Illegal Immigration in the US

[Bimmerhead]

I believe that the United States should really crack down on illegal immigration! I being from Southern California see what this problem has done to the state and really think we should do more to stop it. These people come to this country and steal jobs from tax paying citizens. Sure some of these jobs may not be the best but in our current economic situation and with the amount of people out of work im sure these jobs would get done. Our hospitals are also filled with the offspring of illegals who are now citizens! Who will pay for the pregnancy? Not them. The tax payers! Now they have a child that they can collect welfare and food stamps from. These people don't pay taxes so its left for the American citizens to flip the bill for the child's healthcare, education and overall well being if the parents are deemed unfit. How is this fair for our nations tax payers? I believe in people immigrating to this country through proper channels so they can pay into the system and become productive members of society! Did you know that in the state of California a police officer is not even allowed to ask for proof of citizenship!? I think this is one of the number one reasons California is turning into a third world country! Maybe my views are a little extreme to some but if change doesn't happen soon we are going to be in big trouble. What are your thoughts on this highly controversial subject?

[embers]

California isn't a country, therefore incapable of becoming a third-world country. And in terms of that concept itself, I think you've no fucking clue what a third-world country is then if you think such a petty thing defines one.

[Bimmerhead]

California isn't a country, therefore incapable of becoming a third-world country. And in terms of that concept itself, I think you've no fucking clue what a third-world country is then if you think such a petty thing defines one.

Wow honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. California is the 8th largest economy in the world! In a way we are our own country! I was talking about the US as a whole but using Cali as an example! as per norm though people like you have to chip in and insult people adding nothing to the discussion! You being from England probably have never been to California or the US for that matter and wouldn't know anything about the subject matter. So do me a favor and but out :)

[embers]

Wow honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. California is the 8th largest economy in the world! In a way we are our own country! I was talking about the US as a whole but using Cali as an example! as per norm though people like you have to chip in and insult people adding nothing to the discussion! You being from England probably have never been to California or the US for that matter and wouldn't know anything about the subject matter. So do me a favor and but out :)

No in fact, I haven't been to America. You know why? Because of your fucking paranoid immigration system. I was denied a visa to go on a ski trip because I am Pakistani. A school ski trip. I had every document required, there was nothing wrong, but hey you know, in a country that's built a metaphorical thick concrete wall around itself in terms of immigration, it ain't enough! You gotta crack down on it!

But I stick to my words. You haven't a clue about the conditions of a third-world country if you persist in comparing California to one.

[Hope4u]

Is anyone on this forum a 100% Native American..because if not then we're all illegal immigrants....don't remember the Indians sending out invitations to the New World..we everyone just kinda showed up and took over didn't they.

[Azunite]

California isn't a country, therefore incapable of becoming a third-world country. And in terms of that concept itself, I think you've no fucking clue what a third-world country is then if you think such a petty thing defines one.

Leave it man. I have more information about America than this guy. This was the guy who thought Bin Laden was the Main Guy of Iraq.

Wow honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. California is the 8th largest economy in the world! In a way we are our own country! I was talking about the US as a whole but using Cali as an example! as per norm though people like you have to chip in and insult people adding nothing to the discussion! You being from England probably have never been to California or the US for that matter and wouldn't know anything about the subject matter. So do me a favor and but out :)


California is the 8th largest economy in the world? They should just destroy all marijuana in the world man, obviously you had too many already. So you see, we have something called G-8. Here we have the best economies in the world. So there is America, France, Germany, etc... Oh wait! No good ole' Cali! Because it isn't a fucking country! It is a state made of few cities, including the famous Hollywood, the Poker Town and a long red Bridge! How come it is a world superpower, with the world's greatest 8th economy. Cali is the HQ of American porn industry, but that doesn't mean they have the best economy...

By the way, do you go to school? Or are you home educated?

Nothing further, Your Honor. I back off now.

[Amnesiac]

I believe that the United States should really crack down on illegal immigration! I being from Southern California see what this problem has done to the state and really think we should do more to stop it. These people come to this country and steal jobs from tax paying citizens. Sure some of these jobs may not be the best but in our current economic situation and with the amount of people out of work im sure these jobs would get done. Our hospitals are also filled with the offspring of illegals who are now citizens! Who will pay for the pregnancy? Not them. The tax payers! Now they have a child that they can collect welfare and food stamps from. These people don't pay taxes so its left for the American citizens to flip the bill for the child's healthcare, education and overall well being if the parents are deemed unfit. How is this fair for our nations tax payers? I believe in people immigrating to this country through proper channels so they can pay into the system and become productive members of society! Did you know that in the state of California a police officer is not even allowed to ask for proof of citizenship!? I think this is one of the number one reasons California is turning into a third world country! Maybe my views are a little extreme to some but if change doesn't happen soon we are going to be in big trouble. What are your thoughts on this highly controversial subject?

Most of that sounds like conspiratorial dribble. As for the illegals, you can blame the corporations that hire them for the massive number of undocumented workers. The meatpacking industry is pretty much built on sketchy migrant workers.

With the millions of illegals already in the U.S., it's clear that the system needs reforming. I'm an immigrant myself (legal), and the process to get a green card is ridiculously expensive and bureaucratic. However, so-called "solutions" like building border fences are a waste of money and time. Illegal immigration will always exist as long as people have the freedom to travel; thus, we must make it more attractive to immigrate legally. I'm not saying we shouldn't crack down on border crossings, but it's not something that large amounts of money need to be spent on.

[Azunite]

Illegal immigration will always exist as long as people have the freedom to travel

I miss Soviet Russia.

[Continuum]

I miss Soviet Russia.

Aye. And let's hope there would be no butting in from those dirty Capitalists once we rebuild our great nation. None shall pass!


Leave it man. I have more information about America than this guy. This was the guy who thought Bin Laden was the Main Guy of Iraq.

It isn't him. It was the Random3r guy.

*Yes, I am defending him. Sadly*

Wow honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. California is the 8th largest economy in the world! In a way we are our own country!

Size does not matter, buddy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic)

as per norm though people like you have to chip in and insult people adding nothing to the discussion!

Your fastidious banterings aren't making progress, either. You know, with that kind of attitude, you are already insulting the whole ROTW community.

You being from England probably have never been to California or the US for that matter and wouldn't know anything about the subject matter.

So you are just not letting us post on your thread. Is that it? Are you even authorized to just block out our liberty to speak? VT is a global community. I am a fucking Filipino. Americans just build up just a portion of VT. If you want to make progress here, don't be discriminant.

Back on topic, I do not think the US can crack down the Illegal Immigration gig. I mean, most illegal immigrants just want a taste of the good life. I know it isn't particularly legal, so as to speak, but they're out of choices. I'm not talking about the Drug Cartels and their couriers either. They need to cracked down. I'm talking about uneducated expatriates who are dueling with the worst conditions in life so as to get a decent life. On the other hand, your government is scrambling to get them from crossing the border. They shouldn't be so much brutal on them, even though they may be providing syndicates Logistic services. Instead, like Lithium said, provide a better and secure immigration program for them to choose.

[Jawbreaker]

As someone who was, for a time, illegally here in this country, I can tell you that your points are completely wrong, your anger misplaced and that you need to understand the conditions of people who come to this country illegally.

First, let's look at your claim that illegal immigrants "steal" jobs from tax-payers. The claim is inane. Who was here first: the illegal immigrant or the native resident? Therefore, who had the advantage in getting work first? Quite frankly, illegal immigrants just pick-up the jobs nobody else is willing to do--they eat the leftovers, if you will. Thanks to the U.S.'s welfare system, many people who lost their jobs actually make more staying unemployed than getting the work of an illegal immigrant! This means that even IF no illegal immigrants were here, the jobs that they take would be left untaken, since who would take a crappy job when they can just get welfare and make more money? It should also be noted that welfare isn't AS economically wasteful as it sounds because people are still purchasing things with their "income." Just a note.

Actually, let me tell you straight-up, illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Most have to give out bogus Social Security numbers to their employers, meaning that they have to pay Federal Taxes and pay into Social Security. Of course, because they have bogus SS numbers, they can never reclaim anything, so they wind up paying into the system but never getting anything back. It is estimated that they contribute billions into the SS system, meaning that they're one of the big reasons that keep the system afloat!

They obviously have to pay a lot of state taxes, directly or indirectly. For example, a lot of states have sales taxes and so, anytime they purchase anything, they're paying taxes. Or if they're using a bridge, the toll they pay also counts as a tax. My mom worked as an illegal immigrant. She has had to pay State taxes; so have other illegal immigrants we've met and talked to. At any rate, it is estimated that illegal immigrants more or less wind up paying for their expenses at the Hospitals and through K-12 education (and this is not counting how educating children actually helps everyone in society in the long-run!). Some figures (probably the most accurate) estimate that an illegal immigrant is, at first, a slight burden to society and then, after about 5 years, becomes one of society's most productive members. One only need look at their high employment rates and low crime rates (lower than citizens!) to see the truth in this.

As LithiumAneurysm noted, legal immigration is quite burdensome, expensive and tedious. Most people who immigrate here illegally do not have the resources or time to come here legally. To them, coming to the U.S. is a matter of life and death, not only to them, but to their family. Our immigration system is NOT based on labor demands, and it is this high demand for cheap labor in our economy that fuels illegal immigration. The last thing you want in a recession is to get rid of people with jobs, ESPECIALLY if they are cheap jobs that keep prices down.

In short, stopping illegal immigration, which is not only expensive and, until our system is reformed, ineffective, is nothing more than a counter-productive and inhumane measure.

[RoseyCadaver]

[QUOTE=embers;1292681]No in fact, I haven't been to America. You know why? Because of your fucking paranoid immigration system.[QUOTE]

I hate to say it,but thats why none of my cousins want to come over here because they fear the immigtaion system :( .\

I think illegal immigrants wouldn't have to be sneaking in if maybe the government wouldn't take so long to allow citizen ship.A hispanic or any person from any background who comes over here(legally or illegally),I welcome them with a hug.If you're here to help socitety(I sound weird saying that XD) or help aid America's much needed new culture and our economy,then yes please come!I love all other cultures food too.I'm starting to think Americans are too xenophobic.My cousin is rather ignorant ,her boy friend is 1/2 puerto rican,she said do think he grossed the BORDER OF MEXICO illgeally!I was like wtf?I'm 1/4 mexican,does that mean my father crossed the border?Off topic sorry.

