Homosexuality?

[DestroyTheFuture]

Homosexuality, what is it really?

let me start off with this by saying formally, "I am not against homosexuals in any way, and i am not homophobic. I respect their decisions and actions, as long as they respect mine."

almost every single gay person in the world will disagree with me on the next thing i am about to say, and if you are gay and you believe in this statement, please tell me, i'd love to be friends!


-YOU ARE NOT BORN GAY! See, i believe that people who are gay tell people that they were born gay. What this does, is reduces and/or prevents the usage of insults towards gay people, because then gay people just say, "you cant make fun of me because i cant help it! God made me this way and i cant change!"

So here's the question, were you gay when you are 2 years old? Did you go around and know and admit to at least yourself that you sexually preferred males? Now, many of you probably think im stupid and ignorant by asking that, but this is why my opinion on this whole situation is right...People say that you aren't Straight, Gay, or Bisexual until you get older and your hormones start developing. But, this still means that you turned gay when you were whatever age, lets just say 10 as a even answer. Thats the thing, its funny how people defend my argument by saying that you find out your gay when you're older, you just aren't when you're very young. But, even if you find out you are gay when your 10, you still WERENT gay when you were 5. This means, that by not being gay at one time in your life, to being gay at another, you turned gay. Nobody is born gay, everyone is born straight. But, at a time in your life, you decide that youd rather be sexually intimate with the same sex rather than the opposite sex.

I'm sick and tired of gay people telling everyone else that its not their fault that they are gay. It's just some lame excuse that people make up so they arent allowed to get made fun of.

What's my reasoning behind my belief? Because i know that i could be gay right now, actually...i just turned Gay...now im straight again! See, thats exactly how it works, i just turned gay for 3 seconds of my life and turned straight again.

Almost every Bisexual person agrees with me on my argument, because every Bisexual person was Straight at one time, and then they decided that they like the same sex too, so they consider themselves Bisexual.

Also, i'm not religious at all, in fact, i'm athiest. That means that nothing to do with religion plays into this. I was once a Christian, because i was brought up Christian, but about 18 months ago, i realized how there are many untrue things about Christianity. So, if you want to bring religion into this then go ahead, but i dont think it is necessary.


Congratulations, whether you are Straight, Gay, or Bi, you have just been convinced or reassured that what i am saying is 100% true and common knowledge.

[Aηdy]

Is this really a debate? :/

[0=]

By your reasoning I can say you weren't born straight. You became straight as soon as you began exploring your sexuality. But that doesn't work in the real world. A lot of people don't even know how sex works when they become attracted to either the same or opposite sex.

[Maverick]

Honestly if you're straight you possibly can't understand. You cannot say how something is if you haven't lived it.

[DestroyTheFuture]

It doesnt matter if im not Gay. My debate is completely legitimate, and i don need to like men in order to feel how much "worse" everything in the world is when your Gay.

and 0=, you are right. When i was 2, i wouldn't consider myself straight. And also, when i was in 3rd grade, i didnt know how sex worked until they tough it to us in 4th grade. I didn know that humping was sexual, i just thought it was some thing that was supposed to be funny that dogs did.

But, as far back as i remember, i was straight (3-4 years old...memories that i have of being 3 are with my parents, but 4 is when i can definately remember liking girls). Now sure, you could say that i was gay when i was younger than 4, but you have no documentation of that and either do i. The reason why, is because my parents like every other parent, decided not to teach me about sexual feelings until an older age. I knew that girls were special by my own feelings when i was four, and i knew that i liked to be with them relationship wise more than a guy. I also knew that i didnt want to kiss a guy on the cheek, but that i wanted to kiss a girl on the cheek (basically as far as you got when you were that young)

[schrei jess]

Good Lord.

Okay. I am not gay, Im not sure what I am right now, but I believe that you are born straight, gay, or bisexual, and you dont fully realize it until you get to your teen years when you start to have sexual feelings and start to experiment. And like Ive heard many gay males say to me before, they always just knew something was different about them, they never seemed interested in girls, now Im not saying they knew they were gay at two years old but as they got older - they realized they didnt have the same interest in girls as their peers did.

And Im agreeing with what Anthony says, you dont fully understand the situation unless you yourself have experienced it, so in this case - you are straight, not gay, so you DO NOT FULLY understand what it feels like to be gay or how you discover that you're gay. With that said, Im going to stop here before I get upset at your stupidity once more.

[redcar]

Oh yes I have been wanting a nice debate like this... its been a while!!:D


almost every single gay person in the world will disagree with me

Would this not be a little hint that you may be wrong?!

See, i believe that people who are gay tell people that they were born gay. What this does, is reduces and/or prevents the usage of insults towards gay people, because then gay people just say, "you cant make fun of me because i cant help it! God made me this way and i cant change!"
Crap. I am gay and I have never once used that arguement when insulted about my sexuality. Never heard anyone else use it either.

So here's the question, were you gay when you are 2 years old?
Of course not. At 2 I didn't know what gay was... I didn't know a lot of things. But growing up I did know that I had feelings towards other boys.

I'm sick and tired of gay people telling everyone else that its not their fault that they are gay. It's just some lame excuse that people make up so they arent allowed to get made fun of.

Are you? So if I wasn't born gay, I chose it right? Hahahaha. Seriously do you know what gay is? Do you think I, or anyone for that matter, would choose it? Do some research.

Because i know that i could be gay right now, actually...i just turned Gay...now im straight again! See, thats exactly how it works, i just turned gay for 3 seconds of my life and turned straight again.
Really do you know what gay is? Do you know what being straight is?


Aww this could have been a good debate but because you clearly know nothing about sexuality, its no fun. :(

[Maverick]

Im going to stop here before I get upset at your stupidity once more.
I agree. I can't stand to argue at such closed mindness. I'm not going to listen to an only 14 year old boy say it's a choice when hes straight.

[schrei jess]

Alex said it better than I did, what do you really know about sexuality at 14? I know I cant argue much with this point, Im only 15 and have a long way to go in sexuality and puberty whatever, but honestly, you need to grow up some more and do a hell of a lot more research about what it means to be gay, and what it is to be straight for that matter.

And exactly like Alex said, Ill just reinforce this point again, do you honestly think someone would chose to be hated by most of today's society? You think someone wants to have people bashing them and having to be afraid for their lives when they go places (that might be a tad extreme, but it definetly happens)? What person in their right mind would chose to be hated just to have sex and relationships with the same sex?

[Unpresentable]

I don't think you can really understand this at all unless you're not.. straight. I'm bi, and i don't agree with you at all.
I have always known that I was bi, and I didn't pick it.
I mean, seriously. Why would I choose to be bi, considering all the abuse that we get?

[DestroyTheFuture]

Look, i see that Alex, the sites Admin, who has much more power over me, disagrees with me. But, i dont think that is a reason for me to back down on my argument, because i dont think that that is a fair thing to have happen. so with that, in all do respect Alex and everyone else on this site, i am goingto stick with my opinion.

Some of you said that because you are Gay or Bi, you know what its like, and that is true, and you also stated something similar to this. "I havent been attracted to the opposite sex for as long as ive known. I have always been attracted to the same sex for as long as ive been attracted to any sex."

Yes, thats exactly it. You werent attracted to the same sex when you were 3, so that means, that by going from not attracted to the same sex, to being attracted to the same sex, you turned gay. as in, you made a choice to become gay, because you were choosing not to be gay before. I realize that you werent aware of what sexuality was when you were 3, but that does not matter. You still turned gay, because you were not gay earlier in your life.

Once again i state that i have nothing against people who are gay, and i do not prejudice towards them. But, i do carry a high state of concern when people who are homosexual deny that they didnt turn gay. Because clearly, with what ive stated, people who are gay DO turn gay.

-MNHockey11

[schrei jess]

Did you not read what I said?

Their feelings for the same sex do not show up clearly enough until they realized what sexuality is and when they begin to express it. They probably didnt even realize they liked boys better than girls until they got to the point where they knew what sex was and preferences all that jazz.

Do you get that? Or can you still not see it?

[redcar]

I am not asking you to back down on your argument, I am just taking part in this debate.


You werent attracted to the same sex when you were 3

Thats true, I also wasnt attracted to the opposite sex. Probably because I was a child and not being sexually mature means that I didn't have sexual feelings for anyone.

Seriously if you are going to debate me with homosexuality you will need to have some water tight points, call this my specialist subject, but so far your points you are making are terrible.

[Hyper]

I will do some research tommorow as I seem to forget everything I read but I agree with the maker of the thread.. It is a choice

[Dante]

When you are that young you do not understand anything about sexuality, only when u grow older and you realize that ur attracted to the same sex, or opposite sex...Is when u begin to grasp it.

To say that Gay people just use the fact that theyre born gay as an excuse so they wont get teased, is absolutly ABSURD because guess what?? They tell people that and they still are discrimintaed against.

Noone chooses to be gay, Noone would choose to be discriminated against.

So with that little display of u turning "gay" for 3 seconds, just shows how much of a child you are.

Being gay isnt just saying that ur gay, its an actual attraction to the same sex

[DestroyTheFuture]

I am not asking you to back down on your argument, I am just taking part in this debate.

"You werent attracted to the same sex when you were 3."

Thats true, I also wasnt attracted to the opposite sex. Probably because I was a child and not being sexually mature means that I didn't have sexual feelings for anyone.

Seriously if you are going to debate me with homosexuality you will need to have some water tight points, call this my specialist subject, but so far your points you are making are terrible.


Alex, you just set me up for a finishing argument.

You said that you werent attracted to the same sex when you were 3. (you also said you werent attracted to the opposite sex when you were 3 too but that doesnt matter right now). This means that you were NOT gay when you were 3, as in you were not gay in a previous time of your life, then, when you became older, you chose to be gay because you liked males more than females.

[Bobby]

You don't choose to like females, or males. It's natural, and something you can't control.

[Dante]

Let me be the 1st to say ur finsihing argument sucks.

at 3 u dont know anythign about sexuality. it isnt something u worry about or put emphasize on because YOUR 3!!!! U worry about playing!

As u grow up u realize sexuality, and u realize that ur straight or gay.

Saying he chose to be gay is like saying he chose his hormones. It doesn't work that way.

He also didnt choose to pick males over females cuz ims ure it isnt something he could control.

[schrei jess]

Of course it matters that he also wasnt attracted to the opposite sex, either. That then makes him asexual as a child, therefore not making him gay or straight. You are clearly denying the fact that children cant possibly know what their preference is until they grow older and learn about sexuality! It is quite obvious that a three year old wouldnt know if they liked males or females better since they have no knowledge of sexuality at this point in time. You need to understand that.

[DestroyTheFuture]

When you are that young you do not understand anything about sexuality, only when u grow older and you realize that ur attracted to the same sex, or opposite sex...Is when u begin to grasp it.

To say that Gay people just use the fact that theyre born gay as an excuse so they wont get teased, is absolutly ABSURD because guess what?? They tell people that and they still are discrimintaed against.

Noone chooses to be gay, Noone would choose to be discriminated against.

So with that little display of u turning "gay" for 3 seconds, just shows how much of a child you are.

Being gay isnt just saying that ur gay, its an actual attraction to the same sex

They don't choose to be discriminated against. People choose to discriminate towards them. And also, i had a sexual attraction over females for 3 seconds, which means that i turned gay for 3 seconds, and then i turned straight again because i sexually preferred females over males.

and yes, as you have already been convinced before, everyone who is gay chooses to be gay.

When Gay people get made fun of for being gay, they will usually come back by saying, "You cant make fun of me because i was born this way, God wanted me to be this way."

They say it so they dont get made fun of as badly Dante. How would this go over? "Wow, your gay? haha!""So what? It's my choice if i want to be gay."

They make the excuse so they cant get blamed for a decision that is usually considered wrong. If they didnt make the excuse, then people would be able to blame it soley on them.

