Prove to me...

[maestro15]

I find myself not to be an atheist. I still believe in a God, but in a scientific way. On the contrary, I find that there is substantial evidence against God and Creationism.

Tell me why God is real, and for any evidence.

Please Note that I do not intend to mock religion, But to research it. I hope to gain my understanding of religion.

[Magus]

I find myself not to be an atheist. I still believe in a God, but in a scientific way. On the contrary, I find that there is substantial evidence against God and Creationism.

Tell me why God is real, and for any evidence.

Please Note that I do not intend to mock religion, But to research it. I hope to gain my understanding of religion.There is bible, go read it. All the evidence is in there!

LOL! And the one who neg repped me probably doesn't comprehend the concept of 'Sarcasm'.

[Continuum]

God is real because the priest told me he was. Sadly, that's all I could impart. Besides, learning the nature of God is extremely limited, especially without the proper blessings or hand-wavings by the clergy. :yes:

[embers]

All you'll get is personal experiences and probabilities.

[Travis_123]

And where is the proof that the bible is written or 'brought' to us by a 'higher entity'?

Personnaly i think that when you have some understanding of biology, chemistry, fysics (well science in general), history and sociology,..; it's hard to believe what the bible prescribes.. Another problem i have with the bible, is that it suggests that humans can't live decent without following it's rules. This would suggest that atheists and followers of different religions live a bad, horrible life without any knowledge of moral. Me, being an atheist, I don't need some book telling me that i shouldn't kill, rape or assault..
The morals found in the bible are derived from human source and are written by humans, the fact that in the bible a creator is present refers to the fact that in times when it was written, people had no full understanding of science and other knowledges. They were seeking a reason for many unexplainable things.. (this is a global trend, referring to the existence of different religions)
*Note that this is my personal opinion, I do not wish to convince, let alone insult any one.

[Death]

Personnaly i think that when you have some understanding of biology, chemistry, fysics (well science in general), history and sociology,..; it's hard to believe what the bible prescribes.. Another problem i have with the bible, is that it suggests that humans can't live decent without following it's rules. This would suggest that atheists and followers of different religions live a bad, horrible life without any knowledge of moral. Me, being an atheist, I don't need some book telling me that i shouldn't kill, rape or assault..
The morals found in the bible are derived from human source and are written by humans, the fact that in the bible a creator is present refers to the fact that in times when it was written, people had no full understanding of science and other knowledges. They were seeking a reason for many unexplainable things.. (this is a global trend, referring to the existence of different religions)
*Note that this is my personal opinion, I do not wish to convince, let alone insult any one.

If I recall correctly, the OP requested that you tell him why God exists.

[Peace God]

Tell me why God is real, and for any evidence.

Because Athiests don't believe in god and stuff, but they still sometimes get afraid of the dark and at scary movies which means they're lying, which must mean god exists!

Woo-hoo! game over.:yeah:

[Amnesiac]

I find myself not to be an atheist. I still believe in a God, but in a scientific way. On the contrary, I find that there is substantial evidence against God and Creationism.

Tell me why God is real, and for any evidence.

Please Note that I do not intend to mock religion, But to research it. I hope to gain my understanding of religion.

If you ask your normal church-goer, you'll get one of the following answers:

"You don't understand God. Nobody can understand God."

"Because he is."

"Once, when I was a child, I had this vision... (ect, ect)"

"Because the Bible says so."

"Because so many people believe in it!"

"Well, the Universe didn't just create itself, did it?"

All of which are just pathetic excuses for a complete lack of a counter-argument. The truth is, it's impossible to prove that God exists, or that he doesn't, simply because he's so incredibly vague and shallow that an infinite number of excuses could be conjured up for any argument against believing in him.

Most people believe in God because they're looking for answers to unanswerable questions, which is some of the stupidest fucking bullshit to ever plague humanity. We will never know exactly how the Universe was created, or where life came from. There's absolutely no point in making up an entity to explain it. The closest one will ever come to knowing how everything came to be is through scientific theory. Science may never bring us an answer, but having a solid explanation is better than having a shallow excuse. Really, it's better to concern yourself with the present and future – "the now" – rather than dwell on unknowable events.

