How can we make sure that women are paid the same as men?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Women often earn less money than men for the same jobs. That is wrong, but how can we fix it? It is illegal to pay people less money, but how can we enforce such a law?

[ShatteredWings]

have applications and resumes be read by someone who isn't allowed to see the name or sex of the person.

[DerBear]

I think it is about genaration a man who is 65 will pay a woman less than a man simpy because he is old fashioned

theirs not much we can do but try and keep our eye open and read the situation carefully

this is a problem

[Lethe]

It's a long-standing tradition I suppose :/. I don't think that women should be paid less for the exact same job, but most likely the issue will never be resolved because people aren't really willing to take the time to make the change.

[Korashk]

Women often earn less money than men for the same jobs. That is wrong
Why is it wrong?

One solution would be to have women be more forceful when negotiating pay during the interview process.

[Iris]

Why is it wrong?
Are you serious??? How'd you like to be paid less than someone else simply because of your gender???

S\Also since we're all the next generation, as long as we're not sexist we'll be making a change just by the way we think (when we employ people..)

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Why is it wrong?

One solution would be to have women be more forceful when negotiating pay during the interview process.

It is wrong because it is an act of discrimination and it denies women their civil rights. People should be paid based on their work performance, not their sex, race, and so on.

[Lethe]

It is wrong because it is an act of discrimination and it denies women their civil rights. People should be paid based on their work performance, not their sex, race, and so on.

Thank you for speaking my mind :).

[Korashk]

Are you serious??? How'd you like to be paid less than someone else simply because of your gender???
If they want more pay, they should negotiate with their employers. Not demand that because they have the same job, their employers should be forced by the government to pay them the same regardless of quality of work, time with the company, terms of the employment contract, personal circumstances, etc.

It is wrong because it is an act of discrimination and it denies women their civil rights.
Why does that make it wrong?

[Iris]

If they want more pay, they should negotiate with their employers. Not demand that because they have the same job, their employers should be forced by the government to pay them the same regardless of quality of work, time with the company, terms of the employment contract, personal circumstances, etc.

We're saying that the problem is that women who do the same quality of work, spend the same amount of time, have the same employment contract and basic personal circumstances etc. aren't paid the same amount as men. In that case the reason the woman isn't paid equally is because the employer is a sexist and believes that women are inferior to men, which isn't true, and morally wrong. All employees have the right to negotiate raises etc but the basic payment must be the same if the same work is done.


Why does that make it wrong?

It's not ok. Do you believe that blacks should still be slaves? Do you believe that animals can be tortured for fun? Do you believe it's ok to steal and murder? Hopefully not (and if you think it's fine you've got bigger problems and should go get professional help). Discrimination is wrong.. It's not logical and it's morally wrong.

[BFG9001]

Why exactly is it wrong?
Also, I'm not against you, just posing a question.

[Iris]

Why exactly is it wrong?

Discrimination is wrong. It hurts people psychologically and economically etc. Discrimination includes treating people like they are less than you because of the color of their skin(racism) or their age (ageism), or giving them less pay for the same job because of their gender (sexism). If you can't understand the concept of discrimination being wrong do some researching because this thread will not make sense to you until that is clear in your mind.
Paying women less for the same exact job (I'm not talking about raises and promotions right now) is discrimination. Therefore paying women less for the exact same job is wrong. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men, they shouldn't be payed less simply because some people think that a woman is less than a man.

[BFG9001]

There we go.

[Sith Lord 13]

Let the market force the issue. If women want the same pay as men, they have to force the issue, and make themselves as valuable to the company as men. It's about the strength of the personal negotiation.

[User Deleted]

Not to be a jerk... but girls often get lower car insurance rates too so it seems to even out.

[Jess]

wait, how do girls get lower car insurance rates? :confused:

[Iris]

Let the market force the issue. If women want the same pay as men, they have to force the issue, and make themselves as valuable to the company as men. It's about the strength of the personal negotiation.

No they shouldn't. Perhaps for raises and promotions. But women should not have to continuously prove that they are as capable as men. Do men have to constantly haggle for the BASIC amount of pay? No. Women shouldn't either. They were interviewed and chosen just like the men were. They are just as capable. They should not have to constantly fight to get equal pay.

[Sith Lord 13]

No they shouldn't. Perhaps for raises and promotions. But women should not have to continuously prove that they are as capable as men. Do men have to constantly haggle for the BASIC amount of pay? No. Women shouldn't either. They were interviewed and chosen just like the men were. They are just as capable. They should not have to constantly fight to get equal pay.

They're not fighting to get equal pay. They're fighting to get their pay, just like the men fought to get theirs. Whoever drove the tougher bargain gets higher pay.

[User Deleted]

wait, how do girls get lower car insurance rates? :confused:

They are "alaways safer drivers" so especially teenage girls get it cheaper than teenage boys.

[Scarface]

wait, how do girls get lower car insurance rates? :confused:

Because younger men pose a bigger threat when driving than woman. That isn't my ass talking, that's actually how insurance companies are. I've worked for fortune 500 companies and under the table work, and I've worked FOR woman, not the other way around and to be honest, they're fuckin horrible to work for, but better to work with.

I like Alex's explanation to this, for example Burlington Coat Factory is one of the corporations I currently work for and they all start you out at 7.25 an hour. Now if you prove to be an asset to the company, they will give you a better rate. But you ain't going to "negotiate" or "barter" your way to better pay with these companies, you start at the bottom like at any other corporation. The only thing I see woman not doing is the heavy work which is quite obvious and still get the same pay. I've not seen as much on this issue in the work force HERE unless you're working under the table which for obvious reasons, leaves you vulnerable to get screwed over because your pay isn't in writing at that point. Also it depends on the position you're working as well. Maybe you could show some specific companies that are doing this? Is this happening a lot in America? If so, I'd like to see a source on it.