[Bobby]

When Gay people get made fun of for being gay, they will usually come back by saying, "You cant make fun of me because i was born this way, God wanted me to be this way."


I've never heard anyone ever say this.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Yes, you have. If you haven't, its because you've cut off your connection with any homosexual people. And if you haven't cut off your relationships with homosexual people, then you have heard it. This is not a prejudice, but Dante, everyone has heard a person who is gay say that, whether it is on TV, an online debate, w/e.

Just face it guys, my debate is legit enough to be proven as fact.

[schrei jess]

Just face it guys, my debate is legit enough to be proven as fact.

You're an arrogant little thing arent you? You're just so damn sure you're right? It's quite obvious you dont know enough about this subject to debate it correctly like Alex said. When you've gotten over yourself, matured a bit, and researched this topic and gotten the facts - maybe we can have a real debate then?

Until then, it's obvious no one is going to get anywhere with this.

[DestroyTheFuture]

I know as much as i need to know about this subject and topic. You, Jess, need to look on a different forum because you certainly don't seem to know enough about this topic to be arguing about it on such a high level. I feel that you should possibly stay out of this argument because you dont seem to be very experienced in debating this topic.

By the way everyone, it's simple logic how i am right. read the first post of this Forum.

[schrei jess]

rofl! I spit diet coke everywhere when I read that post!

I am very close to this topic and know quite a lot about it, thank you. Ive had several gay male friends and have myself questioned my sexuality and have been finding myself attracted to females, therefore Ive been researching it and discussing it with friends quite a lot. I also write quite a lot that deals with homosexual males, therefore I need information in order to write the stories acurately, and I have a lot of knowledge on this topic. Im 99.9% sure that I know a hell of a lot more about the gay community than you do, Hockey dude, and it is quite obvious to the people who have visited this forum, not just me, that you really have no clue what you are talking about.

[0=]

My theory is that we're all bisexual. You don't have to go out having sex with both sexes in order to be bisexual, everyone has their gay moments, and I'm sure gay people have their straight moments.

[Melchi0r]

MNHHockey11,

Your initial argument is pretty much wrong. And then you continued to argue blindly, not knowing anything about what it's like to be gay or bisexual. . Now you aren't making any sense at all and your arrogance is ticking me off.

I'm just repeating what everyone else is saying because you really need to understand this. Not everyone is born straight. Some are born bi and some are born gay. When you're 3, you can in fact be gay! The thing is, at three your hormones that bring out your sexuality aren't working yet, and you don't even know what sex is. Therefore, your sexuality remains dormant and is nothing you even know about or worry about.

Then when you get older and start puberty, your hormones start raging and you realize your sexuality. You don't turn gay, you just finally come to grips with the fact that you are. Therefore I repeat, [i]YOU AREN'T NOT GAY WHEN YOU'RE 3!.

Only an idiot would choose to be gay, and think to themselves, "I feel like being discriminated against, hated, have sucky rights, and have my life threatened. I know, I'll become gay!"

I hope you come to understand this sooner or later so we won't have to keep on repeating this message!

~LR

And =0 please elaborate on your opinion. Not that I disagree, I just don't fully understand.

[Hyper]

Ok look at it this way

When you realize that you are attracted to either females, males or both
You decide that you are gay meaning you still choose it because you belive it is how it should be, and it is a comfortable choice sexualy seeing as you aren't attracted to females. And if you are attracted to both you choose to be Bi but my opinions on Bi are too crude to say them out loud on this site..

[Melchi0r]

Well if you like men, you don't choose to be gay because you already are.

[Sapphire]

Ok, I am bi. I have known so for 6 years. It is not a choice.

But that is not to say that I was born bisexual. There are two reasonable arguments to this debate. One, which many have already stated, is that you are born straight/gay/bi. In others words, Nature. The other one, and the one that receives my support, is that it is rooted in your early relationships and experiences of the world. The Nurture argument. When I say early I mean 0-7 years old.

Gay males tend to have been far closer to their mothers in this period compared to their straight counter-parts. My ex was constantly abused by males and received more support from females. She is a lesbian.

[Hyper]

Ok, I am bi. I have known so for 6 years. It is not a choice.

But that is not to say that I was born bisexual. There are two reasonable arguments to this debate. One, which many have already stated, is that you are born straight/gay/bi. In others words, Nature. The other one, and the one that receives my support, is that it is rooted in your early relationships and experiences of the world. The Nurture argument. When I say early I mean 0-7 years old.

Gay males tend to have been far closer to their mothers in this period compared to their straight counter-parts. My ex was constantly abused by males and received more support from females. She is a lesbian.

I do think in some way it is a choice in the subconcious but what you are saying is practicly right ( To me of course ) the fact is that sexual orientation, and fetishes develop in life.

[redcar]

Right I have had a long day but I am going to do my best to have some fun here!:D

It is a choice
My advise to you is to get a gay friend or even just talk to someone who is gay... then come back and join in, because from that statement its clear you too don't know what it is to be gay.

You said that you werent attracted to the same sex when you were 3. (you also said you werent attracted to the opposite sex when you were 3 too but that doesnt matter right now). This means that you were NOT gay when you were 3, as in you were not gay in a previous time of your life, then, when you became older, you chose to be gay because you liked males more than females.
Again I want to ask why do you think I would choose to be gay? Read what I write, I said that I had different feelings towards guys growing up. Like did you choose to be straight? Did one morning you wake up and say mmmm I think I am going fancy girls. Of course you didn't.

"You cant make fun of me because i was born this way, God wanted me to be this way."

Sorry but thats utter shite. I have never once said that and gay people I know have never said that either... so where are you getting this info from? The land of make believe?!

They make the excuse so they cant get blamed for a decision that is usually considered wrong.
At this juncture I will strongly advise you not to go down the whole "Being gay is wrong" road because if you do that, it will make me very unhappy and you don't want that.

Yes, you have. If you haven't, its because you've cut off your connection with any homosexual people. And if you haven't cut off your relationships with homosexual people, then you have heard it. This is not a prejudice, but Dante, everyone has heard a person who is gay say that, whether it is on TV, an online debate, w/e.
You replied to Bobby with this because he has never heard anyone say...
"You cant make fun of me because i was born this way, God wanted me to be this way."
Now I am gay and I have connections with homosexual people and I have never heard anyone say it either. So care to explain why that could be?

I know as much as i need to know about this subject and topic. You, Jess, need to look on a different forum because you certainly don't seem to know enough about this topic to be arguing about it on such a high level. I feel that you should possibly stay out of this argument because you dont seem to be very experienced in debating this topic.
Actually you know very little about the subject and not even close to the level that you need to debate it. And Jess knows far more about this topic than you do, so don't ask her to stay out of it.

When you realize that you are attracted to either females, males or both
You decide that you are gay meaning you still choose it because you belive it is how it should be,
Wrong. It's a realisation not a choice. You don't decide you realise you are gay. There is a differnce.


Again MNHockey11 I strongly advise you to do some research, perhaps figure out what is means by the word gay and then come back and debate then, so far your arguements are repetitive and boring at best. I don't usually make a habit of using the age card, but take it from someone who is older and on this subject wiser, you are talking rubbish.

[schrei jess]

Yeah if anyone knows about homosexuality, and sexuality in general, it's Alex because like he said - he is older and has been through all of this, and we're just starting out. He's already discovered sexuality and had all the hormones, all that jazz.

But yeah, fun little "debate" we had here.

[Melchi0r]

Homosexuality has been documented in 500+ animal species.
Top 10 gay animals. (http://www.livescience.com/bestimg/index.php?url=&cat=gayanimals)

Interesting huh?

[schrei jess]

Yeah I had heard about that through an email I recieve from PETA. They wanted me to sign a petition against researchers killing and studying supposedly "gay" rams brains. After I read that I started looking up things and found out animals could actually be gay. I thought that was pretty cool, and just proved even more how animals are alike humans.

But that is another subject :D

[Hyper]

Alex I have had a gay friend.. And I am quite sure I know what it's like in the sense of being terrorized..

See the thing is some gays who say that they don't wan't to be gay but can't help it use the ,, I was born this way '' as an excuse, but the thing is that alot of ppl who are young and stupid belive that if they get some boner over a guy, that they are gay and imagine it to be so true that it becomes true because they start beliveing it.. Then also ppl who 'realize' that they like guys more than girls assume then, that they are naturally gay again they belive that they are gay because they like guys more than girls, but if you completly don't wan't to be gay, and you are attracted to guys more than girls you will not become gay because you don't wan't to, and if you still do then you just can't controll yourself

And about the animal comment.. Humans aren't animals why the heck should the entire population run after ''sexual pleasure'' just because 500 species out of an estimate of 5? million have some kind of gay behaivour doesn't mean that it is perfectly natural and that they born that way

What about the other 5 million?

[Sapphire]

Ok, I must admit that I hadn't read whole of the thread when I posted on here.
As my last post states, I am a supporter of the argument for nurture influencing homo/bisexuality. The argument for nature being the cause is also a good one. But neither is sufficient to cover all of the homo/bisexual community and neither has been proven to be completely true or flase.

But, MNHockey you are an arragant little thing with no actual comprehension of what you are talking about. The most amusing thing is that you accuse others of this ignorance and act all superior. It's ridiculous.

My advise, go get more factual knowledge and then come back when you can actually hold a rational debate.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Alex, at the beginning of the first post, i stated that i had nothing against homosexuality. I believe that it is perfectly fine and i don't understand why they aren't allowed the same rights as heterosexuals.

I am completely mature enough to make my own decisions, to debate o things that i believe in, and to participate in arguing against opinions i find faulty.


I honestly dont understand how no one has agreed with me over this. But, since no of you do, i guess i'll just have to win your support. When you are 3, (remember readers, 3 is just an example age of when you dont know your sexuality) you are asexual, as Jess stated. But, this means that you DO NOT LIKE MALES! As in, if you go from not liking males in a previous time of your life, to liking males in a later time in your life, then you chose to go against your thoughts on not liking males, and start liking them.

That's the whole convincing argument, how does everyone not see that?!


Also, Alex, i, myself, have seen a gay male use the line, "I was born this way, god made me this way and i cant help it!" personally used by a gay male in a conversation that i personally witnessed. Another referrence example for some to refer to can also be Davis on the Real World: Denver. He has used that line before on that show, so if you want, you can look at it on www.mtv.com.

[Dante]

I honestly dont understand how no one has agreed with me over this.


Noone has agreed with you because you sound like an idiot.

and there is a BIG difference in " I was born this way, God made me this way I cant help it" than

"you cant make fun of me because i cant help it! God made me this way and i cant change!"

[Hyper]

Hmm just because you don't agree with hes opinion doesn't mean he is an idiot

And if you didn't read I do think it is a choice ;P

[0=]

To elaborate as Josh requested, we are all bisexual in the sense that we have some attraction to the same or opposite sex, no matter what. It might not even be conscious, but there's always that sexy dream you don't tell your friends about where you're in a situation that's contrary to your sexual orientation, or that erection when you were showering with guys; that nipple erection for girls. We don't necessarily choose to be aroused like this, but there is that bit of attraction, no matter what.

[Dante]

Hmm just because you don't agree with hes opinion doesn't mean he is an idiot

And if you didn't read I do think it is a choice ;P

I am not saying hes an idiot because he thinks its a choice....but how he is presenting himself makes him look idiotic, with saying what hes saying is factual and that everyone else is wrong.

[DestroyTheFuture]

To elaborate as Josh requested, we are all bisexual in the sense that we have some attraction to the same or opposite sex, no matter what. It might not even be conscious, but there's always that sexy dream you don't tell your friends about where you're in a situation that's contrary to your sexual orientation, or that erection when you were showering with guys; that nipple erection for girls. We don't necessarily choose to be aroused like this, but there is that bit of attraction, no matter what.


mmmmm no that's just you...and Josh




I am not saying hes an idiot because he thinks its a choice....but how he is presenting himself makes him look idiotic, with saying what hes saying is factual and that everyone else is wrong.


in my opinion, i do believe that everyone else is wrong. That's what an opinion is Dante. well, unless your really passive and you go with what other people tell you to do. But, i am not like that, i stand up for my opinions because i think about them thoroughly before i discuss them. And its your opinion that im presenting myself idiotically. So, if you tell me that my opinion is wrong, then so is yours :)



1Up.

