Heaven

[Spook]

For those of certain religion, what do you think heaven is like?

Alot of people have undergone tests in which they died then were brought back to light. They described an overwhelming sense of peace and calm, and a glowing light at the end of a tunnel.

I imagine that heaven is a place which is created into an area you love, a memory from your life. You can build your everlasting home from the remnants of your mind, and live forever in your realm of memories. You can visit all of your relatives in their realms, and see all the ones you love. There is a huge golden palace with a stain glass rainbow roof and a soft flowing waterfall in my realm. I have giant dollhouses with fake stuff I can walk into as a doll, and I have a huge ocean all my own, with tropical fish, and underwater palaces. I have a huge silver waterslide that goes into the ocean. That's what my realm would look like. Above heaven god lives surrounded by soft whispy clouds, and he calls to the angels one by one to watch over people and do deeds, and help him pour out the rain.

GIANT DOLLHOUSES! YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT! :D

That's what I think heaven is like.

What about you? :yes:

[Noooooooooo]

Road with diamond and golds.
No wars, and peace for eternity.
Eternal communion with God.
Beautiful with no human language could ever describe.
From the Bible. ^

I don't really have anything to say about Heaven.

I'd rather chose Hell.

About Hell...

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17
YOU will see HELL. . .
YOU will smell HELL. . .
YOU will breathe HELL. . .
YOU will hear HELL. . .
YOU will feel HELL. . .
YOU WILL BE HELL. . .

I think it's the sun! Do you know how hot that baby is?

I watched a special on NatGeo about the Sun, it was amazing! I thought that this would be a good Hell.

[Spook]

The sun is approximately 15 million degrees Celsius or 27 million degrees Farenheit at the core. People would be in alot of pain up there. :P

YOU will see HELL. . .
YOU will smell HELL. . .
YOU will breathe HELL. . .
YOU will hear HELL. . .
YOU will feel HELL. . .
YOU WILL BE HELL. . .
But...Can you taste it? ;)

[Noooooooooo]

But...Can you taste it? ;)

Is this some sort of a riddle? Lol.


A little off-topic here.


About Heaven- To gain access to Haeven you have to be perfect! - The Bible says it.
No one gets to heaven by being good enough. In fact being good enough isnt enough. There are no good people. Obviously that is why they included "Jesus".
Only way to heaven is through Jesus...He lived the perfect life for us and died for our sins. Going to heaven isnt based on what we do...but on what Jesus did.

[deadpie]

I can imagine that heaven would be extremely boring.

[UnknownError]

In my head its a wooden box under some dirt OR a wooden box being burned by flames. :3

[deadpie]

In my head its a wooden box under some dirt OR a wooden box being burned by flames. :3

That's probably the best description/interpretation I've ever heard in my entire life. Not even trolling.

--------------------------------

EDIT:


Alot of people have undergone tests in which they died then were brought back to light. They described an overwhelming sense of peace and calm, and a glowing light at the end of a tunnel.


For a better understanding on what exactly they're experiencing, I did a debate with someone on this here (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=998731#post998731). Or if you don't want to click the link I'll just point out the big facts. The explanation to near death experiences is just a simple burst of carbon dioxide (Source) (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100408-near-death-experiences-blood-carbon-dioxide/). And this is also coming from someone who's been dead before. Not trying to be rude or anything, but I just want you to know the truth about things.

[Kaius]

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17
YOU will see HELL. . .
YOU will smell HELL. . .
YOU will breathe HELL. . .
YOU will hear HELL. . .
YOU will feel HELL. . .
YOU WILL BE HELL. . .

By that definition i'm in hell already, so i'm gonna be going nowhere except further under the soil

[Perseus]

In all honesty, a giant white ass place. I know. Creative.

[Iceman]

TWPR :arrow: ROTW

[RoseyCadaver]

I have no idea,I'm sure it's mega happiness and peace,I doubt that most people go to a "hell".When I go there I tell you :) what heaven is like(or hell,or temporary purgatory lol)!

[Noooooooooo]

By that definition i'm in hell already, so i'm gonna be going nowhere except further under the soil


You and me both.

TBH we create our own hell, here on earth, sometimes and all we can do is learn from it and go on.
Nobody has not gone through something very negative, hurtful and crushing in their lifetime.

I doubt that most people go to a "hell".

WRONG! Lol. The Bible says it. :P

Matthew 7:13-14: "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Luke 13:24 - "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able."

[Tristin.]

TBH we create our own hell, here on earth, sometimes and all we can do is learn from it and go on.
Nobody has not gone through something very negative, hurtful and crushing in their lifetime.

how do we not know if earth is the hell that is spoken of? there is suffering, pain and turmoil. we can see it, breath it, smell, hear and feel it. we can not escape earth at present, so how do we know this is not hell?

as to what i believe heaven is, i believe it is a place of uncomparable beauty. where everyone you have ever loved who has died is waiting for you. where second chances are everywhere. You live your life again, but better. it is as if heaven is the real world and this is but a waiting room. there is no pain no suffering, only bliss and joy. where you can be whatever you wanted to be in this life but were unable, where there is no bias, no predjudice, no discrimination, only perfet perfection. scattered with palaces of white and gold. an oasis of love.
an absoloute heaven

btw, im not religious, but i do believe in a heaven

[deadpie]

WRONG! Lol. The Bible says it. :P

YES! My favorite proof! "The Bible is true because it says so!" IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT!

Well guess what? I the Qur'an is true because it says so. Tanakh is true because it says so. Fuckin' Dianetics is true because it says so! Book of Shadows is true because it says so! Vedas is true because it says so!

See how this fake logic can be easily proven as the most useless point in terms of religion ever?

-----------------------------------------

Now that this is a debate, I guess I can pull a rabbit out of my top hat and get people point fingers and grinding their teeth.


