If a bullied student kills himself who is reponsible? [Archive]

ShyGuyInChicago

August 3rd, 2011, 02:03 AM

DerBear

August 3rd, 2011, 02:19 AM

ShyGuyInChicago

August 3rd, 2011, 02:23 AM

I dont think anyone should be sued.

Its not right. But all be it the school could of done more its hard to prove bullying as its always one persons word against another

No one should be sued.

why sue for death they should remember there son and not try to get cash out of it

What if the school was negligent or knew the bullying was going on and did nothing about it?

Plus, some people might sue in order to offset the financial burden the kid's death caused.

Here is info on a woman who suing a school because her son committed suicide over being bullied and she alleges that the school did nothing to stop the bullying.

http://www.queerty.com/seth-walshs-mom-nailing-school-for-letting-classmates-bully-him-to-death-20110801/

http://www.bakersfield.com/news/local/x1928174149/Wendy-Walsh-sues-Tehachapi-school-district-over-sons-suicide

Rainstorm

August 3rd, 2011, 02:23 AM

If there was evidence showing that, despite accusations of bullying against the student that committed suicide, the school district failed to properly investigate or attempt to prevent the bullying, then they should be sued for Endangering the Welfare of a Child.

Parents of the bullies can't be at fault unless some of it occurred at the home.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 3rd, 2011, 02:24 AM

Rainstorm

August 3rd, 2011, 02:25 AM

What about suing for wrongful death? I think that suing for wrongful death can also be appropriate.

If enough evidence can back it, yes. The most basic should be endangering the welfare of a child. School is meant to be a safe place to learn. Not a place of kids and teens to feel insulted and picked on to the point of death.

DerBear

August 3rd, 2011, 02:27 AM

Can someone tell me if the school had proof of the bullying?

Angel Androgynous

August 3rd, 2011, 02:28 AM

Tango

August 3rd, 2011, 04:15 AM

There's not much the school can do. Even if they expelled the kid, they can still bully online and outside of school.

No one should be sued. I really think it's the victims fault if they are going to let one persons words get to them that much.

HaydenM

August 3rd, 2011, 04:47 AM

noone should be sued, the school cannot really do anything. If someone wants to bully someone else they will, no matter what a school does.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 3rd, 2011, 10:14 AM

noone should be sued, the school cannot really do anything. If someone wants to bully someone else they will, no matter what a school does.

What if the school knows that the bullying is going on and the school does nothing about it? Sure some bullying can be inevitable but still the school should punish it as harshly as possible.

Unlucky_Leprechaun

August 3rd, 2011, 10:42 AM

It's tragic and I think that bullying always has been happening in schools since schools opened, unfortunately, its a fact of life
Schools can be held accountable if the problem persists but ultimately the person being bullied needs to put a stop to it.
I'm torn about frivolous lawsuits being filed for pain and suffering..etc (where in the hell were you when he/she was being bullied and why didn't you help them when they were alive and now you want $$$ to make up for your "pain".. will $$ bring them back??)
So I guess what I am saying is no one should be sued its a tragic event.

huginnmuninn

August 3rd, 2011, 11:28 AM

i personally think that people need to stop trying to sue others everytime someone has a problem there are a lot of times i hear about people going to sue someone when its just the persons fault for being an idiot. i mean in this case it was a mixture of the schools, the bullys, and the victims but that doesnt mean they should be sued. yes the school probably should have done more, yes the bully shouldnt have been a bully, and yes the kid should probably have reported it and made a big deal about it so that the school would know how bad it was but it happens. the bully probably wont bully again because he/she probably feels responsible. the school will probably be more active towards bullying and be a bit overly critical about it know. and the story might inspire other schools and bullys to reasses what they're doing. but ultimately it was the bullying victims fault because he made the choice to commit suicide.

DerBear

August 3rd, 2011, 12:43 PM

What if the school knows that the bullying is going on and the school does nothing about it? Sure some bullying can be inevitable but still the school should punish it as harshly as possible.

When it comes down to bullying its always he said she said in so many ways

I could go to a teacher and make a hole pack of lies and say this person is bullying me bla bla and sure she would investigate but without proof she cant punish if the school had evidance then yes they could punish the person yes but its always the game of she said he said

SChools have to have reason and evidance to act

Did the boy tell the school or anyone in it if he did not then to be honest its no ones fault

RoseyCadaver

August 3rd, 2011, 12:52 PM

In a way, both the victim and the bully. The bully drove them to it, however, the victim should've reported it. (I know it's hard, but if it gets out of hand, tell someone.) If the victim did tell someone and the school did nothing, then the school should get sued. The bully's parents have little to no control over what their kid says in school, so they shouldn't really be held accountable. (Unless there was some sort of abuse in the family that drove the kid to this.) In other words, it just really depends on the situation. If we compare this to peer pressure, who exactly is held accountable? Let's say your friends want you to steal something and they pester you about it and you give in. Who's fault was it? One might argue that it is the friends' faults, because if it wasn't for them, then you would've not done it. One might say it's your fault for giving in and not walking away or talking to someone about it. I don't really feel strongly one way or another...

This.

It's your choice to kill yourself(coming from someone who has been bullied).Let's take an example like the Columbine shootings.What those two people did was extremely unjust,but,in there defense you could say that the bullies(jocks and popular kids)did drive them to that.Now,in no way did they deserve to die,but they shouldn't have been bulling them like they have.I think it is all social conforming,they were treated like dirt,and that makes you think you're,so they thought they were dirt.Why not bring some people with you?

Anyways,I think it is both the bully and the victim's fault.A victim should be reporting it,a bully shouldn't be bulling.THat's how I feel about it.

HaydenM

August 3rd, 2011, 05:02 PM

What if the school knows that the bullying is going on and the school does nothing about it? Sure some bullying can be inevitable but still the school should punish it as harshly as possible.

I have been bullied for as long as I can remember and the school cannot do anything about it. If they step in the bully gets more aggressive because someone ratted him out. The only way through it is a good mindset :)

ShyGuyInChicago

August 3rd, 2011, 07:33 PM

I have been bullied for as long as I can remember and the school cannot do anything about it. If they step in the bully gets more aggressive because someone ratted him out. The only way through it is a good mindset :)

I think part of that is the school's fault if the school cannot stop the bully from bullying then the bully should be expelled.

Angel Androgynous

August 3rd, 2011, 07:42 PM

This.

It's your choice to kill yourself(coming from someone who has been bullied).Let's take an example like the Columbine shootings.What those two people did was extremely unjust,but,in there defense you could say that the bullies(jocks and popular kids)did drive them to that.Now,in no way did they deserve to die,but they shouldn't have been bulling them like they have.I think it is all social conforming,they were treated like dirt,and that makes you think you're,so they thought they were dirt.Why not bring some people with you?

Anyways,I think it is both the bully and the victim's fault.A victim should be reporting it,a bully shouldn't be bulling.THat's how I feel about it.

Actually, Eric was quite popular. I don't know about Dylan, but he was a great writer. Columbine was horrifying! (The Library massacre made me shudder x)) But the whole Cassie controversy pisses me off....

Wow I got off topic. :c But there is no evidence of whether they were bullied or not, but what they did was... horrible. I feel sorry for Isiah... he had to hear racial slurs before being shot. D:

HaydenM

August 4th, 2011, 04:16 AM

I think part of that is the school's fault if the school cannot stop the bully from bullying then the bully should be expelled.

what is the school meant to do to stop cyber bullying and bullying outside of the school-grounds?

dontcare97

August 4th, 2011, 05:10 AM

I feel that the bully should go to jail Not the parents or the School officials. Sure both parties should have been paying attention but the kids know what they are doing! They made the choice to servery pick on kids, knowing that they were crying adn upset. Those kids could even go up to the casket and laugh at the dead girl laying their. They laughed in her dead face. What kind of psychopathic, twisted thinking is that? these kids are clearly have problems.
We need to stop bullshiting and start doing something about what's going on. Putting it on the news and have a memorial week for all the dead students that killed themselves over bulling isn't going to save another life. If it is truly that sad, which it is, people will start doing something to prevent it. And I'm not talking about some crappy school program with music and dance that tells kids to love and treat each other with respect witht he help of whacky animal friends. I demand laws past in every state to punish everyone who's involved in this kind of harsh, inhuman behavior.The old way of stopping teasing isn't going to do. Do whatever it takes so these boys and girls don't die in vain.

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 05:24 AM

HaydenM

August 4th, 2011, 07:30 AM

don't flame me but derri does have a point. I would rather my life to be shit as than kill myself. I respect my life, I respect all those who have fought and died for me to have the life I have. I respect my family and friends too much to just throw my life away because someone doesn't like me.