[Travis_123]

well said Justin. When applying the laws of falsification, one could make an assumption and consider this as the truth as long as nobody is able to falsificate (find proof against) it. For example: If i would say: There is a star very far away filled with goat's cheese, this theory will remain correct as long as no one finds proof against it; this being an absurd hypothesis, but it's also applyable on the matter of a divine creature. Both are unfalsifiable.
Ofcourse Falsification is only one way of looking at it, scientist have a trustworthy explanation (following the rules of physics, chemistry,...) ready for the fact that it's impossible to find a star with cheese in it and for the existance of a divine creator.

And to reply on AJ's 'wel thought about' response: "Because Athiests don't believe in god and stuff, but they still sometimes get afraid of the dark and at scary movies which means they're lying, which must mean god exists!
Woo-hoo! game over."
We get afraid in the dark and during scary films, because our body is warning us for threatening situating, and is hereby protecting us from possible danger. It's a proven fact that humans are more alert in darkness. So it's a matter of receiving impulses from outside and responding to it.

If I recall correctly, the OP requested that you tell him why God exists.

Agreed, but to give him the biggest chance to find the right awnser, I belief that the more awnsers and views on this subjects he receives, the better he'll be able to form his own opinion.

[Crocbait230]

what makes the bible so amazing i dont get it
i believe in god but god is in my head and everyone elses head not outside in the actual world
I believe in god but i believe more in science
maybe Adam and Eve were on some island when god created the dinos
idk all i know is that there are no dinosaurs in the bible and dinos weren't even close to being in the same time period as humans they came way before humans therefore adam and eve isnt possible making me wonder what else isnt possible in those stories
maybe they were all metaphorical

[Travis_123]

what makes the bible so amazing i dont get it
i believe in god but god is in my head and everyone elses head not outside in the actual world
I believe in god but i believe more in science
maybe Adam and Eve were on some island when god created the dinos
idk all i know is that there are no dinosaurs in the bible and dinos weren't even close to being in the same time period as humans they came way before humans therefore adam and eve isnt possible making me wonder what else isnt possible in those stories
maybe they were all metaphorical
I agree.. Religion should be something personal. I only have a problem with religious people trying to influence, convince or even manipulate others. The fight for the religious 'cause' has been causing to much suffering in the past and in the present.

[RoseyCadaver]

I'm not sure if there is a God.I sometimes think maybe we exist because of a God,maybe God DOES exist because of us.That is my philosopher in me.I'm not exactly sure of anything.We could be a Sims game and the controller is God :D.

[short.dark.handsome]

There is bible, go read it. All the evidence is in there!

Surely you arn't serious!? You suggest basing this research on second or even third hand works outdated by 2,000 years, a book edited by a dictator who used it as a propaganda tool to quell the convulsions of a fading Roman empire?
Voltair (French Philosopher): "If God did not exist, Man would have need to create Him."

What if God exists with Life, alongside it. He did not create life but life created him and they sustain each other.
Quantum evolution for example: Insects don't live in the sea simply becuase their is nothing that they have adapted to in there, if sea levels rose insects would need to evolve to survive. ===> i.e. Once a force is measured its very nature changes.

What if we, as the human subject, must measure intelligence, morality, kindness, faith, etc...what if God or gods or G-d/w.e is a way to measure that and progress in philosophical evolution?

[Amnesiac]

Surely you arn't serious!?

He isn't.

[Magus]

He isn't.There is only one place for Liars and idol worshippers, and that's hell!
Surely you arn't serious!? You suggest basing this research on second or even third hand works outdated by 2,000 years, a book edited by a dictator who used it as a propaganda tool to quell the convulsions of a fading Roman empire?
Voltair (French Philosopher): "If God did not exist, Man would have need to create Him."

