transgender

[judahtics]

i respect all humans as people. all humans deserve respect for being alive, having feelings and being who they are. i also respect people for honoring who they are and being loyal to them self. it's not always an easy thing to do.

the one thing that does bother me though, is transgender people. mostly because they don't understand. not right now anyway. an ftm isn't experiencing what a typical male experiences, why, because they don't have the same hormones, parts, or mentality. and in the same way, an mtf doesn't have the same to the gender they identify.

it really bothers when i know an ftm is writing in the boys forum in regard to a penis subject, ummm, you don't have a penis. or answering about testicles, again, you don't have testicles. or the other way, questions about vagina's and breasts.

i don't have problems with transgender people and i don't mean this to be a downer in anyway. i'm actually hoping maybe someone, hopefully transgender, can help me understand how they can understand what the sex they identify with is going through, when they don't have the same equipment. i get they MIGHT somewhat understand the emotional side of things, but not the physical. simply because there is nothing for you experience, unless they are post-op or on hormone therapy. anyway, i guess i'm hoping this can be educational.

again, no disrepect.

[ackmedsgirl666]

ok so here is ur answer. i am transgender(justin james williston)
my bestfriend is also transgender and has been going through this longer than me because we came out at serpeate times... anyways we do to an extent experience wheat your typical male can experience. we take T or testocerone and eventually get our breasts and get bottom surgury to give us desired male parts. the only diff is we can't make babies because our bodies aren't designed for it... im not on hormones yet but maybe someday when i have had the councelling i just might get everything done... im a male trapped in a womens body and i hate it.. i eat,talk,sit,act,walk etc everything like a male and i can't help it...... and i wanna change it.... although u didn't tend to be disrespectful or harmful to anyway to anybody in your thread it kind of hurt me....... because bud im going through alot and i already have enuff ppl nagging on me for it...... but like i saID ppl were born either a right way or a wrong way and im glad that now adays we have ppl who are accepting it more and the equipment to do the process :)

[judahtics]

i think my question is more on the physical side. not so much the emotional. a lot of a teens emotions during puberty are based on the physical changes taking places. we are getting more testosterone and having new experiences with our penis's, while you are getting more estrogen and having new experience's with your vagina and breast's. i understand you don't want them and plan on having hormone therapy, but at this point in time, how can you really understand puberty and being male, since there is nothing male (genetically, hormonally, physically) about you?

i think i could understand it better if someone where on T, but not a penis really changes everything. for a guy, your penis is really your best friend lol.

[ShatteredWings]

Um, it's 12:40 am and it's sunday my brain isn't on fully, so Im' not answering this properly *now* I'dprobably snap at you.

But yeah, i'll explain where youre missing facts/points/logic

Um. shortest version
Whats between your ears is not at all attached to whats between your legs and regardless of what hormones are in your body, your brain don't change.

[dead]

You're extremely foolish to group people up like this.

[judahtics]

i thought this was locked? anyway, maybe my question is more,

how do you know you are experiencing what a boy is experiencing and not what a girl is?

[humanesquire]

Just because I don't have a vagina and can't answer for everything does not mean I'm completely ignorant to what's going on with it.

[Angel Androgynous]

Um, it's 12:40 am and it's sunday my brain isn't on fully, so Im' not answering this properly *now* I'dprobably snap at you.

But yeah, i'll explain where youre missing facts/points/logic

Um. shortest version
Whats between your ears is not at all attached to whats between your legs and regardless of what hormones are in your body, your brain don't change.

Just because I don't have a vagina and can't answer for everything does not mean I'm completely ignorant to what's going on with it.

This. I'm not transgender, but just because I am a girl does not mean that I don't know anything about male anatomy...

[judahtics]

you can know. i'm not saying you can't.

it's sad you can't have your desired anatomy.

how does someone know they feel like a boy though? or a girl? either way. how do you know since you aren't a boy? lol, i know that sounds stupid, sorry. i guess since being male or female isn't solely physical or mental, how you could know with only having one? in the long run it's your choice, i honestly just want to understand.

[dead]

you can know. i'm not saying you can't.

it's sad you can't have your desired anatomy.

how does someone know they feel like a boy though? or a girl? either way. how do you know since you aren't a boy? lol, i know that sounds stupid, sorry. i guess since being male or female isn't solely physical or mental, how you could know with only having one? in the long run it's your choice, i honestly just want to understand.

You do realize that different people experience the same things differently even if they're the same gender. The human body differs from person to person.