[Iris]

They're not fighting to get equal pay. They're fighting to get their pay, just like the men fought to get theirs. Whoever drove the tougher bargain gets higher pay.

Everyone is fighting to get higher pay, but this situation is about the simple, basic, equal pay. The pay you get the first month when all you've got is your resume and no one knows exactly what kind of employee you'll turn out to be.

[Sith Lord 13]

Everyone is fighting to get higher pay, but this situation is about the simple, basic, equal pay. The pay you get the first month when all you've got is your resume and no one knows exactly what kind of employee you'll turn out to be.

Then it's about who drove the harder bargain during the interview.

[Scarface]

Everyone is fighting to get higher pay, but this situation is about the simple, basic, equal pay. The pay you get the first month when all you've got is your resume and no one knows exactly what kind of employee you'll turn out to be.
At this point in this economy hun, and especially in my state, they don't give a fuck what they're getting paid. They want a JOB. There's people out there such as union workers which I'm trying to work my way into getting certified into, are taking half pay cuts and swallowing that just so they can keep their job. Even with your resume and experience level very high and beefed up in your resume, some may go to the extent of you being "over qualified" for the position. It all varies by person and experience.

Then it's about who drove the harder bargain during the interview.

It's not about bargaining, but more so showing how you can be an asset to the company, that's more so the entire point. On most applications they will ask how much you ot paid by your previous employers and how much pay you expect to be payed in the future with the job. That pay is not guaranteed.

[Iris]

At this point in this economy hun, and especially in my state, they don't give a fuck what they're getting paid. They want a JOB. There's people out there such as union workers which I'm trying to work my way into getting certified into, are taking half pay cuts and swallowing that just so they can keep their job. Even with your resume and experience level very high and beefed up in your resume, some may go to the extent of you being "over qualified" for the position. It all varies by person and experience.

The point is that if people are going to get less pay in general at least both men and women get the same cuts.

[Lethe]

Women shouldn't have to push for equal wages. Women are human beings too; we are just as intelligent and work-friendly as men are. In terms of the work environment, women and men who are performing the same exact job are absolutely equal. Being female doesn't make you less worthy of the same pay. Saying that women have to push for something that should be mandatory is like saying African Americans should still be in slavery. There is no excuse for that type of discrimination. A person who doesn't think its wrong women are paid less for the same job as a man is very obviously not a person who wants equality in this world.

[Sporadica]

It's not illegal as long as they still get paid minimum wage. To be honest I might sound sexist here but if a strong man can lift say 70 for his job, I will definitely pay him more because he's worth more to me than say a woman who can only lift half as much, now I wont pay half as much as the man but I definitely will pay the man more because he can do more

I'm making the example of a warehouse job basically

[Iris]

It's not illegal as long as they still get paid minimum wage. To be honest I might sound sexist here but if a strong man can lift say 70 for his job, I will definitely pay him more because he's worth more to me than say a woman who can only lift half as much, now I wont pay half as much as the man but I definitely will pay the man more because he can do more

I'm making the example of a warehouse job basically

1. If a person is not qualified for the job then you don't hire him/her in the first place. That is not about sexism. There are men that are physically stronger than women. There are also women that are physically stronger than men. You pick people for the job individually because of that. If you assume that all women are weaker and unqualified and therefore don't give women a chance, then you're being sexist.

2. This is the 21st century. The vast majority of jobs require more than simple brute strength, which, admittedly, is found more in men than in women. Now people need organization and a work ethic and many other things to perform their jobs efficiently. For example, one of the male workers may be able to lift more but comes to work three hours late (in the warehouse example). Jobs aren't as much about strength nowadays. To counter your argument, would you automatically refuse to hire a male preschool teacher because women are generally more caring than men? No, because there are many, many men who are just as caring and compassionate with kids.

[Timmy93]

you never will be thats the problem there will always be a person that won't treat people equally.

[TheMatrix]

you never will be thats the problem there will always be a person that won't treat people equally.
and this has to do with....what?

[Sporadica]

you never will be thats the problem there will always be a person that won't treat people equally.

who are you talking to? make a quote or "to _____....."

just trying to make the forums simpler

[PerpetualImperfexion]

It is wrong because it is an act of discrimination and it denies women their civil rights. People should be paid based on their work performance, not their sex, race, and so on.

So should they allow men to work at Hooters? I agree with you completely, just trying to make a point.

[Iris]

So should they allow men to work at Hooters? I agree with you completely, just trying to make a point.

That job is gender specific-as in one of the requirements to work there is to have boobs and look like a female. The same way that strip clubs with only male strippers aren't sexist because the job can only be fulfilled by a certain gender, because of their genitalia. However office jobs or entrepreneurial jobs have to do with brains, intelligence, which both men and women have, so denying a woman a job in such a position because of a preconceived notion that women are not as intelligent or capable as men is sexist, and discrimination.

[Timmy93]

I'm talking to everybody the question was "How can we make sure....." so i'm saying you won't because not everybody is raised the same so people still won't pay women the same its that simple.

[Angel Androgynous]

Wow.... I hate sexism.
If a woman is doing the exact same job as a man, and is doing a good job and is getting paid less, then that is sexism and is unfair. I don't get why women have to "prove themselves" and men don't. I still can't believe sexism goes on in today's society. Or racism... heck even homophobia. Come on people, time for change!
Either way, everything has been said for me.