[redcar]

Right you are saying its a choice, now you have been going on with a lot of crap, I want you to give me ireputable evidence that supports that claim.

As such I will give you mine that says its not a choice. I am gay, and I know I dam well didn't chose being gay and all my life before my teens as well I knew that different feelings towards guys. And also many of my gay friends support this claim as well.

Please come up with a good argument.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Alex, i am sick of repeating what I've said over and over. I have already introduced the revolutionary knowledge and you can find my arguments in other posts. Refer back to the first one to see a best representation of the argument.

[redcar]

Alex, i am sick of repeating what I've said over and over. I have already introduced the revolutionary knowledge and you can find my arguments in other posts. Refer back to the first one to see a best representation of the argument.
But the thing is what you are saying holds no water. Your arguments are totally flawed an 8 year old could tare them apart.
Revolutionary knowledge?! To know the meaning of life that would be revolutionary knowledge.

I am just giving you the oppurtunity to come up with a better arguement.

[Sapphire]

MNHockey, opinions differ from person to person and are all subjective. You try to pass you opinion off as knowledge and undeniable fact and discredit anyone else's opinion as just complete fabrication. That is not mature, it is not reasonable and it does make you look idiotic.

[Hyper]

See no one wins a debate, only if you debate with someone who backs down from their opinions I more consider a debate as a chance for ppl to show their opinions and well get some anger out of them if the debate goes angry :D

[0=]

A debate is won if one side is proven wrong, and since almost everyone agrees that he is wrong, he has lost the debate.

[Hyper]

Democracy doesn't equal truth

And everyone is entitled to what they belive in and their own opinions, and anyone can think an opinion is right even if it is wrong

And I don't realy see much evidence here

[Melchi0r]

mmmmm no that's just you...and Josh

You're getting annoying.
So what if you don't think you ever feel like that, or maybe are just denying that you do, you have no right to say that others never feel that way. Your debate styles are way worse than your close-mindedness.

[0=]

He reminds me of someone.

[DestroyTheFuture]

A debate is won if one side is proven wrong, and since almost everyone agrees that he is wrong, he has lost the debate.

almost everyone thinks bush is a nazi...doesnt mean he is...for the record, he's not.


also, you haven't proven me wrong. Nobody has. Everyone has just said the exact same thing as everyone else...yes, i did that too, because i already explained everything that i needed to explain in order to get my point out. I actually did prove everyone else, except Hyper, and others, wrong:

I will repeat one of my main topics...

when you are too young to know what your sexuality is, you are asexual, as in, not gay, straight, or bi. This means that you AREN'T gay, sure, you aren't straight, but that doesn't matter in this argument. Anyways, when you go from not being gay one time in your past, to being gay another time, later in your life than that time, then you made the conscious decision to yourself that you WANT to be gay. It doesn't matter if you always felt 'different' your whole life, you still weren't gay. You were either Straight, Bi, or Asexual...but not Gay. Therefore, you made a choice to be Gay. It wasn't destiny, because that gets religious and i don't believe in that. I don't believe that an upper being choses what you will do in your life, i believe that you are the only person who decides that.

2Up.



There you go.

[0=]

By that argument you choose to be straight or bi, but ask 1,000 straight people and they will say they didn't choose. Also, to say that children are asexual is wrong. You don't need to know what something is to take part in it. Young children have been known to masturbate, even babies, not because they know they'll have an orgasm, they rarely do it enough, but because it feels good. You will likely answer that masturbation does not show if you're straight, gay, or bisexual, but it does show that they are not asexual. You cannot have thoughts like wanting to have sex with someone if you don't know what sex is, but, "feeling differently toward guys", as it has been described by many, is proof of attraction to the same sex. To support this for straight people, young boys and girls flirt. They say they don't like each other, and that they're gross, but when the boys run from the girls and tease them saying they have cooties, it's flirtatious behavior.

[schrei jess]

when you are too young to know what your sexuality is, you are asexual, as in, not gay, straight, or bi. This means that you AREN'T gay, sure, you aren't straight, but that doesn't matter in this argument. Anyways, when you go from not being gay one time in your past, to being gay another time, later in your life than that time, then you made the conscious decision to yourself that you WANT to be gay. It doesn't matter if you always felt 'different' your whole life, you still weren't gay. You were either Straight, Bi, or Asexual...but not Gay. Therefore, you made a choice to be Gay. It wasn't destiny, because that gets religious and i don't believe in that. I don't believe that an upper being choses what you will do in your life, i believe that you are the only person who decides that.


Two problems in all of that crap of a post. One, if you are going to say you arent gay - then of course it matters that you were also not straight! The reason you are saying it doesnt matter is BECAUSE IT DOES, and PROVES YOUR THEORY WRONG. And the second problem is that IT IS YOUR OPINION, that it isnt destiny, NOT EVERYONE ELSES. Not everyone is an atheist, a lot do believe in a higher power.

The whole point really is this - YOU ARENT STATING FACTS EITHER. You are NOT PROVING your argument at all, NONE OF THAT CRAP IS FACT. So stop trying to act like it is. It is just your idiotic, immature, ignorant OPINION.

Get over youself, for the sake of all of us!

[DestroyTheFuture]

Actually, it is fact, because I've already proved it.

I said that my opinion was factual evidence, because in my opinion, it is. But, i never said that i proved anyone wrong. therefore, i don't need to prove my opinion as a fact because i didn't call anyone out on it telling them that they cant prove it. But, i

it doesn't matter if you weren't straight because the discussion is not if you choose to be straight, it is is you choose to be gay. God dammit.

And also, when i say that i believe, that is referencing towards an opinion. I'd like to ask you a few questions though:

1. What do you think God is?
2. Why do you believe in God?
3. How do you think God communicated with Jesus?
4. Why do you believe in Heaven and Hell?
5. If Jesus's tomb was found, would you not be Christian anymore? Because that's pretty contradictory to the whole religion.


These are not converting questions, these are just questions that you should ask yourself, and i know that i is off topic, but if you really are a Christian, then you will have no problem answering them.

[0=]

Facts are not proven by opinions, facts are proven by hard evidence. You may "believe" it's a fact, but you're just sticking your head farther up your ass.

[Maverick]

Those questions shouldn't be answered about religion. It's off topic and will get this thread locked.

I said that my opinion was factual evidence, because in my opinion, it is. But, i never said that i proved anyone wrong. therefore, i don't need to prove my opinion as a fact because i didn't call anyone out on it telling them that they cant prove it.
Hahaha you can't say something is fact because you believe it is in your opinion! How can it be factual if it's your opinion! You're making no sense!

[DestroyTheFuture]

By that argument you choose to be straight or bi, but ask 1,000 straight people and they will say they didn't choose. Also, to say that children are asexual is wrong. You don't need to know what something is to take part in it. Young children have been known to masturbate, even babies, not because they know they'll have an orgasm, they rarely do it enough, but because it feels good. You will likely answer that masturbation does not show if you're straight, gay, or bisexual, but it does show that they are not asexual. You cannot have thoughts like wanting to have sex with someone if you don't know what sex is, but, "feeling differently toward guys", as it has been described by many, is proof of attraction to the same sex. To support this for straight people, young boys and girls flirt. They say they don't like each other, and that they're gross, but when the boys run from the girls and tease them saying they have cooties, it's flirtatious behavior.


thats because they ARE straight, they have realized their sexuality. I did it too because i knew that i was straight as long as i can remember, which for me, is under 5...my only memories or 3 and 4 were like playing with my parents and siblings so that doesn't account for when i remembered being around friends.


Masturbating babies does not have to do with anything in this argument by the way, and most children masturbate because they are exploring themselves. When it feels good, they get addicted and do it more often. They don't look at it sexually because they don't know that you orgasm while having sex.

An example with me, i thought that humping was just a funny thing that dogs did until i was about 8...because thats when i saw Van Wilder (haha yeaaaaahhhh) and people humped in that movie and they were naked so thats when i found out that it was sexual.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Those questions shouldn't be answered about religion. It's off topic and will get this thread locked.

Hahaha you can't say something is fact because you believe it is in your opinion! How can it be factual if it's your opinion! You're making no sense!


Ill just use this example. I believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, but i believe that he was a very bad sinner and cheated on his wifes and abused his loved ones. One reason is because, back in that time in the Arabic culture, that was a very common thing to have happen, as males dominated the female species far more and females were treated as servants. There was not any evidence to show that he is a very kind hearted man. You may be thinking, 'The Bible'. But, the bible is just like Wikipedia, it was written by wisemen who just 'submitted' their ideas in it, so if some Joe-Shmoe down the sand path like males, and the wisemen thought that he was really annoying, they just made up that it was a sin to like males.

[Maverick]

Why would anyone force themselves to like the same sex when they know they like the opposite sex, be hated by half the world and get made fun of all your life?

[Maverick]

Ill just use this example. I believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, but i believe that he was a very bad sinner and cheated on his wifes and abused his loved ones. One reason is because, back in that time in the Arabic culture, that was a very common thing to have happen, as males dominated the female species far more and females were treated as servants. There was not any evidence to show that he is a very kind hearted man. You may be thinking, 'The Bible'. But, the bible is just like Wikipedia, it was written by wisemen who just 'submitted' their ideas in it, so if some Joe-Shmoe down the sand path like males, and the wisemen thought that he was really annoying, they just made up that it was a sin to like males.
What is your point? That any opinion of anyone isn't valid just because they said/published it? So you're discrediting yourself? About time.


Sorry for double posting.

[schrei jess]

Lmao no I have no problem answering the questions.

1. What do you think God is?
He is the master of everything, he is our creator, he created us and everything on the earth as well as the entire universe.
2. Why do you believe in God?
I believe in God because; first of all, my parents raised me as christian so I grew up in faith but besides that, I feel God in my heart - I know he is there, he is always with me, I feel him around me.
3. How do you think God communicated with Jesus?
Jesus is God's son, God made him. And Jesus was sent to earth by God to be the saviour of his people, and after he died he went back to heaven with God. They can communicate because they are together now, and because Jesus is God's son.
4. Why do you believe in Heaven and Hell?
Because God created them, and it says so in the Bible.
5. If Jesus's tomb was found, would you not be Christian anymore? Because that's pretty contradictory to the whole religion.
Of course I would, how would finding his tomb make me not believe? I dont think you understand Christianity, finding his tomb wouldn't contradict our religion, probably make it stronger if anything.

[redcar]

I said that my opinion was factual evidence, because in my opinion, it is.
Oh I love this. Seriously, think before you say stuff.

then you made the conscious decision to yourself that you WANT to be gay.
Answer this question for me, why would anyone make a decision like that?
Again I am going to ask do you know what it is meant to be gay in this world? No one would chose it. Anyone with half a brain cell wouldn't chose it. Unless you are implying gay people are stupid?

[schrei jess]

Ill just use this example. I believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, but i believe that he was a very bad sinner and cheated on his wifes and abused his loved ones. One reason is because, back in that time in the Arabic culture, that was a very common thing to have happen, as males dominated the female species far more and females were treated as servants. There was not any evidence to show that he is a very kind hearted man. You may be thinking, 'The Bible'. But, the bible is just like Wikipedia, it was written by wisemen who just 'submitted' their ideas in it, so if some Joe-Shmoe down the sand path like males, and the wisemen thought that he was really annoying, they just made up that it was a sin to like males.

Yes Jesus Christ was a real person, but he is also God's son.. He was NOT a sinner, he is the only one along with God who does not sin at all, they are perfect. He never had a wife and he didnt abuse anyone. And the Bible is NO WAY like wikipedia. The information in the Bible comes from prophets - people who God spoke to either by Angels, dreams, or visions, and told them what to write, they didnt just make stuff up.

