Are Churches and Religious Groups Hate Groups?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

I was on a another forum, and someone made a thread about the Westboro Baptist Church. One person remarked that the WBC is not a church, but a hate group. Another person asked what is the difference between the two and then there was this response:

I agree. If we use Christianity/the bible as the example, God definitely seems to be pretty cruel and hateful. Churches are pretty much inherently exclusive (as opposed to inclusive), which in and of itself breeds hate. If you believe I need to at least accept jesus to go to heaven/be a christian, then that is hateful towards me (due to the alternative).

What are your thoughts on this?

[Angel Androgynous]

WBC gives other churches a horrible name. Sure, what some churches preach hate, but that does not mean that churches need to be categorized with hate groups. Not all churches stand at soldier's funerals saying "thank god for dead soldiers." Some Christians are accepting, some are bible thumpers.... what we need to remember is that Christianity is a big umbrella. There are protestants, catholics, orthodox, roman orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Lutheranism, etc. etc.

[HaydenM]

WBC should be stopped. I'm sorry but going to a marine's funeral with signs with "thank god for dead soldiers", In my opinion there are two ways to deal with these people 9mm and .45

[Angel Androgynous]

WBC should be stopped. I'm sorry but going to a marine's funeral with signs with "thank god for dead soldiers", In my opinion there are two ways to deal with these people 9mm and .45

I know right! I want to strangle that Phelps woman with my own two bare hands......

The WBC takes advantage of freedom of speech...buncha pricks....

[HaydenM]

mm I don't start to say I know anything about the american constitution or things like that (I'm Aussie) but these people are moronic. Although I might not believe in the war or it's execution I have the utmost respect for the soldiers fighting the war. To go to one of their funerals with offensive placards is just plain horrible.

[Angel Androgynous]

mm I don't start to say I know anything about the american constitution or things like that (I'm Aussie) but these people are moronic. Although I might not believe in the war or it's execution I have the utmost respect for the soldiers fighting the war. To go to one of their funerals with offensive placards is just plain horrible.

It is. In fact, the Phelps woman made a website talking about how one of the dead soldiers was a "fag" and deserved to die or whatever and she was spreading rumors on the internet. I hate her so much. -.-U

[PerpetualImperfexion]

My grandfather was once asked "Do you support the war?". He replied "No, but I support the men fighting the war." Honestly, some people are just morons.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__Z2yyDPdY0Y/SH8WaG8wHbI/AAAAAAAAABs/yOgJsjcJzvA/s400/Retards.jpg

[Amnesiac]

The only reason the WBC exists is because people like you guys take them so seriously. So what, they hate soldiers and protest their funerals. Getting angry and bitchy about it is exactly what they want you to do.

Really, they have their opinions like everyone else. It's not like they're doing any actual harm beyond acting like complete idiots; protesting funerals isn't really that extreme when you consider what other groups that have similar ideologies to them do. They're exercising their right to free speech, fully within the boundaries of the law.

Until the WBC actually start illegally violating the rights of others, any complaining about them is just giving them the attention they've thrived on for decades.

[Angel Androgynous]

The only reason the WBC exists is because people like you guys take them so seriously. So what, they hate soldiers and protest their funerals. Getting angry and bitchy about it is exactly what they want you to do.

Really, they have their opinions like everyone else. It's not like they're doing any actual harm beyond acting like complete idiots; protesting funerals isn't really that extreme when you consider what other groups that have similar ideologies to them do. They're exercising their right to free speech, fully within the boundaries of the law.

Until the WBC actually start illegally violating the rights of others, any complaining about them is just giving them the attention they've thrived on for decades.

Well okay, yeah they are idiots, but how rude is to stand around at a funeral saying thank god for that person's death? I personally would be pissed off! :c I mean they are kinda violating the family's rights to mourning peacefully by standing at the funeral waving signs that preach hate.

[Amnesiac]

Well okay, yeah they are idiots, but how rude is to stand around at a funeral saying thank god for that person's death? I personally would be pissed off! :c I mean they are kinda violating the family's rights to mourning peacefully by standing at the funeral waving signs that preach hate.

Well, people need to learn to get less pissed off, then. Words are just words. They can be ignored; it's really not that hard.

The WBC isn't legally violating anybody's rights when they protest on public grounds. There's no such thing as the "right to mourn peacefully," really, and I'm sure the family can get plenty of privacy once they're at the funeral, away from the WBC protesters who are limited to the streets outside.

