Endangered Species.

[Genghis Khan]

Speaking to a friend the other day who insisted that some people focus too much on saving endangered species from becoming extinct and people should put their attentiveness to Political issues and problems that concern us as humans instead. Her view is, so what if our children will never see the Blue Whale or the Panda, why is that bad, and why should we make an effort to put an end to it.

Don't personally agree, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions.

SO LONG AS YOU CAN BACK THEM UP AND EVALUATE THEM.

I don't want people posting it and when it's questioned say 'respect my opinion'.

[Amnesiac]

I don't think your friend understand how food webs work, or the concept of biodiversity.

[Genghis Khan]

I don't think your friend understand how food webs work, or the concept of biodiversity.

Actually, our argument was more to do with Endangered Species than biodiversity, the only reason I added that in was because I was reading the pros and cons of this topic with the same name as this on another website. If I could change this thread, I would probably take out the biodiversity bit.

[RoseyCadaver]

Well I believe keeping biodiversity is one thing that keeps this planet a float.You can't just have one type of grass,what if that one type of grasses wasn't immune to one disease?Then all that grass would die. Humans keep breeding animals for a "perfect" pure breed.All a pure breed is a overly insected un-unique blob of genetics.Very simple simple genetics,this is a fact.Most mutt dogs out live any pure breed.Many people think that we shouldn't worry about our ecosystems.While our ecosystems may not be signing our checks,it is one thing that feeds us.

I was reading a National Geographic Magazine and the topic was over Bio Diversity,it was showing how delicate the food web is that if one thing on the bottom of it was tampered it could ruin the whole thing.People don't seem to realize how important it is.

Some scientist are so worried about biodiversity they have this giant seed vault up in Norway.One of the scientist said we're doing this for those you never no dooms day things,but we could cause our doomsday without preserving life for the future and keeping biodiversity.

So I think biodiversity is very important and it ties in with endangered species.

Endangered species links right with biodiversity ,like I said if one species gets endangered and dies off,it would rec up a whole food web,which that one would do the same for another.

[Amnesiac]

Actually, our argument was more to do with Endangered Species than biodiversity, the only reason I added that in was because I was reading the pros and cons of this topic with the same name as this on another website. If I could change this thread, I would probably take out the biodiversity bit.

You can edit the title by editing your original post.

Also, the health of the various species that occupy this planet is indirectly related to the health of the human race as a whole. When a species dies, the ones that rely on it for food also die, and the ones that it preyed on overpopulate. Such imbalances will even out eventually, but only after long periods of instability that aren't good for anyone.

It's in the best interests of everyone to help endangered species back to their previous population levels. In the long term, the problems caused by species going extinct aren't preferable environmentally or economically.

[Magus]

Some people perhaps never heard of the "Aeroplane Rivet Popper Theory".

Some species are better off dead than alive.

[RoseyCadaver]

Some people perhaps never heard of the "Aeroplane Rivet Popper Theory".

Some species are better off dead than alive.

Could you maybe explain the theory for me?

[Genghis Khan]

Some species are better off dead than alive.

Which ones in particular and why?

[Magus]

Could you maybe explain the theory for me?[/)UOTE]I have explained this before. Long story short. There are rivets(species) that are in the aeroplane if you remove them, will not effect the aeroplane(ecosystem), they are considered to be on the seats and and belts and stuff aka unimportant species, that if they are gone, won't be a difference.

And there are rivets(species), if are removed from the, say, the hall of the plane, the aeroplane will start to vibrate, means that these species are important to the ecosystem.


[QUOTE=genghiskhan;1304560]Which ones in particular and why?
Argentine Ant is an example.

[Genghis Khan]

Looks quite similar to the fire ant, only the fire ant is not a household pest and minds its own business.

[RoseyCadaver]

[QUOTE=secretsalt;1304395]Could you maybe explain the theory for me?[/)UOTE]I have explained this before. Long story short. There are rivets(species) that are in the aeroplane if you remove them, will not effect the aeroplane(ecosystem), they are considered to be on the seats and and belts and stuff aka unimportant species, that if they are gone, won't be a difference.

And there are rivets(species), if are removed from the, say, the hall of the plane, the aeroplane will start to vibrate, means that these species are important to the ecosystem.



