School Uniforms: Necessary or not?

[TheMatrix]

So I saw this thread (http://www.theteencentre.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=2633) on TC, and this one (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90772) here, and I thought that was an interesting debate.
Now I'd bump the old one, but that wouldn't be following the rules, now would it?

That aside, let's get to the stuff:

Today's debate topic is.....
Should uniforms be allowed in schools? Why or why not? Sources?

My two cents on the subject:
I think not. It should be the choice of the student what they want to wear. It could help them express themselves, if they wanted to, of course.
Also, uniforms cost quite a lot of money over time(source (http://www.howmuchisit.org/school-uniforms-cost/)), so some families may not be able to pay.

Happy debating!

[Jess]

I see nothing really wrong with school uniforms (never had to wear one though) but personally I would not want to go to a school where you have to wear them. I think it's up to the school to decide whether or not they should use school uniforms.

[Amnesiac]

It depends on the school. If a school is going to force a uniform policy, they should actually have a fucking reason as to why. (I'm talking about public schools, fyi)

School uniforms create a lot of unnecessary distractions and arguably bring down the stamina of the students. They should only be used when necessary, like if people are having fashion wars or forming gangs. My middle school had a uniform, and it was completely unnecessary – it just put a bunch of kids in detention and made a good number of parents angry without accomplishing anything at all.

[TheMatrix]

I see nothing really wrong with school uniforms (never had to wear one though) but personally I would not want to go to a school where you have to wear them. I think it's up to the school to decide whether or not they should use school uniforms.
I had to wear uniforms from Pre-K all the way to 4th grade. It wasn't fun.
People(especially me) still got bullied.

It depends on the school. If a school is going to force a uniform policy, they should actually have a fucking reason as to why. (I'm talking about public schools, fyi)
Mmmmm, quite.

School uniforms create a lot of unnecessary distractions and arguably bring down the stamina of the students. They should only be used when necessary, like if people are having fashion wars or forming gangs. My middle school had a uniform, and it was completely unnecessary – it just put a bunch of kids in detention and made a good number of parents angry without accomplishing anything at all.
Agreed.

[HaydenM]

I go to an Australian high school and like all Australian public high schools uniform is compulsory. I don't mind the uniform but some teachers definitely care more for the uniform than the education.

As for uniforms costing more than casuals, if you have a uniform it can last you years. But with a casual t-shirt it could be out of fashion in a month and you would "need" to get a new one.

The other reason the school says we need uniform is that seings as there is a economic variety at our school if you had some people showing up in rags and others in designer labels it would be exclusive and mean on the poorer families.

[skater94]

I go to an Australian high school and like all Australian public high schools uniform is compulsory. I don't mind the uniform but some teachers definitely care more for the uniform than the education.

As for uniforms costing more than casuals, if you have a uniform it can last you years. But with a casual t-shirt it could be out of fashion in a month and you would "need" to get a new one.

The other reason the school says we need uniform is that seings as there is a economic variety at our school if you had some people showing up in rags and others in designer labels it would be exclusive and mean on the poorer families.

I go to a Canadian private school, and I agree that uniforms last a long time. I've been wearing the same set for 3 years. I've realized that I spend much longer deciding what to wear.

I've heard of stories of student comparing the clothing and getting bullied about it in public schools. Other than that, there aren't many reasons to enforce a dress code in public high schools.

[TheMatrix]

You are all quite right, thanks for the replies.

Now this thread needs is some actual debating, not this everybody-agrees-with-me stuff.
Come on people! DEBATE, not agree! :)

[embers]

Uniforms are fine - I agree with using them - but I don't like the over-enforcement of them and uniform-related rules, which is what happens in my school.

[Hope4u]

I've gone to schools where we needed them..it wasn't soo bad..but glad to be in high school where we can wear what we want to.

[DerBear]

I go to an Australian high school and like all Australian public high schools uniform is compulsory. I don't mind the uniform but some teachers definitely care more for the uniform than the education.

As for uniforms costing more than casuals, if you have a uniform it can last you years. But with a casual t-shirt it could be out of fashion in a month and you would "need" to get a new one.

The other reason the school says we need uniform is that seings as there is a economic variety at our school if you had some people showing up in rags and others in designer labels it would be exclusive and mean on the poorer families.

I would agree and then disgree with this

The school i got to has a dress code and we comply with it and everyones happy

Unifroms do last longer yes , but you forget...Typical public schools are like this as i have been to both private and public when i was at the public school in scotland i found it can be the same case as what u said about economic variety check the lable i.e we had to have black jumpers now Ben sherman jumpers with a lable saying so = high class and a poor person getting the clothes from wal mart its still the same really.

