Suicide.

[Noooooooooo]

People seem to see suicide in a very negative light, calling it "selfish" and "cowardly" and such like.

Why do you think this is? What is your opinion?

Personally I feel everyone has a moral right to end their own life if they so wish - they didn't consent to it beforehand, after all, so if they don't like this place, shouldn't they be free to leave?
I think that it's more selfish to force people to continue suffering instead of letting them go.
People who deem it as "selfish" probably have never been suicidal before.

[anamcara]

i think the same as you, i wouldnt call it selfish and cowardly but unfortunately some people have these views, when the topic comes up i just agree to disagree lol, cause i know everyone is entiltled to an opinion and mine may not be someone else's if that makes sense :) x

[Fiction]

I agree with you, however I also know a lot of people that have attempted and ended up getting better and feeling better. I think the whole "permanent solution to a temporary problem" comes into play here too.

While I think that someone has the right to die sometimes people use suicide attempts as a cry for help, and if we just thought " oh well... just die that's what you want", they'd never get that help and then they really would end up suicidal.

Also I know while i'd like the right to die myself, when I think about people that i know that have attempted suicide, and would have suceeded without mendical intervention it scares me, because i'd have lost a hell of a lot of people. Call me selfish but whether it's right or wrong i'm glad we don't have the right to die :/

[MadManWithaBox]

I have attempted suicide in the past, several tomes, and came very close to succeeding. At the time, I can say I didn't think I was being selfish. And I wasnt pleased that I was saved. But now... Say 6 months since my last serious attempt, I am. I'm glad, like Kathy, we don't have the right to die.

[Death]

Commiting suicide is possibly selfish in that you are giving grief to your family and friends. Apart from that, it's your choice and I otherwise wouldn't find it particually immoral. If your life really is that shit, then I can understand not wanting to bother with it. I can never recommend it however.

[slappy]

It's not necessarily the act itself as much as it is thinking about committing suicide that is the problem. If someone is thinking of committing suicide, they are not always thinking of who they will leave behind, the people who love them, they are thinking of the people who they think or know hate them. They neglect to realize that there are people who love them and who will miss them when they are gone. That in itself is pretty selfish. That is just my opinion.

[Noooooooooo]

Commiting suicide is possibly selfish in that you are giving grief to your family and friends.

I partly agree with this. What you are saying is that the person committing suicide is thinking only of himself and has no idea of what his death will do to those around him.



But what if you have no family or friends, or little family affection? What if nobody cares about your existence?

[MadManWithaBox]

But one of the most important things I've learned, crap as it sounds, is that someone always cares.

[Magus]

There is the psychological matter that also plays an important role. Some people become suicidal in spite of them, because of what happened to them - it's not because they can't cope, it's just their nature to become that - so, I wouldn't call it 'selfish' needlessly.

[Noooooooooo]

Depression is a huge role in suicide.
Depression, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, abusive past, shocking events occurred in the past ... a lot shit.



•Up to 15% of those who are clinically depressed die by suicide.
•In 1997, suicide was the 8th leading cause of death in the United States. 10.6 out of every 100,000 persons died by suicide. The total number of suicides was approximately 30,535.
•In 1996 there were an estimated 500,000 suicide attempts.
•There are an estimated 8 to 25 attempted suicides to 1 completion; the ratio is higher in women and youth and lower in men and the elderly.
•More than four times as many men than women die by suicide. However, women report attempting suicide about twice as often as men.
•Suicide by firearms is the most common method for both men and women, accounting for 58% of all suicides in 1997.
•72% percent of all suicides and 79% of all firearm suicides are committed by white men. The highest suicide rate was for white men over 85 years of age-65 per 100,000 persons.
•Over the last several decades, the suicide rate in young people has increased dramatically. In 1997, suicide was the 3rd leading cause of death in 15 to 24 year olds-11.5 of every 100,000 persons-following unintentional injuries and homicide.
•The suicide rate among children 10 to 14 years old was 303 deaths among 19,040,000 children in this age group.
•For adolescents aged 15 to 19, there were 1,802 deaths among 19,068,000 adolescents. The gender ratio in this age group was 5:1 (males: females).
•Among young people 20 to 24 years of age, there were 2,384 deaths among 17,512,000 people in this age group. The gender ratio in this age group was 7:1 (males: females).
•The majority of suicide attempts are expressions of extreme distress that need to be addressed, and not just a harmless bid for attention. A suicidal person should not be left alone and needs immediate mental health treatment
•The strongest risk factors for attempted suicide in adults are depression, alcohol abuse, cocaine use, and separation or divorce.
•The strongest risk factors for attempted suicide in youth are depression, alcohol or other drug use disorder, and aggressive or disruptive behaviors.



Well people who try to commit suicide find no way out of their problem other than to kill them-self. Problems that affect their lives everyday and cause them on going pain. Such as facing the fact of growing up, bullying, rough times at home, etc.
It always depends on the person. Some people may not care about their family because probably no one cares about them or abuses them.
Others do care and try to bear with the pain of living on or so they might say.
But others truly no longer desire to live on they probably think things would be better without them. That everyone would be happier, there would be more money, room, more oxygen, etc.

[deadpie]

I don't see anything cowardly in suicide. Come on. They're taking their life. That's pretty serious. You can't be a coward to just say, "fuck it" and bite the dust. That takes guts!

Selfish? Ah, fuck people. I could give a damn less what they'd think. Over here where I live when someone kills themselves we make a facebook memorial, care for two weeks than go back to our lives and pretend nothing ever happened. Also, there's allot of people who commit suicide because they want to hurt and punish others. Some people kill themselves over people, be it a relationship, abuse and so on.

Yes, I am horrible person. I defend people with problems. How dare I?