You clearly, also, DO NOT understand Christianity, so PLEASE do not just sit here making up stuff about a religion you dont even practice.

[Maverick]

Stop talking about religion. It's off-topic.

[schrei jess]

Yes, yes, off topic - but I will not let him spit out lies about my faith, so I will correct him, then move on.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Yes Jesus Christ was a real person, but he is also God's son.. He was NOT a sinner, he is the only one along with God who does not sin at all, they are perfect. He never had a wife and he didnt abuse anyone. And the Bible is NO WAY like wikipedia. The information in the Bible comes from prophets - people who God spoke to either by Angels, dreams, or visions, and told them what to write, they didnt just make stuff up.

You clearly, also, DO NOT understand Christianity, so PLEASE do not just sit here making up stuff about a religion you dont even practice.



WTF! I said that that was my opinion. And, i did practice Christianity until i became smart enough to see it's errors. The prophets could also write whatever they wanted. How the hell do you know that they didnt just say being Homosexual was bad just because they didnt like some guy that was?

Exactly.



but as the starter of the Forum, i demand that Jess, you are awarded one more message relating to this topic, and then the religion topic is done and we get back to the main debate.

[redcar]

WTF! I said that that was my opinion. And, i did practice Christianity until i became smart enough to see it's errors. The prophets could also write whatever they wanted. How the hell do you know that they didnt just say being Homosexual was bad just because they didnt like some guy that was?

Exactly.



but as the starter of the Forum, i demand that Jess, you are awarded one more message relating to this topic, and then the religion topic is done and we get back to the main debate.
Okie dokie enough with the religion. I don't mind straying off slightly and all that jazz, but if you want to talk religion you can make a seperate topic.

MNHockey11 even as starter of the thread, you can't demand that.

[schrei jess]

Lmao he awarded me a post, HAHA, funny kid.

Yes, we're done with religion, what I said WERE the facts, so if you want to believe something else about Christianity other than what I posted, then you'll be believing lies, I posted exactly the truth.

[DestroyTheFuture]

I'm sorry, i thought i could. My mistake

[0=]

That's what you get for being so arrogant.

[MoveAlong]

Look, i see that Alex, the sites Admin, who has much more power over me, disagrees with me. But, i dont think that is a reason for me to back down on my argument, because i dont think that that is a fair thing to have happen. so with that, in all do respect Alex and everyone else on this site, i am goingto stick with my opinion.

Nah, Alex (redcar) is a member too, so you can say anything you would to him, since this is a Debate. Just don't insult him - or rather anyone.


also, you haven't proven me wrong. Nobody has. Everyone has just said the exact same thing as everyone else...yes, i did that too, because i already explained everything that i needed to explain in order to get my point out. I actually did prove everyone else, except Hyper, and others, wrong

The whole point really is this - YOU ARENT STATING FACTS EITHER. You are NOT PROVING your argument at all, NONE OF THAT CRAP IS FACT.

Isn't the big thing here and the most interesting thing about this forum the fact that you can never prove someone wrong?

In all my days here at VT, staying up all night and constantly reading endless amounts of posts in this forum, I have not found one person who has had their opinion changed. We cannot have our opinion changed because this is what we believe in.


This is my take on your first post, only about me and written by me on me.
Bisexuality is a very interesting thing...you can't be bi and then call yourself gay. 'I'm being gay right now' doesn't work because you're bi. Sure, that might be the mood you're in, but you don't choose to be gay when you are bi.

Now, at a very early age, I was interested in boys more than I was girls. In fact, I never thought about girls. I was always thinking about boys, starting at them.
This was when I was in Kindergarden. Now I'm in 8th grade. I'm gay, and I can't just go ahead, get a girl, fuck her and call myself straight. "I'll just fuck her tonight and then I'll be gay tomorrow."

It's one, the other, or bisexual.

[Makod]

Why do we continue to beat the dead horse with a stick? -.-


Being gay or bi is a simple miss-wiring of the brain, the person becomes attracted to the pheromones of the same sex rather than the opposite. They're born with it. Science is a subject you should look to more often for the answers for questions. ^^

Or continue with your ignorance, which may be just as good, don't want too many people expanding on their intelligence... makes life boring, and impossible.

[Melchi0r]

Now that we've cleared the sh1t out of the fact that homosexuality is not a choice, what else might there be to talk about? I think if we just let MNHocky11 to believe what he believes and move on maybe this thread won't be fun for him anymore and he'll just leave us alone.

Could homosexuality be God's, or Nature's, or Evolution's plan to keep population down? Just so not everybody reproduces and there can be more to go around?

[DestroyTheFuture]

Dude, no, it's none of them.

Homosexuality is just a thing in life. It has no connection with population control.


Also, we haven't cleared the SHIT out that homosexuality is a choice. You have, and some others, but not me, so its not we. But, i will accept your proposal to move the discussion along, as i see that i am not going to change my thoughts, and that you all are too afraid to realize the truth. How about this as a questions though:


If you are gay as a middle schooler, and you see a straight guy that you like, do you tell him that you want to go out with him? Yes or No and Explain Why.

[Dante]

This is regards to Makod....I learned in My College Psyc class that people are not responsive to pheremones as they lead us to believe..thought u should know.

[0=]

You even implied that he and others agreed that it was not a choice, therefore it is we, not we as in you and him, but it is still we.

[redcar]

Could homosexuality be God's, or Nature's, or Evolution's plan to keep population down?

I refuse to believe I am population control :P


Also, we haven't cleared the SHIT out that homosexuality is a choice.

We have. It isn't a choice. Just take it from someone who is gay and knows a bit about it that it is not a choice.


If you are gay as a middle schooler, and you see a straight guy that you like, do you tell him that you want to go out with him? Yes or No and Explain Why.

Eh no. Reason being, your life would be made a living hell for the rest of your school life.

[DestroyTheFuture]

yeah well its happened before...to me.

i strongly recommend that no one does it because its creepy and it ruins friendships.

and yes Alex, i still believe that it is a choice. Your opinions are your opinions and my opinions are my opinions

[schrei jess]

Wondering why a gay middle school kid would risk his well being for you. Poor thing.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Good one.

[redcar]

and yes Alex, i still believe that it is a choice. Your opinions are your opinions and my opinions are my opinions

But you see where are you drawing your opinions from? Mine is first hand experience, and I have gay friends so I have experience there as well. You just came up with the idea and see it as fact. Please do some research.

[Hyper]

I consider the idea that its a choice in your concious wrong, I more consider it related psychologicly and in the subconcious

[Melchi0r]

Basically I think you're born gay. It's in your DNA or however you want to think of it.

[Whisper]

i'm sooo gonna get yelled at...

this debates retarted
i dont mean because of the sensativity of the subject
i mean its retarted because nobody knows for sure
it could and probly is diffrent for each person
probly a mixture of both nothings black n white in the real world

theres no hard core facts proving one side right and the other wrong
this is like a religious my gods better then yours debate (which he is by the way! HA!)
seriously

[Dante]

Well there is def. the Nature vs Nurture debate...but to say people choose to be gay and that they use the born gay response as a reason to not get teased is ABSURD

[Sapphire]

Well there is def. the Nature vs Nurture debate...but to say people choose to be gay and that they use the born gay response as a reason to not get teased is ABSURD

QFT

[Melchi0r]

If you say you're born gay in defense, homophobes will either not believe you or use your defense against you by calling you a freak.

What's a better defense when getting harassed by a homophobe?

[redcar]

If you say you're born gay in defense, homophobes will either not believe you or use your defense against you by calling you a freak.
If you used that as a defense you would get a response like: "I don't give a shit you are still a fucking faggot."

[DouggyO.o]

If you used that as a defense you would get a response like: "I don't give a shit you are still a fucking faggot."

HAHAHA(sorry) when it comes to homosexuality, i think it is perfectly ok for people to be gay. just because somebody likes somebody of the same sex it doesn't mean its wrong. I think being gay is only wrong when you have to parade it around to everybody. Gay pride parades for instance isnt ok. We dont have a straight pride parade... so why is there a gay one. dont get me wrong its all fine that your gay but when it comes to parading it around, i just find it really annoying.

[schrei jess]

Because every freaking day is a straight pride day, I think someone else said this.

Everyday is straight day, why cant you let the gays have their one day, their one parade? The one time they get to feel like it's okay? It's not like you have to go out there with them and cheer and parade around, let them have their fun for once.

[DouggyO.o]

yea you do have a point

[redcar]

Yes Doug Jess is right.

Gay people suffer a lot of injustice and discrimination and gay pride parades and such is just a way of saying to the world we are here and we are proud of who we are. Remember being gay is not a walk in the park. Being called a queer is not a nice thing. And to have the oppurtunity to tell the world that we are proud is not just parading our sexuality its much more.

This is something that really annoys me, its the attitude of I don't mind gays as long as they aren't near me.

[Dante]

or "as long as they dont hit on me"

[redcar]

or "as long as they dont hit on me"
Oh that is my favourite!
My response to that when people say it is: "Gay people have standards too you know!"

[schrei jess]

Haha I know, I hate how guys always think gay guys are gonna have a crush on them, just because they like guys doesnt mean they like every single guy they meet, it's just like with straight people, duh.

[Maverick]

No straight people make an effort for a pride day anyway.

[schrei jess]

Because they dont need a pride day, it is acceptable to be straight, no one makes fun of you for being straight, you dont need straight pride.

[Maverick]

Yeah I know but I'm saying it's not like no one is stopping straights. The whole point in pride is to celebrate and be proud of who you are whether it's acceptable or not. The point I'm trying to make is gay pride shouldn't be shut down because straights don't want to celebrate who they are. Limiting pride to just "unacceptable groups" is just going back to saying one side can't do something when in the end we want to be equal.

[schrei jess]

Who is stopping straights? I cant think of anyone who is. Im not saying they cant have a straight pride day, but why would they need one?

[Maverick]

I said that no one was stopping them in my last post.

Why would straights need one? They don't need one. Celebrating pride for anyone isn't a need.

[schrei jess]

Yeah I know but I'm saying it's not like no one is stopping straights. The whole point in pride is to celebrate and be proud of who you are whether it's acceptable or not. The point I'm trying to make is gay pride shouldn't be shut down because straights don't want to celebrate who they are. Limiting pride to just "unacceptable groups" is just going back to saying one side can't do something when in the end we want to be equal.

The way you worded it was awkward, so what you said was that someone is stopping straights because you said its not like no one is stopping them, meaning someone is. Yeah, so Im confused by which way you meant it.

The reason they have a gay pride parade is to keep them feeling like it's okay to be who they are, let them feel okay about it even though they get shit about it. I think it's fine to have one, a good idea and should stay that way.

[Hyper]

Sorry but when I have seen those things on tv, the ppl who are going there seem to be freaks -.-

[schrei jess]

Sorry but when I have seen those things on tv, the ppl who are going there seem to be freaks -.-

Hyper. That is an awful thing to say. Just because they are different doesnt mean they are "freaks". I hate the word freak, it's applied to anyone who stands out or defys stereotypes. It's pathetic. Just because there are those who arent the norm, doesnt mean they are weird or strange or freaks. To them, ya'll are the freaks. How about that?

[Melchi0r]

Gay pride parades exist so gay people can make themselves feel better about their difference, as a large portion of society doesn't accept them. In a world where homosexuality is as accepted as heterosexuality gay pride parades won't happen anymore because gay people will finally feel, and be treated, normal.
And there's no reason for straight pride parades because straight people don't need to celebrate being straight, as it is "supposed to" be the way everyone is.

[dannyley]

I dont mind homosexuals because i have a gay friend hus 1of ma best m8s, yer every1 has a gay phase in puberty (im in it now( but i av a gf nd i wudnt leave her so.....