Also why do you say it is mean unless they go about with a neon sign and shouting it out whitch most people dont its hardly a crime now is it...that is a sterotype dont you think

[Lawliet]

I currently go to a school where uniform is required, and have been going to schools like that since 2nd grade. I mean sure during elementary we didn't like it and wanted to where other clothing, but as time went by it didn't really matter any more. You just get used to it. The uniforms at m school aren't that formal anyway, just a school polo with khaki's.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I personally have to wear them everyday at school. I don't mind them much other than the fact that you have to wear a belt and tuck in your shirt. Both can be uncomfortable at times and I don't see why you should have to do both. Another reason I don't like uniforms is that when you talk to a girl and you want to compliment her you can't say "Hey nice shirt" because it's a freaking uniform that everybody has to wear! Plus doesn't the right to free speech state that you also have the right to wear whatever you want?

[trooneh]

I personally have to wear them everyday at school. I don't mind them much other than the fact that you have to wear a belt and tuck in your shirt. Both can be uncomfortable at times and I don't see why you should have to do both. Another reason I don't like uniforms is that when you talk to a girl and you want to compliment her you can't say "Hey nice shirt" because it's a freaking uniform that everybody has to wear! Plus doesn't the right to free speech state that you also have the right to wear whatever you want?

That assumes that a student in school has access to all their constitutional rights, which they don't. For example, you don't have the right to privacy (your possessions may be searched at any time).

I don't really approve of uniforms, though a dress code is definitely appropriate in order to prevent distracting clothing (e.g. a bikini or a guy in a speedo) from disrupting learning.

[Angel Androgynous]

I went to a middle school with uniforms and HATED it. There were no cliques, sure a few fights, but they weren't over CLOTHES. I was never bullied, never saw someone get bullied, and uniforms did nothing but piss us off. However, the school made the uniforms because our school used to be REAAAALLLY ghetto with gangs and stuff...

But if they are gonna have uniforms, then they should either
A. Bring the black pants back because making poor sixth grade girls wear khaki pants is just cruel...If you know what I mean
or
B.Ditch the whole uniform rule.

I would add on more about the constitution and freedom of expression
but on a school campus our freedoms are taken away in exchange for education
However we are required to go to school....(: Whatever, I am out of Middle school and I am going into a high school with no uniforms. ^_^

[PerpetualImperfexion]

That assumes that a student in school has access to all their constitutional rights, which they don't. For example, you don't have the right to privacy (your possessions may be searched at any time).

I don't really approve of uniforms, though a dress code is definitely appropriate in order to prevent distracting clothing (e.g. a bikini or a guy in a speedo) from disrupting learning.

Correction, your locker, desk, etc can be searched at anytime. Your book bag, lunchbox, gym back, etc cannot. Don't you think its hypocritical to teach students about the constitution and then deny them their most important freedom?

I went to a middle school with uniforms and HATED it. There were no cliques, sure a few fights, but they weren't over CLOTHES. I was never bullied, never saw someone get bullied, and uniforms did nothing but piss us off. However, the school made the uniforms because our school used to be REAAAALLLY ghetto with gangs and stuff...

But if they are gonna have uniforms, then they should either
A. Bring the black pants back because making poor sixth grade girls wear khaki pants is just cruel...If you know what I mean
or
B.Ditch the whole uniform rule.

I would add on more about the constitution and freedom of expression
but on a school campus our freedoms are taken away in exchange for education
However we are required to go to school....(: Whatever, I am out of Middle school and I am going into a high school with no uniforms. ^_^

Your lucky, I still have to where uniforms in high school.

[Bath]

My paraphrased opinion on this is, no, uniforms should not be allowed. But they're not going completely away anytime soon, schools are still going to have them, and students should just suck it up honestly. It's not the end of the world.

[Sogeking]

School uniforms create a lot of unnecessary distractions and arguably bring down the stamina of the students. They should only be used when necessary, like if people are having fashion wars or forming gangs. My middle school had a uniform, and it was completely unnecessary – it just put a bunch of kids in detention and made a good number of parents angry without accomplishing anything at all.

Better safe than sorry, I would prefer the rules be implimented and the risks taken care in the very beginning as opposed to "OMG these people are doing all sort of things because we don't have a dress code policy, we should have put one up!!" When the damage has already done.

[suicidenote.]

I don't think uniforms should be necessary. It disables kids from expressing themselves through their clothing. In middle school, I had to wear uniforms. They are obviously for the reason that kids don't focus on just what people are wearing and make fun of them. But, no matter if there are uniforms or not, kids still get picked on for the brands of clothes they wear, I noticed. So there is no freakin point in it.
I'm in high school now, and we don't have to wear uniforms. But people still get picked on and judged for not wearing the "popular" brands of clothes.

[Amnesiac]

Better safe than sorry, I would prefer the rules be implimented and the risks taken care in the very beginning as opposed to "OMG these people are doing all sort of things because we don't have a dress code policy, we should have put one up!!" When the damage has already done.

There's no point in regulating something, especially a widespread commodity like clothing, if there's no sign of it being a problem in the first place. Student conflicts caused by clothing happen in such a small number of schools that it should be assumed from the beginning free dress wouldn't cause problems. A dress code should be introduced only after it does.