The truth is to that "permanent solution to a temporary problem" comment is that some people, they really cannot go back to being happy again. That literally is the only answer they have because they don't even remember what happiness feels like, but they can only imagine what it feels like. Like Eyedea said, "When a person goes that far sometimes they're never coming back."

[slappy]

But, to pout it in simple terms, yes it is very selfish

[Death]

But, to pout it in simple terms, yes it is very selfish

Try saying that to somebody, whose family has been murdered in front of them, with a gun pointing to their head whilst standing on the edge of a road bridge.

[slappy]

Try saying that to somebody, whose family has been murdered in front of them, with a gun pointing to their head whilst standing on the edge of a road bridge.

What I am saying is, when someone is going to kill themselves they don't think of the people they will leave behind, they are only thinking how bad there life is. If they thought about there families and e people who love them it would make it harder for them to commit suicide.

[Death]

What I am saying is, when someone is going to kill themselves they don't think of the people they will leave behind, they are only thinking how bad there life is. If they thought about there families and e people who love them it would make it harder for them to commit suicide.

And if they have no family or friends?

[deadpie]

And if they have no family or friends?

He doesn't care. The only thing he thinks is that everyone should live on this Earth no matter how fucking shitty there life is.

It's their decision. Who cares about the people your leaving behind? They're probably the ones that help lead you to suicide in the end. So fuck 'em. Not every damn person can be there to talk to when you're bored. That's probably all you are to the person that's killed themselves. You're nothing more than someone to have a conversation with. We're all going to die one day or another. I think old people who force people to keep people caring and changing their diaper are ten times as selfish as anyone that commits suicide could ever be. Those old ass people are the biggest attention whores of them all. They're ready to die and they get people to visit them every day and build onto their house or whatever...seriously fuck those people.

[slappy]

He doesn't care. The only thing he thinks is that everyone should live on this Earth no matter how fucking shitty there life is.

It's their decision. Who cares about the people your leaving behind? They're probably the ones that help lead you to suicide in the end. So fuck 'em. Not every damn person can be there to talk to when you're bored. That's probably all you are to the person that's killed themselves. You're nothing more than someone to have a conversation with. We're all going to die one day or another. I think old people who force people to keep people caring and changing their diaper are ten times as selfish as anyone that commits suicide could ever be. Those old ass people are the biggest attention whores of them all. They're ready to die and they get people to visit them every day and build onto their house or whatever...seriously fuck those people.



Don't pout words in my mouth, I don't respect it.
What you stated is a very ignorant way of thinking of this topic.

What I am saying is, the people who are wanting to kill themselves are not thinking of people who care about the (there is always someone ) they are thinking about how they think everyone hates them. What I am saying is they don't care enough to look for people who care about them, they are firm on the belefe that everyone hates them, it is a part of depression, self loathing. I'm not saying they do that for attention, they do that because that is what they truly beleve.

[deadpie]

What I am saying is, the people who are wanting to kill themselves are not thinking of people who care about the (there is always someone ) they are thinking about how they think everyone hates them. What I am saying is they don't care enough to look for people who care about them, they are firm on the belefe that everyone hates them, it is a part of depression, self loathing. I'm not saying they do that for attention, they do that because that is what they truly beleve.

Yeah, and some people literally have NOBODY to go to. They have no friends or family. Nobody gives a living shit about them. There's so many people like that. Is it hard for you to see and understand that?

Now I bet you guys would be ok with suicide if the person was someone like a rapist or murderer, right? Lol, hypocrisy.

[slappy]

Yeah, and some people literally have NOBODY to go to. They have no friends or family. Nobody gives a living shit about them. There's so many people like that. Is it hard for you to see and understand that?

Now I bet you guys would be ok with suicide if the person was someone like a rapist or murderer, right? Lol, hypocrisy.

What are you talking about?
You don't know me, you don't know what I have been through or how I feel about things. Don't you dare come on here and try to tell me what I have thought or have done. That's pathetic that you would even say that crap, trying to say you know me is just a completely asinine and nonsensical thing to say.

[deadpie]

What are you talking about?
You don't know me, you don't know what I have been through or how I feel about things. Don't you dare come on here and try to tell me what I have thought or have done. That's pathetic that you would even say that crap, trying to say you know me is just a completely asinine and nonsensical thing to say.

mfw you answered none of my questions and just making that pointless post.

[slappy]

mfw you answered none of my questions and just making that pointless post.

You need to check your shit, that's all I'm gonna say on this topic.

[deadpie]

You need to check your shit, that's all I'm gonna say on this topic.

And you still haven't answered my questions.

[Death]

Don't pout words in my mouth, I don't respect it.
What you stated is a very ignorant way of thinking of this topic.

What are you talking about?
You don't know me, you don't know what I have been through or how I feel about things. Don't you dare come on here and try to tell me what I have thought or have done. That's pathetic that you would even say that crap, trying to say you know me is just a completely asinine and nonsensical thing to say.

You need to check your shit, that's all I'm gonna say on this topic.

Way to overreact dude.

[Crocbait230]

Now im not a christian (atheist) but i do go to church.. I like to think that "god" has a time for everyone to die NATURALLY not a car crash, not murdered, and not suicide, natural disaster thats natural...
Suicide i think isnt selfish or cowardly.
people who commit suicide are just looking for a way out. suicide being the easiest way.

[slappy]

Way to overreact dude.

Did you even read what he said?
First he tried to pout words I'm my mouth, then he tried to assume what it is that I think. That's bullshit.

[Death]

Did you even read what he said?

Yes.

First he tried to pout words I'm my mouth, then he tried to assume what it is that I think. That's bullshit.

Except that deadpie actually gave you proper aguments; the "putting words into mouth thing" (which I think you're exaggerating over) was merely incidental. You, on the other hand, set out more to make personal attacks. I'm just saying that I don't think what deadpie did was that bad considering the way you accused him of what you did (the way in which you put it quite frankly looks worse), and at least he gave you good arguments. Of course, you could have simply tried to refute him like one does in a debate thread.