[judahtics]

of course. but some things are decided by genetics and hormones and even medical conditions sometimes. like G.I.D. and P.C.O.S. for example. then there are C.A.H. conditions. so how do you know what you are feeling isn't female or male if you aren't that sex. maybe you are feeling like a female, just a sterotypical female, same goes for males.

i always wonder, just because i feel like a cat doesn't mean i was born a cat in a human's body. so at what point do we know when it's a medical issue or a mental issue?

[dead]

of course. but some things are decided by genetics and hormones and even medical conditions sometimes. like G.I.D. and P.C.O.S. for example. then there are C.A.H. conditions. so how do you know what you are feeling isn't female or male if you aren't that sex. maybe you are feeling like a female, just a sterotypical female, same goes for males.

i always wonder, just because i feel like a cat doesn't mean i was born a cat in a human's body. so at what point do we know when it's a medical issue or a mental issue?

Different people have different amounts of the same hormones and sometimes different hormones. Regardless if they're the same biological sex.

[judahtics]

i just find it oddly interesting. i can't switch things around. like if i know you are male, i can't start saying female. and if i know you're female, i can't start saying male. i've met lots of trans folks and i've been able to tell every time, so i call them by their given sex. i've tried by chosen gender, but i can't get it out.

[dead]

i just find it oddly interesting. i can't switch things around. like if i know you are male, i can't start saying female. and if i know you're female, i can't start saying male. i've met lots of trans folks and i've been able to tell every time, so i call them by their given sex. i've tried by chosen gender, but i can't get it out.

Yeah, not everyone finds it easy to do even things like that, but if you can't do something the way you want to you should try. Pretty much applicable to any situation, we may not be able to something now, but that does not show you that you will never be able to do it. Just try for the hell of it if you want to. Language is a complicated thing especially when it comes to it intertwining with culture.

[HeroesAndCons]

One of my fave models in the world is a Transgender, he is a cosplayer and he knew he was wrong to be born female, its the feeling of what they are, if they wanna have the features and the feeling of the sex they are meant to be they have the right to be themselves.

[dead]

One of my fave models in the world is a Transgender, he is a cosplayer and he knew he was wrong to be born female, its the feeling of what they are, if they wanna have the features and the feeling of the sex they are meant to be they have the right to be themselves.

He never said they didn't have a right for that. He wants to have more understanding.

[judahtics]

He never said they didn't have a right for that. He wants to have more understanding.

thanks :)

like i said, this isn't about hate or anything like that. it's about education. hopefully not only for me, but others as well. i'm sure i'm not the only one who doesn't exactly get it.

[Sebastian Michaelis]

I don't exactly get it either.
Why have surgery to get a penis or vagina if it doesn't work? Why not just be a masculine female or feminine male? I just don't get it.

[judahtics]

I don't exactly get it either.
Why have surgery to get a penis or vagina if it doesn't work? Why not just be a masculine female or feminine male? I just don't get it.

that's what i'm hoping this thread will help us and others figure out.

[Angel Androgynous]

I don't exactly get it either.
Why have surgery to get a penis or vagina if it doesn't work? Why not just be a masculine female or feminine male? I just don't get it.

Imagine being a boy trapped in a girls body. You look in the mirror and hate your body. You see things that you don't want there. You get your menstrual cycle, you grow breasts. As a guy, how would you feel? The surgery gives them more satisfaction with themselves. It gives them happiness. They don't want to be masculine females or feminine males. A transman is a male (as Shatteredwings put it, between his ears). a transwoman is a woman (between her ears). They want to be it between their legs too.

[judahtics]

Imagine being a boy trapped in a girls body. You look in the mirror and hate your body. You see things that you don't want there. You get your menstrual cycle, you grow breasts. As a guy, how would you feel? The surgery gives them more satisfaction with themselves. It gives them happiness. They don't want to be masculine females or feminine males. A transman is a male (as Shatteredwings put it, between his ears). a transwoman is a woman (between her ears). They want to be it between their legs too.

if they desire to be a man/woman, why say trans pride? why even tell people? telling someone you are trans is telling someone i'm not this i just wanna be.

[Angel Androgynous]

if they desire to be a man/woman, why say trans pride? why even tell people? telling someone you are trans is telling someone i'm not this i just wanna be.

Is this getting into the whole pride debate again? :rolleyes:

They say Trans pride because they get discriminated against, because they are showing that they are strong. Pre op. Trans people tell people they are transgender so that people will know. And they are not physically the opposite gender yet.... so.....