I was saying that maybe we would have more workers or more people to help if we were more leanete on the system,oh and to say that Cali will become a third country because of illegal immigrants is very absurd.

[Wicked_Syn]

Wow honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. California is the 8th largest economy in the world! In a way we are our own country! I was talking about the US as a whole but using Cali as an example! as per norm though people like you have to chip in and insult people adding nothing to the discussion! You being from England probably have never been to California or the US for that matter and wouldn't know anything about the subject matter. So do me a favor and but out :)

VT NEEDS A "LIKE" BUTTON!!!
I'm with you on this one man. People outside of the US, who've never been here seem to think they know so much about our country.


Is anyone on this forum a 100% Native American..because if not then we're all illegal immigrants....don't remember the Indians sending out invitations to the New World..we everyone just kinda showed up and took over didn't they.

LIKE

[Magus]

VT NEEDS A "LIKE" BUTTON!!!
I'm with you on this one man. People outside of the US, who've never been here seem to think they know so much about our country.People from U.S think they know every shit in Middle-East.

Oh, I THINK I AM TEH ONE WHO IS IN LIVING MIDDLE-EAST!!!11!!1 So I SHOULD KNOW MY SHIT BETTER THAN AMERIKHAAANZZZ

Is that what you are trying to convey?

Just because we don't live there that doesn't mean we don't know about it. That's a logical fallacy in its purest form.

[Wicked_Syn]

People from U.S think they know every shit in Middle-East.

Oh, I THINK I AM TEH ONE WHO IS IN LIVING MIDDLE-EAST!!!11!!1 So I SHOULD KNOW MY SHIT BETTER THAN AMERIKHAAANZZZ

Is that what you are trying to convey?

Just because we don't live there that doesn't mean we don't know about it. That's a logical fallacy in its purest form.

Hmm, I didn't say I know everything about the middle east, did I? Heres another thing...I dont give a fuck about what's going on over there. I really don't. Some of us Americans do seem to think that we do. And yes some of us are cocky as hell, but i'm just saying some of you are stuck up to, so don't go playing that card on me.

[Continuum]

Hmm, I didn't say I know everything about the middle east, did I?

Actually, what you have said a while ago is completely analogous to what Faris is implying. But I shall thank you for being honest. :rolleyes:

[Azunite]

People from U.S think they know every shit in Middle-East.

Oh, I THINK I AM TEH ONE WHO IS IN LIVING MIDDLE-EAST!!!11!!1 So I SHOULD KNOW MY SHIT BETTER THAN AMERIKHAAANZZZ

Is that what you are trying to convey?

Just because we don't live there that doesn't mean we don't know about it. That's a logical fallacy in its purest form.

Don't yu know Fariz Middel-East is Amerikan soil now! We should learn about it, right iWeedz? And since Middel-East iz Amerika now you better just shut the fuck up and try to make some advancements in your cultural and geographical knowledge!


Alright what I said was so random and I have no fucking idea why I said it. And after what the OP said, SOME people outside America can know more about it than it's citizens.

[RoseyCadaver]

People from U.S think they know every shit in Middle-East.

Oh, I THINK I AM TEH ONE WHO IS IN LIVING MIDDLE-EAST!!!11!!1 So I SHOULD KNOW MY SHIT BETTER THAN AMERIKHAAANZZZ

Is that what you are trying to convey?

Just because we don't live there that doesn't mean we don't know about it. That's a logical fallacy in its purest form.

THe FUCK ARE YOU TALING BOUT!We know our stuff xD!


Sadly,at least where I live,people think they know about other countries so well and how "bad" their governments are treating THEM.The don't think for one second our government could be doing something "as bad" as their government is "doing them".

To top it off,I know people saying that America is alreay a third world country and the illegals are making it worse,all I had to say is wait til hyperinflation or the dollar being close to toliet paper.

[Azunite]

I know people saying that America is alreay a third world country and the illegals are making it worse,all I had to say is wait til hyperinflation or the dollar being close to toliet paper.

Excuse me? America? Third World Country? Do you have ANY idea what a third world country means?

If it means " A place were a lot of black people live " to you, then you are racist.

[Magus]

If it means " A place were a lot of black people live " to you, then you are racist.

Ahem, he means these people:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7I5usGs9inM/TcrJQkSkQzI/AAAAAAAAD7o/m2qeZ5CUgZw/s1600/a+illegal-aliens.jpg

[Azunite]

Ahem, he means these people:

image (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7I5usGs9inM/TcrJQkSkQzI/AAAAAAAAD7o/m2qeZ5CUgZw/s1600/a+illegal-aliens.jpg)

Hey, that guy is doing that Michale Jackson move!

[Marky]

Wow honestly you have no idea what you are talking about. California is the 8th largest economy in the world! In a way we are our own country! I was talking about the US as a whole but using Cali as an example! as per norm though people like you have to chip in and insult people adding nothing to the discussion! You being from England probably have never been to California or the US for that matter and wouldn't know anything about the subject matter. So do me a favor and but out :)


I am speaking from being in a border/port of entry city and my family being here ooff of imigration


hey hey hey. I am from texas and we were a country of our own back in the day and you cannot say that the U.S is turning into a third wolrd country because we are not. like the other person said you must not know what a third world country is. I see how imigrants come over expecially since i live off the border of Juarez. But here in this Port of entry city we ecept those who come over to do the jobes because for one they work cheaper/ two some people think too big of them selves to do the little jobs. ad I am not saying i hire illegals no because i dont do that. I am saying just how the U.S benifits from outsourcing their productions to China were things are cheaper this is a way of were cheaper comes to us which also benifits them.

And if i start seeing those high up take the little jobs (like those who have payed for degrees but cant find a job that will take it) than i can see that the U.S it taking a step to fill in those jobs.






Ahem, he means these people:

image (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7I5usGs9inM/TcrJQkSkQzI/AAAAAAAAD7o/m2qeZ5CUgZw/s1600/a+illegal-aliens.jpg)


thats just mean.

[Magus]

thats just mean.What is mean? I don't get it. Clarify a bit, please.

And you know, that what people think when they say illegal immigrants. It's not some Chinese people getting in the country via a boat.

It's those south Americans crossing the borders to get in. Those are the illegal immigrants that U.S usually talk about.

Hombre, at least you aren't a victim of hate crimes, like I am(because I am a Paki)

That's even worse than being an illegal immigrant.

[RoseyCadaver]

Ahem, he means these people:

image (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7I5usGs9inM/TcrJQkSkQzI/AAAAAAAAD7o/m2qeZ5CUgZw/s1600/a+illegal-aliens.jpg)
No,my father is half Hispanic[Mexican to be exact],these men look Hispanic.I'm 1/4 Hispanic,and I'm not talking about these people.
I'm a 1/4,I don't judge on someone's skin color.
Excuse me? America? Third World Country? Do you have ANY idea what a third world country means?

If it means " A place were a lot of black people live " to you, then you are racist.

Where in the world did I say " A place were a lot of black people live " ?!?!?You put words in my mouth T_T!

Yes ,I have an idea of a third world country.My friend goes on trips to help out single women in third world countries,I work at a soup kitchen(volunteer)which I know even my ghetto areas aren't as bad as a third world country,I have a small idea.

Last ,but not least,I wasn't saying America was a third world country,but I know people who think it's becoming that way.I don't believe we are becoming one, and I think America is just in a recession.

[iangillan]

If we talking about immigration,America is a third world.Mostly Americans are Immigrants.All white and black people.Only Indians (red people) are Originall Americans.Most American ancestors are from Europe and Africa.

[Magus]

I'm a 1/4,I don't judge on someone's skin color.It was never about someone's skin, it was always about someone's culture.

Mayans and Aztec are of the same race, but they were different cultures all together.

[restricted NA]

deleted

[Azunite]

If we talking about immigration,America is a third world.Mostly Americans are Immigrants.All white and black people.Only Indians (red people) are Originall Americans.Most American ancestors are from Europe and Africa.

For fucks sake people! Third world country doesn't mean a place where African people live! What the fuck!?

[RoseyCadaver]

For fucks sake people! Third world country doesn't mean a place where African people live! What the fuck!?

Lol I can see what you mean.We aren't close to a third world country.I find it irrational how people keep saying this T_T.WHICH I WASN'T XD!I was saying I know people(now one more person ^^)who think we're a third world country.

[iangillan]

For fucks sake people! Third world country doesn't mean a place where African people live! What the fuck!?

Please Read full post.If we talking about Immigration,America and Australia are third world.If we talking about economy then is Africa...

[Continuum]

Please Read full post.If we talking about Immigration,America and Australia are third world.If we talking about economy then is Africa...

No, there aren't any other definitions of the "Worlds", can't we just stick to the original (original, what I meant was today's definition for it; the Cold War is defunct.) definition for it to avoid confusion?

If whatever you're saying is correct, all First World Countries are also Third World. And vice versa. What happened to the Second World? You are complicating things that shouldn't be.

[bdon]

if they dont pay taxes, they dont deserve to live here

[iangillan]

No, there aren't any other definitions of the "Worlds", can't we just stick to the original (original, what I meant was today's definition for it; the Cold War is defunct.) definition for it to avoid confusion?

If whatever you're saying is correct, all First World Countries are also Third World. And vice versa. What happened to the Second World? You are complicating things that shouldn't be.

Sorry If You get Me this way.I don`t try to complicate things.My post is comment on some very fascist sentence in this thread.This thread is about immigration ,not about first,second,third worlds.

[Azunite]

Please Read full post.If we talking about Immigration,America and Australia are third world.If we talking about economy then is Africa...

Do you think there is a third world for eveything?

Third World of Race
Third World of Immıgration
Third World of Military
Third World of Porn İndustry..