Argentine Ant is an example.

So we are comparing an abiotic system a biotic system?I mean it's a very good analogy,but I think that is what it is,an analogy.If they have tested this theory ,lol but you would have to "remove" the species XD,and it's based on facts and not just an analogy then I could see it.

I think that it is very silly to say taking away one species does nothing.The ecosystem is like a clock,you need all gears to keep it moving,even if you take one of the small gears,the clock is probably going to be a little slow or stop working.Or it's a spider web,even the small threads help hold up the big ones,and removing one can be eventually lead to it breaking apart.

[Magus]

Or it's a spider web,even the small threads help hold up the big ones,and removing one can be eventually lead to it breaking apart.Just like you put a burden of proof on my rivet popper theory, then you should also have a burden of proof your theory.

Why any one single species is considered an important gear, or a gear for that matter?

There are some species, like I said, without them, the ecosystem will not suffer, let alone crumble into nothingness.

[RoseyCadaver]

There are some species, like I said, without them, the ecosystem will not suffer, let alone crumble into nothingness.

True,but to say it wouldn't effect it at all in a negative way is a very arrogant thing(which I'm not saying you said that),well I believe it is a little arrogant.

You know ,just a very fragile food web that releys on each other :rolleyes:.

[Magus]

True,but to say it wouldn't effect it at all in a negative way is a very arrogant thing(which I'm not saying you said that),well I believe it is a little arrogant.And whatever that means. I don't know why it's "arrogant", or perhaps you want to say "ignorant" - whichever the case maybe, since there is nothing that backs up that argument and the counter-argument, it's useless to attack it without an empirical argument.

I live in a desert neggaz, not in a tropical rainforest.


You know ,just a very fragile food web that releys on each other :rolleyes:.Non Causa Pro Causa

[RoseyCadaver]

And whatever that means. I don't know why it's "arrogant", or perhaps you want to say "ignorant" - whichever the case maybe, since there is nothing that backs up that argument and the counter-argument, it's useless to attack it without an empirical argument.

I live in a desert neggaz, not in a tropical rainforest.

I find people who are arrogant to these types of things, they have no worries for it ,it won't hurt them ,to be quite ignorant ,so both I guess.People don't realize how much the environment effects our way of living,or even letting us a be alive.There are many ways to back up how important a species can be.

SideNote--> Natural extinction is one thing,but animal or any other thing for that matter extinction caused by humans is a WHOLE other.

I live in a desert neggaz, not in a tropical rainforest.


I didn't say you didn't.I live in Arkansas,we got a taste of everything here XP.


AnotherSidenote-->I love how people throw that word around,in my area,which isn't a good one,you'll get beat up within seconds of saying that :lol:.But all is far Fun and War :).


Non Causa Pro Causa
How is it not for the cause?Species that go endangered by human activity could have affect a whole other species.Then they die off,that turns into a snowball rolling down the hill.The food web is very well related to the endanger topic.

[Genghis Khan]

SideNote--> Natural extinction is one thing,but animal or any other thing for that matter extinction caused by humans is a WHOLE other.

Couldn't agree more. Leave it up to nature to make these decisions. Just because we are the dominant species doesn't somehow give us some divine right to fuck with nature.

[huginnmuninn]

SideNote--> Natural extinction is one thing,but animal or any other thing for that matter extinction caused by humans is a WHOLE other.




but humans are a part of nature. anything we do to another species could be considered natural. so it could be considered natural extinction if humans took out another species.

[Genghis Khan]

but humans are a part of nature. anything we do to another species could be considered natural. so it could be considered natural extinction if humans took out another species.

We are. But there aren't many cases or any (if you can mention some I'll take this back because I'm speaking from my own limited knowledge) where one species of the entire ecosystem has completely wiped out another and please don't mention the annihilation of Native Indians. Can you provide any examples of a species of animal dying out because of being consumed or hunted down by another?

[huginnmuninn]

We are. But there aren't many cases or any (if you can mention some I'll take this back because I'm speaking from my own limited knowledge) where one species of the entire ecosystem has completely wiped out another and please don't mention the annihilation of Native Indians. Can you provide any examples of a species of animal dying out because of being consumed or hunted down by another?