[slappy]

He doesn't care. The only thing he thinks is that everyone should live on this Earth no matter how fucking shitty there life is.


Yeah, and some people literally have NOBODY to go to. They have no friends or family. Nobody gives a living shit about them. There's so many people like that. Is it hard for you to see and understand that

I took offense to that.
Yes I may have overreacted, and I am sorry about that.
I just can't stand it when people try to pout words in my mouth and that is what triggered it.

[RoseyCadaver]

To call someone who wants to commit suicide selfish is stupid.I think if you are willing to stop your own life you must A:be going through a rough time or B:Have something wrong with you.It's not really normal to want to kill yourself so I think it's ussally an experinece you have that makes you want to commit suicide,like a while back my family had a big feud,and to top it off my mom was having some bad kidney problems(there better now :) ) none the less I was almost suicidal because my family has always been close.So it's a very touchy topic.To say one is selfish for wanting to commit suicide is very vauge because of all the cases.It is there right to do it I think,but it doesn't mean it's the best right.

[Death]

He doesn't care. The only thing he thinks is that everyone should live on this Earth no matter how fucking shitty there life is.


Yeah, and some people literally have NOBODY to go to. They have no friends or family. Nobody gives a living shit about them. There's so many people like that. Is it hard for you to see and understand that

I took offense to that.
Yes I may have overreacted, and I am sorry about that.
I just can't stand it when people try to pout words in my mouth and that is what triggered it.

I'll admit that one might find that somewhat offensive, but you went further than he did. And as I said, he made a good point in later posts. Suffice to say I think this pointless arguing should stop and we should start addressing each other properly.

As such, I have a question for you: What do you think about a man commiting suicide when he has no money, no education, no home, his family has died of cancer, and everyone hates him?

[slappy]

I'll admit that one might find that somewhat offensive, but you went further than he did. And as I said, he made a good point in later posts. Suffice to say I think this pointless arguing should stop and we should start addressing each other properly.

As such, I have a question for you: What do you think about a man commiting suicide when he has no money, no education, no home, his family has died of cancer, and everyone hates him?

Well, you can rely on the kindness of strangers. Yea, i know it sounds stupid but the odds are if you talk to someone on the street they will help. strangers are nice and will help you. Yea, sounds stupid but the situation you gave me is very unlikely to happen. My personal opinion is that there is always someone who will care about you. The countless posts I have seen on here that have said they where going to kill themselves and strangers are reaching out to help, like I said kindness of strangers.

[deadpie]

Well, you can rely on the kindness of strangers. Yea, i know it sounds stupid but the odds are if you talk to someone on the street they will help.

Talk to someone on the street? THE STREET? Uh, I don't know about you but the type of people on the street to talk to are probably going to introduce you into a great drug life style.

Let me say something. All those books you read about people making it through HORRIBLE tragedies, those are very uncommon. There's a very very low chance that some stranger that gives a shit is just on the street ready to solve every problem you have, which in this case would be the man's problem of having no money, all of his family is dead, and he has no education for a job.

That's allot of things to help someone with. This isn't a generous world. I'm pretty sure here in America people care more about making it to the McDonalds line early before it builds up then some guy who has no life ready to kill himself.

strangers are nice and will help you. Yea, sounds stupid but the situation you gave me is very unlikely to happen.

LOLOLOLOL. There's over 6 million high school students alone that drop out. So there goes education. Now the everyone dying of cancer part probably not, but there's always a situation where every member could die. And you can just guess the huge amount of homeless people.

My personal opinion is that there is always someone who will care about you.

That's a very positive and nice way to think, but it's not reality. Most people aren't willing to save your life. They're more interested in the well being of themselves or their family. Also, you have to think that stranger might have problems he's dealing with too and he doesn't want MORE shit to deal with, right?

The countless posts I have seen on here that have said they where going to kill themselves and strangers are reaching out to help, like I said kindness of strangers.

Yes, every stranger in the world right now is on the street with their hands out ready to help anyone. That's a joke.

Now I'm going to bring back this point because you still didn't answer it: Now I bet you guys would be ok with suicide if the person was someone like a rapist or murderer, right?

[slappy]

Talk to someone on the street? THE STREET? Uh, I don't know about you but the type of people on the street to talk to are probably going to introduce you into a great drug life style.

Let me say something. All those books you read about people making it through HORRIBLE tragedies, those are very uncommon. There's a very very low chance that some stranger that gives a shit is just on the street ready to solve every problem you have, which in this case would be the man's problem of having no money, all of his family is dead, and he has no education for a job.

That's allot of things to help someone with. This isn't a generous world. I'm pretty sure here in America people care more about making it to the McDonalds line early before it builds up then some guy who has no life ready to kill himself.



LOLOLOLOL. There's over 6 million high school students alone that drop out. So there goes education. Now the everyone dying of cancer part probably not, but there's always a situation where every member could die. And you can just guess the huge amount of homeless people.



That's a very positive and nice way to think, but it's not reality. Most people aren't willing to save your life. They're more interested in the well being of themselves or their family. Also, you have to think that stranger might have problems he's dealing with too and he doesn't want MORE shit to deal with, right?



Yes, every stranger in the world right now is on the street with their hands out ready to help anyone. That's a joke.

Now I'm going to bring back this point because you still didn't answer it: Now I bet you guys would be ok with suicide if the person was someone like a rapist or murderer, right?


I'm not talking to you and I'm not going to waist my time.
Thank you.

[deadpie]

I'm not talking to you and I'm not going to waist my time.
Thank you.