You think these exist?

[mrbob360]

i H8 illegal immagrants !!!!!!!!!!!

[Azunite]

i H8 illegal immagrants !!!!!!!!!!!


Exactly! We should have executed all the European pioneers in 1600s when we had the chance!

[Continuum]

Do you think there is a third world for eveything?

Third World of Race
Third World of Immıgration
Third World of Military
Third World of Porn İndustry..

You think these exist?

What I meant was this. There is a standard definition for the Worlds, no more, no less.

And, erm. There's not really any porn industry, either.

[Jawbreaker]

I'm Mexican/ Spanish myself and it still bothers me that illegal immigrants are entering the US. Yes I understand that life in Mexico is very difficult and that life in America seems better. But I believe that once they enter the US they should at least strive to become a citizen. My family originally came from Mexico, they all worked very hard to get their citizenship so why can't other get it. I do overall believe that anyone should be able to become a citizen in another place they want to live, heck I want to become an Italian citizen but I'm going to do it the right way.Just like immigrants coming to US should become citizens the right way.

Er...the only path to legalization right now is through marrying a citizen. Or an amnesty from the government, but given current feelings towards immigrants, that isn't the case at all. There just isn't a way for people who come here to do honest work to become legalized.

[joeyjorulz]

No in fact, I haven't been to America. You know why? Because of your fucking paranoid immigration system. I was denied a visa to go on a ski trip because I am Pakistani. A school ski trip. I had every document required, there was nothing wrong, but hey you know, in a country that's built a metaphorical thick concrete wall around itself in terms of immigration, it ain't enough! You gotta crack down on it!

But I stick to my words. You haven't a clue about the conditions of a third-world country if you persist in comparing California to one.

Embers...I see what your saying about 3rd world countries.

To deny you a visa for a school visit was perhaps not a correct decision but you have to admit that Pakistan is not really an ideal place to live. I say that meaning the political instability and it is seen as supporting Al Queda.

My country was built on immigration and we reserve the right to exclude anyone we choose. If that is Checnian, Afgani, Pakistani etc then so be it.

I hope you can visit us in the future.

[joeyjorulz]

Third world countries= GOOGLE

Categories and notes:

1. Third World Countries in terms of political rights and civil liberties.
The most repressive regimes in the world.
List of countries with the worst records for political rights and civil liberties. Within these countries and territories, state control over daily life is pervasive and wide-ranging, independent organizations and political opposition are banned or suppressed, and fear of retribution for independent thought and action is part of daily life.
According to the Freedom House report Freedom in the World 2007, there are eight countries judged to have the worst records:

Burma (Myanmar), Cuba, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, and
Uzbekistan.
Also included are two territories, Chechnya (Russia) and Tibet, whose
inhabitants suffer intense repression. These states and regions received the
Freedom House survey’s lowest rating: 7 for political rights and 7 for civil
liberties.

The report also includes nine further countries near the bottom of Freedom
House's list of the most repressive:
Belarus, China, Cote d’Ivoire, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Laos, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Zimbabwe. The territory of Western Sahara (most of the territory is controlled by Morocco) is also included in this group.
While these states scored slightly better than the “worst of the worst,” they offer very limited scope for private discussion while severely suppressing opposition political activity, impeding independent organizing, and censoring or punishing criticism of the state.

(Source: Freedom House Freedom in the World 2007)

2. Third World Countries in Terms of their Gross National Income (GNI)
Countries with the least gross national income based on purchasing-power-parity (PPP) per capita in int'l Dollars.
Simplified the GNI PPP is the average annual income earned by a citizen of a country.
That means for example, a citizen of Malawi can spend $ 1.6 a day to make a living,
a citizen of Eritrea $ 2.5, the average US citizen spends $ 114 daily.

List shows mostly African plus Afghanistan (all under $1000 per year)

[RoseyCadaver]

Exactly! We should have executed all the European pioneers in 1600s when we had the chance!

So if you're native American,you don't count xD?I'm Cherokee and Apache :D.


People need to get off their high horse and realize it isn't very easy moving over here ,and that if you were born here,and a citizen,in my view,you're rather lucky.

[embers]

To deny you a visa for a school visit was perhaps not a correct decision but you have to admit that Pakistan is not really an ideal place to live. I say that meaning the political instability and it is seen as supporting Al Queda.

1. The military probably supports the Taliban because of their agenda in Afghanistan. But to be honest, they're a bunch of fucktards, and I'm not surprised they were hiding bin Laden.
2. Yes, Pakistan is politically unstable. So let's not allow a fucking fourteen year old in because of it. That is so perfectly reasonable.

My country was built on immigration and we reserve the right to exclude anyone we choose. If that is Checnian, Afgani, Pakistani etc then so be it.

Right well, I respect that you reserve the right to exclude anyone you choose, however, you'd better have a fucking good reason or I might just walk into the American embassy and shit on a desk.

[Bimmerhead]

Leave it man. I have more information about America than this guy. This was the guy who thought Bin Laden was the Main Guy of Iraq.




California is the 8th largest economy in the world? They should just destroy all marijuana in the world man, obviously you had too many already. So you see, we have something called G-8. Here we have the best economies in the world. So there is America, France, Germany, etc... Oh wait! No good ole' Cali! Because it isn't a fucking country! It is a state made of few cities, including the famous Hollywood, the Poker Town and a long red Bridge! How come it is a world superpower, with the world's greatest 8th economy. Cali is the HQ of American porn industry, but that doesn't mean they have the best economy...

By the way, do you go to school? Or are you home educated?

Nothing further, Your Honor. I back off now.

I said Bin Laden was the main guy of Iraq lol? Ok buddy now whose smoking dope! lol :D California as a state has the 8th largest economy in the world. Look it up dude! Do a google search! Or you know what I will just do it for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California
You have no idea what you are talking about but im sure you will come back with another smart comment on why im wrong and all of the factual information is wrong too. Here is some more sources.
http://www.netstate.com/economy/ca_economy.htm
For those of you who didn't do your homework on the subject let me help.
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/environment/third-world-growth-california-style.html
This is what I meant when I said "Third World Country". Its a common term to us NATIVE Californians. Please people do your homework about the topic at hand before posting your stupid replies IE Prince of Madness.

[Continuum]

I said Bin Laden was the main guy of Iraq lol? Ok buddy now whose smoking dope! lol :D California as a state has the 8th largest economy in the world.


LIKE I SAID. Size does NOT Matter. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic) Having a Good economy does not make you a Sovereign entity.


This is what I meant when I said "Third World Country". Its a common term to us NATIVE Californians.

You don't say, you smelly white kids aren't even native to America.

[Bimmerhead]

LIKE I SAID. Size does NOT Matter. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic) Having a Good economy does not make you a Sovereign entity.



You don't say, you smelly white kids aren't even native to America.

Yeah and neither is 99 percent of everyone else who lives in America! Your focusing on trivial facts.
Im pretty sure the "smelly" stereotype gets awarded to the Hispanics buzz saw! But thats if we are being raciest which we aren't.

[Bimmerhead]

1. The military probably supports the Taliban because of their agenda in Afghanistan. But to be honest, they're a bunch of fucktards, and I'm not surprised they were hiding bin Laden.
2. Yes, Pakistan is politically unstable. So let's not allow a fucking fourteen year old in because of it. That is so perfectly reasonable.



Right well, I respect that you reserve the right to exclude anyone you choose, however, you'd better have a fucking good reason or I might just walk into the American embassy and shit on a desk.

So now you are debating whether we should let a 14 year old into our country for a "ski trip" when the country he is from is politically unstable?? So this child's ski trip is more important then my nations national security?? Children younger then him commit atrocities in the name of "faith" all the time. Pakistan is a Muslim nation and if you haven't noticed Muslim extremists have waged war on the western worlds very way of life. So if you ask me I think being overly careful to ensure the safety of our citizens is perfectly ok.

[RoseyCadaver]

So this child's ski trip is more important then my nations national security?? Children younger then him commit atrocities in the name of "faith" all the time. Pakistan is a Muslim nation and if you haven't noticed Muslim extremists have waged war on the western worlds very way of life.

Says the biased main stream media you listen to.

News watchin' people never give in to thought that maybe some of this stuff is made up.They're horrible things going on over there,but war has always been like that.

In my EYES,they only attacked us because like the imperialist America seems to be,we were over there "spreading " democracy first,when really ,we only gave a flying fuck about there oil,and would not leave them alone.No ,I don't agree with the way the responded(9/11),but we should have took the warning.

But to say that it's "most of the kids are like" and the kids ski trip is threatening my national security" is just plain silly,sorry.

[Bimmerhead]

Says the biased main stream media you listen to.

News watchin' people never give in to thought that maybe some of this stuff is made up.They're horrible things going on over there,but war has always been like that.

In my EYES,they only attacked us because like the imperialist America seems to be,we were over there "spreading " democracy first,when really ,we only gave a flying fuck about there oil,and would not leave them alone.No ,I don't agree with the way the responded(9/11),but we should have took the warning.

But to say that it's "most of the kids are like" and the kids ski trip is threatening my national security" is just plain silly,sorry.

I never said "MOST". I said its a possibility. This isn't just the main stream media this is how this country operates and thinks. If a 14 year old from Pakistan has to miss a ski trip just so we as a country could potentially avoid a dangerous threat then so be it. Who knows this kid could have been completely brain washed by some Muslim extremest from him own country. Now hes in our country and he blows himself up in a crowded mall! What if a family member of yours died in such an attack? But he was only here for a ski trip we thought! Would that make things better in your eyes? Ask the families of the victims of 9/11 how they would feel if we were letting ANYBODY in from a country who was just caught harboring the man who killed there son,father,wife,mother! The honest truth is that its a 1 in 500 chance this kid is a real threat. But there is still that one chance... Plus its a political shit storm between our two countries right now so no one is coming in!

[Magus]

So if you ask me I think being overly careful to ensure the safety of our citizens is perfectly ok.
You know how ignorant and stupid that was? So, Faris is not allowed to enter America because he is a potentially a fucking terrorist, right? Is that what you are saying?