Dress codes just add another layer of stress to the clusterfuck that is public schooling. They put an unbelievable number of kids in detention over absolutely nothing, give teachers and staff more authority over the lives of students (which always turns them on, because most of them have authority complexes) and add to parental expenses on school. If there's no sign of any problems with free dress, then there's no point in having a dress code. It's just a waste of everybody's time.

[DerBear]

Hello why do we mainly look at public schools

private schools have it 10 times worse than people in a public school

Just Saying

[TheMatrix]

Hello why do we mainly look at public schools

private schools have it 10 times worse than people in a public school

Just Saying
*finally senses some fun in thread*
Oh? Please explain more! The troll is hungry!:yummy:

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Hello why do we mainly look at public schools

private schools have it 10 times worse than people in a public school

Just Saying

Wait I didn't even know they were allowed to have dress codes in public schools WTF is this nonsense. In private schools I understand why they can force you to wear uniforms (You pay to go there). Where as public schools are payed for by tax money. You should definitely be allowed your right to wear what ever you want in a public place (right to free speech). This is unconstitutional bull shit.

[Amnesiac]

Hello why do we mainly look at public schools

private schools have it 10 times worse than people in a public school

Just Saying

Private schools are exactly what they are – private – and any laws regulating their rights to conduct business as they desire would be wrong. Going to a private school with a uniform is a choice, while going to a public school with a uniform isn't. That's why the two are treated so differently. If you don't like wearing uniforms at a private school, you could just stop going there. The same doesn't go for public schools, especially in America.

[davisbr2]

not.

[skater94]

Hello why do we mainly look at public schools

private schools have it 10 times worse than people in a public school

Just Saying

You need to explain yourself. I go to a private school and dress is definitely not an issue. It's one's personal choice to enroll. If one has a problem with uniforms, that person can choose to leave.

Also, students who attend private schools are most likely wealthy enough to afford uniforms, because they can afford tuition. Of course, my parents still complain how school uniform is of bad quality, overpriced etc. On the other hand, having a dress code in public schools is difficult. It's called a public school for a reason.

[DerBear]

Private schools are exactly what they are – private – and any laws regulating their rights to conduct business as they desire would be wrong. Going to a private school with a uniform is a choice, while going to a public school with a uniform isn't. That's why the two are treated so differently. If you don't like wearing uniforms at a private school, you could just stop going there. The same doesn't go for public schools, especially in America.

Well i got to a private school and have been in public school before so i know both...Saying you have a choice is stupid yes you can choose to go their or not but its your parents choice to send you where ever they want for your education.

As for public schools i dont see how the uniform is that bad like one i went to you had to wear black trousers white shirt tie and black jumper or something simillar and that was not bad at all.


How is uniform a problem i mean really its clothing it stops bullying and it shows where you come from. also it identifys you as a school member think if we were all in causals we could enter any school and walk about

Also are you saying someone would acutaly leave good education over aa dress code? why would they do that ?

You need to explain yourself. I go to a private school and dress is definitely not an issue. It's one's personal choice to enroll. If one has a problem with uniforms, that person can choose to leave.

Also, students who attend private schools are most likely wealthy enough to afford uniforms, because they can afford tuition. Of course, my parents still complain how school uniform is of bad quality, overpriced etc. On the other hand, having a dress code in public schools is difficult. It's called a public school for a reason.

FFS we are using the word public as an excuse

majority of schools in the uk have a dress code and its not bad its just basicly black and white for most of them

in the usa some schools do have a dress code some dont and i dont see why you are brinig in money i mean i know for a fact that you can pick up uniform at a reasonable price and you get help and support if u cant afford the uniform.

Uniform is there for a reason security representation anti bullying things like that plus its clothing you have to wear for what 7 hours

[skater94]

majority of schools in the uk have a dress code and its not bad its just basicly black and white for most of them

in the usa some schools do have a dress code some dont and i dont see why you are brinig in money i mean i know for a fact that you can pick up uniform at a reasonable price and you get help and support if u cant afford the uniform.
Uniform is there for a reason security representation anti bullying things like that plus its clothing you have to wear for what 7 hours

I fail to fathom how uniforms are used for security representation and antibullying purposes. Ok, schools can identify intruders easily, but uniforms do not eradicate bullying. There are still a fair amount of bullying at my school, albeit everyone is wearing the same thing.
I actually don't have a problem with it. I think students in schools with dress codes should just suck it up, it's not the end of the world. It's just that there are no public schools with uniforms where I live, and it is very difficult to imagine a dress code being brought in.

[Amnesiac]

Well i got to a private school and have been in public school before so i know both...Saying you have a choice is stupid yes you can choose to go their or not but its your parents choice to send you where ever they want for your education.

Meh. So?

