Abuse or Discipline BIG Difference

[DerBear]

I have seen a lot of threads not just in here but in many other sections about "so called abuse by parents"

now as we all know hitting a child is legal in most countries and states (obviosuly not without reason)

so tell me if a parents hits a child because they do something wrong...why do people then precede to shout abuse but its not...unless they are just doing it for no reason at all (i.e just walking up to you and hit you now thats abuse)

so my thoughts are that as long as they have a good reason and if the child mis behaves badly then parents should be able to give there child a slap (not punching the living shit out of them)

as i have never been hit by my parents as i have not given them any reason to do so....so therefor i have never been hit

so all i ask is why people say "my parents hit me" and then they go on to explain that they did do something wrong

i dont find brutal abuse acceptable but i do fine the ocasional hit on a child ok as if they do have a reason

so what is your opinon on this topic ???

[DayandNight]

There is a difference between a simple quick spanking and repeated, brutal, constant abuse. It is unacceptable. You try being severely beat and hit nearly every damn day by an alcoholic father who is using the metal end of a belt buckle and beating you so severe that you've had teeth knocked out and been in hospital over it. You try going to counseling because your father beat you and your little brother and yor mom so severe that it has scarred you to this day.

Oh that's right you said you've never been beaten. Well guess what I have. And you obviously have no idea. No one is looking for sympathy. It's about getting the abuser to stop. Sounds to me like you seem to support and condone abuse judging by your wording in your post. Well like you said, you've never been hit or beat. I have, and by a monster who is my blood father. Or he was, as far as I'm concerned, he's dead to me. So until you or anyone else has you have no right to give opinions like that.

[DerBear]

i am not condoning child abuse you fool i am condoing the fact the to give a child the ocasional slap or spank if they miss behave

what you had done to you was abuse straight out and simple if you had read what i said you would see that i was saying about the fact that it should be ok to give your child the ocasional hit not what has been done to you

[Toxic.]

i am not condoning child abuse you fool i am condoing the fact the to give a child the ocasional slap or spank if they miss behave

what you had done to you was abuse straight out and simple if you had read what i said you would see that i was saying about the fact that it should be ok to give your child the ocasional hit not what has been done to you

No.
You should never be allowed to simply hit or slap your child.
Especially in their younger years.
I condone spanking on the fatty parts of their bottoms.
Anything beyond that is pushing it...

[DayandNight]

i am not condoning child abuse you fool i am condoing the fact the to give a child the ocasional slap or spank if they miss behave

what you had done to you was abuse straight out and simple if you had read what i said you would see that i was saying about the fact that it should be ok to give your child the ocasional hit not what has been done to you

Hitting a child is NEVER ok, regardless of the circumstances.

[Bougainvillea]

Hitting a child is NEVER ok, regardless of the circumstances.

Not true. At a young age, when you do something wrong, its okay. A small spanking on the behind, or even just a slap on their hand. Because at that age, that's how they respond. You can't really explain to a four year old why what they did, or said was wrong.

But once the child gets older, its only reasonable for that type of punishment to stop.

[DerBear]

No.
You should never be allowed to simply hit or slap your child.
Especially in their younger years.
I condone spanking on the fatty parts of their bottoms.
Anything beyond that is pushing it...

i agree they never should be simply allowed to hit a child but it is ok to give them a hit lightly if they do something wrong especialy in the younger years as like the OP said its hard to explain to e.g a 4 year old what they have done wrong

[Kaius]

I'm moving this, regardless of why it was created this could potentially cause a lot of hurt to people that may have been abused in the past, this sort of thread should not be placed in the psych ward.

Abuse :arrow2: ROTW

[Unlucky_Leprechaun]

I think some discipline shoul be acceptable but the problem is that SOME parents do not know when to stop...that is when it becomes abuse. Where does that line get crossed?

It is a fine line and having a stranger get involved ( like in public) is wrong and for the most part people should be left to discipline their own child(ren)

Light discipline should be acceptable for younger children so they understand the meaning of right versus wrong

[Sugaree]

Not true. At a young age, when you do something wrong, its okay. A small spanking on the behind, or even just a slap on their hand. Because at that age, that's how they respond. You can't really explain to a four year old why what they did, or said was wrong.

But once the child gets older, its only reasonable for that type of punishment to stop.

I agree with Lawrence. Children who are young, most likely around the ages of 2-5 at the latest, this is the only way to gain their attention. They're too young to understand why it was wrong to say or do something. This doesn't mean that spanking or slapping a child's hand is abuse. If the punishment doesn't stop once they're older, then it can be classified as abuse.

