Lgbtq

[humanesquire]

Would it be possible to change the name of the Teen Sexuality forum to encompass Trans* people? I know it's where we go anyways, but adjusting the name would allow others to be aware that this forum is a safe place to ask things. (Not trying to imply other places are unsafe.)

[TheMatrix]

Umm....I think that is already implied that you can discuss that there.
Besides, the help and advice forums are not there for people to judge and persuade you to change sexualities. I don't believe any part of this forum is for that.
So although it may be possible, it's already been done, sort of.

Geddit? :)

[humanesquire]

Allow me to be a little more forward, please. The word sexuality has nothing to do with gender identity. Is it possible to rename it to something that includes both?

[Tristin.]

i suppose it could be changed to "Teen Sexuality and Gender Identity" bit of a mouth full yes, but has a good ring to it and would be more informative and helpful in the long run, implying is all well and good, but surely stating would better benefit the person trying to find the help?

[Jess]

I don't see the need to change the name. maybe something about gender identity could be added in the description

[humanesquire]

That might be misunderstood because sexuality and gender identity are not the same

[Giles]

That's a fair point, but changing the title might not be the best idea. Perhaps Jess' idea of editing the description of the forum would be a better idea, so that the information would still be there.

[humanesquire]

How could the information be rightfully encompassed if it is put under an ill-fitting title?

[Giles]

Well if you're looking for somewhere to talk about that kind of thing, you're going to look at the Teen Sexuality section anyway. Then you're going to read the description. It's just what you'd do.

[humanesquire]

"That kind of thing"? That's a very insensitive way of putting it. And what you said is not necessarily true because if there is someone looking around the forum for the first time that knows the difference between sexuality and gender then they might be a little confused. I'm not saying Teen Sexuality and Gender Identity has to be the new title, but something simpler like LGBTQ Help.

[TheMatrix]

I'm not saying Teen Sexuality and Gender Identity has to be the new title, but something simpler like LGBTQ Help.
So, you're saying that it doesn't need a new title but it does need a new title. :confused:

Look, there's really no need for this. It will go just fine in the sexuality forum. There are already several threads about that there, I believe. I saw one as I was skimming through it just a moment ago.

[humanesquire]

A different title is what I was saying. One that will keep the forum true to what its about while acknowledging the other groups that have adopted the forum due to that fact that there isn't one explicitly for them

[TheMatrix]

A different title is what I was saying. One that will keep the forum true to what its about while acknowledging the other groups that have adopted the forum due to that fact that there isn't one explicitly for them
Yeah, I'm sorry, but I don't see this working.
You could try asking for a diary if you would like, and call it "LGBTQ Help". Would that work?

[kidkizzet]

I've thought the title should be changed for a while now. Sexuality and gender are two different things and I can see how people might think that the Teen Sexuality forum isn't the right place to ask a question concerning gender identity.

[Perseus]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I don't see this working.
You could try asking for a diary if you would like, and call it "LGBTQ Help". Would that work?

How would that not work? And not every new user is going to know what a diary is, so that'd be pointless for new users looking for help. They're not going to scour the forums for that section.

[Maverick]

Orientation, transsexual, and gender identity issues all relate to the concept of human sexuality. We don't need a long redundant name to encompass what is already obvious. Gender is actually the major building block of what makes up sexuality.

[ShatteredWings]

^^ Maybe, but gender and sexuality ARE two different things.

I'm for making it "Teen Sexuality and Gender Identity" or something along those lines.

[Angel Androgynous]

Yeah I agree on the title changing. ^_^ It would be nice. (:

[Giles]

"That kind of thing"? That's a very insensitive way of putting it.

I'd just like to point out that using that phrase isn't at all insensitive. It's a term used to describe anything. It's no different to saying it to describe playing video games.

I also agree with what it seems like most people have agreed on, slightly tweaking the name to make it more obvious, if it's deemed actually necessary.

[humanesquire]

I felt these would better explain my point. A picture is worth a thousand words
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldh74pCd9o1qfzz9mo1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhfgjdtJtJ1qhzoo9o1_500.jpg

[Schizothemia]

The only way I see gender being a major building block of sexuality is how we label a persons sexual identity (something I personally don't agree with, sexuality like everything else should be on a spectrum) and as such, using hard labels to define something like this can be insensitive, or could lead to massive misunderstanding and needing massive qualification.