Let's analyze WHY people mainly believe in heaven...


They're scared of the possibility of nothingness or the unknown, also known as death itself.
They don't want to be punished for stupid shit
After a near death experience they spontaneously come to the conclusion Jesus gives a shit and wants them to live a few more years before having another stroke and dying.
Nobody wants to be alone in all this shit
It's the easy answer to a question far more complicated than their understanding.
They don't want to be wrong


Please, DO NOT ignore this part. You don't have to read anything else I've written on this entire site, but just read this part humans.


Now let's destroy the pointless dumb meaning of eternity. So Hell is supposed to worse than life on Earth and Heaven is supposed to be better than life on Earth. But if everything is infinite, doesn't that mean you will eventually get 'used to' what you're doing, just like life on this planet for most people.

Hell = Shit really fucking sucks, but I'm sure after a few billion years the pain wouldn't be as bad as it was before.
Earth = Meh level of Coolness.
Heaven = So fucking awesome motherfucker than progresses to 'I guess this alright' to this isn't that much different than Earth now to the point of life not being so interesting anymore.

Eternity negates things; good and bad.

There's no point to holy scriptures without Heaven and Hell because where would fear fit? Fear is the biggest roleplay in religion. Fear over rules the 'positive' things that faith is supposed to give.


Then I will add the simple logic that God cannot be fair because infinite torture with no redemption or lesson learned is extremely stupid, pointless, useless, and sick. Well, unless those wrong morals are actually the right morals according to God, which would mean killing is good even though it's obviously wrong.

[Noooooooooo]

Fear is the biggest roleplay in religion. Fear over rules the 'positive' things that faith is supposed to give.




Fear definitely has something to do with how religion operates, but I doubt that that's how religion originally came about.
Religion probably first got started by people asking the age-old question: "how did we get here?" The only logical explanation at the time was that there was some kind of sky god(s) that created us, along with everything else. Their next thought was "how do we keep these all-powerful beings from becoming angry and killing us all?" that's when the fear factor kicked in. People started kissing omniscient *** in order to avoid being destroyed by their god(s). Of course, fear is in a lot of forms in religion.
So although fear might not be one of the things that got religion going, it is definitely one of the main things that has kept it alive for so long.

[deadpie]

Fear definitely has something to do with how religion operates, but I doubt that that's how religion originally came about.
Religion probably first got started by people asking the age-old question: "how did we get here?" The only logical explanation at the time was that there was some kind of sky god(s) that created us, along with everything else. Their next thought was "how do we keep these all-powerful beings from becoming angry and killing us all?" that's when the fear factor kicked in. People started kissing omniscient *** in order to avoid being destroyed by their god(s). Of course, fear is in a lot of forms in religion.
So although fear might not be one of the things that got religion going, it is definitely one of the main things that has kept it alive for so long.

So your saying we came up with this idea of sky Gods as the reason we're alive, but we need to make sure we please the God we created so our own creation doesn't get angry at us and send us to the hell we thought up. We created our own fear. We're to blame for all of it.

[Noooooooooo]

So your saying we came up with this idea of sky Gods as the reason we're alive, but we need to make sure we please the God we created so our own creation doesn't get angry at us and send us to the hell we thought up. We created our own fear. We're to blame for all of it.

I was adding how fear started in early religion.
And it is true- We created our own fear.

[deadpie]

I was adding how fear started in early religion.

Well yeah. Fear has always been a key factor and it's been there from the start because it's what the scriptures teach.

Fear definitely has something to do with how religion operates, but I doubt that that's how religion originally came about.

How so then? From how I see think man is what made religion, so yes, fear is a factor or it was just a man tripping on acid who happened to have some ink and some paper with him.


Also, now people are going to ignore my gigantic point I was originally trying to make, so I'm going to go stick my head in the sand and leave this thread until something hasn't already been said a million times before (just like every other religion thread) begins.

[Death]

Whatever Heaven is, Hell will probably be more to my tastes. As much of an arsehole Satan might be, at least he probably won't graphically kill me over and over (assuming immortality) for being different.

[Spook]

Well...there is really no point anymore in arguing about this as none of us have actually died, so we won't know until we do.

There is another belief...people who don't believe that Jesus is the son of god, and their savior- or if they have doubts, will be able to decide at the gates of heaven, where Jesus will come to greet them.

So yeah, we really won't know the truth about heaven, hell, or living in the cold ground until we are gone for good- and dead people can't tell secrets. ;)

@Deadpie, very logical explanation of the light...I never thought of that. :/

But really nothing that was said here phased my religious beliefs, not that it was meant to. :D

[RoseyCadaver]

YES! My favorite proof! "The Bible is true because it says so!" IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT!



They're scared of the possibility of nothingness or the unknown, also known as death itself.
They don't want to be punished for stupid shit
After a near death experience they spontaneously come to the conclusion Jesus gives a shit and wants them to live a few more years before having another stroke and dying.
Nobody wants to be alone in all this shit
It's the easy answer to a question far more complicated than their understanding.
They don't want to be wrong


Please, DO NOT ignore this part. You don't have to read anything else I've written on this entire site, but just read this part humans.


Now let's destroy the pointless dumb meaning of eternity. So Hell is supposed to worse than life on Earth and Heaven is supposed to be better than life on Earth. But if everything is infinite, doesn't that mean you will eventually get 'used to' what you're doing, just like life on this planet for most people.

Hell = Shit really fucking sucks, but I'm sure after a few billion years the pain wouldn't be as bad as it was before.
Earth = Meh level of Coolness.
Heaven = So fucking awesome motherfucker than progresses to 'I guess this alright' to this isn't that much different than Earth now to the point of life not being so interesting anymore.