However, harming a child out of your own freewill is abuse. There's obviously a percentage of abusers who claim that their abuse is merely "discipline". But if your kid lands in the ER with a few knocked out teeth or broken bones, that's abuse. So yes, there is a difference, but the line is very very thin.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I agree with negative reinforcement as much as I agree with positive reinforcement. Parents are there to teach us how to live. As an analogy when we are born as blank CD's. We have no morals, beliefs, etc programmed into us. Our parents are there to impart(program) these values on us. They should be able to this anyway the like whether it be by giving us a piece of candy for good grades or gently slapping us in the back of the head when we aren't behaving. So let me ask you this, should older siblings be aloud to give their younger brothers and sisters a love tap if they are messing with their stuff?

[TheMatrix]

I agree with negative reinforcement as much as I agree with positive reinforcement.
And what would that be?

Parents are there to teach us how to live. As an analogy when we are born as blank CD's. We have no morals, beliefs, etc programmed into us. Our parents are there to impart(program) these values on us.
I am going to quibble: It would have to be a CD-RW, not just a CD.
Or even better: a hard drive!

They should be able to this anyway the like whether it be by giving us a piece of candy for good grades or gently slapping us in the back of the head when we aren't behaving.
Slap how hard?

So let me ask you this, should older siblings be aloud to give their younger brothers and sisters a love tap if they are messing with their stuff?
:offtopic:

[DerBear]

[QUOTE=TheMatrix;

Slap how hard[/QUOTE]
well i feel it should be firm but not too hard and depending on the age aswell a light slap is what most parents feel is better than talking when they are young as a small child aged 5 or 6 does not understand a good talking too

like others have said when you are that young thdey dont respond aswell to talking

[PerpetualImperfexion]

And what would that be?


I am going to quibble: It would have to be a CD-RW, not just a CD.
Or even better: a hard drive!


Slap how hard?


:offtopic:

lol analogy fail

hard enough to make a point but not hard enough to cause a concussion.

How was that off topic. If I created a separate thread odds are a mod would just end up fusing the two threads.

[Genghis Khan]

I agree with negative reinforcement as much as I agree with positive reinforcement. Parents are there to teach us how to live. As an analogy when we are born as blank CD's. We have no morals, beliefs, etc programmed into us. Our parents are there to impart(program) these values on us. They should be able to this anyway the like whether it be by giving us a piece of candy for good grades or gently slapping us in the back of the head when we aren't behaving.

Unless of course the negative reinforcement is carried out during the later stages of adolescence. I highly doubt hitting a 17 year old will make them understand what they did wrong. In that stage, reasoning with them verbally is usually most effective.

So let me ask you this, should older siblings be aloud to give their younger brothers and sisters a love tap if they are messing with their stuff?

I'm not sure what you mean by messing with their stuff but it isn't much solidarity in whether older siblings can take such action against the younger ones, it's usually the parent's decision, but depending on the age, relationship and situation it can arguably be done. I've seen in some cultures siblings know each other better than their parents do, so if the older ones know the little one is fucking up somewhere they use negative reinforcement. I think it's justified.

[TheMatrix]

lol analogy fail
For me or for you?

hard enough to make a point but not hard enough to cause a concussion.
That can range from really lightly to very hard, enough to cause injury.

How was that off topic. If I created a separate thread odds are a mod would just end up fusing the two threads.
Not necessarily...
And if they did, well then, so be it. It's not like they're going to hold it against you personally. As long as you don't do it too often, it'll be fine.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

For me or for you?


That can range from really lightly to very hard, enough to cause injury.


Not necessarily...
And if they did, well then, so be it. It's not like they're going to hold it against you personally. As long as you don't do it too often, it'll be fine.

For me (lets drop it)

Now your just being a smart ass. Enough that it doesn't harm them for an extended period of time but enough to cause them pain so they can in turn realize that what they did is wrong and will lead to punishment if they do it again.

Never the less I thought it was appropriate to add to my response. Ignore it or give an intelligent response, whatever fits your backseat mod/trolling agenda.

[RoseyCadaver]

I think there is nothing wrong with a little spanking or a slap on the hand if a young child keeps acting up and throwing a tantrum.I myself was quite the child :rolleyes:,my father gave me a good spanking or two in my life.


He(she mother :P) stopped about when I was five.They never hit me to the extent that I would call abuse.I'd be pretty pissed and upset,but hey,I was being a brat.So no,I don't think appropriate spanking or hand slaps at a young age should be considered abuse.Abuse and discipline are two TOTALLY different things.So people have different views, it's natural for people to have two different views on discipline .All though,Harming a child at free will like Murdoc said is abuse.