Ben Michael

August 4th, 2011, 01:24 PM

The student for not getting help and being a idiot

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 02:38 PM

OH FOR GOD SAKE

The boy was being rather selfish he took his own life not caring about the people he loved or who he hurt theres no proof that the school had to acusse the bully or the school would of done so.

He was not being selfish. He possibly had severe depression from being bullied. Mental illnesses can cause people to do things they would not otherwise even consider. Not to mention that as a teenager he is more likely than an adult to have poor judgment and act with out completely considering the potential consequences of his action.

don't flame me but derri does have a point. I would rather my life to be shit as than kill myself. I respect my life, I respect all those who have fought and died for me to have the life I have. I respect my family and friends too much to just throw my life away because someone doesn't like me.

You simply do not understand what it is like to be suicidal. They have a mental disorder that contributes to their actions. Such disorders can be caused bu severe trauma. That is not to say that all bullied people become suicidal because the vast majority of them do not become suicidal. It is about more than just "someone not liking you." Some people sadly just react more severely to being bullied than other people.

Patchy

August 4th, 2011, 02:55 PM

Thats a really bad attitude in my opinion. "My son had died due being bullied, LETS SUE THE BASTARDS"

In my opinion it should be lesson learnt but end of the day unless the bully was over 18 I think he cant really be accountable for jail time etc.

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 03:33 PM

He was not being selfish. He possibly had severe depression from being bullied. Mental illnesses can cause people to do things they would not otherwise even consider. Not to mention that as a teenager he is more likely than an adult to have poor judgment and act with out completely considering the potential consequences of

I dont care to take ones life because of being bullied is not right he could of told someone but instead his parents will suffer his friends will suffer and the person who bulled him will suffer

To me a lot of pointless people being suffered but hey he commited suicide and family and friends pay the price and so will the school if the school is/was to get sued

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 04:11 PM

I dont care to take ones life because of being bullied is not right he could of told someone but instead his parents will suffer his friends will suffer and the person who bulled him will suffer

To me a lot of pointless people being suffered but hey he commited suicide and family and friends pay the price and so will the school if the school is/was to get sued

Maybe he did tell his parents, but his parents may not have been able to do anything. They may not have been able to afford therapy or able to afford to take him out of the public school and put him in a private school, or maybe they could afford to move to another school district. (In America, generally you can only attend a school if you live the school's district or attendance area.)

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 04:15 PM

Maybe he did tell someone. but his parents may not have been able to do anything. They may not have been able to afford therapy or able to afford to take him out of the public school and put him in a private school, or maybe they could afford to move to another school district. (In America, generally you can only attend a school if you live the school's district or attendance area.)

sure maybe he did tell someone. But you dont need to be carted off to therapy or removed from school if he told the name of the person bullying him they could of dones something but hey he commited suicide instead of dealing with it

HE suffered so he knows what it feels like so why make other suffer

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 04:17 PM

sure maybe he did tell someone. But you dont need to be carted off to therapy or removed from school if he told the name of the person bullying him they could of dones something but hey he commited suicide instead of dealing with it

The boy was bullied by lots of schoolmates, and his parents claim that the school did nothing to stop the bullying.

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 04:25 PM

Then the parents have a bad attitude

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 04:28 PM

Then the parents have a bad attitude

How do they have a bad attitude?

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 04:33 PM

"my son just commited suicide but i think we will sue the school for my sons death" "i am broken inside due to my sons death but at the end of the day a nice fat payment of money will fill that hole"

Tell me what is the logic behind sueing a school. Do they get some form of clousure.

What does that achive

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 04:45 PM

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 04:52 PM

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 04:54 PM

But its not just the school that gets punished now is it?

Serious loss of money to the school means the school cant afford new things so that means that innocent students suffer at a loss

Did you think of that?

The school should have thought of that before they chose to ignore the fact that a student is being bullied.

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 04:59 PM

Did the school know if the kid was being bullied Did they...Did he tell a teacher. From the sounds of it NO. The school cant solve issues if they are not 100% sure they exists

Parents are still selfish in my book and will be in many others

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 05:06 PM

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 05:11 PM

See this link.

http://www.ajc.com/news/parents-sue-district-principal-385837.html

Ok i read the link and the school were informed of the bullying

The problem is that if they sue they will and could possibly ruin education for other students whitch in its right is selfish. They sue the school they achive a snense of justice but is a snesne of justice worth destroying lives of others.

The school made a blunder thats all....why should others suffer for one persons death

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 05:44 PM

Ok i read the link and the school were informed of the bullying

The problem is that if they sue they will and could possibly ruin education for other students whitch in its right is selfish. They sue the school they achive a snense of justice but is a snesne of justice worth destroying lives of others.

The school made a blunder thats all....why should others suffer for one persons death

Just because they sue the school it does not guarantee that the school will not be able to adequately educate their students. Second, this is more than a blunder. The school did nothing to attempt to stop a teen boy from being bullied, and now the boy is dead because the bullies made him feel like life was no longer worth living. The school should pay for that.

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 05:52 PM

ShyGuyInChicago

August 4th, 2011, 05:55 PM

Ok

The school did not handdle it well right? you say they should be punished right?

Dont you think the school has been punished enough 1) the schools rep is seriously damaged 2) the officals at the school have to live with this outcome

Why sue as we know for a fact that the school would losse out on money that could be put to better use...if you say the moeny would be better benfiting 2 people than a 1000 people then thats just wrong

I still the think the parents have every right to sue. The school not take the reasonable steps to prevent the bullying. I can understand the other point about possibly financially ruining the school, but I suppose that depends on how well the school is financially doing and how much money the could lose based on the lawsuit.

DerBear

August 4th, 2011, 06:06 PM

Its a public school right?

Chances are a public school is funded by the USA goverment. That means chances are it will ruin the school or atleast dent it and this has a high chance of hurting the students.

im not saying the school could of done more they should of.

Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light

huginnmuninn

August 4th, 2011, 06:40 PM

I still the think the parents have every right to sue. The school not take the reasonable steps to prevent the bullying. I can understand the other point about possibly financially ruining the school, but I suppose that depends on how well the school is financially doing and how much money the could lose based on the lawsuit.

besides the fact that im biased against 90% of sueings. sueing the school would take away finances that the school needs to provide for the other children

ShyGuyInChicago

August 5th, 2011, 01:58 AM

what is the school meant to do to stop cyber bullying and bullying outside of the school-grounds?

No. The school is only responsible for what happens in school or anything that can reasonably be expected to affect the school.

HaydenM

August 6th, 2011, 12:13 AM

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 12:45 AM

@EASJR1991, If you are saying that some people are just "suicidal" while other people in the exact same circumstances are not then it would be wrong to sue the school. You cannot prevent everybody from getting into a circumstance that someone might turn suicidal because of.

Some people might care so much about their grades that if they fail they will go crazy and kill themselves, should the school just turn that F into an A to keep them happy?

Some people might go off if they are not as good as everybody at something, but you can't get all the other kids to go to the same level.

The school can only do so much, if the person took the conscious decision to kill themselves it is their fault and only their fault.

I think that regardless of whether a student kills himself or not, if the school does not do all they need to do in order protect its students from being bullied then it is acceptable to file a lawsuit.

Second, your analogies are invalid. There is difference between a school turning a blind eye to bullying and a student killing himself because of failing grades.

HaydenM

August 6th, 2011, 01:58 AM

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 02:28 AM

I absolutely hate the american notion that suing makes everything better, it doesn't achieve anything except for taking money from the other students at the school.

If your son / daughter killed them-self, they did it to them-self, not the school, not the bully, THEM.

What would you see done to a bully to "stop" them bullying?

I would stop a bully by making punishments more effective. The bully would be separated from other students for a certain amount of time. He/she would be given a a detention or an in-school suspension or an out-of-school suspension. If the bullying is really severe he would be expelled or sent to a school for children with behavioral problems. If the bully is not sent to a special school or expelled I would require the bully to meet with the school social worker/school psychologist to get him to understand that his behavior is not normal and not acceptable.

Suing can achieve something. It can cause a school to step up in enforcing anti-bullying rules. In addition it compensate people who because of a death/suicide suffered a financial loss such as lost wages, injuries, funeral expenses, medical expenses, and so on.

Sure the person made the final decision the kill themselves, but that does not change the fact that the school should not have ignored the bullying.

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 05:23 AM

I would stop a bully by making punishments more effective. The bully would be separated from other students for a certain amount of time. He/she would be given a a detention or an in-school suspension or an out-of-school suspension. If the bullying is really severe he would be expelled or sent to a school for children with behavioral problems. If the bully is not sent to a special school or expelled I would require the bully to meet with the school social worker/school psychologist to get him to understand that his behavior is not normal and not acceptable.