[Hyper]

Hyper. That is an awful thing to say. Just because they are different doesnt mean they are "freaks". I hate the word freak, it's applied to anyone who stands out or defys stereotypes. It's pathetic. Just because there are those who arent the norm, doesnt mean they are weird or strange or freaks. To them, ya'll are the freaks. How about that?


Hmm the parades that have been in this country and filmed are full of ppl who are corss dressers, pierced to anhilation, shaved bold and painted their head for some reason, odd behaivour

As in some of them act like they are female..

[schrei jess]

Hmm the parades that have been in this country and filmed are full of ppl who are corss dressers, pierced to anhilation, shaved bold and painted their head for some reason, odd behaivour

As in some of them act like they are female..

Yes, I know what goes on in the parades, and I dont think they are weird - they are being themselves, and nothing else. Dont hate just because they dont hide who they really are.

Are you hiding yourself Hyper? Maybe you're just jealous they can show themselves and not be afraid.

[Hyper]

xD sorry but I would be qualified mad if I would go into any kind of serious discussions with you

And no I doubt that's who they are, if they are gay that doesn't mean they have to start cross dressing, acting like women and being bold? Or does it..?

[schrei jess]

xD sorry but I would be qualified mad if I would go into any kind of serious discussions with you

And no I doubt that's who they are, if they are gay that doesn't mean they have to start cross dressing, acting like women and being bold? Or does it..?

Real mature, Hyper. Whatever, avoid the question, that's fine. Think about it though, maybe the reason you think they are weird and think they arent being themselves is because you are just hiding yourself and are afraid to show everyone who you are.

Some people just like to wear odd things, some men are just naturally more feminine, and some are just more out spoken and dont hold themselves back, again I must ask - why is this wrong, why does that make them weird?

[Hyper]

I must ask is it necessary for them to follow the gay stereotype set by homophobes?

[schrei jess]

If that is who they are, then I dont see the problem in them being true to it. The only reason homophobes set the stereotype to the more outspoken and more outrageous ones is just for that reason, the ones who are more comfortable with it are out in the open being who they are, while the others are afraid and are forced to hide.

[Hyper]

Have you ever considerd that psychologicly a stereotype that gets slammed in your face 200 times every day would cause one to become it?

[schrei jess]

Not really. I can see how it might but I dont think that it would. I get called emo all the time, but that doesnt mean Ive become emo. Ive been called hundreds of things actually, for years, but Ive yet to become any of them. I think you wont become them unless you want to.

[Hyper]

You just set examples by yourself, Jess not everyone thinks for themselves

[schrei jess]

I didnt understand that, sorry, could you explain better? I know Im a bit slow.

[Hyper]

See that's exactly what it means, not everyone think for themself

Why else would their be election campaigns?

[Melchi0r]

Not all gay people are over-effeminate or "freaky".

And on the topic of homosexuality, tonight me and my male friend George [false name] held hands though only for ten seconds. He didn't seem to mind at all, though!

[MoveAlong]

If you are gay as a middle schooler, and you see a straight guy that you like, do you tell him that you want to go out with him? Yes or No and Explain Why.

No. Being gay is considered, although really shouldn't be, taboo. I wouldn't say such a thing because I know that the guy is straight, and I have to respect that fact. I can't change that he's straight.

[DestroyTheFuture]

yes you can. That goes back to the original agruement.

[0=]

Prove that you can by showing us one factual example of that happening.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Okay, ever heard of someone who bi, turning gay or straight? exactly. If you havent, then get out into the real world and out of that cave osama.

anyways, in that case, that proves that gay people can become straight, and vise versa. Meaning, that you choose to be gay or straight.



you'll probably deny that too, so with that, ill repeat what ive been repeating for a long tie in this thread, and that is,

when you are too young to realize your sexuality, you arent straight, gay, or bi. Meaning that your asexual. this means that you are NOT gay! then, when you get older and realize your sexuality, you become gay.


IF YOU ARE NOT GAY AT ONE POINT IN OUR PAST, AND YOU ARE NOW GAY AT A DIFFERENT TIME, LATER THAN THAT TIME, THEN YOU TURNED GAY!



how hard is that to not understand?

[Maverick]

Okay, ever heard of someone who bi, turning gay or straight?
If you're bisexual then you can be with both. You can choose to live a gay relationship or a straight relationship.

Being gay is different though because they only like the same sex, just as a straight person only likes the opposite.

You can't help what you're attracted to. You can't pick that. Could you easily feel what you feel towards a girl to a guy if choosing was that simple?

You can say it's a choice in philosophical terms but in emotional terms (which matter), it's not.

[0=]

By that argument you choose to be straight or bi, but ask 1,000 straight people and they will say they didn't choose. Also, to say that children are asexual is wrong. You don't need to know what something is to take part in it. Young children have been known to masturbate, even babies, not because they know they'll have an orgasm, they rarely do it enough, but because it feels good. You will likely answer that masturbation does not show if you're straight, gay, or bisexual, but it does show that they are not asexual. You cannot have thoughts like wanting to have sex with someone if you don't know what sex is, but, "feeling differently toward guys", as it has been described by many, is proof of attraction to the same sex. To support this for straight people, young boys and girls flirt. They say they don't like each other, and that they're gross, but when the boys run from the girls and tease them saying they have cooties, it's flirtatious behavior.

:rolleyes:

[Melchi0r]

Thank you Michael for that great argument. I really had no idea babies masturbate! Learn something new everyday.

[MoveAlong]

yes you can. That goes back to the original agruement.

Could you quote my post so I'll know you're talking to me?? How do you suppose I would turn a straight guy gay? Can I do that to you?

IF YOU ARE NOT GAY AT ONE POINT IN OUR PAST, AND YOU ARE NOW GAY AT A DIFFERENT TIME, LATER THAN THAT TIME, THEN YOU TURNED GAY!
Maybe that petson hasn't discovered it yet. They probably just never really thought about it. Like getting into a new sport, being social, or other things. :|
In fact, I know a 60 year old guy who finally noticed he was gay after being married to a woman for 34 years. He probably never really thought about the whole concept, being a Mormen (as he was) he might have never really thought of gay at all.
See, you have to understand-


People only believe what they want to. They only see what they want to. So he probably just thought about straight relationships...so he had one. He had sex with a woman. That doesn't make him gay, that's just the life that he accepted. Like this:

Let's say someone is Jewish by genes. That doesn't mean they accept the fact they are Jewish and accept that religion - like Kolte, the guy who used to run this forum, Ramblings of the Wise.

See now, that is choosing...but I'm not talking about choosing to be gay. I'm talking about choosing to live a straight life, without knowing. It's just something you never think about. Like, a person who works as a garbage man. I never thought about that, I don't want to!
It's really strange, and since you don't know about it, or how I feel, you'll never know...

But like us, me. I don't want to change, and no matter what I don't think boobs and an ass or pussy is exiting. I like cock and abs, man! (could someone quote me on that? ;-))

[Melchi0r]

But like us, me. I don't want to change, and no matter what I don't think boobs and an ass or pussy is exiting. I like cock and abs, man!

=D

[tjd154]

anyways, in that case, that proves that gay people can become straight, and vise versa. Meaning, that you choose to be gay or straight.


HAHA, I've not heard many things that stupid. You can't really label people as gay/bi/straight, just as you can't categorise any human behaviour. If people are brought up to thing liking the opposite sex is wrong, they're less likely to do it, upbringing is one of the factors involved in sexuality. For example, in most ancient societies, bisexuality was alot more common than exclusive heterosexuality. Nobody chooses their sexuality, if that was true I probably would have saved myself all the trouble and been straight.

[Melchi0r]

MNHockey needs to understand, as we already stated, that just because you're a little kid who doesn't have feelings about liking those of the same sex, and realize it later, DOES NOT/ mean you're turning gay. Your homosexuality is dormant when you're a little kid (though some gay people can remember having feelings for those of the same gender during their childhood) and it is released when your body begins to change into adulthood. People who think they've turned gay or straight are fooling themselves and people who think others are able to switch their sexuality are really close-minded.

[MoveAlong]

MNHockey needs to understand, as we already stated, that just because you're a little kid who doesn't have feelings about liking those of the same sex, and realize it later, DOES NOT/ mean you're turning gay. Your homosexuality is dormant when you're a little kid (though some gay people can remember having feelings for those of the same gender during their childhood) and it is released when your body begins to change into adulthood. People who think they've turned gay or straight are fooling themselves and people who think others are able to switch their sexuality are really close-minded.

I completely agree with u! =) And that's the word I was looking for - Dormant!

[Melchi0r]

Glad to be of service =p
When do you think that gays will finally have equal rights? I think after George Bush goes, and depending on the next president, some pro-gay movements will begin to take place.

[serial-thrilla]

not for a long time, if ever will homosexuals be treated as equals in the united states.

[redcar]

When do you think that gays will finally have equal rights? I think after George Bush goes, and depending on the next president, some pro-gay movements will begin to take place.
Are you saying have equal rights or be treated as equals?
Gays have most of the rights straight people have.

As for being treated as equals... won't happen for a very long time.

[Melchi0r]

Well, kind of like civil rights, it seems more tolerable to be gay in the north U.S. than in the south, basically because the south is the "Bible Belt." The north is more liberal.

I think in order to get people to start treating gays equally there should be more gay-straight alliances, especially in schools.

[Ironic Infidel In England]

Not being straight is terrible in england, everyone goes: "oh, I don't mind gays/bis" but what they mean is: "I don't mind gays and bis as long as their not near me." It makes it very hard to keep freinds, because they're all like: "well, I still like you as a freind, but I don't want you hitting on me, so I think we'd beter stay apart."

Idiots. All homophobes seem to think they are irresistable to gays/bis. and they're not!

Sorry, had to get that out, and this seemed the best place.

[tjd154]

Not being straight is terrible in england, everyone goes: "oh, I don't mind gays/bis" but what they mean is: "I don't mind gays and bis as long as their not near me." It makes it very hard to keep freinds, because they're all like: "well, I still like you as a freind, but I don't want you hitting on me, so I think we'd beter stay apart."

Idiots. All homophobes seem to think they are irresistable to gays/bis. and they're not!

Sorry, had to get that out, and this seemed the best place.

This is soooooo true. When this one kid at my school found out I was bi, he got angry at me for not telling him who the other gay/bisexual people because he wanted to know who they were 'incase they were around him'. Some people assume that all gay/bi people are perverts who are desperate to have sex. As for the gay-straight alliance idea, saying that there should be an alliance seperates gay and straight people.

When are people going to ignore sexuality and just treat people as people!?!?!?

[Hyper]

Right.. It seems the whole world is completely silly..? Well most of you should know what I think, but just because someone who would be my friend, would turn out to be wouldn't mean anything wouldn't change.. I realy have only had 1 friend in my life and I don't let many ppl near me..

[Ryan_J]

This entire topic is so fundamentally flawed that I couldn't begin to counter it. Clearly the poster is set in his ways, and no amount of reasoning or debate will change that.

[Φρανκομβριτ]

I'm gay. I was straight at one point. I know that. Of course to some extent you choose to be gay, as much as a straight person chooses to be straight. It's your prefference. thats it.

[DestroyTheFuture]

I'm gay. I was straight at one point. I know that. Of course to some extent you choose to be gay, as much as a straight person chooses to be straight. It's your prefference. thats it.


how about that? there you go everyone. swallow your words.

anyways, i know you guys will come back with some studpid thing to say, so this is my pre-owning statement.

he was once straight...he liked girls and wanted to be with girls. now, he is gay, he wants to be with guys. therefor, he made a conscious decision within himself to be gay.


case closed, now you see why i am right. i just proved a living example. expect me to win the Nobel Prize in 2009 for my world renowned intelligent philosophical teachings.

[redcar]

That is one persons point of view. His view is as valid as everyone elses but at the end of the day it is one view. And just because you get someone who agrees with you doesn't necessarily close the case.

Sure by me stating that I didn't choose to be gay, can cancel it out and you are left back at square one. That is not proof of what you are saying because it is one person.