I'm not defending the actions of the WBC in any way, I'm just saying that people really do get too worked up over them. The only way to make them go away is to ignore them. If you're emotionally strong enough, even the most "offensive" of words will mean nothing.

[pageplant77]

WBC is the worst example of Religion/Church. I don't know how a church could go so wrong.
I'm a Lutheran and my church is nothing like that. Our whole congregation is made up of the best people you could ever meet. Our church does donations, LWML charity missions, and our pastor preaches nothing but peace and understanding (what Jesus intended)

But unfortunately, our constitution protects it. But seriously, nobody's taken them to court for disturbing the peace or something like that?

[HaydenM]

Justin, although I see your point I disagree fully. If you were at your father's funeral and you were paying your final respect to him and you had someone thanking god for him dieing I highly doubt you would be saying it is "only words".

[Genghis Khan]

Justin, although I see your point I disagree fully. If you were at your father's funeral and you were paying your final respect to him and you had someone thanking god for him dieing I highly doubt you would be saying it is "only words".

Those are just words, nothing more and nothing less. I've had monotheists tell me that my deceased uncle is probably burning in hell right now unless he actually asked for forgiveness before his death. It's only more than words when you let what assholes say get to you.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Thank you all for your thoughts, but you are getting off topic; I was asking about churches and religious groups IN GENERAL. Do you believe that all religious groups are hateful because of their alleged beliefs and their alleged exclusivity? Please see original post.

[RoseyCadaver]

My grandfather was once asked "Do you support the war?". He replied "No, but I support the men fighting the war." Honestly, some people are just morons.

image (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__Z2yyDPdY0Y/SH8WaG8wHbI/AAAAAAAAABs/yOgJsjcJzvA/s400/Retards.jpg)

That doesn't make him retarded.A lot of people "support the troops" and not the war.What most people mean is that they don't really want the war,but if it's happening then you might as well support your men(or women).

Back to topic.


Not all churches are the same.They of course all have different views(as that goes with religions).There some churches that do use,well a lot,the carrot and stick game.Some churches are rather lax,and then there are the hate groups,which i consider West Boro Baptist church one.They overly use the word hell and do express how they think their dog- I mean god hates homosexuals(or anyone who isn't hetro for that matter)hates them.

It's just my view,but they're a hate group.If they were truly doing the work of their god they would be doing positive(which I'm sure someone will say they make think that is positive,I'm sure they know better things they could be doing).They could be volunteering at a homeless shelter or convertingshutters more people over.Any ways,there are much better things they could be doing if they truly want be serving their god.Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible "He who hasn't sinned cast the first stone"or something?And we are all born with original sin?Nuf said.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

That doesn't make him retarded.A lot of people "support the troops" and not the war.What most people mean is that they don't really want the war,but if it's happening then you might as well support your men(or women).

Back to topic.


Not all churches are the same.They of course all have different views(as that goes with religions).There some churches that do use,well a lot,the carrot and stick game.Some churches are rather lax,and then there are the hate groups,which i consider West Boro Baptist church one.They overly use the word hell and do express how they think their dog- I mean god hates homosexuals(or anyone who isn't hetro for that matter)hates them.

It's just my view,but they're a hate group.If they were truly doing the work of their god they would be doing positive(which I'm sure someone will say they make think that is positive,I'm sure they know better things they could be doing).They could be volunteering at a homeless shelter or convertingshutters more people over.Any ways,there are much better things they could be doing if they truly want be serving their god.Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible "He who hasn't sinned cast the first stone"or something?And we are all born with original sin?Nuf said.

You misunderstood, my grandfather is a freaking genius :D. I was calling the protesters morons.

[RoseyCadaver]

You misunderstood, my grandfather is a freaking genius :D. I was calling the protesters morons.

Veeeeeery sorry,I misunderstood you :D.Hope you can take my pardon ^_^.

[Amnesiac]

Justin, although I see your point I disagree fully. If you were at your father's funeral and you were paying your final respect to him and you had someone thanking god for him dieing I highly doubt you would be saying it is "only words".

In addition to what's already been said, I could honestly say I wouldn't give a fuck. I'm a very apathetic person. I believe more people need to embrace apathy over anger. If the WBC people aren't literally crashing funerals or physically injuring anybody, why should anybody give a fuck? They're just scum, who spend all their money on traveling to places so they can troll the fuck out of the general population.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Modus Operandi]

Do I think what they do is in incredibly bad taste? Yes.
Do they have the right to do it? Yes.

