something for you. why? because they are not your king. christians, real christians, knowing place Jesus as the ruler and king over their life and actions.

as far as birth vs crucifixion, no comparison! even if you don't believe in Jesus, crucifixion was a real way to punish people and is actually noted to be a very brutal death.

as far as why to obey and the big deal over obedience, well,

your mom wasn't/isn't perfect - her sacrifice of birth, can't get you into heaven
making Jesus you King - is a gateway to heaven or the gate key. it takes a perfect sacrifice. in the old testament they made constant sacrifice, new testament they made one final ultimate sacrifice, Jesus.



thanks for clarifying. i guess he didn't understand there are denominations within christianity.

my sincerest apologies, fine sir. i do believe Roman Catholic is the answer you were so desperately searching for.

well the thing is, with christianity, it's about the Bible.

do you at all know the difference between a doctrine and a dogma?

Please do not double post, use the edit button instead. -Syvelocin

[embers]

I skimmed through the posts here, so I may have missed this point already being raised.

Leviticus may be a part of the Old Testament, but those laws (and the like, 600 others) were laws that God/the Lord sent down to prophets like Moses. Love and so on may be encourage in the New Testament, but why was God such a vicious bastard (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html) in the Old Testament? Christians I talk to can never answer this question. They always say it was a law of the time, or that the Old Testament doesn't count. But that doesn't change the fact that a perfect God ordered children to be stoned, plagued Ethiopians, hated gays and mauled children with bears. I don't see why that fact escapes Christians.

[ExhibitG]

I skimmed through the posts here, so I may have missed this point already being raised.

Leviticus may be a part of the Old Testament, but those laws (and the like, 600 others) were laws that God/the Lord sent down to prophets like Moses. Love and so on may be encourage in the New Testament, but why was God such a vicious bastard (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html) in the Old Testament? Christians I talk to can never answer this question. They always say it was a law of the time, or that the Old Testament doesn't count. But that doesn't change the fact that a perfect God ordered children to be stoned, plagued Ethiopians, hated gays and mauled children with bears. I don't see why that fact escapes Christians.

well obviously there has to be a good reason. no religion is based off of an evil God, even if only evil sometimes.

[judahtics]

i'm not a christian of any kind.

[Genghis Khan]

well obviously there has to be a good reason.

Yeah how dare those kids make fun of Elisha's bald head, what other fucking reason do you need? Bring in the bears.

http://ngiley.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pedobear.png

wait wat?

[embers]

well obviously there has to be a good reason. no religion is based off of an evil God, even if only evil sometimes.

Oh of course. It's always excusable when it's God, isn't it? I mean, all the 20+ million killings in the Old Testament, they're all justified, because it's God.

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/338-squidward-doesnt-care.jpg

[Iris]

I don't see why that fact escapes Christians.

Many, MANY basic facts are ignored by them, because they don't believe in religion for any logical reason. It's all about fear. Religion provides them with answers to things they don't understand. So why would they want to acknowledge something that challenges their nice, comfy view of the world?

[User Deleted]

Many, MANY basic facts are ignored by them, because they don't believe in religion for any logical reason. It's all about fear. Religion provides them with answers to things they don't understand. So why would they want to acknowledge something that challenges their nice, comfy view of the world?

And this is why so many Christians, I reiterate, only believe partially in the bible.

[ExhibitG]

Christians don't have to believe in the entire Bible. again, there is a difference between doctrine and dogma.

[User Deleted]

Christians don't have to believe in the entire Bible. again, there is a difference between doctrine and dogma.

But that's not 'true Christianity.' To put a conclusion on how I feel about Christianity and homosexuality, if you don't believe every word of the bible, screw it, it doesn't matter, be any sexuality you please.

[logan fields]

i am 13 and i am obviously gay. i didnt ask to be gay, i didnt chose to be gay so in my mind i accept that god obviously created me this way because kids just dont chose to be gay. in the end i trust in god to know what he is doing and i can feel that in my heart.

[judahtics]

i am 13 and i am obviously gay. i didnt ask to be gay, i didnt chose to be gay so in my mind i accept that god obviously created me this way because kids just dont chose to be gay. in the end i trust in god to know what he is doing and i can feel that in my heart.

unfortunately, if you claim to believe the Bible and all of it, you'd also have to accept is homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell.

[Genghis Khan]

Christians don't have to believe in the entire Bible.

This is exactly why I find it hilarious when Christians go around trying to convert people into their religion when the majority of them don't believe even 10% of it.