I could find a €10 on the floor and state that because I found it it is proof that there is money lying about everywhere. Doesn't work that way.

[Octo22]

Best example I can give is this: (sorry if this is deemed rude)

When you're born, do you enjoy anal sex?
No.
Much like how you don't like men to an extent.

When you're older, you may come across a picture and be turned on.
Whereas the next guy may be turned off by this type of sexual act.

The same can go for Gays and Straights, we don't CHOSE what will turn us on, it just occurs.

You can't "choose" to be gay. No matter how much I think of men, I can't get an erection from it, so I'm not gay. However show me a good woman and I can get one. I didn't pick to be straight, I was born this way, much like a man who enjoys anal sex would claim he was born that way.

and your ignorance for a 14 year old is actually quite astounding, I'm shocked you actually believe that you at age 14 know more than world leading psychologists/sociologists who've proven it's from birth.

[bahari mtoto]

To some extent its both a choice and something ur born with.
like wat Octo said u can't choose wat ur turned on by but u can choose to either accept being gay or u can ignore it and try out being straight and possibly change ur sexual prefrences.

P.S the tests that were taken to prove that being gay comes from birth were actually marked inconclusive and its still under investigation

[Dante]

if ur gay and u decide to live a straight life, it does not take away from the fact that you prefer guys, hence making u still gay!

[MoveAlong]

Stop being an ass, Hockey. You're not making us laugh!

And don't rub it in our faces...you can never convince any of us that our opinions are wrong and we can't do that to you. You're just being an as by rubbing it in our face. Alex is right, it's just one person's opinion, but that doesn't mean it applies to us! And I still stand by what I said...it's a very strange thing and you wouldn't know about it and you never will.

It's hard...a fetish? An opinion? You JUST like it? Idk.

some extent

[DestroyTheFuture]

another argument is that if you are brought up with two dads, and brought up completely to knwo that being gay is as normal as being striaght, then you are FAR more likely to choose to be gay when you are of the age.

i was brought up by striaght parents, and i didnt find out what homosexuality was until i was about 8. i had already known that i was straight before then.

now, since i know what you guys are going to say,"you didnt choose to be straight". actually, i did. i was not straight when i was born, i was asexual. so, when i was of the age where i found out that i liked the opposite sex, i was straight, but before then, i was not. therefore, i turned straight.

everyone in here disagrees with me, and thats funny because everyone in here has had that experience but is either too dumb to realize it, or are just in denial.

the case is closed, because i proved a fault in your statement. you will tell me that you and many others have proved fault in mine. but, since my argument is so stable and legitimate, it is unable to be proven of a different answer than mine.

[redcar]

so, when i was of the age where i found out that i liked the opposite sex, i was straight, but before then, i was not. therefore, i turned straight.

Ok so you found out that you liked the opposite sex? There is a difference in finding out and choosing. You didn't choose you found out.

And the case isn't closed because you are contradicting yourself.

[MoveAlong]

another argument is that if you are brought up with two dads, and brought up completely to knwo that being gay is as normal as being striaght, then you are FAR more likely to choose to be gay when you are of the age.
That isn't true though.

everyone in here disagrees with me, and thats funny because everyone in here has had that experience but is either too dumb to realize it, or are just in denial.
I'm offended that you would say something like that. You don't know us as individuals and you can't judge from that high of authority.

[Octo22]

the case is closed, because i proved a fault in your statement. you will tell me that you and many others have proved fault in mine. but, since my argument is so stable and legitimate, it is unable to be proven of a different answer than mine.

So basically you just said
"I'm right, you're wrong. No matter what!"

Yet ignored all posts on this page because you couldn't contradict them.

YOU MY SIR, HAVE FAILED.

[serial-thrilla]

there is no way that its a choice. noone would choose to be gay it makes life a hell of alot harder.

[DestroyTheFuture]

yes they would choose to be gay.

life is only harder if they let it make it harder

[redcar]

Give me a reason why I would choose to be gay. Living in constant fear of rejection, afraid to let people know who you really are... yes being gay is really a lifestyle I really wanted.

[DestroyTheFuture]

if you knew that your life would be much harder, then why did you tell people.


your life is only harder because you told people that you are gay.

answer that please.

[Dante]

So it is better to hold something like that in, which could cause psychological and emotional damage, than to be your true self? is that what ur saying?

[redcar]

Why are you presuming I have told people?

I can tell you that three people know. And that is because they are very very very close friends. I told them and that was the end of it. We don't talk about my sexuality because I am not comfortable being gay. My life is hard, and its not because I have told people.

So explain why my life is so hard?

[DestroyTheFuture]

you and a lot of other people are telling me that no one would choose to be gay because it makes their life harder. it only makes their life harder because others give them a hard time about it. how would other people know without the person actually telling them? exactly.

and Dante, you asked me if keeping a secret that you were gay to yourself would cause emotional and mental damage. i think that there would be just a tad bit more emotional and mental damage done if people made fun of them because they were gay.


once again, because some of you might not have understood what i have said, i will explain it again.

THE ONLY REASON WHY YOUR LIFE WOULD BE A LIVING HELL IS BECAUSE OTHERS MAKE IT LIKE THAT. THE ONLY WAY THAT OTHERS MAKIE IT LIKE THAT, IS IF YOU TOLD SOMEBODY. OTHERS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE YOUR LIFE HELL BECAUSE YOU WERE GAY UNLESS YOU TOLD SOMEONE THAT YOU WERE.

ALSO, IF YOUR LIFE IS HELL BECAUSE YOUR GAY, AND YOUR THE ONLY ONE MAKING IT HELL, THEN YOU HAVE FAR, FAR WORSE PROBLEMS THAN YOUR OWN SEXUALITY TO BE CONCERNED OF.

[redcar]

No you really are not grasping my point. Its all about the attitude of people towards gay people that is the problem. If you new that some people could turn on you because of something you dont have control over, and I will repeat that SOMETHING THAT YOU DONT HAVE CONTROL OVER, can make your life so difficult. Because you will always think "what if someone finds out by accident?" etc. etc.


and Dante, you asked me if keeping a secret that you were gay to yourself would cause emotional and mental damage. i think that there would be just a tad bit more emotional and mental damage done if people made fun of them because they were gay.

And its with statements like this that prove that you know nothing about homosexuality. I find it amusing that you think you know what you are talking about when in fact you are talking total crap.

[schrei jess]

And if people even have the smallest idea that you might be gay, they pounce on it. Even if you arent gay, if you arent masculine enough or "tough" enough, they can break you down to pieces for it. You dont even have to be gay to be called gay, so if you are gay but havent told anyone, you can still have a tough life for it because of the possibility that you dont act manly enough.

[DestroyTheFuture]

the way you act is your own choice. you can change the way you are depending on other people's preference.


i do not think that doing that is ideal, but the basic point is that if others make fun of you for something, you have the power to change it. if you dont take hold of the opportunity to change it, than you deserve to be made fun of because you are not dedicated enough to stand up to others.



also, Jess, who associated homosexuality with non-masculinity? I think that its terrible that you would set homosexual males into that kind of stereotype. Thats disgusting that you would do that; i cant even believe you!

[redcar]

Ok right now I am going to just say, MNHockey11, what you are doing is argueing something you know nothing about and you are starting to insult members who do know what they are talking about. You are twisting words, something I don't particularly like. Now consider this an official warning, what you are curently doing could be considered trolling. Please also do not argue with me about this in this thread, if you have a problem PM me.

But I am warning you, you are starting to go too far.

[Unpresentable]

Hockey, you completely missed what Jess said. she wouldn't stereotype gays, if you knew her at all then you wouldn't assume it.

[MoveAlong]

THE ONLY REASON WHY YOUR LIFE WOULD BE A LIVING HELL IS BECAUSE OTHERS MAKE IT LIKE THAT. THE ONLY WAY THAT OTHERS MAKIE IT LIKE THAT, IS IF YOU TOLD SOMEBODY. OTHERS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE YOUR LIFE HELL BECAUSE YOU WERE GAY UNLESS YOU TOLD SOMEONE THAT YOU WERE.

This is true
However, how can you know gay is a choice if you are straight? Maybe you prefer women so much that you think that you have chosen it; maybe what you're your really feeling (although I can't speak for you) is that you would never choose to be gay, and you think that the attraction to women is so strong that you believe that others wouldn't not be in their right mind to choose otherwise.

Can I ask you this: Do you dislike or descriminate against gays in any way?

It's hard being gay in such a straight-dominated world...it's very hard that people think it's wrong for some reason, although no one is suffering. Do you think someone is suffering because of this?

But the argument is gay choice. I wouldn't choose; never. But for some reason I have an urge - like an instinct - I just think that guys are hot, and that's what gets me hard. I don't think that could be a choice. Since I know I'm gay and I dislike the woman body sexually, I wouldn't choose to be straight because I find women sexually discusting. It's me, it's something that I can't change. If you don't believe me, if you don't trust me, then I can take that of the fact that you think I have a mental illness. :|

[schrei jess]

Hockey are you trying to make me upset?

You know GOOD and WELL, I wouldnt stereotype gays. Maybe you dont, you dont know anything about me, because if you did - you'd know how much I love gay guys, and I support them fully. And every post you make, it becomes more and more obvious how much you DONT know about any of this. All that comes out of your mouth is CRAP.

[BillyWitchDoctor.com]

Okay, ever heard of someone who bi, turning gay or straight? exactly. If you havent, then get out into the real world and out of that cave osama.

anyways, in that case, that proves that gay people can become straight, and vise versa. Meaning, that you choose to be gay or straight.



you'll probably deny that too, so with that, ill repeat what ive been repeating for a long tie in this thread, and that is,

when you are too young to realize your sexuality, you arent straight, gay, or bi. Meaning that your asexual. this means that you are NOT gay! then, when you get older and realize your sexuality, you become gay.


IF YOU ARE NOT GAY AT ONE POINT IN OUR PAST, AND YOU ARE NOW GAY AT A DIFFERENT TIME, LATER THAN THAT TIME, THEN YOU TURNED GAY!



how hard is that to not understand?
not to go back on old points, i dont really wana get involved w/ this topic anyway, for one, Hockey doesnt know what he's talking about and it seems like under pressure he's just blurting sshit out
"when you are too young to realize your sexuality, you arent straight, gay, or bi. Meaning that your asexual." WOW, i have never heard a more stupid point in my life. do u know what Asexual means?? asexual is a biological term, if an organism is asexual that means it only needs itself and reproduces by itself. The term Asexual cannot be used to describe a human becase no matter what, humans are sexual. A test tube baby is not spawned out of a mother or father. To make a human, u need a sperm from a male and an egg froma female, which constitutes humans to be SEXUAL creatures. when people cant argue a point correctly and throw in terms they think others wont know just to shut them up, i see no point in arguing

[schrei jess]

actually im asexual, so yeah....wrong on that point Billy.

Asexual is also used to describe a person who is not sexually attracted to either sex.

[DestroyTheFuture]

id like to point out something here.

Alex, why do you call me out, when i am defending you on your lifestyle, but then you let Jess insult me without a public warning? You may say because Jess is a better person, maybe more preferrable to you, w/e the case. But, i think that the reason i am disciplined more by you is because you have grown to dislike me, in which i think that you have a bias over me. I also think that you should not have a bias over certain people to be a proper Admin, which many on this site consider a role model.

Now, Jess, i know that you wouldnt insult a gay person, but its not the fact that YOU did it. This happens everyday, that homosexuality is associated with non-masculinity and many others do it. Even people similar to you do it, maybe not meaning it derogatorily, but it still happens.

[schrei jess]

exactly, it happens, and that is why i stated it. if i could change the way things are, i would - but the fact is, the world views gay males as unmasculine, and that's why i said it.

but you called me out and made me look like an ASS when i didnt do anything wrong, and that is why alex said something. you know that wasnt how i meant it and you know you were just trying to get me upset, and that's why alex warned you. not because he likes me better, but because you were in the wrong.