What if God exists with Life, alongside it. He did not create life but life created him and they sustain each other.
Quantum evolution for example: Insects don't live in the sea simply becuase their is nothing that they have adapted to in there, if sea levels rose insects would need to evolve to survive. ===> i.e. Once a force is measured its very nature changes.

What if we, as the human subject, must measure intelligence, morality, kindness, faith, etc...what if God or gods or G-d/w.e is a way to measure that and progress in philosophical evolution?Yes, I am serious! The bible is the infallible word of GOD! What kind of allegation is that the Bible is an errata? Did you know what befalls arguments without any evidential support? They fall apart underneath logic!

Argumentum ad authoritatum - just because some shit fail writer says something doesn't mean it's true! That guy was anti-semite, ant-christ freemason!

God is infinite, he has no beginning and no end!

Oh, and how relevant is "Quantum" evolution to the existence of a God? Only GOD KNOWZ!

ok guys, I wasn't being serious - i kid i kid :P

[Origami]

God doesn't exist.
God does exist.

It's a debate that no one will ever win unless the rapture comes. When will you all shut up and accept that?

[Death]

We can't prove to you anything, since the concept of God is given in such a deliberately vague way that the whole concept is both illogical and cannot be debated for or against with anything resembling real evidence. Why religious people had to do this to their concept of god I don't know.

[OneTwo]

religion is simply about faith. you either have it or you dont. if you need to persuade yourself to have faith than your an atheist. i think your question is best suited to thinking about it on your own.

[RoseyCadaver]

religion is simply about faith. you either have it or you dont. if you need to persuade yourself to have faith than your an atheist. i think your question is best suited to thinking about it on your own.

Amen.I think if you believe in a God or form of God you won't need any proof.I'm sure I'll be bashed by some atheist,but I believe it is just there,you know?

[Peace God]

God doesn't exist.
God does exist.

It's a debate that no one will ever win unless the rapture comes. When will you all shut up and accept that?
When we lose our curiosity and ability to think about the nature of our existence.

AKA: Never. (well for me at least)

[Death]

Amen.I think if you believe in a God or form of God you won't need any proof.I'm sure I'll be bashed by some atheist,but I believe it is just there,you know?

Is God the only thing not requiring proof, or are there others?

[rkkop11]

well, have you ever asked why there are some things that science and man can never explain? That no matter how extensive researches have been done, still no explanation. I would like to recommend Reading the BIBLE or seeing a local priest or catechist, minister, pastor or nun.:) You really don't know what you are missing!:)

[chazzrox2]

Hey I'm a scientist with faith so I appreciate both sides of the argument.

God is incomparable, the very idea of all powerful being is too much to much to understand, I personally believe it is a personification put on a force of nature much like other "pagan" gods, etc.

But then from a scientififc point of view: We have duplicated almsot every single act of God and are getting close to finishing it :) Maybe we are Gods to flies and lab mice?

But maybe God initiated everything then just left it too itself and started playing golf.....which he maybe invented....or just made the universe just so someone would invent it

[Peace God]

God is incomparable, the very idea of all powerful being is too much to much to understand, I personally believe it is a personification put on a force of nature much like other "pagan" gods, etc.

"force of nature" =/= "God"

[embers]

well, have you ever asked why there are some things that science and man can never explain? That no matter how extensive researches have been done, still no explanation. I would like to recommend Reading the BIBLE or seeing a local priest or catechist, minister, pastor or nun.:) You really don't know what you are missing!:)

Science cannot provide completely accurate theories for some occasions in life. Therefore, my God exists!

Have you ever asked yourself why, despite the undying faith you and others have given to your God, his existence is no more credible than the existence of sphere-headed, anthropomorphic excrement denser than a neutron star at the centre of our universe?