As for public schools i dont see how the uniform is that bad like one i went to you had to wear black trousers white shirt tie and black jumper or something simillar and that was not bad at all.

How is uniform a problem i mean really its clothing it stops bullying and it shows where you come from. also it identifys you as a school member think if we were all in causals we could enter any school and walk about

Because it punishes people for doing absolutely nothing that affects anybody in the school, it increases school costs, it causes stress and is completely unnecessary in a majority of schools. Also, being "identified" as part of a school is a weak argument. Not everybody has "school spirit," which is absolute bullshit (especially since you don't get to choose what public school you attend anyway), and nobody would be able to just walk into a school if they wanted to.

Also are you saying someone would acutaly leave good education over aa dress code? why would they do that ?

I'm sure some people see uniforms as such a bad thing that they'd leave a school over it.

in the usa some schools do have a dress code some dont and i dont see why you are brinig in money i mean i know for a fact that you can pick up uniform at a reasonable price and you get help and support if u cant afford the uniform.

Or, gee, you could not have a uniform at all and avoid all of those problems that come with it.

Uniform is there for a reason security representation anti bullying things like that plus its clothing you have to wear for what 7 hours

Please show me how bullying caused by clothing is a widespread epidemic in modern schools. If it were, I'm sure more American schools would have uniforms – only 12 to 18% of them do (http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=50). It has almost nothing to do with bullying because it's not really a problem at all. In Houston, the only schools that have uniforms are the ones that need it – schools in impoverished areas or with sharp class or racial divisions. The other schools don't have uniforms at all, because they know it's just an incredible waste of time.

[Curiousasian]

not necessary

[RoseyCadaver]

I believe there should be maybe a dress code if like Lithium said fashion wars or symbolizing who's gang and if it causes trouble.I had to wear a school uniform for eight years(Which could explain my dislike for them),for a while you just conform and go along with it.It's not that I didn't really mind it,but you couldn't have colored socks,you had to have navy blue shorts,a white polo or collared shirt and you had to wear a belt.Your shoes can't be :boots,sandals,flip flops,high heals(which i can understand little here)and the list goes on.You can't wear any jacket or hoody that wasn't the school's or had the school's logo.No bracelets,jewelry(girls could have two ear rings), and no "fancy" belts.Oh and girls had to wear the same shirt guys did and plaid skirts.If you didn't wear or follow in the uniform you got conduct marks and sometimes had to be sent to Principal.

I have no problem with a dress code,and uniform if it's necessary like said above,but this school didn't have too many people think of clothes gang symbols and shit(but it was in the middle of the ghetto coincidentally.

I also think a person be it child or teenager should be able to express their self.


Uniform should only be enforced when needed,if there is no need,I think the person should be able to dress the way they want or have a loose dress code.

[DerBear]

Meh. So?



Because it punishes people for doing absolutely nothing that affects anybody in the school, it increases school costs, it causes stress and is completely unnecessary in a majority of schools. Also, being "identified" as part of a school is a weak argument. Not everybody has "school spirit," which is absolute bullshit (especially since you don't get to choose what public school you attend anyway), and nobody would be able to just walk into a school if they wanted to.



I'm sure some people see uniforms as such a bad thing that they'd leave a school over it.



Or, gee, you could not have a uniform at all and avoid all of those problems that come with it.



Please show me how bullying caused by clothing is a widespread epidemic in modern schools. If it were, I'm sure more American schools would have uniforms – only 12 to 18% of them do (http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=50). It has almost nothing to do with bullying because it's not really a problem at all. In Houston, the only schools that have uniforms are the ones that need it – schools in impoverished areas or with sharp class or racial divisions. The other schools don't have uniforms at all, because they know it's just an incredible waste of time.

Ok so first i want to ask you how in anyones good and stable mind does it punish someone all this freedom shit is just bull huh what happens when you are older and have to work...80% of jobs in this world require some form of uniform or dress code does it not? So this prepares them i mean honestly.

I think no one would leave the school over uniform especialy if it is public as it tends to cost less and think 9 times out of 10 you are not required to buy uniform from the school uniform shops...as i said prepares you for life ahead

And tell me how many problems are caused that would effect the main thing learning cause thats what you go to school for

Also your being silly school spirit or not it is meant for representation
bullying is avioded by not causing fashion wars like someone could come in wearing old horid clothes and someone could come in wearing the lastest trend and that person could bully the other person

overall i think we are taking this freedom of speech shit way to far

[Amnesiac]

Ok so first i want to ask you how in anyones good and stable mind does it punish someone all this freedom shit is just bull huh what happens when you are older and have to work...80% of jobs in this world require some form of uniform or dress code does it not? So this prepares them i mean honestly.

It all comes down to choices. You don't have a choice in going to school. You do have a choice to work somewhere that has uniforms. I don't care about the practicality of the choice, the main point is that it's there.