Suing can achieve something. It can cause a school to step up in enforcing anti-bullying rules. In addition it compensate people who because of a death/suicide suffered a financial loss such as lost wages, injuries, funeral expenses, medical expenses, and so on.

Sure the person made the final decision the kill themselves, but that does not change the fact that the school should not have ignored the bullying.

The fact remains is all they will get is money and it WILL put a strain on the schools resources....also giving the attention of the school social worker or whatever takes it away from kids who really need it.

Bullying is something not worth ending a life over now is it.

I think the news has sold it more to be like this really terrible thing when it is not i beleive the schools statment over the parents as the school seemed more honest and did not try and get the sympthy vote where as the parents did.

huginnmuninn

August 6th, 2011, 01:58 PM

I would stop a bully by making punishments more effective. The bully would be separated from other students for a certain amount of time. He/she would be given a a detention or an in-school suspension or an out-of-school suspension. If the bullying is really severe he would be expelled or sent to a school for children with behavioral problems. If the bully is not sent to a special school or expelled I would require the bully to meet with the school social worker/school psychologist to get him to understand that his behavior is not normal and not acceptable.

Suing can achieve something. It can cause a school to step up in enforcing anti-bullying rules. In addition it compensate people who because of a death/suicide suffered a financial loss such as lost wages, injuries, funeral expenses, medical expenses, and so on.

Sure the person made the final decision the kill themselves, but that does not change the fact that the school should not have ignored the bullying.

ok where is your info that the school ignored the bullying can you please post this?
yes the suing might help the family cover a financial loss but at the cost of harming other students chance of learning is it really worth it seeing as how bad the school systems are in america it might only make it worse.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 02:27 PM

ok where is your info that the school ignored the bullying can you please post this?
yes the suing might help the family cover a financial loss but at the cost of harming other students chance of learning is it really worth it seeing as how bad the school systems are in america it might only make it worse.

Well, I can't prove what happened. But I still think in any case where it can be proven that school did nothing to stop the bullying, the parents still deserve the money.

Since you believe that suing to compensate for financial losses is not worth it and will hurt other students, what would you suggest. Should the parents solicit donations from their community in order to pay for the funeral, counseling, and etc.?

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 03:11 PM

Well, I can't prove what happened. But I still think in any case where it can be proven that school did nothing to stop the bullying, the parents still deserve the money.

Since you believe that suing to compensate for financial losses is not worth it and will hurt other students, what would you suggest. Should the parents solicit donations from their community in order to pay for the funeral, counseling, and etc.?

Ok i will touch on the point about sueing the school...As you said and i do belive that yes the school will sufer a loss that moeny can help funerial costs but at what price....the price of taking away money from a PUBLIC school whithc will make the school suffer

When i was only into my first month of living I could of sued a hosipitial for the fact that as i was born 11 week premature i was required to have tube to give oxygen and food ect and one time due to the fact that as i was very young at the time the changing of the tube annoyed me and one of them cut into my nose causing damage now that was due to the hospitial not doing the job correct. And we had a clear case to sue...But you know what we did not sue and do you know why? Because it was a hospitial they need the money serivce at the hosipital would be affected and its like the school the school needs the moeny for more important things.

Yes i lived he did not but that was his choice...taking the moeny away would be wrong and 2 wrongs dont make a right we know that. The money can be used for better things.

huginnmuninn

August 6th, 2011, 03:11 PM

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 03:15 PM

the parents deserve money because their child commited suicide?

No, they deserve money if they can prove that the school did not adequately address the bullying. They would still deserve it even if their child did not commit suicide.

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 03:28 PM

No, they deserve money if they can prove that the school did not adequately address the bullying. They would still deserve it even if their child did not commit suicide.

If you had read my last post above i think it would be wrong on so many levels ITS JUST MOENY anyone can see that.

Money does not help someone when they are in pain like this and what happens to the rest of the students huh there school suffers

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 03:47 PM

Ok i will touch on the point about sueing the school...As you said and i do belive that yes the school will sufer a loss that moeny can help funerial costs but at what price....the price of taking away money from a PUBLIC school whithc will make the school suffer

When i was only into my first month of living I could of sued a hosipitial for the fact that as i was born 11 week premature i was required to have tube to give oxygen and food ect and one time due to the fact that as i was very young at the time the changing of the tube annoyed me and one of them cut into my nose causing damage now that was due to the hospitial not doing the job correct. And we had a clear case to sue...But you know what we did not sue and do you know why? Because it was a hospitial they need the money serivce at the hosipital would be affected and its like the school the school needs the moeny for more important things.

Yes i lived he did not but that was his choice...taking the moeny away would be wrong and 2 wrongs dont make a right we know that. The money can be used for better things.

I can understand not wanting to sue so that you can protect other people, but what if the hospital did not take the proper precaution again because they thought they could get away with it?

I said this to someone else. I will say it again. I think the parents would still have a case even if the student did not kill themselves because the school still allegedly was negligent. If the school was negligent then they should be sued regardless of what the victim does to himself/herself.

Derri, would you be okay with suing if it could be guaranteed the school would not be financially ruined? What if rather than suing the school, the parents sued the principal or any teachers and school employees who ignored the bullying?

huginnmuninn

August 6th, 2011, 03:50 PM

No, they deserve money if they can prove that the school did not adequately address the bullying. They would still deserve it even if their child did not commit suicide.

so if a kid gets bullied he/she should get money? this doesnt make sense to me because there are many instances where the school cant address the bullying or even if they do address it it doesnt help.
it was ultimately the childs fault that he commited suicide not the schools and not the bulllys. he decided to commit suicide not the school and not the bully.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 03:51 PM

If you had read my last post above i think it would be wrong on so many levels ITS JUST MOENY anyone can see that.

Money does not help someone when they are in pain like this and what happens to the rest of the students huh there school suffers

What happens if their child's death caused them a financial burden such as not being able to afford a funeral or able to afford to see a therapist to help them with their grief? Who should pay that money? Should they request donations from their community?

so if a kid gets bullied he/she should get money? this doesnt make sense to me because there are many instances where the school cant address the bullying or even if they do address it it doesnt help.
it was ultimately the childs fault that he commited suicide not the schools and not the bulllys. he decided to commit suicide not the school and not the bully.

Like I said before the school should be punished only if they did not do everything they can be reasonably be expected to do. If the school did all they could do, then the school is not liable. Also, like I said before, I think that if the school cannot stop the bullying from bullying then the bully should be expelled or sent to a school for kids with behavioral problems.

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 04:02 PM

You keep saying that the school should be punished but its punishing the kids more it is having a knock on affect

The boy was selfish think none of this would of happend in the boy was alive he clearly did not think about anyone but himself.

The parents are looking for someone to blame...The parents have other means of protect the son other than calling the school.

Why do you say theripist do you know that only 2/10 people go to a theripist for grief councling in relation to death

Furnireal cost well he cant get a religous funerial can he? So thats probably going to cost less

the family are thinking in a box and that box only OTHERS ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED MORE WHATS MORE IMPORTANT EDUCATION OF THOUSANDS OF STUDENTS OR A MASSIVE FUNERAL FOR SOMEONE WHO ENDED THERE OWN LIVE

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 04:23 PM

Derri, what about instead of suing the entire school, only the principal and other school staff who ignored the bullying are sued?

Also, there is something called professional liability insurance where is a hospital, school, or other business is sued than the insurance will protect them from having to pay so much money. That could prevent the school from not having enough money to teach its students.

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 04:48 PM

Hold on i read a statment from the news that did say everytime the school did invesitgate the results turned up with either a game of he said she said where the vic and the bully aruge it out and it goes no where or that the school had un satisfactory evidance to convict the bully.

Also suing the individuals would be wrong they made an error at best no one forced the kid to take his life

DoctorWho

August 6th, 2011, 06:40 PM

Well didn't the parents forget about him

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 06:41 PM

Well didn't the parents forget about him

No. where did you get that idea?

Hold on i read a statment from the news that did say everytime the school did invesitgate the results turned up with either a game of he said she said where the vic and the bully aruge it out and it goes no where or that the school had un satisfactory evidance to convict the bully.

Also suing the individuals would be wrong they made an error at best no one forced the kid to take his life

Where did you find that information?

Again like I said before, but people keep ignoring me for some reason, I think the main point of the lawsuit is that the school was allegedly negligent. The suicide might or might not make things worse, but ultimately, the school should be punished if it is proven that they were negligent regardless of whether the victim of bullying kills himself or not. The suicide or lack thereof does not matter much at all. The main issue is that the school was negligent.

huginnmuninn

August 6th, 2011, 08:42 PM

IF the school was negligent then yes they should be punished but taking away the schools money that could go to helping other students isnt the right answer. The school shouldnt be sued it should be the principal, teachers, or whoever let the bullying happen that gets sued not the school.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 08:57 PM

huginnmuninn

August 6th, 2011, 09:10 PM

In one of my previous posts I suggested suing the principal or teachers as an alternative to suing the school.

well i dislike the idea of there being any suings for a suicide. but this ^ seems like a better idea than suing the school

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 09:42 PM

In one of my previous posts I suggested suing the principal or teachers as an alternative to suing the school.

