American Atheists Sue Over World Trade Center Cross

[Amnesiac]

An atheist group sued today over the inclusion of cross-shaped steel beams, dubbed the "World Trade Center Cross," in the exhibit at the National September 11th Memorial and Museum.

Jane Everhart, who is part of the atheist's suit, derided the cross as nothing more than "ugly piece of wreckage" that "does not represent anything … but horror and death."

Last weekend the 17-foot cross, discovered in the rubble of 9/11, was given a "ceremonial blessing" by the Rev. Brian Jordan, removed from it's temporary post near St. Peter's Church and lowered 70 feet into its permanent home inside the museum.

But a group identified as American Atheists filed a lawsuit today claiming the inclusion of the cross-shaped steel beams promotes Christianity over all other religions on public property and diminishes the civil rights of non-Christians.

"The Christian community found a piece of rubble that looked like an icon and they deified it. But really 9/11 had nothing to do with Christianity," said American Atheists president Dave Silverman. "They want a monopoly and we don't want that to happen."

"It just so happens that the WTC was made out of T-joints and they found a T-joint," Silverman said. "They put it in the church, kept in the church for years, prayed over it, blessed it. You don't get to do that just in the coincidence that your icon looks like a T-joint."

In a statement to ABCNews.com, the memorial foundation identified the cross as a "symbol of spiritual comfort for the thousands of recovery workers who toiled at ground zero," as well as an "authentic physical reminder" that "tell[s] the story of 9/11 in a way nothing else can."

The atheist group said that they have contacted the 9/11 Memorial and Museum requesting to display their own atheistic memorial next to the steel-shaped cross, possibly in the form of an atom or an American flag, to represent the "500 non-religious Americans" who were "among the victims of the 9/11 attack."

The response, they claim, was "dead space."

Silverman also said that, "We have not heard of any other religious groups at all that have been allowed to put something up."

I don't really know how to react to this one.

[Magus]

Bahahahaha! Really funny shit right there. Think for a moment --- that if we put a crescent, the Christian will retort, and brand it as a "victory" for Muslims aka Terrorist.

[huginnmuninn]

Bahahahaha! Really funny shit right there. Think for a moment --- that if we put a crescent, the Christian will retort, and brand it as a "victory" for Muslims aka Terrorist.

if they did that i would laugh my ass off

[dontcare97]

I knew Dave Silverman's daughter, she went to my school and we were friends. I flipped when I saw her dad on Jon Stewart.

Anyway, I think they have a point. If we found something that would clearly represented Islam, Everyone and there mothers would say no. Even thou Muslim that weren't involved died as well. Remember that mosque they wanted to build up the road from the twin towers? It was protested so hard, but if it was a church everyone would have been saying what a good idea that is. I think that it should be included as long as the memorial pays tribute to all religions, be it Christianity or Buddhism, then its fine. lets go at this with an all or nothing attitude.

[Awesome]

I hate this bullcrap. It's been there for years. They just want attetion and said "Oh look, something to be a drama queen about"

[Tristin.]

only in america..... america is a christian country, let them put up thier cross, as said, its been there for years and if anything, a sign of respect. whats next? lets sue over the sun rising in the east!!!

[Perseus]

only in america..... america is a christian country, let them put up thier cross, as said, its been there for years and if anything, a sign of respect. whats next? lets sue over the sun rising in the east!!!

No, we're not. We're a secular country.

[Maxxie]

Doing this is only going to widen the schism between Christians and Atheists in this country, and we all already know that gap is too wide anyway. You don't go about solving stuff like this by creating animosity.

[Amnesiac]

I don't have a problem with them trying to put up an atheist display at the museum, that's appropriate. The fact that they decided to go and act like complete assholes, however, was completely unnecessary, makes us atheists look bad and hurts their cause.

They really could've worded their statements to the press better. Instead of bashing religion, they could've actually addressed the inequality in religious displays at the museum. The smug holier-than-thou attitude of these people is really just annoying.

[Sugaree]

only in america..... america is a christian country, let them put up thier cross, as said, its been there for years and if anything, a sign of respect. whats next? lets sue over the sun rising in the east!!!

The United States was not founded as a Christian country. We fully intended that church and state would be two completely separate entities and that one would not rule over the other. If someone wants to put a cross there, let them. It won't hurt anyone. I'm just waiting for the person to come upon this thread and say that all atheists are like this.

[iangillan]

only in america..... america is a christian country, let them put up thier cross, as said, its been there for years and if anything, a sign of respect. whats next? lets sue over the sun rising in the east!!!