I cant think of any animals specifically but there have been many species of animals on this planet and to think that they all died from natural disaster would be ignorant. chances are that throughout time certain animals have killed other species of animals for reasons such as food or one animal taking control of a land area by sheer number and scaring off other animals.

[RoseyCadaver]

but humans are a part of nature. anything we do to another species could be considered natural. so it could be considered natural extinction if humans took out another species.

Most animals don't eat all the different types of animals,most species eat one type of animals(as in genus,not species),but then again,not every animals has learned to spread out on the whole world.

Even if it is natural,what we're doing isn't really good for anyone,including us.

Oh and hunting is one thing,testing animals for fun cosmetics is another.

[scuba steve]

We are. But there aren't many cases or any (if you can mention some I'll take this back because I'm speaking from my own limited knowledge) where one species of the entire ecosystem has completely wiped out another and please don't mention the annihilation of Native Indians. Can you provide any examples of a species of animal dying out because of being consumed or hunted down by another?

We were responsible for the extinction of the Dodo. But none that I know of that didn't involve human contact.

[Dorsum Oppel]

There are some species, like I said, without them, the ecosystem will not suffer, let alone crumble into nothingness.

However it's nearly impossible to know until you do. You think it's a stupid pest in an independant biological niche, until you get rid of it. Them you realize it's waste created important nutrients for your soil, and your rice crop is gone.

Or maybe things will be fine for a while, and then a use for it will come along later. Let's say we all like russet potatoes, and they're all we want. There's all these other varieties of potato, but no one likes them, so we let them die off. Now when all our potato crops are dying because of one pest, and the gene pool is so skimpy, then we have billions of starving people (the great potato famine of ireland) and we could have interbred the russet with the peruvian papa rojo. Too bad we let it go.

[RoseyCadaver]

However it's nearly impossible to know until you do. You think it's a stupid pest in an independant biological niche, until you get rid of it. Them you realize it's waste created important nutrients for your soil, and your rice crop is gone.

Or maybe things will be fine for a while, and then a use for it will come along later. Let's say we all like russet potatoes, and they're all we want. There's all these other varieties of potato, but no one likes them, so we let them die off. Now when all our potato crops are dying because of one pest, and the gene pool is so skimpy, then we have billions of starving people (the great potato famine of ireland) and we could have interbred the russet with the peruvian papa rojo. Too bad we let it go.

Exactly what I was saying,you just did in a better fashion.

As I've been saying,people don't realize how fragile our food web is,or eco system.They think if there is a little pest to us,killing it couldn't do anything.Think if everyone was an arachnophobe, and for some reason we killed off most spiders,think of all the bugs spiders keep in check ,or think about all the things that eat spiders.Think about the things that eat that.Think about the things decompose the THAT and what goes back into our soil.

Now think if the spiders prey over populated(a what if ) and they ate more then their share of resources (like humans lol),and eventually that titled things a bit,then other organisms like animals A and B that aren't preyed on the spiders prey or prey on them would be affected.Killing off one species negative effects could take forever to notice or tomorrow.So never REALLY now until it happens.

[EON-]

[QUOTE=secretsalt;1304395]There are rivets(species) that are in the aeroplane if you remove them, will not effect the aeroplane(ecosystem), they are considered to be on the seats and and belts and stuff aka unimportant species, that if they are gone, won't be a difference.


I guess you can count humans as rivets... If we were all to die off, there would be very little negative impact on the ecosystem.

[Magus]

I find people who are arrogant to these types of things, they have no worries for it ,it won't hurt them ,to be quite ignorant ,so both I guess.People don't realize how much the environment effects our way of living,or even letting us a be alive.There are many ways to back up how important a species can be.I have no fucking worries about the environment, I am not a tree hugging hindu hippie any more. Arrogant, ignorant -- call me whatever you want, I just have no regard to environment.

I am a fucking rivethead, I drink benzene and diesel and eat rusted scrap metal and dried grease for sustenance .


SideNote--> Natural extinction is one thing,but animal or any other thing for that matter extinction caused by humans is a WHOLE other.
Don't we all know this?


AnotherSidenote-->I love how people throw that word around,in my area,which isn't a good one,you'll get beat up within seconds of saying that :lol:.But all is far Fun and War :).
Your people need to shill da fuck out.