You are aware that would possibly ruin the teachers lives and what about the teachers with faimilys....

Also as for the news report i mentioned i caught a small snip of the report more like a summary on the radio. Anyway the fact is as we all know it is really hard to catch bulliesand we all know that.

In a way i think we need to use this phrease "2 wrongs dont make a right"

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 10:02 PM

You are aware that would possibly ruin the teachers lives and what about the teachers with faimilys....

Also as for the news report i mentioned i caught a small snip of the report more like a summary on the radio. Anyway the fact is as we all know it is really hard to catch bulliesand we all know that.

In a way i think we need to use this phrease "2 wrongs dont make a right"

I do not think that suing is necessarily wrong.

Second, sure it can be hard to catch bullies, but sometimes the bullying is very obvious. Bullies may be open about it if they know they can get away with it.

Third, we cannot always consider people's family when someone is accused of doing something wrong. If we should not sue a person because they would be left unable to support themselves and their family then by that logic we should put people in jail/prison. Nonetheless, I think that if a person is sued and loses and can't take care of himself /herself and his/her family, then that is his/her fault, and he/she should have thought of that before he did whatever it is that he did that resulted in him being sued.

DoctorWho

August 6th, 2011, 10:03 PM

No. where did you get that idea?

Where did you find that information?

Again like I said before, but people keep ignoring me for some reason, I think the main point of the lawsuit is that the school was allegedly negligent. The suicide might or might not make things worse, but ultimately, the school should be punished if it is proven that they were negligent regardless of whether the victim of bullying kills himself or not. The suicide or lack thereof does not matter much at all. The main issue is that the school was negligent.

Because they Didn't notice the bullying they would have made it stop making them bad parents

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 10:17 PM

Because they Didn't notice the bullying they would have made it stop making them bad parents

How do you know that the parents did not stop the bullying? For all we know the parents did tell the school about their son being bullied and the school did nothing.

DerBear

August 6th, 2011, 10:44 PM

I do not think that suing is necessarily wrong.

Second, sure it can be hard to catch bullies, but sometimes the bullying is very obvious. Bullies may be open about it if they know they can get away with it.

Third, we cannot always consider people's family when someone is accused of doing something wrong. If we should not sue a person because they would be left unable to support themselves and their family then by that logic we should put people in jail/prison. Nonetheless, I think that if a person is sued and loses and can't take care of himself /herself and his/her family, then that is his/her fault, and he/she should have thought of that before he did whatever it is that he did that resulted in him being sued.

I think you are taking this rather personal as to be frank you are not seeing the whole picture you just want some kind of justice to be made and sueing is not the answer here

I am now lost complete and utter respect for the parents and the boy i do not care if he is bullied and i really could not care at the point on whitch he killed himself as what was he thinking look at what has happend now a school waits in the peral to decide weather or not they will have money that they need taken away from them and the students will suffer the boys parents are hurt and for what because one stupid boy could not deal with the world. and the fact is the parents must be stupid aswell they could of removed the boy but oh no they kept sending him to a school where he was bullied is that not stupid.

i have nothing left for this boy and his parents lets just move on in the world its histroy a year down the line and only a few people will remember his death

one action has cause this

ShyGuyInChicago

August 6th, 2011, 11:09 PM

I think you are taking this rather personal as to be frank you are not seeing the whole picture you just want some kind of justice to be made and sueing is not the answer here

I am now lost complete and utter respect for the parents and the boy i do not care if he is bullied and i really could not care at the point on whitch he killed himself as what was he thinking look at what has happend now a school waits in the peral to decide weather or not they will have money that they need taken away from them and the students will suffer the boys parents are hurt and for what because one stupid boy could not deal with the world. and the fact is the parents must be stupid aswell they could of removed the boy but oh no they kept sending him to a school where he was bullied is that not stupid.

i have nothing left for this boy and his parents lets just move on in the world its histroy a year down the line and only a few people will remember his death

one action has cause this

Just because the boy killed himself it does not mean he was stupid. It could be possible that he did not understand how because he has autism (Apserger's I believe), but I do not know much about autism so do not quote me on that. He just developed a severe mental disorder from being relentlessly bullied, harassed, and tormented. His parents may not be stupid either. They probably sent him to school because they had no option. The probably could not afford to put him a private or the private school did not accommodate people with any form of autism (In America public schools have to accommodate people with disabilities, but private school do not have that same obligation.) Also they may not have been able to home-school him or move to another school district so that he could attend another public school. If you have not noticed, I said all of this stuff before. I will also say this again. If the parents accusations can be proven, then the school should pay the price. I would feel the same way even if the boy did not kill himself because the school was allegedly negligent. The most important thing is that the school was allegedly negligent and allegedly did nothing to stop the bullying.

DoctorWho

August 7th, 2011, 01:29 AM

How do you know that the parents did not stop the bullying? For all we know the parents did tell the school about their son being bullied and the school did nothing.

Yes but how would you know they didn't they could have not known and let everything happen then sue the school for all we know they could have know not do anything about it then sue the school for money a lot of possibilitys are possible right not

ShyGuyInChicago

August 7th, 2011, 01:34 AM

Yes but how would you know they didn't they could have not known and let everything happen then sue the school for all we know they could have know not do anything about it then sue the school for money a lot of possibilitys are possible right not

Well then the school would have to prove that the whole situation is the parents fault, just like the parents have to prove that it was the school's fault.

DerBear

August 7th, 2011, 06:53 AM

Just because the boy killed himself it does not mean he was stupid. It could be possible that he did not understand how because he has autism (Apserger's I believe), but I do not know much about autism so do not quote me on that. He just developed a severe mental disorder from being relentlessly bullied, harassed, and tormented. His parents may not be stupid either. They probably sent him to school because they had no option. The probably could not afford to put him a private or the private school did not accommodate people with any form of autism (In America public schools have to accommodate people with disabilities, but private school do not have that same obligation.) Also they may not have been able to home-school him or move to another school district so that he could attend another public school. If you have not noticed, I said all of this stuff before. I will also say this again. If the parents accusations can be proven, then the school should pay the price. I would feel the same way even if the boy did not kill himself because the school was allegedly negligent. The most important thing is that the school was allegedly negligent and allegedly did nothing to stop the bullying.

You dont need to send the kid to another school now do you. I ask my mum what she would of done if i was ever bullied at school and if i told the school and they did nothing then she would withdraw me from school and refuse to send me into the school---> would surely get the schools attention----> this would not be hard

Why do the parents not just simply remember there child and how nice he was instead of going through this

DoctorWho

August 7th, 2011, 02:19 PM

Well then the school would have to prove that the whole situation is the parents fault, just like the parents have to prove that it was the school's fault.

Yes but which one is the real answer huh? Exactly you don't know neither do I so someone has to prove a point here.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 7th, 2011, 02:51 PM

You dont need to send the kid to another school now do you. I ask my mum what she would of done if i was ever bullied at school and if i told the school and they did nothing then she would withdraw me from school and refuse to send me into the school---> would surely get the schools attention----> this would not be hard

Why do the parents not just simply remember there child and how nice he was instead of going through this

It could be possible that the parents are doing this to honor their son's memory. They might be suing the school to ensure that the school takes bullying seriously in the future in hopes that students will not be bullied as severely and perhaps another teen at the school will not take his/her own life because of being bullied.

DoctorWho

August 7th, 2011, 03:04 PM

It could be possible that the parents are doing this to honor their son's memory. They might be suing the school to ensure that the school takes bullying seriously in the future in hopes that students will not be bullied as severely and perhaps another teen at the school will not take his/her own life because of being bullied.

Ya but why sue the school when its your son who took his life because the parents weren't paying enough attention to his emotions

ShyGuyInChicago

August 7th, 2011, 03:52 PM

Ya but why sue the school when its your son who took his life because the parents weren't paying enough attention to his emotions

First, the school was allegedly negligent; they school has not to my knowledge. Second, it could be possible that the parents were unable to help their son; they might not have been able to afford counseling for him. Or maybe thy could not afford to home school him or afford to put in a private school or afford to move to another school district so that he could attend another public school. I said all of this before to someone who said that the parents should have been more active in protecting their son.