[judahtics]

has nothing to do with pride. it more has to do with why even tell someone. why not just live as a male and leave anything about being female/male outta it. for example, if i didn't know any better, and couldn't tell from looks, whatever. but if i found out and lets say a girl walked into the boys room or a boy into the girls room, there'd be a problem. if a mtf walked into a women's restroom and my sibling was in there, they would have issues walking out. once there is a change, i'm not too concerned, but before that, too many things could happen. i'd never want someone with a penis using a restroom with my 5 year old sister in the next stall. PERIOD. but that's cause they're trans, it's because i care for her. even if a normal guy did i'd have the same response.

anyway, my point was, i think they would have less discrimination if they just kept their mouths shut about not being what they are. make sense? wanna be a boy, be a boy, but don't say you're a boy while walking around with boobs, unless it's a medical condition. or anyone, that's kinda how i see it. don't want to see anyone discriminated against. it's right and never ok.

[kuuliluuk]

I have read about transgenders. For mtf it feel like there is a girl in a boys body. Usually they behave like girls even before puberty. They know they are girls. So genitals and hormones are irrelevant for transgenders. Only helping them to feel more feminine or more male. Once I saw a ftm guy in a cafe. I didn't realize first, my parents said that there is a ftm guy. then I started to watch closer. He had much higher voice and lookend kinda fat. But he was dressed very masculine and he behaved like a true gentleman. I would say, he behaved more male than real males with all male parts and hormones.
So It must be brain not hormones and penises. The same goes with gay's. It is a brain that makes them want other males.

[judahtics]

oh yeah, parts alone don't make a person. it's a combination of parts, hormones, mentality, and other things. it must be difficult to have to lets say "pretend" to be a boy or girl all time and have to find ways of hiding who and "what" you are. it can't be an easy life.

i was wondering for anyone transgender who may read this or anyone who has trans friends, do you know:

do your/their parent's know?

how your/their parent's handled the news?

how do they refer to you/their child, by your/the natural sex, desired gender, or "it" (cause lets face it, some parents shouldn't be parents)?

also, thanks everyone for keeping this an open, honest, non threatening thread. i think it can clear up a lot of confusion and help with discrimination against people in the end. we just need to take the time to understand each other.

[Sebastian Michaelis]

anyway, my point was, i think they would have less discrimination if they just kept their mouths shut about not being what they are. make sense?.

This makes absolute perfect sense to me! I may not be transgender, but if I was I wouldn't tell anyone. The ONLY people you'd need to tell is your parents, especially if you wanted a sex change because they aren't cheap. You should at least wait till your 18 to do anything as drastic to your body as that, just to make sure you really want it and your head is on straight. That way when you start college, assuming many people go to college, nobody would know and you could start you life as a ftm/mtf safely, without the discrimination.

it must be difficult to have to lets say "pretend" to be a boy or girl all time and have to find ways of hiding who and "what" you are. it can't be an easy life.


It isn't an easy life. "Closeted" bisexuals and homosexuals go through it everyday and not to put a value on anything, but I do believe being transgender would be harder to go though.

[Angel Androgynous]

has nothing to do with pride. it more has to do with why even tell someone. why not just live as a male and leave anything about being female/male outta it. for example, if i didn't know any better, and couldn't tell from looks, whatever. but if i found out and lets say a girl walked into the boys room or a boy into the girls room, there'd be a problem. if a mtf walked into a women's restroom and my sibling was in there, they would have issues walking out. once there is a change, i'm not too concerned, but before that, too many things could happen. i'd never want someone with a penis using a restroom with my 5 year old sister in the next stall. PERIOD. but that's cause they're trans, it's because i care for her. even if a normal guy did i'd have the same response.

anyway, my point was, i think they would have less discrimination if they just kept their mouths shut about not being what they are. make sense? wanna be a boy, be a boy, but don't say you're a boy while walking around with boobs, unless it's a medical condition. or anyone, that's kinda how i see it. don't want to see anyone discriminated against. it's right and never ok.

Oh sorry I must have misread at first.
It's hard for me to understand, since I am not transgender, but I suppose I'll try to.
If a Ftm has boobs, as you said, I think it will be important for him to let people know, because then people will know how to address him. You know what I mean? It's like when people ask for your name, but with pre op transpeople it's the same with their gender if people don't understand right away. If that makes sense. :) correct me if I'm wrong.