WHY ARE YOU EVEN POSTING IN THIS THREAD? You're just personally trying to rally me up to say something rude to you, because you keep making comments like these. This is a debate. You answer questions. All you've done is start babbling and trying to start drama. You're bringing nothing new to the table on this debate and just ruining this thread.

[slappy]

WHY ARE YOU EVEN POSTING IN THIS THREAD? You're just personally trying to rally me up to say something rude to you, because you keep making comments like these. This is a debate. You answer questions. All you've done is start babbling and trying to start drama. You're bringing nothing new to the table on this debate and just ruining this thread.

No, I've just had enough of talking to you
I'm taking the high road and not waisting my time with you

[Scarface]

Everyone needs to calm down right now. If there is absolutely nothing to add to the thread but insults and and complaining nonsense, the thread will be closed and infractions will be handed out.

[slappy]

Everyone needs to calm down right now. If there is absolutely nothing to add to the thread but insults and and complaining nonsense, the thread will be closed and infractions will be handed out.

Thank you, agreed.

Anyway,
I have a family friend, his name is mark. He is a great guy. Wife that loves him. Dose not have kids, but he basically adopted my two cousins after there mom died on christmas eve 1998 to relive the stress off my grandparents, paying for brasses and helping them with school. He has a great life, a lot of people love him, including myself. Now, I'm speaking like he is still here. January 28 2009, his wife is at work, just about to get off from work, drives home in her new BMW that mark bought her for valentines day because he came on to a good amount of money from his parents. Marks wife drives home and, pulls into the driveway and opens the garage door. The door opens and there, in the middle of the garage mark, hanging there, he killed himself. This man that everyone loved, this man who didn't have any enemies, killed himself. I have not told this story to anyone on here because it is what you call a family matter but, I just thought I would share.


I still have the pamphlet from his service.

http://twitpic.com/53b8my

[deadpie]

Anyhow, in my opinion people who think that all people who commit suicide are selfish are sort of douche bags. Why? Because they have this idea that they live higher in life and if they were in that persons situation they would somehow figure a positive way out, which is absolute bullshit. Most of the people who say suicide is selfish also haven't gone through much to even understand a persons position when they're suicidal. Also, notice how I didn't say all, but most.

What really is selfish is people wanting other people to live just because they want them too. It's their life and their body. You don't know what they're going through or what they've gone through. Don't try to act like you could ever understand it either.

[slappy]

What the problem is, people who have problems dot tell anyone. The people who love them don't know.

[Magus]

What the problem is, people who have problems dot tell anyone. The people who love them don't know.Does it matter, really? If people have problems that doesn't tell anyone? Do you think they care if people who love them don't know? Do you think he knows there are people who love them? I am pretty sure people on that level of depression thinks that no one likes her or him, why should he or she lives on?

I am sure that he doesn't care about people who love him - because actually know one give a fuck for one another. What's the purpose of life to begin with? Nothing.

Life is just a delusion. A false hope. A wishful thought.

[slappy]

Does it matter, really? If people have problems that doesn't tell anyone? Do you think they care if people who love them don't know? Do you think he knows there are people who love them? I am pretty sure people on that level of depression thinks that no one likes her or him, why should he or she lives on?

I am sure that he doesn't care about people who love him - because actually know one give a fuck for one another. What's the purpose of life to begin with? Nothing.

Life is just a delusion. A false hope. A wishful thought.



Well, like I said above about my friend mark, everyone loved him he had no enimies.

[Magus]

Well, like I said above about my friend mark, everyone loved him he had no enimies.Like I said above about why people suicide - it's not because people had no love - it's just there is no purpose to live. Why don't you get this?

[slappy]

No purpose to live?
That man had every reason to live. You don't understand this concept. He loved everyone everyone loved him. He had problems that he wasn't telling anyone what was wrong. You think telling people about there problems makes no difference. Apparently you think when someone kills themselves the will be absolutly no one who cares. That is completely wrong. That was the beginning of the worst time in my life, the same day my grandfather had a heart attack and one of my cousins went missing, all in that same day. Eventually, they found my cousin but I went into a deep depression and I thought of killing myself. I didn't because I told people about my problems and my depression went away eventually, my grandfather ended up dying just a few months later. That was the worst time in my life. You say talking to people doesn't help. Well you are dead wrong. I wouldn't be here if it where not for me talking to people about what was wrong.

[deadpie]

No purpose to live?
That man had every reason to live.

How do you know? How do you not know if there was something really going on that lead him to it? Is it really your business?


You don't understand this concept. He loved everyone everyone loved him.

Loving people kill themselves too. Is that a surprise? For some people it's hard for them to let go with suicide too, but suicide isn't about them, it's just saying fuck everything.

He had problems that he wasn't telling anyone what was wrong. You think telling people about there problems makes no difference. Apparently you think when someone kills themselves the will be absolutly no one who cares.

Sure people might care, but it doesn't matter. People are going to do what they want whether you like it or not. In fact, don't you find it insulting to be calling out on that man that killed himself by calling him selfish? Do you not feel rude or mean in any way saying that? It's like spitting on his grave.


That is completely wrong. That was the beginning of the worst time in my life, the same day my grandfather had a heart attack and one of my cousins went missing, all in that same day.

This isn't even a debate anymore. You're going on about your personal life which really isn't relevant to the morality of suicide on whether or not it's selfish.

You say talking to people doesn't help. Well you are dead wrong. I wouldn't be here if it where not for me talking to people about what was wrong.

Lol. Talking to people can also lead to more problems. Not everyone has the guts to open up and talk about their problems. Oh, I guess you should BLAME them for that too? Geez. Some people don't know how to live a good life and just can't.

You know, people like Jeffrey Dahmer where there depression lead them to fucking and eating corpses. There's no turning back for some people. Really. You don't get that. He was going to kill himself, but some random dude in his institution killed him first.