HaydenM

August 7th, 2011, 04:56 PM

First, the school was allegedly negligent; they school has not to my knowledge. Second, it could be possible that the parents were unable to help their son; they might not have been able to afford counseling for him. Or maybe thy could not afford to home school him or afford to put in a private school or afford to move to another school district so that he could attend another public school. I said all of this before to someone who said that the parents should have been more active in protecting their son.

Maybe the school could not afford to increase staff to be able to spot bullies, maybe the school could not afford to have teachers looking out for each and every student, maybe the school could not afford an entire team to council theses people.

The sword cuts both ways.

DoctorWho

August 7th, 2011, 05:33 PM

First, the school was allegedly negligent; they school has not to my knowledge. Second, it could be possible that the parents were unable to help their son; they might not have been able to afford counseling for him. Or maybe thy could not afford to home school him or afford to put in a private school or afford to move to another school district so that he could attend another public school. I said all of this before to someone who said that the parents should have been more active in protecting their son.

Neither had knowledge to this so its both school and parents fault meaning that the parents should not sue the school if they had no intel about this so its both's fault

ShyGuyInChicago

August 7th, 2011, 05:51 PM

Neither had knowledge to this so its both school and parents fault meaning that the parents should not sue the school if they had no intel about this so its both's fault

How do you know that the parents had no knowledge of what their son went through.

Maybe the school could not afford to increase staff to be able to spot bullies, maybe the school could not afford to have teachers looking out for each and every student, maybe the school could not afford an entire team to council theses people.

The sword cuts both ways.

If that is the case, then the school needs to be able to prove it.

Neither had knowledge to this so its both school and parents fault meaning that the parents should not sue the school if they had no intel about this so its both's fault

Also, I made a mistake in my post. I meant to say that as far as I know the school has not claimed that the parents were in anyway neglectful or that the parents did not know that their son was being bullied until it was too late.

Sporadica

August 7th, 2011, 11:51 PM

Im going to sound like a jerk here but I really think that suicide is an act of cowardice. I think the victims parents failed by not turning their kid into a tough enough person to stand up for themselves and I think the bully's parents failed in raising their kid not to be a bully.

there's my 2 cents

TheMatrix

August 7th, 2011, 11:57 PM

HeartCoreHannah

August 8th, 2011, 12:06 AM

For the past five years I was bullied in school. My mom didn't find out until the past February and when she found out, I was at the lowest point I have ever been. When she found out, she called the school all three principles said that their school had no bullying problem. She called the BOE. She called the State Police and she finally called the state BOE. Nothing was ever done to the kids. My mom even printed out pages and pages of what they said to me online. Threatening my life and calling me names. And it was all because I had colored hair and piercings. Anyways, I ended up trying to kill myself and I was committed into the hospital and was under suicide watch for two weeks because of what all these kids said and did to me. And even after I was put into the hospital nothing was done to the kids, teachers, or principles. My mom is now suing everyone she called and everyone that told her they couldn't help me.

For all of you saying people are selfish for committing suicide I disagree and here is why: If you've never been bullied or picked on you don't know how it feels. You don't know what it's like waking up every day wondering what these people will do to you next, how bad it will hurt, and how bad you'll be humiliated. You don't know what it's like to go to sleep every night praying to not wake up in the morning or wishing you would get sick my morning and not have to go to school to be tortured. And you don't know what it's like to be literally screaming and crying for help and everyone is just stepping over you. The authorities who are suppose to be doing their job and keeping you safe saying "sorry, this is out of our hands we can't help you." Being in misery every single day of your life gets old after a while. And whether you have family that loves you or not, you stop caring.

Sorry it's so long.

DerBear

August 8th, 2011, 04:44 AM

You're right, you did sound like a jerk.
What if that person had no parents(that they knew)? Parents died too early?
What then?

Matrix Why is it you always feel the need to "pick" word from word obvoiusly he should of said something on the lines or Parents or guardian.

Now I will also like to add that if anyone commits sucide over bullying is well rather not right in the head as to take your own life over bullying when as we all no at some point in our lives we will be bullied. Its something that you do have to learn how to deal with without going overboard

I really do think in this case the school and bullies and others involved will of learned a lesson by the event itself. So sueing is not going to do anything but damage the school and the kids....

DoctorWho

August 8th, 2011, 09:55 AM

How do you know that the parents had no knowledge of what their son went through.

If that is the case, then the school needs to be able to prove it.

Also, I made a mistake in my post. I meant to say that as far as I know the school has not claimed that the parents were in anyway neglectful or that the parents did not know that their son was being bullied until it was too late.

Because then they would have done something about it and not sue the bully's parents who had no idea either or the school which didn't pay enough attention

ShyGuyInChicago

August 8th, 2011, 03:31 PM

Because then they would have done something about it and not sue the bully's parents who had no idea either or the school which didn't pay enough attention

What if the parents knew, but could not do anything like being unable to afford counseling, or home school, or private school, or moving away?

DoctorWho

August 8th, 2011, 07:05 PM

What if the parents knew, but could not do anything like being unable to afford counseling, or home school, or private school, or moving away?

So your saying that if the parents knew and just ignored it because they couldn't pay for another school while this is in a huge district and then they sue for money

ShyGuyInChicago

August 8th, 2011, 07:13 PM

So your saying that if the parents knew and just ignored it because they couldn't pay for another school while this is in a huge district and then they sue for money

No. The parents probably did not ignore it. They probably could not do anything for the reasons I just said. Also, as the parents claim the school did nothing to stop the bullying; they may have told the school about their son, and the school still did nothing. Also, the parents probably could not send their child to another school in the district because the school district would not allow them; School districts will require student to only attend certain schools within the district based on how close they live to the school.

DoctorWho

August 8th, 2011, 07:31 PM

No. The parents probably did not ignore it. They probably could not do anything for the reasons I just said. Also, as the parents claim the school did nothing to stop the bullying; they may have told the school about their son, and the school still did nothing. Also, the parents probably could not send their child to another school in the district because the school district would not allow them; School districts will require student to only attend certain schools within the district based on how close they live to the school.

Yes but they could have done something about it not just sit there like blundering fools and let those bullys beat him. God whats wrong with people these days and then you go and accuse the kid of commiting suicide and making it all his fault. It's never his fault of course he was being a little idiotic but that dosen't stop it from being the parents fault for not listining

high-school108

August 8th, 2011, 07:34 PM

i hate bullys they should stop being ass holes and stop and get on with their lifes

ShyGuyInChicago

August 8th, 2011, 07:37 PM

Yes but they could have done something about it not just sit there like blundering fools and let those bullys beat him. God whats wrong with people these days and then you go and accuse the kid of commiting suicide and making it all his fault. It's never his fault of course he was being a little idiotic but that dosen't stop it from being the parents fault for not listining

What if their parents told the school about their son being bullied over and over and over again? What if they told the school every time their son told them he was being bullied or every time they suspected that he was being bullied? What if the parents did all of that and the school still did nothing?

DoctorWho

August 8th, 2011, 07:50 PM

i hate bullys they should stop being ass holes and stop and get on with their lifes

Yes but the bullys probably have it worse if you have ever thought about that

What if their parents told the school about their son being bullied over and over and over again? What if they told the school every time their son told them he was being bullied or every time they suspected that he was being bullied? What if the parents did all of that and the school still did nothing?

And what if they didn't what if the school was unaware cause the bullys did it in a secluded spot with no people around

ShyGuyInChicago

August 9th, 2011, 12:14 AM

Yes but the bullys probably have it worse if you have ever thought about that

And what if they didn't what if the school was unaware cause the bullys did it in a secluded spot with no people around

They should be aware if the parents told the school.

Also, even if the parents share some of the blame, there can still be a case, the parents' supposed fault would not always mean that school would win the case if the school was negligent.

kuuliluuk

August 9th, 2011, 04:58 AM

Last year, I read a news story where a teen boy killed himself because he was bullied and his parents are suing the principal, alleging that the school ignored the bullying.

I read some comments and some people are saying that they feel that the parents of the bullies should be sued. Some feel that the parents of the suicide victim should have been more assertive in protecting their son. Some feel that the school should be held accountable.

What do you think?

Having been bullied, I think for teacher it is very difficult to see bullying. They of course notice that, but they almost never see any case of bullying. They do not feel that atmosphere that is created against them who get bullied. Teachers can not stop bullying. That's for sure. How could they? They even couldn't point fingers if there is no evidence of physical contact and if bullying takes place in a facebook or elsewhere! Only thing they can do is to bring up the case and suggest solutions like changing the school or class. Being realistic, it is not possible to force anybody to love somebody. How could you imagine that? That negative atmosphere will not disappear even if nothing physical happens. It is best to change environment I am sure.
Also there is no point to sue parents of bullies. They do not know anything what their children do at the school. So how could they possibly know about bullying?