[judahtics]

Oh sorry I must have misread at first.
It's hard for me to understand, since I am not transgender, but I suppose I'll try to.
If a Ftm has boobs, as you said, I think it will be important for him to let people know, because then people will know how to address him. You know what I mean? It's like when people ask for your name, but with pre op transpeople it's the same with their gender if people don't understand right away. If that makes sense. :) correct me if I'm wrong.

in those cases, maybe people shouldn't start transition to the gender specific pronouns until they can "fit the bill". so until a girl could wear a binder and so on. like i keep saying, just trying to understand a little more.

[Angel Androgynous]

in those cases, maybe people shouldn't start transition to the gender specific pronouns until they can "fit the bill". so until a girl could wear a binder and so on. like i keep saying, just trying to understand a little more.

Put yourself in their shoes though. Imagine your parents aren't accepting and they won't get you a binder, they won't buy you boy clothes. How would you feel, every day being called a "she" being called by your female name... and then you have a chance. A chance to cry out: I'm a boy! A chance to let people know, a chance to be who you are... why not take it?

[ShatteredWings]

Now that I'm actually awake...
Forwarning, this is mostly from the POV of FtM, but can easily be related to MtF.
Fewer transwomen transition as teens, so...

it really bothers when i know an ftm is writing in the boys forum in regard to a penis subject, ummm, you don't have a penis. or answering about testicles, again, you don't have testicles. or the other way, questions about vagina's and breasts.
How the rules are written - and im not a fan of it personally - they're not supposed to. I avoid pube except for modding really...

i think my question is more on the physical side. not so much the emotional. a lot of a teens emotions during puberty are based on the physical changes taking places. we are getting more testosterone and having new experiences with our penis's, while you are getting more estrogen and having new experience's with your vagina and breast's. i understand you don't want them and plan on having hormone therapy, but at this point in time, how can you really understand puberty and being male, since there is nothing male (genetically, hormonally, physically) about you?

i think i could understand it better if someone where on T, but not a penis really changes everything. for a guy, your penis is really your best friend lol.
Okay. Re; your penis is your best friend.
Think how youd feel if it's not there. It's like. omg. where's my dick.
So the hormone changes thing. I'ts like, that's probably when it really kicks in (or it was for me) that your body is wrong.
It's true genetically body is female (or male for MTF), but that's the thing.
That's what makes it so hard, because your life *isn't* the same but you have an overwheming need *for* it to be. If you were suddenly dropped in a female body, and expected to live a girls life - which despite what we want to think is a very different conditioned life than a males - you'd be frustrated and annoyed and angry and a lot of other things.

The PSYCHOLOGY is what matters here. If we're getting anywhere, you need to reconize that the physical body is not the end-all be-all.


i thought this was locked? anyway, maybe my question is more,

how do you know you are experiencing what a boy is experiencing and not what a girl is?
it was, I unlocked it because it could be a decent edumacational thread.

To be honest, you don't. You're not experiancing the puberty of the opposite sex before you get on HRT (HormoneReplacementTherapy, testosterone or estrogen)
But. I guess the easiest was is you know what you're experiencing is wrong for you. If your body grew boobs, that would feel wrong. That's how a transguy feels with female puberty.
[Periods, noooot even going there...]


it's sad you can't have your desired anatomy.

how does someone know they feel like a boy though? or a girl? either way. how do you know since you aren't a boy? lol, i know that sounds stupid, sorry. i guess since being male or female isn't solely physical or mental, how you could know with only having one? in the long run it's your choice, i honestly just want to understand.
It is. MtF SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery) is reasonably effective and almost functions perfectly (no uterus), but FtM is a bit.. Lacking. If you want more on that I'll make another post [NO PICTURES GUYS!]

I know I'm male in the same way you do mentally. you like your own dick, you like being male.
I like what physical masculinity I have, i desire the same as any cismale.


I don't exactly get it either.
Why have surgery to get a penis or vagina if it doesn't work? Why not just be a masculine female or feminine male? I just don't get it.
Vagina = works just sterile
Penis = depending on what you do can work but be small, or work but need a little intervention.

Again if people are curious in a VT-safe writeup on SRS I'll do it.