I think no one would leave the school over uniform especialy if it is public as it tends to cost less and think 9 times out of 10 you are not required to buy uniform from the school uniform shops...as i said prepares you for life ahead

It depends on the school, and the country. That's not how it works over here, in the U.S.

And tell me how many problems are caused that would effect the main thing learning cause thats what you go to school for

Mostly stress, as well as the completely unnecessary punishments. We don't need kids worrying about whether they're in dress code on the morning of a test. We don't need to have teachers constantly waste class time handing out detentions and other punishments for kids who aren't wearing belts. We don't need the morale of the school bogged down by plain, uncomfortable uniforms that only come in three dark colors. It's a no-win scenario when you have a uniform.

Also your being silly school spirit or not it is meant for representation
bullying is avioded by not causing fashion wars like someone could come in wearing old horid clothes and someone could come in wearing the lastest trend and that person could bully the other person

As I said, show me how bullying over clothing is a problem.

overall i think we are taking this freedom of speech shit way to far

I haven't said anything about "freedom of speech" this entire time.

[Schizothemia]

i think we are taking this freedom of speech shit way to far

A minor tangental digression before getting to the issue. We can NEVER take freedom of speech too far, it's when we start thinking that we take it too far that the right itself is restricted.


As for uniforms, I understand the perspective of schools, however this perspective isn't effective. At my school where we didn't have uniforms, no one made fun of you for wearing a certain brand of clothing, or not wearing a certain brand of clothing. Maybe I was lucky, I don't know.

The other reason so many school are pro- uniform is because it is said to raise test scores, which are super important to schools since in most states, test scores determine how much money the school gets the next year. However there haven't been any conclusive studies that I've found that support this.

I do think dress codes should be enforced, simply because sometimes people have odd ideas of what they think they can wear in public. It would also discourage gang affiliated clothing, and atleast provide some semblence of control for the control freaks known as school administration and staff.

[DoctorWho]

I don't think they are necessary because regular clothes aren't much different and its harder to reconize which one is which lol

[DerBear]

It all comes down to choices. You don't have a choice in going to school. You do have a choice to work somewhere that has uniforms. I don't care about the practicality of the choice, the main point is that it's there.



It depends on the school, and the country. That's not how it works over here, in the U.S.



Mostly stress, as well as the completely unnecessary punishments. We don't need kids worrying about whether they're in dress code on the morning of a test. We don't need to have teachers constantly waste class time handing out detentions and other punishments for kids who aren't wearing belts. We don't need the morale of the school bogged down by plain, uncomfortable uniforms that only come in three dark colors. It's a no-win scenario when you have a uniform.



As I said, show me how bullying over clothing is a problem.



I haven't said anything about "freedom of speech" this entire time.

Ok First of all uniform is ok it causes no problems at all it may not be the most comfterbale thing but well let me tell you there are load of diffrent materials you can choose from so comfort can be improved

also stress really. No if anyone stresses over uniform when they have a test well they need to get there head checked out

also let me say this:
This must be a major USA thing because in europe every school i have been in has not complained and i make a point of joining and eventualy becoming head of the school council and every meeting we have i bring up and ask if we have any issues regarding clothing and only one has come up and that was about skirt lenths as a few of us found that the girls skirts we too short as when some of them sat down you got a view of there underware. so i do really think this is a mostly USA thing here

Also do they not have a good system like registration in all schools i have been in we have had what we call a "register class" where we got given notifications slips letter and we got a quick scan i.e the teacher looks around at the 12 of us while we are sitting and says we are ok.. Maybe we could apply this

Also to say again bullying can be related to clothing because a girl could be waring say the lattest trends and clothes and another girl could be wearing old clothes form say last year...Girl with new clothes make comments and makes fun of other girl now if we all look the same we cant complain now can we.
also when someone does bully you over clothes it does not feel nice

Also can i say why do you keep going on about choice. Wearing uniform prepares you for life and if u turn down a job that pays well because you have to wear a navi blue suit or a shirt or whatever then to be honest said person must be plain stupid

Also on a side note someone mentioned gangs and indecent clothing unifroms stop this

[Genghis Khan]

Ok First of all uniform is ok it causes no problems at all it may not be the most comfterbale thing but well let me tell you there are load of diffrent materials you can choose from so comfort can be improved

Comfort isn't the biggest of deals in this case, it's more to do with teachers getting butthurt over something which frankly isn't that important. I'm not completely against the idea of a dress code or uniforms but, generally what happens is time is wasted on little things like someone's tie being undone therefore they must receive punishment for not obeying the dress code [this is my school in a nutshell].

also let me say this:
This must be a major USA thing because in europe every school i have been in has not complained and i make a point of joining and eventualy becoming head of the school council and every meeting we have i bring up and ask if we have any issues regarding clothing and only one has come up and that was about skirt lenths as a few of us found that the girls skirts we too short as when some of them sat down you got a view of there underware. so i do really think this is a mostly USA thing here

Not really, short skirts are a problem here in England too.