I'm all for a more encompassing title as there are already pretty wordy titles. Ramblings of the Wise, The White Padded Room are pretty wordy in comparison to other forum names.

How hard would it be to come up with a general encompassing title for Gender Identity? Especially since it's an issue many teens struggle with as well? Even something as simple as: "Teen Sexuality and Gender" would imply a forum for discussion of teen sexuality, and gender related issues. And look it's in 4 words, something that seems to be a trend in some of the wordier titles.

I just don't see why there so much resistance to a small change in wording that could help numerous people on the forum who might not feel included because there isn't really a designated place for them to discuss their issues? Sure, it eventually leads up to them posting in teen sexuality, but thats only after they've had to search the forums for a place to post and they just settle down in Teen Sexuality. Not to mention, if it already ends up there, isn't that more of an argument to change the title? If people already post it there, why not help save people the trouble and provide a tiny bit more forum utility and accessibility?

[Ambrosia]

In all honesty you're very right. The majority of people who post post for their Sexuality and I'm sure that if it was aimed at both Sexuality of Gender specific questions that it would attract and even larger array of members. Even though the description technically explains it for you the name can be something that detours people away from there.

[Schizothemia]

Problems with sexuality? Or just want to share your experience identifying what yours is? This is the place for you.

This is the description copypasta'd straight from the forums. Upon reading that, I only assume this section to be for discussions of sexuality.

Like I mentioned earlier, while gender might be used to figure out how to label what your sexuality is, this description alone does nothing to open discussion for Gender concerns. Again, the only reason why this forum is the default for gender prone issues is because it's the only place where a question about gender wouldn't seem out of place.

So again, I bring up the point that by changing the name you make the entire section all encompassing and more accessible. And with a slight change in wording for the description, viola! You have a simple fix that makes everyone happy!

[TheMatrix]

How would that not work? And not every new user is going to know what a diary is, so that'd be pointless for new users looking for help. They're not going to scour the forums for that section.
If they're determined enough to talk about it, they should be able to figure that out eventually. It's just like saying "Oh, I want to post on this forum but I don't want to register."

This is the description copypasta'd straight from the forums. Upon reading that, I only assume this section to be for discussions of sexuality.
Well, it's not. And people use it for gender stuff anyways.

Like I mentioned earlier, while gender might be used to figure out how to label what your sexuality is, this description alone does nothing to open discussion for Gender concerns. Again, the only reason why this forum is the default for gender prone issues is because it's the only place where a question about gender wouldn't seem out of place.
Again, that's why people post there.

So again, I bring up the point that by changing the name you make the entire section all encompassing and more accessible. And with a slight change in wording for the description, viola! You have a simple fix that makes everyone happy!
And you'll also confuse a lot of people. If you want a forum for gender identity, you can make a diary. Post in this thread (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3928&referrerid=26170) to request one. There's a high chance you'll get one. ;)

[Perseus]

If they're determined enough to talk about it, they should be able to figure that out eventually. It's just like saying "Oh, I want to post on this forum but I don't want to register."


Well, it's not. And people use it for gender stuff anyways.


Again, that's why people post there.


And you'll also confuse a lot of people. If you want a forum for gender identity, you can make a diary. Post in this thread (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3928&referrerid=26170) to request one. There's a high chance you'll get one. ;)

God, you diary people are so annoying. That's not the solution to everything. What's wrong with altering Teen Sexuality? There's no reason why not to add to the description.

[Schizothemia]

If they're determined enough to talk about it, they should be able to figure that out eventually. It's just like saying "Oh, I want to post on this forum but I don't want to register."


Well, it's not. And people use it for gender stuff anyways.


Again, that's why people post there.


And you'll also confuse a lot of people. If you want a forum for gender identity, you can make a diary. Post in this thread (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3928&referrerid=26170) to request one. There's a high chance you'll get one. ;)

My question is, why is there so much resistance to changing it? If people do already post there I don't see the problem of changing it and making it more obvious?

Does altering Teen Sexuality's heading and description do any harm to the website or its purpose? No.

Does it make it more confusing? No, in fact it makes it more all encompassing and Gender queer friendly.

What exactly does it do that is a detriment to the site?