Imagine being a boy trapped in a girls body. You look in the mirror and hate your body. You see things that you don't want there. You get your menstrual cycle, you grow breasts. As a guy, how would you feel? The surgery gives them more satisfaction with themselves. It gives them happiness. They don't want to be masculine females or feminine males. A transman is a male (as Shatteredwings put it, between his ears). a transwoman is a woman (between her ears). They want to be it between their legs too.
I love you.

if they desire to be a man/woman, why say trans pride? why even tell people? telling someone you are trans is telling someone i'm not this i just wanna be.
Is this getting into the whole pride debate again? :rolleyes:

They say Trans pride because they get discriminated against, because they are showing that they are strong. Pre op. Trans people tell people they are transgender so that people will know. And they are not physically the opposite gender yet.... so.....
Heh. Pride. :rolleyes:
Pride I'm iffy about. It's not the opposite of stealth - which is when a person has fully transitioned to their target gender and tells no one except their doctor - but..
Not huge of pride.
Disclosure, sure. If asked, I don't mind telling, I'll talk, I'll educate.
But wearing a shirt - and I've seen it - that reads (FAAB*)ULOUS is a little much for me

Some people are damn proud of what they are though, and let them be IMO.

*female assigned at birth

i was wondering for anyone transgender who may read this or anyone who has trans friends, do you know:

do your/their parent's know?

how your/their parent's handled the news?

how do they refer to you/their child, by your/the natural sex, desired gender, or "it" (cause lets face it, some parents shouldn't be parents)?

also, thanks everyone for keeping this an open, honest, non threatening thread. i think it can clear up a lot of confusion and help with discrimination against people in the end. we just need to take the time to understand each other.
Nope. And I'm out at school. double life sucks.
NA
Parents refer to me as female bc they don't know. Friends/teachers are all over the board.

in those cases, maybe people shouldn't start transition to the gender specific pronouns until they can "fit the bill". so until a girl could wear a binder and so on. like i keep saying, just trying to understand a little more.
Yaeh. Pronouns are hard.
If you're not making an effort to pass, it's difficult at times.
But it's also rude to blatantly ignore someone's reuquested pronoun preference.
Male, female, neutral.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llfgsb0GVe1qghfy5o1_500.jpg
^ useful

[judahtics]

i know proper pronouns, but that post was very useful and education, thank you.

you mentioned being "assigned female at birth" can you say more about that? are you ftm or do you have an intersex condition? bit confused, sorry.

[ShatteredWings]

i know proper pronouns, but that post was very useful and education, thank you.

you mentioned being "assigned female at birth" can you say more about that? are you ftm or do you have an intersex condition? bit confused, sorry.

Yeah, sure.
Biologically and legally(fornow) I'm female. As to whether or not I've got any intersex conditions. Heh. I don't know but not likely.
But, as you can see on profile i ID as male, so i present as male. Cut my hair, bind, wear guys clothes. Basically I've done everything I can short of hormones to present male, and for the most part anymore I pass.

[judahtics]

Yeah, sure.
Biologically and legally(fornow) I'm female. As to whether or not I've got any intersex conditions. Heh. I don't know but not likely.
But, as you can see on profile i ID as male, so i present as male. Cut my hair, bind, wear guys clothes. Basically I've done everything I can short of hormones to present male, and for the most part anymore I pass.

so if a trans puts they are the gender they identify with, they can post on that forum, even if you know they are the opposite sex or not? i was confused on that.

[Iris]

Your Rude, Insulting, Ignorant, Selfish, and just deserve to be banned fromm this site untill your able to be a normal human being, I hate you, And your being a jerk about this, There is ABSOLUTLY nothing wrong with being trans, So don't go all homophobic and hate everyone, I saw the msg you posted on my wall, And trans never IS gonna GET accepted because of jerks like you,l You cant understand it because you are not trans alright, So shut up and stop talking about how much you hate us, I am not unlike anyone else on this forum except i identify diffrently, and the same for kyle and justin, You really need a lesson on how to treat people right, just because you hate transgender people doesnt mean you have the rite go make a thread about it, you dont see ME going around making threads about how i dont like straight people, So have a little decency and say sorry, because you've hurt ME, And Justin, and most likely kyle if HE was fully awake and could process how RUDE this thread was, you have made fun of people on here for countless reasons, And it needs to stop, ohhh how i wish i was a mod on here, you'd be gone in a second!

I think you're the one who's being rude and insulting. This guy is trying to understand, that's it. He's being blunt and to the point, which somehow became rude in our society. He's said over and over again how he's just trying to understand, and that is completely justified; if you're not going through it yourself it is difficult to understand. It's not him you're really mad at, it's actual transgender-phobes, who'd probably be far more accepting if they tried to understand transgenders like he is, by the way.

[ShatteredWings]

Pube rules are iffy,rule of thumb is if it's ambigous, don't post is basically how it works *or how admin has explained to me if I'm mistaken do clarify*

[Angel Androgynous]

so if a trans puts they are the gender they identify with, they can post on that forum, even if you know they are the opposite sex or not?