[Charlotte93]

Hitting a child is NEVER ok, regardless of the circumstances.

what do you mean by hitting, cause i used to get spankings when i did somthing wrong but my parents are in no way abusiv, basides spanking is a way of disaplin and it's very efectiv but there is a very big diffrance between beeting and simple discpline.

[TheMatrix]

what do you mean by hitting, cause i used to get spankings when i did somthing wrong but my parents are in no way abusiv, basides spanking is a way of disaplin and it's very efectiv but there is a very big diffrance between beeting and simple discpline.
And boom went my spelling checker.
Hint Hint!

[Charlotte93]

lol i suck at spelling always have always will

[DerBear]

And boom went my spelling checker.
Hint Hint!

really FFS this is just stupid some errors were made in someones post no need to pick up on it

lol i suck at spelling always have always will

I could read what you said just fine

[embers]

And boom went my spelling checker.
Hint Hint!

Pull your head out of your ass.

[DayandNight]

what do you mean by hitting, cause i used to get spankings when i did somthing wrong but my parents are in no way abusiv, basides spanking is a way of disaplin and it's very efectiv but there is a very big diffrance between beeting and simple discpline.

Read this post of mine and you'll know what I mean by hitting. You'll see why I am against hitting or spanking of ANY kind:
http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108340

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Read this post of mine and you'll know what I mean by hitting. You'll see why I am against hitting or spanking of ANY kind:
http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108340

Look i'm sorry about what happened between you and your dad. Unfortunately he had to have had some kind of mental problem, most likely anger management. This is not the case with most parents. When a parent decides to discipline there child with negative reinforcement most realize that they can't take it too far and should only do it when needed. Once again I'm sorry what happened between you and your dad and I hope everything works out alright.

[Schizothemia]

As someone who also had an abusive father, I understand your plight, however, I do condone spanking/ slapping the hand for children who are younger. It's simply a psychology thing. When a child is young, maybe up to age 10 at the latest, spanking is the most efficient way to reinforce an idea about a behavior the parent might find wrong.

I've found time-outs not nearly as effective, especially when you have an over active imagination (like I did when I was young, time- outs were actually fun for me, I created characters and had shows in my head.)

I think after the age of 10, odds are you can reason with the kid by putting things in their terms, or use grounding, or the taking away of privelages. The reason why I don't think that's effective when a kid is younger is because at that age, they don't think they did anything wrong and its pretty difficult to comprehend they did do something wrong. I mean I remember my parents trying to take away privelages from me when I was a young kid, but I didn't understand and my behavior didn't change. With spanking it did.

Is there a fine line between spanking and abuse? Of course there is, however what is clear is that repeated beatings occuring because the parent simply wants to, is abuse. However, until we can come up with a more effective universal definition there will be some gray area. I mean how do you determine a quantitive amount that signifies when repeated spankings (which may have valid reasons) becomes abuse?

[DerBear]

Surely the odd spank when a child is under the age of 9 helps at there understanding is slightly not as mature as a 10+ year old

[TheSleepingInsomniac]

I'm completely against corporal punishment, but i'm not for illegalizing it because to me some parents utilize a smack on the hand or bottom as a last resort. without harming the child. However when you have a small child add the frustration of misbehavior plus a parent who is much larger and stronger than the child, mistakes can be made. To me the line between discipline and abuse is too thin and easy to cross.

This may be a bad example but a good way in my opinion to teach values to small children is to, within reason let them experiences the consequences of their actions. For example if a child will never share their toys with the other kids then the other kids wont like that child and the child will see that to make friends s/he will have to share.

As for my experience i was mostly taught discipline with the method above, i can recall being smacked on one or two occasions when i was doing something that put me in immanent harm, such as climbing on the stove or running into traffic.

[dontcare97]

Abuse is totally unacceptable, but beatings are sometimes necessary. I was brought up around the premise, do something wrong and you get you ass whooped. Sometimes I thought it was mean but most of the time I knew i deserved it. It made me a better person today. I hate disrespectful, ungrateful kids.

You know the ones screaming their heads off in McDonald's because their mom refuses to get them a Mcflurry. They throw things and hit their mother. Sometimes they even curse. Then when the mom breaks down and buys the treat for the brat just to stop making a scene, he/she doesn't say thank you, eats half of it before throwing it to the floor and then goes back to demand a cookie. Slapping the mess out if them would have shut them up and saved the mom $1.75.

I'm not saying to starve the kids in a closet after you burned it's kin off while you bashed it brains into the brick walls. A bit of discipline is needed.