Me, Faris, not Allowed in the land of dreams? This must be a joke, right? Really. Me, Faris. The one who fancies himself as the world's next visionary - not allowed in Amerikha? The secular ant-theist atheist is not allowed?

Man. I laughed. Really Laughed. Like someone is tickling me.

http://tx.english-ch.com/teacher/jocelyn/bean_laughing_hb.gif

[RoseyCadaver]

You know how ignorant and stupid that was? So, Faris is not allowed to enter America because he is a potentially a fucking terrorist, right? Is that what you are saying?


Man. I laughed. Really Laughed. Like someone is tickling me.

image (http://tx.english-ch.com/teacher/jocelyn/bean_laughing_hb.gif)

Sadly ,a lot of us,even ones who aren't like that (me) still get the good ol' American stigma :(.I am proud to be an American,not so proud of some of my fellow citizens .

[Continuum]

I never said "MOST". I said its a possibility. This isn't just the main stream media this is how this country operates and thinks. If a 14 year old from Pakistan has to miss a ski trip just so we as a country could potentially avoid a dangerous threat then so be it. Who knows this kid could have been completely brain washed by some Muslim extremest from him own country. Now hes in our country and he blows himself up in a crowded mall! What if a family member of yours died in such an attack? But he was only here for a ski trip we thought! Would that make things better in your eyes? Ask the families of the victims of 9/11 how they would feel if we were letting ANYBODY in from a country who was just caught harboring the man who killed there son,father,wife,mother! The honest truth is that its a 1 in 500 chance this kid is a real threat. But there is still that one chance... Plus its a political shit storm between our two countries right now so no one is coming in!

American Jingo at its finest.

Yeah and neither is 99 percent of everyone else who lives in America! Your focusing on trivial facts.
Im pretty sure the "smelly" stereotype gets awarded to the Hispanics buzz saw! But thats if we are being raciest which we aren't.

I meant you. All your arguments reek of Bias and Xenophobia. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Bimmerhead]

American Jingo at its finest.



I meant you. All your arguments reek of Bias and Xenophobia. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Well obviously you arent an american so I wouldn't expect you to understand. As per norm you have no arguments. Just smarmy little comments and insults. you should read up on the problems this country is having before sticking your nose where it belongs.

[Magus]

Well obviously you arent an american so I wouldn't expect you to understand. As per norm you have no arguments. Just smarmy little comments and insults. you should read up on the problems this country is having before sticking your nose where it belongs.
http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1487&pictureid=18393

Okay, all non "American" VTers leave this thread, it's probably better if we do so.

Leave the Americans and their problems alone.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-2/US-soldiers-in-iraq-3.jpg

Wait, what?

[RoseyCadaver]

Leave the Americans and their problems alone.

image (http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-2/US-soldiers-in-iraq-3.jpg)

Wait, what?
That is what I was saying above!Our imperialist arses :mad:.I really hope Ron Paul comes into power,he is like the only guy who didn't support the "Iraq" "WAR" or the fuckin' mess we're getting in with Libya.


It's sad that the American stereotype is a xenophobe :(.I'm not like most Americans,I think.lol.

[Bimmerhead]

image (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1487&pictureid=18393)

Okay, all non "American" VTers leave this thread, it's probably better if we do so.

Leave the Americans and their problems alone.

image (http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-2/US-soldiers-in-iraq-3.jpg)

Wait, what?

Well you said it. Our internal affairs is just that. OURS! I wouldn't expect the Europeans so understand. If I am the typical "imperialist" American then so be it. Trust me im as much against the war or foreign affairs for that matter as you guys are. If I had it my way we wouldn't help anyone. I would let the middle east tear each other to ribbons. Hell we don't live there and its not like they want us there. Plus Isrial can handle themselves. They would single handedly slaughter any middle eastern country that makes aggressive acts towards them anyway. The only reason they haven't is because WE metaled into there business. Its not our responsibility to prevent them from killing each other.

[Magus]

Well you said it. Our internal affairs is just that. OURS!True


I wouldn't expect the Europeans so understand.
Right back at you.


If I am the typical "imperialist" American then so be it.
I hate imperialists. They smell like rotten fish


Trust me im as much against the war or foreign affairs for that matter as you guys are.Some people like the idea.


If I had it my way we wouldn't help anyone.Then shame on you.


I would let the middle east tear each other to ribbons.
Justified. If it weren't the Americans, Iraq wouldn't be the same when it faced off Iran. Same can be said to Afghanistan and USSR.

But I think the interference in Kuwait-Iraq war was a good choice IMO. I mean, who is providing America with crude petroleum? Canada?


Hell we don't live there and its not like they want us there.
How do you know that? There are a lot of foreigners here, mostly American Expats(aka white folks). Plus Middle-Easterns are friendly as the next guy, but there are some who takes it to the extreme. :yes:


Plus Isrial can handle themselves. They would single handedly slaughter any middle eastern country that makes aggressive acts towards them anyway.Says the guy whose country provided Israel with cutting edge weaponries(Fucking F-22 against MiG-21? Sounds funny) and intelligence technology.


The only reason they haven't is because WE metaled into there business. Its not our responsibility to prevent them from killing each other.Oh, I think that's what the United Nations is for, to prevent countries killing each other.

[RoseyCadaver]

I hate imperialists. They smell like rotten fish



If you're a citizen of the country and try to prevent the imperialism,does that make you bad like them?

[Bimmerhead]

True


Right back at you.


I hate imperialists. They smell like rotten fish

Some people like the idea.

Then shame on you.


Justified. If it weren't the Americans, Iraq wouldn't be the same when it faced off Iran. Same can be said to Afghanistan and USSR.

But I think the interference in Kuwait-Iraq war was a good choice IMO. I mean, who is providing America with crude petroleum? Canada?


How do you know that? There are a lot of foreigners here, mostly American Expats(aka white folks). Plus Middle-Easterns are friendly as the next guy, but there are some who takes it to the extreme. :yes:

Says the guy whose country provided Israel with cutting edge weaponries(Fucking F-22 against MiG-21? Sounds funny) and intelligence technology.

Oh, I think that's what the United Nations is for, to prevent countries killing each other.


Damned if we do Damned if we don't! No matter what someone is going to bitch at us because we either mettle into everyone business and go into countries that we shouldn't be in (IE Vietnam,Samalia,Iraq,Afganistan), OR we dont do a damn thing and we are the superpower that sits on our golden thrones while everyone suffers due to genocide, starvation and other horrible atrocities. Look at the Somalian conflict, we went in to provide aid to the citizens of this country under a horrible war lord. What did we get in return? A bunch of our helicopters shot down and a bunch of bad PR from the rest of the world IE Europe! Yes we are in Iraq for the wrong reasons but in the end everyone benefits. Many years from now when the job is done Iraq may be a prosperous country. Was it worth it IMO? NO! But we are there so might as well finish it. As for Israel, we arm them because everywhere they turn they have enemies who would do anything to wipe them from the face of the earth! If it were up to Israel they would live peacefully on the land WE provided them after WWII and that would be that. But that isnt the case. Palestine argues that it was their land and it may have been. BUT what were we to do? 6 million Jews were killed in WWII and had no where to go. Were we bad for mettling then? Thats up to you? Now that we have should we just abandon them to be eaten alive? NO! We should give them weapons so that they may DEFEND themselves. Sorry for the rant you guys but for everything the US does wrong we do a lot right too!

[Magus]

Damned if we do Damned if we don't! No matter what someone is going to bitch at us because we either mettle into everyone business and go into countries that we shouldn't be in (IE Vietnam,Samalia,Iraq,Afganistan), OR we dont do a damn thing and we are the superpower that sits on our golden thrones while everyone suffers due to genocide, starvation and other horrible atrocities.Whatever that means, hombre.

Look at the Somalian conflict, we went in to provide aid to the citizens of this country under a horrible war lord. What did we get in return? A bunch of our helicopters shot down and a bunch of bad PR from the rest of the world IE Europe!America wasn't the only country that tried to aid, and Somalia isn't the only country that suffered. A lot of African nation are under rebellious military regimes and in them are different factions that are fighting each another.

It's the U.N that's providing the aid, I believe. And still does. Instead of using diplomatic methods, but America didn't cowered up and ran from Somalia, it's the whole U.N that came with that resolution.


Yes we are in Iraq for the wrong reasons but in the end everyone benefits. Many years from now when the job is done Iraq may be a prosperous country. Was it worth it IMO? NO! But we are there so might as well finish it.Iraq has one of the biggest oil reserve. Once Iraq is settled, people will come and go. There will be open businesses and free market. And Iraqi Dinar will have an increased value. I believe this is to benefit everyone.


As for Israel, we arm them because everywhere they turn they have enemies who would do anything to wipe them from the face of the earth! If it were up to Israel they would live peacefully on the land WE provided them after WWII and that would be that. Jews aren't the only "ethnicity" that become instinct and no where to go. Oh, I believe they had the whole of Europe and America to settle down, but no. Let's fucking steal a land of Semites and give it to them and armed them with the best weapons, because they are fucking Jews. Nice job America. Very brilliant.


But that isnt the case. Palestine argues that it was their land and it may have been. BUT what were we to do? 6 million Jews were killed in WWII and had no where to go.Wait? 6 Million Jews were killed? I think it's called the graves, that's where they go. As for survives, they could have stayed where they were before.


Were we bad for mettling then? Thats up to you?We? You didn't even exist until after Gulf War.


Now that we have should we just abandon them to be eaten alive? NO!Who eaten them alive? The Nazis? I thought the Nazi was destroyed. Let them go back to where they were. But oho, they decided to steal Palestine and give them to Jews. That's the best thing we could do to them, right?


We should give them weapons so that they may DEFEND themselves.You didn't give weapons to Palestine to "DEFEND" themselves. How do you call that fair? Eh?

If you're a citizen of the country and try to prevent the imperialism,does that make you bad like them?I am bad as them, but then I am also perceived as the good guy, because it is me who is voting for an egalitarian society.