[.
I agree with you on most of it, especially how some people fear the unknown.Either way I'm happy being in a awesome place or an eternal sleep would be cool.I believe the mind is an ever lasting energy so I think it's always possible for a heaven.My heaven would have to be a place where I'm always being saved,by a girl.It's like the damsel in distress except I'm the damsel xD!

[embers]

Only way to heaven is through Jesus...He lived the perfect life for us and died for our sins. Going to heaven isnt based on what we do...but on what Jesus did.

I don't want to fight dragons to go to heaven. (http://www.cracked.com/article_18948_5-real-deleted-bible-scenes-in-which-jesus-kicks-some-ass.html)

[UnknownError]

WRONG! Lol. The Bible says it. :P

>mfw the bible.

http://forum.catiewayne.com/images/smilies/mouthpalm.png

[Joethegreat1]

"Now let's destroy the pointless dumb meaning of eternity. So Hell is supposed to worse than life on Earth and Heaven is supposed to be better than life on Earth. But if everything is infinite, doesn't that mean you will eventually get 'used to' what you're doing, just like life on this planet for most people. "

I don't agree with you on this. First off, what is eternity? Simply an endless time? It couldn't be. The Roman Catholic theological explanation for Eternity is that it is something more like an extra dimension of time. Imagine if time were a line. Eternity would be something like a cube. Eternity does not equal infinity.

"Hell = Shit really fucking sucks, but I'm sure after a few billion years the pain wouldn't be as bad as it was before.
Earth = Meh level of Coolness.
Heaven = So fucking awesome motherfucker than progresses to 'I guess this alright' to this isn't that much different than Earth now to the point of life not being so interesting anymore.

Eternity negates things; good and bad."

As I said above, eternity cannot negate things as it is not really infinite time.

"There's no point to holy scriptures without Heaven and Hell because where would fear fit? Fear is the biggest roleplay in religion. Fear over rules the 'positive' things that faith is supposed to give."

Really? Then what about the many Catholics that have a firm and undeniable belief that God does exist, salvation can be achieved, and heaven is attainable, even when their lives are shaken to the core with fear. Look at pope John Paul the 2nd. Even after being shot he still held onto faith, and even forgave the assassin that tried to kill him. An attempt at your life is an extremely fearsome thing.


"Then I will add the simple logic that God cannot be fair because infinite torture with no redemption or lesson learned is extremely stupid, pointless, useless, and sick. Well, unless those wrong morals are actually the right morals according to God, which would mean killing is good even though it's obviously wrong."

God does not like sending people to hell. Catholic theology teaches that God is truly ever merciful and loving, so really he does not send people to hell. Rather, the individual chooses hell. But the individual does not make his decision based on where he thinks he should go. He makes the choice based on what he sought after and did in his life. If the individual lusted after someone(man or woman) without regret, for example, and did not repent and make amends for his actions, then he would choose the lust over heaven and eternal happiness with god. Another example would be if an individual objectified another individual in any way, and did not repent and make amends for what he did, then he/she would choose the sexual objectification over heaven.

I hope this cleared up some misconceptions.

"Now let's destroy the pointless dumb meaning of eternity. So Hell is supposed to worse than life on Earth and Heaven is supposed to be better than life on Earth. But if everything is infinite, doesn't that mean you will eventually get 'used to' what you're doing, just like life on this planet for most people. "

I don't agree with you on this. First off, what is eternity? Simply an endless time? It couldn't be. The Roman Catholic theological explanation for Eternity is that it is something more like an extra dimension of time. Imagine if time were a line. Eternity would be something like a cube. Eternity does not equal infinity.

"Hell = Shit really fucking sucks, but I'm sure after a few billion years the pain wouldn't be as bad as it was before.
Earth = Meh level of Coolness.
Heaven = So fucking awesome motherfucker than progresses to 'I guess this alright' to this isn't that much different than Earth now to the point of life not being so interesting anymore.

Eternity negates things; good and bad."

As I said above, eternity cannot negate things as it is not really infinite time.

"There's no point to holy scriptures without Heaven and Hell because where would fear fit? Fear is the biggest roleplay in religion. Fear over rules the 'positive' things that faith is supposed to give."

Really? Then what about the many Catholics that have a firm and undeniable belief that God does exist, salvation can be achieved, and heaven is attainable, even when their lives are shaken to the core with fear. Look at pope John Paul the 2nd. Even after being shot he still held onto faith, and even forgave the assassin that tried to kill him. An attempt at your life is an extremely fearsome thing. My own mother is another example. She has endured countless fearsome encounters, but still holds strong to her faith.


"Then I will add the simple logic that God cannot be fair because infinite torture with no redemption or lesson learned is extremely stupid, pointless, useless, and sick. Well, unless those wrong morals are actually the right morals according to God, which would mean killing is good even though it's obviously wrong."

God does not like sending people to hell. Catholic theology teaches that God is truly ever merciful and loving, so really he does not send people to hell. Rather, the individual chooses hell. But the individual does not make his decision based on where he thinks he should go. He makes the choice based on what he sought after and did in his life. If the individual lusted after someone(man or woman) without regret, for example, and did not repent and make amends for his actions, then he would choose the lust over heaven and eternal happiness with god. Another example would be if an individual objectified another individual in any way, and did not repent and make amends for what he did, then he/she would choose the sexual objectification over heaven.

I hope this cleared up some misconceptions.

(To any moderator:Sorry for double posting. I seem to have problems with my browser.)

Please do not double post---Socko

[deadpie]

I don't agree with you on this. First off, what is eternity? Simply an endless time? It couldn't be.

Eternity is a timescale with no beginning or end.

The Roman Catholic theological explanation for Eternity is that it is something more like an extra dimension of time. Imagine if time were a line. Eternity would be something like a cube. Eternity does not equal infinity.