[redcar]

What did I say about questioning what I did?
Now I "called you out" on it because I don't want to give you an infraction. A warning is just a warning, letting you know that if you go further you will get an infraction resulting in you being banned. Believe it or not I don't want to ban you. Now if you would like to call into question my postion as an Admin, do not do it here. You have two options, post a thread in the HQ forum or PM directly another Admin, such as Kiros. Please use those methods.

Also all your posts are currently being moderated, i.e. they are being approved by a Moderator/GMod/Admin before the rest of the site can see them, which I have been currently doing. If I were to show bias they would be deleted before anyone else could see them.

[BillyWitchDoctor.com]

actually im asexual, so yeah....wrong on that point Billy.

Asexual is also used to describe a person who is not sexually attracted to either sex.

damn, i felt like i was getting at something there *embarased face*

[Hyper]

What realy seems to me is that the unmasculine part is false

As most men who werent openly gay, always tried to be as 'manly' as they could

And generally I think that its only a small amount of gays who start acting.. Well strange

Of course a person can be strange without being gay :P

[Ironic Infidel In England]

Yeah, most gays are normal guys like our freind alex, not weird crossdressers.

[schrei jess]

Crossdressing isnt that weird >:(

[Ironic Infidel In England]

I didn't say it was. I said weird crossdresserers, meaning they crossdress AND are weird, not that crossdressing is weird. I don't mind it at all.

[dannyley]

i find crossdressing a bit queer, i mean who wants to wear there moms clothes?

[Melchi0r]

If I were a cross dresser I don't think I'd like wearing my mom's clothes.

[Mannequin]

Homosexuality, what is it really?

let me start off with this by saying formally, "I am not against homosexuals in any way, and i am not homophobic. I respect their decisions and actions, as long as they respect mine."

almost every single gay person in the world will disagree with me on the next thing i am about to say, and if you are gay and you believe in this statement, please tell me, i'd love to be friends!


-YOU ARE NOT BORN GAY! See, i believe that people who are gay tell people that they were born gay. What this does, is reduces and/or prevents the usage of insults towards gay people, because then gay people just say, "you cant make fun of me because i cant help it! God made me this way and i cant change!"

So here's the question, were you gay when you are 2 years old? Did you go around and know and admit to at least yourself that you sexually preferred males? Now, many of you probably think im stupid and ignorant by asking that, but this is why my opinion on this whole situation is right...People say that you aren't Straight, Gay, or Bisexual until you get older and your hormones start developing. But, this still means that you turned gay when you were whatever age, lets just say 10 as a even answer. Thats the thing, its funny how people defend my argument by saying that you find out your gay when you're older, you just aren't when you're very young. But, even if you find out you are gay when your 10, you still WERENT gay when you were 5. This means, that by not being gay at one time in your life, to being gay at another, you turned gay. Nobody is born gay, everyone is born straight. But, at a time in your life, you decide that youd rather be sexually intimate with the same sex rather than the opposite sex.

I'm sick and tired of gay people telling everyone else that its not their fault that they are gay. It's just some lame excuse that people make up so they arent allowed to get made fun of.

What's my reasoning behind my belief? Because i know that i could be gay right now, actually...i just turned Gay...now im straight again! See, thats exactly how it works, i just turned gay for 3 seconds of my life and turned straight again.

Almost every Bisexual person agrees with me on my argument, because every Bisexual person was Straight at one time, and then they decided that they like the same sex too, so they consider themselves Bisexual.

Also, i'm not religious at all, in fact, i'm athiest. That means that nothing to do with religion plays into this. I was once a Christian, because i was brought up Christian, but about 18 months ago, i realized how there are many untrue things about Christianity. So, if you want to bring religion into this then go ahead, but i dont think it is necessary.


Congratulations, whether you are Straight, Gay, or Bi, you have just been convinced or reassured that what i am saying is 100% true and common knowledge.

OMG. wow, this really throws in the cake. You are incredibly ignorant and all aspects of this topic. I am a gay male. Nothing I can possib;ly do will make me want to have sex with a female. I WANT to live a normal life and be with a woman, but I can't. They have done studies..actual scientific studies..with actual INTELLIGENT people that have disproven everything you are for. Why would millions of teenagers choose to be gay? You are afucking idiot. You are not gay and have no knowledge and speak bullshit in every topic in this debate forum you have begun. Just stay out of this forum if you cannot contribute your proof. You have taken your facts from one sole speciman, yourself. You, yourself, are an incredibly horrible person to test on the first place. Secondly, people are different. You cannot speak for 7 billion people.
You fail, again!

[Mannequin]

if you knew that your life would be much harder, then why did you tell people.


your life is only harder because you told people that you are gay.

answer that please.

Because he is gay. He can't change that. He must accept it and live his life. You contradicted everything you said in your opening statements and lack in intellect. Please research. If you became blind, would you pretend to see so no one would know? exactly. You are full of shit and know nothing.


find one thing for me smartass::

A gay person that chose to be gay.
Someone who was born straight and forced themselves to be gay.
EXACTLY.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Must you troll me fellow member?



don't try to speak for me by the way, because, i have found a person who chose to be gay, and putting me in a blindness situation is not related to this on the same concept. i dont believe that person can choose to be blind, but i do believe that they can choose to be gay.

you need to shut the fuck up buddy. all you can do to me, is throw tiny insults to make others seem like you have won this thread. in the second post, you didnt even relate to the quote that you gave. because, i AM right on that. no one will know that your actually gay unless you tell them, or give EXTREMELY obvious signs to them....which is still your own fault.

i also don't care if scientists have done studies. i have also done studies, and my studies are as good as anyone else's. the only thing that scientists are, are scientists. nothing makes them better or smarter than me, no matter the education, or raising. it doesnt matter if they specialize in "Sexuality Research". there have been plenty of people who were not specialized in anything, and were complete geniuses, in fact, much smarter than they specialists.

Albert Einstein
John Pemberton
Trey Parker
Matt Stone
Frank Lloyd Wright

the list continues.


i also do not want to see you treating members like that in this thread. whether i am able to issue that warning or not, i dont want to see it. this thread that i created was not meant for insult and stress removal within. please respect me and everyone else in this thread, along with all of the other ones that i make.

[Dante]

which college did u graduate from? omg can u tell me the name of the medical school you went to? what was the application process like, how did you do on ur MCAT or ur USMLE board. Which hospital are you interning in?

since ur "research" is as valids as a scientist--I really want to know

[schrei jess]

lmao Future dude, you did the same thing he did, such a hypocrite.

You are NOT smarter than a scientist. They have years of experience, you're what...14? Yeah, so no. Not smarter than someone trained in the medical/science field - you're making yourself look like an arrogant ass, y'know?

And the quote related to the first thing he typed, did you not read it? Dont get ahead of yourself with insulting people.

[Hyper]

He is 15 and claims to be a genius such as Albert Einstein :lol:

[Mannequin]

Must you troll me fellow member?



don't try to speak for me by the way, because, i have found a person who chose to be gay, and putting me in a blindness situation is not related to this on the same concept. i dont believe that person can choose to be blind, but i do believe that they can choose to be gay.

[No you haven't. They are not gay then. That is not homosexual by definition.
Chosing to be gay is different from being gay. Yeah, I'll bug you until you get the point that you suck at debating?


you need to shut the fuck up buddy. all you can do to me, is throw tiny insults to make others seem like you have won this thread. in the second post, you didnt even relate to the quote that you gave. because, i AM right on that. no one will know that your actually gay unless you tell them, or give EXTREMELY obvious signs to them....which is still your own fault.

I need to shut up? You are the one losing the argument. LOL. I am taking your posts bit by bit and tearing them apart. Hahah, you contradict everything you stand for. If being gay was a choice, then why would you hide that choice? You know nothing. Why would anyone want to live a life in fear of rejection from peers, future coworkers, friends, and even their own parents? You think they chose that? I certainly didn't sign up to be gay. You can pretend to be straight, but you AREN'T. You are only what you are not what you want to be. I want to be britney spears..am I? No. Exactly. Answer that.

You are right on nothing.

i also don't care if scientists have done studies. i have also done studies, and my studies are as good as anyone else's. the only thing that scientists are, are scientists. nothing makes them better or smarter than me, no matter the education, or raising. it doesnt matter if they specialize in "Sexuality Research". there have been plenty of people who were not specialized in anything, and were complete geniuses, in fact, much smarter than they specialists.

Albert Einstein
John Pemberton
Trey Parker
Matt Stone
Frank Lloyd Wright

the list continues.


i also do not want to see you treating members like that in this thread. whether i am able to issue that warning or not, i dont want to see it. this thread that i created was not meant for insult and stress removal within. please respect me and everyone else in this thread, along with all of the other ones that i make.

I will respect you if you come up with legit arguments instead of throwing false bullshit at me. Also, those scientists were professionals. They had degrees and many of them were professors. They were not idiots throwing crazy shit at others. Also, none of them did work with sexuality..so your fight is slowly dying. The difference between their work and your "work" is quite different. They are highly respected/intelligent individuals whose work has/have been agreed upon with people with degrees.

PLEASE, tell me how a 14/15 year old boy who has not taken science courses other than maybe the basics knows all of this information and has "work" that is equivalent to einstein's? If you did you would have already graduated and you would have friends and would not be sharing...actually you havent shared...your supposed work in a psychiatric ward forum.

I have no tolerance for people like you.

[Octo22]

WE SHOULD ALL START USING CAPS, CAUSE I HEARD WHEN YOU YELL IT GETS THROUGH IGNORANCE.

[/kidding]

Ok dude, you're seriously taking this too far.

I've already disproven what you said, through the anal sex reference. I wouldn't CHOOSE to be turned on by that, it's just IN MY HEAD. Paedophiles (sp?) don't choose to like children, it's a mental disease. I trust people with neuron reading scopes much over this 14 year old being all "I have this one friend, who chose to be gay."

I don't think anyone CHOOSES. Sure, some people DISCOVER they're gay later on in life, and DECIDE to tell people. But that's the only thing to be said in the decision making process personally.

GENETICS. Something you seem to be lacking right now to have compared yourself to Einstein. Wait, did einstein CHOOSE to be smart? Nope, born that way.

Now tell me, what are these "studies" you've done?

[DestroyTheFuture]

god dammit people, open your eyes, im 15 you fucking idiots.

i'm not responding to Manny Man's post because if would take too much for me to type, and i have homework, but i will respond to you Octo.

i did not compare myself to Einstein. i said that you don't need a proper education to be smart, and i listed examples of people who did not have proper education, but were still smart.

secondly, if i do have 1 friend, that chooses to be gay, then it contradicts your arguments. 1 person who chose to be gay means that you can choose to be gay. he IS gay, he is sexually, mentally, and emotionally attracted to males, and he knows that he is. i know that he is, and other people do too.

thirdly, pedophiles DO choose to be pedophiles.

[redcar]

secondly, if i do have 1 friend, that chooses to be gay, then it contradicts your arguments.

Well you do know that by me saying that I didn't chose to be gay, that cancels your arguement. Kind of like +1 and -1, cancel each other out. To make your arguement work you will need more than 1 person I am afraid.

[Mannequin]

god dammit people, open your eyes, im 15 you fucking idiots.

I am aware.

i'm not responding to Manny Man's post because if would take too much for me to type, and i have homework, but i will respond to you Octo.

i did not compare myself to Einstein. i said that you don't need a proper education to be smart, and i listed examples of people who did not have proper education, but were still smart.

Actually, they were educated. Do you know the qualifications it takes to be a professor? Exactly. You DID indeed compare yourself to Einstein, "my work is just as good as theres."

secondly, if i do have 1 friend, that chooses to be gay, then it contradicts your arguments. 1 person who chose to be gay means that you can choose to be gay. he IS gay, he is sexually, mentally, and emotionally attracted to males, and he knows that he is. i know that he is, and other people do too.

thirdly, pedophiles DO choose to be pedophiles.