[Bimmerhead]

Whatever that means, hombre.
America wasn't the only country that tried to aid, and Somalia isn't the only country that suffered. A lot of African nation are under rebellious military regimes and in them are different factions that are fighting each another.

It's the U.N that's providing the aid, I believe. And still does. Instead of using diplomatic methods, but America didn't cowered up and ran from Somalia, it's the whole U.N that came with that resolution.

Iraq has one of the biggest oil reserve. Once Iraq is settled, people will come and go. There will be open businesses and free market. And Iraqi Dinar will have an increased value. I believe this is to benefit everyone.

Jews aren't the only "ethnicity" that become instinct and no where to go. Oh, I believe they had the whole of Europe and America to settle down, but no. Let's fucking steal a land of Semites and give it to them and armed them with the best weapons, because they are fucking Jews. Nice job America. Very brilliant.

Wait? 6 Million Jews were killed? I think it's called the graves, that's where they go. As for survives, they could have stayed where they were before.

We? You didn't even exist until after Gulf War.

Who eaten them alive? The Nazis? I thought the Nazi was destroyed. Let them go back to where they were. But oho, they decided to steal Palestine and give them to Jews. That's the best thing we could do to them, right?

You didn't give weapons to Palestine to "DEFEND" themselves. How do you call that fair? Eh?

I am bad as them, but then I am also perceived as the good guy, because it is me who is voting for an egalitarian society.

Lets be fair here. 90% of the UNs military power is the United States so if we aren't on board neither are they. You caught me on a typo with the 6 million jews. I meant the survivors. They could not go back to their old homes because they were either destroyed or they weren't theirs anymore. The Jewish people were removed from their land thousands of years ago and it was only until after WWII where they able to reclaim what was originally theirs once more. After losing 6 million people dont you think they deserved a piece of land less then half the size of New Jersey? The Israelis are a live and let live nation they would NEVER attack Palestine unless they were threatened by Palestine in some way which they are ALL the time. Palestine cant get over the fact that they have a small piece of land that they can call home, land once originally theirs long ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence
Now read this and tell me the Palestinians need f18s, and EF2000 war planes! By the way just a small correction to an earlier post, the United States has NEVER sold an F22 Rapter to any country. Not only would the Palestiniens finish where the Nazis left off but so would the Iranians the lybians and just about EVERY other predominately Muslim country in the middle east. The only reason why they haven't is because their war planes resemble Da vinci's first flying machine! All you are doing right now is proving my point in the first place. The United States helped people in need (the jews) and all we do is get flak for that! So going back to my original comment, If it were up to me I wouldn't help a single god damn country because there will always be neighsayers saying "oh well what about his group of people I would have done it differently!" Poor Muslims they are forced to share a small plot of land boo hoo! Lets think of the world without the US helping it out right now. Would it really be a better place? We arent perfect but we are sure closer then any other country in the world!

[Magus]

Lets be fair here. 90% of the UNs military power is the United States so if we aren't on board neither are they.
A link to that claim is appreciated.
You caught me on a typo with the 6 million jews. I meant the survivors. They could not go back to their old homes because they were either destroyed or they weren't theirs anymore.So was London and Berlin - they were all destroyed. But the English didn't migrate to India, and called it their home, because their city was "destroyed".

I believe everyone had the right to take what was their. What right they had to take what was not theirs i.e Palestine?

The Jewish people were removed from their land thousands of years ago and it was only until after WWII where they able to reclaim what was originally theirs once more.1000 years ago is fucking history. Do, us Baloch claim Sindh as ours because it was indeed ours 1000 years ago? No - it's fucking absurd as fuck.

Plus, Jewish people... I don't consider Judaism an ethnicity, I will never acknowledge that.

1000 years ago - then, Arabs were also Jews. Arabs were also Christians. Jews were Arabs. Arabs are Semite. Jews are Semites. They are not some different race, they are one and the same. Get that in your head.

After losing 6 million people dont you think they deserved a piece of land less then half the size of New Jersey?Nope, they don't deserve it. It was stolen.

The Israelis are a live and let live nation they would NEVER attack Palestine unless they were threatened by Palestine in some way which they are ALL the time.Oh really? This is a joke, this must be a freaking joke!

You want me to show small Palestinian children charred bodies? No, they are real and authenticated.

Palestine cant get over the fact that they have a small piece of land that they can call home, land once originally theirs long agoIt was their home long time ago, and still was, up until some people said, "let's give them this fucking desert we stole from Palestine".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violenceNow read this and tell me the Palestinians need f18s, and EF2000 war planes! By the way just a small correction to an earlier post, the United States has NEVER sold an F22 Rapter to any country.Wikipedia is the worst place for political resources. It is always biased.

No, they don't need. They don't even have an Army. Hammas and Fatah are terrorist factions to both Israel and Palestine, just like Balochi Liberation Army and Balochi Freedom Front are a terrorist factions to us(Baloch) and to Pakistan as well as Iran.

Israel is waiting to buy fighter planes. Israel has the best air superiority for a reason - America.

Let's take a recap back in the 1970's. How many Arab planes brought down, and how many Israeli plane shot down?

You know the 'why', you even said it yourself
The only reason why they haven't is because their war planes resemble Da vinci's first flying machine!
Israel had the state of the art, cutting edge fighter planes from France and America, while Arabs had Post-World War II Russian fighter crafts.

Not only that, they had the best training by America.

Not only would the Palestiniens finish where the Nazis left off but so would the Iranians the lybians and just about EVERY other predominately Muslim country in the middle east.
Because they know Israel is a stolen Palestine. They want to fight tyranny, and according to them, Israel and America is tyranny.

All you are doing right now is proving my point in the first place. The United States helped people in need (the jews) and all we do is get flak for that!Yep.


So going back to my original comment, If it were up to me I wouldn't help a single god damn country because there will always be neighsayers saying "oh well what about his group of people I would have done it differently!" Boy, am I so glad that's not in your dirty hands. You would have destroyed America the next morning.


Poor Muslims they are forced to share a small plot of land boo hoo! Lets think of the world without the US helping it out right now. Would it really be a better place? We arent perfect but we are sure closer then any other country in the world!Muslims?

Arabs, the semites and the whole Middle-East aren't just Muslims. They are also Christians, Jews, Pagans, Zoroastrians and Irreligious. They are shouting with extreme anger for a reason. Just because America is a "super-power" that doesn't mean it can do anything, especially driving people out from their home and put some strangers in those lands.

And, you call that sharing? Instead of giving Palestinian the rights to do whatever they want in their lands, they are forced out. How is that sharing?

Yes, I got the meaning of "sharing" differently.

Oh, that's a nice sharing plan, evacuate the area in 1 minute.
tVFzTCKSerI
Pebbles are F-18s, sure.

Instead of bringing some social worker, they bring in Mossad's Elite, how nice.

Yes, sure. But you forget that America is a cultural melt-point. It's a shame that some Americans are Zionists. And people like Norman G. Finkelstein(Anti-Zionist Jew) are rare.

I can make a new thread if you want, and keep this thread for illegal immigrants.

[Genghis Khan]

I meant the survivors. They could not go back to their old homes because they were either destroyed or they weren't theirs anymore.

Then Europe could've fucking built more.

The Jewish people were removed from their land thousands of years ago and it was only until after WWII where they able to reclaim what was originally theirs once more. After losing 6 million people dont you think they deserved a piece of land less then half the size of New Jersey?

Of course they do. But I don't agree that anyone, EVEN they have the right to go to a land which is occupied by a certain race of people who have been living there for thousands of years and tell them to fuck right off because it's written in their good ol' holy book that Moses promised them that land. Fuck. If the Europeans really wanted to do them a favour for what had happened couldn't they have just given them some of Europe's land to make their own state? Why do the Palestinians have to suffer because of their Prophet's promise and that unfortunate event?

The Israelis are a live and let live nation they would NEVER attack Palestine unless they were threatened by Palestine in some way which they are ALL the time. Palestine cant get over the fact that they have a small piece of land that they can call home, land once originally theirs long ago.

1. The Israeli government is destroying more and more Palestinian homes every day.

2. No. Zionists can't get over the fact that their book promised them a piece of land

3 THOUSAND YEARS AGO


Not only would the Palestiniens finish where the Nazis left off but so would the Iranians the lybians and just about EVERY other predominately Muslim country in the middle east. The only reason why they haven't is because their war planes resemble Da vinci's first flying machine!

http://www.platformnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/facepalm.jpeg

All you are doing right now is proving my point in the first place. The United States helped people in need (the jews) and all we do is get flak for that!

You know why? Because by 'helping' them you took the Muslim-West conflict to a whole other level.

So going back to my original comment, If it were up to me I wouldn't help a single god damn country because there will always be neighsayers saying "oh well what about his group of people I would have done it differently!"

Thank fuck they picked George Bush and not you.

Poor Muslims they are forced to share a small plot of land boo hoo!

Boo hoo indeed. On a side note, why don't me and Faris start an actual holy war bring all the billions of Muslims together to nuke the U.S., invade it, take over and call it Amrikistan and use the excuse 'Well, we only did it because you bombed Iraq and helped the Zionists create Palestine, plus it says right here in our Qur'an that America is the promised land for Muslims'. Give me a god damn break.

[Continuum]

http://irancartoon.com/120/holocaust/005dost-mohammadi10.jpg

Oh, Boo Hoo. Why can't people try to stop giving Jews a reason to commit violent atrocities on people who should be free? I know, they have been a victim of mass murder, it's horrid. But there are newer oppressions being done, particularly by them. Living in a walled state built by the people who stole your land, tear-gassed your family and destroyed your livelihood is oppression enough for me, why can't it apply to you, Bimmerhead?

[embers]

So now you are debating whether we should let a 14 year old into our country for a "ski trip" when the country he is from is politically unstable??

Yes, I am. Any reason against it is bullshit. And if you hadn't noticed, I was in England. Why would I travel from Pakistan to England, live there for two and a half years (which the immigration officer would have been informed of), and then fortunately happen to join a school that is hosting a ski trip to America just so I can plan an attack against them? Surely, just surely, it would be all the more sensible just to let one off in England?