In terms of shape Infinity and Eternity aren't different at all. The ∞ (infinity) symbol has no beginning or end just like the concept of eternity. Then you have something like The Endless Knot (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/EndlessKnot03d.png/220px-EndlessKnot03d.png) which is meant to represent eternity.



As I said above, eternity cannot negate things as it is not really infinite time.

You miss my point. ANYTHING can be negated in terms of our feelings towards things as people, no matter how long of time. It can be a normal span of one hundred years to a million years. Over time things become less exciting and important. I'm guessing you thought I meant negate time. No, you can't negate eternity because eternity has no start, middle or finish.


Really? Then what about the many Catholics that have a firm and undeniable belief that God does exist, salvation can be achieved, and heaven is attainable, even when their lives are shaken to the core with fear. Look at pope John Paul the 2nd. Even after being shot he still held onto faith, and even forgave the assassin that tried to kill him. An attempt at your life is an extremely fearsome thing. My own mother is another example. She has endured countless fearsome encounters, but still holds strong to her faith.

Well obviously fear of death will always be there for the religious. Lol, I was saying from the beginning fear is what leads people to religion, so obviously if people are religious fear of things aren't going to shatter their beliefs. They still believe that they'll go to Heaven if they do 'good'.

Of course there's the smart people who might realized that after being raped or in case of almost dying that God was never there for them. Who saved the person who's dying? A doctor. Not any higher power.


God does not like sending people to hell.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Peter 3:10

From the looks of it God really likes destruction and chaos. What is he getting out of all of this though? Is there any point to him having to have people worship him? Does he really need an ego boost? I mean, come on - He's God. He can do whatever the hell he wants. He doesn't need a bunch of humans to worship him, then he kills most of them in the end/sends them to hell.

One thing I'm trying to understand is what is the point of sending people to hell in the first place? What's the point to killing people? Does it make a difference at all? Why is it important? I really just don't get it at all. Religion makes no sense to me.

Catholic theology teaches that God is truly ever merciful and loving, so really he does not send people to hell.

Yeah, every religion apparently teaches love and happiness, not the fire, brimstone, and torture after death.


Rather, the individual chooses hell.

Gay people can't choose what sexuality to be. So no. They can't choose if they want to go to hell or not.

Also, who in their right mind would WANT to go to hell? Do you really think people just say, "Hmm, I wouldn't mind going down to the lake of fire sometime soon. I'll go out and kill someone right now!"

Ok, how about an area where people don't teach Christianity, but perhaps Islam. Are you saying they choose to go to Hell if Christians are right even if they didn't know about Christianity?

Expanding onto that thought, what if they're raised being told that Christianity is wrong? This could go for any other religion to.


But the individual does not make his decision based on where he thinks he should go. He makes the choice based on what he sought after and did in his life. If the individual lusted after someone(man or woman) without regret, for example, and did not repent and make amends for his actions, then he would choose the lust over heaven and eternal happiness with god.

Question: WHY DOES GOD GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS? Oh, because he wants people to be 'closer' to him rather then have sex with people without being properly married? Really what is his big deal about all of this? Why does lust even have to be a sin? It's obvious some people can't control lust, right?

Let's say we have someone with Borderline Sadistic Personality Disorder who can't control their lust. There's no particular medication that directly helps this and people like this can't really be accounted for their actions if it's something THEY CANNOT CONTROL. If you cannot control something you shouldn't be accounted for it. Therefor lust being a sin must be bullshit. I mean it's there, but it means nothing. Even in the typical teenage boy like me isn't it hard for some of us not to fap? Well, I guess we're all going to hell, amarite?

Another example would be if an individual objectified another individual in any way, and did not repent and make amends for what he did, then he/she would choose the sexual objectification over heaven.

Are you talking about in the case of rape/sexual abuse? Well, there's reasons why people do those too. In fact, there's a hypothesis called the Cycle Of Violence that has tons of evidence to prove it's true. It's when an abused person ends up abusing someone else later in life. Not saying everyone does that, but it does happen. The earlier the abuse the more people are capable of doing such a thing. It's like the idea is implanted in their head.

Or we could go back to the guy with Sadistic Personality Disorder and you can guess where I could go from there. I'm too lazy to type all that out.

Can they really be accounted for that action too? See, you have to question what leads people to commit these so called sins and when you see there's actual reasons why people do things than those sins don't really mean anything special.

[Joethegreat1]

Eternity is a timescale with no beginning or end.



In terms of shape Infinity and Eternity aren't different at all. The ∞ (infinity) symbol has no beginning or end just like the concept of eternity. Then you have something like The Endless Knot (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/EndlessKnot03d.png/220px-EndlessKnot03d.png) which is meant to represent eternity.

You are using the popular definition of eternity. Eternity is not timescale without beginning or end. Eternity is simply an existence outside of time i.e. something not affected by time. A timescale without beginning or end is sempiternity.



You miss my point. ANYTHING can be negated in terms of our feelings towards things as people, no matter how long of time. It can be a normal span of one hundred years to a million years. Over time things become less exciting and important. I'm guessing you thought I meant negate time. No, you can't negate eternity because eternity has no start, middle or finish.

Eternity has no start, middle or finish simply because it is not influenced by time.



Well obviously fear of death will always be there for the religious. Lol, I was saying from the beginning fear is what leads people to religion, so obviously if people are religious fear of things aren't going to shatter their beliefs. They still believe that they'll go to Heaven if they do 'good'.

Of course there's the smart people who might realized that after being raped or in case of almost dying that God was never there for them. Who saved the person who's dying? A doctor. Not any higher power.

If that is the case, then why does Catholicism teach against fear of death? Death is not an end but rather a beginning, a start for a life in eternal happiness with God. If death is looked upon this way, then it is more like a birth than an end.