No pedophiles do not chose to be pedophiles. OMG, you have no first hand experience with any of this!! Your arguments are flawed to such an extent it's insane. Every gay member on this website has informed you that they did not chose, so your friend must be unique and his experiences are not the same to my or many others experiences. ALSO, how do you know your friend isn't lying? How do WE know that this "friend" even exists? Exactly. Your argument is shit and its apparent that everyone here agrees.

[Octo22]

"thirdly, pedophiles DO choose to be pedophiles."

No, there's a choice on ACTING it, which is illegal.

Thinking it isn't, I don't choose my thoughts. I choose my thoughts as much as I choose my taste-buds.

Now dude, I suggest you LEAVE this debate, it's all of VT (many older than you) versus you.

but clearly you're in that stage of life where "I KNOW MORE THAN EVERY SCIENTIST CUZ I'VE GOT LIFE EXPERIENCE" stage.

[DestroyTheFuture]

Well you do know that by me saying that I didn't chose to be gay, that cancels your arguement. Kind of like +1 and -1, cancel each other out. To make your arguement work you will need more than 1 person I am afraid.


i dont believe that Alex. see, i believe that by me having a friend that is gay, and chose to b gay, that it sets the standard that it is POSSIBLE to choose t be gay.

and, in my mind, i think that everyone has that choice. but, i can see where you get the +1 and -1 from. its just that, i don't believe that it cancels my argument out if you say that you didn't choose to be gay. i have my reasons, and i have my evidence, and i am sticking with it.

but what, if i had another friend, and then 2 other say that they didn't choose to be gay, is that +2, -2? see, it's a similar concept.

[DestroyTheFuture]

ALSO, how do you know your friend isn't lying? How do WE know that this "friend" even exists? Exactly. Your argument is shit and its apparent that everyone here agrees.

i'm extremely glad that you said that, you just started digging your own grave.

how do I know that any of you actually ARE gay? how do I know that any of you are ACTUALLY males? see, everyone on this site, as well as i, could be living fake identities on VT. its extremely easy.

in fact, my identity is respectively fake, only so my other friends dont see some personal things that i post. i've changed my user name a few times because of this.

in the words of a complete dickhead, "Exactly."


also, not everyone on here agrees that my argument is shit. i'm on here, and i don't think that m argument is shit. learn to word your sentences properly, because you look very stupid when you tell me that even i think my argument is shit. now i bet that you'll try to find some shitty excuse that my grammar isn't perfect, then go ahead...it only makes you look even stupider and idiotic than you are already.

[MoveAlong]

Here's what I think: I think that if a group of gays say they chose to be gay and another group of gays say that they didn't chose, then it's inconclusive. We could speculate that one side is confused and the other side is right. But then again, that doesn't prove anything as there is no proof to who is right for certain and who's not.

The proof isn't the person's opinion because there's multiple opinions.

I guess there is no way of telling, only our own personal opinion. I say that I didn't chose. Your friend says he does. That kinda cancels it out and kinda doesn't - that simply means there's no way of knowing. If you think of it that way, it's a stalemate...

[Octo22]

Anyone above the age of 6 would know when I say all of VT vs. You.

I'm counting you as ostricized from the group.


"sets the standard that it is POSSIBLE to choose t be gay. "

Completely disagree. It's got to be a genetic code in ya mate. No matter how much I look at a guy, and try to be aroused by them, I won't.

For example, some people have a fetish that involves women pooping on them. I find this disgusting personally, but hey if we CHOOSE what turns us on.

Go on, get turned on by a woman dumping on you, go do it if it's so easy.

[MoveAlong]

Go on, get turned on by a woman dumping on you, go do it if it's so easy.

He's not gunna do that
And plus that could be choosing or not choosing
Fetishes can develop and can seem to appear from nowhere
But usually fetishes come from what you've been raised with and what you've been around.
For instance, for some reason I wasn't around blue eyed people a lot or didn't notice them when I was little.
But I really like blue eyed guys. I don't go crazy but I think it's neat.
But I'm still not really sure why :-/


Anyone above the age of 6 would know when I say all of VT vs. You.
Then I'm 5, because I still have the attention span to notice that not all of VT has replied. No offense man :whoops:

[Mannequin]

Am I the only one that finds it odd that ONLY his "friend" has chosen to be gay when everyone here at vt said that they didn't choose? Have any of you guys met someone that chose? no, doubt it..

[Mannequin]

i'm extremely glad that you said that, you just started digging your own grave.

how do I know that any of you actually ARE gay? how do I know that any of you are ACTUALLY males? see, everyone on this site, as well as i, could be living fake identities on VT. its extremely easy.

in fact, my identity is respectively fake, only so my other friends dont see some personal things that i post. i've changed my user name a few times because of this.

in the words of a complete dickhead, "Exactly."


also, not everyone on here agrees that my argument is shit. i'm on here, and i don't think that m argument is shit. learn to word your sentences properly, because you look very stupid when you tell me that even i think my argument is shit. now i bet that you'll try to find some shitty excuse that my grammar isn't perfect, then go ahead...it only makes you look even stupider and idiotic than you are already.

You are getting off topic and avoiding the true debate. You failed to analyze my post to its full extent and debate with it. Seeing that, I know that you cannot debate and are avoiding areas where you feel you have lost.

Also, how the hell do I look stupid when everyone in this forum agrees with ME and not YOU? Maybe it's because your ideas are poor. Even admins think you are stupid.

On the debate note, I know I'm gay because I have no attraction to females, but I do males. Does that answer your question? Also, about the whole internet thing. Many know I am real because I have actually met someone from vt before, unlike yourself.
Must I continue spoon-feeding you through these debates and guide you or are you actually going to express solid arguments?

BTW: please respond to the section of my last posts about scientist. You ignored it. Thank you.
Also, you changed your argument. You stated to begin with that everyone is born straight. Then, you tell Alex that it is only possible. As in, you now believe your argument is false. This should end the debate completely because you failed to stick with your debate.

[Octo22]

Then I'm 5, because I still have the attention span to notice that not all of VT has replied. No offense man :whoops:


DUDE, don't take the denotation, realize it's no more than a hyperbole to drive my fact in further.

Also, he ignored my post, GO GET TURNED ON BY POOP.

[Hyper]

Sure by DtF's theory, you could've met yourself as you couldve had 2 accounts but yeah

Let me just make this clear to you the internet anonymity is an illusion

But on the debate I liked Octo's post about chooseing to act on your 'feelings'

[Ironic Infidel In England]

Damn! I've been off for a few days, and I miss this? Not fair! Mannequin, Octo, I back you up. You are clearly skilled debaters, and I applaud you for it.

[DestroyTheFuture]

You are getting off topic and avoiding the true debate. You failed to analyze my post to its full extent and debate with it. Seeing that, I know that you cannot debate and are avoiding areas where you feel you have lost.

Also, how the hell do I look stupid when everyone in this forum agrees with ME and not YOU? Maybe it's because your ideas are poor. Even admins think you are stupid.

On the debate note, I know I'm gay because I have no attraction to females, but I do males. Does that answer your question? Also, about the whole internet thing. Many know I am real because I have actually met someone from vt before, unlike yourself.
Must I continue spoon-feeding you through these debates and guide you or are you actually going to express solid arguments?

BTW: please respond to the section of my last posts about scientist. You ignored it. Thank you.
Also, you changed your argument. You stated to begin with that everyone is born straight. Then, you tell Alex that it is only possible. As in, you now believe your argument is false. This should end the debate completely because you failed to stick with your debate.


i love how hypocritical you are. you just AVOIDED my proof on how i completely used your dumb ass argument on yourself. Also, if you knew anything about debating, then you would know that you leave the parts out that make yourself look bad. this makes you look better in front of the audience judging you. But, because i agree with getting all sides of an argument, i don't agree with making yourself look good by not answering questions.

also, how do many know that your real because you met someone from VT before? you haven't met MANY, you've met ONE person. everyone else you believed that person should reconsider their judgment because they don't know that the person that you met was telling the truth. this is a big and important philosophy that i go by, as saying, "you shouldn't believe something until you witness it for yourself."

but, good job buddy, you met someone from a teen website. everyone loves you now!

you also look stupid, because your debating methods are completely idiotically incorrect. everything that you say to me about how my debate lacks true competition and how i don't answer any of our questions is exactly what you do. i DON'T do that and my debating is near perfect, where as yours is nowhere near...sorry.


and the scientist thing. it doesn't matter if i went to Harvard (ex.) for any medical studying, or if i didn't. it plays some extent, because USUALLY the Harvard student would do better, but its been proven wrong on many occasions.

these occasions are the list of people that i wrote down earlier.

Albert Einstein
John Pemberton
Matt Stone
Trey Parker
Frank Lloyd Wright

i do agree however, that if you go to Harvard (or any other school that is prestigious), that you have a better chance of being smarter than a person who didn't. but, i am saying that it has been proven wrong on several occasions.

one actual example...me

i am an aspiring architect. i have won many awards from my state for my projects. i have professionally designed 1 of the major buildings in my city by myself, and i have worked with other architectural firms to build 2 more of the major buildings in my city. additionally, i have designed 6 residential houses. the combination of the houses' square footage totals over 25,000 square feet.

now, i haven't gone to a great art school, although i am extremely talented. i am more experienced, and also more talented than many architecture school graduates throughout the country. but the fact is that i don't need to receive great education to be better than the people who did receiver great education.

i am also NOT naturally architecturally gifted. i am naturally artistically gifted. i have always been a great artist and my dad is a real estate agent. put these two together and it basically spells out architecture. this started when i was 8, and i went to one of the bigger houses that my dad sold (9,000 sq. ft.). i was completely amazed and so i went home, grabbed computer paper, and designed my own house. throughout the years, i have kept this activity in my long term goals, and i have become extremely gifted, but i have received no education.

personal proof. but, that goes back to my other thing, how you cant necessarily believe me. I'd understand if you didn't believe me, but since i have witnessed this, i DO believe me. if you tell me that what i said up there was bullshit, not only will i laugh, but i will also see you as a complete asshole if i haven't already.

i have never changed my argument. show me proof, and i will be ready to defend and prove how i haven't changed my argument.


suck it.

[Octo22]

i love how hypocritical you are. you just AVOIDED my proof

and you avoided his, HELL YOU DIDN'T BRING UP HOMOSEXUALITY IN THIS POST.



you also look stupid, because your debating methods are completely idiotically incorrect. everything that you say to me about how my debate lacks true competition and how i don't answer any of our questions is exactly what you do. i DON'T do that and my debating is near perfect, where as yours is nowhere near...sorry.

No, his debating looks pretty intelligent compared to an entire paragraph made solely for insulting him.


these occasions are the list of people that i wrote down earlier.

Albert Einstein
John Pemberton
Matt Stone
Trey Parker
Frank Lloyd Wright


Y'know, many of these people weren't intelligent until after they fully hit puberty. (I'm commenting on age here, I don't care whether or not you've hit puberty; but again you guys seem to strive on denotations.)



personal proof. but, that goes back to my other thing, how you cant necessarily believe me. I'd understand if you didn't believe me, but since i have witnessed this, i DO believe me. if you tell me that what i said up there was bullshit, not only will i laugh, but i will also see you as a complete asshole if i haven't already.


So wait, we're supposed to believe EVERYTHING YOU SAY, because you CLAIM to be an architectural master. But, whenever we make a CLAIM (actually more arguments or opinions, that counter yours) WE'RE SUDDENLY COMPLETE ASSHOLES?

And you called us the hypocrites mate, I AM a hypocrite, everyone is. The sooner one admits it, the sooner they can improve on themselves. You've got your head to high up your architectural ass to see this blatent hypocricy.

Oh and yes, please go back to the homosexuality conversation considering YOU'VE STILL IGNORED ALL OF MY POSTS! Are my points just too hot to handle? ;D