[Continuum]

well, have you ever asked why there are some things that science and man can never explain? That no matter how extensive researches have been done, still no explanation. I would like to recommend Reading the BIBLE or seeing a local priest or catechist, minister, pastor or nun.:) You really don't know what you are missing!:)

I did. You were right, I missed out a lot. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+23%3A19-20&version=NIV)

[Hope4u]

I heard a qoute before..."to a true believer, no evidence is needed....to a nonbeliever, no evidence is enough"..and it's true..you either except it on faith or you don't

[JDubya93]

I agree with the above statement. There is nothing anyone can say or show, that could ever prove or disprove the existence of God.

[Magus]

I agree with the above statement. There is nothing anyone can say or show, that could ever prove or disprove the existence of God.It's true, no body can prove or disprove the existence. But that doesn't mean it exist, if it doesn't have proof for it to not exist.
But maybe God initiated everything then just left it too itself and started playing golf.....which he maybe invented....or just made the universe just so someone would invent itThere is nothing in the universe that can indicate it was "created" by a supernatural sentient being. Can you bring a sample of an evidence that can show us it was created by a supernatural being.

Even if it did so, even if natural God did exist(if not supernatural), religious dogma and beliefs is beyond absurd and mostly contradictory to logic and empirical science. And the arguments that are put forth by religious are easily refuted.
Would like to recommend Reading the BIBLE or seeing a local priest or catechist, minister, pastor or nun.:) You really don't know what you are missing!:)I'd like to recommend reading the QURAN or Seeing a local Muslim Cleric, Mullah, Imam and etc.

You really don't know what's missing(fireworks!).
I did. You were right, I missed out a lot. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+23%3A19-20&version=NIV)

Lol at this! Even sex stories aren't as graphic and allegoric as this.

I have a nice one, too.

The Holy bible (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekiel+4%3A15&version=NASB) <- Holy shit!

[Jawbreaker]

I find myself not to be an atheist. I still believe in a God, but in a scientific way. On the contrary, I find that there is substantial evidence against God and Creationism.

Tell me why God is real, and for any evidence.

Please Note that I do not intend to mock religion, But to research it. I hope to gain my understanding of religion.


Can I ask how you believe in "God, but in a scientific way"? Any possible definition of God that I've come across that doesn't just use God as a synonym for nature is intentionally vague and lacking any predictive or observable power whatsoever. This, then, has led me to conclude that God is not scientific in any way, nor is God a very good way of explaining anything. In fact, if anything, it is amongst the most anti-scientific things there is, as it works as a curiosity stopper--that is, anything that, rather than provide an explanation, pretends to have answered a question but instead explains nothing (the clearest example being "God did it!" which says absolutely nothing).

[Azunite]

Open your eyes people! God does not exist, Allah exists.

[Jawbreaker]

I agree with the above statement. There is nothing anyone can say or show, that could ever prove or disprove the existence of God.

That's actually not true. Specific kinds of gods can be proven to be false. For example, suppose I claimed that a God that will ALWAYS cure cancer five minutes upon detection exists. The empirical evidence clearly contradicts this claim and thus, we can conclude that this God does NOT exist.

But what about more vague claims? How about, "God exists and he sometimes cures cancer"? The primary difficulty with this claim is proving that this is God at work and nothing else. For example, if everyone were to pray to God and ALWAYS be healed, this may be compelling--if not definitive--evidence that God does exist. But, if by sometimes we mean "absolutely random" then no claim about God's actions or existence could have any meaning since it would be virtually impossible to prove. This inability to prove the claim works AGAINST God. This is very logical. Suppose I claimed that you are secretly Osama Bin Laden after plastic surgery that is so advanced, it is unable to be detected. Should the CIA detain you because "well, after all, nobody can prove it right or wrong, and it's better to be safe than sorry"? Of course not, the charge is bogus and should be ignored.

That is, the very unverifiable nature of God works against him and even if no one can conclusively disprove the idea, nobody has to. Nobody can make a meaningful claim about knowing God.

[Continuum]

Open your eyes people! God does not exist, Allah exists.