How do you know that you're a guy? Besides the penis, of course. c:

Eh I'll add on. I suppose there are doubts, there is fear, and there are big decisions. It takes courage to come out as trans. It takes courage to live as trans. They know because there is something wrong with the body that they are in now. They feel like it is the wrong body. Something in their mind just keeps on ticking. "I'm in the wrong body. I need to get out. I need to make changes."

[AltoVaughn]

They live in their body... I think They know. You don't need to understand them, you need to respect their feelings. I'm happy with my gender... but people that aren't deserve to be able to be what they want to be.

As I understand it they already have the mentality of the gender they wish they were. So they do understand what it feels like to be that gender. With added difficulties.

Being gay may be difficult and make you stronger, But I can't imagine being transgender and I think that they must be really really strong people to deal with that.

Love and Respect :)

[judahtics]

They live in their body... I think They know. You don't need to understand them, you need to respect their feelings. I'm happy with my gender... but people that aren't deserve to be able to be what they want to be.

As I understand it they already have the mentality of the gender they wish they were. So they do understand what it feels like to be that gender. With added difficulties.

Being gay may be difficult and make you stronger, But I can't imagine being transgender and I think that they must be really really strong people to deal with that.

Love and Respect :)

i agree, it must be tough!

as far the whole who knows thing, had they not said, i'm a guy in a girls body, no one would have known, but they chose to make it known they have a vagina and boobs, which unfortunately, go along with female puberty issues (on the physical side) and the same goes for an mtf. now i understand why they'd speak on the emotional side of puberty to a degree. like the awkwardness of asking out a girl and things like that. but nothing else, they experience. they don't have to worry about showering with other guys, am i big enough, and the uncertianty.

i'm not saying they don't have difficulties because i know they do! trying to figure out life feeling male and having a vagina and boobs or vis versa can't be easy. trying to figure out how to tell your parents, how to be accepted. i mean, i get there are challenges, i just see them as being different than a teen boy or girl depending on the situation.

[ShatteredWings]

Um. Can you rephrase that, i *think* I know what youre trying to get at but Im not sure

[judahtics]

i'm saying i understand how they might identify with a male on the mental emotional side of puberty to a degree (except for the hormonal changes) and how some things would apply. basically, the same things would apply to gay person? a lesbian is still going to be nervous about asking out a girl, and an ftm is also going to be nervous about asking out a girl. the difference is, the ftm feels she is a male, so wants to approach her future gf as a male, which would make sense as to why she would want to be on a male forum and that is puberty related.

but, she won't understand the physical side of puberty or how a boys physical changes affect his mental changes and mental changes his physical changes.

since an ftm still has a vagina and boobs she would need to be on a girls forum when it come to physical aspects of puberty. but i also understand they desire to have a mans body. but since they don't, they can't have an honest opinion, or knowledge of what a boy is going through.

now an ftm is also experiencing things boys don't understand and girls don't understand. they have a unique set of challenges, things different than anyone else going through puberty. it's not just like a gay person or straight person.

what bothers me is the fact some people say the understand when they don't. an ftm doesn't know the feeling of needing to showering with a room full of guys, having concerns about his penis, or his nuts not developing right. not to say she doesn't understand the mental side, but they both go hand in hand.

physical changes and mental changes have much to do with one another.

[humanesquire]

I'm not interjecting into the current conversation, but adding my own bit to the whole of it.
Physically, I'm a boy. Mentally, I'm a girl. Due to my living conditions and the horribly close-minded grandparents I live with, I can't begin to transition. All I'm able to do is a little, very light, private cross dressing.
I hate my body. I really do. I hate my flat figure, my long neck with a huge Adam's apple, and my penis. I can't stand having this thing! Boners are so annoying and I'll get them at the most random of times and it's dreadful. I would do damn near anything to have the security of knowing I'm in the right body. Do you know how hard it is to look down and see all that you are not but know you should be? It's awful.

[judahtics]

i don't doubt that it's difficult. and i am truly sorry for what you're going through. if i was a parent a couldn't allow my child to transition if under 18, after 18 and out of my home, they may do as they wish. now what i would do is this, allow them hormone blockers. only because puberty is a bad time to make such a huge life choice.

i appreciate how you, even though feel and identify female, have put male as your sex. because when it comes to puberty, you are being affected by your physical body changes and mental changes.

there is one user who posts on both sides and that really bothers me. you are male or female. she happens to be a female, and signed up as male, but has made it known she has a female body.

anyway, i hope your grandparents open up to the idea of something that can help you. maybe counseling or something. because that's the first step anyway. so you'd actually be one step ahead.