Do they even expect a 14 year old to be that religiously motivated?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/041/763/roflbot-ZfY6.jpg?1267465010

So this child's ski trip is more important then my nations national security??

Where the fuck do your country's priorities lie in protecting its own national security? With a 14 year old on a ski trip or with people who actually pose an ounce of threat?

Children younger then him commit atrocities in the name of "faith" all the time.

Did you know that most of the time the situation is that the child is forced into acts of extremism, either via threats to their family or threats of torture to the child themselves? That this isn't even half possible in a country like England?

Pakistan is a Muslim nation and if you haven't noticed Muslim extremists have waged war on the western worlds very way of life. So if you ask me I think being overly careful to ensure the safety of our citizens is perfectly ok.

>Pakistan is majority Muslim
>Muslim extremists exist
>Deny Muslims access

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/089/123/disappoint-2.jpg?1292892501

Let's apply this logic in more situations!

>America is majority Christian (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports)
>Christian extremists exist (http://dcist.com/images/kkk.jpg)
>Deny all Christians access

Makes perfect sense?

I never said "MOST". I said its a possibility.

And you need to assess whether such possibilities are probable in the case of a 14 year old immigrant living in England. You clearly aren't.

If a 14 year old from Pakistan has to miss a ski trip just so we as a country could potentially avoid a dangerous threat then so be it.

>yfw you get denied a ski trip to the alps on the grounds that you may be a Christian extremist and will try to harm the natives.

Who knows this kid could have been completely brain washed by some Muslim extremest from him own country. Now hes in our country and he blows himself up in a crowded mall!

Do you have any idea of the rigorous immigration process we have to face when we apply for a tourist (or any other kind of) visa to America? Not only would I have to face the immense scrutiny of an American officer looking through my visa application, but I would also have to go to several interviews where I would be assessed in person. Judging from those it would become apparent that I pose no threat to Americans.

Ask the families of the victims of 9/11 how they would feel if we were letting ANYBODY in from a country who was just caught harboring the man who killed there son,father,wife,mother!

9/11 was an attack which was planned vigorously and involved several adult men who were not only capable of piloting aircraft, but also had the skills to hijack such aircraft in the first place. Comparing 9/11 to my situation is fucking stupid.

The honest truth is that its a 1 in 500 chance this kid is a real threat.

I pull three out of seven statistics out of my ass, too.



But there is still that one chance... Plus its a political shit storm between our two countries right now so no one is coming in!

It's funny because politically our country is one of the many that wipes America's ass clean. No, there isn't much shitstorm between us yet.

Well obviously you arent an american so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

It's funny because you don't understand either.

you should read up on the problems this country is having before sticking your nose where it belongs.

As should you (http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/).

[Bimmerhead]

Yes, I am. Any reason against it is bullshit. And if you hadn't noticed, I was in England. Why would I travel from Pakistan to England, live there for two and a half years (which the immigration officer would have been informed of), and then fortunately happen to join a school that is hosting a ski trip to America just so I can plan an attack against them? Surely, just surely, it would be all the more sensible just to let one off in England?

Do they even expect a 14 year old to be that religiously motivated?

image (http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/041/763/roflbot-ZfY6.jpg?1267465010)



Where the fuck do your country's priorities lie in protecting its own national security? With a 14 year old on a ski trip or with people who actually pose an ounce of threat?



Did you know that most of the time the situation is that the child is forced into acts of extremism, either via threats to their family or threats of torture to the child themselves? That this isn't even half possible in a country like England?



>Pakistan is majority Muslim
>Muslim extremists exist
>Deny Muslims access

image (http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/089/123/disappoint-2.jpg?1292892501)

Let's apply this logic in more situations!

>America is majority Christian (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports)
>Christian extremists exist (http://dcist.com/images/kkk.jpg)
>Deny all Christians access

Makes perfect sense?



And you need to assess whether such possibilities are probable in the case of a 14 year old immigrant living in England. You clearly aren't.



>yfw you get denied a ski trip to the alps on the grounds that you may be a Christian extremist and will try to harm the natives.



Do you have any idea of the rigorous immigration process we have to face when we apply for a tourist (or any other kind of) visa to America? Not only would I have to face the immense scrutiny of an American officer looking through my visa application, but I would also have to go to several interviews where I would be assessed in person. Judging from those it would become apparent that I pose no threat to Americans.



9/11 was an attack which was planned vigorously and involved several adult men who were not only capable of piloting aircraft, but also had the skills to hijack such aircraft in the first place. Comparing 9/11 to my situation is fucking stupid.









It's funny because politically our country is one of the many that wipes America's ass clean. No, there isn't much shitstorm between us yet.



It's funny because you don't understand either.



As should you (http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/).

You are correct there are christian extremists. But they aren't going to YOUR country and flying planes into your military and financial hubs killing thousands of people and devastating your economy for years (as if there was one). That really hit home for every single american citizen so yes we are a little more then careful with 3rd world predominantly Muslim countries. When people from Libya Pakistan Palestine etc want to come here for a ski vacation we are less then inclined to just willy nilly let them in. Yes if you were from somewhere else it probably wouldn't be this bad but after 9/11 that's how we are now. It sucks but hey you can just go to England or Canada because you don't even like the US anyway. Theres great skiing in Canada :)

[RoseyCadaver]

You are correct there are christian extremists. But they aren't going to YOUR country and flying planes into your military and financial hubs killing thousands of people and devastating your economy for years (as if there was one). That really hit home for every single american citizen so yes we are a little more then careful with 3rd world predominantly Muslim countries. When people from Libya Pakistan Palestine etc want to come here for a ski vacation we are less then inclined to just willy nilly let them in. Yes if you were from somewhere else it probably wouldn't be this bad but after 9/11 that's how we are now. It sucks but hey you can just go to England or Canada because you don't even like the US anyway. Theres great skiing in Canada :)
My friend I thought there was hope ......THEY ONLY Attacked US BECAUSE WE WERE SET UP IN THERE PLACE FIRST!Sure we may not done anything to horrid,but they sent us threat after threat,and we ignored it!

Are you serious about letting people from countries in?!?!?You think terrorist are only in the Middle East?Have you checked out Ireland,or better yet ,America!

I'm pretty sure they didn't hit the people with eight zero signs behind their one pay check!America is becoming way too Xenophobic about the middle east and it's all the God damn MSM(Main Stream Medias) mother fucking fault!Think on your own.
People act like we should fear every Muslim!

Oh and they don't hate the US,just some it's people .

[iangillan]

What are you talking Bimmerhead. Do you talking about Christians or Americans.
You know that all genocides in the world are commited by Christians,including last in Bosnia.Do you know that in NYC is killed cca 8.000 people,and in Afghanistan cca 50.000 womans and childrens.
Watch your words, Not all Americans are Christians,and Not All Christians are Americans.
With your last post you are on a good way to be a fascist.

[Magus]

You are correct there are christian extremists. But they aren't going to YOUR country and flying planes into your military and financial hubs killing thousands of people and devastating your economy for years (as if there was one).There is a reason they are called TERRORIST and NOT EXTREMIST!!!11111!! AD NAUSEUM AD INFINITUM


That really hit home for every single american citizen so yes we are a little more then careful with 3rd world predominantly Muslim countries.
First of all, Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam -- Islam is just a facade and an excuse for those people to attack America.

Oh, no. They had strong excuses to attack America, America attacked Sudan for no fucking reason.

You obviously hate Muslims and Middle-East. Okay, boys, Challlo Challlo my Pakistani Bais, let's invade Amerika...istan! Pande Suda Punjabi

Yal 3Arab! Yallah Yallah Ya Shabab 3ala Amreeka!! Hojooom!

When people from Libya Pakistan Palestine etc want to come here for a ski vacation we are less then inclined to just willy nilly let them in. Yes if you were from somewhere else it probably wouldn't be this bad but after 9/11 that's how we are now.Indeed, true to that. Every Muslim or Middl-Easterners are potentially terrorist who will try to blow your shit up. I agree, with no doubt.

It sucks but hey you can just go to England or Canada because you don't even like the US anyway. Theres great skiing in Canada :)I love the Desert -- I want to see the Native Americans. I want to see grandcanyon. I want give Hollywood a visit. I want to see Sears Tower(because the twin towers were destroyed, ironically); maybe the Chicago art fairs. Maybe visit New York and check all those skyscrappers. Maybe have a visit in Philly and give my favourite band a listen in a concert.

Maybe I want to continue my study in a college. Maybe I got a decent job. Maybe I found a girl, and we are ready to establish a family/or maybe I want to become a pornstar.

Maybe in few years, pass some interview, do the exam, and here - I am a full American citizen, rather than an immigrant resident. My English is fine, I even have a Californian accent!

What you gonna do about it?

[embers]

You are correct there are christian extremists. But they aren't going to YOUR country and flying planes into your military and financial hubs killing thousands of people and devastating your economy for years (as if there was one).

Hmm. No, there aren't. But guess who are destroying shit? That's right! YOUR military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan)! Also, stop bringing 9/11 into this. There were no Pakistani hijackers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks).

Also, don't take a swipe at my country's economy. Since you keep on pleading us to research your country before we try and debate you on it (as ironic as it is), how about you do the same.

When people from Libya Pakistan Palestine etc want to come here for a ski vacation we are less then inclined to just willy nilly let them in.

Who said willy nilly let me in? Assess me all they want, at least let them make the right fucking decision. Speaking of which: my grandmother is allowed to visit the US. Not only is she actively religious (which I am not), she is also old enough to be politically motivated, not to mention old enough to have been alive before Pakistan's independence in 1947. She would have had more reasons to attack America than I can ever have, not to mention a higher chance of having access to the right resources. I am not saying she shouldn't be let in, just that your immigration policies are shite.

It sucks but hey you can just go to England or Canada because you don't even like the US anyway. Theres great skiing in Canada :)

Stop making assumptions. I do not hate the US, and the ski trip was a school organised one. They wouldn't change it to Canada just for me, don't be silly.

First of all, Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam -- Islam is just a facade and an excuse for those people to attack America.

...