No, Cengiz. We are all deceived. It's clear that Shiva is the true way to salvation. All hail our Destroyer! :yes:

[chazzrox2]

There is nothing in the universe that can indicate it was "created" by a supernatural sentient being. Can you bring a sample of an evidence that can show us it was created by a supernatural being.

Even if it did so, even if natural God did exist(if not supernatural), religious dogma and beliefs is beyond absurd and mostly contradictory to logic and empirical science. And the arguments that are put forth by religious are easily refuted.

Well look at the big bang theory: All matter and energy had to come from somewhere, it can't be explained or thrown off as just "the right place at the right time" becuase there was nothing there in the first place.

According to the laws of physics nothing can just be made in to existence so where did everything come from?

[Jawbreaker]

Well look at the big bang theory: All matter and energy had to come from somewhere, it can't be explained or thrown off as just "the right place at the right time" becuase there was nothing there in the first place.

According to the laws of physics nothing can just be made in to existence so where did everything come from?

How does God answer that question? You're essentially saying something like "something cannot come from nothing, but God is something. Problem solved!" but it really isn't.

Think about it for a second. If nothing but God existed, that means that even IF God created the universe, the "material" used was "nothing" and it was turned into something. This pretty much invalidates the argument since you're starting with the premise that something cannot come from nothing. If that's true, not even God can solve the problem; if it isn't true, we don't even need to plug in God to the equation.

In case you're having trouble understanding what I'm saying, think of someone trying to make a cake. There is no flour whatsoever. Now, you say, "I see a cake. Cake cannot come from nothing. Maria is something. Therefore the cake came from Maria." Maybe, but what we're trying to figure out is where the flour came from, so even if we plug in Maria to the equation, we still wind up saying that the flour appeared from nowhere so Maria could make the cake. It isn't a solution at all.

[Nihilus]

I find this interesting when it involves the bible. You need Netflix but here: http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Ancient_Aliens/70178604?trkid=2361637#height1399

To me it proves the bible may have some truth but most is bull.

[Mezlo]

Science does not even try to explain the ultimate origin. Sure it tries to explain the origin of the earth and our universe, but there's always something behind each thing. I don't really know of an answer other than some higher being that transcends time. To me it takes a lot bigger leap of faith to believe that even in billions of years that we all just happened than to believe in an intelligent designer. The more you study the complexity of the human body, the earth, and the universe, the more you realize how much of a stretch it is to think it happened by accident in any amount of time.

[Charlotte93]

well my dad and i offten have religion discushions. There is a "religion" i gess called deisum. Its when you beleive in god and the siences like listen to this. The thery of evolution states we , humans, evolved from monkies or somthing. Now the thery of evolution has never been proved because there is no fossles or anything like that linking monkies to humans so my thery is god sped up the evolution prosses and it was so fast of a jump that there are no fossles from the cross of the two speches. So tecnicly one thery can never really logicly exist with out the other. The thery of evolution is always incompleat and somthing seems to be missing from the whole thing about god.

P.S. i am in no way putting down any other religion i strongly respect all other religions and am in no way trying to say anything bad about them.

[Magus]

According to the laws of physics nothing can just be made in to existence so where did everything come from?You will contradict yourself, believe me.

You are trying to say God made matter, but what is God made of? Who made that God? Ad Infinitum. Infinite Regress.

[Continuum]

You will contradict yourself, believe me.

You are trying to say God made matter, but what is God made of? Who made that God? Ad Infinitum. Infinite Regress.

Aye. That is how all religions view their Gods as, something outside the limits of time and space, and even beyond. It is a mystery not even science can tell, and also the excuse of those who stick too much to their ass-faith.

[ajp1993]

I believe there is a limit to what science can explain, that possibly there was driving force behind everything else. I do not think science and religion need to be mutually exclusive.

[Genghis Khan]

I do not think science and religion need to be mutually exclusive.

They are.

I believe there is a limit to what science can explain, that possibly there was driving force behind everything else.