And of course a doctor saves the person. God is not a higher power that supposedly heals anyone miraculously when they are raped, hurt, or killed. God heals spiritually, as in he mends damaged or hurt souls. Miracles that heal physically are extensions of spiritual healing.




But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Peter 3:10

From the looks of it God really likes destruction and chaos. What is he getting out of all of this though? Is there any point to him having to have people worship him? Does he really need an ego boost? I mean, come on - He's God. He can do whatever the hell he wants. He doesn't need a bunch of humans to worship him, then he kills most of them in the end/sends them to hell.

It is never said that God causes the destruction and chaos, is it? The day of the lord basically means judgement day, when Heaven and Earth are said to be remade into a "New Heaven" and a "New Earth". For there to be a new heaven and new earth the old heaven and earth must not be present. Also, the destruction may or may not be physical, heaven and earth may be destroyed in a spiritual sense.

One thing I'm trying to understand is what is the point of sending people to hell in the first place? What's the point to killing people? Does it make a difference at all? Why is it important? I really just don't get it at all. Religion makes no sense to me.

God does not send people to hell! People choose hell, based on what they sought after and did willingly and without regret.

Yeah, every religion apparently teaches love and happiness, not the fire, brimstone, and torture after death.

Yes, because all religions are a glimpse at the same God. Some religions have more truth, while others have less truth. For this reason, no religion is truly wrong, just




Gay people can't choose what sexuality to be. So no. They can't choose if they want to go to hell or not.

But being gay does not necessarily send you to hell. Having gay sex and lusting after another man and wishing to use him for pleasure can send you to hell. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."

It also mentions that "Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."




Also, who in their right mind would WANT to go to hell? Do you really think people just say, "Hmm, I wouldn't mind going down to the lake of fire sometime soon. I'll go out and kill someone right now!"

That's the thing, no one is truly in their right mind. Why would people kill, torture, rape, and hurt people if they no that they are damaging not only the people they hurt but also themselves. Why does war exist? Why do some people tolerate genocide? Why do mass murderers kill unexpectedly? Because humans and humanity are crazy. If they weren't crazy, then the world would be perfect. Why do people have pre- or extra-marital sex with people and then completely forget about them? It damages both people extremely, even if they both do not notice the damage being done. What other reason could you explain all the above situations?

Ok, how about an area where people don't teach Christianity, but perhaps Islam. Are you saying they choose to go to Hell if Christians are right even if they didn't know about Christianity?

You choose heaven or hell based on your actions, not whether you are Christian or not. If you are a muslim and believe that you should be able to kill any non-believers simply because they don't believe the same creed that you do, that does not necessarily mean you will go to hell. If thats the only thing that you learned, and you never know different, then God will have mercy on you. All religions teach in one way or another that killing people mercilessly and without repentance is inherently wrong.

Expanding onto that thought, what if they're raised being told that Christianity is wrong? This could go for any other religion to.

See above.

Question: WHY DOES GOD GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS? Oh, because he wants people to be 'closer' to him rather then have sex with people without being properly married? Really what is his big deal about all of this? Why does lust even have to be a sin? It's obvious some people can't control lust, right?

Why does a father give a deal about relationships with his children? Because he loves them and cares for them. Sex is meant for procreation and love, and love comes from God and is God. Proper marriage is a holy union, with emphasis on the word holy. That is to say that man and woman can not really be perfectly joined without God. Christ even says in the Gospel of Matthew

"Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate."

– Matthew 19:4–6; also Mk 10:7–9

God is the creator of the sacred institution of marriage meaning that he and he himself has the only right to perfectly and completely join a man and a woman. Because of this, the 2 ends of marriage, and sex, are 1:For the good of the spouses and 2:For the procreation of children and the creation of a family. A marriage should have at least 1 of the 2 reasons. Sex has the same reasons as marriage, and without both reasons sex falls flat on its face. The Roman Catholic definition of lust is "venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse" The Church also teaches that lust is different from the natural desire for sexual love between a man and a woman.

Let's say we have someone with Borderline Sadistic Personality Disorder who can't control their lust. There's no particular medication that directly helps this and people like this can't really be accounted for their actions if it's something THEY CANNOT CONTROL. If you cannot control something you shouldn't be accounted for it. Therefor lust being a sin must be bullshit. I mean it's there, but it means nothing. Even in the typical teenage boy like me isn't it hard for some of us not to fap? Well, I guess we're all going to hell, amarite?

If they cannot control their actions, then God will have mercy on them. They are not accounted for their sin. But that does not mean that you or any other teenage boy are not accounted for out actions. Of course its hard not to fap! No philosophical or theological scholar ever said that self mastery was easy to attain. Self mastery and restraint is something every conscious and sentient human deals with for the rest of their lives. For those who cannot control their lust because of a physical or mental disorder, they are exempt because they can do nothing to stop themselves, and sometimes they do it against their own will. But those who can control themselves are not exempt.



Are you talking about in the case of rape/sexual abuse? Well, there's reasons why people do those too. In fact, there's a hypothesis called the Cycle Of Violence that has tons of evidence to prove it's true. It's when an abused person ends up abusing someone else later in life. Not saying everyone does that, but it does happen. The earlier the abuse the more people are capable of doing such a thing. It's like the idea is implanted in their head.

Even though there is a tons of evidence to prove it's true doesn't mean it is right. Any member of the chain who is sentient and conscious has the ability to break the cycle, and their lack of breaking it is a minor sin. The major mortal sin is of the person who started the cycle. The idea is implanted in their heads, but they have the choice to ignore it.


Or we could go back to the guy with Sadistic Personality Disorder and you can guess where I could go from there. I'm too lazy to type all that out.