Also to say again bullying can be related to clothing because a girl could be waring say the lattest trends and clothes and another girl could be wearing old clothes form say last year...Girl with new clothes make comments and makes fun of other girl now if we all look the same we cant complain now can we.


But that kind of bullying can even happen outside of school when one girl is with her friends and isn't wearing something in fashion and her friends start bitching about her.

also when someone does bully you over clothes it does not feel nice

Neither does racial, homophobic or any other form of bullying... this isn't a very strong point.

Also can i say why do you keep going on about choice. Wearing uniform prepares you for life and if u turn down a job that pays well because you have to wear a navi blue suit or a shirt or whatever then to be honest said person must be plain stupid

Going to a school that doesn't wear uniform doesn't mean you'll turn down a good job later on in life just because it requires a dress code... you're right, that is plain stupid.

Also on a side note someone mentioned gangs and indecent clothing unifroms stop this

No, it doesn't. A gang can make itself known by the members possessing a common factor which can pretty much be in the form of anything. Our school's strict with uniforms but earrings and piercings are allowed, a gang could easily be made through members wearing a common type of earring... or a similar hairstyle. If a school is going to stop this phenomenon it can recognize the gang by its particular feature and ban that style, a conversion to a uniform system is completely unnecessary.

[Schizothemia]

Also do they not have a good system like registration in all schools i have been in we have had what we call a "register class" where we got given notifications slips letter and we got a quick scan i.e the teacher looks around at the 12 of us while we are sitting and says we are ok.. Maybe we could apply this

Also to say again bullying can be related to clothing because a girl could be waring say the lattest trends and clothes and another girl could be wearing old clothes form say last year...Girl with new clothes make comments and makes fun of other girl now if we all look the same we cant complain now can we.
also when someone does bully you over clothes it does not feel nice

Also can i say why do you keep going on about choice. Wearing uniform prepares you for life and if u turn down a job that pays well because you have to wear a navi blue suit or a shirt or whatever then to be honest said person must be plain stupid

Also on a side note someone mentioned gangs and indecent clothing unifroms stop this
Schools that require uniform inform the parents before registering their child of the requirement. The issues with uniforms is not that they are unknown, or uncertain, but that they don't improve the conditions they are claimed to.

We understand the issue of bullying because of clothing brands, but it only affect 12-18% of schools, that isn't a large enough margin to impose uniforms in most places, and schools effected could look into dress code, or developmental classes that ask the students who are bullying to examine their behavior, or classes that try to fix the bullying problem instead of punishing it by imposing a school wide rule that doesn't fix much of anything.

Also, I'm sorry, but a uniform in school doesn't really prepare you for anything. Just because one wears uniform in school and a uniform in work, doesn't mean one prepares you for the other. And I highly doubt one will refuse to wear a uniform in a professional setting as opposed to High School (Or Secondary School) where you are still a kid.

I personally feel like uniforms stifle a lot of creativity and expression that can occur when a uniform policy isn't imposed on students.

[DerBear]

I am going end my part in this debate...as we are both going to just go back and fourth and we are not going to get anywhere so i shall say this

Uniform is in nearly every where we go. its life its something we have to deal with and fucking complaining about it on a thread will get us no where its not going to change the schools mind its not going to change anyones its life and like life its not perfect uniforms dont hurt anyone at the end of the day its there for us to look sharp...so lets just live with it as we cant change it why dont if you dislike it so much start a potion on something like facebook and say support walking into school without uniform and make a stand if you guys dislike it so much

[SimplyTom]

simple answer no

[Genghis Khan]

Uniform is in nearly every where we go. its life its something we have to deal with and fucking complaining about it on a thread will get us no where its not going to change the schools mind its not going to change anyones its life and like life its not perfect uniforms dont hurt anyone at the end of the day its there for us to look sharp...so lets just live with it as we cant change it

You're right, let's not worry about things we cannot change through a website, why bother debating about it if it isn't going to change anything, let's just accept that it doesn't do much harm and it isn't worth our time to talk about it. Forgive any of us for being so unfathomably stupid as to participate in something that just isn't worth our time and attention.

why dont if you dislike it so much start a potion on something like facebook and say support walking into school without uniform and make a stand if you guys dislike it so much

1. Because it's a fucking facebook petition, name one case where a facebook petition has actually changed something.

2. We're here to debate and express why or why we're not in favour of school uniforms, not give up and say 'Oh if you feel so strongly about it, why don't you go out and protest?', that's got fuck all to do with this debate.

[MilitemDilectam]

From experience with friends, it's not a big deal..they get ready a lot faster..in terms of expressing yourself..well you don't always have to wear clothes to do so..you can just tell people who ask about you..

For those that have problems with them..I don't disagree..but if you go to school just to look good..well, then you should be in fashion school...not the school where you learn math, science etc.