Not everyone wants to open up because they're scared and don't want to make more problems.

Well, would it still be selfish if you killed yourself over a bunch of people? I mean, your thinking about them so that's an act of thinking about others, than causing the end of life. Who's to blame there? Like the case of gay bullying. That works really well as an example. Sure, after high school the person could survive and all that shit, but some people literally can't take it. They don't know how to deal with that much shit.

Same with the homeless guy with a dead family and no education.

Same with the girl who's father raped her and then the parents divorced and never spoke of it again, but the girl still remembers every bit of it.

There's things in people's lives they don't know how to get over. This is there solution. It's not a good one and it's sad, but you can't judge them for what they've done. And it's selfish to ask for them to stay alive for your own personal needs AKA having someone there for you to talk to when you're bored. Some people have literally tried everything and it just doesn't work for them. It's so hard to understand unless you've been in that position of hitting rock bottom with no rope to pick you back up.

[Forest Rose]

I don't think that suicide is selfish and cowardly, however I do think that it's really sad, and that we should do as much as possible to try and prevent it. This is partly because sometimes people who commit suicide don't really want to die- they just feel like they can't live anymore. Lots of people who have attempted and failed to kill themselves have said they are glad they're still alive.

Having said that I've been suicidal before and attempted suicide, so I understand what it's like to be in that situation and how it feels like the only way. I can understand people who may have suicidal thoughts and therefore don't think they are cowardly or selfish and I don't judge them negatively, but I do think that suicide is just as sad as any other death and should be prevented as much as possible, just like any other death.

[slappy]

How do you know? How do you not know if there was something really going on that lead him to it? Is it really your business?




Loving people kill themselves too. Is that a surprise? For some people it's hard for them to let go with suicide too, but suicide isn't about them, it's just saying fuck everything.



Sure people might care, but it doesn't matter. People are going to do what they want whether you like it or not. In fact, don't you find it insulting to be calling out on that man that killed himself by calling him selfish? Do you not feel rude or mean in any way saying that? It's like spitting on his grave.




This isn't even a debate anymore. You're going on about your personal life which really isn't relevant to the morality of suicide on whether or not it's selfish.



Lol. Talking to people can also lead to more problems. Not everyone has the guts to open up and talk about their problems. Oh, I guess you should BLAME them for that too? Geez. Some people don't know how to live a good life and just can't.

You know, people like Jeffrey Dahmer where there depression lead them to fucking and eating corpses. There's no turning back for some people. Really. You don't get that. He was going to kill himself, but some random dude in his institution killed him first.

Not everyone wants to open up because they're scared and don't want to make more problems.

Well, would it still be selfish if you killed yourself over a bunch of people? I mean, your thinking about them so that's an act of thinking about others, than causing the end of life. Who's to blame there? Like the case of gay bullying. That works really well as an example. Sure, after high school the person could survive and all that shit, but some people literally can't take it. They don't know how to deal with that much shit.

Same with the homeless guy with a dead family and no education.

Same with the girl who's father raped her and then the parents divorced and never spoke of it again, but the girl still remembers every bit of it.

There's things in people's lives they don't know how to get over. This is there solution. It's not a good one and it's sad, but you can't judge them for what they've done. And it's selfish to ask for them to stay alive for your own personal needs AKA having someone there for you to talk to when you're bored. Some people have literally tried everything and it just doesn't work for them. It's so hard to understand unless you've been in that position of hitting rock bottom with no rope to pick you back up.




Hahaha
You're trying to make life sound SO dramatic
It's not that dramatic, life is what you make. If you're depressed and you wanna kill yourself, you probably have a big part in your depression. People try and make there life so dramatic and so loud that they actually believe that there is nothing they can do about it. Yea, I believe than in the unlikely circumstance that you have aids and your family is dead and no one likes you and you're just gonna die anyway, yea suicide would be a feasible option but if you have problems that you can fix than get the fuck over it and fix your life, because complaining is expectable to a point, but there comes a time when you have to stop complaining and fix your damn problems because no one is gonna fix them for you.

[BeChillandRelax]

You know why it's wrong? No, obviously you don't. But regardless, people who committ suicide aren't just doing it for the hell of it. They are mentally ill. And those who say that they'll never be happy again, think again. I personally know that depression and suicidal thoughts can be beaten. I tried to OD, but I ended up just throwing up a whole lot. I told everyone I had a really bad stomachache, because I was a coward. After I gained enough courage and will to realize that I needed help, I told my parents that I was mentally sick and needed to see a doctor. A year later, I'm back, and I'm bigger and better. If you don't have the decency to solve your own damn problems, then I have no pity for you. Darwin said it best, it's survival of the fittest. That includes mentally fit too. People who committ suicide are not selfish; they are stupid, ignorant, rash, and weak. I was all those things. But I conquered my problems, and anyone can do it. It just depends on how much will power you have.

“To run away from trouble is a form of cowardice and, while it is true that the suicide braves death, he does it not for some noble object but to escape some ill.” -Aristotle

[deadpie]

Yea, I believe than in the unlikely circumstance that you have aids and your family is dead and no one likes you and you're just gonna die anyway, yea suicide would be a feasible option

My point has been proven now. It's no different then people who say they're against suicide, but wouldn't mind a rapist or murderer killing themselves. You're either ok with the fact of suicide for everyone or you're against suicide in general for everyone. You shouldn't make 'exceptions' for who can kill themselves and who can't. That's stupid.

And I'm not trying to make life more dramatic. Shit happens. Wake up.

but if you have problems that you can fix than get the fuck over it and fix your life

Seriously why are you even here on this forum? This entire place is of people that are trying to fix their lives, problems, and get over things and most of these people don't just get over things with a snap of the finger.