Can they really be accounted for that action too? See, you have to question what leads people to commit these so called sins and when you see there's actual reasons why people do things than those sins don't really mean anything special.

As I have said above, people who cannot control themselves because of a physical and/or mental disorder are exempt from condemnation based on that sin. There are reasons why people commit sins, but the end does not justify the means. If you kill someone to try and save the world then what you are doing is intrinsically wrong, no matter how you look at it. Yet if there is no choice, and you must kill someone to save the whole world, then God will have mercy on you and exempt you from that sin. For other reasons, like you would have sex with someone simply because you get pleasure from it, they are not really good reasons. Why would you have sex with someone if not for the two reasons? Scientifically it doesn't make any sense, as sex is meant for procreation. If you have sex with someone and then refuse to have children, then not only are you denying the philosophical and true love that sex is supposed to impart you are also denying the scientific and physical reason why you would have sex. Then what reason do you have for having sex outside of marriage? The answer is none.

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As for the original question "What do you think heaven is like?" I believe that heaven is an perfect existence with God in Eternity. It is eternal and never ending joy that no human can imagine completely. There will be a form of every and any earthly joy, be it chess, anime, or sex.

[Spook]

Oh lordy. It's getting long again. ^_^

[deadpie]

You are using the popular definition of eternity. Eternity is not timescale without beginning or end. Eternity is simply an existence outside of time i.e. something not affected by time. A timescale without beginning or end is sempiternity.

Is it a problem that I'm going by the most known definition of eternity and not your very own definition? Too bad deal with it and I don't care.

Eternity has no start, middle or finish simply because it is not influenced by time.

Are you still bothered by my definitions not being as good as yours?


If that is the case, then why does Catholicism teach against fear of death? Death is not an end but rather a beginning, a start for a life in eternal happiness with God.

Or it could also be the beginning of total torture beyond imagination. Are you really trying to prove Catholicism right with this? Any other branch of Christianity could say the same thing.

If death is looked upon this way, then it is more like a birth than an end.

How is it a birth if eternity has no beginning or end, like you and I have said? It's simply just being there. Nothing else.

Would you consider it a failed abortion rather than an end in the case of people going to hell?


And of course a doctor saves the person. God is not a higher power that supposedly heals anyone miraculously when they are raped, hurt, or killed. God heals spiritually, as in he mends damaged or hurt souls. Miracles that heal physically are extensions of spiritual healing.

Also known as God doesn't heal or help anyone. Also, because miracles go against scientific and logic, that means you cannot apply it to the scientific method which also means you can't prove miracles exist.

It is never said that God causes the destruction and chaos, is it?

They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. Deuteronomy 32:24

And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. Isaiah 1:28

How can you deny that God causes violence and destruction in The Bible when that is pretty much 1/4 of the entire thing? Are you Christians that much in denial of your own religion?

The day of the lord basically means judgement day, when Heaven and Earth are said to be remade into a "New Heaven" and a "New Earth". For there to be a new heaven and new earth the old heaven and earth must not be present. Also, the destruction may or may not be physical, heaven and earth may be destroyed in a spiritual sense.

A spiritual sense? What does that even mean?

Yes, because all religions are a glimpse at the same God. Some religions have more truth, while others have less truth. For this reason, no religion is truly wrong, just

How can you determine which religions have more truth than the others? Oh I know. You believe in the correct one apparently and the rest are wrong, that's why. That goes nowhere. All religions are wrong by the way, because God doesn't exist.

But being gay does not necessarily send you to hell. Having gay sex and lusting after another man and wishing to use him for pleasure can send you to hell.

What's the fun of being Gay if you can't even have sex? You can't even love the only type of people your aloud to love? Do you know how sick and evil that is? It's like giving a killer a gun and telling him not to shoot anyone.

How is it fair at all?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

Come on dude. You really want to prove your points through Catholicism, where Priests fuck little boys and the Pope tries to keep the rapists safe?


It also mentions that "Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."

Or in other words they should learn to hate their sexuality, become a Christian, and be alone for the rest of their lives because the person they're worshiping hates what they are. That's just sick. How can someone live a life like that?

That's the thing, no one is truly in their right mind. Why would people kill, torture, rape, and hurt people if they no that they are damaging not only the people they hurt but also themselves. Why does war exist? Why do some people tolerate genocide? Why do mass murderers kill unexpectedly? Because humans and humanity are crazy.

No. No. NO! Crazy is your answer to all of this? We have particular reasons to what we do and it doesn't mean we're crazy. Then again your Catholic so of course you think anyone who does something bad must be a bad person. You have to understand why people do what they do. Once you see that you realize people can't really be held accountable for most of those things at that point really.

If they weren't crazy, then the world would be perfect.

I don't even know where to go with this. It's just so out there.

Why do people have pre- or extra-marital sex with people and then completely forget about them? It damages both people extremely, even if they both do not notice the damage being done. What other reason could you explain all the above situations?

Sexual frustration, confusion, anger, loneliness... There's tons of reasons why people have sex and just leave the person the next minute. You have to be in that situation to really get it.

You choose heaven or hell based on your actions, not whether you are Christian or not. If you are a muslim and believe that you should be able to kill any non-believers

OH YES! You're that kind of Christian! The hypocritical type that believes Muslims are evil killers! Oh I love you type of Christians. Well guess what? God commands you to kill non believers in Christianity too. The only difference here is that some radical Muslims have actually acted out what they hear. You Christians should start killing people in the name of the Lord like he says to do too. Nah, I forgot. You guys barely even care about most of The Bible these days because you pretend a fourth of it doesn't even exist.

simply because they don't believe the same creed that you do, that does not necessarily mean you will go to hell. If thats the only thing that you learned, and you never know different, then God will have mercy on you. All religions teach in one way or another that killing people mercilessly and without repentance is inherently wrong.