Like I said in another thread about this, their protests at funerals just irk me, really. I'm not really mad, just irritated that they don't seem to have anything better to do.

[Schizothemia]

In general do I view churches and religious groups as hate groups? Yes and no.

More and more lately there seems to be more extremist movements no matter what church you belong to. These groups are the ones that act in ways the gives a lot of other churches bad names. However, it's unfair to base judgement for an entire group of people belonging to a religion or church based on these extremist movements.

I've met many individuals who belong to churches or religious groups who are upstanding citizens and don't spout hatred filled speech, nor do they push their beliefs onto others. They don't go out of their way to put someone down who doesn't believe in the same invisible man in the sky as them nor do they bash others.

Extremism in any group is bad because it leaves no room for the greys inbetween in life.

Unfortunately, all the media enjoys covering is the extremist movements because that's "good news." It's what gets people riled up and interested, they don't focus on for example the pastor who said he looked forward to the day he could marry same sex couples, or the moderate Muslim groups that are working towards ending the extremist mentality in Islam.

[Sage]

WBC should be stopped. I'm sorry but going to a marine's funeral with signs with "thank god for dead soldiers", In my opinion there are two ways to deal with these people 9mm and .45
Yeah! Let's kill people who offend us!

My grandfather was once asked "Do you support the war?". He replied "No, but I support the men fighting the war." Honestly, some people are just morons.
I agree, some people are morons. "Do you support crime?" "No, but I support the criminals committing it."

The WBC has every right to protest peacefully. Protests aren't supposed to be liked, they're supposed to ruffle feathers.

[HaydenM]

Yes but protests are meant to make something right happen, these WBC "protests" are merely to create hatred and anger. Now I don't know about your constitution etc, but people like this must be stopped.

[Sage]

Yes but protests are meant to make something right happen, these WBC "protests" are merely to create hatred and anger.
"Right" is subjective. They have every right to preach their message no matter how unpopular or small of a minority they may be.

Now I don't know about your constitution etc, but people like this must be stopped.
I don't think you know about any constitution if you're suggesting people with views you strongly detest should be killed.

[HaydenM]

It was said in a figurative way and if you do not realise this then there is something wrong with you.

Now religion has been proven wrong on so many counts, the bible they push has so many holes (e.g. noah must gather 2 of every animal, wait turn the page he must get 7), the bible that they teach today does not teach about all the times god said to cut open young pregnant women and let their unborn fetuses fall to the ground, or to stone your new wife if she is not a virgin.

And as for my detest for the WBC, if your are laying your only son to rest after he died for his country, died to keep people like the WBC free and you have people with signs saying "thank god he's dead" and saying that satan is butt fucking him in hell right now, I think you would get annoyed.






(:yeah:POST 100:yeah:)

[Continuum]

Religions are inherently exclusive and supposed to treat others as heretical, so in my opinion, all Religions are hate groups in one way or another.

[Sage]

It was said in a figurative way and if you do not realise this then there is something wrong with you.
Okay, then I think you're dense. Figuratively.

Now religion has been proven wrong on so many counts, the bible they push has so many holes (e.g. noah must gather 2 of every animal, wait turn the page he must get 7), the bible that they teach today does not teach about all the times god said to cut open young pregnant women and let their unborn fetuses fall to the ground, or to stone your new wife if she is not a virgin.
So?

And as for my detest for the WBC, if your are laying your only son to rest after he died for his country, died to keep people like the WBC free and you have people with signs saying "thank god he's dead" and saying that satan is butt fucking him in hell right now, I think you would get annoyed.
Sure, and you have every right to be annoyed. Should the WBC do what they do? Probably not. Are they protected by the law to do so? Yes. If you don't support freedom of speech for people like the WBC, you don't support freedom of speech at all.
also, soldiers haven't fought for our freedoms since WW2, but that's a completely different topic

Religions are inherently exclusive
That's not true and you know it. Some are that way, some are not.

[HaydenM]

Yes. If you don't support freedom of speech for people like the WBC, you don't support freedom of speech at all.


I believe that freedoms must be earnt and that people who do these kinds of things do not deserve that freedom.

[Sage]

I believe that freedoms must be earnt and that people who do these kinds of things do not deserve that freedom.
I think you've a very backwards notion of "freedom." That doesn't even make sense. What good is freedom if people can't share unpopular viewpoints?

[Schizothemia]

I think you've a very backwards notion of "freedom." That doesn't even make sense. What good is freedom if people can't share unpopular viewpoints?