Anyone that literally thinks serious problems can be solved in a mere second is a complete fucking nimrod. A rape victim with PTSD doesn't just wake up one day and say, "I'm not going to have PTSD anymore".


fix your damn problems because no one is gonna fix them for you.

So technically this site is completely useless and nobody here is attempting to help anyone. You're ten times as nihilistic and misanthropic as I am buddy. That's hardcore. I never thought I'd meet a person so negative.



You know why it's wrong? No, obviously you don't. But regardless, people who committ suicide aren't just doing it for the hell of it. They are mentally ill. And those who say that they'll never be happy again, think again. I personally know that depression and suicidal thoughts can be beaten. I tried to OD, but I ended up just throwing up a whole lot. I told everyone I had a really bad stomachache, because I was a coward. After I gained enough courage and will to realize that I needed help, I told my parents that I was mentally sick and needed to see a doctor. A year later, I'm back, and I'm bigger and better. If you don't have the decency to solve your own damn problems, then I have no pity for you. Darwin said it best, it's survival of the fittest. That includes mentally fit too. People who committ suicide are not selfish; they are stupid, ignorant, rash, and weak. I was all those things. But I conquered my problems, and anyone can do it. It just depends on how much will power you have.

Congratulations on getting over everything and reminding everyone that hasn't that they're weak, stupid, and cowards while you're stronger than everyone else. Also, good job going to google searching up quotes on suicide and picking the one with the philosopher who's most recognized. Har har har.

You think you've gotten better and grown out of it. You haven't. That so called stupid part of you will always be there. Just like when an alcoholic gets sober. They're still alcoholics and can easily go back to drinking heavy.

Also, a problem with survival of the fittest is that it's completely selfish. Sure, I'm all for putting yourself first among other people, but when you literally feel like you don't have the decency to help anyone or even give the slightest shit about anyone's feelings, then you are no better than them. A strong person can help themself and others around them. That's a good positive moral to stand by. The golden rule too; treat others the way you would want to be treated. You have to be there to help people that are down this low wanting to kill themselves. It's a sign of respect, commitment, and being a damn fucking human. That's what makes our race so fucking brilliant. Yet some of us seem to piss all over that idea.

[slappy]

My point has been proven now. It's no different then people who say they're against suicide, but wouldn't mind a rapist or murderer killing themselves. You're either ok with the fact of suicide for everyone or you're against suicide in general for everyone. You shouldn't make 'exceptions' for who can kill themselves and who can't. That's stupid.

And I'm not trying to make life more dramatic. Shit happens. Wake up.



Seriously why are you even here on this forum? This entire place is of people that are trying to fix their lives, problems, and get over things and most of these people don't just get over things with a snap of the finger.

Anyone that literally thinks serious problems can be solved in a mere second is a complete fucking nimrod. A rape victim with PTSD doesn't just wake up one day and say, "I'm not going to have PTSD anymore".




So technically this site is completely useless and nobody here is attempting to help anyone. You're ten times as nihilistic and misanthropic as I am buddy. That's hardcore. I never thought I'd meet a person so negative.





Congratulations on getting over everything and reminding everyone that hasn't that they're weak, stupid, and cowards while you're stronger than everyone else. Also, good job going to google searching up quotes on suicide and picking the one with the philosopher who's most recognized. Har har har.

You think you've gotten better and grown out of it. You haven't. That so called stupid part of you will always be there. Just like when an alcoholic gets sober. They're still alcoholics and can easily go back to drinking heavy.

Also, a problem with survival of the fittest is that it's completely selfish. Sure, I'm all for putting yourself first among other people, but when you literally feel like you don't have the decency to help anyone or even give the slightest shit about anyone's feelings, then you are no better than them. A strong person can help themself and others around them. That's a good positive moral to stand by. The golden rule too; treat others the way you would want to be treated. You have to be there to help people that are down this low wanting to kill themselves. It's a sign of respect, commitment, and being a damn fucking human. That's what makes our race so fucking brilliant. Yet some of us seem to piss all over that idea.







Stop complaining, you even said yourself that talking doesn't help so take your hypocrisy elsewhere

[deadpie]

Stop complaining, you even said yourself that talking doesn't help so take your hypocrisy elsewhere

If you have nothing to debate or useful to say then get out of this thread.

[Scarface]

Stop complaining, you even said yourself that talking doesn't help so take your hypocrisy elsewhere

Dude you need to calm down. First of all if you're not even going to respond to him with a reasonable argument other than some lame excuse for words for such a very serious subject then don't post. A serious topic like this, needs serious discussions and if you cannot respect that then leave the thread. He's not complaining, he's debating with you and the way you're putting things so arrogantly is only making you look ignorant and more so annoying with everyone trying to explain this topic to you, you refuse to understand or take any points into consideration. Again, if you cannot take the thread seriously then get out.

[slappy]

I said

I think suicide is preventable

You said I was wrong and I should stop posting

I said why I believe what I said

You keep attacking me

Now, grow up and ask me a real question instead of bull shitting around the topic.

[deadpie]

I said

I think suicide is preventable

I never said suicide isn't preventable. I said that there's reasons people do what they do and it's not a selfish act at all times.

You said I was wrong and I should stop posting

Because you're not debating, but trying to start a fight with me.

Now, grow up and ask me a real question instead of bull shitting around the topic.

Are you calling my long deconstruction of a post on your reply a few posts back bullshitting around? Wow. The way I see it that post I made is my most honest post I've made on this forum and I take what I said to heart more than anything else. Those words are seriously how I feel and they're allot more rational and thought provoking then anything you've said in this entire thread, because all you've said is "you're right I'm wrong stop hurting my feelings" and that isn't a debate.

[Scarface]

This ends now, if the fighting doesn't end it's getting locked.