Well, that's the hypocrisy of religion. They say killing is wrong when the higher power kills people at the same time. Completely stupid.

Why does a father give a deal about relationships with his children? Because he loves them and cares for them. Sex is meant for procreation and love, and love comes from God and is God.

Well, God also created every other feeling in the world, not just love. He created anger, rage, hatred too.

Proper marriage is a holy union, with emphasis on the word holy. That is to say that man and woman can not really be perfectly joined without God.

Atheists can get married, therefor you're wrong. Also, like I said, God doesn't need any more extra loving because he's God.

"Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate."

– Matthew 19:4–6; also Mk 10:7–9

Ok? You still haven't proven a damn thing through out this entire post, like proof that Heaven exists, that Heaven really is as good as it says it is. All your posts are based on false speculation.


If they cannot control their actions, then God will have mercy on them.

Does God really have the time to not only answer prayers, but also decide who he does and doesn't have mercy on?

They are not accounted for their sin. But that does not mean that you or any other teenage boy are not accounted for out actions. Of course its hard not to fap! No philosophical or theological scholar ever said that self mastery was easy to attain. Self mastery and restraint is something every conscious and sentient human deals with for the rest of their lives. For those who cannot control their lust because of a physical or mental disorder, they are exempt because they can do nothing to stop themselves, and sometimes they do it against their own will. But those who can control themselves are not exempt.

WHY DOES IT FUCKING MATTER? Why does God get angry when you jerk off? It's just so stupid. There's no point TO ANY OF THIS AT ALL. It's pointless junk that makes no fucking sense at all.

Even though there is a tons of evidence to prove it's true doesn't mean it is right. Any member of the chain who is sentient and conscious has the ability to break the cycle, and their lack of breaking it is a minor sin. The major mortal sin is of the person who started the cycle. The idea is implanted in their heads, but they have the choice to ignore it.

No. Not everyone can ignore what is implanted into their minds. Some people's personalities let them bypass things, but not everyone is that strong. Also, don't talk like you get to decide who God exempts and lets in to Heaven like you know exactly how he talks and feels about people. For all you know he could give a damn less about will.


As I have said above, people who cannot control themselves because of a physical and/or mental disorder are exempt from condemnation based on that sin.

It doesn't say that anywhere in The Bible.


There are reasons why people commit sins, but the end does not justify the means.

Yes, it does. People look for evil without reason. There's always reason.

If you kill someone to try and save the world then what you are doing is intrinsically wrong, no matter how you look at it. Yet if there is no choice, and you must kill someone to save the whole world, then God will have mercy on you and exempt you from that sin. For other reasons, like you would have sex with someone simply because you get pleasure from it, they are not really good reasons. Why would you have sex with someone if not for the two reasons?

Like I said before, people have sex for tons of reasons that don't necessary have to be positive.

Scientifically it doesn't make any sense, as sex is meant for procreation. If you have sex with someone and then refuse to have children, then not only are you denying the philosophical and true love that sex is supposed to impart you are also denying the scientific and physical reason why you would have sex.

Pleasure. Why does God bothered by us creating pleasure as humans? Oh, I know. God only wants pleasure to come through him. It bothers him that we humans can do it ourselves. And you can apply that to any other thing out there. We don't need God anymore because we've done so much without him.

Then what reason do you have for having sex outside of marriage? The answer is none.

Fun, pleasure, excitement, boredom, depression, anger, frustration, I already went over this before. You really need to explore more ideas to why people do what they do.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

You are using the popular definition of eternity. Eternity is not timescale without beginning or end. Eternity is simply an existence outside of time i.e. something not affected by time. A timescale without beginning or end is sempiternity.

Eternity has no start, middle or finish simply because it is not influenced by time.

Yawn, you say popular definition I say the definition that is used as common place. It is one thing to argue against a wrong definition but to argue against the modern definition is really just a fun way of avoiding the real issue. Eternity IS Time without beginning or end; infinite time.


If that is the case, then why does Catholicism teach against fear of death? Death is not an end but rather a beginning, a start for a life in eternal happiness with God. If death is looked upon this way, then it is more like a birth than an end.

Why do you think people turn towards religion out of fear if not for the false sense of strength they will be given. If they hear people asserting a non fear policy of death they will fear more secure. People are too afraid of the unknown the nothingness that comes from death, if one gives them a counter argument in which they still live in a certain sense they will grasp it.

And of course a doctor saves the person. God is not a higher power that supposedly heals anyone miraculously when they are raped, hurt, or killed. God heals spiritually, as in he mends damaged or hurt souls. Miracles that heal physically are extensions of spiritual healing.

Placebo effect, 'nuff said.

It is never said that God causes the destruction and chaos, is it? The day of the lord basically means judgement day, when Heaven and Earth are said to be remade into a "New Heaven" and a "New Earth". For there to be a new heaven and new earth the old heaven and earth must not be present. Also, the destruction may or may not be physical, heaven and earth may be destroyed in a spiritual sense.

However destroying the world does seem a little destructive don't you think. I think I might burn down my house but if I rebuild it in a better way I am NOT being destructive.

God does not send people to hell! People choose hell, based on what they sought after and did willingly and without regret.

Apparently Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life will enter God's heavenly kingdom so what is he doing with the rest?

Yes, because all religions are a glimpse at the same God. Some religions have more truth, while others have less truth. For this reason, no religion is truly wrong, just

So your religion just happens to be the most correct one?

But being gay does not necessarily send you to hell. Having gay sex and lusting after another man and wishing to use him for pleasure can send you to hell. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."

I am not writing this again but learn to translate your scriptures please and if you are interested in seeing the proper translation you can look through my posts.

It also mentions that "Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."

Where does it say that.