Plus, why would you even call yourself a Christian and hop-skip-jump around Christian laws to get to the version you really want? Why not just, well.. I don't know, look at it logically and accept that there is something seriously wrong with it.

[Mewp]

In terms of literal interpretation of the bible, I'd like to point out that the vast majority of 'Christians' ignore prohibitions on things like diet and the mixing of fabrics. People effectively cherry pick: take what suits you the best. However, it's misleading to claim affiliation with certain groups of the Christian Faith (e.g. denominations - Lutheran, Calvinist, Baptist, Anglican, Catholic) without subscribing to their dogmas.

For instance, you can't be Anglican and not accept the Chalcedonian Creed or be Lutheran and reject sola gratia. This is one reason why most major denominations do not accept non-trinitarians.

[Syvelocin]

My only question is why people are so focused on having a name for their religion that they are willing to call themselves Christian when they're not. You don't need a religion that already exists. You're not limited to how you can think and believe. I never understood that. Religion can be such a beautiful thing, but no one tries to form their own system of beliefs. Even when you pick and choose from Christianity, there aren't many variations of that you hear of on a daily basis.

[Genghis Khan]

My only question is why people are so focused on having a name for their religion that they are willing to call themselves Christian when they're not. You don't need a religion that already exists. You're not limited to how you can think and believe. I never understood that. Religion can be such a beautiful thing, but no one tries to form their own system of beliefs. Even when you pick and choose from Christianity, there aren't many variations of that you hear of on a daily basis.

This x100.

It's society pretty much, everybody wants to belong somewhere. Everyone wants something to identify themselves with.

[judahtics]

people who believe in oneness are not accepted by trinitarian and vis versa, but christian denominations accept other denominations. it comes down to essentials of faith. one essential oneness and trinitarian don't share is just that, they believe completely different about God himself, not just doctrine.

[Mewp]

But christian denominations accept other denominations

The concept of God as a trinity is doctrinal. Refer to the first and third Ecumenical Councils, Arianism, Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness for more details. Also, not all Christian denominations accept others in their rites: many Protestant denominations are not in 'full communion' with the Catholic church for instance.

[judahtics]

the catholic is not viewed by the christian church as christian because it prays to saints. it goes against a main biblical rule on the essential lines of idolatry.

[Mewp]

The Catholic Church is 'the' Christian Church - catholic comes from the greek katholikos, meaning 'universal'. It comprises of slightly more than 50% of the world's 2.2B self identifying Christians. With regards to the charges of idolatry, I believe their position (along with the Orthodox church) is that it is not the icons themselves which are venerated, but that which they represent: a different type of veneration for the saints, Mary & Jesus/God. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry_and_Christianity) for more details.

[ExhibitG]

unfortunately, if you claim to believe the Bible and all of it, you'd also have to accept is homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell.

that is such bullshit.

[ExhibitG]

My only question is why people are so focused on having a name for their religion that they are willing to call themselves Christian when they're not. You don't need a religion that already exists. You're not limited to how you can think and believe. I never understood that. Religion can be such a beautiful thing, but no one tries to form their own system of beliefs. Even when you pick and choose from Christianity, there aren't many variations of that you hear of on a daily basis.

doctrine vs. dogma. what i've been saying all along. there's a huge difference.

[User Deleted]

unfortunately, if you claim to believe the Bible and all of it, you'd also have to accept is homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell.

that is such bullshit.

Exactly, Forgiveness, a large part of religion. And I was taught all sins are equal in how bad they are (but vary in punishment, basically if you are goin to hell for bein gay, you are goin to hell for saying crap, but that is not the case is it)



doctrine vs. dogma. what i've been saying all along. there's a huge difference.

Whats that mean (I confess, I am a total uneducated duface)

[ExhibitG]

Whats that mean (I confess, I am a total uneducated duface)

a doctrine is a teaching of the church in which believing in that teaching is not essential to be a part of that religion. a dogma is a teaching in which believing IS essential.

for example, a dogma of Christianity is that Jesus died to save our lives. if you don't believe that, you aren't Christian. a doctrine would be that Jesus died on Good Friday. does it actually matter what day he died on? no. if you believe that Jesus died on a Tuesday, are you not Christian? no. all you need to believe is that he died for us.

in this case, if i believe in many aspects of the Bible, but i don't believe that homosexuals go to hell, am i still a 'true' Christian? of course i am. it's doctrine, not dogma.