As far science and our knowledge of existence goes, yes, that is limited. However to make a huge assumption like some divine creature being the driving force behind everything else is again an assumption based on anecdotal evidence, ancient texts, personal experiences, probabilities, questions we can't answer at this present time and our lack of knowledge. We can't say anything with absolute certainty, even most Atheists don't absolutely reject the notion but think there's a very low probability a God exists. Regardless, if this is another theory based on the previously stated types of evidence then it's not worth giving attention to, until or unless, we dig up some positive evidence supporting it.

[Sith Lord 13]

They are.

No, they're not.

[Genghis Khan]

No, they're not.

You're right. I was speaking out of ignorance. Apologies.

[Sage]

No, they're not.

Yes, they are. In science, you look for data and use it to reach a conclusion. In religion, you reach a conclusion and then look for data that supports it.

[Genghis Khan]

Yes, they are. In science, you look for data and use it to reach a conclusion. In religion, you reach a conclusion and then look for data that supports it.

I think he means they are not mutually exclusive because they can (or so far have been able to) co-exist.

'In layman's terms, two events are mutually exclusive if they cannot occur at the same time'.

[Sith Lord 13]

Yes, they are. In science, you look for data and use it to reach a conclusion. In religion, you reach a conclusion and then look for data that supports it.

Just because they use different methods doesn't make them mutually exclusive. In fact religion and science shouldn't overlap. Anyone who uses religion to tell them if something is physically possible is an idiot. Anyone who looks to science to tell them if something should be done is a fool.

[Perseus]

well my dad and i offten have religion discushions. There is a "religion" i gess called deisum. Its when you beleive in god and the siences like listen to this. The thery of evolution states we , humans, evolved from monkies or somthing. Now the thery of evolution has never been proved because there is no fossles or anything like that linking monkies to humans so my thery is god sped up the evolution prosses and it was so fast of a jump that there are no fossles from the cross of the two speches. So tecnicly one thery can never really logicly exist with out the other. The thery of evolution is always incompleat and somthing seems to be missing from the whole thing about god.

P.S. i am in no way putting down any other religion i strongly respect all other religions and am in no way trying to say anything bad about them.

What is this? I don't even-

[Genghis Khan]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2697/4298430997_790bbf5a01.jpg

well my dad and i offten have religion discushions. There is a "religion" i gess called deisum.

Deism (if that is what you're referring to) is the philosophy of religion. It in itself is not a religion/ideology/dogma, it basically states that reason and observation of the natural world can somehow determine the universe has an intelligent designer. It's closely linked to Pantheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism).


Its when you beleive in god and the siences like listen to this. The thery of evolution states we , humans, evolved from monkies or somthing.

No. Modern day apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor named 'Hominid' or 'Hominidae'.

Now the thery of evolution has never been proved because there is no fossles or anything like that linking monkies to humans

Have you ever read about the evidence for evolution? There are books on this, even Richard Dawkins has written a full detailed book on the Evidence for Evolution called 'The Greatest Show on Earth'. If this wasn't 'proven' or believed to be true it wouldn't be called a scientific theory.

so my thery is god sped up the evolution prosses and it was so fast of a jump that there are no fossles from the cross of the two speches.

What?

So tecnicly one thery can never really logicly exist with out the other. The thery of evolution is always incompleat and somthing seems to be missing from the whole thing about god.

Two theories can only not co-exist either if one is right and the other is wrong and they are contradicting each other in which case the right one is given priority and the wrong one, funnily enough, isn't. The second case being both theories are bullshit, contradict each other and are principally ones we have no reason to believe either.

P.S. i am in no way putting down any other religion i strongly respect all other religions and am in no way trying to say anything bad about them.

You've only 'put down' how little you know about evolution and science.

[maestro15]

For any Creationists. Humans didnt JUST come out of Monkeys. It was a slow process over millions of years. THese things cant be seen through the naked eye, unless you can live to be a million or two. I will start a new thread where i will attempt to answer or debunk any creationist arguments.