This statement is a fascist.Same sentence we can found in "Mein Kampf" by Adolph Hitler.Christians are majority in USA,but America is Not christian country.

[JackShephard]

Well it doesn't matter to me about who's right, but I feel like the group should not be able to sue over something like this. It's just wrong to me to get upset over steel beams when so many people lost their lives that day. Personally, I don't think that they care about the rights of other people who are apart of different religions, but are just upset that someone deemed the beams as a cross. Whatever though, people are gonna be people.

[Amnesiac]

Well it doesn't matter to me about who's right, but I feel like the group should not be able to sue over something like this. It's just wrong to me to get upset over steel beams when so many people lost their lives that day. Personally, I don't think that they care about the rights of other people who are apart of different religions, but are just upset that someone deemed the beams as a cross. Whatever though, people are gonna be people.

They're not suing over the steel bars, actually, even though they have a lot to say about them. They're suing over the fact that the museum isn't letting a variety of religions put their own displays up.

[JackShephard]

If a Jew / Muslim / Atheist whatever, wants to put up a display because some beams or something looks like their icon, then the museum should let them. It's like they are being sued because someone was first in saying "hey, those beams look like a cross"

Edit: I see now, yeah, the museum should let other ppl put up displays, as long as they pertain to 9/11

[Zephyr]

It's a cross for chrissake, it's also a simple symbol of respect and remembrance for the dead in this day and age, or at least that's the way I see it. It wasn't put there to antagonize anybody or to shove religious cock down anybody's throat.

[JackShephard]

It's a cross for chrissake, it's also a simple symbol of respect and remembrance for the dead in this day and age, or at least that's the way I see it. It wasn't put there to antagonize anybody or to shove religious cock down anybody's throat.

Exactly. But I don't want people to get the wrong idea. This is just one group of atheists that apparently think it's ok to turn a piece of 9/11 into a lawsuit because the cross is somehow limiting their freedoms. Isn't suing over this limiting the freedom of the people who created the exhibit? Not all athiest groups are like this however. Most I have taked to are very respectful and don't try and make a huge deal over nothing. Same goes for any group with some kind of belief. Some people in that group are assholes and some are not.

[Iris]

I agree with the American Atheist organization's annoyance towards the cross. 9/11 was not a Christian tragedy; it should not be presented as such. If a cross necklace was found in the rubble I'd be all for it in the museum, because that's an actual historical artifact. That cross is made of historical artifacts, but it isn't one itself. It's a little frustrating that they are using historical artifacts to represent a religion, when this is not what 9/11 was about. Those beams should be left alone, or maybe melted down to a symbol that represents the horror and tragedy of the event, not religion.

[Zephyr]

I'm an Atheist and I find their actions annoying. Then again, I've never been an 'in your face' Atheist, lol.

[User Deleted]

Bahahahaha! Really funny shit right there. Think for a moment --- that if we put a crescent, the Christian will retort, and brand it as a "victory" for Muslims aka Terrorist.

I'm christian, but honestly, if they put a big ass crescent in the middle of my town I wouldn't give a shit. No reason to fight over religion... But it has been done so many times, its such a shame. For god sake were fighting over shapes. I would say what has this world come to but we have always been like this. I mean who other than a human would fight about a shape. Really, that's what it is. Don't tell me it was religious, if Christianities symbol was a triangle, someone would be pissing about triangles. Its actually quite funny when you think about it.

[JackShephard]

I agree with the American Atheist organization's annoyance towards the cross. 9/11 was not a Christian tragedy; it should not be presented as such. If a cross necklace was found in the rubble I'd be all for it in the museum, because that's an actual historical artifact. That cross is made of historical artifacts, but it isn't one itself. It's a little frustrating that they are using historical artifacts to represent a religion, when this is not what 9/11 was about. Those beams should be left alone, or maybe melted down to a symbol that represents the horror and tragedy of the event, not religion.

I don't think they are presenting it as a christian tragedy. I just think it's more about the fact that it looks like a cross. If a steel beam somehow twisted itself into a Buda figure, I'd put it in the museum. And people wouldn't bitch about it. Well the christian group might gripe. The point is, someone thought it was significant enough to put in a museum and christianity being so popular and probably dominant, nobody really had an issue with it for a while.

[RoseyCadaver]

It's a cross for chrissake, it's also a simple symbol of respect and remembrance for the dead in this day and age, or at least that's the way I see it. It wasn't put there to antagonize anybody or to shove religious cock down anybody's throat.