[Mewp]

The acceptance that Jesus was the messiah and died for the sins of mankind and will come again is about it, really. Things like trinitarianism, bodily second coming, the divinity of Jesus etc are all matters of doctrine (widely accepted doctrine admittedly).

[judahtics]

that is such bullshit.

the bible states homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell. therefore if you believe the bible in it's entirety, you also believe homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell. if you don't, you don't believe in the entire bible. if you can't figure that much out, you have an issue.

[ExhibitG]

the bible states homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell. therefore if you believe the bible in it's entirety, you also believe homosexuality is not natural and leads to hell. if you don't, you don't believe in the entire bible. if you can't figure that much out, you have an issue.

i figured it out, thanks, but you implied that if you don't believe in the entire Bible, you aren't a "true" Christian. if so, please see my above posts on doctrine vs dogma.

[judahtics]

Exactly, Forgiveness, a large part of religion. And I was taught all sins are equal in how bad they are (but vary in punishment, basically if you are goin to hell for bein gay, you are goin to hell for saying crap, but that is not the case is it)

ok, as far as what the bible says, here is the deal.

all sins are equal with the exception of one - blasphemy
there is also sins against the body, which are "worse", but not in level just a sort of severity, if that makes sense.

when it comes to homosexuality vs other sins, it's actually a matter of repentance, not sin. if someone sins, which everyone does, it's forgiven if they repent. now here's the thing, repentance means a 180, you aren't going to continue in the sin anymore. not to say you don't occasionally mess up.

so the difference is, sinning, and living in sin.

it is not a sin to be a homosexual and to be think the same sex is appealing. however, it is a sin to participate in homosexual acts.

when i made the comment about the "true christian", a true bible believing christian, believes the scripture, the whole of it, is the word of God. if you believe some is true and some isn't, that makes it all void. but anyway, i'm not saying anymore on this subject. i understand "christians" believe different things, but true christianity as described biblically, is only one thing, not thousands.

what i'm talking about is biblical. i am not just saying what i think so if you don't like it, please don't shoot the messenger. i'm not a believer in this.

[Allbutanillusion]

Well, first off , let me say that ..., yes I do realize that this is off of topic a little. I know that someone who professes to be christian started this thread so I don't really take issue with that person.

However after doing some quick searching, within this forum, I have quickly realized that it is anti-christian. That christian bashing is the norm. And I am a little offended by that but also have to ask why?

I mean as an homosexual person , I would think that you would have more of an issue with Islam. Mow I know that now days that it is Politically correct to bash Islam but if if Christianity is fair game so is Islam in my opinion.

Anyway, back to the point/observation that I was going to make. In Islam and Islamic nations , being gay is a death sentence, they execute people who are homosexual. I would think as a gay person you would want to put more time into fighting against that rather than some extreme christian running their mouth .

Just my two cents, I was just getting tried and annoyed by seeing people always bashing Christianity but being oddly silent about Islam.

[ExhibitG]

judahtics was banned :O

[landone]

Actually, I have found that a lot of the "Anti Gay, No Shaving, No Tatoos, etc." are basically Jewish law found in the Old Testament. It doesn't say anything about anti gays in the new testament (I believe... correct me if I'm wrong) besides Revelations, which has been debated whether it had been translated wrong in the first place. So, I think you're in the clear... from what I know. I used to be curious too, but I'm not really anymore. And I am christian.

[Maxxie]

Actually, I have found that a lot of the "Anti Gay, No Shaving, No Tatoos, etc." are basically Jewish law found in the Old Testament. It doesn't say anything about anti gays in the new testament (I believe... correct me if I'm wrong) besides Revelations, which has been debated whether it had been translated wrong in the first place. So, I think you're in the clear... from what I know. I used to be curious too, but I'm not really anymore. And I am christian.

Au contrare (I dunno if I'm using that right... Sounds fancy).

Romans 1:24-26.

Even though it sort of explicitly states how God gave them over to Homosexual lusts, which is a major whatthefuck in the first place. And also, the part in the Bible (Epistle of Paul? Not sure), where it says "Each woman shall have her husband, and each man his wife", which is interpreted to mean Marriage = One man, One woman.

Which, you know, is complete bullshite.

Christianity is the product of a time long past, moulded and shaped for the people at the time, and changed and corrupted for use of the powerful. Whatever truth might have existed in there is long gone, but it remains a relic of antiquity - we, as a race, have advanced past the simplicity of their time, moved on from bigotry and oppression (for the most part), and religion (The Big Three in particular) is just holding our minds back from acceptance of things that are different.