Now what is the solution? Sometimes these who get bullied deny it even for themselves until they just could not withstand it. Then if teacher or parent asks the reply would be always "I'm okay". Still parents an teachers see other symptoms. And these MUST NOT be ignored!

DoctorWho

August 9th, 2011, 12:49 PM

They should be aware if the parents told the school.

Also, even if the parents share some of the blame, there can still be a case, the parents' supposed fault would not always mean that school would win the case if the school was negligent.

But they did not tell now did they otherwise it would have stopped

judahtics

August 9th, 2011, 12:50 PM

no one can force suicide. therefore, it's the fault of the one who decided to kill them self.

DoctorWho

August 9th, 2011, 01:06 PM

no one can force suicide. therefore, it's the fault of the one who decided to kill them self.

Yes but if you think about its more than his fault because he wass bullied into killing himself so have u thought about it

judahtics

August 9th, 2011, 01:07 PM

huginnmuninn

August 9th, 2011, 01:11 PM

Yes but if you think about its more than his fault because he wass bullied into killing himself so have u thought about it

yes but if you think about it his parents concieved him and if he wasnt born he wouldnt have been bullied and wouldnt have commited suicide

or it could be the the bullys parents fault for not stoping him from bullying

or it could be a bunch of other peoples fault for various things that lead to him commiting suicide

noone made him commit suicide so its his choice and noone elses. yes they might have contributed to the choice but ultimately he chose to commit suicide

DarkHorses

August 9th, 2011, 01:15 PM

I don't believe that they should be held responsible. As much as I am against bullying, I don't find the bullies at fault for a person's suicide. Instead, I blame adults and teachers for not educating kids on how to handle bullying in healthier ways. The truth is that bullying probably never will stop, and if you are a principal or a teacher it's hard to make sure bullying never happens. But you can educate kids and be aware that it is happening in order to prevent someone from physical harm such as suicide.

Most of the time bullies are going through difficulties of their own, and bullying is their way to cope. That doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean that they should be blamed for a suicide. They often don't realize the seriousness of what they are doing, and without the intent to actually drive the person to suicide, they are not to blame.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 9th, 2011, 04:12 PM

yes but if you think about it his parents concieved him and if he wasnt born he wouldnt have been bullied and wouldnt have commited suicide

or it could be the the bullys parents fault for not stoping him from bullying

or it could be a bunch of other peoples fault for various things that lead to him commiting suicide

noone made him commit suicide so its his choice and noone elses. yes they might have contributed to the choice but ultimately he chose to commit suicide

Sure, the boy is responsible for his suicide. But even if he did not kill himself, the school should still be sued if they were negligent. The school's alleged negligence is the most important thing.

huginnmuninn

August 9th, 2011, 05:18 PM

Sure, the boy is responsible for his suicide. But even if he did not kill himself, the school should still be sued if they were negligent. The school's alleged negligence is the most important thing.

if the school is negligent then they should have someone come in make neccesary changes to make sure this wont happen again. if the school doesnt have the necessary resources to take care of the students then the school should receive funding. as ive stated before suing the school would hurt the other students more than it would help the parents of the child.

CaptainObvious

August 9th, 2011, 05:31 PM

Sure, the boy is responsible for his suicide. But even if he did not kill himself, the school should still be sued if they were negligent. The school's alleged negligence is the most important thing.

did the schools negligence hold a gun to the boy's head and shoot him?

nope. ultimately, the most important thing is the decision a given person makes to end their life. and ultimately, while we should endeavor to always have an environment that would never make anyone want to consider suicide, anyone who does is making a decision entirely their own, and it rests at their feet.

this is why on certain levels i find many anti-bullying programs to be stupid. changing bullies' behavior is important, but what's more important is making kids understand that no matter how horrible any number of people are to you, nobody can make you feel bad without your consent. victim empowerment would serve both purposes far better than attempting to change behavior that is in many ways an indelible part of children and teenagers.

Tiggz

August 9th, 2011, 07:28 PM

i dont no all the details of wat happened but i would think the parents of the bullies for sure should be hailed responsible

DoctorWho

August 9th, 2011, 10:53 PM

suicide is a choice. i don't care how bullied they are. there is no one forcing them to kill them self. if they were my friend i'd be sad, but i'd blame no one but the person who committed suicide because it's no one else's fault.

Maybe it's a choice but have you ever thought that maybe he did it out of the fact that he would suffer more on earth then in death and yes they have rehab he could of had help

ShyGuyInChicago

August 9th, 2011, 11:52 PM

did the schools negligence hold a gun to the boy's head and shoot him?

nope. ultimately, the most important thing is the decision a given person makes to end their life. and ultimately, while we should endeavor to always have an environment that would never make anyone want to consider suicide, anyone who does is making a decision entirely their own, and it rests at their feet.

this is why on certain levels i find many anti-bullying programs to be stupid. changing bullies' behavior is important, but what's more important is making kids understand that no matter how horrible any number of people are to you, nobody can make you feel bad without your consent. victim empowerment would serve both purposes far better than attempting to change behavior that is in many ways an indelible part of children and teenagers.

Like I said, the suicide does not really matter or not. The school was allegedly negligent. That is what matters. Would you support such a lawsuit even if the boy did not kill himself. Also, I can understand the importance of teaching children to have high self-esteem and resilience, but I think changing. But I think that changing the behaviors of bullies is more important and that focusing too much on the victims can be considered tantamount to victim blaming and suggesting that victims are responsible for how people treat them and responsible for being angry or depressed from being bullied. We should not and must not accept the fact that certain people will harm others. Bullying and other forms of violence do not have to be inevitable.

if the school is negligent then they should have someone come in make neccesary changes to make sure this wont happen again. if the school doesnt have the necessary resources to take care of the students then the school should receive funding. as ive stated before suing the school would hurt the other students more than it would help the parents of the child.

If the students are hurt by the school losing a lawsuit, that is very bad. However, I honestly feel that would be the school's fault. I know this sounds bad, but the school should have thought of that before they were negligent in allegedly ignoring the bullying.

judahtics

August 9th, 2011, 11:56 PM

i dont no all the details of wat happened but i would think the parents of the bullies for sure should be hailed responsible

are you serious? don't you ever do things after your parents have told you not to? really? think about it. a parent can't control everything their child does. back when, parents had more rights and could actually discipline, which helped, but nowadays, look at a kid wrong and it's abuse.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 02:34 AM

It is sort of a mixed deal. Both the victim and the bullies fault. Like almost everything in life, there is a grey line.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 02:36 AM

i see most things in black and white. i think grey area is really a cop out.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 02:39 AM

i see most things in black and white. i think grey area is really a cop out.

I see almost nothing in black and white. You are not in the positive extreme, you are not safe. I don't see the grey area as a cop out because the subjects fault or not the bully needs to be punished.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 02:42 AM

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 02:50 AM

and to what extreme should that bully be punished? especially if he was within his constitutional rights of free speech? if someone commits suicide, it is no ones fault, but their own. if they couldn't deal with it, they should have pursued help until something was done. even if that meant having them self committed due to suicidal tendencies. they didn't use the resources provided, therefore, it's their fault.

Well for bullying alone (after the suicide) I suggest the rest of the year suspension from schooling, and expulsion from that specific school, so there is a start point. The rest varies upon how specifically they bullied them.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 02:56 AM

Well for bullying alone (after the suicide) I suggest the rest of the year suspension from schooling, and expulsion from that specific school, so there is a start point. The rest varies upon how specifically they bullied them.

and what if the bullying was happening outside of school? was off school grounds, the school no longer has rights to punish a student. plus, how can it be proven that the bullying was even taking place? how can you take away someone's constitutional rights? you wouldn't want to be told you can't tell someone to shut up right? because that's bullying in a sense. and if there is a no tolerance bullying policy, you'd have to be expelled for that just as well as someone who you claim can cause suicide. there wouldn't be a difference. it would all be the same. bullying is bullying. from calling someone a fag to telling someone to shut up in an intimating manner.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:00 AM

and what if the bullying was happening outside of school? was off school grounds, the school no longer has rights to punish a student. plus, how can it be proven that the bullying was even taking place? how can you take away someone's constitutional rights? you wouldn't want to be told you can't tell someone to shut up right? because that's bullying in a sense. and if there is a no tolerance bullying policy, you'd have to be expelled for that just as well as someone who you claim can cause suicide. there wouldn't be a difference. it would all be the same. bullying is bullying. from calling someone a fag to telling someone to shut up in an intimating manner.