[DerBear]

You're right, let's not worry about things we cannot change through a website, why bother debating about it if it isn't going to change anything, let's just accept that it doesn't do much harm and it isn't worth our time to talk about it. Forgive any of us for being so unfathomably stupid as to participate in something that just isn't worth our time and attention.



1. Because it's a fucking facebook petition, name one case where a facebook petition has actually changed something.

2. We're here to debate and express why or why we're not in favour of school uniforms, not give up and say 'Oh if you feel so strongly about it, why don't you go out and protest?', that's got fuck all to do with this debate.

well as i said why bother its not like we can change it


and we did orginise a walk out on facebook for the people at the school and they lisened to us and we got what we thought was right

and i meant local i.e per school not get everyone in i.e the usa to walk out

[anonymous.john]

Uniforms aren't that bad. I have to wear one every day for school and it's not a big deal. Khakis and a button down. It's not that bad and I laugh every time I see someone post something like "I've never had to wear a uniform for school and I would abhor it if I had to! It's my right of expression!" *chuckle* You don't practically for all intents and purposes have rights until you're 18.

[Perseus]

I find uniforms ridiculous. When I was in fifth grade, the school district that I lived in at that time implemented uniforms. Now, I would just like to say this. It's the fucking south. We had to wear khaki pants and dark ass collared shirts. I mean, goddamn, was that annoying. No shorts option for the hot ass fall and early summer (May). I prefer having the ability to wear what I please. When I go in the working world, surprise, surprise, I'll have the leisure to wear what I want as long as it's professional. No stupid ass uniform. What a weak argument.

[Death]

Hello why do we mainly look at public schools

private schools have it 10 times worse than people in a public school

Just Saying

Implying that "worse" is really the most accurately-descriptive term.

[DerBear]

Has any of you guys thought why schools have uniform i mean really they have made the policy....for a reason and the reason must of been good enough to pass through the board of education and higher in school athorites so it must not be that bad.

[Unlucky_Leprechaun]

I think that in certain geographic area YES. The wearing of offensive/gang related attire in school is a problem. Thankfully, we really don't have that issue with our school, but many schools in the area (particularly city school system) that do, have instituted uniforms and gang activity (at least on school property) has gone down. Our county school board has been debating the issue for the past few years and cannot come to a resolution so it is up to the individual school to implement their own dress code.
As for the extra cost, the uniforms (at least here) are state subsidized so the extra cost (based on income) is reduced.
From looking at the pictures and seeing them in stores, they really aren't that bad -- blue and khaki combo sets (short and long sleeves-- pants/shorts and skirts) mix n match basically.
If they cut down on violence, then yes I say they are a good thing.

[Perseus]

Has any of you guys thought why schools have uniform i mean really they have made the policy....for a reason and the reason must of been good enough to pass through the board of education and higher in school athorites so it must not be that bad.

The board of education instituted cheating on standardized tests in the area where I live.. They obviously think (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/28576854/detail.html) things (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7649023.html) through and do everything that is in the best interest of the student.

[Modus Operandi]

Uniforms for the sake of cutting down on gang violence: fine
Uniforms for the sake of having uniforms: bullshit.

That second statement is simplified somewhat, but I think you all get my point. The argument that uniforms break down socio-economic barriers and helping stop bullying is really a rather weak one. Kids will ALWAYS find ways to put other kids down and differentiate themselves from those they consider inferior. If they all wear clothes that look the same, they'll start making fun of certain brands.

[TheMatrix]

If they all wear clothes that look the same, they'll start making fun of certain brands.
They already do, it seems. :(

[RoseyCadaver]

If they all wear clothes that look the same, they'll start making fun of certain brands.

You must be a carpenter,because you hit the nail on the head.People in my school,which had a STRICT uniform policy,if you didn't have one of the name brand uniform makers or you're uniform wasn't the nicest then usually people weren't the nicest to you.People never really messed with me about uniform because they knew I could care less.

It seemed to be that polo was one of the "in" clothes.We also had these days where we didn't have to wear uniforms(but you had to give like two dollars,it was like a fund raiser or some shit)and I'm not saying most schools are like this because I doubt most are,but unless you were wearing whats in style or name brand,you're clothes weren't worth shit.

You also apparently had to buy your clothes newly made,from overly priced stores,and can't be a handy me down(we bought a lot of our shit from second hand stores and The Goodwill lol).

[DerBear]

You must be a carpenter,because you hit the nail on the head.People in my school,which had a STRICT uniform policy,if you didn't have one of the name brand uniform makers or you're uniform wasn't the nicest then usually people weren't the nicest to you.People never really messed with me about uniform because they knew I could care less.

It seemed to be that polo was one of the "in" clothes.We also had these days where we didn't have to wear uniforms(but you had to give like two dollars,it was like a fund raiser or some shit)and I'm not saying most schools are like this because I doubt most are,but unless you were wearing whats in style or name brand,you're clothes weren't worth shit.