Oh, no. They had strong excuses to attack America, America attacked Sudan for no fucking reason.

This. A hundred times this. Though there may be the odd group or two that are not doing this for politically motivated reasons, the majority do so.

[Bimmerhead]

There is a reason they are called TERRORIST and NOT EXTREMIST!!!11111!! AD NAUSEUM AD INFINITUM


First of all, Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam -- Islam is just a facade and an excuse for those people to attack America.

Islamic terrorism: is a term for acts of terrorism committed by Muslims for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends.
Islamic terrorism has been identified as taking place in the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Southeast Asia, and the United States since the 1970s. One of the most well-known militant organizations is Al-Qaeda, which was founded by Osama bin Laden for the stated goals of ending American military presence in the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula, overthrowing Arab regimes he considers corrupt and insufficiently religious,ending American support for Israel, and returning East Timor and Kashmir to Muslim rule.
See that's the key here! Everyone is soooo mad because we are helping the Jews. The Muslim extremists aren't exactly a live and let live band of people.

Oh, no. They had strong excuses to attack America, America attacked Sudan for no fucking reason.

The six sites attacked in Afghanistan were part of a network of terrorist compounds near the Pakistani border that housed supporters of Osama bin Laden. We attacked his compounds its not like we launched missiles at their cities! Its Afghanistan and when this happened (1998) it was completely run by alqueda so it was a festering cesspool anyway! We had our reasons and they were damn good ones!

You obviously hate Muslims and Middle-East. Okay, boys, Challlo Challlo my Pakistani Bais, let's invade Amerika...istan! Pande Suda Punjabi

I don't hate Muslims one of my best friends is Muslim Egyptian :confused:
But hey good luck trying to invade the most powerful country whose ever existed lol. Your gonna need it!


Maybe I want to continue my study in a college. Maybe I got a decent job. Maybe I found a girl, and we are ready to establish a family/or maybe I want to become a pornstar.

Maybe in few years, pass some interview, do the exam, and here - I am a full American citizen, rather than an immigrant resident. My English is fine, I even have a Californian accent!

What you gonna do about it?

Dude I don't care if you come here and immigrate the right way like EVERYONE else is supposed to. Everyone has the right to live in such a great country with so much opportunity! Im not going to do anything about it because your more then welcome IF your going to go about it legally and pay taxes and become a productive member of society more power to ya!

Hmm. No, there aren't. But guess who are destroying shit? That's right! YOUR military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan)! Also, stop bringing 9/11 into this. There were no Pakistani hijackers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks).

Also, don't take a swipe at my country's economy. Since you keep on pleading us to research your country before we try and debate you on it (as ironic as it is), how about you do the same.



Who said willy nilly let me in? Assess me all they want, at least let them make the right fucking decision. Speaking of which: my grandmother is allowed to visit the US. Not only is she actively religious (which I am not), she is also old enough to be politically motivated, not to mention old enough to have been alive before Pakistan's independence in 1947. She would have had more reasons to attack America than I can ever have, not to mention a higher chance of having access to the right resources. I am not saying she shouldn't be let in, just that your immigration policies are shite.



Stop making assumptions. I do not hate the US, and the ski trip was a school organised one. They wouldn't change it to Canada just for me, don't be silly.



This. A hundred times this. Though there may be the odd group or two that are not doing this for politically motivated reasons, the majority do so.

Yeah Pakistan's Economy is the 47th largest in the world. California is the 8th! Like I said What economy? LOL!! You are correct their were no Pakistani high jackers but you guys were just caught harboring the man who was solely responsible for the September 11th attacks Osama Bin Laden! So excuse us if we aren't letting anyone in from your country! Talk about a slap in the face! I really don't think you guys realize how severely those attacks effected my country! I know our immigration policies are shit that's why I started this thread! It started off with Illegal immigration into my country but you guys twisted it (big surprise) into a thread bashing the US because you have no knowledge of the original topic!

[Genghis Khan]

Islamic terrorism: is a term for acts of terrorism committed by Muslims for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends.
Islamic terrorism has been identified as taking place in the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Southeast Asia, and the United States since the 1970s. One of the most well-known militant organizations is Al-Qaeda, which was founded by Osama bin Laden for the stated goals of ending American military presence in the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula, overthrowing Arab regimes he considers corrupt and insufficiently religious,ending American support for Israel, and returning East Timor and Kashmir to Muslim rule.
See that's the key here! Everyone is soooo mad because we are helping the Jews. The Muslim extremists aren't exactly a live and let live band of people.

You're using the crimes committed by Muslims to justify your own country's injustice. Like embers said before 'two wrongs does NOT make a right'. It's no good saying 'well they aren't that good either'. You're right, there are Islamic extremists who are against the West, but that does not justify your position to help the Zionists who are killing innocent Palestinians every day.


I don't hate Muslims one of my best friends is Muslim Egyptian :confused:
But hey good luck trying to invade the most powerful country whose ever existed lol. Your gonna need it!

Why the fuck are you wishing us luck?


Yeah Pakistan's Economy is the 47th largest in the world. California is the 8th!

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/454-fffuuu.gif

I'm going to quote this which has been said 3 times already:

Size does NOT Matter. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic)


You are correct their were no Pakistani high jackers but you guys were just caught harboring the man who was solely responsible for the September 11th attacks Osama Bin Laden!

Let's not forget what happened with embers happened over a year ago. Way before you found Bin Laden lurking around there. In any case, this doesn't justify your shit immigration system.

So excuse us if we aren't letting anyone in from your country! Talk about a slap in the face! I really don't think you guys realize how severely those attacks effected my country!

Oh you're excused for thinking a boy would first come with his family to England, happen to get into a school whose next ski trip happened to be in America is plotting to blow it up. We're so sorry for judging your awesome immigration system for thinking this is even remotely possible and not being a bunch of racist filth.

I know our immigration policies are shit that's why I started this thread! It started off with Illegal immigration into my country but you guys twisted it (big surprise) into a thread bashing the US because you have no knowledge of the original topic!

We not only have knowledge about it but someone even has their own personal experience on it.

[embers]

Yeah Pakistan's Economy is the 47th largest in the world. California is the 8th! Like I said What economy? LOL!!

Here's you getting overjoyed because your economy trumps that of a borderline third-world country. Fact of the matter is we still have an economy, which you implied we don't. If I recall correctly, you said yourself in this thread that California / the USA was becoming a third-world region. Having the 8th largest economy in the world, I seriously doubt that is true.

You are correct their were no Pakistani high jackers but you guys were just caught harboring the man who was solely responsible for the September 11th attacks Osama Bin Laden!

Yes, our military (who in fact have a separate agenda from our government and our people) were caught harbouring bin Laden. One fucking month ago. I was denied my visa back in February 2010. Over a year ago. As far as I know, the tensions between your country and ours begun very early this year (or late last year). If anything, the US had done more damage that year to us than any of our insurgents did to them. (Refer back to the US drone attacks.)

So excuse us if we aren't letting anyone in from your country! Talk about a slap in the face! I really don't think you guys realize how severely those attacks effected my country!

I do. Again, it wasn't us, so stop bringing it up. If you were to blame our Inter-Services Intelligence, however, you might have some justification.

It started off with Illegal immigration into my country but you guys twisted it (big surprise) into a thread bashing the US because you have no knowledge of the original topic!

Lol, I'm not bashing the US. Just its immigration policy that equates us to unworthy pieces of shit.

[Bimmerhead]

Why the fuck are you wishing us luck?

Its called sarcasm! Im wishing you luck because I know you would never be successful not after 9/11.



Let's not forget what happened with embers happened over a year ago. Way before you found Bin Laden lurking around there. In any case, this doesn't justify your shit immigration system.

My country has a lot of problems (no where near the amount EVERYONE else has but still) and in no way am I saying we are perfect. What happened to Embers is unfortunate to say the least but all I am saying is the region he is coming from has been unstable for sometime now so we as Americans are very distrusting. If he was still living in England he would have zero issues.


Here's you getting overjoyed because your economy trumps that of a borderline third-world country. Fact of the matter is we still have an economy, which you implied we don't. If I recall correctly, you said yourself in this thread that California / the USA was becoming a third-world region. Having the 8th largest economy in the world, I seriously doubt that is true.

California DOES have the 8th largest economy Google it! And it is becoming a third world region. In some ways yes we are. Not in the way of sewage running into the streets and floods of disease and famine. Maybe third world is a little strong. This article highlights what I mean when I say third world country.
http://trueslant.com/japhygrant/2010/03/16/is-california-becoming-a-third-world-nation/

Yes, our military (who in fact have a separate agenda from our government and our people) were caught harbouring bin Laden. One fucking month ago. I was denied my visa back in February 2010. Over a year ago. As far as I know, the tensions between your country and ours begun very early this year (or late last year). If anything, the US had done more damage that year to us than any of our insurgents did to them. (Refer back to the US drone attacks.)

BOOM! This right here! This is why we have such problems with your country. Its a banana republic. I mean in 07 the prime minister suspended the constitution for like a year! You guys have so much internal conflict its not even funny! Referring to the US drone attacks those were completely sanctioned by the Pakistani government.

I do. Again, it wasn't us, so stop bringing it up. If you were to blame our Inter-Services Intelligence, however, you might have some justification.

Here is another good point. You guys have such shawdy security over there because you have other worries IE the military and government aren't one entity. If we were getting someone from England we would know every single little thing about the person coming over here because our governments communicate with each other.

[embers]

California DOES have the 8th largest economy Google it! And it is becoming a third world region. In some ways yes we are. Not in the way of sewage running into the streets and floods of disease and famine. Maybe third world is a little strong. This article highlights what I mean when I say third world country.
http://trueslant.com/japhygrant/2010/03/16/is-california-becoming-a-third-world-nation/

I'm not saying it doesn't have the 8th largest economy. I'm saying it doesn't, and isn't, close to being third-world.

BOOM! This right here! This is why we have such problems with your country. Its a banana republic. I mean in 07 the prime minister suspended the constitution for like a year! You guys have so much internal conflict its not even funny! Referring to the US drone attacks those were completely sanctioned by the Pakistani government.