Is this not ironic, you said you see in black and white, but this clearly depicts how many variables there are and you see it. Making these decisions is hard, and you really need to investigate to come to a decision. But to save everyone trouble and pain, people shouldn't kill themselves, they need to alert others. At the same time if a bully picks an emotionally unstable individual it is a shared fault, one for lack of logical decision, one for just being a jackass.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:04 AM

Is this not ironic, you said you see in black and white, but this clearly depicts how many variables there are and you see it. Making these decisions is hard, and you really need to investigate to come to a decision. But to save everyone trouble and pain, people shouldn't kill themselves, they need to alert others. At the same time if a bully picks an emotionally unstable individual it is a shared fault, one for lack of logical decision, one for just being a jackass.

no, i see it simply black and white. it's no ones fault but the kid who killed them self, plain and simple. what i'm saying is, a grey area wouldn't work. i would have a black and white standard. you bully your gone or don't and stay. that's black and white.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:07 AM

no, i see it simply black and white. it's no ones fault but the kid who killed them self, plain and simple. what i'm saying is, a grey area wouldn't work. i would have a black and white standard. you bully your gone or don't and stay. that's black and white.

That is major generalization and warping of story O.O At least the last sentence related to the first sentence.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:09 AM

That is major generalization and warping of story O.O At least the last sentence related to the first sentence.

i believe all people should be held to the same standards based on certain criteria, like age, mental status, and other things.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:19 AM

i believe all people should be held to the same standards based on certain criteria, like age, mental status, and other things.

Yes, and if the person bullied is emotionally sensitive I believe it is more the bullies fault than otherwise. But basing it on criteria... is grey area.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:21 AM

no it's not. it's a set standard. anytime you have a set standard, there is no grey area. a grey area is where there is no set standard and each situation is judged on it's own conditions.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:29 AM

no it's not. it's a set standard. anytime you have a set standard, there is no grey area. a grey area is where there is no set standard and each situation is judged on it's own conditions.

As I was taught grey area is basically when an outcome has various influences and no one factor, be one a larger factor or not, can be the single cause of the outcome. For example, angry birds, each bird contributes to the ultimate fall of the pigs. No one bird (depending on the level) is the one to take down the team of pigs. Same concept but instead factors would be emotional status, bullying intensity, ect.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:30 AM

As I was taught grey area is basically when an outcome has various influences and no one factor, be one a larger factor or not, can be the single cause of the outcome. For example, angry birds, each bird contributes to the ultimate fall of the pigs. No one bird (depending on the level) is the one to take down the team of pigs. Same concept but instead factors would be emotional status, bullying intensity, ect.

hilarious but also not true. i did enjoy reading it though. lol

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:32 AM

hilarious but also not true. i did enjoy reading it though. lol

Lol, what wasn't true then? I love learning new things, do tell, do tell.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:37 AM

Lol, what wasn't true then? I love learning new things, do tell, do tell.

you aren't talking about a grey area. you are talking about pressure. eventually you put enough pressure on a branch it will snap, but here's the difference, a branch can't get help and a person can. a grey area is when there is no settled standard.

kuuliluuk

August 10th, 2011, 03:42 AM

suicide is a choice. i don't care how bullied they are. there is no one forcing them to kill them self. if they were my friend i'd be sad, but i'd blame no one but the person who committed suicide because it's no one else's fault.

I disagree. There are very few choices in our lives. If you think you have a choice it really isn't a choice. So, if someone makes you feel miserable, is it your free choice to feel miserable or it isn't a choice? If you like girl or guy is it your free choice or is it just a coincidence of pleasurable features meeting desire?
I have felt myself so miserable that I hated myself to the point of suicide attempt I almost didn't survive. If you hate somebody so much you wish to kill that being, is it really a choice? That desire I mean? Noone isn't a great choice maker when desires overwhelm your mind.
The only true choice you can make is when you wake up in the moning and decide which leg to move first :D

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:45 AM

we always have at least two choices. to live or die. to go or stop. to run or walk (in some cases. i have leg braces, so i can walk or use a wheelchair). you can choose to go to school or ditch. argue or agree. there are thousands. we always have choices. always.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:48 AM

you aren't talking about a grey area. you are talking about pressure. eventually you put enough pressure on a branch it will snap, but here's the difference, a branch can't get help and a person can. a grey area is when there is no settled standard.

Okay, so I have always been bad at analogies. But my general point was whenever person A contributes to the outcome of person B's status, yes person B can get help and it is less person A's fault although what person B did was wrong suicide or not. Add emotional instability in person A when they are bullied they are too disturbed to add logic to a situation therefor it is almost entirely person B's fault. Although now person A has a friend, person C, and they see emotionally unstable person A being bullied by mean ol' person B they need to report it, so it is the shared fault of person B and C which is grey area. Now the first situation it is the fault of person A as you say, but in the second one person B may not know they are so sensitive, so although it is still their fault it is less of anyones fault. But there is also what person B was doing (bullying) is wrong anyway, so weather liable for their death or not, they deserve punishment.

Sorry that's so long and hard to keep track of.

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 03:50 AM

i'm not saying that bullying doesn't contribute, i'm saying the ultimate choice is that of the person who committed suicide.

that still doesn't leave a grey area though, seeing as the choice was still that of the individual choosing suicide.

i need to sleep now. we can finish this tomorrow or something.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 03:53 AM

judahtics

August 10th, 2011, 08:36 PM

Contribution = grey area. That's how I see it. anyways G'night.

there contributing still doesn't create a grey area. it was still the choice of the person to kill them self.

User Deleted

August 10th, 2011, 11:02 PM

there contributing still doesn't create a grey area. it was still the choice of the person to kill them self.

But by the influence of the bully. Say the bully had been kind (or even ignored them), they wouldn't have killed them self. It is only in black in white when you contort the story and dispose of the details.

DoctorWho

August 12th, 2011, 07:29 PM

are you serious? don't you ever do things after your parents have told you not to? really? think about it. a parent can't control everything their child does. back when, parents had more rights and could actually discipline, which helped, but nowadays, look at a kid wrong and it's abuse.

The parents should obviously be held responsibal for this death after all they had no idea what was going on so stop blaming it on a kid who had no other choice unless he wanted to suffer while the parents sat there like idiots doing nothing that could help this innocent boy

judahtics

August 12th, 2011, 07:34 PM

DoctorWho

August 12th, 2011, 10:06 PM

ok so every time a kid something wrong the parents should be held responsible. i'll remember that. if a kid gets in a fight, it's the parents fault. if a kid gets hit by a train, it's the parents fault. if a kid gets in an accident and someone dies, it's the parents fault.

So your saying the kid committed suicide because he wanted to and now you are taking the fact that the parents are all responsible for the death of this boy too far as I clearly state I said that this was the parents fault for being lazy and yes it kinda is the parents fault

DerBear

August 13th, 2011, 12:00 AM

I dont think school will be sued as it comes down to this

is/was there evidance of the bullying

For example I could go to my school and for the next 7 weeks i could say i am being bullied and the school would ask around and talk to students and what not and after all that if they could not prove i was being bullied they could not and would not punish the people who i said were bullying me. So it comes down to who do you beleive.

its hard to catch bullies and sueing wont help

DoctorWho

August 13th, 2011, 02:13 AM

Ya and if the school/parents knew they would have done something to stop it instead judahtics blames it all on the suicider when he took his life to end suffering

HaydenM

August 13th, 2011, 03:33 AM

the bullying is undeniable, it happened, but it didn't kill the boy. Bullying didn't load the bullet, cock the gun and pull the trigger. He did it. Sure the world was crap for him but he is the only reason he died.

judahtics

August 13th, 2011, 03:37 AM

So your saying the kid committed suicide because he wanted to and now you are taking the fact that the parents are all responsible for the death of this boy too far as I clearly state I said that this was the parents fault for being lazy and yes it kinda is the parents fault

i have yet to meet a kid who does everything the parent said. i'm sure you've been told, don't do this, and continued anyhow. does this whole parents are responsible only come into play when it's not personal and close to home?

Roach

August 13th, 2011, 04:50 AM

I think it it was a culmination of the student and the bully the school and the parents but if anyone should get any kind of punishment its the bully maybe jail for manslaughter

HaydenM

August 13th, 2011, 06:17 AM

I think it it was a culmination of the student and the bully the school and the parents but if anyone should get any kind of punishment its the bully maybe jail for manslaughter

but by that regard if I say to somebody in an honest way that I don't like their hair and they kill themselves, should I go up for manslaughter, because both times what "we" did inadvertently killed somebody.

LaxFB3

August 13th, 2011, 04:29 PM

Everything rests on the bully. All schools have rules against it, but no matter how strictly these are enforced, the school cannot completely eliminate it. The bully deserves no sympathy and deserves to be harshly punished. Causing someone to commit suicide is just as bad as murder, and should be treated as such

HaydenM

August 13th, 2011, 08:21 PM

Adam, I have to disagree there, I have been bullied for my entire schooling and I haven't topped myself. Why, because I deal with it in a productive way and don't take the cowardly option of killing myself. The bully should be punished for harassment, not for anything related to the suicide of the boy. The boy killed himself, noone made him do it.