[Giles]

Wow, this has been made far more complex than it needed to be I can't see any negative aspects to tweaking the name I don't understand why it's been made into such a problem.

[jrl719]

Wow, this has been made far more complex than it needed to be I can't see any negative aspects to tweaking the name I don't understand why it's been made into such a problem.

Because you are not understand what the kid is trying to ask.

That or you're being too arrogant to realize he is right.

[humanesquire]

He's on my side, please don't start a flame war here

[jrl719]

He's on my side, please don't start a flame war here

Hmm, sorry I must have missed something, I won't say anything more.

[humanesquire]

Where is the harm in such a minor alteration? If it'll help this cause, I can put a poll up in Teen Sexuality to see how people over there might feel about it.

[ShatteredWings]

^^ Poll added here.

And you'll also confuse a lot of people. If you want a forum for gender identity, you can make a diary. Post in this thread (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3928&referrerid=26170) to request one. There's a high chance you'll get one. ;)

Lolwhut? No.

How would changing the title "confuse a lot of people"? It's making the forum more encompassing and more inviting to new lurking member and leaves *less* confusion IMO if gender can be posted there.

A lot of threads about gender are prefraced with "I don't know if this belongs here" or something to that effect which tells me that "Teen sexuality" doesn't encompas what the forum is meant to.

I'm willing to write up the tweaked info that the announcement and forum description would need.

[TheMatrix]

Lolwhut? No.

How would changing the title "confuse a lot of people"? It's making the forum more encompassing and more inviting to new lurking member and leaves *less* confusion IMO if gender can be posted there.

A lot of threads about gender are prefraced with "I don't know if this belongs here" or something to that effect which tells me that "Teen sexuality" doesn't encompas what the forum is meant to.

I'm willing to write up the tweaked info that the announcement and forum description would need.
-,-
*sigh*
Fine, do whatever, then.

[humanesquire]

The poll being moved here from my other thread seems kinda pointless. I was asking people that hadn't seen this thread in hopes of more support. It being here with a more limited range of people doesn't make sense to me.
EDIT: Now I feel kinda rude for posting that when progress was being made while I was typing

[ShatteredWings]

It's considered cross posting, Will.

[Scarface]

First of all, I believe if anything is going to be changed, it's going to be in the description that way it's 50/50 and everyone can be happy, and I think it's best that a new description be formulated to satisfy the needs. Though I would MUCH rather it stay Teen Sexuality for the facts of that's exactly what's mainly discussed in that forum and that, there can be something added into the description to show that gender discovery/discussion is also welcomed.

[ShatteredWings]

I don't see what's so difficult about adding "gender" to the title, other than getting into the admin stuffs and actually changing it manually

Leaving as just sayings "sexuality" trivliazies gender IMO

[humanesquire]

The things mainly discussed are LGB_Q. Would changing the name to Teen LGBTQ or something similar not make more sense? A title saying one thing and a description saying that one thing plus one more could be confusing.

[Malcolm Tucker]

I'm going to add my 2 cents purely from a moderator point of view. I don't think I've seen (or at least not in a LONG time) a misplaced thread that was about Gender Identity and wasn't in Teen Sexuality. I agree, it's vague and could trivialize it to an extent, but from a housekeeping POV it's not a huge issue, rather than a political one.

[ShatteredWings]

This is really less about the housekeeping and more about the trivialization. Most people *are* smart enough to make the jump, but.

Again, perfectly willing to write up everything.

[Schizothemia]

I'm going to add my 2 cents purely from a moderator point of view. I don't think I've seen (or at least not in a LONG time) a misplaced thread that was about Gender Identity and wasn't in Teen Sexuality. I agree, it's vague and could trivialize it to an extent, but from a housekeeping POV it's not a huge issue, rather than a political one.

And what exactly is wrong with a Political perspective?

The point is, by leaving it as simply sexuality, the issue of gender and gender identity become trivial. This is a huge issue for many people, sure it's isn't 100% of individuals, but how is it fair we neglect a minority of individuals from being included?

Also, I don't see how a change in title would make it any less discouraging to post about issues of sexuality in the forum. "Teen Sexuality and Gender" encompasses everything that is discussed in the forum. It's isn't discouraging nor is it confusing. It is as it reads and isn't that complex. And again, I bring up the point that even if all the threads end up there in the first place, isn't it simpler to save the user from having to make the mental jump from sexuality to gender and assume it's a similar issue when in actuality it's completely different? Is it really that difficult to add a couple of words here or there? I've run forums before and know it isn't that hard of a change from an administrative point of view.