You also apparently had to buy your clothes newly made,from overly priced stores,and can't be a handy me down(we bought a lot of our shit from second hand stores and The Goodwill lol).

I will agree with you on all these points you have made here.

[Perseus]

I will agree with you on all these points you have made here.

That's cool, I guess. Just ignore my point.

[DerBear]

That's cool, I guess. Just ignore my point.

Sorry i did not honestly know what to make of it

[Perseus]

Sorry i did not honestly know what to make of it

What's not to make? You said the higher ups in a board of education do something if it's good, whereas mine did something that is not "good", ultimately defeating your point that that if it's done, there has to be a reason for it and shouldn't be double checked or anything.

[DerBear]

What's not to make? You said the higher ups in a board of education do something if it's good, whereas mine did something that is not "good", ultimately defeating your point that that if it's done, there has to be a reason for it and shouldn't be double checked or anything.

Well maybe not in this case but it is of the schools authority to decide uniform or not... some people vote for uniform in this case i know the parents at my school backed uniform a 100% and i think at the school annual poll count (this is for my school only) 85% backed uniform

alo i am from the UK where uniform is in over 80% of the school not many people have an issue with it over in the uk especialy where i live

[Schizothemia]

Has any of you guys thought why schools have uniform i mean really they have made the policy....for a reason and the reason must of been good enough to pass through the board of education and higher in school athorites so it must not be that bad.

Sorry, this sort of struck a chord with me. Just because someone in the "hgher ups" have a reason means we should stick by them 100%? Sorry that mentality is illogical. It's sort of like if the President said: "Jumping off of a cliff gives you superpowers! Lets all go jump off of cliffs like lemmings!" I know it's a bit of an oversimplification, but I think you get my point.

Just because parents or school administrators think they know best doesn't always make it the case. The big problem with education is a lot of individuals care more about their jobs and keeping them than about the actual education of the students. Education in California and a lot of other places in the US is more of a beauracracy now than ever before, and more people are concerned about their job wellfare, than actually doing their job. (This same issue is currently happening in our government as well, but that's a different issue.)

[Tango]

I don't think uniforms are bad all the time, I don't think I could go to a school with them though. Sometimes I feel like going to school in a sweatshirt and sweats, I don't want to be told I have to wear a skirt every single day.

My old school had really stupid dress codes such as no open toed shoes, no holes in your jeans, etc. And then enforced it. I had a hole in my jeans on my knee the size of a quarter and they made me change into p.e. shorts. My school has similar stupid rules but they don't enforce them. But most of them have reasons, even if they are stupid.

[DerBear]

Sorry, this sort of struck a chord with me. Just because someone in the "hgher ups" have a reason means we should stick by them 100%? Sorry that mentality is illogical. It's sort of like if the President said: "Jumping off of a cliff gives you superpowers! Lets all go jump off of cliffs like lemmings!" I know it's a bit of an oversimplification, but I think you get my point.

Just because parents or school administrators think they know best doesn't always make it the case. The big problem with education is a lot of individuals care more about their jobs and keeping them than about the actual education of the students. Education in California and a lot of other places in the US is more of a beauracracy now than ever before, and more people are concerned about their job wellfare, than actually doing their job. (This same issue is currently happening in our government as well, but that's a different issue.)

I know what your saying but my main point is that if uniform was so bad and really a major problem then parents or higher ups woulds of objected and some have and some win (case study public school in france) so yes i do agree with you just becuase higher ups are not 100% right but if it was so bad they would of done something

p.s uniform since the 20th century has been getting looser and losser most schools now adays its shirt tie and trousers

[Schizothemia]

I know what your saying but my main point is that if uniform was so bad and really a major problem then parents or higher ups woulds of objected and some have and some win (case study public school in france) so yes i do agree with you just becuase higher ups are not 100% right but if it was so bad they would of done something

p.s uniform since the 20th century has been getting looser and losser most schools now adays its shirt tie and trousers

But that's the thing. The argument here isn't whether or not they are bad, it's whether or not they should be compulsory. Just because something isn't bad, doesn't mean it needs to be mandated. You still have to look at what overall affects it has and ask are the beneficial enough.

We are both aware of what each others argument is: you feel that because they aren't that bad, it's no big deal to wear them. I feel that they provide no positive benefit that is substantial enough to make the compulsory.

The point that I'm trying to make is that, while they aren't bad, uniforms add nothing to the equation that make them worth being worn. Any added benefits recieved by a uniform policy are negligible because of the fact that either children will find new ways to make fun of each other or the fact that there is no conclusive evidence that uniforms have a strong enough impact on test scores.

[Nao.N]

I read that many schools try and save money by making the uniforms manditory.
I do not believe they should be forced upon if it is for no reason. Only for the reason of saving money.

[Ben Michael]

I personally think that it makes a teachers and principals job easier by not have to enforce a dress code when you have a uniform, I've been to schools that made us wear them, I really don't mind them