DoctorWho

August 14th, 2011, 12:57 AM

Yes parents can be the problem maybe he tried to explain and they didn't listen kinda like you

judahtics

August 14th, 2011, 08:13 PM

Modus Operandi

August 14th, 2011, 09:44 PM

These people can sue all they want, but they're ultimately hurting themselves. America's current lawsuit-happy public (especially when it comes to kids) has created a climate where schools are actually afraid to reprimand or punish students for fear of getting sued on various trumped-up grounds. It's likely that the school chose not to address the bullying for that very reason, which is incredibly unfortunate. Also, it seems like the parents feel guilty about their son's death, so they're attempting to assign blame elsewhere.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 14th, 2011, 10:19 PM

maybe we should blame the parents of the kid who killed himself, for not seeing the depression and acting on it. they should be held responsible for not going to the school and demanding something be done! they should also be responsible for not watching their childs every action.

I said this before to someone who said something similar. It could be possible that the parents constantly complained to the school, and the school did nothing. Also, there is the possibility that the parents could not afford to give their son counseling, or afford to move to another school district, or afford to enroll their son in a private school, or afford to home school him.

DerBear

August 14th, 2011, 10:22 PM

These people can sue all they want, but they're ultimately hurting themselves. America's current lawsuit-happy public (especially when it comes to kids) has created a climate where schools are actually afraid to reprimand or punish students for fear of getting sued on various trumped-up grounds. It's likely that the school chose not to address the bullying for that very reason, which is incredibly unfornate. Also, it seems like the parents feel guilty about their son's death, so they're attempting to assign blame elsewhere.

agreed

Infidelitas

August 14th, 2011, 10:40 PM

It depend what else is going on in their life, but bullying would be a major contributor.

judahtics

August 14th, 2011, 10:43 PM

I said this before to someone who said something similar. It could be possible that the parents constantly complained to the school, and the school did nothing. Also, there is the possibility that the parents could not afford to give their son counseling, or afford to move to another school district, or afford to enroll their son in a private school, or afford to home school him.

if they live in the USA, there are county mental services for FREE. the public school system also has counseling programs. all the parent would need to do is take the time, power, and dedication to get it done.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 15th, 2011, 03:36 AM

if they live in the USA, there are county mental services for FREE. the public school system also has counseling programs. all the parent would need to do is take the time, power, and dedication to get it done.

Counseling does not work for everyone. Also, it may not be enough. Some people may need medication in addition to counseling, and what if the parents could not afford medication or their insurance would not cover it or they could not afford insurance.

judahtics

August 15th, 2011, 04:39 AM

Counseling does not work for everyone. Also, it may not be enough. Some people may need medication in addition to counseling, and what if the parents could not afford medication or their insurance would not cover it or they could not afford insurance.

again, if they are in the US, mental services are provided for free, including meds, if there is no insurance or you can not afford it, which would have to be proven, but isn't difficult to do. there is no excuse in the US for someone to not get counseling and mental health treatment if it's needed.

dead

August 15th, 2011, 10:39 AM

again, if they are in the US, mental services are provided for free, including meds, if there is no insurance or you can not afford it, which would have to be proven, but isn't difficult to do. there is no excuse in the US for someone to not get counseling and mental health treatment if it's needed.

http://www.nmha.org/go/help/how-to-pay-for-treatment/prescription-assistance-programs

DoctorWho

August 15th, 2011, 12:13 PM

huginnmuninn

August 15th, 2011, 04:46 PM

I said this before to someone who said something similar. It could be possible that the parents constantly complained to the school, and the school did nothing. Also, there is the possibility that the parents could not afford to give their son counseling, or afford to move to another school district, or afford to enroll their son in a private school, or afford to home school him.

Counseling does not work for everyone. Also, it may not be enough. Some people may need medication in addition to counseling, and what if the parents could not afford medication or their insurance would not cover it or they could not afford insurance.

why bring the idea of counseling up if youre just gonna slash the idea whenever it turns out you were wrong about it?

dead

August 15th, 2011, 04:50 PM

why bring the idea of counseling up if youre just gonna slash the idea whenever it turns out you were wrong about it?

Different things work for different people.

huginnmuninn

August 15th, 2011, 04:54 PM

Different things work for different people.

well i was just thinking if youre gonna bring up a point at least have the decency to defend it (even if there was no case for it)

dead

August 15th, 2011, 08:00 PM

well i was just thinking if youre gonna bring up a point at least have the decency to defend it (even if there was no case for it)

You can not choose sides and still debate.

ShyGuyInChicago

August 15th, 2011, 09:15 PM

why bring the idea of counseling up if youre just gonna slash the idea whenever it turns out you were wrong about it?

I did not consider that some places offer mental health counseling free of charge.

DoctorWho

August 16th, 2011, 01:27 AM

well i was just thinking if youre gonna bring up a point at least have the decency to defend it (even if there was no case for it)
Defending his point would make it more understandibal yes
You can not choose sides and still debate.
Yes you can choosing a side then debating is free of will
I did not consider that some places offer mental health counseling free of charge.Until the damage is dealt

dead

August 16th, 2011, 09:29 AM

Great job at misunderstanding my post.

DoctorWho

August 16th, 2011, 11:46 AM

Your welcome ;)

Dive to Survive

August 18th, 2011, 08:00 PM

I don't think that anyone should be sued but I do think that both the bully and the kid that took his own life are responsible.

DoctorWho

August 18th, 2011, 11:31 PM

I don't think that anyone should be sued but I do think that both the bully and the kid that took his own life are responsible.

You hardly cleard that up as in which the parents did nothing about it neither did the school

judahtics

August 18th, 2011, 11:38 PM

in the end, who cares who's fault it is? all that matters is there was a loss of life where there didn't have to be. all that matters is society, school, parents, bullies, friends, coaches, teachers, and others, let someone down. so much time and energy is being focused on placing blame that the loss of life has taken second place.

please everyone, stop and think for a minute. all that really matters in this situation, isn't who is to blame, but that someone lost their life.

LivierGleek

August 19th, 2011, 04:21 AM

Bullies, their parents and school are responsible.

DoctorWho

August 19th, 2011, 12:13 PM

HeroesAndCons

August 20th, 2011, 01:51 AM

User Deleted

August 20th, 2011, 02:01 AM

The parents and the bullies should be held responsible
Parents- They obviously didn't notice or care until a extreme action was about.
The bullies- Cause they were the impudent dicks that made them sad and feel worthless.
Justmyopinion

Though it is easier for the bully to make a choice so I think it is more of their fault than the parents.

mrdtf

August 27th, 2011, 09:00 AM

i think its the bullies fault not the schools the student obviously didn't consult the proper authority and he couldn't take the bullying anymore but on the other side of it u cant tell anybody really caus it wont stop it'll just get worse

Marky

September 1st, 2011, 10:23 PM

Suicide is a big deal no doubt. But a couple of factors come into play, did the child reach out to the school officials for advice or help? did the parents ever consult with the school once their child told them? and how strong was the will of the child?

In my own personal belief I think that those who commit suicide are weak willed people. Because the fact that they could not cope with the things around them. You hear stories of kids killing themselves for the simplest of reasons.

I do want to say sorry if i offended anyone because their are situations when suicide might seem like an only or=ption but it isnt. and then their are cases of it is the only option. No one can really come to a conclusion of what was going threw their head at the moment let it be all rage that drove them toit but to us it will always be a mystery

SammyGoNuts

September 3rd, 2011, 05:02 AM

those who commit suicide are weak willed people

I disagree with this for a variety of reasons, the biggest being those that actually commit suicide have usually struggled with the thought for a while. With how difficult it is - as well as the ratio of successful suicides to failed, attempted ones - I would actually say it takes more than a weak will to go through with it.

Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion on if anyone should be blamed or held responsible, but I wouldn't be surprised if this or the following year for that school to bring in some kind of zero-bullying tolerance.

DerBear

September 26th, 2011, 04:09 PM

Its safe to say there is no one person to blame here many were involved and for that no one should be sued

Underground_Network

September 26th, 2011, 04:13 PM

I'm intrigued by this whole concept and hope to compose a novel about this topic before graduating college, though only time will tell if that actually happens.

I believe the responsibility is placed on who the majority place the responsibility on. I cannot target one specific individual or one specific group of individuals as being specifically to blame. Suicide is a culmination of numerous events and thoughts in the victim's own head as well. It's tough to determine who to blame in a situation like that, and it's tough to determine if any blame should even bother to be placed.