How is it not for the cause?Species that go endangered by human activity could have affect a whole other species.Then they die off,that turns into a snowball rolling down the hill.The food web is very well related to the endanger topic.How is it not for the cause?? Read that again, and google it.

Did I say species get instinct because we did something to the species? According to statisticians and Biologists, hundred of species of low life form and one of complex species die every year and for variety reasons. I don't see the fucking nature dying(looks at Ice-age and Dinosaur extinction).

I should have mentioned the Latitudinal Gradients of species biodiversity.

I cant think of any animals specifically but there have been many species of animals on this planet and to think that they all died from natural disaster would be ignorant.You guys love to use the word "Ignorant" -- no, there are many other factor that results in destroying the species.

chances are that throughout time certain animals have killed other species of animals for reasons such as food or one animal taking control of a land area by sheer number and scaring off other animals. Animals are smart enough not to kill their preys completely. If they do so, they themselves will suffer a lot.
Most animals don't eat all the different types of animals,most species eat one type of animals(as in genus,not species),but then again,not every animals has learned to spread out on the whole world.False. During the Great Immigration, predators like Cheetahs, Vultures, Crocodiles and etc hunt Zebras, Gnus, Antelopes and etc. I thought you do watch NG channel(they show this every month).

Animals like Bear, not only eat migrating fish, but different small animals and even plants. There are tons of examples. Us, humans are also an example.

Even if it is natural,what we're doing isn't really good for anyone,including us.Agreed, neggah.


Oh and hunting is one thing,testing animals for fun cosmetics is another.I don't mind animal being used as test subject(oh, you now wish you never give me the rep :P). Ok, I am joking. I am a biocentrists. I am not an advocate of animals being test subjects, but who am I to judge what others do?

However it's nearly impossible to know until you do. You think it's a stupid pest in an independant biological niche, until you get rid of it. Them you realize it's waste created important nutrients for your soil, and your rice crop is gone.

Let's say we all like russet potatoes, and they're all we want. There's all these other varieties of potato, but no one likes them, so we let them die off. Now when all our potato crops are dying because of one pest, and the gene pool is so skimpy, then we have billions of starving people (the great potato famine of ireland) and we could have interbred the russet with the peruvian papa rojo. Too bad we let it go.

1) I believe I already know terms such as symbiosy and commensalism and etc.

2) Plants(be them weeds, modified roots and etc) are primary producers, destroying anyone of them will create a natural havoc.

Now think if the spiders prey over populated(a what if ) and they ate more then their share of resources (like humans lol),and eventually that titled things a bit,then other organisms like animals A and B that aren't preyed on the spiders prey or prey on them would be affected.Killing off one species negative effects could take forever to notice or tomorrow.So never REALLY now until it happens.Invading Species - nuff said.

I guess you can count humans as rivets... If we were all to die off, there would be very little negative impact on the ecosystem.Read the theory again.

[RoseyCadaver]

I am a fucking rivethead, I drink benzene and diesel and eat rusted scrap metal and dried grease for sustenance .

Rofl xD

You guys love to use the word "Ignorant" -- no, there are many other factor that results in destroying the species.
Animals are smart enough not to kill their preys completely. If they do so, they themselves will suffer a lot.

I guess we aren't smart enough, fisheries collapsing,1/3 the world well fed only.

False. During the Great Immigration, predators like Cheetahs, Vultures, Crocodiles and etc hunt Zebras, Gnus, Antelopes and etc. I thought you do watch NG channel(they show this every month).



Animals like Bear, not only eat migrating fish, but different small animals and even plants. There are tons of examples. Us, humans are also an example.

Yes, I should have been more clear,but none the less you don't see animals of just on species hunting and eat all the other animals.I mean humans eat almost everything on this fuckin ball of life(which could explain why we survived moving :D.



Agreed, neggah.

Don't make me get BonQuiqui to shoot yo handsome ass xD.

I don't mind animal being used as test subject(oh, you now wish you never give me the rep :P). Ok, I am joking. I am a biocentrists. I am not an advocate of animals being test subjects, but who am I to judge what others do?

Rofl No I gave you rep cause you're cool,I don't take back on rep because we disagree on something X].

Well maybe it's time you start being an animal advocate and start judging xD.