[humanesquire]

My gender on here is male because I made this account (See: June 11, 2009) before all of this gender bullshit. It has nothing to do with my gender identity. Personally, I don't feel I deserve to change it. I live as male so that's what I am to everyone around me. If I come out as female and start transitioning I'll change it.

[judahtics]

you could always set it to not show too. maybe that would help, not seeing "male" i mean.

[AltoVaughn]

i agree, it must be tough!

as far the whole who knows thing, had they not said, i'm a guy in a girls body, no one would have known, but they chose to make it known they have a vagina and boobs, which unfortunately, go along with female puberty issues (on the physical side) and the same goes for an mtf. now i understand why they'd speak on the emotional side of puberty to a degree. like the awkwardness of asking out a girl and things like that. but nothing else, they experience. they don't have to worry about showering with other guys, am i big enough, and the uncertianty.

i'm not saying they don't have difficulties because i know they do! trying to figure out life feeling male and having a vagina and boobs or vis versa can't be easy. trying to figure out how to tell your parents, how to be accepted. i mean, i get there are challenges, i just see them as being different than a teen boy or girl depending on the situation.

The Physical side of puberty is easy. Whatever parts you have get bigger. You sweat more. ect ect. The physical problems boys and and girls through is really similar. Besides Genitals it's pretty much the same. The rest is mental. (As for showering with other guys, they have to shower with girls and worry about breast size, It's all evened out.) The only thing I can think of that's significantly different is women having their period.

[judahtics]

i'm not saying one has it worse than the other, i'm just saying they are different. boys and girls aren't the same. if someone doesn't have a penis, the can't understand what it's like to have one. just like i can't say what it's like to have a vagina, no matter how badly i might want one. a desire for something, doesn't stick it on my body.

which would actually make everything easier for a trans. too bad sex is determined by genetics and hormones and gender isn't.

[dead]

i'm not saying one has it worse than the other, i'm just saying they are different. boys and girls aren't the same. if someone doesn't have a penis, the can't understand what it's like to have one. just like i can't say what it's like to have a vagina, no matter how badly i might want one. a desire for something, doesn't stick it on my body.

which would actually make everything easier for a trans. too bad sex is determined by genetics and hormones and gender isn't.

Not to intrude on what you think, but there's not just male and female. Also if you think everyone is XY or XX you're way off. There's XXX, XXY, XXXX, XXXY, and a few others.

[judahtics]

Not to intrude on what you think, but there's not just male and female. Also if you think everyone is XY or XX you're way off. There's XXX, XXY, XXXX, XXXY, and a few others.

yes, those are because of certain intersex conditions. i'm very aware.

[dead]

yes, those are because of certain intersex conditions. i'm very aware.

Actually none of those are inter sex.

[judahtics]

Actually none of those are inter sex.

uh actually all of those are cause by intersex conditions. but this isn't a thread about intersex, it's a thread about transgender. so lets stick to the topic.

[humanesquire]

By your logic, I am to understand that male gynecologists can't understand?

[Syvelocin]

I have some similar issues, again, not in acceptance but because of my own mindsets and beliefs. I love transgenders, I know a few. All of it is completely rational, but I don't believe in mental gender, so I have some issues talking to them in-depth about it. Sometimes I'll try to comfort but I'll end up coming off as if I'm dismissing their feelings, which I'm not.

I do understand the point you made. And I also have to back up the points others have made, including the good example Will just made. No, they can't truly know what it's like, but not everyone is so sheltered that they don't have a basic idea of the other sex. Some people are, but there are a lot of people who aren't.

i'm not saying one has it worse than the other, i'm just saying they are different. boys and girls aren't the same.

Ehm. No. We're only different because we choose to be that way. There are very few true differences between males and females. The rest is our culture. There are a couple personality differences that are factually characteristic of males and females, such as the male instinct of hunting and reproduction, and the female instinct of caring and nurturing. The other 90% of it is stereotypes and upbringing. And if we count the penis vs. boobs and vagina thing. But even that is more minor than I think you understand.