There is internal conflict in many other countries, yet America never fails to let people from there in. Internal conflict is our problem only - it isn't in America's interest if politically motivated groups hide behind the face of radical Islam and attack our government. At the time there were no US-Pakistan tensions. There was no reason not to let me in.

As for the drone attacks, on the contrary, the Pakistani government spoke out against the drone attacks because of their inaccuracy. They said that too many civilians were being killed, and it was true. The number of civilians being killed in the drone attacks would only give tribes in the lawless regions a good reason to unite and fight the Americans. Besides, after a while, the drone attacks stopped being allowed to happen by the Pakistani government, but the Americans proceeded regardless.

Here is another good point. You guys have such shawdy security over there because you have other worries IE the military and government aren't one entity. If we were getting someone from England we would know every single little thing about the person coming over here because our governments communicate with each other.

That's the thing. I was living in England. I had been there for about two and a half years. The American embassy had the chance to find out 'every single little thing' about me. Instead, the immigration officer took one look at my father's face and said no. She didn't even look at the application.

As for our 'shawdy security' - does it matter when considering a 15 year old immigrant in England's visa app? I don't think it does.

[Bimmerhead]

I'm not saying it doesn't have the 8th largest economy. I'm saying it doesn't, and isn't, close to being third-world.



There is internal conflict in many other countries, yet America never fails to let people from there in. Internal conflict is our problem only - it isn't in America's interest if politically motivated groups hide behind the face of radical Islam and attack our government. At the time there were no US-Pakistan tensions. There was no reason not to let me in.

As for the drone attacks, on the contrary, the Pakistani government spoke out against the drone attacks because of their inaccuracy. They said that too many civilians were being killed, and it was true. The number of civilians being killed in the drone attacks would only give tribes in the lawless regions a good reason to unite and fight the Americans. Besides, after a while, the drone attacks stopped being allowed to happen by the Pakistani government, but the Americans proceeded regardless.



That's the thing. I was living in England. I had been there for about two and a half years. The American embassy had the chance to find out 'every single little thing' about me. Instead, the immigration officer took one look at my father's face and said no. She didn't even look at the application.

As for our 'shawdy security' - does it matter when considering a 15 year old immigrant in England's visa app? I don't think it does.

In your case you had a bad immigration officer and I wouldn't expect your experience to be that of everyone elses. as I have said before we are not perfect by any means. Our bad on our part but we are a large country and there are soooo many people coming here. Mistakes happen period. Yes it does matter when considering a 15 year olds app. Someone of that age should be treated with the same scrutiny as any adult. Believe it or not they are capable of the same things an adult is.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-15/opinion/obaid.suicide.children_1_suicide-bombers-pakistan-northwest-frontier-province?_s=PM:OPINION
Read this and tell me it cant happen. The first boy in this story was 15 years old! He killed 6 people in your country. Whats to stop them from coming over here and doing the same?? Your government!

Why is our drones being flown out of Pakistani air bases if they are so against it? Who is the victim of listening to the mass media now? The Pakistani government spoke out against such attacks but it then turned out to be a facade. They only did it to gain some good PR with the citizens of Pakistan and to make the US look like the bad guy!

[embers]

Yes it does matter when considering a 15 year olds app. Someone of that age should be treated with the same scrutiny as any adult. Believe it or not they are capable of the same things an adult is.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-15/opinion/obaid.suicide.children_1_suicide-bombers-pakistan-northwest-frontier-province?_s=PM:OPINION

Lol, it's funny that you think we have the same capability as adults. No, we do not. First of all, those children were brainwashed in madrassas, whereas I've been going to an English school (who even issued confirmation that the trip was a school trip). Where do you think the children mentioned in that article got their supplies from? That's right - adults. Most of them aren't even doing it for religious reasons, but because they are being forced to. They have no choice.

Also, I'm pretty sure it would be practically impossible in this day and age to smuggle explosives / manufacture them to/in England and then plan to take them to America.

Read this and tell me it cant happen. The first boy in this story was 15 years old! He killed 6 people in your country. Whats to stop them from coming over here and doing the same?? Your government!

Most of the people taught in madrassas won't be able to read or write English, let alone fool a country into letting them in. The only government they are capable of attacking is their own.

Why is our drones being flown out of Pakistani air bases if they are so against it? Who is the victim of listening to the mass media now? The Pakistani government spoke out against such attacks but it then turned out to be a facade. They only did it to gain some good PR with the citizens of Pakistan and to make the US look like the bad guy!

I've said more than once that the ISI / military have their own agenda, separate from the government. If the US are willing to take advantage of this split and intrude in Pakistan, killing tens if not hundreds of civilians in the process, then shame on them.

[Bimmerhead]

Lol, it's funny that you think we have the same capability as adults. No, we do not. First of all, those children were brainwashed in madrassas, whereas I've been going to an English school (who even issued confirmation that the trip was a school trip). Where do you think the children mentioned in that article got their supplies from? That's right - adults. Most of them aren't even doing it for religious reasons, but because they are being forced to. They have no choice.
They have no choice because Yes! They have been brainwashed so they will do whatever they have been trained to do! Its also much easier to get an affluent adult male handler for the child into the country. He then proceeds to make explosives in the US. I mean you can find all the ingredients of a bomb at a grocery store these days. It can be done! Its also not too far fetched to think that maybe the child was taught English at these schools. A 15 year old is just as capable as a full grown adult given the fact that he/she was brainwashed and has the resources.



Also, I'm pretty sure it would be practically impossible in this day and age to smuggle explosives / manufacture them to/in England and then plan to take them to America.
Yeah thats why you make them here. Hell I could make a bomb here!


Most of the people taught in madrassas won't be able to read or write English, let alone fool a country into letting them in. The only government they are capable of attacking is their own.
You underestimate the resolve of these extremists.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jlf0_are-jihadists-training-in-rural-ame_news
I urge you to watch this video and tell me why we shouldn't be worried about the Pakistani people!


I've said more than once that the ISI / military have their own agenda, separate from the government. If the US are willing to take advantage of this split and intrude in Pakistan, killing tens if not hundreds of civilians in the process, then shame on them.

Yeah and shame on you guys for killing each other all the time! Our mission is to kill extremists that pose a threat to my nation. You guys kill each other for religion? I honestly have no idea anymore they will find anything to fight about. Its sad. The amount of people we kill versus the amount of people who die from your own people doesn't even compare!

[embers]

They have no choice because Yes! They have been brainwashed so they will do whatever they have been trained to do! Its also much easier to get an affluent adult male handler for the child into the country. He then proceeds to make explosives in the US. I mean you can find all the ingredients of a bomb at a grocery store these days.

Then perhaps instead of cracking down on immigration to resolve issues of Islamic extremism, you should crack down on the threats within your country instead.

It can be done!

It is VERY unlikely. Why do you think there haven't been explosions all over the place? Because the radicals are incompetent?

Its also not too far fetched to think that maybe the child was taught English at these schools.

Yes, it is. The madrassas that teach radical literature are often run by people that barely know English themselves.

A 15 year old is just as capable as a full grown adult given the fact that he/she was brainwashed and has the resources.

That's the thing. They do NOT have the resources, and the completely brainwashed only exist in the tribal regions of our country. I highly doubt you will see a child suicide bomber, ever.

You underestimate the resolve of these extremists.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5jlf0_are-jihadists-training-in-rural-ame_news
I urge you to watch this video and tell me why we shouldn't be worried about the Pakistani people!

No, you overestimate them. Your media has created an Islamophobic, paranoid society among you.

As for the video, when I find the time to watch it (probably tomorrow), I'll give you my position on it.

Yeah and shame on you guys for killing each other all the time!

What?

Our mission is to kill extremists that pose a threat to my nation.

bin Laden aside, you aren't doing a very good job.

You guys kill each other for religion? I honestly have no idea anymore they will find anything to fight about. Its sad. The amount of people we kill versus the amount of people who die from your own people doesn't even compare!

I don't understand how this is relevant to my attempted holiday in the US.


As a sidenote, recently, American voice-breakdown technology suggested that the Pakistani generals had no knowledge that bin Laden was in Abottabad (or even in Pakistan). This doesn't suggest collaboration with extremists on the military's part, but just incompetence.

[Bimmerhead]

Then perhaps instead of cracking down on immigration to resolve issues of Islamic extremism, you should crack down on the threats within your country instead.
Well obviously that's why we haven't had any serious attacks in almost a decade.


It is VERY unlikely. Why do you think there haven't been explosions all over the place? Because the radicals are incompetent?
Good point they are probably the dumbest people to ever walk the earth.


Yes, it is. The madrassas that teach radical literature are often run by people that barely know English themselves.
OFTEN is the key word there. I highly doubt there isnt a single extremest who isnt fluent in English. I mean its not THAT hard to learn a second language. People do it all the time.


That's the thing. They do NOT have the resources, and the completely brainwashed only exist in the tribal regions of our country. I highly doubt you will see a child suicide bomber, ever.
Well you may doubt it but it is VERY possible and we wont just let our guard down because its unlikely.


No, you overestimate them. Your media has created an Islamophobic, paranoid society among you.
No the Muslim extremests ruined the Muslim image in this country when they killed 8000 of my people!

As for the video, when I find the time to watch it (probably tomorrow), I'll give you my position on it.
OMG please don't bother to reply unless you have done your homework! How many times have I said that?? Seriously its a 5 min video like you don't have all the time in the world LOL!


What?



bin Laden aside, you aren't doing a very good job.


I don't understand how this is relevant to my attempted holiday in the US.


As a sidenote, recently, American voice-breakdown technology suggested that the Pakistani generals had no knowledge that bin Laden was in Abottabad (or even in Pakistan). This doesn't suggest collaboration with extremists on the military's part, but just incompetence.

I beg to differ we are doing a GREAT job! If you look at the amount of extremists killed to the amount of US solders its staggering! This is why we dont want you guys coming into our country because its soooo politically unstable like I said. Seriously when you guys can hold a solid government and maybe become unified then we may treat you like any other progressive country.