This,people need to stop bitching about others beliefs.And so what if they put up a cross?It is a sign of respect for the dead this age.People whine and bitch too much.

On top of that,they're giving atheist a bad name.

[Iris]

I don't think they are presenting it as a christian tragedy. I just think it's more about the fact that it looks like a cross. If a steel beam somehow twisted itself into a Buda figure, I'd put it in the museum. And people wouldn't bitch about it. Well the christian group might gripe. The point is, someone thought it was significant enough to put in a museum and christianity being so popular and probably dominant, nobody really had an issue with it for a while.

This cross isn't just some steel beams anymore. Now it's being revered and blessed by multiple people; it is a religious icon, and the fact that it's huge makes it seem like it's representing a lot more people than it should. If they want to display it in a church or somewhere it belongs than I say go for it. But it has no place in a museum about a tragedy that isn't about religion. To me this cross situation is as ridiculous as, for example, taking a piece of glass that is somehow shaped like a crystal ball from a shop damaged during Kristallnacht and saying it represents the massacres of the Roma (gypsies) by the Nazis. And then trying to put it in a museum about Kristallnacht, as a representation of the Roma. Yes the Roma suffered terribly and that should be recognized, but not with that historical artifact. Similarly, these Christians are taking a historical artifact that is not about Christianity and turning it into a Christian symbol, then trying to place it somewhere it doesn't belong.

The tragedy is concerning humanity. Let's keep religion out of this.

[JackShephard]

This cross isn't just some steel beams anymore. Now it's being revered and blessed by multiple people; it is a religious icon, and the fact that it's huge makes it seem like it's representing a lot more people than it should. If they want to display it in a church or somewhere it belongs than I say go for it. But it has no place in a museum about a tragedy that isn't about religion. To me this cross situation is as ridiculous as, for example, taking a piece of glass that is somehow shaped like a crystal ball from a shop damaged during Kristallnacht and saying it represents the massacres of the Roma (gypsies) by the Nazis. And then trying to put it in a museum about Kristallnacht, as a representation of the Roma. Yes the Roma suffered terribly and that should be recognized, but not with that historical artifact. Similarly, these Christians are taking a historical artifact that is not about Christianity and turning it into a Christian symbol, then trying to place it somewhere it doesn't belong.

The tragedy is concerning humanity. Let's keep religion out of this.

Well ether way, I think it was kind of a dick move to sue over this. Maybe complaining to the museum before going to that extreme or getting public attention would have been better. Your right, it shouldn't be about religion. I assumed that it was like a "and here you can see where two beams come together and resemble a cross" not a "It's a sign from god! D:"

[Iris]

Well ether way, I think it was kind of a dick move to sue over this. Maybe complaining to the museum before going to that extreme or getting public attention would have been better

Yeah suing rests a bit uncomfortably with me too...but unfortunately that's the only way they'll really be heard. I read somewhere that they did complain first but that didn't go anywhere. Suing is the next level. At least they're not rallying at the site or anything. They're trying to keep it civil.

[DoctorWho]

hahaha

[Matt_is_Awesome]

I personally think it should stay there! We as Americans have been throu a terrible event and in that terrible event we found a cross in the rubble. That very cross gives hope to families and workers who have been at the site cleaning for 10 years! Its an inspirational figure and should remain! not to be mean but atheist have been getting there way for to long by not allowing religions in public places and stuff. I say if it bothers them then dont look at it!

[Perseus]

I personally think it should stay there! We as Americans have been throu a terrible event and in that terrible event we found a cross in the rubble. That very cross gives hope to families and workers who have been at the site cleaning for 10 years! Its an inspirational figure and should remain! not to be mean but atheist have been getting there way for to long by not allowing religions in public places and stuff. I say if it bothers them then dont look at it!

It turns it into a Christian tragedy, when not only Christians were affected.

[Angel Androgynous]

I personally think it should stay there! We as Americans have been throu a terrible event and in that terrible event we found a cross in the rubble. That very cross gives hope to families and workers who have been at the site cleaning for 10 years! Its an inspirational figure and should remain! not to be mean but atheist have been getting there way for to long by not allowing religions in public places and stuff. I say if it bothers them then dont look at it!

Uhmm it's on government property.......



and surely you have heard of the separation of church and state....

That and Perseus explained it better than me and I am not gonna clone answers. :P

[JackShephard]

I am not gonna clone answers. :P

Is that a reference to one of my posts? Lol

[Angel Androgynous]

Is that a reference to one of my posts? Lol

Yup. :)

[JackShephard]

Yup. :)

I got some shit for that one. Probably should word my thoughts better next time