[MadManWithaBox]

Of course suicide is preventable. But it's not always going to be. It isn't selfish. From experience, people get desperate. It's the only way they can think of to end it. I agree with deadpie, you're saying we all play part in our own depression and everyone helps everyone else. That is rubbish frankly.

[Bimmerhead]

I will start by saying I haven't read everyones post in great detail so if I say whats already been said then my bad.
My personal belief is that suicide should be legal in some cases. For example my grandmother passed away last week from a long and painful battle with lung cancer. For the last year she has been bed ridden and her quality of life was by no means good. In her case when she was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer she should have had the option to end her life to spare her self from a long and miserable death. If given the same circumstances would you be so fast to turn suicide down? Then there are other cases.
For example teenage depression that sometimes leads to them thinking that life isnt worth it anymore. I was one of these teens once. In my case it took some diagnoses to recognize that I had various problems with depression and I received the help I needed. My thought process was that there was no point in going on when really I had tunnel vision. I could only see the problems in my life and not the good. In this case legal suicide should never be an option. There are ways to cope with depression whether it be medication therapy or just finding an escape from the burdens of life. Ending ones own life is something to be taken seriously and in the end not the right path for most. But there are some with extenuating circumstances like my nana that would benefit greatly from ending ones own existence on their own terms.

[MadManWithaBox]

But then, how'd you judge what is and isn't legal suicide? Who gets that power? Who has the right to give that power?

[Bimmerhead]

But then, how'd you judge what is and isn't legal suicide? Who gets that power? Who has the right to give that power?

Thats a very good point and probably the core reason why suicide would never be "legal" in the sense of the word.

[Death]

Thats a very good point and probably the core reason why suicide would never be "legal" in the sense of the word.

Did you hear about that case with the man whose body was completely and utterly disabled who had to be kept alive using a machine? He had absolutely no quality of life whatsoever. If he were physically capable of suicide, would doing so (given that his family supported the idea of mercy-killing him on his request which he had to use a machine attatched to his head to give) have been wrong? Would even assisted suicide be wrong here? Remember, he had quite literally no reason to live.

[MadManWithaBox]

But cases like that would be the exception to such a rule.

[RoseyCadaver]

Did you hear about that case with the man whose body was completely and utterly disabled who had to be kept alive using a machine? He had absolutely no quality of life whatsoever. If he were physically capable of suicide, would doing so (given that his family supported the idea of mercy-killing him on his request which he had to use a machine attached to his head to give) have been wrong? Would even assisted suicide be wrong here? Remember, he had quite literally no reason to live.

Well taking him off that machine isn't suicide,if he requested it ,it wouldn't really be suicide,he is just taking off a machine that helps him live to be turned off.I'm sure he'll die soon after but it's not like he is jumping off a building or anything.Plus a bunch of religions ik,especially Catholics,they don't see it as suicide.Injecting a poison inside him (euthanasia)and asking for it,that would destroy his body would be suicide.

[Death]

But cases like that would be the exception to such a rule.

Except it wasn't.

Well taking him off that machine isn't suicide,if he requested it ,it wouldn't really be suicide,he is just taking off a machine that helps him live to be turned off.I'm sure he'll die soon after but it's not like he is jumping off a building or anything.Plus a bunch of religions ik,especially Catholics,they don't see it as suicide.Injecting a poison inside him (euthanasia)and asking for it,that would destroy his body would be suicide.

You misunderstand (or I gave you the wrong idea); the machine wasn't keeping him alive since he was able to do so anyway. The machine's purpose was simply to allow him to communicate with others.

[The light]

commiting suicide is selfish, when a person takes their own life they are thinking only about themselves as if it wouldnt effect anyone else. but it does just imagine if your best friend killed themself, would you just say "well its their choise im glad that they had the independace to make that decition". also killing yourself is just giving up on life, its like your at the olympics in the 200m sprint and your not coming first you dont just stop running, of course you finish the race.

[BrokenXPaperXDolls]

commiting suicide is selfish, when a person takes their own life they are thinking only about themselves as if it wouldnt effect anyone else. but it does just imagine if your best friend killed themself, would you just say "well its their choise im glad that they had the independace to make that decition". also killing yourself is just giving up on life, its like your at the olympics in the 200m sprint and your not coming first you dont just stop running, of course you finish the race.

I have to disagree, as being someone who has experiance with this.

If my best friend killed themselves i would be sad that they ended up in a position where they found that suicide was the only option for them. no one who beleives that their only answer is commiting suicide does it to be spitefull and selfish. there are many reasons why people commit suicide and i strongly doubt that they do it because "they are only thinking about themselves as if it wouldnt effect anyone else", as you seem to think.

[Continuum]

commiting suicide is selfish, when a person takes their own life they are thinking only about themselves as if it wouldnt effect anyone else. but it does just imagine if your best friend killed themself, would you just say "well its their choise im glad that they had the independace to make that decition". also killing yourself is just giving up on life, its like your at the olympics in the 200m sprint and your not coming first you dont just stop running, of course you finish the race.

You really haven't read the whole thread, didn't you? There are a number of things that push a human to commit suicide. That includes the loss of value of life, the loss of purpose, the meaning in life, and others. It doesn't mean they could think straight for the duration of their psychological phase. They mostly won't care if it's Selfish or not. You really need to understand how a suicidal person thinks. It's either they may, or may not care for pleas to spare their lives. It's because their psychological state tells them that there isn't a way out, That there isn't any "Finish Line" to all their supposed suffering. Likewise to Deadpie described, it's telling everything to Fuck it. Even if their was a solution that they could take other than suicide, they are deluded enough that they think suicide is the only option in ending it.

[Jawbreaker]

If it's selfish to terminate your own life, it is also selfish to force someone to stay alive for your own personal and emotional comfort. Assuming that the person wants to kill themselves because of a life of misery, then forcing them to stay alive is akin to forcing them to suffer. How is that not selfish?