That's the thing, no one is truly in their right mind. Why would people kill, torture, rape, and hurt people if they no that they are damaging not only the people they hurt but also themselves. Why does war exist? Why do some people tolerate genocide? Why do mass murderers kill unexpectedly? Because humans and humanity are crazy. If they weren't crazy, then the world would be perfect. Why do people have pre- or extra-marital sex with people and then completely forget about them? It damages both people extremely, even if they both do not notice the damage being done. What other reason could you explain all the above situations?

I must disagree sometimes they do it for power, sometimes they do not like the person and sometimes they find it funny. I must lean towards the humour side.

You choose heaven or hell based on your actions, not whether you are Christian or not. If you are a muslim and believe that you should be able to kill any non-believers simply because they don't believe the same creed that you do, that does not necessarily mean you will go to hell. If thats the only thing that you learned, and you never know different, then God will have mercy on you. All religions teach in one way or another that killing people mercilessly and without repentance is inherently wrong.

I do not really need to address this one.

Why does a father give a deal about relationships with his children? Because he loves them and cares for them. Sex is meant for procreation and love, and love comes from God and is God. Proper marriage is a holy union, with emphasis on the word holy. That is to say that man and woman can not really be perfectly joined without God. Christ even says in the Gospel of Matthew

"Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate."
– Matthew 19:4–6; also Mk 10:7–9

I find it funny how you can determine what sex is for in one sentence, I guess we as humans have no real differences then.

God is the creator of the sacred institution of marriage meaning that he and he himself has the only right to perfectly and completely join a man and a woman. Because of this, the 2 ends of marriage, and sex, are 1:For the good of the spouses and 2:For the procreation of children and the creation of a family. A marriage should have at least 1 of the 2 reasons. Sex has the same reasons as marriage, and without both reasons sex falls flat on its face. The Roman Catholic definition of lust is "venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse" The Church also teaches that lust is different from the natural desire for sexual love between a man and a woman.

Where and when did he create the sacrament of marriage.

If they cannot control their actions, then God will have mercy on them. they are not accounted for their sin. But that does not mean that you or any other teenage boy are not accounted for out actions. Of course its hard not to fap! No philosophical or theological scholar ever said that self mastery was easy to attain. Self mastery and restraint is something every conscious and sentient human deals with for the rest of their lives. For those who cannot control their lust because of a physical or mental disorder, they are exempt because they can do nothing to stop themselves, and sometimes they do it against their own will. But those who can control themselves are not exempt.

Fap Fap Fapping can be good for some people and bad for others just like any other body function. Fapping is a natural thing and if we are given bodies that we cannot touch in pleasurable ways then your God really did not think that one through.

Even though there is a tons of evidence to prove it's true doesn't mean it is right. Any member of the chain who is sentient and conscious has the ability to break the cycle, and their lack of breaking it is a minor sin. The major mortal sin is of the person who started the cycle. The idea is implanted in their heads, but they have the choice to ignore it.

I must laugh at how you say God forgives those who cannot control it, someone who is in that cycle knows no different. Question yourself, every aspect about yourself, doubt yourself to the very core and face insanity/suicidal depression, the mental conditions which they face every second of every day. Yet you call it a sin and the person who starts it may also have had a reason they could not help.

As I have said above, people who cannot control themselves because of a physical and/or mental disorder are exempt from condemnation based on that sin. There are reasons why people commit sins, but the end does not justify the means. If you kill someone to try and save the world then what you are doing is intrinsically wrong, no matter how you look at it. Yet if there is no choice, and you must kill someone to save the whole world, then God will have mercy on you and exempt you from that sin.

Reminds me of a politician this God so he does. I will listen to my laws when they suit me.

For other reasons, like you would have sex with someone simply because you get pleasure from it, they are not really good reasons. Why would you have sex with someone if not for the two reasons? Scientifically it doesn't make any sense, as sex is meant for procreation. If you have sex with someone and then refuse to have children, then not only are you denying the philosophical and true love that sex is supposed to impart you are also denying the scientific and physical reason why you would have sex. Then what reason do you have for having sex outside of marriage? The answer is none.

There is a six letter word in my head right now but it's slipping my mind. People have reasons for having sex and if you try to deny that it shows that you are close minded and obviously have not done your research.

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As for the original question "What do you think heaven is like?" I believe that heaven is an perfect existence with God in Eternity. It is eternal and never ending joy that no human can imagine completely. There will be a form of every and any earthly joy, be it chess, anime, or sex.

Sex outside of marriage I hope you mean.

[anonymous.john]

I would rather spend an eternity in hell than spend an eternity in heaven with a God that deserves no praise.

[bleedoutlove]

I don't know if I believe in God or not, or in Heaven or not, but this is what I would want Heaven to be like.

You can think up a universe and have it there; a place for your thoughts to be collaged. You can have any experience in an instance: freefalling from a thousand feet and landing upright unharmed, getting up and flying away, hell even your High School prom.
I'd like to believe you could be sent down to Earth again, to live out a certain part of your life differently: for example, if you love someone you never think could love you back, you can experience how your life would be if they did love you. :wub:

[Opeaceman]

When I think of heaven I think of my own since of paradise. Not the religious term.
Any way mien could be reality-if only If I couldn’t make mistakes.

But on the extreme level, I would like to be in a world that is nothing but water, no mantle core or any of that. And I could breathe under water. It is also PEACEFUL.

[Continuum]

I am intimidated by walls of text, but here's my opinion anyway.

Heaven and hell is whatever the individual mind conceives. Nothing more. And it will be always split into two distinct mental states of pain and pleasure, and no matter what it will always depend on the individual's perception on the two. That is why the Christian versions of heaven and hell do not always appeal to all people. Make your own paradise, mine is simply outer space. And an eternity of paradise won't be as fun as it should be, as Deadpie says. It won't matter much.