[kuuliluuk]

It is sad that in our society transgendered people problems aren't dealt before they are 18. Most of them know their true gender already before puberty and modern medicine could help these people very easy. First making sure, that problem is truly in gender and then helping them to go through correct puberty with correct hormones, which would make all later and very big problems nil. Like having low voice and huge adam's apple or having huge breasts. Also skeletal features can not be changed much after puberty which makes transgendered people look awkward despite they try to hide their abnormally wide shoulders and other similar features not belonging to his or her gender. There was a happy transgendered girl Kim Petras who was able to start transition very early thanks to her parents. And she was able to go through girls puberty, avoid low voice and other male features from developing. What I think there is a lot to do to help transgendered people. If transition starts early he or she will have much less problematic life later. Much less very expensive surgeries and much more natural looking appearence, so noone could tell and thus ask stupid questions.

[judahtics]

i wouldn't allow my child to transition until they were out of my house, even if they were 18. but like i said earlier, with counseling and other things, i would let them take hormone blockers to prevent puberty, but that's it.

[Syvelocin]

^ Why?

[Angel Androgynous]

I would allow for my child to transition.
Kim Petras is gorgeous! And Judah, I think you should research transgender children. It might help you understand.

[judahtics]

i've looked into a bit, but that doesn't change where i stand. if my child is born a certain sex, they will remain that sex until they are out of my house.

[Angel Androgynous]

i've looked into a bit, but that doesn't change where i stand. if my child is born a certain sex, they will remain that sex until they are out of my house.

^ Why?

I would like to know why. :P

[judahtics]

i personally believe a person should remain what they are born. unless there is a medical condition of some kind that involves their hormonal system.

[Syvelocin]

But it would be your child's feelings. I don't know, I may just be too nice of a person, but I couldn't bear my children being that unhappy with who they are. I would wait for a couple years just to make sure that they really want that and it isn't just a phase (which I know it isn't, but it's a serious decision anyway, so I'd feel bad if it was just a phase and they didn't actually want that) but I'd definitely let them if they could cover cost. No one deserves that kind of torment, not being able to be on the outside what they are on the inside. I don't need to be transgender to understand that concept.

[judahtics]

and that's why i'd allow hormone blockers to stop puberty. but during puberty, they can't make a proper decision. anyway, my child could do as they wanted and i'd accept them, but they'd have to do it outside of my house. period.

[Angel Androgynous]

What if your child is miserable? They are trying to tell you their true gender while you just ignore their cry? Meanwhile they get bullied at school, they feel helpless, they feel that their body is wrong, they hate it... A parent is supposed to protect their child, and to love and to care for them. Because you wouldn't let them take hormonal pills, their whole life can be ruined. The body that they dream for could just slip out of their fingers. Their voice will be either too high or too low, their shoulders to wide or too slim, their figures either too flat or too curvy... all because of a parent who wouldn't let them make a transition.

Also, do you think hormone blockers and stopping puberty is healthy?

[judahtics]

hormone blockers will prevent those things until they can make that choice out of my house. i won't be ignoring them, i'll be allowing them to postpone puberty until it's appropriate for their desired gender. which won't be in my home.

[kuuliluuk]

As much as I know it is not very healthy to postpone puberty for too long. For many reasons. Social reason - how would other people think of a 18yo boy with high pitched voice and other obviously abnormal features? He is not able to socialise normally I think.
Growth reason - if puberty is blocked for too long time bones continue to grow, it is sex hormones that stop bones growth at certain stage. But if growth is not stopped by sex hormones one gets abnormally long limbs. Thats ugly and irreversible.
Hormonal system would not start up by itself anymore if it has been suspended for too long if it is decided to continue with birth gender. It makes one sterile and dependable on taking hormones.
Thats why I think it is important for transgenders to decide and act at a right time. And that time is certainly not after 18 birthday.

[judahtics]

As much as I know it is not very healthy to postpone puberty for too long. For many reasons. Social reason - how would other people think of a 18yo boy with high pitched voice and other obviously abnormal features? He is not able to socialise normally I think.
Growth reason - if puberty is blocked for too long time bones continue to grow, it is sex hormones that stop bones growth at certain stage. But if growth is not stopped by sex hormones one gets abnormally long limbs. Thats ugly and irreversible.
Hormonal system would not start up by itself anymore if it has been suspended for too long if it is decided to continue with birth gender. It makes one sterile and dependable on taking hormones.
Thats why I think it is important for transgenders to decide and act at a right time. And that time is certainly not after 18 birthday.


i didn't know that. it's a good thing to know. however, it doesn't change my mind on allowing my child to change within my home. i would help them get the proper counseling for sure and that way maybe it would be easier for them when the time became right.