I also don't understand how it's "cowardly," since we're biologically hardwired to cling unto life. Making the decision to terminate your own life out of your own volition takes a lot of nerve.

As to it leading to grief from the people you leave behind: can't the same be said of someone who wishes to withdraw from society or become a hermit? I'd also like to point out that Jesus, one of the West's most iconic figures, left behind his family to do what he felt was right. Now, I know suicide isn't part of the Christian doctrine but since I'm dealing with the argument that it causes emotional pain, we need look no further than religion were such acts are praised as heroic.

All in all, the only two cases against suicide (disregarding social contracts) that I can see working is that being suicidal is usually just a temporary phase and thus, one should not act upon it just because at one point or another they feel like they want to die. For the most part, though, our own biological need to stay alive ensures this. The other argument is that there are some people that are seriously emotionally or mentally ill and just need proper treatment, and thus, to not "force" them into therapy may be doing them more harm than good.

At the end of the day, I can't really go either way, though I certainly won't judge someone who commits suicide or decides that living is not worth it (unless it's for trivial reasons and out of hyperbolic attention-seeking).

[RoseyCadaver]

You misunderstand (or I gave you the wrong idea); the machine wasn't keeping him alive since he was able to do so anyway. The machine's purpose was simply to allow him to communicate with others.

Oh I understand.Well in my eyes,I could understand him doing that.I mean there is no real reason for me(if I was him)except take up space and use valuable resources which someone could be using.Thats a tragedy for someone to be that bad of living state:(.If I ever have an accident ;I wouldn't want to be kept on a machine.

[Charlotte93]

Suicide is in my opinion selfish, thats the only reason why i havent commited suicide yet. I mean think about it, Suicide is ilegal so if you take your oun life you could cause someone to haveto pay money out of there pocket to bury or cremate you since insurance agences don't pay for funerals. Also you would be causing hart ake and and strane on all the people who love you. So while it may be the pirsons oun choice to end there oun life it would be selfish because they arn't thinking about the conciquences for other people.

[Continuum]

Suicide is ilegal so if you take your oun life you could cause someone to haveto pay money out of there pocket to bury or cremate you since insurance agences don't pay for funerals.

Why care if it's illegal, when you're dead? Laws do not concern the dead. Have a look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation), if you want. Catholic churches won't even provide necrological services for your decomposing cadaver because you sinned, and you won't even know it. It's your lifeless, putrid shell! They'll have to bury it sooner or later. And again, you wont care anyway.

[Korashk]

I mean think about it, Suicide is ilegal
Nope.

[RoseyCadaver]

If it's selfish to terminate your own life, it is also selfish to force someone to stay alive for your own personal and emotional comfort.

Right on!I think that there might be something wrong with a person who does want to terminate their life,but someone did say look at some animals who get depressed and won't even eat.I work in the live stock of ornamental fish,and some fish if put in an aquarium with starve itself to death or keep hitting the glass.

[Noooooooooo]

Suicide is in my opinion selfish, thats the only reason why i havent commited suicide yet. I mean think about it, Suicide is ilegal so if you take your oun life you could cause someone to haveto pay money out of there pocket to bury or cremate you since insurance agences don't pay for funerals. Also you would be causing hart ake and and strane on all the people who love you. So while it may be the pirsons oun choice to end there oun life it would be selfish because they arn't thinking about the conciquences for other people.

If I was planning to suicide I wouldn't really fucking care for someone paying money for my funeral.
Won't actually give a shit. I just asked a suicide friend if he would care for his parents for paying so much money for a funeral and he said this:

DD=sayTR=B1{MW2}: lol
DD=sayTR=B1{MW2}: nope

He didn't even care what would happen to his body after he dies...
Most people don't even care if they would hurt their family's or friends by suiciding.

Suicide is ilegal

WRONG! The law says so.
What you are saying is that people who have attempted suicide would go to jail? What the F?!
It is not illegal, and it hasn't been illegal for many years. People who try top harm themselves are committed for mental treatment. They don't get "punished" they get treated.
In 1961 they removed suicide as a crime and ceased to be a crime. Thought there are still offences in aidding/abetting/assisting the suicide or attempted suicide of another.

[Genghis Khan]

The main problem comes with the people it affects. There are two cases. One is how you committing suicide will have an obviously negative impact on those that love you, and by ending your own life you'll possibly be changing their lives if not bringing some form of emotional harm to them. In that sense it is arguably selfish.

Another case is when the entire society is facing some mutual pressure that drives people to suicide. Take India as an example. The education system puts a fuck lot of pressure on children, with even the middle class families the point is, you either do well or end up a sweeper making barely enough money to live in a small room. If you commit suicide because you can't handle the pressure it could indirectly convince others who find this pressure highly inconvenient to do something along those lines and this in turn, acts as a domino effect on society.

I guess my argument here is more towards pro-life but.. it's a really difficult question for me or anyone to answer, I'm quite opinionated in most cases and do know myself in most areas but I'm afraid here I just don't know where I stand.

[Infidelitas]

I am on both sides of the fence. The other night, at around 11.30pm, I got into my car, half intending to drive it into a tree going 100km/h. I never did it because A) I couldn't do it to my parents and B) My car has airbags, which would have prevented my death, and caused me prolonged pain.

I am on both sides, because my Mum and Dad know whats its like to have a suicidal child (My sister, who has made many attempts), what what they went through when that happened. But I also feel that if I did go and top myself, I wouldnt feel guilty for it, because I am dead, and moving on to the next life, or what ever happens.

I do agree that there are a lot of homeless people, without family, whom no one would care about, or miss, or anyone would notice that they are missing. I do believe that its your life, and no one else can do jack shit if you do commit suicide.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, but those are my feelings.