This. Freedom of Speech wasn't just intended for popular viewpoints. It's in place to protect the unpopular viewpoints from being squelched like they were under the monarch.

WBC is a hate group, they are extremists in the Christian faith. However they have the right to say what they want, and while people might not like it, I'd much rather have to deal with idiocy than with lack of freedom.

As Voltaire once said: "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death for your right to say it."

[Continuum]

That's not true and you know it. Some are that way, some are not.


Scratch that. But I still believe that most religions are, in essence, exclusive to themselves. Unless we're talking about Universalism and Religion-Philosophies like Confucianism, most religions are supposed to be hostile to other beliefs. If Christianity was universal (which is the whole point of the word "Catholic"), and salvation was inclusive to everyone -including people who are against it-, then it wouldn't require us to be part of that religion in the first place. Each of these religions will inevitably mandate itself as the truest belief (*Ahem*, Pervert Vampires and Devil Worship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church#Church_views)) above everyone else, and this mistaken pride will lead to backlashes from others. It won't matter now, though.

Oh, and sorry for straying off-topic.

This. Freedom of Speech wasn't just intended for popular viewpoints. It's in place to protect the unpopular viewpoints from being squelched like they were under the monarch.

WBC is a hate group, they are extremists in the Christian faith. However they have the right to say what they want, and while people might not like it, I'd much rather have to deal with idiocy than with lack of freedom.

As Voltaire once said: "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death for your right to say it."

Even if I hate them from the bottom of my heart, I still agree to this. What people need to watch for is to not let this "Church" commit more than what we can allow; and hopefully not let this group become a full-scale hate group (Like the KKK).

[HaydenM]

I have nothing wrong with them saying their Nutjob, Idiotic, Unbased opinions. What I have a problem is how they are expressing them and where. At a marines funeral is wrong.

I can give my opinion on why i hate church, but i shouldnt do it inside one.

[Sage]

I have nothing wrong with them saying their Nutjob, Idiotic, Unbased opinions. What I have a problem is how they are expressing them and where. At a marines funeral is wrong.

I can give my opinion on why i hate church, but i shouldnt do it inside one.

You're right. You shouldn't, but you can. That is an important aspect of freedom that must be upheld.

[Ben Michael]

Yeah I've been to a funeral that WBC showed up, their a microscopic minority that has a loud voice. Christians don't hate, we don't have anything against gays, Muslims, or any other religion or sexual status. Jesus says that were supposed to treat others as we want to be treated.

[Sage]

Yeah I've been to a funeral that WBC showed up, their a microscopic minority that has a loud voice. Christians don't hate, we don't have anything against gays, Muslims, or any other religion or sexual status. Jesus says that were supposed to treat others as we want to be treated.

What makes your representation any more or less valid than the WBC? They are just as good an example of Christianity as any other church. You don't get to just say "Oh, they don't represent any part of religion" just because you don't like their message.

[huginnmuninn]

Yeah I've been to a funeral that WBC showed up, their a microscopic minority that has a loud voice. Christians don't hate, we don't have anything against gays, Muslims, or any other religion or sexual status. Jesus says that were supposed to treat others as we want to be treated.

besides the fact that in the bible it has parts where it specifically says being gay is wrong where it say people of different religions will burn in hell and the fact that christians have been tormenting others because of their different beliefs since almost the begining of christianity i completely agree.

[Iris]

The WBC's actions are protected under Freedom of Speech. That is undeniable. If you make an exception here and force them to stop, who knows where else our freedom of speech will be infringed upon?

I think it's terrible what they're doing, and if they were actually trying to be "moral" they'd let families mourn in peace. But they do have the right to protest.

[Modus Operandi]

What makes your representation any more or less valid than the WBC? They are just as good an example of Christianity as any other church. You don't get to just say "Oh, they don't represent any part of religion" just because you don't like their message.

This raises a good point. The fact of the matter is that the WBC bases its beliefs off of the Bible, the "word of God" to Christians. As such, it follows that the Bible can be interpreted in such a way that promotes such beliefs. Even if "mainstream" Christians don't subscribe to the same interpretation/viewpoints, the WBC is still basing its beliefs in Christianity. As such, one can't simply write them off as not being part of Christianity. They have found these beliefs in the purported word of God.

Relating more to the main question posed, I wouldn't say that certain religions promote hatred so much as promote intolerance. Very few groups are brave/stupid enough to be outright hateful in this day and age.