[DoctorWho]

Don't care

[Syvelocin]

I would leave it as Sexuality. Here I think we're assuming that sexuality only includes who you like. That forum is for general sexuality. So it implies that the straights can talk about their shit and the curious kids going through puberty can ask if they're gay and the transgenders can mingle with other transgenders. We also get to discuss things like when you are ready for sex, protection, etc. It isn't just about orientation.

It is pretty wordy as well...

But if transgenders are okay with it being called LGBT then I don't understand how it doesn't fall under sexuality. I have a different gender identity as well but I'm not transgender, it could change the definition of the forum because then I could regale you all with opinions about gender stereotypes and being your own person, which would fit better in TWPR or ROTW currently.

[judahtics]

Would it be possible to change the name of the Teen Sexuality forum to encompass Trans* people? I know it's where we go anyways, but adjusting the name would allow others to be aware that this forum is a safe place to ask things. (Not trying to imply other places are unsafe.)

if sexuality includes LGBT trans is covered. it's the T. lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender both mtf and ftm

[Donkey]

Yeah, sure. Doesn't really make much of a difference - can only see it helping confusion a little.

[humanesquire]

if sexuality includes LGBT trans is covered. it's the T. lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender both mtf and ftm

You've got it backwards. LGBTQ covers sexuality, not the other way around.

[Syvelocin]

You've got it backwards. LGBTQ covers sexuality, not the other way around.

How? LGBT is sexual orientation. Sexuality is the general term. Sexuality is not only orientation, but anything sex-related as well.

[ShatteredWings]

How? LGBT is sexual orientation. Sexuality is the general term. Sexuality is not only orientation, but anything sex-related as well.

No, its not. that's the thing...


Yeah, sure. Doesn't really make much of a difference - can only see it helping confusion a little.
And what's wrong with helping confusion again?

[Syvelocin]

1. sexual character; possession of the structural and functional traits of sex.
2. recognition of or emphasis upon sexual matters.
3. involvement in sexual activity.

Am I missing something? :P

[ShatteredWings]

Gender identity is what's between your ears Rith, not legs. Which is what #1 is referincing, and why the distinction between gender and sexuality is so important for trans people.

[Syvelocin]

Oh, I understand that. Just from a view point of what the forum is about now, Teen Sexuality fits better unless we want to redefine the forum. And by redefining the forum there may be confusion as to where someone would want to discuss, say, your sexual morals, concepts that aren't related to orientation that are still discussed in this forum, because the noun sexuality isn't just about orientation. I know I'll never be able to quite relate as I'm someone who believes in gender neutrality but a change doesn't seem quite necessary when I'm sure most people understand it is also a place to discuss feelings about transgenderism. Otherwise, like I mentioned, the term LGBT wouldn't be very much used by the transgender community because it groups it into other plain sexualities when it doesn't encompass a taste in partners but in your own self-identity. Changing it to LGBT would scare off the plain sexuality questions, and adding Gender Identity to the title would add more to the definition of the forum because transgenderism isn't the only topic that fits under gender identity. Which, if we do want to add that to the definition, is fine by me, but it all depends on the intentions of whoever makes the final decision.

[Donkey]

And what's wrong with helping confusion again?

I'm saying it's a good thing. :)

[RockinRobyn]

I think its fine the way it is Sexuality can cover all Orientations :)

[humanesquire]

I think its fine the way it is Sexuality can cover all Orientations :)

It does. This would apply if transgenderism was a sexual orientation

[judahtics]

the only thing that is actually left out is I, which is intersex and isn't included, or shouldn't be included, in my opinion, in the LGBT title. just because you have an intersex condition doesn't put you on the homosexual or whatever, spectrum.

[Joe1996]

Just leave it how it is :P

[amscramhick]

I think LGBTQ would be more appropriate than teen sexuality. Especially because a lot of these kids are trans rather than gay or bi. They're pretty much the same forum, but I think it should be called LGBTQ rather than Teen Sexuality.

[ShatteredWings]

Please don't bump old threads