For proof of the primitiveness of the time, and he'll, the brutality, just look at Leviticus.

What's strange is that Leviticus is strangely similar to Hammurabi's Code.

[jessehs]

if anyone tells you how you feel is wrong, you should stop caring about their opinion

[SyrupSeal]

Well I am bisexual, and agnostic/atheist so no conflicts there but I was interested in your opinion and its perfectly logical to me.

[Marc5]

how can someone feel wrong? isn't that a choice?

[Short Circuit]

Its all Gods fault! He gave us the power to fall in love, and you cannot help who you fall in love with.

I am not a believer, but would never subscribe to the "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" BS

If your religion does not accept who and what you are, then I think you are in the wrong religion. I am sure there are gay churches around!

P.S. How was Jesus betrayed? By a kiss from Judas, is that not a gay act? Two men kissing!

[Rdsxbaseballfan]

i believe people should be able to love who they want.
im bi and im actually an athiest so i dont have to worry but i dont think religion should be allowed to say a guy cant love another guy or vice versa. but tahts just my opinion

[Curoz]

The big religions are so messed up that it's amazing people still believe.
The pope is one of the most evil humans currently living on this planet, and the fact that millions of people gather to see him, or just for him to touch them so they go to a fantasy land called heaven is very sad. They claim to hold the answers and have the right morals but they are the biggest bunch of unaccepting b*****ds in exhistance.
The big religions go about there business without question, but when a person just as Mad as the large religion leaders starts a "religion" on a smaller scale it's called a cult and negatively stigmatized by the masses, who are like sheep constantly playing a game of follow the leader.

[Blank]

I'd just like to put this out there.

I used to be a non believer myself. I thought Christianity was just another religion made by ordinary people who cooked up stories. The entire religion just seemed to me like a giant group of hate mongers who wanted everyone to see things their way by threatening people with the idea of hell.

But I decided to visit church one day. This nagging feeling at the back of my head, no matter how I tried to reason with it, I just couldn't get rid of it. What could I lose? I'd just have a look around to see what it was like, and what the fuss, whether for or against it, was all about.

It was uncomfortable at first, singing all the songs about praising the Lord. But slowly, God revealed himself to me. He is a very real God. He has been my best friend. I am struggling with homosexuality, but by His grace He has removed these feelings bit by bit. This is not something that I can get you to understand through mere words, it is only through experience itself where you can understand God, feel His literal presence and love. There have been times where I've felt completely alone, having to deal with homosexuality in a homophobic environment. Having few close friends. I literally had no one to share these feelings with. God provided me with that outlet to pour out my emotions.

God loves, and does not condemn. We only feel condemned because we have pushed God away. If you look on the internet, there are thousands of testimonies about how people have changed through God. Look up Shelly Luben on youtube, she's an ex-porn star. She shares about how she escaped the porn industry, and exposes it's truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLFAiTlGahE

Watch this video, another testimony from how a homosexual woman freed herself from homosexuality.

[Alexwellace]

I'm afraid i am no expert in Christianity at age 13 (Although i am taking my RS GCSE 3 years early :D) and i am while am not a direct believer, i have an opinion on this.

According to the Bible God Loves You, as you are, how he made you, and however you live as long as you love him back, is this not right?

So if you are a Christian, and you are homosexual-Bi but you still love god, what can he condem you for? For Loving? Or for commititing a unholy act for which no reason is given for why it is unholy?

If God Loves You then why would he condem you for how he made you, that would make no sense.And if Christianity ends up being right and heaven is real i believe any1 who has lived there life through Gods rule of peace and love, if they worship him or not, they will get into those pearly white gates.

[Vonn]

It was uncomfortable at first, singing all the songs about praising the Lord. But slowly, God revealed himself to me. He is a very real God. He has been my best friend. I am struggling with homosexuality, but by His grace He has removed these feelings bit by bit. This is not something that I can get you to understand through mere words, it is only through experience itself where you can understand God, feel His literal presence and love. There have been times where I've felt completely alone, having to deal with homosexuality in a homophobic environment. Having few close friends. I literally had no one to share these feelings with. God provided me with that outlet to pour out my emotions.

Do you know how many gay people wish they weren't gay? If it's starting to go away as you claim, then it's possible you were never gay. That's called a phase. For the rest of us it's pretty much been settled. It's easier to accept it and move on than try to fight it for your whole life; that just makes you miserable. But, y'know, good for you.

[DerBear]

Please don't bump old threads, this was from 2011 :locked: